Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Banner promoting anonymous crime reporting with a phone and contact number 1 800 TIPS (8477), featuring the Crime Stoppers logo and a QR code for submitting tips.

The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

brotherskeptapartFellow blogger Weighed in the Balance has undertaken the ambitious and highly risky task of writing a book which as he terms it “is a comparative analysis of the Bible and the Qur’an, and it assumes that both books are correct.  If God is the principal author of each book, as Christians and Muslims claim, then a comparative analysis should reveal harmony between the principal teachings of both.  This is what I have found.  Hence, Christians and Muslims have been kept apart by their religious leaders who have taught their adherents that God has rejected the other group.” The topic matter was thought to be so contentious that he originally penned his book using a pseudonym.

Phillip’s book is titled Brothers Kept Apart and can be purchased on Amazon.com at a reasonable price. Some members of the BU family have already demonstrated that they are students of the religions. Brother Phillips advises that the book represents 30 years of research and 7 years of critical review and he stands ready to defend his thesis.

It is no secret that the BU household has demonstrated a keen interest in the religions or what some people disparagingly refer to as dogmas. It is a fascinating subject and one which is shrouded in mystery, allegories, parables, fables and some theology  Religion has been used through the ages to edify and destroy man’s existence. Of interest to all through the ages has been the cooption of  religion to pit Islam versus Christianity, East versus West by geo-political motivated groups.

For a synopsis of the book the BU family is welcomed to visit Phillips’s blog. We look forward to a fascinating discussion and take the opportunity to wish him every success.

What he has attempted demonstrates courage of conviction, a characteristic in scarce supply.

.

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

1,124 responses to “The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart”

  1. Nietzche Avatar
    Nietzche

    David

    I wrote earlier about the apostrophe ‘s’ in the title, to wit; Brother’s (??!!) kept apart. This is grammatically wrong.

    Very interesting debate between Rohan, Not saved and MME. I wish to point out that there is much evidence that it can be unproductive and harmful (to the point of being genocidal) where two or more groups of people who believe in different supernatural beings happen to reside in close proximity to each other. So the implied question remains as to how can a society be organised so that its citizens may pursue their personal beliefs without disadvantage or nuisance to their neighbours? In other words, that a debate/book about harmony or disharmony between Christianity and Islam (or any other religion of choice) is of academic interest only.

    I have already suggested the model I prefer: i.e by promoting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, promoting rational thinking vis-a-vis the scientific method in schools and removing religious instruction from public schooling and promoting a secular republican form of governance.

    Thanks Nietche!

    David

  2. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi Everyone:

    Some of you really know how to contaminate a thread. Could you not have asked David to start a thread on “Is God Real?” or “Evidence for the Existence of God?” which comprise about 70% of the posts. To respond to the on-topic questions/comments.

    Hi MME:

    I agree that Mohammed was including Jesus in his rejection of God having any offspring. However, the evidence suggests that he was not referring to Son of God concept in the Bible, but rather the sexual reproduction. Note Qur’an 6:101 “How can He have a son when He hath no consort?”

    Regarding the issue of Jesus’ deity, there is harmony between the Bible and the Qur’an on that issue as well.

    Regarding Mark Siljander’s work, he attempts to find harmony be re-translating the Bible and the Qur’an. I did no such thing. I assumed that the current translations are correct, and then found harmony.

    Hi Zoe:

    I have already explained that Christian and Islamic religious traditions are incompatible.

    Hi Not Saved:

    Apostasy requires some explanation. It depends on what you are turning to. If you are referring to leaving Islam bracing a similar belief system, like Christianity, then since there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, then there should be no consequences.

    Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jews, and the Sabians and the Christians,-any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,-on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (5: 69)

    Regards,
    Grenville

  3. victor Avatar
    victor

    Yes I admit it! I is Iost!

  4. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Grenville,

    I dont agree we have contaminated the thread.

    If the question is look to harmony, I still think questioning the veracity of the claims is fair game. False claims in harmony are still false.

    It is frankly amusing to me that you find harmony in the treatment of jesus in the (KJV?) bible and the qur’an.

    Apart from the usual objections you will find from christians (and muslims), you should have a look at early christianity (say first 300 years of it) and you will see that WITHIN christianity itself the deity of jesus was a far from harmonious conjecture.

