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Church of England Under Pressure to Change

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Photo credit: The Telegraph

The Church of England considers a celibate person of homosexual orientation to be eligible for ordination, even if the person has entered into a civil same-sex partnership, noting “The Church should not collude with the present assumptions of society that all close relationships necessarily include sexual activity.

[Church of England News, 25 July 2005. House of Bishops issues pastoral statement on Civil Partnerships. Retrieved 18 July 2007.]

Last week those who follow matters of the ecclesiastical variety would have been stunned to learn that the House of Laity – part of the General Synod of the Church of England – killed a twelve year effort to allow women to elevate to the position of bishop. There is the ridiculous situation developing where the David Cameron government is considering repealing equalitarian legislation to force the Church of England to accept women to perform in the role of bishop.  The Church of England is answerable to the UK parliament which makes the decision to block women from attaining bishophood the more intriguing given its declared position on human rights.

Puzzling to BU is the fact that homosexual male priests who swear to celibacy are allowed to serve at all levels in the Church of England.  How is it the decision by the Church of England is liberal on the issue of homosexual male priests but diametrically different on heterosexual or homosexual female priests being given the opportunity to serve in the role of bishop? A glaring inconsistency!

The other source of puzzlement is that last year Prime Minister David Cameron threatened Barbados and other Commonwealth countries that UK will withhold aid from countries that have discriminatory homosexual legislation on the books. Cameron sees discrimination against homosexuals as a human rights issue. If he is consistent the decision by the Church of England must be embarrassing to his government. The world will be observing closely how the Cameron government reacts to the decision last week by the Church of England.

The Church of England is also under pressure that the redefinition of marriage may create another divide in the Church of England.  There is no guarantee the exemption promised will be realised. The obvious conflict which presiding over same sex marriages would cause does not make for easy decisions for the Church.

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  1. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    The God-Man and the Gospel

    “The union of the divine and human natures in His one Person, as ‘God manifest in the flesh,’ lies at the foundation of the whole system of Christian doctrine, and none of its peculiar lessons can be understood in their true meaning, or duly realized and felt, without constant reference to it,” (James Buchanan, The Doctrine of Justification, p. 302).

    Why was it necessary for Christ to be both God and man in order to be our Savior?

    What did Jesus accomplish for us in becoming the God-Man?

    “And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness;
    ‘God WAS MANIFESTED in the flesh, (Jesus Christ) Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in Glory.” (I Tim. 3: 16 )

    Who WAS Manifested in the FLESH, God Incarnate, Jesus Christ!

    Jesus was conceived by The Holy Spirit, became Sinless Man, therefore, “God WAS Manifested in the flesh, Jesus Christ, the God-Man1

  2. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    “To get around this quandary, Zoe is saying that Jesus was BOTH God AND man at the same time….
    Thus Bushie’s question….did Romans KILL GOD?

    God IS SPIRIT, no one can KILL Spirit! The deity of Christ, that DWELT in Christ BODILY, was/is SPIRIT,no one can KILL Spirit! It WAS the sinless, physical BODY of Christ that WAS killed, crucified by the Roman soldiers.
    Not the Spirit of His Deity!

  3. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    This has to be repeated, and re-posted, as Bush Tea reveals the CORE of his Gnosticism, Mormonism heretical, utterly un-biblical nonsense.

    The same father of ALL lies, who spoke through the serpent to Eve, now speaks through Bush Tea, and he always does with False prophets.

    “…you will BE LIKE GOD…” ( Gen. 3:5b)
    “…that we NOW have the POTENTIAL to BECOME AS GOD…” ( The Gospel according to Bush Tea)

  4. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    LOL @ GP
    Did ARIAN GNOSTICS chase you Away from Barbados medically too? Bushie have no idea what an ARIAN GNOSTIC is, but it sounds like a tough guy 🙂

    Bushie know what a COWARD is…. and Zoe is just an ass so Bushie will put him on ignore…

    This is simple logic as Chris Halsall can attest – 101 Logic.

