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The PEOPLE Call For National Health Policy Impact Study On The Delivery Of Vaccinations In Barbados

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Last week the BU family engaged in a spirited discussion on the blog post  titled Beware Of Cervical Cancer Vaccine Gardasil! The discussion tossed up an interesting issue that the preponderance of vaccines  being administered to our children maybe the cause of many maladies which appear to be infesting our communities. One example which ROK a BU family member opined was to reference that the high levels of mercury in vaccines maybe directly responsible for an alarming rise in Asthma, Autism and other sicknesses.

Although Barbados has enjoyed an acceptably high level of healthcare over the years, there has been growing concern in some quarters in recent times about our healthcare system. Should we have to say that the concern transcends political lines? Barbadians have been more than alarm at visible levels of mismanagement within our healthcare system at the QEH, polyclinics, medical associations and even the drug sector…

We want to thank Roosevelt O. King (ROK) for consenting to do the grunt work on the suggestion by the BU letter, family to lobby stakeholder health organizations on this matter. The objective is to encourage them via a to use their offices to agitate for quantitative and qualitative work to be done to ascertain the effect vaccinations being delivered to our children today are having on their health now and later on in life.

The importance of the output of this study is two fold:

  1. The health of our young people is linked to the health of our nation which has significant implication for national productivity.
  2. The financial costs to our small economy to support our current healthcare system is already high. To experience an increase in the level of ailments would place our treasury under enormous pressure.

BU family members are asked to review the letter which was drafted by Roosevelt King, who is affiliated to the Non-Govermental Organization BANGO. All suggestions will be considered to ensure that the concerns of BU family members are fairly reflected in the document. If some family members feel uncomfortable submitting their views in the comments section you have the choice of anonymously doing so via the Feedback Page or Email.

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149 responses to “The PEOPLE Call For National Health Policy Impact Study On The Delivery Of Vaccinations In Barbados”

  1. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @J,

    Tell me about the UK lawyers too. They got compensation out there too… but I don’t know what you have against American Lawyers and to tell the truth they have done a lot to widen human and personal rights.

    They have done better than us because you can find an independent lawyer in US ready to take your case without selling you out. Down here we collude to pervert justice and maintain a status quo… so I don’t know what you saying???

    I want you to address Kay’s point because she is making good sense. Why have this vaccination during a period when you don’t need it and then when you really need it, it is no longer compulsory?

    Furthermore, all that you talk about ordering a civil society, it don’t get in your bedroom except for rape (which is an unlawful because it is against the will of the person being invaded) and it don’t invade your person to alter your body or kill its defences, but for the health of the nation. This too is for the health of the nation, especially if what Kay said is true.

  2. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @David,

    Called Justin three times today. Got the right number the final time. Hopefully by tomorrow i would speak to him.

  3. J Avatar
    J

    I’ll let Georgie Porgie and the other medical people onn this blog answer the questions about how long immunity lasts for each vaccination. I am not at all sure that Kay is right when she implies that none of them provide life long immunity.

  4. J Avatar
    J

    And besides if a boster is needed sensible parents will ensure that their children’s medical needs are looked after up to age 18; and after 18 a young person whose health has been well looked after will start to take responsibility for his own health care.

  5. J Avatar
    J

    I have nothing against American lawyers. However I believe that many American doctors have some serious reservations about some American lawyers.

  6. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Kay,

    Are you saying that for all vaccinations there is a short immunisation span? The other question is, if you get a booster, how much longer does that last?

  7. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @J

    What would you have about those who can take you out if you make a professional mistake?

  8. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Kay,

    If you stop vaccinating children against rubella the disease will be widespread.

    The very adults which YOU point out are no longer immunised will get rubella from the children.

    It is BECAUSE of vaccines that rubella is practically eradicated and adults without immunity need not fear.

    You have completely misuderstood the policy.

    They will then be many many children born with defects who right now are born fine. The consequences to stop rubella vaccination are dire.

    This is what happened in the past.

    Learn from it.

    Well done J for fighting the good fight.

    People today can rubbish vaccines because they have NO IDEA what it is was like before.