    More to the point, the canon of your bible today was selected (over a very long period of time) to present a particular theological view amongst many views and the bible you know has also been changed by scribes over the years to be more consistent with the view that became dominant.

    Thousands of christians over hundreds of years lived and died with a completely different view of the deity of jesus than christians of today.

    Many theological doctrines of christianity today were developed long after the death of jesus and were not taught by jesus himself.

    If you find harmony in the treatment of jesus in today’s bible and the qur’an, frankly, so what? todays bible is one many different perspectives held by christians in the apostolic era and immediately beyond until the dominance of the roman church.

  5. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Grenville,

    You wrote :

    “since there is harmony between the principal teachings of the Bible and the Qur’an, then there should be no consequences.”

    …………….

    Indeed !

    But are they?

  6. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Not Saved

    I don’t see why you bothering about Grenville talking about different threads and sticking to topic. That is what they do when they want to steer the discussion their way. They move the goal post.

    I don’t know why he thinks there must be four or five threads to the same conversation? Maybe he can’t keep track, but I would like to let him know that we not in school and this can’t be a linear conversation.

  7. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Nietzche,

    We should teach ABOUT religion in schools.

    religion has had a overwhelming impact on our society and culture, good and bad.

    it needs to be understood.

  8. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Not Saved

    “More to the point, the canon of your bible today was selected (over a very long period of time) to present a particular theological view amongst many views and the bible you know has also been changed by scribes over the years to be more consistent with the view that became dominant.”

    It still happening today. Check Zoe and see that he coming with a new twist to justify this warped story.

  9. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    “evidence suggests that he was not referring to Son of God concept in the Bible”
    ————–

    Grenville,

    I agree that Sura 6:101 is not referring to the Bible Son of God concept, but in these verses it is clear that he is referring to the ‘Christian’ Son of God concept: Sura 5:17, 5:72, 5:73, 5:75 and 9:30… in fact, in Sura 9:30 he explicitly states this.

    This does not mean that your thesis is wrong, but for it to hold at least one of the following must be true:

    1. Mohammed misunderstood the Bible Son of God concept, or

    2. He believed the Christians of his time misunderstood the Bible Son of God concept.

  10. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @Grenville……Behind the conflict of these two traditions as well as all the other major conflicts and squirmishes in the world today is an unseen hand and this hand also uses the dogma of reLIEgion. This reliegious dogma tends to give some degree of security and the illusion of power as well as the ability to maintain that power. It employs the tools of fear and guilt to divide, conquer and control. As I mentioned before all these religions came out of Kemet in one form or another but the problem we have for more than 2k yrs (with christianity) has been the literal interpretation of Ancient Egyptian mythology into a bible. This bible is allegorical in nature and has been made to run on all 4s for simple people to ride. An example of this allegory is the transliteration of the Adam, Eve and the Serpent story. Adam’s nakedness really denotes the purity of the inner man and its state of innocence while the serpent on its belly represents the grovelling of the sensual self seeking after corporeal things. And poor Eve has been paying a heavy
    price by having to remain silent in church while being subjugated to her husband. What these two groups should do is remove the cause/s of this obstruction which has wrought nothing but horrible ignorance and not helplessly look forward to their being burnt out of the human soul by that eternal hell fire because the fire of hell is now about burnt out.

    In about 5 days many people world wide will be celebrating May 1st as int’l workers day, when in actuality they are celebrating the birth of the modern-day day illuminati which was founded in Bavaria on May 1st 1776 by Adam Weishapt. Just another illusion. Today it is this same swine-infested illuminati sitting at their round table still controlling these major reliegions, the financial markets, destabilising nations & economies, spreading diseases like the swine-flu that’s getting to ravish Mexico now, implementing terrorism and on and on and on. These beings have convinced most of us in more ways than one thru all of their “cloaked institutions” to surrender our power to their control. They thrive on our ignorance and chaos. So this difference between Islam and Christianity is also manufactured.

    @Victor……”I’m not sure I wouId caII Ancient Egypt “bIack”. This is the same thing that the Europeans were saying when they saw with their own eyes the height of “civilization” that these people had achieved. The “jews” once taught their children that when they were held captive in Egypt that they were the once who built the pyramids. But they could NOT prove it. These damned liars were soon found out and dismissed so they had to put that lie to rest. The word Kmt means the land of the Blacks.

