BUSHTEA
it seems that you have no understanding of the doctrine or concept of the doctrine of sons

also Zoe does not seem to be Catholic in his doctrine

always remember that not all christians or church folk in the 3rd century did not become “catholics”- there has always been a section of the church which is niether protestant or Catholic

but UNLIKE ZOE,I have largely given up on saying much on BU. MAKES NO SENSE TRYING.

BUSH TEA
the bible does not use the word rapture either- but the concept is clear.
Zoe has given a reasonable exposition of the concept of the Trinity before on BU
And I have already told you that 1 John 3:2 clearly says now are we the sons of God
I want you to distinguish between the word “huios”- son [used only for Jesus by John ] and the word teknon or teknoi used for children.
Note that the word brephos [baby] is never used to describe the believer
Note that in the NT a son and a child are two different concepts. This idea you most surely picked up when you did Latin at school

Bush Tea, You are so confused, as you always are on things Biblical, your hermeneutics and exegesis, is so typical of one who is obviously a spiritist/spiritualists, Obeah, man, and God knows what else!

As said earlier, a few years ago I thoroughly, in detail, from God’s Word, the Bible, systematically, and LOGICALLY, from language and grammar, both of which use logic, showed the Biblical concept of the ‘Trinity’ as language presupposes LOGICAL distinctions, which Almighty God has given to us, and through which He has communicated His Word to us, because the way a thing IS put together, determines the way IT IS taken apart, I.e., (an engine, washing machine, AND language), that while the term TRINITY is not found in the Bible, nor is the term MILLENNIUM , it IS logically deduced that the ONE THOUSAND YEAR reign of Christ on earth, is logically referred to as His MILLENNIUM reign, AND, also numerous passages in His Word, logically, by language and grammatical structure, so clearly reveal the THREE, separate, and DISTINCT Persons of the Eternal Godhead, that The Doctrine of God in Scripture, give us the revelation of Himself as ONE God, existing IN* THREE Persons, even the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, DISTINGUISHABLE , but INDIVISIBLE in essence; Co-eternal, Co-existent, Co-equal in nature, attributes, power and glory.

There is but ONE eternal Godhead, who is one undivided and indivisible essence; and in this one essence there are THREE eternal distinctions, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Regarding the ‘sons’ of God, and its meaning, as distinct FROM, Jesus, the ONLY begotten Son of God, again, BT, you are way out to sea, and just do NOT understand! Yes, there is the ‘spiritual’ discernment of God’s Word, vitally important, but, the linguistic and grammatical aspect, form a crucial aspect of the spiritual discernment and proper, sound interpretation.

More to come…stand by!

Save it Zoe!
Keep your “more to come”.
No wonder you come across as insane…. Just keep on with your irrational nonsense, Bushie is NOT INTERESTED in changing your views….only in highlighting how FOOLISH they are….

Wunna say…
1- God is a trinity – 3 in 1, Indivisable and unchanging…
2 -These three are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Now you post that…
3- “TO HIM WHO OVERCOMES I WILL GRANT TO SIT WITH ME ON MY THRONE, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

– So will there now be a second class of “Gods” (just not to upset wunna “trinity” nonsense?)
– So being SONS does not constitute being IN the family?

By the way, what exactly happened to the TRINITY when Jesus gave up his divinity and became a MAN?……was it a temporary UNITY? LOLOL 🙂
..similarly, when sons are added, what happens to a family?
Stupsssss

What Trinity what?
That has been THE greatest heresy ever preached.

BBE is a collective and growing entity. The human family has been modeled on it, the concept of ‘Sons’ is not difficult to follow…. They shall number as the stars…

PROOF THAT JESUS WAS THE UNIQUE ‘SON’ OF GOD.

Do the New Testament (N.T.) texts describe Jesus as a unique ‘Son’ of God or just another “son” of God, amongst many, in a metaphorical sense?

Probably the most famous N.T. scripture is John 3:16. Here, Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

The Greek word translated “one and only” is “monogenes”. It means “only born”, or “sole”. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of N.T. Words adds that “the term is one of endearment as well as singleness.”