    -If Jesus was God, then he could NOT have died on the cross
    -If he did not die on the cross then John 3:16 and the whole concept of God’s sacrifice for mankind makes no sense.
    -if Jesus DID die on the cross, then he was in fact a MAN.
    -if he was a MAN then the trinity had to have been disrupted.

    The whole “Man-God” talk is just a lot of shoite. That is not even logically possible. OXYMORON is the word to look up.

    What MAN-GOD what?!?

    SIMPLE ANSWER – There is NO SUCH THING AS ANY TRINITY. Never was!
    The Actual BIG BOSS ENGINEER (The Word) who conceived and built our world GAVE UP HIS DIVINITY and became a MAN (for love) John 3:16
    He was endowed with the SPIRIT OF GOD at his baptism and was later crucified.
    He was resurrected and “born again” as the first begotten of many sons (to come) of the Father of the Big Boss Engineers.

    IF WUNNA DON’T UNDERSTAND JUST ASK!…..or HUSH UP!

  5. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Bush Tea,

    “The whole “Man-God” talk is just a lot of shoite. That is not even logically possible. OXYMORON is the word to look up.”

    “…That is not even logically possible. OXYMORON…”

    The Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Eternal power and attributes of the Godhead, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, TRANSCEND the limits of LOGICAL reasoning, it CANNOT be reasoned out with LOGIC!

    This again confirms, the self-referrential, INCOHERENT, Unscriptural ineptness, and ignorance, (lacking knowledge and understanding) of Bush Tea!

  6. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    He haw He Haw!! 🙂
    Only an ass would accuse the CREATOR of science and of all that physically exists….of illogic.

    …or does that assessment much better fit on a jackass?

  7. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Christ Always Possessed Divine Attributes.

    In becoming man, Christ did NOT empty Himself of any of His essential or moral ATTRIBUTES. This is noted in the following Scriptures.

    Essential Attributes.

    (1) OMNIPRESENCE ( John 3:13; Matthew 28: 19-20; 18:20)
    Jesus knew, as the Son of Man, that he WAS both on earth and IN
    Heaven. This IS* Omnipresence. Only by this attribute can He be WITH
    His people EVERYWHERE at ALL times.

    (2) OMNIPOTENCE ( John 6:36; 14:11; 10:25, 37-38; 15:24)
    The works of Jesus were DIVINE works. Certain works only God Himself
    could do. Jesus FORGAVE sins, declared the DIVINE Name, I AM, and
    exercised CREATIVE powers which ONLY belong to Deity. Jesus was
    ALL-POWERFUL.

    (3) OMNISCIENCE (John 2:24-25; 18:4_
    Jesus KNEW all men. He also KNEW all that was in man. As to His Deity,
    He WAS all-knowing. Nothing was hidden from His sight.

    (4) IMMUTABLE (Hebrews 1:12; 13:8)
    Jesus Christ IS the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER. His
    character, love and life ARE unchangeable.

    (5) SELF-EXISTENT (John 8:58; John 1:4; 5:26)
    Jesus offered men eternal life, saying this LIFE was IN Himself. He
    that has the Son of God HAS eternal life. This IS an attribute of Deity
    ( I John 5: 11-13

    (6) ETERNAL ( Rev. 1:8; John 3:16; 5:26)
    Jesus US the eternal Son of God. He presents eternal LIFE to all those
    who will believe on the Father through Him.

  8. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Bush Tea | December 6, 2012 at 8:29 AM |
    He haw He Haw!!

    “Only an ass would accuse the CREATOR of science and of all that physically exists….of illogic.”

    Oh, what an self-referrentially, INCOHERENT fool you are! The subject matter here under discussion is NOT “…all that physically exist….of illogic.”

    The TRINITY, the DEITY of CHRIST, is NOT dealing with PHYSICAL matter, this is NOT physics, chemistry, biology, or other science subjects,
    this is beyond logical inquiry, FOOL!

    …or does that assessment much better fit on a jackass?

  9. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when he comes, he will show us all things.”

    “I who speak to you am he.”

  10. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Jesus Moral Attributes

    The following moral attributes were also manifested IN the Son of God, on earth. In becoming Man, He did NOT empty Himself of these moral attributes of Deity.

