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The PEOPLE Call For National Health Policy Impact Study On The Delivery Of Vaccinations In Barbados

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Last week the BU family engaged in a spirited discussion on the blog post  titled Beware Of Cervical Cancer Vaccine Gardasil! The discussion tossed up an interesting issue that the preponderance of vaccines  being administered to our children maybe the cause of many maladies which appear to be infesting our communities. One example which ROK a BU family member opined was to reference that the high levels of mercury in vaccines maybe directly responsible for an alarming rise in Asthma, Autism and other sicknesses.

Although Barbados has enjoyed an acceptably high level of healthcare over the years, there has been growing concern in some quarters in recent times about our healthcare system. Should we have to say that the concern transcends political lines? Barbadians have been more than alarm at visible levels of mismanagement within our healthcare system at the QEH, polyclinics, medical associations and even the drug sector…

We want to thank Roosevelt O. King (ROK) for consenting to do the grunt work on the suggestion by the BU letter, family to lobby stakeholder health organizations on this matter. The objective is to encourage them via a to use their offices to agitate for quantitative and qualitative work to be done to ascertain the effect vaccinations being delivered to our children today are having on their health now and later on in life.

The importance of the output of this study is two fold:

  1. The health of our young people is linked to the health of our nation which has significant implication for national productivity.
  2. The financial costs to our small economy to support our current healthcare system is already high. To experience an increase in the level of ailments would place our treasury under enormous pressure.

BU family members are asked to review the letter which was drafted by Roosevelt King, who is affiliated to the Non-Govermental Organization BANGO. All suggestions will be considered to ensure that the concerns of BU family members are fairly reflected in the document. If some family members feel uncomfortable submitting their views in the comments section you have the choice of anonymously doing so via the Feedback Page or Email.

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149 responses to “The PEOPLE Call For National Health Policy Impact Study On The Delivery Of Vaccinations In Barbados”

  1. David Avatar
    David

    @ROK

    Please remove the the from the email address on you have on file for BU.

    Thanks

  2. J Avatar
    J

    But we already know what will happen if we reduce vaccination or if we make vaccination voluntary. MANY, MANY CHILDREN WILL DIE.

    Too often we do not study our history. Please tell Roosvelt King and others that they should go to the public library and see what the infant mortality rate was in Barbados in 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000. The data is already there. It is free for anyone who chooses to look at it. Barbados presently enjoys the lowest infant mortality rate that it has had in its entire history. Some of the good health of most of our children is due to clean water, and some is due to better education and better food, but much of it is due to vaccination and to the HEROIC work done by Dame Nita and other public health nurses. I cannot believe that either ROK or BU would seek to undo the work of these NATIONAL HEROINES.

    When my daughter was studying history at A’Level in 1998 -2000 she was required to do a research paper on Barbados in the period of the 1930’s. Both she and I were shocked to discover that Barbados’ infant mortality in 1938 was 220 infant deaths for every 1,000 live births (that rate is significantly worse that Haiti’s is today) Today Barbados’ infant mortality rate is about 14 deaths to every 1,000 births. Dear BU and ROK do you really want to take Barbados back to those bad, bad, bad, bad times? I have a collegue who told me that her grandmother gave birth to 13 children in the early part of the 20th century and that 1 child, ONE OUT OF THIRTEEN survived to adulthood. I think that both BU and Roosevelt are being irresponsible. I forgive BU because you are evidently still very, very young, but Roosevelt is old enough – way, way old enough- to know better.

    If we want to see what will happen if we reduce or eliminate compulsory vacciniation we only need to go to Haiti. If we want to see what happens in a well administered free and compulsory vaccination program we only need to go to Cuba (or to the very best neighbourhoods in the U.S/U.K./Canada where the infant mortality rate is about 6 deaths for every 1,000 births) Or read the data provided freely by the UN Human Development Index. Do we really want to see Barbados at the bottom of that chart? Do we understand the suffering of young parents who have to bury a dozen of their babies?

    It is just plain WRONG of BU and ROK to try to mislead people who are younger, poorer and less well educated that we are. We should be working hard to reduce the infant mortality rate from where it is at 14 to about 7 or less.

    Look don’t get my head hot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @J,

    You are getting overly anxious at this when there is no need to be. All we are asking is to examine and look and see.

    The facts are that in Europe and in USA, cases have come to the court and to health authorities and on the evidence found that some diseases are attributable to vaccinations. Victims have been compensated too.

    The other thing is that you cannot deny that we have a lot of sicknesses among us (in this generation) which are unexpectedly on the rise. Are these freaks of nature or are we doing something that is causing it to happen to us?

    We suggest that as a nation, we should seek to find out exactly what is happening to this generation and for sure the generation to come will be worse. We owe it to our children. They are growing weaker by day! Running to the doctor every five minutes!

    See the children lined up at the pediatric clinics and doctors offices. Like we back in the 1930s?? but the fact is that modern medicine can deal with some of these diseases just as they are dealing with the side effects like asthma and other respiratory diseases and allergies, etc.

    I have a friend who is so allergic that he can’t eat anything without getting sick or rash or other things come out on his skin. I have another friend that told me she ended up in a wheel chair because of a vaccine she had when she was going to Africa.

    I had two friends who recently ended up in hospital in comas which they never came out of (one was Terry Mayers). I have a lot of friends who can’t walk into dusty areas without violent reactions.

