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Alcohol More Dangerous Than Illegal Drugs Like Heroin States Recent UK Study

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A recent study out of the United kingdom concludes ‘Alcohol is more dangerous than illegal drugs like heroin, ecstasy and crack cocaine, according to a new study.’ From limited reports the study rated alcohol the most dangerous substance ‘based on the overall dangers to the individual and society as a whole’.  The study was led by Professor David Nutt, the former government drugs adviser who was sacked for criticising the then Labour government’s decision to upgrade cannabis from class C to class B.

What is evident to BU, the matter of how drugs are classified and managed is based on economic structures embedded  in so-called developed societies. Those who would dare to buck the system will have to negotiate the weight of the establishment.

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105 responses to “Alcohol More Dangerous Than Illegal Drugs Like Heroin States Recent UK Study”

  1. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Zion

    Tell me this. If we were pitching marbles, how would we compare them? Not by size or color or design. Would we not find some particular parameter by which to effect a comparison?

    If we were comparing beaches…….wont we do the same?
    When we are comparing drugs or other xenobiotics we need to have some parameters by which to compare them too.

    Whenever one is introduced to a drug they should make it a habit to ascertain the following parameters about the drug.
    1] Generic or chemical name & Proprietary or brand name(s)
    2] Chemical structure
    3] Mechanism of action
    4] Adsorption, Distribution, Metabolism & Excretion of the drug [A D M E]
    5] Onset of action.
    6] Duration of action
    7] Half life (ti/2
    8] Its effects
    9] Indications or clinical uses
    10) Side effects or adverse reactions
    11] Contraindications
    12] Drug Interactions
    13] Dosage/Preparations
    14] Advantages Or Disadvantages

    Sometimes your pharmacist will leave the information sheet that comes with the drug prescribed for you, and you will find the information is set orderly in this way.

    If quacks who parade their ignoramus behind the appelation MD will stick closely to such a protocol and think about these parameters and apply them to thier individual patients, they will not be sued, unless the patient has a drug idiosyncrasy.

    See if you can pick some sense out of the above information given to you by a quack parading their ignoramus behind the appelation of MD .

  2. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Wow….

    I see the BU Dick Measuring Competition is in the Knockout stages.

    *SMH*

  3. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    mr zion
    I have asked David to post my ppt on things you must know when considering using a drug. I hope that you will be able to apply this information in your personal use of medications and in that of your relatives …………..as well as to this “discussion.”

  4. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    THanks . G.P.

  5. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @GP. What’s the matter, man? Like a Nutt gone and cracked your nuts.

  6. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @GP. One other thing, I suggest that the use of the phrase “ad hominem” exhibits a certain self-accusation on your part. Here is a little tidbit from Wikipedia on the subject:

    “Ad hominem abuse
    Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.”

    So, GP, I would say that this sums you up perfectly on this issue. Ad hominem and, in your case, ad nauseam.

  7. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Now can you contribute to the substance of the debate? Can you get into the meat of the matter? Why is alcohol more or less dangerous? Is frequency of use or dosage the issue? Or is it addiction? Does drug tolerance come into play?

    Or can you only use ad hominems? Do you have the betz cells to allow you.

    If Crusoe was around he would be making a worthy contribution.

  8. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @GP. To quote David, “you may have the last word”.

  9. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    Porgie
    you nawty, nawty buoy. How dare you call my Amused an animal. Why you nawty, nawty buoy.
    And pray tell me what a vet is? Not a doc too? you crazeeeee, Dr. Boobie.

    Amused
    Dawlinks, how could you take dat sittin down? You know i love your rebuttals. Now take GP to shreds for calling you such. He said that he’s a doctor, not a vet.

  10. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    Bonny Peppa, How Tomas treat you girl? A hope you and your family came away intact. Now, Bunny you mischievious bad girl. Amused already rest is case. I too already give the goodly doctor the last word.

  11. David Avatar
    David

    Here is the presentation promised by Doc GP in PDF format.

  12. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    Zion 1971
    LOLLLLL. Tomas is no match fa me man. I is a fiah-galash so all Tomas do is tek way ma watah since Sat’da. Yes, I in had na watah since Sat’da but when I hare ’bout de deafs in Vincie-Land n St.Lucia, I ree-a-lise how forchunit we did.
    Are you bajan Zion? Just askin in case you don’t understand my lingo.If not, I will try to use de Standard wid ya.

