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CIBC First Caribbean is one of the largest banks in Barbados
CIBC First Caribbean is one of the largest banks in Barbados

Judgment (Suit No: CV1339 of 2008) in the Matter Justin McIntosh, Brunetta McIntosh v First Caribbean Int’l Bank (B’dos) Ltd

The above judgement in the case Justin McIntosh, Brunetta McIntosh v First Caribbean International Bank (B’dos) Ltd was delivered since May 2009.  To date, the bank has still not paid the cost for replacing the title deeds that it lost as ordered by the court.  The Plaintiffs are poor people and cannot afford to engage counsel  to seek redress. First Caribbean is aware of the financial state  of the Plaintiffs and must therefore be cognizant of the financial and emotional stress this wilful delay continues to burden two ordinary Barbadians.

In summary: the Plaintiffs [Justin and Brunetta McIntosh] were experiencing financial difficulty in 2004 and started proceedings to sell the property that they owned which they had mortgaged to the First Caribbean.  They could not sell because the bank had LOST the title deeds.  The bank took responsibility in words [see judgement] but has reneged on its obligation to date.  Why must the plaintiffs, or any Barbadians for that matter, have to tolerate a foreign institution demonstrating scant regard for our Court?

These poor Barbadians continue to suffer as a result of  First Caribbean International Bank’s negligence and it appears that no one at that institution gives a damn. BU’s single request to the management of First Caribbean International Bank is to do right by this matter and we will not have to post a followup blog.


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130 responses to “First Caribbean International Bank Not Honouring Court Judgement Handed Down Since 2009–Boycott on the Cards?”

  1. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    DAVID @ WE will keep telling you all the same thing all the time , First Caribbean is a fraud bank , set up by fraud people.
    We went looking for Deeds today at the land registry for people who said they bought land back in 1995 and still nothing recorded , Lawyers is to have the deeds even so the land and building was paid for 2001.
    When they lawyer dont give you your deed or record it then stop payments and the bank does the same she-it,
    we spoke to a Minister today that said they know and asked about the massive fraud by HAM and COW. Affirmed ,
    Now nothing is to be done? We told them that we will sell 400 homes at 1million USD. TO keep the country afloat if they tell the truth.
    We will also remove the VAT , All the problem came in play when the VAT by Owen and then UDC fraud set up also in 1997.
    Free land and the sell off , of the land to work hand and hand.
    Our offer was to shut down the UDC land laundering and save money also.
    This will help remove the pain from the people of Barbados and sur growth , Going shopping is VAT spending , just to buy VAT,,,, we not going shopping we going VAT-ing ..
    Owen and Mia caught red handed , Now the PM need to tell the truth and stop the pain of Barbados ,
    We know how to for We are the only ones to CLEAR titles ,

    If this person want,we can check their deed, their papers need to be recorded after when they bought ,
    The deed is the proof of the fraud , most time you will never get them ,All that crook back and owners wanted was the money ,
    We hate to hear this shit , boycott that dam back and pay no need unless its a clear title , We will stand by who ever agree for we have most of what is missing from Barbados records and record keepers.
    Wake up David you need to push harder ,
    Get a street paper going ,

  2. David (not BU) Avatar
    David (not BU)

    jesus christ you don’t get f-ing tired? every f-ing body is a fraud. even if you have a case, it is sicken everytime somebody mention someone else you, Deeds, jump in the person is a fraud. does it not appear to you that you look like the fraud with these comments?

    christ man, next it will be Ninja man and Jukebox who will get your stamp of Fraud.

  3. Rev Up the Wheelchair Avatar
    Rev Up the Wheelchair

    David (no BU)

    Deeds is an outpatient from Jenkins, you ain’t know that yet. He just need a little 220v shock treatment.

  4. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    A time will come when lesser able persons will realize that taking actions to Court only will end up as with this case, then all hell will break loose…..FCIB do the right thing man….you all can afford it…..

