[Barbados Underground] Yes Jeff, Charles Herbert faces a monumental task, not least because he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The social meaning of the case has become about the history of race relations in Barbados, so although the court case is supposed to consider the evidence dispassionately, I am not certain that a jury will lack bias
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Hal Austin August 5, 2018 10:35 AM
“You have given a character reference to the BU court of public opinion for your old school mate.”
++++++++++++++++++
Hal, I have provided the information that Herbert is rich and that he is smart. If you consider those to clearly factual matters to constitute character then you have a very shallow notion of character.
Read over everything that I have written in this thread as well as the ones that preceded it. You will not find a single word attesting to Herbert’s moral character… I have no information to cast doubt on his moral character, but I am just an old schoolmate renewing an acquaintance after 40+ years.
@John
A police certificate of character would have confirmed what is already known read that Prescod served time? GEL HR/management would have the discretion to waive if there is a policy position that prevent? So many question being asked by the public court.
“PLT
You would not have been recruited to do the Caribbean run. With your talent, you would have been recruited to operate the Colombian run.”
And don’t for one minute think that there is no Colombia run because there is.
PLT,
Have you ever provided a character reference? Such information make up a character reference, since they imply he is unlikely to deal in such illegalities, or don’t you understand? I have read almost everything you have said, from your school days with Mr Herbert and it appears to me as an unqualified reference.
To spell out what I am saying in simple terms, the matter is sub judice and should be left at that until the court hearing.
@Dee Word
What is your point again? Bush Tea, the blogmaster and other have posted to BU pages that in all our interactions with Charles Herbert we have found him to be a gentleman. It does not mean that he is innocent of the charge, all it does is to share an opinion about the man to join what many in this forum have been doing. The blogmaster refer BU to the opening quote offered by Peter in the original post on the subject:
[Barbados Underground] Yes Jeff, Charles Herbert faces a monumental task, not least because he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The social meaning of the case has become about the history of race relations in Barbados, so although the court case is supposed to consider the evidence dispassionately, I am not certain that a jury will lack bias
BU Commenter Peter Lawrence Thompson
@de pedantic Dribbler August 5, 2018 10:39 AM
“Becareful ole chap you are almost becoming a part of the story…”
+++++++++++++++++++++++
We are all part of the story, because the story is not about several hundred pounds of weed, but about several hundred years of history.
I like how the anonymice of BU pursue those who were brave enough to use their real names.
Haha you need to keep your focus on the annonymice and leave David, and PLTalone.
At the meeting of anonymice we agreed to a daily limit to you of
1 question to PLT (we see a series idiotic questions being posed to PLT and PLT believing that needs to reply)
1 nasty comment about the blogmaster (you have not convinced us he is a complete idiot)
an infinite number of comment to anonymice
@PLT yours @9.11am
Thanks for sharing, the proverbial old school tie almost proved to be a millstone on an anticipated journey in the Wide Sargasso Sea. On a personal note I too have attended about three social events (Weddings) when the madam and I were the only two black guests (I blame her as they were friends of hers) but this was in Canada and there is only so much I know about hockey. That soiree along the West Coast in Bim has an almost 60’s vibe, not a Barbados of the 21st century where even Pickwick have Black players.
I restate the points I made earlier about why the case continues to resonate among Bajans, imagine a social setting in Barbados in 2017 where the guests are all white and the “help” is all black.
Hal Austin August 5, 2018 10:53 AM
Yes Hal, I have been obliged to provide character references quite often in my professional career, and they were all substantive and cited evidence beyond what a simply CV reading would provide.
Caswell
Come to think of it, I may have received the request for a Police Certificate of Character in the offer letter, after the interview.
Given my experience I can’t see an employer with 6,500 employees, an HR department and employment policies not requiring a Police Certificate of Character … but maybe things have changed and Unions have been able to convert employers to the thinking that such an imposition is an invasion of privacy!!
Is GEL unionized in Barbados?
You should question your source and determine how much trust you can put in the story or if it is just gossip which you are spreading.
David Mr Blogmaster, presumably you refer to my @Are-We note above…my point was simply: @PLT opened himself to the type broadside (and worst) evidenced from @Hal desoite his earlier open admission of knowing Herbert.