    Anyway, I doan want Amused ta rest he case wid PG. I want he ta thra sum warm licks in he pooch man.
    I is a instigata.

    Amused
    muahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ya swoite thang.

  13. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Page 13 of Barbadostoday “Kamla holding back aid” “will not help countries hit by Tomas without benefits to T&T.

    David, please let us discuss this soon.

  14. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    Bonny I am half bajan. Bajan on my mother side. Don’t worry girl I understand the lingo.

  15. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    GP

    I can cite including a class mate at HC who used the stuff at St Augustine and returned home a complete misfit!
    ************************************
    There are two people I know who the above applied to and were at Kolij during your time. If you are speaking about DC, he died in September

  16. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    Zion 1971
    You is half-bajan? Ya got ma cryinnnnnnnn. So you got a split personality too? LOLLLLLLL
    And wah de otha half a you is? Guyanese? And which part a you born hay? Top haff or bottom haff? LOLLLLLLLLL

    Hants
    Kamla statement got me cafuffle too? We mussy tekkin it outta context ya. I hope so. But it in she dat sah dat TnT in na ATM machine fa de C/bean?I doan kno bout you but sumtimes when I ga ta my ATM, um does be bare like mudda-hubbard cubbard but um is a ATM machine nevva de less. Sumbody betta remind she quik dat, ‘no man is an island, no man stands alone’. In times of crisis we would got ta help out we nabours. stupseeeeeeeeeeee

  17. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @ Dr. GP

    You are a ‘hilariter’. What an interesting discussion. You were truly on a roll. I have learned a lot. I will add some more of those questions to my list for my Dr. next time she prescribes some medication. Of course I get the fact sheet from the pharmacist and I also look up info on line, but my Dr. is good at doling out the data when the prescribes. She always says to come back immediately if any side affects occur.

    If heroin is not dangerous, how come people who take it cant stop and always end up looking like cadavers? (The same goes for cocaine and its derivative ‘crack’. ) If they try to quit without medical assistance some of them die from the withdrawal symptoms? I think all drugs have bad effects. It just depends on how much you use, how often and how the body reacts to its. All drugs are also, in my opinion, addictive. I include cigarettes and alcohol all the way up to heroin and some prescribed drugs. I know people who are addicted to the ‘coca’ in coca cola!

    Eagerly awaiting your next PPP.

  18. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Bonny. But GP is right, as you know – I AM an animal – you said so yourself the last time we met pon the back of your convertable bicycle. But GP too is a animal, of the jackass variety. So we must let him bray away ad hominem and meanwhile, chile, I smoked some real nice weed earlier and it got muh mellow and I sitting here with a big-as-ass glass of Tropicana orange juice and a bag of dry roasted nuts (not GP’s that Dr Nutt cracked for him, these called Planters). Later, I going inside and see if the grandchildren left any of that iced cake from Big B. Life is sweet.

  19. Duh Avatar
    Duh

    People may find the following two charts from the bbc instructive from http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2010/11/drugs_debate_hots_up.html

    Society and user harms
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/0140673610614626fig2.jpg

    Components
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/0140673610614626fig4.jpg

  20. Doc Avatar
    Doc

    Hi, GP.

    I was saying that your account of the negative effects of cannabis seemed to be an edge case. Total disintegration and suicide doesn’t seem to be a mainstream result of cannabis use, nor even a common endpoint among those who suffer cannabis-related ill effects.

    I further note that you haven’t really substantiated your own position, or even clarified it, and that your posts in this thread seemed to consist mainly of attacks on other people. I eagerly await a clarification of your position on cannabis and alcohol, with substantiation, and I would be delighted if you could do so without further attacks.

    GP, there is much debate about the nature and mechanism of alcohol’s cardioprotective reduction in coronary heart disease, and to whether this effect is stronger for some forms of alcohol than for others.