Strong’s concordance says that it is a combination of the word “monos” meaning “only”, and “ginomai” meaning to “to cause to be, generate, become, or come into being”.

This word is also used in referring to a boy in Luke 7:12- “As he (Jesus) approached the town gate, a dead person was being carried out – the only son of his mother, and she was a widow.”

The Greek word ‘monogenes’ is used here and translated as ‘only’.

It is used likewise in Luke 9:38- “A man in the crowd called out, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child.”

“Monogenes” is applied to Jesus in:

John 1:14- “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the “One and Only”, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

Take a minute to understand what John is saying. Look at the glory and majesty John attributes to Jesus. Adam never had that praise, David was praised, but never at that level. Only Jesus received that recognition. Vine’s further elaborates that the passage in the Greek here illustrates that the glory attributed to Jesus was a glory found only in a unique relationship with God.

John 1:18- “No one has ever seen God, but God, the “One and Only”, who is at the Father’s side has made him known.”

Here, Jesus as the unique Son of God is revealed to be at the Father’s side. No other person who is called “son of God” has ever been revealed to be at the Father’s side.

John 3:18, and 1 John 4:9 are other verses where “monogenes” is used in reference to Jesus.

The N.T. scriptures show that when Jesus is referred to as the only “Son” of God it means Jesus is the unique “Son” of God. With respect to being a “Son of God”, “monogenes” is only used for Jesus.

2) Hebrews chapter 1 elaborates on who Jesus really is. The whole chapter shows clearly the Divinity of Christ. Of note is vs. 3:”The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”

3) When Jesus was brought before Pilate the Jews said, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.” [John 19:7]If Jesus were only speaking metaphorically the Jews would not have brought him to trial on such a charge as blasphemy. [Death was the penalty for blasphemy – ref. Lev. 24:16]. The Jews knew and understood Psalms 82:6, and they had no problem with a metaphorical statement. The Jews objected to Jesus claiming to be the unique, the eternal, “Son” of God.

4) Jesus again calls Himself the Son of God and elaborates on His unique Sonship in Matt 11:27

“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. And in John 5:22 Christ again calls Himself the Son of God, and elaborates:

“Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.”

5) Jesus’ parable of the tenants in Matt 21:33-43 ends with the landowner sending his son to collect a vineyard’s fruit. The workers had attacked and even killed some of the landowner’s servants. When the son came they killed him also. The interpretation of the parable is that God has sent prophets to the people of Israel to call them to produce the fruits of righteousness, but they rejected and mistreated them. Last of all God sent Christ and the Jews killed him also. This also predicts Christ’s future crucifixion.

Note that in this parable, Jesus distinguishes himself as the “Son” in contrast with the prophets who had come as servants.

There are other N.T. scriptures supporting Jesus as the unique Son of God: these sample texts from the Bible are sufficient to prove that Jesus was the unique Son of God.

You went to school on weekends Zoe?

A man went to Jesus and ask him DIRECTLY what it would take to enter God’s kingdom.

The answer:
“You MUST be born again” ….note BORN into the kingdom.

If you are waiting to be “adopted” that may explain a lot….. 🙂

The Trinity, the Definition of Chalcedon, and Oneness Theology

by James White

I. Introduction

The doctrine of the Trinity requires a balanced view of Scripture. That is, since the doctrine itself is derived from more than one stream of evidence, it requires that all the evidence be weighed and given authority. If any of the foundational pillars of the doctrine (monotheism, the deity of Christ, the person of the Holy Spirit, etc.) be ignored or even rejected, the resulting doctrinal system will differ markedly from the orthodox position, and will lose its claim to be called “biblical.” For centuries various small groups have rejected the doctrine of the Trinity. In modern times these groups have frequently attracted quite a following; Jehovah’s Witnesses as the modern heirs of Arius have over 3 million people actively engaged in their work; the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) are heirs of ancient polytheism and mystery religions, and nearly 10 million adhere to their teachings. A smaller number of people, however, cling to the third-century position of modalism – the teachings of men such as Sabellius or Praxeas or Noetus. Though fewer in number, it is this position, popularly called the “Oneness” teaching, that prompts this paper’s clarification of the Biblical position regarding the doctrine of the Trinity and the Person of Jesus Christ. Oneness writers strongly deny the doctrine of the Trinity. In the words of David K. Bernard,