    In the media in recent times, children like we never seen before with all kinds of conditions, trying to raise money from the public to deal with all kinds of deformities that we can’t deal with in Barbados.

    Why should we not try to find out what is happening? We have part of our population that is vaccinated and part that is not. There is where scientific investigations can start.

    By no stretch of the imagination can I say from here that we should stop vaccinating children altogether but we should seek to find out what diseases have been elimated and therefore where the vaccine is not necessary.

    We should also look to see what diseases are no longer a threat and can be treated effectively if they arise even if it is going back to vaccinating. We should also look to see which children cannot withstand the vaccinations or stand a good chance of succumbing to the side effects and reactions of vaccinations.

    I do not think that is an unreasonable move because given the large cross section of the population suffering from certain ailments, the one thing in common beside the water is vaccinations. Maybe we should examine the water instead?

    Already we are an aging society. Don’t tell me that crime killing off the workforce? That ain’t true. What is the percentage of the workforce that is dying? What percentage is laid up at any one time? How many laid up that don’t get back to work and how many just dropping down dead?

    As we move towards a more globalised world where we as citizens have to be more competitive and where more and more productivity and efficiency is the hallmark of doing business, I sincerely hope that commonsense prevails and that we as a nation do what it takes to ensure that we can sustain global impacts.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    @J

    Like ROK suggested you need to understand that we are asking for research to be done. Our education would have taught us to ask questions. You seem happy to continue making decisions FOREVER based on the status quo?

    If research is done it may will support maintaining the status quo but what if the current practice of administering our vaccination program has side effects which can be managed?

  5. J Avatar
    J

    I am all in favour of asking questions. I am all in favour of research. But as sure as the sun rises in the East all a suspension of compulsory vaccination will do is KILL Barbadian babies. I am NOT in favour of having Barbadian babies DIE, while we research what has already been widely researched.

    I CANNOT support you and ROK in your quest. I cannot sacrifice the life of my neighbour’s children.

    Your proposal reminds me of what has been happening in South Africa. While the President believes that AIDS is not caused by HIV and asks for more research people DIE. HIV does cause AIDS and countries like Barbados which have accepted that status quo, and created anti HIV/AIDS programs which acknowledges this status quo has kept out mortality rate well below 5% while in South Africa it is over 15%

    BU and ROK may wish to have your children die prematurely (or maybe ROK’s children and grandchildren are all safely grown up; maybe BU has no children). I do not wish my children to die prematurely.

    No I don’t believe in making sport with other people’s lives.

  6. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK

    You say that one cannot deny that we have a lot of sicknesses among us (in this generation) which are unexpectedly on the rise. WHAT AGE GROUP ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? The children?

    With respect to the children growing weaker by day and running to the doctor every five minutes

    IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PLAYING OUTSIDE AS WE USED TO DO?

    Re I have a friend who is so allergic that he can’t eat anything without getting sick or rash or other things come out on his skin.

    DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PACKAGED FOODS WE EAT FULL OF GLUTAMATE, FUMARATE SUCCINATE ETC

    Re the fact is that modern medicine can deal with some of these diseases just as they are dealing with the side effects like asthma and other respiratory diseases and allergies, etc.

    ARE YOU SAYING THAT ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES AND ALLERGIES ARE SIDE EFFECTS OF VACCINATIONS?

    I have another friend that told me she ended up in a wheel chair because of a vaccine she had when she was going to Africa.

    THIS SEEMS TO BE AN ISOLATED INCIDENT, WOULD YOU SAY?

    I had two friends who recently ended up in hospital in comas which they never came out of (one was Terry Mayers). I have a lot of friends who can’t walk into dusty areas without violent reactions.

    ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESE FOLK’S ATOPY IS DUE SOLELY TO VACCINATIONS

    Re Maybe we should examine the water instead?
    PERSONNEL FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH INSPECTORATE COLLECT RANDOM SAMPLES FROM SEVERAL AREAS EVERY WEEK FOR EXAMINATION FOR COLIFORMS ETC PERHAPS CHEMICAL EXAMINATION SHOULD BE CARRIEED OUT IN ADDITION..

  7. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    If you would calm down and reflect you would see that you are being too emotional. Vaccinations will not stop while research is going on. Nothing should happen until there is a conclusion and I am risking to bet that the conclusion will ask for more research before anything is done.

    Furthermore, this is a win-win situation as we are saying let people opt so that those with fears can have them allayed.

  8. J Avatar
    J

    Dear GP:

    I am going to take a little Sunday afternoon rest. I’ll leave you to find the good fight. Thanks

  9. David Avatar
    David

    @GP

    Are you retreating from your previous positions? Are you positing that we should ask you to draft a document to be sent to stakeholders who manage our water supply? LOL

    J please try to relax. All that is being asked for is some research based on some observables supported by some bare bones research.

    Whats the harm?

  10. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK

    Im trying to get your post in context.

  11. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    No I am not reversing my position at all.
    I just want to get a few things clear before we can make a meaningful input into ROK’s response to J thats all.

    The Public Health Inspectors I know tested the water for coliform bacteria 30 years ago. I honestly dont know if they test for chemicals in the water now.

    In the last 30 years we know that we have been using more and more pesticides than formerly.

    If these cheminals are leaching into our water supply they are more likely to be a cause of atopic illnesses, because of thier prolonged exposure.