    (1) Holiness ( Mark 1:24; Rev. 4:8; I Peter 1: 15-16)

    (2) Righteousness ( I Cor. 1:30; Jeremiah 23: 4-5; I John 2: 1-2)

    (3) Love ( John 3:16; Gal. 2:20; I John 4: 16-19; Jesus Christ WAS/Is perfect LOVE manifested. This includes goodness, Grace, Mercy, compassion and kindness, ALL of which ARE qualities of God’s love ( Eph. 2: 4,7, Titus 3: 4-7).

    (4) Faithfulness (John 14:6; I John 5:20; Heb, 2:17;) Jesus Christ IS* truthfulness PERSONIFIED. That IS Deity (God manifested in flesh) the sinless BODY of Christ on earth!

  11. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Is Jesus God?
    What Kind Of God?

    Some have argued that Jesus was only claiming to be part of God. But the idea that we are all part of God, and that within us is the seed of divinity, is simply not a possible meaning for Jesus’ words and actions. Such thoughts are revisionist, foreign to his teaching, foreign to his stated beliefs, and foreign to his disciples’ understanding of his teaching.

    Jesus taught that he is God in the way the Jews understood God and the way the Hebrew Scriptures portrayed God, not in the way the New Age movement understands God. Neither Jesus nor his audience had been weaned on Star Wars, and so when they spoke of God, they were not speaking of cosmic forces. It’s simply bad history to redefine what Jesus meant by the concept of God.

    Lewis explains,

    Now let us get this clear. Among Pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God….But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside the world, who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.[19]

    Certainly there are those who accept Jesus as a great teacher, yet are unwilling to call him God. As a Deist, we’ve seen that Thomas Jefferson had no problem accepting Jesus’ teachings on morals and ethics while denying his deity.[20] But as we’ve said, and will explore further, if Jesus was not who he claimed to be, then we must examine some other alternatives, none of which would make him a great moral teacher. Lewis, argued, “I am trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say.”[21]

    In his quest for truth, Lewis knew that he could not have it both ways with the identity of Jesus. Either Jesus was who he claimed to be—God in the flesh—or his claims were false. And if they were false, Jesus could not be a great moral teacher. He would either be lying intentionally or he would be a lunatic with a God complex.

  12. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    I Lord of the Dance present Jah Shaka inna Zulu Warrior stylee

  13. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    THE DEITY OF CHRIST, God of very God!

    The Deity and humanity of Christ need to be kept in delicate balance, as evidenced by the New Testament writers, to avoid HERESY.

    Flowing are the Scriptures which CONFIRM the Deity of Christ. The strongest proofs that the Lord Jesus Christ IS* God are the DIVINE attributes, Divine NAMES, divine WORKS, divine WORSHIP, divine CLAIMS, and divine RELATIONSHIP ascribed to Him.

    1. Eternity of Being
    The Sonship of Christ IS an eternal sonship in the eternal Godhead. His name is I AM and expresses eternity of being. Jesus knew He pre-existed with the Father and came down from heaven ( John 1: 1-3; Prov. 30:4; Rom. 1:20; John 17: 3-5; Matt 3:11; 16:16; Heb. 7: 1-4; Isa. 7:14; 9: 6-9; Prov. 8:23-31; Rev. 1:8-11, John 6:33, 41, 50, 51, 58, 62; 8:56-58; Exod 3:14; Micah 5:2)

    2. Pre-existence of Being
    Jesus Himself witnessed to His own pre-existence. He knew that He dwelt in the bosom of the Father. Eternity of being involves pre-existence of being. Jesus existed BEFORE He was born of the virgin Mry ( John 1: 1-3; 27, 30; 16: 26-28; 17: 1-5; Luke 12: 49-51; Matt 10:40; Prov 8:13-36; John 6:38-57; 8:28, 38, 58, Mark. 1:38; Micah 5:2)