“The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity, and trinitarianism actually contradicts the Bible. It does not add any positive benefit to the Christian message….the doctrine of the trinity does detract from the important biblical themes of the oneness of God and the absolute deity of Jesus Christ.”[1]

The attack on the Trinity launched by Oneness writers can be divided into two camps. There are some writers who know what the doctrine is and disagree with it; unfortunately, many others don’t know what it is and attack it anyway, normally misrepresenting the doctrine in quite obvious ways. For example, one writer, while ridiculing the use of the term “mystery” in reference to the Trinity said, “When asked to explain how God could be one and three persons at the same time the answer is, “It’s a mystery.” “[2] Of course, the doctrine of the Trinity does not say God is one person and three persons or one being and three beings, but that within the one being of God there exists eternally three persons. It is easy to see why many find the doctrine unintelligible, especially when they trust writers who are not careful in their research. This Oneness teaching is quite attractive to the person who wishes, for whatever personal reason, to “purge” the faith of what they might consider to be “man’s philosophies.” There are a number of Oneness groups in the United States, located primarily in the South and Midwest. The United Pentecostal Church is the largest of the Oneness groups in the U.S.; others include the Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God, the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, and the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith. Each of these groups has thousands of followers, many of whom are quite evangelistic in spreading their faith. Given that many of the issues that Oneness addresses are not familiar ground for most Christians, it is good to examine these issues in the light of Biblical revelation and theology so that the orthodox Christian will be able to “give a reason” for the hope that is within us. This survey will be broken into four sections. First, the important aspects of the doctrine of the Trinity relevant to the Oneness position will be examined. These would include the Christian definition of monotheism, the existence of three persons, the pre-existence of the Son and the internal operations of the Trinity. Secondly, vital issues relevant to Christology will be addressed, such as the Chalcedonian definition, the unipersonality of Christ, and the relationship of the Father and the Son. Thirdly, the Oneness position will be defined and presented, and finally that position will be critiqued.
http://www.answersingenesis.org

@Bushie and Zoe
wunna sure wunna aint want ta exchange phone numbers and hash this out man ta man / woman ta woman?

Just observing

The Door to Sonship

The Door of Sonship to God clearly articulated in Galatians is spiritual ADOPTION through faith in Jesus Christ. As Paul wrote in Gal 4:4,5:

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

As Bruce states:

The divine act of adoption corresponds … to the adoptive procedure envisaged in v 2. What is emphasized here is the nodal point of salvation-history, marked by the coming of Christ … [it] constitutes the divinely ordained epoch for the people of God to enter into their inheritance as mature and responsible sons and daughters.2

The initiative of adoption always begins with the prospective parent, and God was the first to act in order to call his elect to himself, in order to adopt them as his sons and heirs. Gal 3:26-29 says:

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

J. I. Packer’s chapter titled Sons of God in his classic book Knowing God is one of the best expositions of the blessings of adoption into Christ. Concerning this passage, Packer states:

Sonship to God is not, therefore, a universal status into which everyone enters by natural birth, but a supernatural gift which one receives through Jesus Christ … the gift of sonship to God becomes ours not through being born, but through being born again.3

In addition, he affirms:

The revelation to the believer that God is his Father is in a sense the climax of the Bible, just as it was in the final step in the revelatory process which the Bible records. In Old Testament times, as we have seen, God gave his people a covenant name by which to speak of him and call upon him: the name was Yahweh (“Jehovah,” “the Lord”). By this name, God announced himself as the “great I AM” – the One who is completely and consistently himself. He is: and it is because he is what he is that everything else is as it is.4

So it is evident that the door to Sonship can only be opened by God, who is the sovereign Lord of all, and by his initiative, he sent forth his only Son, to be born under the Law and to die under the Law, so that the chosen of God may be freely adopted into the kingdom as justified sons of God. Spiritual adoption is received, not acquired, as the apostle John tells us in John 1:12.