    This is what one white man Count Volney said after his trip to Kemet.

    “Just to think that a race of Black men, today our slave and object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, sciences and even our speech! Just imagine that it is in the midst of people who call themselves the greatest friends of liberty and humanity that one has approved the most barbarous slavery and questioned whether black men have the same kind of intellect as white!”

    So Victor maybe you should do a little research before you assume.

  11. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    victor surely you mean L is lost

  12. Nietzsche? Avatar
    Nietzsche?

    Teaching about religions and philosophies in general is one thing, religious instruction along with prayer, singing of hymns and Bible readings is another. The Barbados education act makes it mandatory that religious instruction be done in schools.

    No Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Jehovah Witness etc would be appointed a principal of a public (Gov’t) school in Barbados. They would have to hide their religious beliefs or agree to only promote Christian i.e Protestant beliefs.

    I fear one of the mistakes of the past Gov’t was allowing the Closed Bretheren and the Muslims to establish schools.

  13. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi MME:

    I believe that option 2 is true.

    There are over 20,000 pages of early Church documents which describe the development of Christian religious tradition from Jesus to Mohammed. The documents are summarised and referenced in the Book. Mohammed was responding to a specific tradition.

    To ensure that he was not misunderstood (at the time), Mohammed referred his hearers to the Gospel.

    Regards.

  14. Nietzsche? Avatar
    Nietzsche?

    Not Saved

    How long will the teacher who tells children about the “bad” things associated with religion last? Some years ago a resource book on the teaching of human values was prepared for Barbadian schools. The book was rejected by the ministry of education solely because the authors did not come from a Christian group. The book was heavily criticized because it had the temerity to suggest that human values such as honesty, patriotism, care for fellow citizens etc were not exclusively christian traits.

    The best thing is for religion to be left out altogether from the curriculum. Let Parents send the children to the religious centre of their choice after school.

  15. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Atheism, is philosophically and logically untenable, that is why a number of atheist have come down a peg, and now say, ‘I’m an agnostic’ realizing the absurdity of Atheism.

    Even though it is not possible to prove God’s existence by rigorous scientific demonstration, it is even more impossible (if there were such a category) to prove His nonexistence! One cannot prove a ‘universal negative.” To prove that there is no God anywhere in the universe or at any time in the universe, would require Omniscience and Omnipresence as well, which are themselves attributes of deity. That is, one would have to be God, in order to prove there is no God. Therefore, dogmatic atheism, is self-contradictory foolishness!

    Christian Founders of Key Scientific Disciplines.

    Isaac Newton, founder of Dynamics; Johann Kelper, founder of Astronomy; Robert Boyle, founder of Chemistry; Lord Kelvin, founder of Thermo-Dynamics; Louis Pasteur, founder of Bacteriology; Matthew Maury, founder of Ocean Ography; Michael Faraday, founder of Electro-Magnetics; Clerk Maxwell, founder of Electro Dynamics; John Ray, founder of Biology; and Carolus linnaeus, founder of Taxonomy.

    The humanistic claim that scientists cannot believe the Bible, is refuted by the fact that many of the great scientists of the past were Bible-believing creationist Christians.

    The once revered definition of science or by anyone else until recently, was a follows:

    ‘Science,’ n. (Fr. from L. scientio, from scio, to know). 1. In a general sense, knowledge, or certain knowledge; the comprehension or understanding of ‘truth’ or facts by the mind. The science of God must be perfect. Thus, science, as orginally defined and intended, meant “truth” or “facts” or “knowledge.” The essence of the time-hallowed scientific method has heretofore been claimed to be observation, falsifiability, repeatability. But, modern evolutionists have prostituted it to mean, “naturalism” or “materalism” or even, in effect, “atheism.” Such a definition, of course, is a convenient dodge to get away from having to consider creationism. (The Biblical Basis for Modern Science).

  16. victor Avatar
    victor

    Not Saved, yes, I wouId say that but I dont have one of them!

  17. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Grenville,

    “I believe that option 2 is true.”
    ————–

    … then your theory is entirely plausible.

  18. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    atheism is disbelief in theistic gods, it is far from absurd.

  19. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe,

    if atheism was absurd, you are absurd because you dont believe in any of theistic gods I dont believe in, bar one.