When it was suggested that PLT should have made these remarks from the beginning, in his own words he framed how obzocky it was and will be seen. He said: “However my paranoia made me feel too vulnerable at that point.”
However, let’s not make the gentleman the focus of this case as he is merely a fan like the rest of us who just happened to catch the game ball and is on full glare of the cameras at thevmoment ..he has absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the game.
What is much more TROUBLING is that a sitting senator continues to make very carefully nuanced remarks implicating the (or) executive officer (s) of a leading Bajan company of drug smuggling (‘the Columbian run’, WTbad word).
Are we playing games or is this BU prattle the initiation of the largest scandal in the entire region in our lifetime..is Scotland Yard and Interpol involved here yet on this!
We doing one foolish innuendo chat and @Pieces and the senator on a totally different and very calamitous wave length…seems to me! That is my final point.
@Sargeant August 5, 2018 10:58 AM
“… imagine a social setting in Barbados in 2017 where the guests are all white and the “help” is all black.”
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Such social settings are depressingly commonplace in today’s Barbados. Even when there are a smattering of melanin faces the socioeconomic stratification is such that the fundamentally evil history that has built Barbados is just as apparent.
@PLT,
When I say Barbados is a failed state, some people come our howling. Let us take a step back: tree people were charged with drug smuggling, after a delay of about four days. Under the rule of law, which all civilised societies and their citizens adhere to, one the three men had been charged the matter became sub judice. The outcome should have been left to the courts and a jury of their peers.
Instead, we got the keyboard warriors expressing view on their innocence and guilt.
Of course, the case has raised some interesting issues, such as bail policy in Barbados. But none of this has inhibited the warriors. Throughout it all, there has not been a single word said by the attorney general, warning the press and online blogs, not a word from the bar association, not a word from any of the senior lawyers involved in the case. In short, there has been a break down in the rue of law.
Further to this, we have had @PLT telling us that in his opinion his old sixth form mate of 40 years ago could not be guilty, he is too intelligent and rich; in other words, a BA in mathematics and an actuarial qualification makes him too bright, and presumably PLT is his accountant or bank manager.
We are in 2018 and PLT is behaving like a field negro, a watchman, a house domestic – it is the same psychology that encourages a non-Barbadian Syrian to take two black men to an employee’s home to recover alleged stolen property. Slavery has inflicted such damage on us that it will take centuries to remove. A few A levels and a degree from an insignificant Canadian university cannot remove these flaws.
For the record, British companies now refuse to give detailed references for former employees, apart from the factual details of length of service and duties.
What is more important is that a listed company like GEL can keep a chairman in position given the shadow of criminality hanging over his head. He should have been suspended (nothing to do with innocence or guilt), failing which he should have been sacked. Same with the Social Partnership, if he has an official position.
GEL clients should be asking questions about what is going on in the company; the Barbados Stock Exchange should also be; and major shareholders in the company should also be concerned about its reputational damage, if any. In the meantime I hope he does not attend his office.
I hope on Wednesday morning, before 10am, the media will be out in force to record Mr Herbert attending the police station to sign the book.
peterlawrencethompson
August 5, 2018 11:20 AM
@Sargeant August 5, 2018 10:58 AM
“… imagine a social setting in Barbados in 2017 where the guests are all white and the “help” is all black.”
+++++++++++++++++++
Such social settings are depressingly commonplace in today’s Barbados. Even when there are a smattering of melanin faces the socioeconomic stratification is such that the fundamentally evil history that has built Barbados is just as apparent.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The two of you all are joking, right?
You two must be living on Mars!!
Many functions have “white” bartenders and other help!!
I know some very well!!
Some businesses who do catering are “white” owned and like all sensible employers (black or white) they also pitch in to keep costs down!!
A job is a job and people got to mek a living … once the pay is fair!!
… Caswell might represent some of the help too!!
You will probably find all “black” help in the Hotel settings ….. where Unions are present also!!
Hal Austin August 5, 2018 11:24 AM
When you say Barbados is a failed state I pay absolutely no mind, because my efforts to make Barbados better take up all of my attention.