    Aside:
    The judicial system is open to Everybody…..but justice is for the CONNECTED…

  5. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    Rev Up the Wheelchair/David (not BU)@ If you live or care to live in Barbados you will make sure your papers are right , We which you luck , unless you both already broke.
    make sure the lawyers/banks dont smile in your faces and rob you both,
    Bajan have short memories for they need to be reminded until the crime is done and law is enforced,
    let hope you both are crime free where ever you all live,
    God Speed.


  6. ‘Why should Barbadians have to tolerate a foreign institution…’

    Why should Barbadians have to tolerate ANY institution which rides roughshod over its legal obligations at the expense of a very much weaker party?

    Was the summary judgment appealed?

    Were damages, interest and costs in fact assessed and, if so, in what quantum?

  7. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926-2013 AND SEE MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS

    No one paid for Barrack as Yet even with a court judgment .


  8. @Ross

    To be honest BU cares about one thing in this matter and that is in 2013 this Bajan couple is still searching for justice in your precious Court. You understand? Comprende? Frankly we do not give two hoots about your treasured procedure at this point. A bank worth billions lost documents which belongs to this couple and has placed a severe financial and emotional hardship on them as a result. This is all BU is focused on at the moment. You, CIBC or anyone are welcomed to produce a rebuttal which explains why this poor Bajan couple has not met justice from the Court.


  9. David

    You’re talking crap again. But I guess your response, as usual, means you’re hiding something.


  10. On second thoughts……

    1.My feeling about this situation is clearly contained in the first para of my post. That is CLEAR for anyone with eyes to read.

    2. Crane Scott is a reliable judge of great ability and I would trust her judgement.

    3. I am not a property lawyer so that I am unsure on reading the case – which you expected us to read since you posted it if that wasn’t just window dressing – whether the judgment is in fact sound irrespective of my feeling that it is.

    4. My question about whether there was an appeal was not an unfair question, was made entirely innocently, and I have no idea of the answer.

    5. It is NOT MY “precious court” or “treasured procedure” – but if you’re saying you have no regard for the rule of law – fine.

    6. You say that this ‘is all you are focusing on at the moment.’ That presumably means there is more to come. If, then, you are in possession of knowledge that the rest of us are not then you are presently manipulating us.

    7. There is nothing new in that – comprende?


  11. @David | July 22, 2013 at 11:54 PM |

    “To be honest BU cares about one thing in this matter and that is in 2013 this Bajan couple is still searching for justice…..”

    I agree.


  12. @David
    Thanks for drawing this matter to the attention of the BU family. Keep us posted because if this bank does not do right by this family I think we who have accounts with this bank should as a form of protest close such accounts. And when we are asked why we are closing the accounts, make it clear that it is due to this unfair situation.

    I stand ready to close my account there and simply carry de money to de credit union. Nothing difficult to do. A lot of ‘disadvantage’ tekking place in this country especially now de economy in ducks guts.

  13. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Oilman | July 23, 2013 at 5:04 AM |
    “I stand ready to close my account there and simply carry de money to de credit union. Nothing difficult to do.”

    Totally in agreement.
    These transnational exploitative corporations only respond when their public image plummets and things begin to hit their bottom line.

    But don’t expect many of your people to follow your admirably brave and morally justified actions.
    ‘Putting your money where your mouth is’ tends not to be a real Bajan national trait.
    The saying: “ya cant’ eat de money” more sums up the psyche of the Bajan consumer; even if bad food dangerous to their health is on sale.
    Bajans have to demonstrate greater confidence in and give greater support to their local institutions if the goal of financial and economic empowerment is to be achieved.
    If this bully for a bank continues to unfair poor ordinary citizens by flouting the laws of the land and the Court rulings there is no excuse for not moving their “unencumbered” accounts to the credit union; even if they are not equipped for processing cheque-based transactions. The growing use of electronic payments using plastic instead of paper would compensate.

    In any event accounts should be moved- whether to the credit unions or to a more reputably honest bank like Scotia that has had a more positive relationships with Barbadians- to show that Bajan consumers mean business and are no longer prepared to tolerate nonsense and abuse.