By the power of God, his children are enabled to receive him, and are given the right to become children and heirs by believing in his name and thereby being justified. This new birth does not come by blood inheritance, nor the desire of the flesh and human nature, nor by man’s own will to be a son, but rather by the will and plan of God. Through adoption God promises, “And I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me, Says the Lord Almighty,” (2 Cor 6:18).

According to Packer, adoption is the highest privilege offered by God, even higher than justification.5 This is not a denial that “justification is the primary blessing because it meets our primary spiritual need”6, but rather is to say that justification is not the highest blessing. Adoption is higher because of the richer relationship with God that it involves.7 Justification is forensic and does not of itself imply any intimate or deep relationship with God the Judge. In theory, you can have the reality of justification without any close fellowship with God.8

Contrasted to this is adoption, which is a family idea, conceived in terms of love and viewing God as Father9. Through adoption God draws us into his family, and establishes us as desired children, and we are recipients of his intimate love and generosity. As Packer states:

Closeness, affection and generosity are at the heart of the relationship. To be right with God the Judge is a great thing, but to be loved and cared for by God the Father is greater.10
http://www.dtl.org

The Benefits of Sonship

So it is clear that the benefits of adoption into Christ are many, and basic to these benefits is the fact of a new relationship with God the Father through adoption. All believers are now declared sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:26), for all are baptized with Christ and all have clothed themselves with Christ (3:27). As a protective father wraps his arms around his precious child in a violent storm, so does Christ wrap his children with himself in eternal protection of them. As Gal 2:20 declares:

“I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

The believer in a very real sense no longer lives, not to self, but Christ lives through him, sanctifying him and bringing him closer to the image of the Son of God. The desire and need of the person to live by the flesh is now replaced with a need and desire to live by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ. As it is stated by Paul later in his letter to the Romans:

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.” (Rom 6:1-7).

So ADOPTION into the family of God requires a growing resemblance to the Divine Patriarch of the family as well as our brother, Jesus Christ. We as believers are to be conformed to the image of Christ as we grow in grace and spiritual maturity. We have graciously been granted newness of life, and our old self has been put to death on the cross. Although our sinful nature remains, our duty is to live by, through, and for Jesus Christ, as inherited sons of God. Inheritance does not only bestow benefits on the heir but also responsibility of the riches willed to him.

As sons of God, believers are now incredibly able to petition God, not as God the Judge (which he assuredly remains) but rather as “Abba! Father!” (Gal 4:6), calling on him as the loving Daddy in a new, adoptive relationship. Gal 4:7 tells us, “Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.” The slavery to law and sin has passed, and all the benefits of sonship have been bestowed on the believer. As Packer states, the new relationship between believer and God the Father mirrors the relationship between the Father and the Son, and implies four things11:

Fatherhood implies authority. The Father commands and disposes; the initiative which he calls his son to exercise is the initiative of resolute obedience to the Father’s will. Second, fatherhood implies affection. “The Father loves the Son”. Third, fatherhood implies fellowship. Fourth, fatherhood implies honor. God wills to exalt his Son. All this extends to God’s adopted children. In, through and under Jesus Christ their Lord, they are ruled, loved companied with and honored by their heavenly Father.

Through spiritual ADOPTION , the believer has passed from death to life, from darkness to light. In this new relationship, obedience secures the benefits of adoption (Matt 12:50), and barriers between sinner and God are broken down as strangers and aliens are changed into fellow citizens with the saints, as well as incorporation into God’s household (Eph 2:19). Christ is no longer ashamed to call us brothers (Heb 2:11) and we are now called brethren of his. The apostle Paul expounded on these truths further in the letter to the Romans:

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of ADOPTION as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. (8:14-21).

By the universe-shattering event of the incarnation of God in Christ Jesus, and his atoning sacrifice of love for his lost sheep, the relationship between former slaves to sin and God has been eternally changed. The book of Galatians develops this monumental change of relationship and exhorts believers to live the new life they have been granted as imitators of Christ, and not to “turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again”, (Gal 4:9). Instead the sons of God are urged and encouraged by Paul that:

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. (Gal 5:1;13; 6:14).