    I have for a while been concerned at the use of malate, fumarate, succinate etc as preservatives in a lot of packaged foods that we commonly use today, and wonder what their long term effect might be.

  12. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    When I read of the Terry Mayers situation, I wondered what on earth he was exposed to that his bronchial area could reach that degree of hyper activity that he should end up in coma in ICU.

    I wonder too what was revealed in the CPC on this case. And what information has been passed on to the populace.

  13. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP,
    You raised some good points which I cannot answer. The medical profession is not united on this either.

    You said: “IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PLAYING OUTSIDE AS WE USED TO DO?”

    Maybe so and I am sure the research will address that. It should also address nutrition because I am sure this is not just one thing alone but a multiplicity of factors which we should seek to investigate. We must maintain good health.

    You said: “DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PACKAGED FOODS WE EAT FULL OF GLUTAMATE, FUMARATE SUCCINATE ETC ”

    No, natural fruits and vegetables, rice, etc. He can’t eat pudding & souse. He can’t eat mangoes. He can’t drink lemonade. I can’t understand how the man survives??

    You said: “ARE YOU SAYING THAT ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES AND ALLERGIES ARE SIDE EFFECTS OF VACCINATIONS?”

    That is what the research in New Zealand revealed. Two studies were done; one involving 1500 persons and another with 30,000. Will send these links in a later post when I re-locate them.

    You said: “THIS SEEMS TO BE AN ISOLATED INCIDENT, WOULD YOU SAY?”

    It is not the first I have heard of, but as isolated as you think it is, how about if it happened to you?

    You said: “ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESE FOLK’S ATOPY IS DUE SOLELY TO VACCINATIONS”

    Don’t know, do you?

    You said: “PERSONNEL FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH INSPECTORATE COLLECT RANDOM SAMPLES FROM SEVERAL AREAS EVERY WEEK FOR EXAMINATION FOR COLIFORMS ETC PERHAPS CHEMICAL EXAMINATION SHOULD BE CARRIEED OUT IN ADDITION..”

    Thanks for this information so we can eliminate the water. Are there any further suggestions as to what we should examine besides vaccinations?

  14. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Check also Ashaki Browne who was in a similar coma and died two Thursdays ago. Burying Tuesday I think.

  15. David Avatar
    David

    One of the points which Ian Walcott made before he was shown the door by the BU family is the fact that as a society claiming a best in class education how very little use is made of research to drive decision making in Barbados.

    Why after educating ourselves to the highest level we would resist using the methods which that education provides us that can accurately search out truths?

  16. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    GP,

    My last comment was also meant for you.

    You said: “If these cheminals are leaching into our water supply they are more likely to be a cause of atopic illnesses, because of thier prolonged exposure.”

    I am hoping for some input and the real and serious question is what can we do and where can we look? I have not submitted anything anywhere except here. So if I have it wrong, make an input.

    As a matter of fact, what I submitted and what David posted was supposed to be a first draft and I was hoping that with inputs from others we could have made it a neutral document to include the concerns you raised.

    You can see that the document is not complete. It does not have a conclusion and all of it can do with expansion to ask a practical, scientific question.

    It is not set in stone and it certainly needs inputs, so can we agree to build a document that addresses the multiplicity of concerns?

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK
    I think you definitely have to check the water for pesticides, especially those that tend to have a lot of nucleophile moieties in thier structures.

    Per haps you can particularly have samples taken in areas where you think the leaching into the water table is more likely.

    Is thier an association with chemicals used on golf greens.

    What similarities are there between Mr Browne’s death and that of Mr Mayers besides coma and asthma.

    Also I think that you should probably collect info on say the 50 most common chemicals used in our food packages and cosmetics, and include them in your questionaires.

    I know that fumarate glutamate etc which are used in these preservatives might be deemed safe since they occur naturally in the body in the Krebs cycle, but I have long wondered if they are indeed safe in that whereas these chemicals are converted to one another in the Kreb’s cycle, they probably do not hang around in the cells long enough as to acculmulate in the concentrations administered in food preservation.

    Perhaps your reserach should begin my a mass testing to ascertain which members of the community are atopic and thus susceptible to asthma and other atopic illnesses, and those who are not.

    This might go along way in your analysis.

    Some folk believe that generations who played in the dirt outside etc got a protective eosinophilia, whereas in developed countries there is an increase in children who don’t . Some believe that this might be a cause for the increasing atopy.

    You said that research in New Zealand revealed that there is a link of vaccines and asthma. Can you say which ones? Also it might be interesting to compare the vehicle used in the preparations in those vaccines with what is used by us, if any. Often the vehicle is the problem rather than the active ingredient.

  18. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    With respect to asthmatics!

    I grew up in the days when we used aminophyline IV push and IV steroids for rescue. That was the most dramatic thing you could see in treating any patient.

    Of course we didnt have the beta agonists or the anti leukotines et then. Because the possible side effects of aminophyline is serious (although I have never seen them in any one) we are more sophisticated today.

    In the 80’s I used to give my patients at a certain clinic aminophyline suppositories to use as thier first line attack for rescue, since the blood levels dont get as high as when given IV.

    My asthmatic patients never returned to me wheezing ever. Instead they came only for the suppositories, and proclaimed that when they used the suppositories they did not have to go to hospital for treatment.

