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Barbados Association Of Professional Engineers And The ABC Highway

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Submitted by BU Family Member

Artist Impression Of The Proposed Flyover At A Roundabout In Barbados

Do the light poles look any different now from those on any section of the highway?

(BAPE said the lightpole bases “looked small” 😉

Does the island in the Belle still look too far out in the road now the road is completed?

(Another BAPE point)

Now that the wells that were planned uphill from the Haggatt Hall area are in place, is there still water “sheeting” across the road?

(BAPE jumped to a wonderful evaluation on an incomplete project)

Now that we STILL have backups at the roundabouts is BAPE willing to admit that flyovers just MAY be warranted?

Its beginning to look more and more like the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers was either

(1) playing politics itself,

(2) being used to further others political ends or

(3) just didn’t know what they were talking about!

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Owen Arthur Infers Local Barbadian Engineers Are B-Class

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449 responses to “Barbados Association Of Professional Engineers And The ABC Highway”

  1. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    I think this government should show some maturity and do a thorough investigation about the flyovers before acting headstrong. They have already won the gov’t, now put country first before it cost anyother administration dearly to correct their arrogant decision. I personnally don’t like the flyovers but if it is necessary, do it.

  2. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    They have already won the gov’t, now put country first before it cost anyother administration dearly to correct their arrogant decision.
    ——————————————-
    Unfortunately they dont seemed to have realised this as yet.
    Maybe they dont have the money to make the flyovers now , thanks to the dedicated and expensive delaying tactics of the civil servants involved in
    the relevant ministry.
    They now have to find a way out of the impasse that they find themselves in.
    Cuhdear ………
    Strange how they terminate on set of contractors ( for no valid reason at all) and immediately engage another.

  3. Fairplay Avatar
    Fairplay

    I am puzzled now.
    Why would the government employ another contractor having terminated one group for no apparent reason?
    Who are Nash Lovell and Dave Scanterbury?
    Why is the road not finished yet?
    Work seems to have slowed down dramatically since July.

  4. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    You may well ask- Bape didnt!
    No worry about who tendered what etc etc.
    Nash Lovell- Runs MPT

    Real aim to delay and destroy the Flyover project as a political move against the past administration.

    Dave Scanterbury- underling of the above .
    Does his bidding in all things.

  5. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    In answer to your last question Fairplay
    I have no idea why the road is taking so long to complete. Again you have to refer the above gentlemen.
    They will of course deny all responsibility but now are at somewhat at a loss to know who to who exactly to blame.
    Meanwhile the end of the road laying is in sight ( so’s Christmas it will be interesting to see which arrives first)
    Bape has already shut up and closed down for the vacation as far as the road is concerned all their anxieties about safety etc have all faded away……….
    Bape have you noticed how dangerous the Wildey round the houses route is?
    In order to turn around to the right ( by the Texeco station) to go north you have to merge with traffic coming from the left .
    But its too tight and narrow a turn to do this hence the jams and danger of collision – right next to a GAZ station.
    Could make things go with a bang……

  6. permres Avatar
    permres

    I agree with you the road around the Texaco needs widening, ru4real, but there are two lanes now, after it. Merging takes place down the straight, not at the junction. Plenty of “Learn to Drive” websites show this clearly, so there is no need to stop at the junction. Slow down, stay in your lane, MIM (mirror, indicate, manouvre – British School of Motoring 1960) on the straight. It’s called merging.

    Of course large lorries and buses will need both lanes, but we all know about that for many years, don’t we?

  7. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Of course large lorries and buses will need both lanes, but we all know about that for many years, don’t we?
    ——————————————–
    Well its been pointed out enough times but MPT and Bape are too busy playing politics to worry about practical truths.
    The road is narrowest at the junction meaning someone has to stop.
    They have to get into the two lanes before they can merge .
    Its hard enough to make the corner in a an average size car.
    Lorries and buses just swing into the other lane.
    Merging a simple maneuvere in itself does not come naturally to us Bajans.