    Read about TB in the UK in the 19th century before coming here with pure nonsense.

  9. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    that should be TB in the 19th century

  10. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Scientist
    The UK, European Countries, USA do not do mass BCG innoculations because it is not effective. If you do not believe me you can easily find the information on their sites on the net. When it is given a patch test is done first, this is not done here.
    About 10 years ago my childrens doctor told me to get them revaccinated for MMR around the age of 15 because they were realising that the immunity was wearing off around that age.
    If children are immunised and adults are not the disease will still spread among the adults, and pregnant women in the first trimestre are the most vulnerable to Rubella aka german measles.
    Tetnus boosters should be done every 5 years, especially in the farming community and the construction industry.

  11. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Kay,

    Your claims do not accord with the facts. See the following table for the DRAMATIC reduction in rubella since the vaccine was introduced.

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00035381.htm#00000470.gif

    To stop immunising children for rubella (and to immunize adults when they ‘plan’ to get pregnant) must truly be the silliest suggestion that I have ever read on any blog .

    If you stop immunising children for rubella the disease will return and you will have children being born with defects.

  12. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Scientist

    Why would it return? Is this something that exists in the body or it has to be contracted?

  13. J Avatar
    J

    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Immunizations page:

    http://www.cdc.gov/az/i.html

  14. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    not sure what I looking for here. Don’t see any reference to sources of the disease.

  15. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @J,

    This CDC site ain’t saying much at all. Had to wonder if it is an advertising or promotion site for CDC. This is a private sector thing?

  16. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    @ROK

    why would it return?

    because it has not been eradicated world wide.

    A young child has a young immune and would be vulnerable.

    In contrast to some of the nonsense posted above, a vaccine STRENGTHENS an immune system not weakens it.

  17. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    This is what happens when kids are not immunised

    http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjPDvv-qkDYO6iVSWH_Rx9RsfuVg

  18. J Avatar
    J

    The Centers for Disease Control is an agency of the U.S. government’s Department of Health. CDC does research and public education and also monitors and tracks diseases.

    The site is quite deep with hundreds or maybe thousands of links. It is constantly being updated so you can check back many times.

  19. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Your call for research is interesting. You present the conclusion before the research is started.

    I quote from your “letter” :

    “Given the evidence which is supporting the view that excessive vaccinations may be
    defeating the purpose of vaccinating populations, the record shows an increase in
    Barbados in the incidences of these vaccine related diseases.”

  20. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    J,

    when the conspiracist sees evidence against their position they just dismiss it as all part of the conspiricacy, The CDC must be part of the fraud right, together with the FDA and health bodies worldwide.

    Any data you or I provide, just all part of the conspiracy.

    No doubt ROK already thinks I am some insider in the whole conspiracy, working for a drug company or such.

    To them, you and I just idiots who have fallen for it.

  21. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Another example when people are misled by stupidity.

    http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=1229

    KIDS DIE

  22. J Avatar
    J

    Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report Ferbuary 29th, 2008 states that

    “in the pre-vaccine days there were 3 to 4 million cases of measles in the United States EVERY YEAR. 450 deaths, 28,000 hospitalizations and 1,000 permanent disablities.” Understand that even a country as wealthy as the U.S. would be challenged by that disease burden.

    and futher that

    “vaccine coverage of 90% or better is needed to interrupt transmission”

    That’s just measles. I’ll find the data on the other childhood diseases tomorrow.

    I had measles when I was 10 because my parents/country were too poor to immunize me. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

  23. J Avatar
    J

    Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html

  24. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Scientists,

    Think it is you that doing the dismissive act. I just asked a question because I did not have the time to look right through the thing at the time and simply got frustrated after checking several pages quickly.

    Just putting up a link without explaining what it is or making the point, does not help. When you people can’t get your own way you start cursing others, especially the ones with pseudonyms.

    I am yet to see any consclusive evidence that vaccinations do not have side effects. Even the CDC site admits it and seeks to manage it, so I don’t know what you are saying. I really don’t care if you are part of a conspiracy or not because that does not take away the conspiracy. I am very accustomed to detractors and sometimes I welcome them because they throw up questions that need answering.