  20. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Grenville,

    How do you support your contention that christians did not understand the “bible son of god” concept.

    what was their understanding?

  21. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Zoe
    “To prove that there is no God anywhere in the universe or at any time in the universe, would require Omniscience and Omnipresence as well, which are themselves attributes of deity.”

    You actually believe that god is omniscient and omnipresent? You should be the last to talk about logic.

    How can you believe that god has these attributes and want to turn HIM into flesh and blood?

    Tell me truly. Think about it. How could omniscience and omnipresence be achieved?

  22. confused Avatar
    confused

    Nietzsche?
    I fear one of the mistakes of the past Gov’t was allowing the Closed Bretheren and the Muslims to establish schools.

    What wrongs have the Closed Bretheren done to Bajans?

    Where are/were the Closed Bretheren schools in Barbados?
    Do you know that what you call the Closed Bretheren are really the dying very exclusive wing of the Plymouth brethren, and one of three Plymouth brethren groups in Barbados.

    Do you know that one of the recent principals of HC was/a member of one of the leading Plymouth brethren churches in Barbados; i.e Dayrell’s Rd Gospel Hall?

    Do you anything at all about the teachings of the Closed Bretheren?

  23. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    Rok,
    I know, a Xtian talking about logic and then invoking omniscience, omnipresence, and a touch omnipotence.

    If you believe in this stuff, after thinking it through, then you deserved to be laughed at. I’m sorry!

  24. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    Zoe,
    You worship a god that is fanatical about

    Not eating shrimp, not touching pig skins, not working on sundays, and not wearing multi-blend fabrics.

    But is A-Okay with
    selling your daughter into slavery, beating your slaves with a rod even if they die, raping women captured in war, and murdering babies.

    You happily follow this crazy creature and worship him as your god then have the nerve to even utter the word “logic”?

    The fact that you’re so comfortable with this god says more about you than anything else.

  25. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    confused,

    are you saying it is ok for the closed bretheren to have their own schools?

    is it ok for the muslims as well?

  26. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    More logic:

    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
    ***
    Yup, makes perfect sense…

  27. Nietzsche? Avatar
    Nietzsche?

    Concerned
    I know very little about the Closed Brethren (or about Muslims for that matter). I have no particular ill feeling towards either group. My concern is with the fracturing of the society along religious/ethnic lines. When I went to school many years ago members of both groups sat beside me and others in class. We played the same games and got up to the same mischief that young boys would be expected to do. Why do the children from these groups now need to be separated from the rest? Once the state has extended the privilege of separation to one group then I fear that others will follow. I am told that there is an increase in requests by evangelical Christians for home schooling.

    I am not sure you are accurate about a recent HC principal being a Closed Brethren. There are two different groups in Barbados. The Closed Brethren and the Open Brethren. It would be most surprising if a member of the former group worked in a non Closed Brethren institution.

  28. Nietzsche? Avatar
    Nietzsche?

    Confused

    My error. On re-reading your post, I note that you did not say the principal was a member of the Closed Brethren branch but a member of the Plymouth Brethren group with which the Closed Brethren (according to you) is associated.

  29. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Dr Robert Belgrave was a member of the gospel hall that was referred to by confused.

    Is that closed bretheren?

  30. confused Avatar
    confused

    There are 13 Gospel Halls in Barbados; these are not Closed Brethren, but they are Plymouth Brethren.These are one of the two groups of Open Brethren in Barbados.This group has meetings at Ellerton, St George; Kirtons, St Philip, Fitz Village, Crumpton St, Speighstown, Fairfield Rd, Airy Hill St Joseph, Melvins Hill St Joseph, St Elizabeth Village, Belleplaine, Dayrells Rd, Stream, St Lawrence & Cherry Grove, St John

    Another One Open Brethren group has assemblies at Welches Ch Ch, Whitehall St Michael, in the City, in St Thomas at Chapmans etc

    This is all well documented in a book called 100 Years of the Brethren in Barbados. Though focussing most on the Gospel Halls, it discusses the origins of the three Brethren groups- all coming from the followers of John Darby.

    The closed or exclusive brethren have almost completely died out. There used to be assemblies in Oistins and Rendezvous Rd for example in the 60’s which have disappeared.