  8. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Permres if Barbados is following the British School of Motoring rules why has MPT in all its combined wisdom decided to vary the rules along the new ABC highway in direct opposition to the advice of the former contractors?
    Here American rules apply which effectively mean no rules – passing on either side hogging of what would be the over taking lane by slow drivers etc etc

  9. anon Avatar
    anon

    ru4real Bizzy and friends,

    What’s the plan at BET junction where all lanes go south? Are lanes going to stay that way with traffic criss crossing to get from Upton to town and to get from Carters to Sobers roundabout? Talk me through that. Call your nemesis Nash and Dave if you must.

  10. permres Avatar
    permres

    ru4real, I only cited the BSM to acknowledge the fact that the mnemonic MIM is theirs, not mine. I did not want to plagiarize! It is not a rule, it is used when they are instructing learners as a guide to safe driving. I agree, once we have passed our test, many of us ignore, not just these guides, but many of the laws as well!

    I suppose one could argue that if new manoeuvres are too demanding to learn, then we should not design our roads which require them (e.g. merging at the Bell junction). And then do we need highways and flyovers at all? Richard Hoad said he was not going to merge at the Bell, he would always stop and wait!!

    I remember learning to merge in the UK after I had passed my test (1960). this was when I first went onto the then new mtorways. The marks on the motorways now to assist merging, and the big signs above warning of merging traffic ahead, are really quite something.

  11. permres Avatar
    permres

    anon, I drew this for BU:

    http://bajan.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/barbados-underground-commenter-makes-suggestion-to-improve-traffic-congestion-at-wildey-triangle-barbados/

    I hope the link works.

  12. permres Avatar
    permres

    I am bringing this blog back to the top of the recent comments pile, as I wonder whether or not my diagram has been taken on board by whoever is in control of this project. Perhaps I should request some sort of acknowledgement, better still, payment!?

  13. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    @Permres

    Your diagram illustrates how sharp is the corner by Texaco – there is no comparison to the merging at the Bell junction where there is easy vision of oncoming traffic and a smooth and long lane in which to achieve merging.
    Re Payment apply to MPT or the new contractors you never know your luck.: )

  14. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    @ anon

    Cant think why you are asking me.
    NASH and DAVE yes I like it – great for a comedy duo- will see you right.

  15. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    @ anon

    Cant think why you are asking me.
    NASH and DAVE yes I like it – great for a comedy duo- will see you right.

  16. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Seen in the Nation
    A Mr Grantley Vaughn has a solution-
    ‘the solution I offer involves the planning, design and construction of significant highway structures and their long term maintenance’.

    Wonder what they might be?

  17. me Avatar
    me

    permres // November 10, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    anon, I drew this for BU:

    http://bajan.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/barbados-underground-commenter-makes-suggestion-to-improve-traffic-congestion-at-wildey-triangle-barbados/

    I hope the link works.
    ………………………………………………………..
    Thx link works. Your flow means all lanes between Cable and Wireless and Shell Station are for south bound traffic. No more criss crossing. How are we Upton people getting to town?

  18. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    The obvious solution to the Wildey/Upton junction was /is a flyover.

  19. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @ru4real: “The obvious solution to the Wildey/Upton junction was /is a flyover.”

    This is certainly the most expensive solution.

    The most logical? Only for idiots…

  20. bushtea Avatar
    bushtea

    For the last time ru4real, the problem with ‘obvious’ solutions is that the ‘obviousness’ varies depending on the hidden agendas of the many various parties.

    It may be obvious to you that you will make a few million dollars easy if this option is pursued.

    It may be obvious to me that when it is all done and you have your euros stashed away (I understand wanna fellows done with the US$ thing nowadays….LOL) we will still be waiting in vain – albeit some of us elevated.

    …and it may be obvious to some others that we just can’t afford to waste any more money in these difficult times.

    So Mr. ru4real, the business-like and transparent way to deal with such challenges is to carry out a proper engineering study (done by a professional INDEPENDENT firm) which assesses all the various options and DEMONSTRATES the best economic and practical path. -and takes ethical responsibility for the results.

    …can you possibly now see what the problem is with the ABC?????

    PEOPLE WITH OBVIOUS SOLUTIONS…. like Bizzy and You.

    ….but somehow I do not expect you (nor Bizzy) to see it….lol

  21. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    This is certainly the most expensive solution.

    The most logical? Only for idiots…
    ———————————————-
    No the most expensive option is doing what you are doing now.
    The wrong thing
    Spending loads of money and still not having a SOLUTION to the traffic problem.