The sons and heirs of God are called and demanded to act and live as what they now are: ADOPTED children of God
http://www.dtl.org.

@ Zoe | December 4, 2012 at 11:56 AM |
“As sons of God, believers are now incredibly able to petition God, not as God the Judge (which he assuredly remains) but rather as “Abba! Father!” (Gal 4:6), calling on him as the loving Daddy in a new, adoptive relationship. ”

So where do women stand in relation to the Sons of God?
Are they also considered for being adopted as ‘sons’ of your god?

@ Georgie Porgie | December 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM |

LESBIANS TOO!
Sorry GP don’t answer that one.

correction wouldn’t let you into my Temple you dissing me for a Senator.

LOLL Bushie yuh light yuh own bushfire tek dat!

Bush Tea | December 4, 2012 at 12:02 PM |
@ GP
“Man GP you picking on the WRONG person…..
Um is ZOE who is saying that since these “sons of God” are only adopted, they cannot be equal with Jesus – (so that his Trinity can be preserved.)”

Bushie man use what little common sense you might have left, human analogy, If a earthly King, in his Palace, adopted a group of people into his family, with all the benefits of life under his Kingship, would this make the adopted children, EQUAL to the King? Certainly not!

“Wuh if adopted sons = birth sons, then Zoe arguments want flushing…. Cause these ADOPTED and BIRTH sons will all become part of God’s family – AND MASH UP WUNNA TRINITY SCAM.”

BT Man, only a willfully chosen ‘blind’ man, spiritually, like you, in the teeth of such Scriptural evidence, from both the O.T., and the New Testament, could in stubborn ignorance and arrogance, continue to deny the Trinity, the evidence of which Biblically, is overwhelmingly obvious!

“Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn, REFUSE to accept them.”

“Heads wunna lose, tails Bushie wins….”

Bushie, man, where you IS, only TAILS exist…! As your feet are firmly planted in Mid-Air! So, imagine where you head is!?

Bush Tea

“OK here is an easier question… What happened to the ‘trinity’ when Jesus lived on earth as a man?”

Bushie, listen carefully, to the Bible answer to you question:

Col. 2: 6-10.
“As you (Christians) therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up IN Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.” (vv 6, 7)

Verse 8, then speak to those of your mindset, BT, read carefully!

“Beware lest anyone cheat you through PHILOSOPHY and EMPTY deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the base principles of this world, and NOT according to Christ.” (v.8)

Having addressed your mindset, BT in verse 8, verses 9 and 10, specifically answers your question, re the Trinity, while Jesus was on earth.

:For IN HIM* (Jesus) DWELLS ALL* the FULLNESS of the Godhead BODILY; and you are complete In Him (Jesus) who IS* the head of all principality and POWER.” (vv. 9,10).

Exegesis: “For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily ( hoti en autoi katoikei pan to pleroma tes theotetos somatikos) There DWELLS (at home) IN Christ not one or more aspects of the Godhead (the very essence of God, from ‘theos, deitas). from theios, the quality of God, divinitas, here only in the N. T. These divinely inspired text, here asserts that “ALL the ‘pleroma’ of the Godhead,” not just certain aspects, dweels in Christ and in bodily form. Here in Scripture, God’s Word, it clearly and plainly asserts the DEITY and the humanity of Jesus Christ in corporeal form. (Word Pictures in The New Testament, Vol. IV, p. 491)

Therefore, by virtue of ALL the fullness of the Godhead dwelling IN Christ bodily, He remained Omnipresent, that IS* He never ceased to be, while on earth, to still BE, the Second Person of the Trinity, our fallible, finite minds cannot comprehend this spiritual reality of the Eternal Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

BT, listen and learn what Jesus being ‘the first born’ mean, Gk. prototokos!

What does it mean that Jesus is the ‘first-born’ over Creation?

Question: “What does it mean that Jesus is the ‘first-born’ over Creation?”