    PS: Don’t expect any pressure to come from the Government in any form as long as the Al Barrack fiasco stands out like a sore thumb. It would a bankable case of the pot calling the kettle black, even if in the red.


  14. All the banks in Bim are in on the act of ‘disappearing’ peoples deeds, after you clear your loans or mortgage they cannot ‘find’ the original deeds. many people have been affected by this, personally, i believe they are in the business of selling deeds to the highest bidders as in two cases i know of where the matter is still in high court ten s, but ‘business people’ already paid down millions on the disputed properties, thieves, crooks and liars all, by the way, the files in the cases, and the judge written appeals and judgments have also ‘disappeared’ from the high court, that is the trend in stealing properties on the island.


  15. Well! WELL! “ALL THE BANKS””” you ought to be sued .. What proof do YOU have …on such an asinine and misinformed statement……you are such a JERK….Time for a pit stop.

  16. David (not BU) Avatar
    David (not BU)

    how does one do that Deeds, make sure your papers are right? if as you say, the systems and persons in the system are so corrupt and so many frauds are involve, how does one beat the system.

    Deeds you have made a case, what has change?


  17. ac…………..you need to return to trying to explain away the pending no confidence motion……………by the way, barbados only has maybe 5 but not more than 7 banks, exclusive of individual multiple branches, hope you understood that part.


  18. ac…………in ready your other crazy posts, so that is what got you fired up this morning, i will sit back and watch others mince you to shreds over the no confidence motion, that is my entertainment for today.


  19. Should read: In reading your other crazy posts.


  20. WELL! WELL! remember this FOOL ! I always get the LAST LAUGH!


  21. ac……..yada, yada, yada, you have convinced no one but yourself, you are so deluded, don’t worry, i will be watching, poor thing…….from a negative outlook to what……………………?? now a pending no confidence motion……………….i am certainly not laughing, by the way, the Canadians now own the Barbados Sea Island Cotton, not that it belonged to Barbados anymore, the indian guy sold it to them……..are you still laughing? i am not, also check out Kellman and the NHC contractors, if you are still laughing.


  22. @Miller. For what it is worth, some time ago I removed all my business from CIBC/Barclays/First Caribbean and, because of one of my relatives, took it to Royal Bank of Canada. That was a great many years ago and while I can only speak for myself, I have to say that I have consistently found RBC to be excellent. Not just to me, but to everyone who walks through their doors, irrespective. Always polite and helpful and those with whom I deal who have lodged title deeds with RBC, have NEVER experienced this problem. To me it is unthinkable that any Bank should have deeds lodged with them, lose the deeds and then seek to persuade the person who owns the deeds to pay to have them replaced. Unthinkable. But it is an institutional culture of thought. The blame is on management.

    A short while ago, I had cause to accompany someone into First Caribbean on Broad Street. The congestion and crowding was unspeakable and people were being treated like cattle – AND PUTTING UP WITH IT!!!!! That is what got me. They were actually putting up with it. The discourtesy, the don’t care attitude of the tellers and other bank personnel and the arrogance of the security people. Once my friend had finally completed his transaction, we crossed the road to go up High Street, with me feeling battered and dismayed. And just for wickedness I led him into RBC so he was able to see customers being politely assisted by security on the doors – and security did not wait to be asked, but immediately approached to ask if they might assist – politely. The lines were orderly and, admittedly, long. But the staff knew exactly what they were doing and the lines moved rapidly. If a manager was needed, he/she was immediately forthcoming. It reeked of training, efficiency and PR – and courtesy and good manners.

    And yet my friend still banks with First Caribbean. And I can only conclude that there are a great many people in Barbados who actually revel in the substandard and discourteous treatment meted out to them. Masochism appears to be well and thriving in Barbados.