    But low and behold the Director of the drug service unilaterally took this preparation of the drug formulary citing that rectal absorption of drugs are irregular.

    ROK perhaps this is an interesting issue that can be raised in your research. and an issue that asthmatics should look into.

    I am not at home and I dont know much about air pollution etc. And whereas I dont think that vaccines is the big issue in causing asthma in Bim, I really can not understand why two men will develop such hyperirritability in thier airways that they go into coma.

    I assume that these imtelligent guys carried thier rescue inhalers with them at all times.

  19. cherry2enpowered Avatar
    cherry2enpowered

    ATTENTION! MERCURY——- SECOND MOST DEADLY TOXIC SUBSTANCE ON EARTH AFTER PLUTONIUM.

    Ingredients found in vaccines [ will fall into catergories like preservatives, additives, adjuvants and other substances] are:
    gelatin proteins
    egg proteins
    thimerosal——a compound mercury[ ethylmercury]
    various types of sugars
    amino acids
    aluminum compounds———researchers have found that too much alum can adversely affect the nervous system. Canada sometime back found high levels of alum in baby formula. Higher levels than adult milk.
    antibiotics
    formaldehyde———found in nail polish
    yeast proteins

    Widely used before 2000, thimerosal has been the center of controversy for some years now. Some parents of autistic children believe that the mercury contained in the preservative is responsible for their children’s autism.

    In 1999, the U.S Food and Drug Administration (FDA) concluded that children who were vaccinated according to the recommended childhood immunization schedule could be exposed to levels of mercury from the thimerosal contained in those vaccines that were higher than the maximum levels considered safe by the FDA.

    In response, the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) asked vaccine manufacturers to remove thimerosal from vaccines. That move, not surprisingly, concerned many parents who wondered if the preservative was being removed because it was harmful.

    http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/070926/kids-vaccine-ingredient-not-likely-linked-to-neurological-problems.htm

    How do we know for sure that thimerosal is completly removed from overseas shipments of vaccines?

    Me, I don’t have a problem with vaccinations. I have a problem with the increasing doses given to today’s children, weak immune systems and sicker children. In my day if I had four shots, I had enough. Not a smallpox, chicken pox, measels, polio as a matter of fact there were four of us and none of had any childhood ailments. There were sick kids in our day but not as sickly as the kids of today. Which brings me two conclusions:

    1/ certain ingredients were not present in vaccines back then or
    2/ the % levels have increased.

    The Psalmist said …..”I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” psalm 139:14

    Our Creator designed the human bodybody with its own immune system but today the increasing numerous shots given, not only weaken our immune systems [our children that is] but every ‘sniff’ passing their way gotta be treated by vaccines/medications just because their bodies are strong enough to fight it off. Compounded by the fact of a wordwide hacket job of discrediting the relevance of vitimins to one’s body [a total reversal of what I was taught during school days] plus the junk parents feed their kids on. You know how sad it is to see so many five & six yr olds stock up medication?

    THE COLD HARD FACTS ARE THESE: THE PHARMACEUTICALS COMPANIES IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN & MAXIMIZE INCREASING BILLION DOLLAR PROFITS KNOW OF THE POTENTIAL GOLD MINE IN KEEPING CHILDREN AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE HOOK ON MEDICATIONS BY RECOMMENDING INCREASING VACCINES SHOTS THAT HAVE PRODUCED MORE SIDE EFFECTS THAN IN ANY OTHER TIME IN OUR HISTORY SINCE ITS INTRODUCTION YET CHILDREN ARE WORSE OFF THAN EVER BEFORE AND BECAUSE OF THIS ITS SALES OF CHILDREN’S MEDICATION WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE INTO ADULTHOOD AND DEATH ESPECIALLY IF THE PROBLEM IS IRREVERSIBLE.

    Please indulge me a bit longer while I saw you the similarities between mercury poisioning and autism.

    Summary Comparison of Characteristics
    of Autism & Mercury Poisoning

    #Speech, Language & Hearing Deficits
    Mercury Poisoning /Autism

    Loss of speech, failure to develop speech/Delayed language, failure to develop speech
    Dysarthria; articulation problems /Dysarthria; articulation problems
    Speech comprehension deficits /Speech comprehension deficits
    Verbalizing & word retrieval problems /Echolalia; word use & pragmatic errors
    Sound sensitivity /Sound sensitivity
    Hearing loss; deafness in very high doses /Mild to profound hearing loss
    Poor performance on language IQ tests /Poor performance on verbal IQ tests

    #Sensory Abnormalities
    Mercury Poisoning /Autism

    Abnormal sensation in mouth & extremities /Abnormal sensation in mouth & extremities
    Sound sensitivity /Sound sensitivity
    Abnormal touch sensations; touch aversion /Abnormal touch sensations; touch aversion
    Vestibular abnormalities /Vestibular abnormalities

    #Motor Disorders
    Mercury Poisoning /Autism

    Involuntary jerking movements – arm flapping, ankle jerks, myoclonal jerks, choreiform movements, circling, rocking /Stereotyped movements – arm flapping, jumping, circling, spinning, rocking; myoclonal jerks; choreiform movements

    Deficits in eye-hand coordination; limb apraxia; intention tremors/ Poor eye-hand coordination; limb apraxia; problems with intentional movements

