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Barbados Association Of Professional Engineers And The ABC Highway

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Submitted by BU Family Member

Artist Impression Of The Proposed Flyover At A Roundabout In Barbados

Do the light poles look any different now from those on any section of the highway?

(BAPE said the lightpole bases “looked small” 😉

Does the island in the Belle still look too far out in the road now the road is completed?

(Another BAPE point)

Now that the wells that were planned uphill from the Haggatt Hall area are in place, is there still water “sheeting” across the road?

(BAPE jumped to a wonderful evaluation on an incomplete project)

Now that we STILL have backups at the roundabouts is BAPE willing to admit that flyovers just MAY be warranted?

Its beginning to look more and more like the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers was either

(1) playing politics itself,

(2) being used to further others political ends or

(3) just didn’t know what they were talking about!

Related Link

Owen Arthur Infers Local Barbadian Engineers Are B-Class

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449 responses to “Barbados Association Of Professional Engineers And The ABC Highway”

  1. David Avatar
    David

    No we are not picking on BAPE, just asking questions!

  2. Someone said the 'BLP Stalwart' Avatar
    Someone said the ‘BLP Stalwart’

    Finally someone is touching a nerve and the truth. There can be no doubt that BAPE was possessed with an ulterior motive. It begs the level of professionalism exhibited especially on the premise that national interests would take precedence over myopic and narrow interests. One day we as Barbadians will all learn a simple truth, the last BLP administration was not perfect: but under Arthur they did a damn good job in putting the collective interest of Barbados first. To BAPE and all those with clandestine agendas, never become complacent because sooner or later, the truth will be made known.

  3. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    While we believe that this DLP Government had little choice but to fire 3S SRL and scrap the idea of building flyovers on the ABC, we are still concerned about the fact that the Prime Minister is so tardy in coming to the public of Barbados and telling them what the final designs of this project will look like; what the estimated final cost of expanding the relevant portions of the ABC Highway will be; and by what time it is likely that this expansion will finish.

    Indeed, those and more pertinent questions need to be promptly answered by the Prime Minister in relation to this money gobbling slow moving Operation Free Flow Project – which itself and some of effects so rightly proved to be an essential part of the undoing of the last, very wicked BLP Government.

    Nevertheless, the broad masses and middle classes of people of Barbados continue to be the victims of a political governmental system that foolishly allows one party to run the affairs of this country, when it ought to have been that a national coalitional Cabinet system of governance – involving elected members of parties, non-party political groups and independent political persons making up the Cabinet of Barbados – should have by now been implemented in this country, to help save the country from too much of the crude partisan political obstinacy and wilful sheepishness asociated with stark debacles like this Operation Free Flow Project.

    Moreso, we in PDC have already gone on public record as saying that – instead of expanding the ABC Highway – a modern effecient railway system should all like now be being installed on the existing Highway from the Airport to Warrens to Speightstown and back and from Warrens to Bridgetown and back.

    Surely, if Barbados must become a world class society these are the kinds of political and infrastructural undertakings that are needed to be undergone to help make this country a brighter and better place for all people and other entities in Barbados.

    PDC

  4. permres Avatar
    permres

    We have rush hours in Bridgetown, one in the morning, one in the evening. I have to agree that a flyover will ease the evening rush hour somewhat, because once through the roundabout one should be on a fairly open road out-of-town. In the mornings, however, since everyone is trying to get into Bridgetown at the same time they will quickly backup from the next stoppage after the roundabout.

    The problem at the moment is expense, and are we expecting more or less private cars on the roads in the future? Alternative solutions into Bridgetown in the mornings need to be found NOW, and Park ‘n Ride and staggered worktimes seem the most sensible in the immediacy. I do not think flyovers will ever be needed.

  5. Peltdownman Avatar
    Peltdownman

    Surely the problems with congestion at the roundabouts is not caused by the roundabouts. The very simple change in the rules at Hoserthal Turning has already had the effect of clearing congestion at the Waterford roundabout. Any backup there now is caused by inconsiderate parking or by road works. It always seemed crazy to me that a minor road took precedence over a major highway there. The solution at Warrens has to be found away from the roundabout, but the unbelievably bad planning there will make it difficult to alleviate the problem. At Bussa, the problem is with the entrance to International Mall, surely cheaper to fix than building a flyover. We have a habit in Barbados of building something new at great expense instead of fixing what is already there.

  6. art Avatar
    art

    Good morning. When one builds things like hositals and flyovers one is not mandated to presnet the plans at Town Hall Meetings and place them to tender?

    Be careful BU- the public is watching- some might be wondering whether the blogs are also becoming a conduit for government PR?

  7. John Avatar
    John

    I thought BAPE’s position was one which asked more fundamental questions like:

    What are the specifications?