    I can’t see why you would want to compare us with a situation in Central Africa. I agree with you, that is ignorance.

    The only conclusion in your quote of what I said is a conclusion for research and not a conclusion about the vaccinations. I can’t say and never suggested that we abandon vaccinations but to study the results carefully and try to assess why these other diseases and conditions are prevalent and on the rise.

    What I think is ignorance and which you yourself call ignorance is to have a problem and not try to find out about it and solve it. How different is your position from those in Central Africa saying no to vaccinations when you are fighting up about research to see what is happening to the health of this nation? We gone past the condition of Central African health services and now in a different health mode.

    Between you and J, all I seeing is paranoia. I would like you two to put up an informed position and not come with this emotional thing and stop talking about misleading people because that is not what this exercise is about. This is a genuine attempt to find out why Terry Mayers is dead and why so much people have asthma. GP said that he can’t understand it.

    Let me add for the record that except for some that I know with Polio, I do not know of anybody that died of small pox, chicken pox, rubella, etc. I however, know of people who contracted asthma, MS and of children who seemed perfect at birth that ended up being autistic.

    I am also concerned that we are so paranoid that we administer this thing to everybody and we do not do any tests to determine whether or not the child’s body could handle the vaccination.

    Everybody is not the same and the same way you can make exceptions based on faith with a high degree of certainty of good health, why not exempt those whose bodies can’t take it? Why sentence them to a life of misery and doom when it is not necessary?

    Goats, whales, etc. have Kids. I don’t eat meat so the kids can get what they want. Tell me something about human beings.

  25. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Gone back to pre-vaccine days? Chaaaa! Come again.

  26. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    When I was a child, every child in our house had measles and none died. As a matter of fact it was expected that children would get measles and it was said that if you got it after a certain age (after 10 yrs old or as an adult) it would be fatal.

    At that time vaccination was not mandatory. I think at the time it was more availability than affordability because vaccinations were not always available and Government used to do it free under the WHO programme. You seem to be an older person than I am so your experience may have been different.

  27. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes

    “I am yet to see any consclusive evidence that vaccinations do not have side effects. ”

    I dont there is a single medical practitioner of any credibility that ever claimed vaccinations dont have side effects in some cases.

    Talk about making a straw man argument

  28. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK claims :

    “The profiles of these side effects and reactions match very closely, a rise in diseases and
    conditions being experienced without explanation, in Barbados.”

    Really?

    Do you have any medical evidence to back this bold statement?

    Any research studies?

    Anything?

    Or is just speculation on your part based on anecdotal evidence?

  29. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes,

    “This is a genuine attempt to find out why Terry Mayers is dead and why so much people have asthma. ”

    Really?

    So why restrict yourself to vaccination being the cause? It is the only possibility being considered.

    Since vaccination coverage is about 97% in Barbados (and has been for years) dont you think the hsospitals would be full of asthmatics if this was the cause? would it not make more sense to consider other causes?

    I have no problem with research but you seem to have drawn your conclusion already.

  30. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes :

    “Let me add for the record that except for some that I know with Polio, I do not know of anybody that died of small pox, chicken pox, rubella, etc.”

    Fantastic !!

    Vaccination been a success.

    In fact we dont have to just take your word. Check the Barbados historical record with the WHO and you will see as vaccination coverage rose each of these diseases started to fall dramatically and are now rare !

  31. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes :

    “Why sentence them to a life of misery and doom when it is not necessary?”

    You start reducing vaccinations in Barbados and that is EXACTLY what you will do

  32. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Scientists

    You really did not read this blog. Asking for other things to be identified that could be researched. Even GP suggested water and a couple other things above. (I accept your apologies)

    Vaccinations should be but one section of the document which is really a first draft as you see it.

    No insult intended but where you living? In Barbados? You check the QEH Asthma Bay anytime recently?

    Don’t keep harping on conclusions you think I come to, help me get it right.

  33. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK claims his study will give a :

    “High probability of reducing the high incidences of asthma and other reported
    chronic and terminal illnesses shown to be associated with excessive vaccinations;”

    Really??