    Gait impairment; ataxia – from incoordination & clumsiness to inability to walk, stand, or sit; loss of motor control /Abnormal gait and posture, clumsiness and incoordination; difficulties sitting, lying, crawling, and walking

    Difficulty in chewing or swallowing /Difficulty chewing or swallowing
    Unusual postures; toe walking /Unusual postures; toe walking

    #Cognitive Impairments
    Mercury Poisoning /Autism

    Borderline intelligence, mental retardation – some cases reversible /Borderline intelligence, mental retardation – sometimes “recovered”

    Poor concentration, attention, response inhibition /Poor concentration, attention, shifting attention
    Uneven performance on IQ subtests /Uneven performance on IQ subtests
    Verbal IQ higher than performance IQ /Verbal IQ higher than performance IQ
    Poor short term, verbal, & auditory memory /Poor short term, auditory & verbal memory
    Poor visual and perceptual motor skills, impairment in simple reaction time /Poor visual and perceptual motor skills, lower performance on timed tests
    Difficulty carrying out complex commands /Difficulty carrying out multiple commands
    Word-comprehension difficulties /Word-comprehension difficulties

    Deficits in understanding abstract ideas & symbolism; degeneration of higher mental powers /Deficits in abstract thinking & symbolism, understanding other’s mental states, sequencing, planning & organizing

    #Unusual Behaviors
    Mercury Poisoning Autism

    Stereotyped sniffing (rats) /Stereotyped, repetitive behaviors
    ADHD traits /ADHD traits
    Agitation, unprovoked crying, grimacing, staring spells /Agitation, unprovoked crying, grimacing, staring spells

    Sleep difficulties /Sleep difficulties
    Eating disorders, feeding problems /Eating disorders, feeding problems
    Self injurious behavior, e.g. head banging /Self injurious behavior, e.g. head banging

    #Population Characteristics
    Mercury Poisoning Autism

    Effects more males than females /Male:female ratio estimated at 4:1
    At low doses, only affects those geneticially susceptible /High heritability – concordance for MZ twins is 90%
    First added to childhood vaccines in 1930s /First “discovered” among children born in 1930s
    Exposure levels steadily increased since 1930s with rate of vaccination, number of vaccines /Prevalence of autism has steadily increased from 1 in 2000 (pre1970) to 1 in 500 (early 1990s), higher in 2000.

    Exposure occurs at 0 – 15 months; clinical silent stage means symptom emergence delayed; symptoms emerge gradually, starting with movement & sensation /Symptoms emerge from 4 months to 2 years old; symptoms emerge gradually, starting with movement & sensation.

    More info found here:

    http://www.autismtruth.org/Archived/60minutes_112004.html

  20. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP,

    Thanks so much. You have indeed added a lot here. Incidentally “Shaki” is a female.

    You said: “Perhaps your research should begin my a mass testing to ascertain which members of the community are atopic and thus susceptible to asthma and other atopic illnesses, and those who are not.”

    Would it be useful to look at demographics here too to see if they are in any catchment areas? Let me see if I find that New Zealand research for you.

    Also I put up the document in MS Word so if you wish and you have the time, download it and make some inputs. This could become a section which is headed vaccinations. We can then add pesticides and water pollution as another section and then nutrition and preservatives as another. What you say? See download link:

    http://www.igloo.org/bangoonline/download-nocache/Library/health/nationalhe

    Needless to say, any other help we can get would be welcomed.

  21. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @cherry2enpowered

    They are claiming that they no longer use mercury based vehicles in vaccinations, but I agree with you, we should do the check and make sure that some unscrupulous company is not keeping the old formula for the lesser developed countries; where law suits don’t ever arise.

  22. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re

    Would it be useful to look at demographics here too to see if they are in any catchment areas?

    I think atopy is inherited but not 100@ sure

    I think you guys with even an asthmatic dog farless a relative, should be clamorring for amionophyline supossitories to be available for asthmatics to use as thier primary attempts at rescue as they set off for medical assistance.

    It is more likely to be effective than the relatively low dose of medication delivered by inhalers in an emergency situation.

  23. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK
    I think you should get the input from any immunologist at UWI

    I think you should survey the presence or absence of carpets and pets indoors etc as part of your excercise

    Whereas it is fun to argue and offer opinions on the forum, a lot of talk does not help too much.
    I think that initiatives arising out of our arguements here that will bare fruit are welcomed.

    I still believe we should give DPT MMR and maybe BCG and be careful with Gardasil.

    But since about 1966 when we started importing chicken backs and cool aid and Tang etc we have gone downhill with the chemicals we have been taking.

    There has been an enormous bombardbment of our homes and bodies with chemicals since then.

    Lets remember that many ingredients in the cosmetics and stuff we put on our skins can be absorbed by the fat in our skins.

  24. David Avatar
    David

    @GP

    We were thinking the same thing. There is a research department at UWI. BANGO should submit a proposal for consideration. The hurdle maybe financing.

    We know that Dr. Justin Robinson is a visitor to BU, ROK please give him a call and ask for his direction. We think you maybe on to something here by the instrument must be carefully crafted.

  25. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Justin is an economist unless I got a name wrong. Wouldn’t we need medical research?

    Agree with you that it must be carefully crafted and that is why it needs much more content than the first draft.

    Hi ROK

    We asked you to call him because he would obviously know his way around UWI.

    We have not had a chance to properly read the document but to encourage takers to do the research some, good studies on a similar subject matter would be useful. If any BU family member can provide research material…?