I invite you to re-read everything that I have written since the matter became sub judice. You will find that I have said nothing that can be interpreted as interference with due process and the integrity of our judicial and law enforcement system. Others have alleged police incompetence, police corruption, and all sorts of other official malfeasance, but not I. I have said nothing to bring the process into disrepute. We have even seen broad allegations that GEL is itself a drug smuggling organization, but I have not dignified those speculations with a reply.
I have been candid and respectful of all, making absolutely no accusations of guilt directed at any party or individual. Indeed my openness and candour have made me the subject of unpleasant insinuations and accusations, your’s among them. Your nasty insults are of no consequence at all to me. You sit in the UK and deride Barbados as a failed state. I returned from a comfortable and successful life in Canada to help make Barbados better. When I see you back here working hard to do the same then maybe something you say can be taken seriously.
Like DpD, I have been trying to make a last comment
@PLT: responding to Hal is like chasing a rabbit down the rabbit hole. Hal probably has a next post in the queue, which will be released after you reply to the one above. Let Hal chase his own tail. Don’t feed his ego.
PLT
My nasty insults? Unpleasant insinuations? I have said that you cannot give a reasonable character reference for someone you went to school with 40 years ago. And references to his integrity, intelligence and wealth are irrelevant since they imply that intelligent and wealthy people do not (cannot possibly?) commit crimes, especially if they went to Harrison College and obtained a Barbados Exhibition. Nonsense. Are you familiar with so-called white-collar crimes?
If you want to call that an unpleasant insinuation or a nasty insult – no apology from me. I call it discussion.
Hal Austin August 5, 2018 11:58 AM
“My nasty insults? Unpleasant insinuations?”
“We are in 2018 and PLT is behaving like a field negro, a watchman, a house domestic – it is the same psychology that encourages a non-Barbadian Syrian to take two black men to an employee’s home to recover alleged stolen property. Slavery has inflicted such damage on us that it will take centuries to remove. A few A levels and a degree from an insignificant Canadian university cannot remove these flaws.”
++++++++++++++++++++
QED
@Sarge
The JG case had a large social media following, prior to the mainstream getting involved. You may recall JG was a CBC Canada employee, host of their #1 rated show Q. It was after he was suspended/fired the media circus really erupted. The mainstream Bajan media either do not have the info they need or have elected not to broadcast.
Have you ever been involved with a man/woman whose sole intention is to play mind games with you. Whilst you are trying to build a relationship, they sit and figure out what are your buttons, which buttons to push and when to push them.
So you are always one-step behind as they push their buttons, you try to rectify the situation and when you surface a next butto has been pushed.
Don’t play or engage in mind games. As long as you play, you are not winning; your opponent sole object is to keep you playing.
“A few A levels and a degree from an insignificant Canadian university cannot remove these flaws.”
Hey..I take offence that, UW is better than anything you ever attended and you are living proof.
@Hal Austin
Much respect. You have him bagged and tagged.
I dun…. Looks like you bagged and tagged me also.
“We are all part of the story, because the story is not about several hundred pounds of weed, but about several hundred years of history.”
Add to that the fact that it it vey difficult to build fixtures of a boat around marijuana but it is a breeze do to so with cocaine..lol
@Northern Observer
Yes, check the timelines for the 3S and Cahill stories, social media ran with it first, it is only when it blew up traditional media was forced to cover. It took the Nation a couple days to carry the Ecstasy story in its entirety including CBC.
@Blogmaster
Certainly there was initial confusion of those on board. After PLT posted the pic of the drugs, I was even more confused, you will appreciate the Deputy GEL chair and Mr. Prescod have the same initials, WP. There was also a JH and JG. I think 3 is the established number aboard for the trip.
The chatter about “other crew” seems to refer to a group whose job it was to unload the boat of items for the journey but which did not stay aboard permanently. Extra diesel in drums, sails, tools, food etc Apparently ‘cannabis’ wasn’t on the offload list….lol. This boat does not venture beyond Bajan waters very often. Less if it were not for the unavailability of maintaining facilities in B’dos.