    3. Self-existence
    The Son existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit. the Son IS the life-source and has power to GIVE eternal life to ALL who will believe. He lives in the power of an ENDLESS LIFE. Such language can ONLY apply to DEITY, to the self-existent God ( John 1:4; 5:21-26; 14:16; Heb 7:16; I john 5:11-120

    Deity
    The testimony of Scriptures to the Deity of Christ
    (1) He existed in the beginning as the WORD, as God ( John 1:1 with Genesis 1:1; Phil 2:6; Rev. 19:13
    (2) He was with God, the Father ( John 1:1)
    (3) He WAS God, the Son ( John 1:1; Rom 9:5; Heb 1;*, 10; I John 5:20; Titus 2:13)
    (4) He IS God MANIFESTED in the flesh ( John 20:28; I Tim 3:16; Col 2:9; 1:19; Acts 20:28; Heb 1:8)
    (5) He is the Mighty God ( Isa. 9:6; Psa. 45:6)
    (6) He is Immanuel, God with us ( Isa.7:14; Matt 1:23)
    (7) He is the Word made flesh ( John 1:14-18)
    (8) He is the True God ( I John 5:20; with Titus 2:13; Rom 9:5)
    (9) He is the great Goid ( Titus 2:13)
    (10) He is our God and Savior ( II Peter 1:1)
    (11) He existed in the form of God BEFORE His incarnation and WAS equal with God the Father (Phil. 2: 5-7)
    (12) He is the only wise God ( Jude 25)

  14. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Bushie. Since you know what “moron” means, you know how to view the advice to look up the “oxy” part.

    And I continue to not know what position Zoe takes on the simple questions posed by the blog. In other words, I don’t know if Zoe is a male chauvenist oink who agrees that women should not be bishops, or not. I don’t know if Zoe agrees that the word of priests should be taken in regard to their practice of their sexual proclivities, or not.

  15. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Amused
    You want Zoe to take a position? LOLOL…. Zoe just tells it as he has been told to tell it….

    Zoe is a case, but we can’t be too hard on him, there are many others like him who came up brainwashed with baseless myths that are patently untrue, and which actually MAKES NO SENSE.
    Even Zoe will eventually come to the realization that the CREATOR of the kind of order and intricate balance that we can see all around us CANNOT be accused of being Illogical…just so that their TRINITY nonsense can stand.

    How can you have a GOD-MAN? Man is a physical being made in the image of a spiritual God….like a baby is an infant in the image of a man. What would be a “MAN-BABY”? It is EITHER MAN OR BABY!

    GOD-MAN indeed!

    🙂
    When he eventually gets over this simple point, Bushie will explain to Zoe how the HOLY SPIRIT is not a person, but IT is the very character and essence of God. In a way, it also represents the DNA of God, and is THE NECESSARY ingredient for a person to be BORN OF THE SPIRIT of God, (just as the sperm of a man which carries his DNA is required for a baby to be born of that man.)

    The language of the original manuscripts does NOT specify the pronouns like he, she, it etc, so it was left to the translators to interpret this, and wherever their Zoe-like bias would allow, the TRINITY schooled translators decided that the Holy Spirit was a “HE”
    ….. LOL
    Watch as Zoe unleashes another avalanche of cut and paste drivel and biblical insults 🙂

  16. Observing(...) Avatar
    Observing(…)

    @Bushie
    “Watch as Zoe unleashes another avalanche of cut and paste drivel and biblical insults”

    Thanks for the warning! I’ll use Inkwell’s “page down” feature!

  17. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    and john lee hooker stopped by here today
    said he could make a fortune down on boogie way
    i said “john, you know the boogie’s gone
    it’s the dawn of a brand new day”

  18. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    It is impossible, for any rational, honest person, to believe and say that the Holy Spirit, as revealed in Almighty God’s Word, the Scriptures, is an ‘IT’ and not a very Personal ‘Person’ the third Person of the eternal Godhead, as an ‘impersonal’ FORCE, as He is referred to by the JW’s and other cults, could NEVER be described as ‘He’ is in the following.

    Verses showing identity, ministry, and personhood of the Holy Spirit

    1.The Holy Spirit mentioned on equal level with God

    A.Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,”

    B.2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”

    C.Eph. 4:4-6, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.”