    Has asthma been shown to be “associated with excessive vaccinations???

    Where ? can you cite the journals where such studies were reported?

    What other “chronic and terminal illnesses” have been “associated with excessive vaccinations”????

    Name them.

    Name the studies in medical journals showing this to be the case for each of the named illnesses.

    What exactly is your defination of “execessive vaccinatons”? Is this an accepted medical threshold?

    ROK further claims his research will have the following benefit :

    “Eliminate/Reduce the incidences of autism after vaccination”

    How exactly will that happen?

    Where is the evidence that vaccination causes autism????

    Are you familiar with the study in Finland of 1.8m children??

    What are the autism rates in Barbados? Have they increased ?

  34. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Scientist // September 5, 2008 at 12:00 am

    ROK writes :

    “Why sentence them to a life of misery and doom when it is not necessary?”

    You start reducing vaccinations in Barbados and that is EXACTLY what you will do
    ****************************************
    Nothing to catch at here. Exempting those based on religious belief is about reducing vaccinations too. What is the population increase among this lot? To what extend does this put others or themselves at risk? You got any research?

  35. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes :

    “Don’t keep harping on conclusions you think I come to, help me get it right.”

    Well get over your obsession with vaccinations which is truly one of the greatest gifts science ever gave mankind.

    If you want to understand the high rates of asthma then go to it and dont focus on what is the least likely cause.

    I did read the blog and was heartened to know that many people thought of more plausible causes. Your draft letter did not consider any and that was a startling omission which demonstrated your bias.

  36. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    I do not support exempting based on religious belief.

    Check the article I posts on the mumps outbreak in BC.

    I doubt the non religious are very happy to have got it as an adult.

  37. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    “Vaccinations should be but one section of the document which is really a first draft as you see it.”

    +++++++++++++++

    that would be an improvement

  38. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK writes :

    “When I was a child, every child in our house had measles and none died.”

    That is YOUR experience.

    It is a common myth that measles is not dangerous. To be fair, if you are healthy when you get it you have a better chance of it not being fatal. That is why when it strikes undernourished children it is more likely to be deadly.

    Here is something from wiki which may help you understand just how dangerous measles can be and why we are so fortunate to be rid of it !

    “The benefit of vaccination against measles in preventing illness, disability, and death has been well-documented. The first 20 years of licensed measles vaccination in the U.S. prevented an estimated 52 million cases of the disease, 17,400 cases of mental retardation, and 5,200 deaths.[3] During 1999–2004, a strategy led by the World Health Organization and UNICEF led to improvements in measles vaccination coverage that averted an estimated 1.4 million measles deaths worldwide.[4]”

  39. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Scientist

    It is a draft and open for input. Maybe it’s time to put up a second draft based on the inputs above and start to tidy up the exercise for better input, rather than keep going over some of the same comments.

    I have not done much research but from the little I see, I think the most conclusive evidence will come with research. I am sure we already have the statistics, except on those who don’t use the medical services and that is the most we will probably have to collect.

  40. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    ROK,

    I have no doubt your heart is in the right place.

    Somewhere you have been misled on vaccinations and you “drunk the kool aid” served up by idiots (its hard to be kind to them).

    Time to think more rationally.

    I have told you how dangerous measles really are, something I think you were unaware of. Now do you realise the medical miracle that is the vaccine?

    I have shown you rubella rates collapse, how many birth defects did that save?

    Do you know that over 2/3 rds of deaths in the UK in the 19th century was from TB? mostly children ! Do you have any idea what it must have been like to listen to a small child die with TB???

    Now we have reduced TB not by vaccination alone that is true but without vaccination we would be nowhere today.

    Can you imagine what it would be like to have a child struck down with polio?? A child unable to run, to play sports? when is the last case of polio in Barbados?

    Before you attack vaccinations, think very very carefully.

    The stakes are ENORMOUS !!