  31. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Grenville, to suggest, as you are doing that ‘Regarding the issue of Jesus’ deity, there is harmony between the Bible and the Quran on that issue as well.”

    The idea of ‘harmony’ carries with it, ‘accord, conformity, compatibility, congruity, oneness, togetherness, unity, meeting of minds.

    Logically, this is tantamount to ‘logical equivalence’ when in truth and fact, these two systems are in diametric opposition as to Who Jesus Christ is.

    To split hairs over whether,

    1. ‘Mohammed misunderstood the Bible Son of God concept’, or 2. ‘He believed the Christians if his time misunderstood the Son of God concept’ is, irrelevant, not applicable or pertinent, as in the final analysis, Islam
    vehemently and dogmatically DENY the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Only Son of God, as the Only Saviour of all mankind, there is no way around this, it is either/or, it cannot be both/and, which you are attempting to do.

    Muhammed was a false prophet, plain and simple, and no matter how much you want to split/hairs in extracting from certain surah in the Quran, implying this or that, the bottom line is
    this:

    “Beloved, DO NOT believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world. By this you KNOW the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ HAS COME in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that DOES NOT confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (Incarnation) IS NOT OF GOD. And this is the spirit of the ANTICHRIST, which you have heard was coming, and IS now already in the world. We are of God. He who KNOWS God hears us; he who is NOT of God does NOT hear us. By this we KNOW the spirit of TRUTH, and the spirit of ERROR.” (I John 4;1,2,3, 5,6) emphasis added.

    The crux of the test is a spirit’s acknowledgement or rejection of Jesus Christ as the ‘incarnate’ Son of God. A confession of Jesus involves more than an admission of His identity (see Matt. 8:28, 29; Mark. 1:24; 3:11). It is a profession of faith in Him and submission to His sovereignty. The Holy Spirit testifies to and glorifies Jesus (see John 15:26; 16:14; I Cor. 12:3). Therefore, a confession proclaiming the truth that Jesus IS the incarnate Christ IS OF GOD testifies to both His full humanity as our Saviour-Redeemer, and His full Deity as Lord and Sovereign King.

    On the other hand, a denial of the truth concerning Jesus, reveals that any claim of ‘divine inspiration’ is FALSE and that the true origin IS the spirit of the Antichrist.

    Therefore, Genville, your premise, that, “I have found that there is harmony. Hence, they (the Bible and Quran) can either both be RIGHT or both WRONG.” Is a non sequitur, it simply is not Scriptural or logical!

  32. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    Zoe… My Son…

    Why do you become so emotional when others disagree with you?

    Why do you presume to know that you (and only you (and yours)) are Right?

    What is your proof? Beyond your (untestable) Believes?

    Are Beliefs not, by definition, untestable. And, thus, unprovable?

    And thus, that your Believes are no better than anyone eases?

    Have we not taught you to be better than this?

    Did Christ die in vain?

  33. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Zoe

    “Muhammed was a false prophet..”

    All prophets are false, so don’t get smug. You keep calling the kettle black, but you is the pot.

  34. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Grenville,

    The deity of jesus is an important part of christian doctrine. It is more that “christian tradition”.

    Based on your posts with MME, I believe a little more clarity is warranted.

    What is the christian position on deity of jesus as set out in the christian bible?

    Is your answer your view? or widely accepted christian doctrine?

    What is the position of the qur’an on the deity of jesus ?

    Is your answer your view or widely held islamic doctrine?

    Exactly how (your answers) can they be reconciled?

    Are these theological positions widely held among christians and muslims?

    Why does “god” leave such basic elements of doctrine open to “misinterpretation” (your word not mine)

    Why has “god” seemingly ignored the tragic consequences of “misinterpretation”? Is “he” a capricious god?

  35. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi Not saved:

    As explained, I have detailed the development of Christian religious tradition from the time of Jesus to Mohammed. There were several competing ideas by the time of Mohammed; however, the relevant ideas for this discussion are the ones that Mohammed would have likely been exposed to. They include the views promoted by the Roman and the Assyrian Churches, which differed in their understanding of the concept ‘Son of God’.

    Regards,
    Grenville

  36. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi Zoe:

    You stated “Islam vehemently and dogmatically …”. I have already explained that Islamic religious tradition is completely incompatible with Christian religious tradition. If Islam were to restrict their teachings to what is supported by the Qur’an and Christianity were to restrict their teachings to what is supported by the Bible, then there would be harmony between Christianity and Islam.