  22. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    So Mr. ru4real, the business-like and transparent way to deal with such challenges is to carry out a proper engineering study (done by a professional INDEPENDENT firm) which assesses all the various options and DEMONSTRATES the best economic and practical path. -and takes ethical responsibility for the results.
    ——————————————
    Yes MR BT
    and that is exactly what you had
    An independent firm (3S) that showed you the best options for the best price.
    It demonstrated all the options and backed them up with comprehensive, professional traffic studies.
    It gave professional proven solutions
    But then MPT had to sabotage that in the name of political shenanigans .
    So what do you have now?
    An expensive road widening project that still isn’t finished .
    And you still have the same traffic problem.
    But you know who to thank MR NASH LOVELL and his team at MPT
    Good job done.
    Blustering MR BT will not distract from the fact that the people of Barbados now have to pay for the results of this stupidity
    They will have to pay but still wont have a solution to the traffic problem

    The most sensible SOLUTION is and was flyovers.

    And whats more everyone is getting wised up to the fact.

    Wised up to the fact that MPT has deliberately wrecked a sound and feasible solution to the traffic problem,
    and at the same time wasted public money.

  23. The Scout Avatar
    The Scout

    It seems cricket world cup would come around again and this highway would still be unfinished. I realise that the new idea still causing long lines at round-abouts. Much ado about nothing. from the time that highway started many years ago, politics was sabbataging it, and we tax payers has to pay for this political bickering. NONSENSE.

  24. General Lee Avatar
    General Lee

    Why is there congestion at the roundabouts?

    While waiting to enter the roundabout we can see that our intended exit is blocked, with traffic at a standstill, instead of allowing drivers coming from our left, who might want to go straight or turn right to proceed, we drive into the roundabout and block their paths.

    We cannot accept that while having the “right of way”, some drivers coming from our left, instead of going through the roundabout, turn left and get in front of us.

    Since we are such inconsiderate drivers, maybe the powers that be should install traffic lights and cameras at the roundabouts, get rid of jambuster, designate the right lane for turning right, the left for turning left and then have two centre lanes for going straight.

    When traffic is at a standstill in a particular direction, all drivers wishing to proceed in said direction will be held up by the lights until there is an improvement.

  25. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Are you for real- ru4real?
    Which part of ‘independent’ do you fail to get?

    Only you would see nothing wrong with 3S doing the ‘study’ (which recommends that we use their bridges), getting the contract without tender; having no peer review (running from BAPE and town hall meetings) and then raising the price of the project at their whim.

    I really feel sorry for you…

  26. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Bush Tea you for real? You feel sorry for ru4real? I feel sorry for me as a tax payer and a road user who has to pay for that crap and still stuck in traffic jams.

  27. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Bush Tea

    If you a professional in they will give you their advice. ( they will also charge you for it advice does not come free)

    3S gave a professional SOLUTION and it has proven to be the correct SOLUTION as anyone can see.

    No one has given a better SOLUTION to the traffic problem.

    3S stated all along that widening the road would NOT solve the traffic problem.

    Now you dont need a professional any Tom Dick or Harry and their grandmothers can tell you this.

    Any amount of crap talk about more traffic lights etc is only that .

    Tome Dick , Harry and their grandmothers AND their dogs know that more traffic lights will cause more jams.

    Keep doing the same old crap and you will have the same old crap.

    The proof is in the pudden’
    You still have the jams .

    So you get your ‘independent’ profession in and when he tells you you need flyovers you can tell him that you know better !

    O shucks forgot you already did that!

  28. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Wait ….Anonymous, you read that last comment from ru4real? tell me the truth – you ain’t feel sorry for him too?
    That is easily the most pathetic, sorry, lame comment that I have ever read.( and this is including Bajan-in-exile-husband’s contributions LOL)

    It reminds me of a primary school student arguing that her daddy is better than someone else’s daddy….

    It really amazes me that these people could steal millions through the prison, the oil terminal, greenland, the NHC building, endless other projects and scams – and this ru4real person can’t get over the fact that his flyover scheme was aborted by the blogs…. anybody would think that a little loss of 20 or 30 million could affect ru4real.