    David

  26. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK

    I think you should think team. Even if the brother is an economist, and his input may not be hot on the medical side it will be for another project, and if he has been into surveys, he might be able to help with your survey questions

    Obviosly is one thing to some and another thing to others, but it seems you want to take these daily arguments of ours in our sparetime to a higher level.

    I think it would be a waste of time coming on BU if it all ends here as simply rum shop talk or beach talk or whatever where Bajans meet to talk.
    Best wishes in your endeavors

  27. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ David

    Whereas finances might slow down ROK’s ideas or ideals, there are some surveys or research topics here that might not be so expensive to do.

    I am hoping, for example that the Public Health Dept has been tesating our water for pesticides. If so, ROK may be able to present an analysis of the info.

    Another source may be information collected by the medical students for thier Social & Preventative Medicine rotations over the years– if they still have to do a reserach project.

  28. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP,

    Yes, the idea is team work as you would see from the document so thanks for the leads.

    The first thing is to develop the document. I suspect that by the time we get to Justin or the researchers who will collect the data, they will want to see a comprehensive plan with inputs from the medical profession.

    This is certainly not intended to be a digital exercise in all senses of the word. I have pondered on this for a long time and to tell the truth, BU has assisted in encouraging me to put this in the public domain; not only David’s invitation but the fact that BU is here.

  29. J Avatar
    J

    Has anybody considered cow’s milk? It is well know that a lot of people of West Arfican ancestry ie. most of us are lactose intolerant. Some of us are also intolerant of cow’s milk protein, and even of beef (arthritis symptoms).

    We drink a lot more milk nowadays starting with the importation of cheap cow’s milk from New Zealand for the school feeding program. But should our children be using so much milk, cheese (read macaroni pie) butter, ice cream etc. as well as milk added to cookies, cakes and other processed foods.

    One of the first things allergists do is to ask the parent to remove cow’s milk from the child’s diet.

    We are NOT European’s or even North Africans who evolved along with the d*** cows. Maybe we need to give our young mother’s a greater period of maternity leave – say 6 to 9 months – so that they can nurse their babies longer, so that cow’s milk is not introduced to our children’s diets so early.

    In North America some schools have banned peanut butter and other peanut products. Some European descended children tend to have peanut allergy because the West African peanut is a strange food and their systems cannot tolerate it. I know a lot of Bajan children/people with milk intolerance but none with peanut allergy (I am not of course saying that there are no people in Barbados with peanut allergy) , yet peanut allergy is commonplace in the North America and Europe.

    Why?

    This cow’s milk problem may be a more useful line of research than the vaccine one.

  30. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    As a youngster, I was brought up on good cow’s milk. The type that when the cow is milked out on the pasture by the time you reach home the cream starts to form on the top. Today the milk is watered down, the milk from the cow has no body. I think the abundance of fast foods parents feed their children on is greatly contributing to unhealthy youngsters. Plus children no longer play on the outside nor run around barefooted to massage the bottom of their feet. Vaccine is necessary and is the lease problem to our young children.

  31. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    I’m worried about the amount of illegal children that is coming into the school system in Barbados. To get my child into school he/she has to be vaccined and MUST show Barbadian citizenship. How then are these illegal children getting into the school? If they are vaccined, how did they get it? or if they are not, can they infect the other children in the class. If vaccination is so important, why only barbadian have to get it?

  32. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    I think it is a very good idea to do a study on the possible effect that so many innoculations may be causing other illnesses. It would also be a good idea to look at the water supply.
    But trying to frighten people that the death toll will rise if our children do not get all of these shots based on figures from the 1930s’ does not take into account that our living standards are much higher now, i.e. indoor plumbing etc.
    Why would anyone object to the suggestion to continue the innoculations but study the results?Are they afraid of what the research will prove?

  33. J Avatar
    J

    But Kay the DEATH toll will RISE without comulsory vaccination.

    There HAS been a good bit of talk on this blog about making vaccination voluntary. That is dangerous FOOLISH talk.

    An attempt by mis-guided people to undo 50 years of excellent public health work.

    The germs are still out there.

    I my lifetime I have known 3 people die of tetanus, all of whom had apparently “minor” abrasions or punctures and so did not go to the doctor on time. I have know one in intensive care for months with tetanus. I’ve know 2 permanently disabled by polio. Their parents, children, widows still grieve. This is not ancient history. This is NOW.

    No I am NOT a medical professional so think then about what doctors and nurses must know.

    I am not yet 60, so I am talking about the present generation.

  34. J Avatar
    J

    Dear Scout:

    There is no such thing as an illegal child.

    Most countries provide at least a primary education to all residents, because believe it or not it is cheaper to educate undocumented children than to deal with an uneducated underclass.

    It is also cheaper to vaccinate ALL children than to deal with an epidemic.

    If you doubt me see what a measles epidemic, or a polio epidemic would do to our beloved tourist industry.

    Ask the people in Toronto what happened to their tourist industry in the year or two after the SARS epidemic? There is still no SARS vaccine.

    The clinics are sensible enough to vaccinate all children and the principals are sensible enough to check that this has been done.

  35. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Very good points J

  36. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Who say the children will die? Why aren’t the Rastafarian children dead? Why are those who refuse vaccinations on grounds of religious beliefs not dead?