    D.2 Cor. 3:16-18, “but whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.”

    2.Names of the Holy Spirit

    A.Spirit of God
    i.Rom. 8:9, “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.” See also Gen. 1:2

    B.Spirit of Christ
    i.Rom. 8:9, “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”

    C.Spirit of your Father
    i.Matt. 10:20, “For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.”

    D.The Spirit of Truth
    i.John 14:17, “that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.” See also, John 15:26.

    E.The Spirit of the Lord
    i.Acts 8:39, “And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.” See also Judges 15:14; 1 Sam. 16:12

    3.The Holy Spirit is referred to as a person by scripture
    A.Who
    i.Rom. 8:11, “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.”
    ii.John 6:63, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.”
    iii.1 John 5:6, “And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”
    iv.See also 1 Cor. 2:12; 2 Tim. 1:14;

    B.He
    i.John 14:26, “These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

    C.Himself
    i.Rom. 8:16, “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,”
    ii.Rom. 8:26, “And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words”

    4.Personhood of the Holy Spirit (has emotions, is aware, speaks, knows, etc.)

    A.Grieves
    i.Isaiah 63:10, “But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.”
    ii.Eph. 4:30, “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

    B.Loves
    i.Rom. 15:30, “Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me.”

    C.Has a mind
    i.Rom. 8:27, “and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

    D.Speaks
    i.2 Sam. 23:2, “The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue.”
    ii.Acts 8:29, “And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.”
    iii.Acts 10:19, “And while Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you.”
    iv.Acts 11:12, “And the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. And these six brethren also went with me, and we entered the man’s house.”
    v.Acts 13:2, “And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
    vi.Acts 21:11, “And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”
    vii.Acts 28:25-26, “And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, “The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers, saying, ‘Go to this people and say, “You will keep on hearing, but will not understand.”
    viii.1 Tim. 4:1, “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,”
    ix.Heb. 3:7-8, “Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, ‘Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness,”
    x.Rev. 2:7, “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.” See also Rev. 2:11,17,29; 3:6,13,22.
    xi.Rev. 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”
    xii.Rev. 22:17, “And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.”

    E.Knows
    i.1 Cor. 2:11, “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.”

    F.Has an awareness of goodness
    i.Acts 15:28, “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials.”

    G.Can be lied to
    i.Acts 5:3, “But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land?”

    H.Can be tested
    i.Acts 5:9, “Then Peter said to her, ‘Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test?’”
    I.Makes overseers
    i.Acts 20:28, “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”

    J.Can be a witness
    i.Acts 5:32, “And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

    K.Can be resisted
    i.Acts 7:51, “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit.”

    5.Activities of the Holy Spirit

    A.Teaches
    i.John 14:26, “These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
    ii.Luke 12:12, “for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

    B.Intercedes
    i.Rom. 8:26, “And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;”

    C.Leads
    i.Matt. 4:1, “Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.”

    D.Gives life
    i.John 6:63, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.”

    E.Filled by
    i.Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.”

    6.Forms of the Holy Spirit

    A.Dove
    i.Matt. 3:16, “And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him.”

    7.Miscellaneous

    A.Can be spoken against
    i.Matt. 12:32, “And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.”

    B.Can be baptized with the Holy Spirit
    i.Mark 1:8, “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

    C.The Spirit is given

    i.John 3:34, “For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure.

    D.The Spirit is received

    i.John 20:22, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”

    E.The Spirit forbids

    i.Acts 16:6, “And they passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia.”

    F.The Spirit searches all things

    i.1 Cor. 2:10, “For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

    G.The Spirit is the truth

    i.1 John 5:6, “And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.”

  19. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    trying thinking outside the box and throw your good book(s) away
    or reread them replacing the son of man with the sons of men

  20. kiki Avatar
    kiki

  21. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Bush Tea, Man, your illogical, self-referential diatribe is really ‘moronic’!

    “How can you have a GOD-MAN? Man is a physical being made in the image of a spiritual God….like a baby is an infant in the image of a man. What would be a “MAN-BABY”? It is EITHER MAN OR BABY!”