  41. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Also from wikipedia

    “Of the 66 cases of measles reported in the U.S. in 2005, slightly over half were attributable to one unvaccinated individual who acquired measles during a visit to Romania.[6] This individual returned to a community with many unvaccinated children. The resulting outbreak infected 34 people, mostly children and virtually all unvaccinated; 9% were hospitalized, and the cost of containing the outbreak was estimated at $167,685.”

  42. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    I have to admit to you that when I submitted that draft I was expecting others to input before it went public but that was probably not clearly understood. I myself was surprised to see it as it is. So I must apologise for any misconceptions caused.

    It came as a suggestion from David and I quickly did my little share but now I holding the brunt. Don’t mind. I am taking it in good spirit. Accustomed to not seeing anybody when I look back, especially when you fighting for somebody else. All the talk until the time comes. That was not the case here though.

  43. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Scientist

    I hope that you see why the research is necessary? I quoting you on the Wikepedia:

    “Of the 66 cases of measles reported in the U.S. in 2005, slightly over half were attributable to one unvaccinated individual who acquired measles during a visit to Romania.[6] This individual returned to a community with many unvaccinated children.”

    We have communities of unvaccinated children.

  44. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Are you suggesting that I as a Scientist did not think research is necessary?

    That is all a good scientist ever does

    That is how we get the vaccines.

    And yes that is how we find out the side effects and the measure the benefits

  45. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    Do you know that of the 34 cases which were in the outbreak, 28 of them “had not been vaccinated, primarily because their parents were concerned about potential adverse events associated with vaccination.”

    That is from the CDC

    Yes research is very important.

    That is why you had a community of unvaccinated children. Because of irrational fear from misinformation.

    Imagine if one had died?

  46. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    J,

    where are you?

    I miss your outstanding input on this issue

  47. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    From Johann Hari , writing about the MMR scare in the UK:

    “Panicked parents assumed that, since it was on the news, there must some evidence for it, and in several areas vaccination rates have fallen by 30 percent. The result? Britain’s chief scientist, Sir David King, warned last week that it is now probable fifty to one hundred kids will die of measles because of the disinformation campaign spearheaded by the Mail. It’s rare a newspaper actually manages to kill people, but Sir David King believes they may pull it off.”

    David,

    Please be careful with what comes on your blog with reference to vaccinations.

    Today we seem to have no understanding of the stakes because we live blissfully unaware of just what these vaccines prevent. I would not like anyone to accuse your blog similarly.

  48. David Avatar
    David

    No need to get defensive ROK. BU support your call for research on the administering of vaccines to Barbadians. What J and Scientist are ignoring is the fact that the research will disprove the hypothesis i.e. prove you wrong when the data collection is analyze so there is no fear.

    We support the call for research on this and many other matters because surprisingly over the years as an educated society we have not been as research driven as we should. The topical issue of co-ed and the impact on boys is one issue which we as a society have argued and have REFUSED to start research. It has been 30 years since major co-ed in Barbados and we are yet to eyeball any serious body of research.

    Again don’t fear the research, if the hypothesis is rubbish the research will support it!

  49. David Avatar
    David

    We are not afraid of accusations. We have been branded xenophobic, racist among others. All we have done so far is to ask for some research on a matter and ask for input from the BU family. Some interesting discussion has ensued.

    Maybe we all need to take a deep breath and step back a little.

  50. Scientist Avatar
    Scientist

    David,

    Agreed.

    However its not that we fear the outcome of fair research, we fear the following :

    – hype ( see UK vaccine scare). No reliable research supported the claim and massive research showed otherwise, the hype was all that was necessary for vaccination rates to drop.

    – biased research. In my view the “research” had drawn conclusions before it started.

    ROK,

    I commend you for seemingly taking a more open position on the vaccines. The stakes really do demand great care.

    I suggest for an effective study you take it one step at a time. Asthma is clearly what you seem to be most concerned about so maybe you should focus on that.

    The first step is identify the problem. Are our rates indeed higher?

    higher than what? the past?
    higher than the carbbean?
    higher than the developed world average?

    Just that start may give you a few clues to where to start looking for a cause. (e.g are rates higher where vaccination coverage is higher?)

    You will need a medical team to direct the research

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