    Where is the Engineering design to meet those specs?

    How much will it cost?

    Who tendered to provide the solution?

    How did the tenders match with the projected cost?

    One thing I did notice however was that the Barbados Government and 3S have parted company.

    Did I miss the answers to these questions or were they answered by the GOB?

    I need to look back on the Blogs and in the Nation Archives to see if my understanding of the questions BAPE asked is right.

    Maybe I got it wrong.

  8. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    I had stayed away from the rumblings of the naysayers to the flyovers, as they did not make any sense to me. My position was simple, I had seen similar congestion in Cape cod Massachusetts caused by a round about (rotary) to what was causing the congestion in Barbados. In Cape Cod flyovers were the answer, and i believe that flyovers would have been the answer in Barbados. Barbadians have a tendency to make the simple so complex that it becomes very difficult to determine fact from fiction. Whether it is the introduction of seat belts, flyovers, understanding the Kingsland estate affair, or determining the number of Guyanese in Barbados.

  9. Redds Avatar
    Redds

    In my gut I believe the flyovers will eventually be implemented and the 2 reasons below played a significant part

    (1) playing politics itself,

    (2) being used to further others political ends or

  10. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Redds // August 21, 2008 at 8:33 am

    In my gut I believe the flyovers will eventually be implemented and the 2 reasons below played a significant part

    (1) playing politics itself,

    (2) being used to further others political ends or
    =================================

    Redds i think the BLP had to go no matter what, but the flyover project was and still is good solution to traffic congestion at round abouts. I have in the past and will support its use no matter who or what impliments its. Of course it must be done by a company with a proven track record and within reasonable cost.

  11. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    Anyone who wants to read what BAPE actually said can go to their website:

    http://www.bape.org/media/press_room/ABC_Highway_Expansion_Project_Position_Paper.pdf

  12. John Avatar
    John

    (Another BAPE point)

    Now that the wells that were planned uphill from the Haggatt Hall area are in place, is there still water “sheeting” across the road?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    ………….. has an impact assessment on the Belle Pumping station been done now that the water at Haggat Hall has been so efficiently directed into the aquifer by these wells and no longer percolates through the coral cap?

    Are the Drainage Wells in a Zone one area?

    Just how close are they to a Zone one area?

    Just a thought.

  13. John Avatar
    John

    Inordinate haste was displayed in rushing to spend money on the ABC project without stopping and thinking through our transportation problems.

    This haste has the real potential to make what should have been an investment into an expense and potentially a major waste of public funds.

  14. Avatar
    Anonymous

    At Bussa, the problem is with the entrance to International Mall, surely cheaper to fix than building a flyover. We have a habit in Barbados of building something new at great expense instead of fixing what is already there.
    …………………………………………………………………….
    Let me state upfront that I am against the building of flyovers or may I state “RAMPS”. We have not given the road widening a chance to see the traffic problems and the remedy to solve such problems. We have seen better traffic movements around the roundabouts, but motorists are being hampered by such area as the Wildey/Upland/Sargeants area due to the numerous hiccups by contractors. We also have serious hiccups in the Warrens area due to a lackadaisical or lack of knowledge by the contractors. Let us deal with these problems first and then we can talk about spending our hard-earned tax dollars. By the way, Top Rock/St. Lawrence area is not a part of the ABC highway, yet we have traffic backup from way up Maxwell Main Road leading right down to the city. This simply means we have to deal with the problems within the urban area in order to solve the roundabout problems. We must deal with one-way roads within that area. We must stop the stupid talk of having to travel a few yards to get to your destination. Barbados is too small to talk about distance.

    Peltdownman, I also agree with you regarding the entrance/Exit to Tri Mart which should move to the above section and ease the congestion by the roundabout.

  15. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    The above comment is mine. I forgot to type in my sign-in name.

  16. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    This haste has the real potential to make what should have been an investment into an expense and potentially a major waste of public funds.
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    I fully agree with you on this point.

  17. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    There is still so much construction taking place in these areas that we cannot know until the road crews are gone and all lanes operating how the traffic will flow or backup. In parts of Britain some roundabouts have traffic lights on them. Also in Britain areas at junctions and roundabouts have the road painted and if you cannot get past that spot you do not move on to it as you will just block the road.

  18. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    There was talk last term about having schools within the Bridgetown area start and end earlier.
    It was tried at a couple I believe. Will they be looking at doing this this year as it may help?

  19. Tell me Why Avatar
    Tell me Why

    It was tried at a couple I believe. Will they be looking at doing this this year as it may help?
    …………………………………………………………………….
    You have hit the nail on the head. The problem with all the gridlock is due to urban schools and the don’t care attitude by some parents who allow children to place their bags in the trunk. On reaching the school, the children get out, open the trunk and place it on their backs and return to the front to collect money. Neither the parent or child give to hoots about the blockage of the road. What is needed to ease this problem is the setting up of drop off/collecting points on the outskirts of the urban area where parents and children will not caused any blockage. The two points in mind are The Garrison and The Stadium. Buses assign to the particular school will then enter the urban area and drop the children inside the school compound. We will save over 75 cars per day per school. Thus , we will have a smooth drive to the city like the ones during vacation time. Ah lie.

  20. JC Avatar
    JC

    Tell me why I never thught of that you may have a point ……….

  21. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    Flyovers/overpass, whatever may be a solution but not the only one, plus it would be an ubly one. i have a totally different solution. Do you see how freely traffic flows during summer holidays? One (1) Establish a 6th form school, in the north e.g. Alexandra or Coleridge & Parry. Two (2) Make Harrisons College, Queen’s College and Combermere purely 6th form schools each specialising in a particular discipline and all other secondary school would be full zoning. Yes, it would have its hiccups in the early stages but these problems can be ironed out. I know Big Boys wouyld want to send their child/ children to St. George Sec, so what? . Then go live in an area near to where you want to send your child. We can bulid as much h/way and maybe flyovers as we like twenty years from now are we going to place another flyover over the existing flyover when the traffic get worse with theinflux of immigrants into this country. Let’s face it we are becoming another Singapore.

  22. John Avatar
    John

    The scout // August 21, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Let’s face it we are becoming another Singapore.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Don’t insult Singapore.

    That country has a government and people dedicated to the progress of their country who were and are prepared to sacrifice to make that progress happen.

    The population is 4 million and the land size is about the same as here!!

    They want the population to grow to 6 million.

    There simply is no comparison.

    Use Google Earth and look at what Singapore.

  23. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Where is the alternative solution from BAPE? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

  24. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    John
    I was not and will never insult Singapore. I think you misunderstand me. i will seek to explain what I met. Inorder for that country to be at the stage it is, is forward planning. To much of what we do is ad hoc and partisan political. We would need our politicians to mature and in turn educate the citizens, we has the potential to become a successful replica of Singapore or a failed attempt. It is all up to the leaders. External forces are squeezing in on us and forcing us to declare our hands or they would declare it for us. We are getting too many “anybodies” coming in who just adds to our alrady existing problem. We have shown our potential to the world, we now have one of two choices, to develop a Singapore model or a N.Y model ( hell’s kitchen.) The ball is in the people’s court through the maturity of the leaders

  25. David Avatar
    David

    The BU family must be aware by now that we publish submissions from time to time even if we don’t agree. The ABC/Flyover project is a significant one and should be kept on the front burner in the Court of Public Opinion.

    We are concerned that decisions made by the current government on the Flyover Project should be kept non-political. There is too much at stake.

  26. John Avatar
    John

    Anonymous // August 21, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Where is the alternative solution from BAPE? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    This is not an us vs them situation.

    I brought up the Singapore situation to show what people can do when they work together with and not against each other.

    David

    It is as simple as that.

    There is too much at stake.

    The sooner we wake up to reality the sooner we can try to put matters right.

    Our ancestors despite their differences, had that figured out long time ago, and they never went to any fancy school or university.

  27. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Singapore has many flyovers . They are not ugly especially when covered with plants
    3S had provided aesthetically pleasing designs to minimize visual impact.

  28. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Where is the alternative solution from BAPE? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
    ———————————————-

    Spot on!

  29. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    While we believe that this DLP Government had little choice but to fire 3S SRL and scrap the idea of building flyovers on the ABC,
    —————————————————

    Why?
    3S has shown nothing but professionalism throughout in the face of aggressive obstruction for political reasons.

  30. John Avatar
    John

    ru4real?

  31. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Bajans need to learn self-discipline on the roads.
    Too many think only of themselves and block junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights etc.
    Cars should not stop on the highway to let off and/or pick up passengers, newspapers, nuts, ackees etc.

  32. Q Avatar
    Q

    Man David Thompson will have to come back and say ok flyovers will be built

    –everybody knows that he was just grandstanding, we understand it as part of the political game so no sweat , no bother. Thompson plays the political game all the time
    even if it means throwing in a little LIE here and there–so what-
    go Thompson go you are doing well and Barbados loves you so

  33. art Avatar
    art

    As a local my main objection to 3S is the fact that they received a contract, drained foreign exchange to a source that was unaccountable. There was no tender, and a secret contract was negotiated, all cloak and dagger.

    The DLP was elected on the platform of ITAL and elimination of corruption. I believed it, buit now, more than 250 days in, the ITAL promise ignoired. Tings getting warm and fuzzy.

    Ru4real?

  34. art Avatar
    art

    sorry that’s 200 days cf the 100 day promise

  35. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    As a local my main objection to 3S is the fact that they received a contract, drained foreign exchange to a source that was unaccountable. There was no tender, and a secret contract was negotiated, all cloak and dagger.
    ————————————————–

    If it was so secret how come you know about it?
    Absolute rubbish.

  36. Q Avatar
    Q

    Bajans need to learn self-discipline on the roads.
    Too many think only of themselves and block junctions,

    Women drivers are the worse culprits of this behaviour on the roads

    as a matter of fact women are mashing up Barbados with their ignorance on the roads, in the office and in the home.
    Women have a bit too much freedom in Barbados, We need the Quoran. Women need to be stopped before they stop the world

    check the behaviour of women and you would see what I mean.

  37. Q Avatar
    Q

    wunna wanted a change in government

    this DLP government aint saying a pang
    no vision
    no direction

    cost of living gone up
    unemployment gone up and continues to go up

    me caan tek um
    I WANT THE BLP BACK
    I WANT THE DLP OUT
    I WANT BACK OWEN
    DOWN WITH THE DLP

  38. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    LOL

    Hate to tell you Q that Owen is no longer leading the BLP.

  39. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    (BAPE said the lightpole bases “looked small” 😉

    ———————————————————-

    Hell hath no fury like an electrician scorned.

  40. Scam Swindle Steal Avatar
    Scam Swindle Steal

    Don’t worry ru4real. Your wounds will heal with time.

    You may even learn, in time, to appreciate the importance of integrity and ethical behaviour in your future business dealings.

    The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. In some cases, it could even get you lock up. LOL

  41. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    ru4real // August 22, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    As a local my main objection to 3S is the fact that they received a contract, drained foreign exchange to a source that was unaccountable. There was no tender, and a secret contract was negotiated, all cloak and dagger.
    ————————————————–

    If it was so secret how come you know about it?
    Absolute rubbish.
    ————————————————————
    ru4real,

    1) Was there a tender?

    2) Was there a Request for Proposals?

  42. Bush tea Avatar
    Bush tea

    Scam Swindle Steal // August 22, 2008 at 6:30 pm

    Don’t worry ru4real. Your wounds will heal with time.
    ————————————————————-
    …true ru4real, you just need some time….

    I hope you get ’bout 20 years…LOL

  43. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    ru4real,

    Can you tell us what work 3S actually did on the project? (You should exclude work that was subcontracted to others). What expertise did 3S bring to the project?

  44. Waterboy Avatar
    Waterboy

    ru4real,

    1) Was there a tender?

    2) Was there a Request for Proposals?
    ————————————————————

    ru4real, still wiating for your response…………..

  45. deMarlehole Avatar
    deMarlehole

    Hello David

    BREAKING NEWS!

    How many of you realize this project was being thought of as a TOLL road….; I have not heard or read one comment from the press or BAPE on the possibility, that being the underlying purpose.

  46. David Avatar
    David

    @deMarlehole

    Speaking from memory the Nation did run a couple articles on the toll option which was advocated by Sir Cow Williams. It was also discussed on the blogs in the context that the highway is being financed by what the experts refer to as a BOLT arrangement. In a BOLT arrangement it is our understanding that the asset being financed should generate revenue to repay the loan before transfer, in this case to government. How a highway with several feeder roads could operate with toll is still stretching our minds. We are a simple household on these matters, hopefully others in the BU family can pick up the discussion to clarify for you deMarlehole.

    Let us clarify that there was a tender by the previous government to widen the ABC Highway. It is the flyover extension of the project which was arbitrarily assigned to 3S SRL. We speak with authority on this because we spoke to executives at Mabey & Johnson when we investigated this matter when the story first broke. Maybey & Johnson is the large bridge building company which tendered for the road widenning but were not invited to tender for the flyovers.

  47. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Can you tell us what work 3S actually did on the project? (You should exclude work that was subcontracted to others). What expertise did 3S bring to the project?

    High exacting standards man.
    The ABC highway is the best road ever built in Barbados .
    Up to date building methods.
    Superb and expert supervision.

    3S was employed to build flyovers the road widening was extra as REQUESTED by the Ministry.

  48. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Brutus the sub contractors may be the best in Barbados but they ain’t no great shakes.
    Technology moves on.
    If you want international standards you do one thing . If you want crap standards you do it the way y’all have always done .

  49. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Bush Tea

    Aint no skin off my nose man.
    The losers are the road useing public .The solution was and is Flyovers.
    And in a recent poll 55% of the public agreed.

  50. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    finger stutter?

    LOL… wha happen ru4real… yuh got de nerves?

    Doan panic… I hear duh got internet access up at Dodds.

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