    First, “Man is a physical being made in the image of a spiritual God…” Yes, that is correct as far as mortal man, us human being are concerned.

    But, our being made in the ‘image of a spiritual God…” is NOT our physical body, as God does not have a physical body; the ‘image’ aspect of it, is, our ‘Spirit/soul’ which IS* the real part of man, the INNER man, because it is from WITHIN, our Soul, which encompasses our Mind, intellect, our volitional free will, emotions, desires, etc, etc., that bares the ‘image’ of God, which is NOW in a fallen, sin stained condition, unable to functions, as it WAS intended, when God created Adam with moral perfection, BUT, with the free will to choose to LOVE and OBEY God, or, to choose to disobey Him,CHOICE, which Adam did…the rest is history, replete with what followed on.

    Therefore, if we can understand that mankind, is essentially a ‘spirit’ being WHO resides in a physical body, that perishes at death, with the soul/spirit leaving the body, at physical death; then it should not be hard to accept, not necessarily be understood, why the eternal WORD, (Jesus) in His Deity, penetrated TIME and space, and became a MAN, the incarnation, of the WORD, with the TWO natures IN ‘ONE’ person, the GOD-MAN, Christ Jesus, a mystery that cannot be explained with man’s intellect, or reasoned out by limited logic; but, to be accepted by faith, as we cannot fathom, nor will we EVER, in our limited, corrupted, sin-stained hearts, be able to rationalize the Incarnation of the eternal WORD, Jesus, becoming the God-Man, for the express purpose of ‘paying’ the price, for our REDEMPTION, which could Only be accomplished, based on God’s Righteousness and Justice, by God, the WORD, taking on flesh, SINLESS flesh, a body fashioned in the LIKENESS of fallen mankind, and this redemptive purpose could NOT be accomplished, UNLESS, the Second Person of the Truine Godhead, JESUS, became the GOD-MAN! Which HE DID!

    As the Scriptures say, ‘God was IN Christ, reconciling mankind, unto Himself.’

  22. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Bushie. I too glad you warned me of the impending diatribe of cut and paste and that Observing observed the scroll-down button. I was stopped short by the relatively brief Zoe comment immediately above in which he/she has taken to referring to a moron and not an oxymoron. Still no stated position on the subject of this particular blog, so you are clearly right. The abilityt of self-thought has not been included in this seriously flawed robot.

    In all seriousness, I have to tell you that your comments on the Trinity above did actually stop me right in my tracks, which is rare. No one has ever presented it to me in that way and I am fascinated by it and most grateful to you. I think you might be RIGHT!! Very good indeed – BRIEF and not a cut and paste in sight.

    @Kiki. A pleasure as always and a pleasure to look at the YouTube links you have posted. Thank you.

  23. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Amused
    Thank you for bothering to critically review Bushie’s take on the Trinity. really glad that it has caused you to reflect…..

    Zoe is a victim of excessive enthusiasm which unfortunately exceeds his objectivity. Like an over enthusiastic soldier who does not understand the General’s overall battle plan he is easily misled by the self interest of junior officers.

    Most of us are born into a particular religious doctrine, and we then proceed to seek to interpret all the evidence presented in such a way as to SUPPORT that given doctrine. So the same bible miraculously supports Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Adventists, and hundreds of other DIFFERENT sects.
    LOL ….in Bushie’s humble opinion, the most practical scenario is that they are ALL wrong.
    Solution – Go straight to the top and find out the Battle Plan….. Then everything become clear as day…. 🙂

    BTW Zoe
    ..if you would take off the blinkers for a second and re-read your post about the Holy Spirit you will surely see that it makes FAR MORE LOGICAL sense that “The Holy Spirit” is referring to an attribute of God and NOT to an individual person…..