    This is bordering on the foolish. Here you have people among us that are not vaccinated but we are not worried about any epidemics because once your children are vaccinated you feel safe, right? So why you trying to force that down somebody’s throat who feels threatened by vaccinations?

    Who say that in both cases there may not be a false sense of Security? However, you feel so safe that you don’t want to find out how safe you really are?

    Everybody has the right to choose. To administer vaccinations to those who believe otherwise is a breach of their human and political rights.

    If therefore the whole of the African community decide to become muslims tomorrow, where would that vaccination program be?

    I think that to wallow in ignorance is insane. We have no proof one way or the other. There is more to consider here than the diseases we seek to vaccinate against because the fact is, we are a much weaker generation.

    Tell me something, are children born autistic or is it developed and what causes it? Are children born asthmatic? What causes it to develop? Why is it so widespread? Are you saying that it is futile to find out or you saying that we have the answers already?

    Indeed not! So why the paranoia if youu feel safe? We cannot in all honesty, compare the 1930s to today when it comes to health, hygiene and the availability of medical services. Yet we still do not have the answers, so are we to mark time?

    Talk about the work of the heroines? Well if they marked time in that period, where would we be? They had problems and sought to solve them. Are we prepared to leave ours alone to get worse and worse? What justice is there for the work they have done? They dealt with their time, we should deal with the problems in ours otherwise we would have failed in our duty to our nation and would also have failed to secure a safe future for our children.

  37. J Avatar
    J

    Dear ROK

    Q. “Here you have people among us that are not vaccinated but we are not worried about any epidemics”
    A. Take the time to do some research on herd immunity
    Q. “Everybody has the right to choose. To administer vaccinations to those who believe otherwise is a breach of their human and political rights.”
    A. No it is not.
    Q. “If therefore the whole of the African community decide to become muslims tomorrow, where would that vaccination program be?
    A. Islam does NOT prohibit vaccination. Like many Bajans I have a sister who nursed is Saudi Arabia the site of Mecca and cradle of Islam for decades. Islam does NOT prohibit vaccination. The wealthy, deeply religious Saudis are only too happy to have their children vaccinated by a good Bajan nurse.

    Some poorly educated Rastafarians have been mislead into refusing vaccines for thier children. This is unfortunate. However well educated Rastafarians for the most part DO have their children vaccinated.

    Stop trying to mislead poorly educated people.

    If we want to do something good for our young mothers and children why don’t we grant them 6 months of maternity leave with full pay. Why don’t we have sustained breast feeding education programs. Why don’t we stop burning plastic and other junk in our yards? Why don’t we stop polluting the air because we feel we have a God given right to have a car at every door? Why don’t we develop a good public transportation system to that we can get the number of private cars on the roads back to the pre-asthma days?

    I fight with you in memoryof Trevor and Herma who were permanently disabled, for Eustace who spent far too long in intensive care, for Sylvan and Mac and Bruce who died. All after 1965. All from diseases which are preventable by vaccine.

    The germs have not all disappeared just because we can now wash our hands with soap and warm water.

    Mass vaccination is still necessary.

  38. J Avatar
    J

    The unvaccinated Rastafarian and other children WILL die the day an infected tourist comes here witha current infection an sets off an epidemic among the unvaccinated.

    I have had friends and realtives die from vaccine preventable diseases and I am sure that you have too. Why don’t you tell the young people the truth instead of trying to mislead them?

  39. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    J
    I am sorry that you should know 3 people who have died of tetanus, but tetanus is not a disease that passes from person to person. Most people who contract it are adults, and we are talking about compulsary innoculation of infants and children.
    My generation did not get MMR and parents often used to say that it is better to get these childhood diseases while still a child. The problem with german measles is for pregnant women, so why not just have women get that shot before they get pregnant.
    Furthermore these innoculations do not give permanent protection and most adults do not go and get boosters, if they even had the origional series of shots.

  40. J Avatar
    J

    Dear Kay:

    Do you want me to tell you then about my 40 something friend whose 20 something daughter is profoundly deaf becasue her mother did not get MMR as a child but DID get rubella while pregnant? Do you know how many young people in Barbados are deaf because our parents/government were too POOR to immunize our generation as children. Go up to the school for the deaf one day. Talk to the parents who struggle to find an pay for special education for their deaf children. Do you know how much it costs to send a deaf child to a university for the deaf such as Gaulladet?

    The reason that “women don’t get the shot before they get pregnant” is that even now most conceptions are unplanned. We have to immunize the girls before their first period, and for some girls that can be as young as 7 and we cannot predict when the first period will occur in any given girl. The first period is ALWAYS a surprise.

  41. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @j,

    Why is it that I am misleading people and you are not? I am not sure where you are coming from. You have a thing about vaccination but this raises another point about health security.

    Why is it that we are so much in defense of western medicine that we can’t think for ourselves? It feels like a safe haven? Well it is not.

    I fail to believe that and I am going to place you in the minority with that view.

    Let me say to you that you should check the constitution of Barbados and the International Convention of Human Rights to which Barbados is a signatory.

    To my mind though, it would seem that the reason for legislating such programs would be to protect the medical industry. They only have to say that they were fulfilling the legal requirements as imposed on them by the state. They become agents of the state (so to speak).

    The fact is however, the industry profits from it and to this extend, the courts have not eased up on the industry’s responsibility to be vigillant and to be liable for negligence, given the undertaking.