    GROW UP and take your loss like a man do!!

  29. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Bush Tea you got me vex! Feel sorry for ru4real? He pretend he never hear about engineering project design process. What loss ru4real had to take? You must mean that the profit was not as great as expected! or was ru4real’s money to be made on the steel work for the flyover? Some people want locking up for the ABC scam.

  30. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    and this ru4real person can’t get over the fact that his flyover scheme was aborted by the blogs….
    ——————————————

    Yes BU or Bush Tea whatever you like to go under you can take pride in that .
    Yes you have helped to sabotage the
    ideal SOULTION to Barbados traffic problem.
    Take pride in the fact that you have caused your fellow bajans to sit frying in the traffic jams when the SOLUTION was withing their grasp.
    Be proud
    Go and give NASH LOVELL a pat on the back too he cant be left out of the congratulations.
    People need to know who to thank while they sweat in the jams.

  31. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    To those who seem to think that they have done something to be proud of :-

    You have done your country a grave disservice .

    I trust that your political masters make it worth your while.

    A few years hence people will look back and say who were those idiots who stopped the flyover project ?

    Why did they do this?

    Who paid them to sabotage a government project?

    A project that was /is the correct SOLUTION to the Traffic problem and a benefit to all the people in the country.

    Yes questions will be asked .

  32. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    And crap sticks.
    When you get your professional – has to be from outside – he will think twice before he takes on a project for a government whose track record includes illegally reneging on contracts.
    Barbados has to go forward with vision and integrity not backward into banana republic territory.

  33. Bush tea Avatar
    Bush tea

    ru4real, the only regret is that we were unable to stop the other big scams – like the Greenland multi million dollar scam, the prison rip-off, the oil terminal madness, and the road widening sweets that 3S enjoyed before being fired.

    Not in years to come -but ALREADY SENSIBLE BAJANS are thankful that the folly has ended.
    BU, BAPE and BT should get a national award don’t you think ru4real? … and some of your friends should join Jippy..

    …by the way, why you don’t shut up and let people think that you smart… you can’t see the difference between David and Bush Tea? David is a peacemaker…. Bush tea don’t want no peace, he want justice….

  34. David Avatar
    David

    Continue to be amazed that ru4real seems fixated with flyovers as a solution and any and all questions about the suspect tendering/bidding process is totally discounted.

  35. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    @David

    You STILL Have a traffic problem

    You DONT have a SOLUTION.

    You also chose to ignore the sabotage of a government project by a government Ministry.

    Thereby costing the country and taxpayers of Barbados thousands of dollars in order to further their political ends.

    All you can do is introduce RED HERRINGS.

    The facts are

    The most sensible SOLUTION was offered and accepted by the previous administration.

    The MPT chose amend the original design and concept to a costly road widening enterprise in order to increase costs in order to embarrass the BLP government.

    No thought at all was given to the inconvenience and huge increase in cost to the tax payers in doing this.

    Just a political gambit it worked .

    Distorting the facts will not make the TRUTH go away.

    That a Goverment Department put its political ambitions ABOVE the well being and REGARDLESS of the cost to the people of Barbados.

  36. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    BU, BAPE and BT should get a national award don’t you think ru4real? …
    ——————————————

    LOL BU
    Everyone knows the its the REWARDS not the AWARDS that self seeking people are after.But you certainly deserve something .

    Is there a National Award for stupidity?

  37. permres Avatar
    permres

    me, I only just got back to this thread.

    The idea in my diagram is that it shows a large triangular roundabout, so lane-crossings from Upton into town is OK.
    I agree, in heavy traffic (rush hours) there would be hold-ups, as there are at all roundabouts throughout the world. Often this is helped by temporary lights controlling the flow of traffic onto the roundabout.

  38. permres Avatar
    permres

    General Lee, “sin bins” are areas marked out on the road. The rule is not to enter unless one’s exit is clear. If caught stationary in one, a traffic cop can fine you on the spot, and they are marked on roundabouts as well as many junctions in towns.

    Of course, the real problem is too many cars on too little road space. Perhaps we should just pave over the whole island?

    Better still, improve public transport, restrict access of private cars into urban areas, stagger work times and school times to reduce rush hour congestion.

    So easy, and not very costly.