    Perhaps you need to review the evidence provided in ‘Brothers Kept Apart’ and then identify the evidence which you would have interpreted differently. The book is available from Pages.

    Regards,
    Grenville

  37. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    There were several competing ideas before it was even settled by the roman church.

    You have still not answered my question.

    What are the views today?

    Are they in harmony?

    If the holy books are divinely inspired why after nearly 700 hundred years of christianity are there “competing ideas”?

    Does that not sound more like a very human book?

  38. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Grenville,

    You wrote:

    “……Christianity were to restrict their teachings to what is supported by the Bible………”

    what are the teachings of christianity not supported by the bible?

    any examples?

  39. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    Grenville wrote:
    If Islam were to restrict their teachings to what is supported by the Qur’an and Christianity were to restrict their teachings to what is supported by the Bible, then there would be harmony between Christianity and Islam.
    ****
    Grenville, If Christians were to restrict their teachings to what is in the bible, America would be killing all the men in Iraq and capturing and keeping the women for themselves. Just like your loving christian God tells you to do.

  40. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    In the Old Testament Moses encourages his men to use captured virgins for their own sexual pleasure, i.e. to rape them. After urging his men to kill the male captives and female captive who are not virgins he says:

    “But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves” (Numbers 31: 18).
    ***
    So Christians, is this the God you follow or not?

  41. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Grenville

    I see that you are here promoting your book by trying to get people to read it. How many times have you written in this thread asking contributors to read the book.

    From the outset, let me say that I would hardly read this book and you see from my position that for me it makes absolutely no sense reading the book. Thirty years ago I may have read it, but having found that all religion is false, the details make little difference.

    However, your book may have some merit only from the point of view that religion is a system of creating division among people; at least the Christians, Muslims and all the other religions which are based on these scriptures in particular.

    One of my observations about these religions in particular is their focus on wealth. Indeed, even the main characters in the Bible were men of means or of talent. Moses for example came up in the Pharaoh’s court and supposedly had experience leading battles. Abraham was a man from a wealthy family.

    Now while the church professes that it is for the poor, you are expected to make a donation every time you go to church; nothing to do with the tithes they collect. If you ever went to St. Joseph Parish Church to a funeral, you would have heard the Rev. Errington Massiah say from the pulpit, nothing less than a $5 bill.

    Now, what you are coming here with, seems to be in concert with the mindset that one must pay. Of course, it is my opinion that you come to this blog under the pretense of generating discussion, but really you are here for one reason alone and that is to sell your book.

    Personally, I believe that you observed the heightened interest in religion on this blog and somehow you were able to convince David that you could generate discussion with a contribution.

    So your whole ploy is to generate discussion based on your book, but in order for there to be meaningful discussion, one would have to read the book. I submit to you that is the sole purpose of you being here. That is why you telling people they are off topic so they would run and read your book.

    Now I have no problem with you selling books, I have a problem when those here have come to share and learn, but you come for profit.

    When I think about it, it is all about exploitation of people, by manipulating their fears and beliefs, rather than confronting them with the truth about religion. As far as I am concerned, you are playing people along because I believe that with such insight and research, you know better.

    For those who have eyes to see, let them see; and ears to hear let them hear. Religion is the downfall of man. It keeps mankind belligerent and this world full of wickedness.

    It is the cause of lingering ignorance and folly which mankind can’t get the rid of, because the proponents of religion keep feeding people who would ordinarily be intelligent, with a fundamentalist view, that has no place in modern society.

    The stigma and discrimination generated by religion fuels crime and violence. Pit men against their brothers, parents against their children and friends against friends.

    There is nothing about studying religion (bible or Koran) that brings light and genuine knowledge to the people. It makes man less spiritual and less able to keep the peace, because we walking around defending what we know nothing about and what is not relevant to our lives. It simply keeps people ignorant.

  42. rohan Avatar
    rohan

    ROK,
    *Applause*

  43. David Avatar
    David

    To be fair to Brother Grenville he has posted on BU before.

  44. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    David,

    I would be the first to admit that he posted and I expect that he posted before. That is not a contention because I posited that he observed the interest in religion on this blog and sought to exploit it.