    I have finally managed to get the time to read the judgement, the application and enforcement of which BU complains. While taking the point that there may be some question as to whether costs were taxed, if not agreed and the possible quantum of damages, I cannot for the life of me see on what basis this very tightly written judgement can be appealed. I see absolutely no viable grounds whatsoever for appeal. I have no idea if any appeal has been filed and I ask you, David, to save me the effort and to establish this from your contacts. For if there is an appeal, which would at best be frivolous and vexatious and at worst a load of shit, then it is profit that ought more properly to be paid to investors that is, instead, being wasted on an appeal (and the whole court procedure) which, frankly, will cost a damned sight more than simply paying costs and any damaged and ending the matter. Also, if the matter of costs and damages has NOT YET been assessed, WHY THE FU*K NOT!!!!

    This is a matter that ought never to have come before the courts at all. First Caribbean ought to have apologised, paid for the new title (which I understand was by foreclosure before the rules changed) and offered this couple some sort of reparation for the trouble and inconvenience to which they had been put. At most, it would have cost $15,000 – AT MOST!!!! Instead, by the very least computation (which includes court and registry and filing etc. costs) it has cost $100,000 of which more than half will have been borne by the taxpayers.

    Disgraceful!!!! I would boycott First Caribbean, except I boycotted them many years ago. So I urge all the BU readership to express their displeasure as urged to do by David and the Mighty Miller and withdraw all monies and assets from First Caribbean and take it either over the road to RBC or any other institution that will provide efficient and courteous service. Nail First Caribbean’s hide to the wall.

  23. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ David

    On commencing this post I know that the holier than thou crew are going to launch a tirade as soon as I am done but such is par for the course.

    Being the recent owner of goadies I can with some certainty state that on any challenge as to who had the biggest balls in a room none could compare nor exceed those I possessed

    Consequently being by weakened stomach walls, an expert in big balls, I can definitively state that FCIB is indeed practicing the “whose balls are the biggest in this judgement.

    You can rest assured that your old folk will possibly die and not get any satisfaction from these highway robbers for in winning the case against CIBCFCIB they have committed the cardinal sin punishment for which is “nailing the balls of the offenders, to the wall” which with the fairer sex is nigh near to impossible and approaches mutilation of the genetalia

    I would ask the female among the (offending) party to be careful if there are any Mummy why you bite me at FCIB and to be on her guard for those “variants ”

    I will come here from time to time to see how things progress and in the inimitable style that I am now being cursed for, bring a few fit its of information about things, like the $10 Million dollars that went missing during the Barclays and CIBC Merge in 2001 or the $2m that the merchant account with ** That they had to write off.

    Dr the Honourable will hold me to task since my head is not bent in prayer as he has suggested


  24. Amused, we have suffered at the hands of CIBC, then First Caribbean, then CIBC First Caribbean for 30 years, but like many small businessmen, they have us by the balls, or should I say, by our home. To move our accounts, including loans, to another bank would cost a small fortune in legal fees. This is a bank that is not comfortable unless it has 4 times the value of a loan in collateral. So we live with it.


  25. “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
    1 Corinthians x. 12.

    I don’ have a clue what the f#ck that means, but I just thought a Biblical quote would be relevant at this time ….!


  26. Might just be words of wisdom instead of biblical.


  27. well WELL wuh happen to the NO CONFIDENCE VOTE, it still stuck up yuh butt.


  28. ac……………….you tell me, you are the one with inside information in the DLP, not to mention the last yardfowl standing on the blog.


  29. Time to shame CIBC/FCIB. Write the CEO of CIBC in Canada, ask them to explain why its bank in Bim has not honoured the court order and send a copy to the press. Have it published in the National Post and Globe and Mail. If someone can email me the pertinent details I will draft the letter and forward it to the newspapers as a letter to the editor or an opinion piece.


  30. Does anyone on here know the procedure for getting one of the top Barbadian honours? Do you have to be a member of the party in power? I just completed the nomination form etc. for someone and was wondering if they stood a chance. I understand that with the passing of Sir Richie Haynes a “lordship/ladyship”, I mean knighthood is now available.

  31. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    Pat | July 23, 2013 at 3:24 PM |

    Time to shame CIBC/FCIB. Write the CEO of CIBC in Canada, ask them to explain why its bank in Bim has not honoured the court order and send a copy to the press. Have it published in the National Post and Globe and Mail. If someone can email me the pertinent details I will draft the letter and forward it to the newspapers as a letter to the editor or an opinion piece.