PLT
There is a collective psychology – the same one that has people queuing up to be hangmen, or beating little boys for stealing sugar cane from a plantation, or a black police officer in a white society beating black suspects more violently than his white colleagues do, etc –
“I have never said that “it could never, ever be Herbert.” I have simply said that I don’t think he was part of this particular cannabis importation scheme. It’s just my opinion, and I been fairly explicit about the factors that have led me to form such an opinion.” (Quote)
I know it is just an opinion, but is it an informed opinion, or one based on a 40-year experience, or one based on a free sailing trip one afternoon?
You do not know the facts, as I do not, so let due process take its course. Don’t try to re-direct public sentiment. This is exactly what differentiated the field workers from the domestics. What was it Cohen said about Trump? He would give his life for him, or something to that effect.
You can say the person you knew as a school boy would not have done such a thing; or you are surprised that he is accused of such a crime, or anything along those lines.
I compared such behaviour to the two men that the Syrian allegedly kidnapped the woman and took her to her home to recover allegedly stolen property. It is an example of an employee having such confidence in his employer that he could not do any wrong; or, that they were prepared to do wrong if asked to by a trusted employer.
As to your degree, I am impressed with knowledge, not degrees. I withdraw calling your university insignificant, I should have said minor.
@Norther Observer
Two bits of coherent information missing from the public discussion are:
1/ Adrian More and his employ at Redland given his skirmish with the law as reported by the Nation.
2/Under what circumstances was Prescod employed at GEL for all the reasons mentioned in this space.
Yes. And I will add
A) when, where and at what point in the proceedings did the Coast Guard board the vessel, and where were the crew members at that time?
3 have been arrested and charged, are others involved?
@Northern observer
Jeff gave us the bareface application of the law as it relates to possession by those present on the boat, however, it is understood that with a haul of the amount reported other factors will have to be considered.
Yes the confirmation to what you mentioned will weigh with the court, the blogmaster is more concerned however with addressing the court of public opinion with the information that is not relevant to the legal matter at hand. Surely the gatekeepers of this info can release it to fill the speculation hole.
@HAustin, (as this is a note on process rather than the matter directly I allowed myself to return 🤣)….
Ok senor you are either getting senile or as @Theo suggested simply here to push buttons and be unnecessarily demeaning.
I certainly recall you having the discussion with @PLT previously re his opinion on his school association with Herbert. He clarified the matter explicitely then….Yet above you return to the matter with renewed vitriol .
What right do you have talking of filed workers and domestics…you sir leave a lot to be desired on decency and professional conduct.
So are you going senile or just a mean, button pushing .#$@%&… this was the previous exchange five days ago…that you returned to this AGAIN as if brand new suggests your memory is faulty or otherwise not a lot of good about your character!
@Hal Austin July 30, 2018 10:54 AM
“@PLT was at school with Charles Herbert in the 1970s. He thinks his support is loyalty; it is really stupidity.”
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No, it’s not loyalty. I was at Kolij at the same time as Herbert, but I have always though of that school as a corrupt, decadent, and deeply destructive institution. […] My personal belief that Herbert is not guilty of the criminal wrongdoing with which he is charged has nothing to do with loyalty to him or school tie. Neither is it “support,” Herbert has no need of my support and my support is of no consequence. My belief is simply my opinion. ”
We all enjoy the turbulent cut n thrust of debate but in good form and taste…you apparently not!
These beasts refuse to acknowledge the swinging of the pendulum, but they will be forced to.
Given all the employment legislation in existence and of the unions, labour department etc my guess is that caterers will operate on a bare bones staff …. the chief cook and bottlewasher and some staff to help prepare the food.
When they appear at the functions they cater it is probably only the food they bring.
Most of the help arrives on its own and are not employees, apart from the few who prepared the food and will now double as helpers.
The chief cook and bottlewasher will also be a helper if required, will circulate and listen to the feedback and perhaps pick up another job and will keep an eye to make sure the helpers don’t help themselves.
How do caterers to various social functions get their help for the functions they cater?
I suspect by referrals.
And how do the referrals work?
School friends, buddies from work whatever.
The help will probably have day jobs and are just looking to make a buck or they are helping out a relative or friend.