  45. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Grenville, what is the core teaching (doctrine) of the Quran? What is the core doctrine of the Bible?

    Can you kindly explain what exactly it is that you mean by, “Christian religious tradition.”

    Thanks!

    Halsall, Sir, The Duppy already say to YOU, BOO!! BOO!! BOO!!

  46. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Zoe

    You are a child or what? You mocking somebody and don’t expect to get mocked back at? It will hurt you more than who mock you ’cause who will mock you don’t care about your god. You will feel it in your sleep. You really don’t know what you playing with fella.

  47. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi Not Saved:

    My responses to your queries follow.

    Q1. What is the christian position on deity of jesus as set out in the christian bible?

    A1. The current Christian doctrinal position is that Jesus is part of the Godhead.

    Q2. Is your answer your view? or widely accepted christian doctrine?

    A2. This is the widely accepted doctrine.

    Q3. What is the position of the qur’an on the deity of jesus?

    A3. The Qur’an does not respond to the Biblical concept of Jesus being the Son of God, but rather the developed Christian tradition that he was exposed to at the time. The Qur’an instructs both Muslims and Christians to believe the Biblical concept.

    Q4. Is your answer your view or widely held islamic doctrine?

    A4. This is the Quranic view. It is not taught within Islam.

    Q5. Exactly how (your answers) can they be reconciled?

    A5. They can be reconciled if Christians follow the explicit teachings of the Bible and if Muslims follow the explicit teachings of the Qur’an.

    Q6. Are these theological positions widely held among christians and muslims?

    A6. Yes. The position that religious tradition should be supported by the principal religious text is generally accepted. Hence, it is a starting point for discussions of this nature.

    Q7. Why does “god” leave such basic elements of doctrine open to “misinterpretation” (your word not mine) Why has “god” seemingly ignored the tragic consequences of “misinterpretation”? Is “he” a capricious god?

    A7. God has done everything to make it as easy as possible for His creation to be reconciled to Him. However, as you are well aware, some people simply choose to reject Him regardless of what He does. You can read the Article ‘The Audacity of Hope’ for further information on why the Qur’an is so easy to misinterpret.

    Regarding teachings not supported by the Bible, well there are several. One being the Baptism of infants.

    Regards,
    Grenville

  48. Grenville Avatar
    Grenville

    Hi Rohan:

    You simply do not understand the Bible. If you had read it even once in its entirety, then you would know that you have gravely misunderstood it. Let me suggest that you read it before making such a misleading post.

    Hi ROK:

    The book should be available at the library. Therefore, there is no need to purchase it. Your accusations are completely false.

    Hi Zoe:

    The core teaching of the Bible is that a personal relationship with God is possible, and that our basic responsibilities are to cultivate this relationship with our Creator and to treat each other as we want to be treated. The core message of the Qur’an is identical.

    The Bible provides details about the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah, Jesus, since our good deeds can never atone for our wrongs. Therefore, forgiveness is by God’s grace. The Qur’an describes forgiveness in a similar fashion, identifying Jesus as the Messiah and referring the reader to the Gospel for the details.

    Regards,
    Grenville

  49. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Grenville

    I am glad to hear that. You carry on smartly.

  50. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    A3

    If the qur’an only responded to the christian tradition that mohammed was exposed to, then how can you say it was divinely inspired?

    Please clarify what “tradition” was mohammed exposed to?

    You may claim the qur’an directed followers to read the gospels, but which ones? there was no official canon at the time and there are more theological writings in existence in his time than the 27 books on the NT canon

    A4

    I wish I had a $ for every believer who claimed another believer had it wrong.

    A5

    ditto

    You take exception at people dismissing your research (justifiably in some cases) but look at how you denigrate your fellow christians and not to mention a few mullahs !

    A6

    Nice dodge

    Sorry muslims dont accept the view to which I referred (and not the one to which you chose to answer)

    A7

    Amusing to see you turn a question on why god makes it hard for his diligent believers to “interpret” his word to berating non believers for “rejecting him”

    Leave non believers out of this question.

    Tell me why the most faithful by your own admission get it so wrong.

    I am well aware the qur’an is easy to misinterpret, you seem to have forgotten it is YOU who says it was written by a god !!!

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading