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BAPE And The Highway…Part 2

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Submitted by BU Family Member

wildeyHaving written before on the role of the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers (BAPE) and their criticisms of the ABC highway project in the run up to the last elections, what has been puzzling is its complete silence on the highway since then.

My primary concern is the “Wildey Merge Mania” where traffic coming from St. David’s that wants to go to Wildey must come to a junction which is structured that you must look OVER your shoulder to see oncoming traffic (which is coming at speed down a hill) to race forwards, to cross not one but THREE lanes of traffic in less than 100 meters. While at the same time contending with traffic coming from Collymore Rock that is doing the same thing (looking over the shoulder to avoid mainstream traffic and merging across three lanes) in the other direction! It is a miracle that no one has been killed in this madness.

To put the above into perspective, the distance available to merge across three lanes of traffic is LESS than what is available to people joining the highway in the Belle who only have to merge into the next lane and don’t have to deal with crossing traffic. BAPE raised a stink about the Belle junction, but they have been silent about the Wildey situation.

To quote from the BAPE’s position paper:

BAPE recommends that 3S be asked to provide information on the standards used in the design of this intersection, and examples of similarly constructed intersections they have designed elsewhere so that the consequential effects can

be examined.

No questions about the standards used in the Wildey situation BAPE? Why not?

My second concern is that having rightly raised the alarm about the tender process in the original highway project there is not even a whimper about the contract for the “redesign” of the highway, which the government issued to a former candidate(coincidentally also a member of BAPE)with no public tender. Further the Minister will publicly admit there is NO PROJECTED COMPLETION DATE for the project, but still the BAPE is silent on the matter.

In addition to this is the apparent abandonment of the idea of over or underpasses for pedestrians so now we have the prospect of a permanent arrangement where school children are crossing 4 lanes of 80 kilometre per hour traffic. Yet no word from BAPE on this either. Perhaps we should ask for “standards” where this is done elsewhere as well?

And after all of the above traffic still backs up on the highway! (Perhaps the PM might want to tell us what the cost of a flyover solution would be NOW?) I go back to my point in my previous post that it looks more and more like the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers was either

(1) playing politics itself,

(2) being used to further others political ends or

(3) just didn’t know what they were talking about!

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39 responses to “BAPE And The Highway…Part 2”

  1. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    I think that Barbados Association of Procrastinating Engineers have shot themselves right in their collective feet and are probably guilty as charged on all three counts.

  2. Avatar
    Anonymous

    David

    Are you telling me that killing field there by the upton/ wildey junction is the permanent solution?

    Surely you jest david?

    I have never seen any where any place something so obviously crazy to pass itself off as a traffic solution.

    I am awaiting the outrage from the BAPE,members of the public have already been voicing their concerns publicly.

    Here we go again with David thompson and these coolies,this time it is abdul pandor who has been given the job of completion of the ABC Highway.
    The said Pandor,a DLP opportunist who was handed the seat for the city while thehard worker Todd had to stand back.

    I am carefully watching all of this.

  3. Stressed Out Avatar
    Stressed Out

    My co-worker has suggested it and I am doing it: if I am coming from Carters to proceed past Sagicor onto GS Roundabout I go up to the SJP Polytechnic and come back down. I have had tooooooooooooooooooo many people behind me pull out ahead of me as I am trying to bend my neck to look back to move from the right to the left. It is insane there!!!!!!!!

    And P.S. Whomever has been contracted to do the striping and creating the so called “disappearing” lanes should be FIRED!

  4. DOMINOES Avatar
    DOMINOES

    Only MADD ppl could come with this idea of traffic diversion, education is not common sense.

  5. Mr Benighted Avatar
    Mr Benighted

    You got that right Dominoes… I keep asking… what’s this thing called ‘education’? Apparently it’s the piece of paper you get after you’ve read a few text books and answered an ‘exam.’

    Then you’re an ‘expert’ (my friend calls them ‘scholars’.) And now you can bamboozle everybody with your ignorance.

  6. The Scout Avatar
    The Scout

    It would appear that what is happening there is trying to prove that there is no need for a flyover. that is the most dangerous intersection, I have even come across. Every time i pass there I witness some near misses. I guess, we have to wait until some “big boy” is saeriously hurt or killed there for it to be changed.

  7. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    Wildey junction is a wonderful example of ‘highway madness’ in Barbados. Remember that a highway is supposed to be for ‘free flowing traffic’. Yet, in Barbados, highways are interrupted by major stops (roundabouts and even pedestrian crossings), so from 80 kph to 0 kph is a common place. If it’s a highway then it needs to be built with free flow in mind all the way . Otherwise, it’s not a highway. Mixing the two notions does not work. In other countries, if you have highways, you have controlled entry and exits (eg, in the US/Europe with the on/off ramp loops) and they may be longer and circuitous but that is the price to pay to avoid collisions.

    Most countries that have roads joining at right angles use traffic lights to control the flows (you often have this when a highway ends and traffic has to go onto other roads). Roundabouts should really only be used for relatively light traffic flows, and most countries don’t have them. The British, however, developed them a lot and Barbados has followed suit to deal with its many major right angle junctions.

    The logic of the ABC highway at Wildey suggests that traffic from Collymore Rock should flow via SJPP roundabout (so joining the main flow more safely). It also implies traffic from Upton going via Sagicor/Gymnasium roundabout. Both options then avoid crossing vehicles moving at high speed in a short distance.

    The concept introduced in the present set up is also one that most local drivers do not understand and have not been taught, and so creates added danger as people stop to assess rather than proceed and merge.

  8. David Avatar
    David

    In recent months we have started to become a little concerned at the lack of purpose driving the completion of the roadworks on the ABC highway. Minister John Boyce who has responsibilty has made several promises to the public to the point where he has stopped giving promises o on its completion. A sure sign that his ministry has lost some control of the project.

    For example why would the ministry allow lanes to be closed on the highway with test match and agrofest events creating abnormal traffic flows on our highways?

    The time has come to hold the current administration accountable for what is happening as far as completing the highway is concerned.

  9. permres Avatar
    permres

    livinginbarbados, I agree almost entirely with your post, you have identified many problems here in Barbados, I think.

    However, your sentence “Both options then avoid crossing vehicles moving at high speed in a short distance.” contains an error. On all motorways in the UK, there are large illuminated signs well before a junction warning of merging traffic ahead, and to slow down. That is, Wildey is a junction, visitors to Barbados will know we do not have flyovers because the island is too small, and no-one, including locals, will expect to travel at high speed through the junction.

    Local will have to learn to merge, there are several excellent websites which explain the technique. I agree Wildey is very short, but locals still use roundabouts believing they are intended to negotiate the junction at speed. The technique here is to stay in one’s lane, slow down before and stay slow on the roundabout, indicate appropriately especially on exit, and accelerate out of the roundabout.

    Of course there will always be those aggressive drivers who try to overtake everyone everywhere, but they should only be few, and we meet them all over the world. Whilst merging we do not stop unless necessary, stay in lane, indicate, change lanes, continue slowly until past the junction.

  10. permres Avatar
    permres

    I forgot to mention, entry onto the one-way merging lanes at Wildey could be controlled by traffic lights, especially at peak times. This is done at roundabouts in the UK, and the Arc de Triomphe, Paris, to my knowledge.

  11. David Avatar
    David

    Based on what we have read about the highway there are several issues to consider/discuss:

    The structure/design of the highway with/without the flyovers given the smallness of Barbados and the other peculiarities e.g. the several roads which feed into the main highway and the turns across the highway which has the effect of bottlenecking traffic.

    There is the management or lack of by the government/MTW to get the highway finished and

    there is the program which must be launched to educated Barbadian drivers to driving on the highway.

    Sure there are other issues but the three above are key we think.

  12. permres Avatar
    permres

    Concerning the education of Barbadians on the use of the Highway, I have heard (not experienced) that driving in Trinidad can be a frightening experience.

    Unfortunately, those who have told me these tales are Barbadians visiting Trinidad, but they come back and their tone is often one of admiration. They say that we should just get used to this sort of driving here.

    I know Trinidad (and the US) often has an undesirable influence on us here in many ways, but I trust that in our driving it will not be one of them.

    There is another aspect. I am not against motor sport, but the skills are often quite different to driving on public roads. Many Barbadians do not seem to acknowledge this.

  13. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    Permres, I am not sure what is the error. What I have envisaged is that:
    a. Upton traffic comes onto the highway in a left lane and proceeds all the way around to the Sagicor roundabout, if it wants to head toward Collymore.
    b. Collymore traffic heads up to SJPP if it wants to head toward the airport/Sergeants village. (If they want to go back toward Collymore they can keep in the right lane.)

    Both a and b avoid NEW TRAFFIC crossing at Wildey, which is extremely dangerous less because of the need to merge but more because the highway traffic is coming downhill and generally at great speed. It is an inconvenience but much safer, I believe.

    Signposting is something that is woefully lacking on the highway, and what is there now is a cause of congestion. For example, the “Give Way” from Collymore/Carters @ Texaco means that traffic invariably stops and gives way to traffic coming from Sagicor roundabout rather than using the long straight away to merge.

    On congestion, more generally, we can see the absence of good planning at the roundabouts that cross the highway, such that peak flows are east-west (Bridgetown bound or exiting) and they block lighter north-south flows. This is where lights would be better at least to keep the junction clear, if properly respected.

    On driving styles, it does not really matter how people are on the roads in other countries, and it is less likely that people ‘copy’ other national styles because the roads, amenities, etc. are differently configured and the roots of driving have led to different approaches. However, a certain amount of aggression can be good in that people guage and use space better. My experience has been that Bajan drivers seem very cautious at junctions and need about 3 times as much time as I do to enter traffic. It’s the local style and it frustrates me but I now adapt to it. I grew up in London and can assess space, speed and braking distances well (and these were key parts of the driving instruction and road test). I do not blink at large volumes or large vehicles. People here often seem overawed by trucks and even bicycles, and of course the kamikaze and unpredictable behaviour of bus drivers.

    We could go on about lane discipline on highways etc. But, let that do for now.

  14. permres Avatar
    permres

    Very good post again, livinginbarbados, I only picked on your use of the phrase “high speed”, and tried to suggest that even on the Highway motorists MUST slow down if they are approaching merging traffic.

  15. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    It is nonsense to say that Barbados doesnt need flyovers because it is too small.
    Flyovers are used in urban areas where space is at a premium for that very reason.
    I think it is obvious to everyone now that flyovers were the safest and most obvious solution to the traffic problem as stated all along by 3S.
    Also as stated by them all along , the road widening – done at the insistence of the MPW alone does not solve the problem at all.
    However its all water ( and money) under the bridge – or in this case not under the bridge now.

    Re traffic discipline -what traffic discipline?
    Buses pull out and stop willy nilly people are nervous with good reason.
    PULLING OVER is a movement unknown to the majority of car drivers
    They will stop dead in the middle of the lane to lime to a girl friend / load up shopping/ children/ without turning a hair about the traffic build up behind.

    Many of the roads are too narrow for the size of the buses and cars- they were build for donkey carts in mind.
    And the speed that vehicles drive down these narrow pavement less streets is murderous.
    And for goodness sake MPT change the ridiculous ruling on the highway.
    Allowing people to ‘pass either side’
    means that stubborn – and we are a stubborn island people – sit in the right lane coasting along at 30 k and to hell with anyone trying to get past.
    The right lane should be the overtaking lane.

    Why the heck we want to be like Trinidad ? Enough trouble with their banks without their road manners.

    Better driving standards and clear instructions are needed.

  16. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    Permres, understood. But, as is so often the case, the ‘should’ and the ‘do’ are not the same. I see no indication that the traffic barrelling down the hill realises it should slow down. What has been tried in other countries is to force that by having ‘speed retarders’, either small bumps or ‘ripples’ in the road (such as often found near US/UK highway exits), plus a few signs such as ‘SLOW’ or ‘WARNING. MERGING TRAFFIC!’ We cannot rely on ‘common sense’.

  17. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    ru4real, there is not a compelling case for flyovers in Barbados. They may seem necessary given what has been tried so far. But it is both a matter of cost-benefit and a larger plan for traffic management. Road engineers can argue about how to deal with the major flows that were using the highways, and flyovers could have been one set of solutions, but so too could a different array of flows. ABC is an odd mix of roads, with highway concepts and ‘byways’ aspects. For example, the desire to keep direct access to LIME and Shell at Wildey immediately negated the notion of a highway. But other solutions (such as routing access to Shell only after the turn) or creating another entry for LIME would have taken time, money, and a good bit of negotiation. But they are/were not impossible.

    What often happens when road types are mixed is traffic chaos, and there are then a range of add-ons tried that may alleviate but never really solve the initial bad design. You can see that with the kooky kink in the road at the LIME junction, which is the most juke up thing I have seen in a while.

    I was no party to any of the designs or plans but I have seen similar situations dealt with differently in other countries, without the need for flyovers.

  18. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    The flyover project was only part of a whole traffic system .
    The remit was the ‘free flow’ of the ABC highway.
    The contractor 3s did a complete traffic study which included traffic management and study and flows . It was carried out by highly qualified internationally qualified traffic engineers. All these recommendations were completely disregarded and indeed obstructed by the MPW.

  19. David Avatar
    David

    @ru4real please email us the traffic study.

  20. Stressed Out Avatar
    Stressed Out

    but ru4real they did a real real nice nice job on the custom concrete jersey barriers at SJPP 😉 😉

  21. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ru4real,

    This is where Barbados can seem odd. The document should be a matter of public record, if not also part of a public consultation process (with drawings, models, etc.) so that people know what to expect. I’ve only been here 2 years and have never heard of such a full study for public eyes. I say this as someone who worked in local government land use planning in the UK, especially on transport issues, as my first job. Strange.

  22. Only me Avatar
    Only me

    Excellent article , as one who goes through wildey everymorning i myself wonder at the miracle of no accident there by the B.E.T building as that is madness as far as i am concerned .

  23. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    David you have to go to MPW ask them they have the results of the traffic study. Naturally they will deny this as they deny everything else.
    Another person who posts here did this and got the ‘know nothing’ spiel
    never seen never heard of it.
    Numerous talks demonstrations and figures were given both to MPT the government and the public
    All were poohed poohed by BAPE –
    Disregarded by MPT who wanted the road widening AT ALL COSTS – and what a cost it has been to the Barbados people WITHOUT solving the problem.
    It is quite obvious there is no reasonable and feasible solution given all the factors involved – land shortage disruption of traffic cost fictive that was as suitable as the flyover + a regulated system of traffic flow and the correct use and timing of traffic lights.
    The problem is and always has been the roundabouts a problem that was quickly and correctly identified and a workable sulution.
    This is NOT a solution for the whole of Bridgetown or Barbados but the freeing up of the ABC highway.
    Why is BAPE so silent?
    Because they know they have got it very very wrong.
    All of the factors that 3S warned them about have come to pass.

  24. permres Avatar
    permres

    ru4real, you keep using the phrase ” … freeing up the ABC Highway”, and this has always been my long-standing observation. Why would we want to free up the ABC Highway, apart from enabling a smooth connection between GAIA and the Platinum Coast? I likened it to those who could use a helicopter to get into Central London.

    You answered once that many locals use the ABC, but they have to get off somewhere, and even if they are fortunate enough to have their school or workplace close to the ABC, they are going to run into congestion at the junctions, at least at peak times. While they are waiting in the slip lane or feeder road into Bridgetown, tourists will fly by. Some of them may even notice you sitting there, and think, oh dear, poor peasants – sorry I mean locals.

    Part of the Barbados experience is to mix with the locals, so even the wealthy should be prepared to do this as soon as they get off their airplane. As I have also said, some of the really wealthy can have a helicopter to get them to wherever they want to spend their secluded time here and not mix with the locals at all.

  25. notesfromthemargin Avatar
    notesfromthemargin

    I’ve put my position on flyovers already elsewhere on this blog.

    Permres, right now locals have congestion on the highway AND on the feeder roads. So if I follow your logic you would do nothing if it couldn’t fix the entire problem?

    It’s funny that your argument about tourists using the highway was one used before… back in 1979 when the original highway was built!

    Also used was the argument “Barbados is too small to have….(back then it was “such a big road” but these days it appears to be flyovers)

    The government of the day took a great deal of criticism for building the original highway. The critics were so harsh that the road was scaled back from being a 4 lane to a 2 lane highway. (hence why Government didn’t have to do any land acquisitions this time, it already had the land) Now we have expanded to a 4 lane highway 30 years later at some multiple of what it would have cost us back then, and we find ourselves enmeshed in a similar argument about flyovers.

    The irony of it is that 3 months after the original highway opened Bajans could not remember how they ever got on without it.

    It would seem that those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

  26. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    ru4real, you keep using the phrase ” … freeing up the ABC Highway”, and this has always been my long-standing observation. Why would we want to free up the ABC Highway, apart from enabling a smooth connection between GAIA and the Platinum Coast?

    ——————————————-
    Because you have to start somewhere!
    And the obvious place if the central spine highway that traverses a considerable distance North -South of the country.
    ‘Just’ frees up between the airport and the platinum coast?
    Do you ever travel on this highway in the morning?
    It is a major route for people coming to work .
    Yes thats WORK Permres .
    Something that people do on a daily basis something I suspect that you no longer do!
    Also SCHOOL – children go to school they need the highway . Not all children go tot he school nearest their house.
    Your implication is that a few tourists use it to get to their hotel after disembarking.
    NOT SO.
    This is the main highway it should be free lowing not as it is now practically gridlocked for a huge part of the day.
    Barbados can no longer keep working on the premise that it is a sleepy little island – chill man so what we sat in dis jam for how long?

  27. Barnabas Collins Avatar
    Barnabas Collins

    First let me say I was not a fan of the fly-overs but the more I travel the highway the more I am thinking that we should have at least 2 fly-overs and 2 pedestrian overpasses.

    The debacle at Wildey is well chronicled on this thread but I think it is total madness what is going on at present. I cannot hear anyone commit to a completion date for the highway. I am advising all my friends not to travel on the wildey-bermuda triangle or try crossing the road on those 2 death-traps diguised as pedestrian crossings. In the last election, the then opposition made the highway an issue of cost overruns. One year later no one cannot tell us when it is going to finish. I feel that they are waiting to see if we accept the crap they are doing before they say “yup, it finish”.

    I cannot understand how we can so many “engineers” yet we cannot come up with a better solution than what pertains on that highway. And you know what, tragically, nothing will be done until someone loses their life at one of those stupid areas.

    BC

  28. permres Avatar
    permres

    I am not denying that the problems mentioned are not real, and the real solution has to be, as we move into the 21st century, fewer private cars and slower speeds.

    Of course a highway bypass serves two purposes, hopefully (but not necessarily) swifter transit, and secondly it takes through traffic out of the town centres. (c.f. village by-passes in the UK).

    My principled objection is to the construction of flyovers, at this point in time for the future development of Barbados. That is, which way do we want to go? More and more urbanisation, with concrete, or a movement into a futuristic first world development with pedestrianisation, cycle tracks and environmentally friendly progress?

  29. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Permres said…..
    “I am not denying that the problems mentioned are not real, and the real solution has to be, as we move into the 21st century, fewer private cars and slower speed”

    ___________________
    So Permres, I take it from your comment that you are willing to be the first to give up your private car?

  30. David Avatar
    David

    Anonymous // February 27, 2009 at 3:59 pm (edit)

    David

    Are you telling me that killing field there by the upton/ wildey junction is the permanent solution?

    Surely you jest david?

    Did we hear PM Thompson correct in his most recent press conference when in reference to the Upton/BET junction he stated the MTW was experimenting and were satisfied with the traffic flow so far?

  31. Galli Gantu Avatar
    Galli Gantu

    Not bragging, but I’ve driven through some of the most complicated junctions in Europe, including what was known as Spaghetti junction, but in terms of absolutely dangerous, the BET junction takes the cake. As someone already pointed out , you are asking many drivers of Right Hand Drives vehicles, mainly, to look over his/her left should ,through what is the most dangerous blind spot on a vehicle, and merge with speeding traffic coming downhill, also with other which are not below your eye view level, coming from St Davids. To call this madness is an understatement.
    I did not support the erection of Flyovers before as in my opinion they were not merited, but now that the present Ministry of Transport has turned the ABC reconstruction into an abortion, there is now a need to place a flyover at the BET Junction, at least.
    Of course we will not hear much from the Barbados Association of Professional Engineers, as one of their very own is now the Honorable Mr. Minister.

  32. Galli Gantu Avatar
    Galli Gantu

    just a correction to the above.
    line 6; should read;-over his /her left shoulder.
    line 8 should read….which are now below your eye level.

  33. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    The good Minister of Works Mr Bull **** Boyce says he is proud of the way that ‘Barbadian ‘ contractors have ‘redesigned’ the road .
    Well at least someones pleased

  34. Galli Cantu Avatar
    Galli Cantu

    But do you realise that some of the lane markings at some roundabouts, unless they are more specific ,and more clearly defined , are going to encourage more indiscipline than the contentious Jam Buster?

  35. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Mia Mottley says when her party gets into power they will build flyovers as the (debacle )of the ABC highway is affecting productivity.

  36. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    But what a waste of time energy and money. If not for the determined and unreasonable opposition Barbados would have its flyovers now . There was no need to widen the road – as was pointed out many times – all it has produced is confusion and has not solved the problem.
    Playing politics with a major public project is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
    What exactly has been gained by anyone?

  37. permres Avatar
    permres

    Here is a good piece explaining what we mean by merging:

    http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/newsitem.asp?more=local&NewsID=3532

    My one criticism of it is that there is no mention of using indicators before any manoeuvre. As I have said before, when I passed my driving test in 1962 in the UK with the British School of Motoring, their instruction taught MIM – “mirror, indicate, manoeuvre”. This was before any motorway driving, but readily accommodated that demand when it arrived.

    In the same Advocate paper, there is a letter suggesting that Wildey, if seen as a roundabout, gives right-of-way to traffic on one’s right. But this should apply anywhere, therefore highway traffic should give way to traffic coming out-of-town and wanting to turn south. However, as the link article above suggests, and as I have said in earlier posts here, highway warnings saying merging traffic ahead means they slow down, to allow for merging to occur, whether they are merging from the left OR the right! The article uses the word “courtesy”.

  38. fairplay Avatar
    fairplay

    After reading the crap and lies on the highway project put out in the media yesterday by Minister John Boyce I feel both insulted and dismayed .
    Insulted becuase everything he says is an insult to the intelligence of any ordinary Barbadian who has has eyes to see the disaster that the present government has wreaked upon the people of this country in imposing its ridiculous road ‘improvements’
    Where are all the ‘technocrats’ he speaks of , I assume that he is talking of the Bape ‘experts.’
    Dismayed because the man just shouted off a string of excuses blaming the BLP for everthing – the election was won long ago and still this idiot rants on.
    Far easier to blame the previous government than face up to the fact that this government is not up to the job and made a monumental mess of the highway and has solved nothing barring giving his cronies projects that are far beyond their capabilities.
    The man is a useless braggart who couldnt cross the road by himself – especiallly the road that his ministry have destroyed at vast public expense.

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