    The “spirit of man” is described as “carnal”, “contentious”, wicked, etc. the spirit of God is Holy. In order for a man to enter the Kingdom of God he must first receive this Holy DNA, which THEN provides that man with the two conflicting spiritual influences so well described by Paul.
    When that man is able to develop and grow the HOLY part of his personality and to suppress the CARNAL, he can be said to have grown up as a son of God, and those who have reached the required stage of development at the time of delivery will, like a human baby, be born into the family of their parents. (NOT ADOPTED ZOE 🙂 )

    LOL… The whole thing makes PERFECT sense. he only thing that cannot be (easily) explained- and must be “accepted”, is the nonsense doctrines like the TRINITY that people like Zoe have allowed themselves to be brainwashed with….

  24. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    It is really AMUSING, to say the least, when, engrossed DARKNESS, specifically ‘spiritual’ darkness, complements DARKNESS!

    Oh, if the light that be in you, IS* darkness, how GREAT is that DARKNESS!

    Always mindful of the fact, that DARKNESS is not something, it is the absence of LIGHT!

  25. Observing(...) Avatar
    Observing(…)

    @Zoe

    amm, so, if there is no light, doesn’t that mean we are left with “something”

    i.e. darkness??

  26. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Hear Jesus:

    “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of ALL nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of The Father, AND of the Son, AND of The Holy Spirit.” ( Matt. 28: 17b-18)

    This one of many passages in Scripture, where the clear distinction between the ‘three’ persons of the Godhead, is unmistakably emphatic.

    And the grammar is also clear, by the use of the ‘definite’ article ‘THE’ before each person is identified, and, ‘AND’ the conjunction, joining EACH identifiable PERSON in the baptizmal ordinance.

    If The Holy Spirit was not a a distinguishable ‘Person’ as is so clearly seen in this and other text, but just an ‘active force’ flowing from the Father, as BT wants to insist, then why is He so identified here by Jesus!

    Also, BT, you are wrong in saying that The Holy Spirit, is an ATTRIBUTE of God, The Holy Spirit convicts men ( John 18:8) An attribute cannot convict anyone!

    The Holy Spirit can be GRIEVED ( Eph. 4:30) You cannot grieve an attribute!

    The Holy Spirit can be lied to ( Acts. 5:3) You cannot lie to an attribute, and the list of such PERSONAL qualities in The Holy Spirit is long.

    Further, the use of NAME in the singular, is extremely significant, as it established ONE God, not THREE Gods, but, the distinction of the THREE distinguishable personages of The Father, AND of The Son, AND of The Holy Spirit.

    And, it WAS ;HE* the Holy Spirit, that divinely INSPIRED this text, as HE* did with ALL Scripture, the Word of God!

  27. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @Zoe: “Hear Jesus

    How?

  28. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Zoe
    “An attribute cannot convict anyone”
    **************
    Bushie would really like to address you in a Dr. Duguidian style, but unfortunately the PERSON who is Bushie’s conscience (since, according to you, an attribute cannot convict) has directed the Bushman to behave otherwise…..

    …but as man! … you does talk some REAL shoite Zoe…. 🙂

    What’s up CH? 🙂

  29. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Zoe
    Since you are an expert at exegesis, can you kindly expound on Romans 8:16; Mathew 10:20 and Peter 1:10.
    It seems that the original Hebrew in these particular texts does not allow for the usual optional selection of pronouns…..

    …keep it short 🙂

  30. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    Shut Zoe Up Its the Sabbath

  31. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    Mango

  32. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @BT: “What’s up CH?

    The usual…

    Bajans are told they’re part of a Democracy, but strangely they can’t get any information about what their government are doing without spending money….

  33. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Chris Halsall | December 7, 2012 at 2:29 PM |

    Welcome back, CH!

    I missed you and was of the mistaken impression that Zoe’s curse of eternal damnation on us had actually infected you. (LOL!!)
    Any way, bienvenidos, mi amigo!

  34. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @MTA: “Welcome back, CH!

    Thanks. I never really went away.

    And please trust me — Zoe is an ignorant twit. I simply had better things to do.

  35. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    There’s 2 Chris Halsall’s on BU

  36. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Chris Halsall | December 7, 2012 at 2:29 PM |
    @Zoe: “Hear Jesus

    How?