    I need to check on the American case law, where it is reported that victims of the mal-effects of vaccinations have been awarded damages. If there is but one thing this establishes for me without even reading a case, it is that there has to be sufficient conclusive evidence for the courts to make such awards.

    Where would this put your argument?

  42. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    But J, we are not advocating a total discontinuation of vaccines. We are saying, find the ones that can be eliminated.

  43. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @David,

    Just seeing your earlier note. Will call Justin. I am up to my ears right now but I will try to call tomorrow.

  44. David Avatar
    David

    @STEADY

    We did tell you that there would be a delay and as it looks a possible revisit to negotiations with the EU. Did we not?

    @ROK

    We see that the Caribbean Policy Development Centre have started a petition like BANGO. Does it make sense to collaborate?

    Isn’t it interesting that CARIFORUM want to sign on to this EPA as a group but we have different policies on CHINA and Petrocaribe?

    All seems so confusing.

    Does this all mean that those countries who are pulling back don’t have confidence in the regional Negotiating Machinery?

  45. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @David,
    Actually, we are collaborating and that is why the two petitions are the same only one is couched for Barbados and one for the Caribbean. We had hoped that all the states would do the some but we have T&T, St. Lucia, Dominica, Antigua and I think Grenada on board that collected signatures.

    As a matter of fact the two petitions have been making the same rounds together in the same e-mails from the very beginning.

    It was CPDC that framed the first petiition and we set the target of 5000 signatures. The response is very weak. Not sure that we will get as much as 20% of the target.

    (I think we are on the wrong string) However, while this may be low this is still encouraging because we could see the increase in signatories with every e-mail and after every media story. Nobody signs when news and views are not in the air.

    I must state here that a lot of organisations have gone into effective hibernation in the past; tardy and apathetic. This is therefore encouraging as it is a sign that hibernation seems to be over. I am sure you would have seen the same effect on the population itself; more people willing to speak up.

    It must be more a country’s assertion of its right to determine its destiny that is causing the pull-back than any consideration of confidence in the RNM. Not to have confidence in the RNM is the same as a Prime Minister not having confidence in the majority of his colleagues. The RNM can only negotiate what they are told. They have directives coming collectively from the process.

    Even though all the countries took part in the process, there may have been those who were silent or did not get their recommendations in the collective.

    This is a critical decision and while some may want to throw away their sovereignty to EU, there are others that do not have the confidence in the EU to act in their economic interests and would prefer to take the chance of not signing.

    As I see it the ball is in our court. If the majority go ahead and sign, then the Agreement goes into force to the (apparent) detriment of those who did not sign. The other point is that the EU will use our signing to coerce the other regions into signing.

    If, however, nobody signs, the EU is in trouble, not us. First, they won’t have anything to wave in the face of Pacific and Africa and then Pacific and Africa may say that if the Caribbean did not sign, we are not signing.

    I am very sure that they are both looking on with interests and taking notes too. We are supposed to be the example and EU knows it can’t fail.

    (I want to copy this to the right thread)

  46. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    If those girls were immunised against german measles before the age 7 the immunity will be gone by the time that they are in their 20’s and 30’s as it does not last. So there is still a risk of contracting german measles and hence having children not only deaf but also with down’s syndrome and holes in their heart. So the best way to prevent these is to plan pregnancies and immunise before attempting to start a family.

  47. J Avatar
    J

    Dear ROK:

    American lawyers should stay out of health care.

    I am glad that most Bajans are sensible enough to keep lawyers out of their health care.

    Not withstanding the constitution governments all over the world compell people to do all kinds of things. I am compelled to pay taxes. I am compelled to educate my children. I am compelled to vaccinate my children. I am compelled to keep my yard and house clean and mosquito free (or at least to make a good effort). I am comanded to stop at red lights. If I own or manage a restaurant I am compelled to provide toilet/sink/soap/water/toilet paper for my customers. If a big hurricane comes the government can quite lawfully compell me to leave my home.

    All those things lead to a well governed society.

    We do not want anarchy.

    I did not lie whan I said that friends and relatives had died from vaccine preventable diseases in this Barbados since 1965. I am sure that some of yours have died too. Why don’t you speak the truth?

    The young people need to know the truth so that old fools do not lead them to destruction.

  48. J Avatar
    J

    Dear Kay:

    More than 50% of all pregnancies worldwide are unplanned.

    People have unplanned sex. It is called being human. It is also the reason we have HIV/AID epidemic world wide.

    When you have figured out a way to get ever single human being to plan every single act of intercourse pleae let me know.

    Don’t you see that in the U.S. the 17 year daughter of the Republic Vice Presidential candidate is pregnant? Do you think that she consulted her parents or her doctor before having sex?

    Do all or most human beings generally engage in rational discussion and planning before having sex?

  49. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    J

    There was a time when all good Catholics planned the time of month when they would have sex since contraception was forbidden. The timing was based on the female’s fertile days and was called the Rhythm method. Some wag called it Rhythm and Blues because if you screwed up (pun intended) the days the Blues would surely follow..

  50. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    J
    Since the MMR is given at age 15 months and the immunity is gone by about 16- 17 years and the majority of pregnancies whether planned or not occur after age 18, giving babies this shot is not preventing birth defects. Unless you also happen to know some 3, 4 , 5 year olds who have had babies!

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