    ***********************
    Now we talking……hit them in the balls where it will hurt MOST..internationally….Pat I would believe David would have that information…given that he was FIRST contacted ….else-wise plaintiffs here is your redeeming Pat… Just luv it!….watch the movementation from here on in..just watch

  32. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | July 23, 2013 at 2:43 PM |
    “well WELL wuh happen to the NO CONFIDENCE VOTE, it still stuck up yuh butt.”

    What No Confidence vote! You really feel the BLP will make that stupid mistake of revealing its hand before the time is right and the political fruits to pick tree-ripened?

    The BLP made a cardinal faux pas by prematurely revealing the privatization plans during their last annual conference and allowed the reeling DLP to run with it and successfully made political capital and electoral returns from it.

    No “NO Confidence” vote will be brought before the 3,000 temporary workers in the public sector are left to shit their pants and the government’s restructuring programme of State entities is undertaken to achieve its mandatory $400 million cutback in expenditure before the end of this fiscal year.

    The Pièce de résistance to trigger the motion would be the further disaffection of Estwick.
    Unless he is handed the mantle of control over the MoF&EA after the current idiot is hoisted with his own petard and complete the circle of lying incompetence and political self destruction he Estwick would have no alternative but to have a shoot out with the PM and die with his political boots on as far as the DLP posse is concerned.

    The BLP is setting up on the Draughts board a three shot for the DLP. If they fail to “eat” ortake the bait they will still be huffed.

  33. Due Diligence Avatar

    old onion bags | July 23, 2013 at 4:20 PM |

    Due Diligence sent a copy of this thread to senior execs at CIBC, suggesting they resolve the matter quickly


  34. @BAFBFP | July 23, 2013 at 1:37 PM |

    I smiled on noting that you did profane the Holy Bible earlier and none of the “Holy Hands & Washed in the Blood” Crew, the usual New Testament spouting suspects rushed in to call fire and brimstone down on you.

    The Christians will not launch a Holy War against you

    Tell me this. Is atheism as irreverent to all religions or only that of the Christians?

    I note that very few are as adventurous to pull a verse from the Quran and make similar derogatory statements?

    I am made to understand that while “blue balls” hurt equally as bad whether the girl is black or white, people are wiser in choosing their battles when speaking of the Muslim Deity.

    Remember Solomon Rushdie and his Satanic verses?

    And in that same breath I, black sheep extraordinaire, far removed from any Melchizedek order, caution you to remember his Antiguan bodyguard who they found, and killed, with extreme prejudice, in his office in Antigua, 3,000 miles from his client Rusdie, and his UK masters.

    “Tread softly because you tread on my dreams …


  35. When the Bank lost the title deeds in 2004, they promised to bear the cost to replace them. In fact, they executed a deed of indemnity. The plaintiffs secured a purchaser back in 2004 but the purchaser’s lawyer was not satisfied with copies. The bank then reneged on the undertakings in the deed of indemnity to bear the cost of replacing the title deeds. This forced the plaintiffs to court.

    Having lost the case the bank then wanted its lawyers to make the application to replace the title deeds. By now, Mr. & Mrs Mcintosh had absolutely no confidence in the Bank and declined the offer, preferring instead to use their own lawyer. The Registrar has completed the procedure and is only waiting for the fees of approximately $4,000 which the bank has so far not paid. Mind you the bank has not appealed the judgment and therefore has absolutely no reason for not paying except being vindictive and malevolent.


  36. Uhh! miller u should go write a book .u wasting uh talent here on BU u say things that dreams are made….LOL

  37. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    @ Due Diligence

    Why thanks on behalf of the plaintiffs…..sorry you could not let them know also who this is…

  38. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ old onion bags | July 23, 2013 at 4:20 PM |

    We are willing to bet that those senior execs both here and in JCA after reading on BU about our feelings of utter disgust and now know we are onto their asses lie a batty rider in naming and shaming the damned fools that this matter will be resolved in a matter of days to the satisfaction of aggrieved long suffering people.