Answer: In a letter to the church at Colossae, the Apostle Paul gave an intriguing description of Jesus. In it, he explained Christ’s relationship to God the Father and to creation. Some have claimed that Paul’s description of Christ as the first-born of creation means that Jesus was created — not eternal, not God. Such a doctrine, however, conflicts with the rest of the Bible. Christ could not be both Creator and created; John 1 clearly names Him Creator. Let’s take a careful look at the passage where Jesus is called the first-born.

Colossians 1:15-21
“And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first-born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.”

Jesus is God
Christ’s relationship to His Father begins with the phrase “the image of the invisible God.” The word “image,” meaning copy or likeness, expresses Christ’s deity. This word involves more than a resemblance, more than a representation. He is God! Although He took on human form, He has the exact nature of His Father (Hebrews 1:3).

The “Word” of John 1:1 is a divine Person, not a philosophical abstraction. In the incarnation, the invisible God became visible in Christ; deity was clothed with humanity (Matthew 17:2). God is in Christ: visible, audible, approachable, knowable, and available. All that God is, Christ is.

Jesus is Lord of Creation
The description “first-born of all creation” speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10). God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ (Hebrews 1:2-4).

Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word “first-born” (Greek word “prototokos”) signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership.

Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ’s sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.

Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: “I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth” (Psalm 89:27).

Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.

Thus, the phrase “first-born of all creation” proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

Bush Tea, In your humanistic, spiritualist mindset, you just DO NOT understand!

“If Jesus was fully God, are you now saying that the Roman soldiers killed God? Or are you saying that Jesus never really died on the cross? Hint- Any answer besides the obvious one (that JESUS WAS A MAN) will place you in deep doo doo… ”

Jesus in His Incarnation WAS both God AND Man, this was necessary to effect the Redemption of mankind, as Only God IN Christ could pay the price for OUR Salvation.

It WAS His, Jesus sinless HUMANITY, that DIED on the Cross, NOT His Deity.

Jesus’ Two Natures: God and Man
by Matt Slick

Jesus is the most important person who has ever lived since he is the savior, God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. In other words, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature, God and man. The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh (John 1:1,14). Instead, the Word was joined with humanity (Col. 2:9). Jesus’ divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who “had God within Him” nor is he a man who “manifested the God principle.” He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity. “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word,” (Heb. 1:3). Jesus’ two natures are not “mixed together,” (Eutychianism) nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus “in action”:

GOD MAN
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17).
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8) He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17).
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1).
He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8).
All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).

The Communicatio Idiomatum

A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for “communication of properties”). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus.

One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah’s Witnesses focus on Jesus’ humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try and set them against scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the scriptures showing Jesus’ divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity.

For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1,14).

The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6).

Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1.

1 Tim. 2:5 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus.

Zoe
You can always tell a wise man by his ability to give SIMPLE answers to questions.

Anytime you come across someone who has to quote multiple sources, copy and paste documents, and insult others, you can be assured that you are dealing with an ignoramus

Have a good day!

Bushtea
What do you think of the concept of the kenosis and the epistatic union as described in Philippians 2:7?

Better scrub up and clean for when you meet your maker. I have seen the visions in parables soon coming 21.12.12

Observing, I’m sorry you have been turned off, Its really is a rather simple and straightforward message,

“For God so loved the world ( mankind) that He gave His Only begotten Son, (Jesus Christ) that whosoever believes (Trust as Saviour and Lord)
should not perish ( Go to Hell) but have everlasting life.” ( John. 3:16)

But, when others are constantly posing questions, doubting the Word of God, and willfully or not, maligning sound principles of interpretation, misleading others by so doing, it requires, at times extended and long answers.

@Zoe
“it requires, at times extended and long answers.”

It never does. Congrats for once on a succinct, clear, concise message to all believers and unbelievers. One that none of us can debate, but all can rejoice in.

John is a beautiful Gospel that renders drawn out debates such as this one mute and brings hope and joy to all humankind.

Walk good.

Just Observing

BUSHTEA
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE AN ARIAN GNOSTIC
IM OUT OF HERE
I CAN SPEND MY TIME BETTER ON MY 24/7 CRICKET TV STATION