  39. me Avatar
    me

    Thanks pemres!

    John Boyce getting on my nerves with his parrot nonsense of thanking Bajans for their tolerance on never ending ABC work. Just get it done and shut up already Boyce.

    They pave then dig up same stretches so frequently makes you wonder if a moron in charge of planning. ABC becoming a larger parking lot than it was before widening.

    ru4real formerly known as Bizzy (Mike Williams or Al?) has a point about functionality of flyovers even though his position is driven by selfishness.

  40. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    They pave then dig up same stretches so frequently makes you wonder if a moron in charge of planning. ABC becoming a larger parking lot than it was before widening.
    ——————————————-
    What planning what?
    Bape where are you?

  41. Nostradamus Avatar
    Nostradamus

    @ru4real
    “The MPT chose amend the original design and concept to a costly road widening enterprise in order to increase costs in order to embarrass the BLP government.”

    The flyovers could have been done without widening the road?

  42. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @ru4real… I suspect the following is going to be too difficult for you to accept…

    But, please, imagine that you’re best interests align with those you advise…

    If I was so advising, I would observe that “roundabouts” introduce the classic “prisoners dilemma” problem… (Fundamental game theory — if you don’t know of it; Google same.)

    IMHO, we don’t need to spend 80 million to “solve” this problem; we simply need some discipline…

    (Read: Don’t enter a roundabout unless you *know* you can exit immediately.)

    Or, ru4real, do we need to spend 80 million, in order to create a two lane parking lot?

  43. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @All… Sorry, I missed something…

    By spending $80 million on “fly-overs”, we would eliminate the “prisoner’s dilemma”. However, we would not (IMHO) eliminate the two-lane parking lot on the highway because of the limited capacity of the feeders into Bridgetown…

    What the fly-overs would facilitate, however, is quick passage of traffic from our airport to the West Coast (for all but one or two hours out of every day)…

    Hummm… So the rich get to travel from the airport to the West Coast without interruption or delay…

    What’s $80 million between friends?

  44. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    @Nostradamous

    “The MPT chose amend the original design and concept to a costly road widening enterprise in order to increase costs in order to embarrass the BLP government.”

    The flyovers could have been done without widening the road?
    —————————————–
    Yes the road need only have been widened at the base of the overpass.

  45. Nostradamus Avatar
    Nostradamus

    @ru4rea

    What would be the length of road that would have to be widened at the base of each side of the overpass?

    Also remind me how many overpasses were to be constructed.

  46. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    What would be the length of road that would have to be widened at the base of each side of the overpass?
    ——————————————–
    This depends on the elevation of the overpass. If it is a steeper gradient /incline it will be shorter and need less area of widening.
    But not much just enough to safely access and exit the ramps and allow for merging.
    ————————————–

    Also remind me how many overpasses were to be constructed.
    ———————————
    I believe the original number was five.

  47. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Chris Halsall
    ‘
    What the fly-overs would facilitate, however, is quick passage of traffic from our airport to the West Coast (for all but one or two hours out of every day)…

    Hummm… So the rich get to travel from the airport to the West Coast without interruption or delay…’
    ———————————————–

    Are you saying that all the road users going up and down the ABC highway on a daily basis are ‘rich’?
    I think that you will find that the great majority are ordinary working citizens going to their place of employment or to school.

  48. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    IMHO, we don’t need to spend 80 million to “solve” this problem; we simply need some discipline…
    ————————————–
    Where will you get that from : )

  49. permres Avatar
    permres

    ru4real, of course a de-congested road will be used by those for whom it was not intended, even if it does mean a greater distance to travel. And as long as they are permitted (i.e. make it a private road!?) But the ABC does nothing to de-congest the feeder roads in and out of Bridgetown, no matter how it is constructed.

  50. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @ru4real: “Where will you get that [discipline] from : )

    Easy…

    Amend the traffic laws to make it an offence to enter a roundabout without being able to exit immediately. Apply a, let’s say, $400 fine for doing so.

    Have police officers stationed at the roundabouts during rush hours. Have them hand out tickets to anyone who enter into the roundabout and then stop, blocking other traffic trying to pass through the roundabout to a non-congested exit.

    Problem solved. $80 million not expended.

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