The help at the hotels, probably all black, will probably be employed by the hotel, pay NIS/Payee on their weekly wage and give a cut to their union.
All colours and classes moonlight, sometimes you will also find hotel staff at functions on their off night!!
Supporting the NIS/Payee and their unions is a costly affair!!
@Peter
You may be the best person to share an opinion why Ecstasy as an asset of GEL seems to be under the management of a person with a prison record. We need to have this clarified in the court of public opinion.
I thought the captain was Chris Rogers and the deck hand was Mr. Prescod.
If the boat was sailed down to Grenada for repairs where it remained for 2 months, it would have been under the control of the boatyard in Grenada once it was handed over.
No need for a captain, deckhand … or a cook in dry dock.
That might have been where the alleged video footage was shot … and when the drugs were hidden.
The boatyard will probably have its own security as it will be responsible for peoples’ boats when they are handed over to them to maintain.
Might explain the Grenada Police and the video.
Bajans can’t even begin to understand the tradition of boat building that exists in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, obviously Grenada too!
@John
Think big, why was Prescod employee. What is his job description.
…. and if you think roofs require a lot of maths … boats require a lot more … several orders of magnitudes!!!
This is the point John, what was Prescod hired to do, sweep the deck, be a guard, give an exconvict a job, what.
They were fishing boats builders around Six Mens Bay/Clinkettes…..
Has this skill/trade been lost? Nationwide?
You see how the boatyard operates, the only boatyard we have in Barbados has in no boats!!
PTL Aug 5th 2018
As we were disembarking Herbert said to let him know if I ever wanted to go along on the trip down south or back up from maintenance to just give him a call; they were always short of crew because the trip back, in particular, was upwind and there were not a lot of folk who considered 40 hours of being wet and seasick and sleep deprived to be a holiday. I told him that if had had the time on my hands I certainly would.
question
How do u know for sure Herbert was speaking{or inviting} you to be on this particular trip,
@David August 5, 2018 2:04 PM
I do not have any particular insight into why or to what extent Ecstasy as a GEL asset was under the management of Mr. Prescod. I do know that in a well governed corporation a director would not intervene in a matter that is the responsibility of professional HR staff. I’m also reasonably confident that in Bajan companies such interventions by directors into staff responsibilities are commonplace.
Would be interesting if we could make an inventory of the skills/trades present in Barbados in 1958 and 2016.
Would love to see the changes.
What have we lost?
What have we gained?
What is the impact of these losses and gains on Barbados as a nation?
Your last statement is correct. A good example are summer jobs often an opportunity for the family and friends of seniors to secure valuable work experience and dollars.
@TheOGazerts
There must be a relationship between the decline in the local fishing industry and the art of boat repair? Cannot view it in a vacuum.
Mariposa August 5, 2018 2:40 PM
“How do u know for sure Herbert was speaking{or inviting} you to be on this particular trip,”
++++++++++++++++
He was inviting me on this year or any other of the annual trips the boat made to Grenada for maintenance.
@ Pieceundertherock
The case of the attempted murder of Nazzim Blackett of the Pine by the Royal Barbados Police Force and the murder by suicide of the other young man whose name i dont have, while he was in the police care, AND THE FACT THAT NEITHER MATTER HAS BEEN SOLVED, should she’d some light on the competencies of our police force.
The fact that Peter Thompson can come on a blog and said that accusations has been made as it relates to the Police tells me that he is a farce and cares not about his fellow men as he proclaims.
Policemen in Barbados without refute have been involved in thousands of beatings, and some murders one you have highlighted above, a second when the young Rasta guy who I believed was an engineer was murdered and ended up over a cliff.
What makes Peter Thompson think that he is accurate because of information given by members of the same CORRUPT and LAWLESS Barbados Police Force?
The fact that he rode on the Ecstasy Yacht prior and was given an invitation by Charles Herbert for down the island sojourn, in reading ALL his submissions I am left only of the view this guy is a joker and an Uncle Tom.
PLT stop telling people you are for Black Empowerment, I believe you are more an Opportunist.
Caswell keep the information flowing I believe that you are exposing some of the hidden skeletons.
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.