    Sorry Halsall, deaf folks like you are unable to HEAR!

  37. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    Sigh… You try to get serious, and then kiki shows up…

    [ted id=1546 width=560 height=315]

  38. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    Hmmm… That didn’t work. Please follow this link.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_how_the_internet_will_one_day_transform_government.html

  39. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Bush Tea | December 7, 2012 at 4:00 PM |
    @ Zoe
    “Since you are an expert at exegesis, can you kindly expound on Romans 8:16; Mathew 10:20 and Peter 1:10.
    It seems that the original Hebrew in these particular texts does not allow for the usual optional selection of pronouns…..

    …keep it short ”

    BT, Man, these text are were not written in Hebrew! You didn’t even know that much!

  40. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Observing(…) | December 7, 2012 at 12:02 PM |
    @Zoe

    “amm, so, if there is no light, doesn’t that mean we are left with “something”

    i.e. darkness??”

    Observing, what is something? Something as a noun, is synonymous to, ENTITY, being, existence, existent, individual, THING!

    Does darkness, NOTHINGNESS, sound like it could be any of the above?

    Hardly!

  41. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    Zoe… So, recently the UN granted “non-member observer state” status to Palestinian.

    What are your considered thoughts on this?

  42. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Zoe
    Answer the damn question and stop behaving like a well known beast of burden.
    ….as Bushie said to GP about Latin, all languages besides English and Spanish are Hebrew/ Greek to the bushman….

    No doubt this is a question you would prefer not to address… 🙂

  43. David Avatar
    David

    Why did Barbados abstain from the UN vote?

    On 7 December 2012 22:43, Barbados Underground

  44. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe:

    When you last visited Hell did you see the man who wrote the following dismissals of your superstition writhing in agony from the flames of torment?

    “Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter”. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

    “The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any book that ever existed.” [Thomas Paine]

    “As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men. [Thomas Paine]
    “It is far better that we admitted a thousand devils to roam at large than that we permitted one such imposter and monster as Moses, Joshua, Samuel, and the Bible prophets, to come with the pretended word of God and have credit among us.” [Thomas Paine]

  45. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    @Zoe | December 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM |

    “Does darkness, NOTHINGNESS, sound like it could be any of the above?”

    Actually Zoe… the latest theory on darkness suggests that it has mass and is actually heavier than light. That is why the deeper you go in the ocean the darker it gets… all the darkness sinks to the bottom while the light floats to the top. The theory also explains how electric bulbs really work…. they don’t emit light, they suck dark out of the room … the friction of the dark mass rushing into the bulb causes it to get hot…. unless of course you have a dark-sucking-diode (DSD) which sucks dark far more efficiently… hic… now where did I put that extra old…

  46. ac Avatar
    ac

    miller after you last post i am convined your are the DEVIL.

  47. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | December 7, 2012 at 9:12 PM |

    “miller after you last post i am convined your are the DEVIL.”

    With OSA sitting on my right and David T on my left. You want to play the role of wicked Mary the political prostitute?

  48. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @MTA: “With OSA sitting on my right and David T on my left. You want to play the role of wicked Mary the political prostitute?

    Very well played.

    It’s a little sad you have to reference a dead man, and an almost dead man, to make your point.

  49. ac Avatar
    ac

    hell no mill how can one condemen a book to eternal damnation because of a few misguded lunatics who see themselves as the the intrepretators of archaic laws and customs when there are golden nuggets written within the pages of that book that directs man lives into a positive way of living. like ,Thou shat not steal! Thou shall not commit adultery! honour your mother! Thou shall notbe corrupt! Hell no miller life is not that simple there is a need for laws and rules to guide the insatiable thirst for man to be corrupt especially in the House of Parliament.

  50. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @Chris Halsall | December 7, 2012 at 9:23 PM |

    The only way to get to Heaven or Hell is through death’s door. Not so?
    But I maybe wrong because Zoe told us he is always visiting Hell and taking back messages from Satan to his god in heaven.
    Sounds more like Bishop Granville Williams who claims he sees god regularly. But then again he is always looking up in the heavens trying to see the Sun.

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