    If not we will fight the bullies and call for a boycott of that bank managed by silly incompetent ignorant asses.


  39. Caswell

    Thankyou for the update. So yes – go for the neck.

    Why has Due Diligence got a ‘poor’ vote for doing something?

    David

    I’m sure you will have supplied Pat with the information he needs.

    On the information we now have, the Bank is essentially attempting to profit from it’s own wrong despite the agreement to indemnify. As I said way above, that is never acceptable.

    There is a case going on at the moment in which an employee suffered injury at work. A claim was made by the employee on the employer’s insurance policy. He was told that the claim was in hand – repeatedly. Three years on, the insurance company says that though it will look into the matter, the employee’s claim for negligence against his employer is now statute barred such that it, the insurance company, needn’t pay out – that is, the insurance company is attempting to profit from its own contumacy.

  40. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    @ Miller

    Why am I getting this hunch that this dRoss is on FCIB payroll….


  41. pieceuhderockyeahright!!!

    🙂


  42. Onions

    A passing interest of course but you must have undergone an IQ test at some poi9nt in your life. Can you with respect, volunteer the results? Just asking

  43. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | July 23, 2013 at 6:03 PM |
    “miller u should go write a book”

    Who said I haven’t? But certainly not one you can easily read! It would just bore you to death! LOL!!!
    Come on ac, if Alvin Cummins can write a book and feel rightfully boastful about it then ‘anybody’ can, including you ac.

    But there is one thing that is right up your street and that is to come up with a collection or compilation of your usual chants and political incantations to exorcise the ghost of OSA from the DLP body politic.
    And in the epilogue of your hymnal of evil lies, instead of OSA’s epitaph, write the eulogy for the DLP. For after their coming defeat- now or in the soon hereafter- no one in their right mind will ever join, be associated with or vote for that self-destructing lying party.
    They say a cat has nine lives but your DLP feline has only 4 and three have been spent already and you are living in the last incarnation of EWB’s pharaonic influence and dynastic appeal.

    From now on, should the DLP exist as a broken shell of political relevance and not be superseded by another third party, it would always be known not as the former great party of outstanding social engineering and an ‘unique’ example of black political empowerment but as a party of lying deceitful distrustful arrogant incompetent ‘get-rich-quick’ fools lead by the Fumbler himself.

    It’s a pity that the densest fool is squandering a golden opportunity to honour the memory of JCT and settle his debt of free tutelage at the feet of his rearguard master. One wonders who would knight the king-maker of St. Andrew. OSA did it for Sir Lloyd. Who would do it for the Lord Fumbler of Molasses Hill?


  44. Old Onions

    LOL. You’re one sick bitch.


  45. Ross

    You cussin’ …? HA HA HA .. Wah wrong wid you man … HA HA HA


  46. Another biblical comment that I can relate to .. I actually get it. Perhaps I should consider being a Christian after all …

    “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake.”
    Bible, 1 Timothy v. 23.

    Maybe if the new orders would consider replacing “wine” with Silver White and the “stomach” thing with everything else, then I would have absolutely no choice but to reassess my present Atheist juxtaposition…

  47. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    @ BAFBP
    Not even your interjection ( din say injection) cannot save this dRoss from his impending fate….yes as you see he has begun to implode….cussin yes is but one of the outward signs…..IQ nah way beyond my entry to Univ….ole man remember

  48. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Onions et at

    This is a very serious matter about a giant bank taking advantage of poor defenceless people and you crowding this thread with crap. I spoke with these people and my heart hurt for them because of the privation that has been visited upon them and their six year old daughter because wicked people chose to be vindictive instead of doing the right thing. First Caribbean should count themselves lucky because these people are gentle souls. People have died for less. Mind you, I am not saying that somebody at First Caribbean wants killing but come to think of it, it’s not a bad idea.


  49. Thanks Pat, Due Diligence has circulated this blog to the who is who at CIBC Canada, let us give then the obligatory period to respond.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

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