    Current consensus, however, is that the effect is clearly present.
    http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/11/3023

    GP, when I say that most of the dangers currently associated with heroin are a result of its prohibited status, I mean just that. Heroin is a potentially dangerous drug made massively more dangerous by prohibition. Prohibition increases drug-associated crime, eliminates the user’s ability to properly assess dose, and allows dealers to freely use toxic adulterants. This results in greatly heightened drug-related dangers.

    The facts on this issue are actually fairly clear and uncontroversial, when we cut through the propaganda, social reactionism, and political posturing.

    The current drug war is a tremendous threat to public safety, and it should be abandoned in its current form.

    I look forward to your considered, substantiated reply.

  21. Doc Avatar
    Doc

    @Pat, I’m not sure that anyone in this discussion has said that heroin or cocaine are not dangerous. What has been said is that
    (1) alcohol is more dangerous than heroin;
    (2) heroin’s danger (to the individual and to wider society) is increased by prohibition.

    With regard to withdrawal symptoms, heroin’s withdrawal is nasty and unpleasant, but not particularly dangerous. You shake, sneeze, you vomit, you have cold sweats and muscle aches and diarrhoea… and in a couple of days you’re fine. Medical treatment can suppress these symptoms, but even without medical supervision, you don’t die.

    Cocaine withdrawal is more mentally dangerous than physically dangerous. There’s a hyperactive, jittery paranoia that I got very accustomed to seeing, which is a prominent feature of cocaine withdrawal. It doesn’t kill you, unless you are running away from paranoid fears and you run under a bus.

    Alcohol and Valium, on the other hand… withdrawal from that stuff regularly kills people. It can involve all the symptoms of cocaine or heroin withdrawal, but usually doctors are more concerned with preventing the progression to fatal seizures, not seen with the other drugs.

    It’s not really true that all drugs are addictive; but it is true that some drugs (including caffeine) can be more addictive than people think.

  22. Duh Avatar
    Duh

    I think harmful is what is talked about in the original report from Prof. Nutt, which has a slightly different meaning from dangerous.

  23. Doc Avatar
    Doc

    Good links, Duh— and good point. 🙂

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @Sargeant
    Re There are two people I know who the above applied to and were at Kolij during your time. If you are speaking about DC, he died in September

    There was a well to do fellow from Worthing, and a lad who came from Foundation. He was a fast bowler. I cant even remember his name now but I last saw him walking aimlessly in the the St Augustine area in St George a few yeas ago.

  25. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Pat
    I am glad that you have learned a lot from the ppt. I have not forgotten you I will send it later. I am glad that your doctor is good at educating you about the drugs you are prescribed.

  26. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Doc
    Thanks for commenting and you must continue to comment on such issues on BU.

    Heroin is biochemically or pharmacologically dangerous or it is not!
    You can complicate issues with your chatter on its
    prohibited status.

    I note that you ” further note that you haven’t really substantiated your own position, or even clarified it, and that your posts in this thread seemed to consist mainly of attacks on other people.”
    Did you also note that besides Pat’s Sageants. Duh, and yours that all the others were attacks on me BUT NONE OF THEM ADDED ANYTHING TO THE DEBATE?

  27. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    @ Bonny peppa. The other half is Kittitian. My mother is the Lovell’s. Yes chile me was born in BIM but a left when me was 17 years old.

  28. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    zION
    HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO ST KITTS?

  29. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @Sargeant
    Re There are two people I know who the above applied to and were at Kolij during your time. If you are speaking about DC, he died in September

    OK SARGE. I think you are referring to two ex Foundation lads who came to Kolij for 6th form. They were both good cricketers and both actually represented UWI vs the 1973 Australians at MONA. The one whom you call DC had the nick name that meant “not straight” and was a very good left handed batsman . Didnt know he was involved. Have not seen him since 1970. The other is the fast bowler I mentioned earlier- “C.O.”A . Both nice chaps with great talent, cricket- wise, and academically.

    Its a shame what the weed did to them in Trinidad.

  30. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    D.r. G.P. My father and I wasn’t close and he passed away 10 years ago. I have only been to St. kitts twice and that was years ago. Actually my father was borned in Gingerland on Nevis, but grew up in Sandy point on St.Kitts.

  31. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    My father was the ‘true caribbean man’ who fathered 10 kids on three different islands. St. Kitts (6), Barbados (2) , Jamaica (3).

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    OK interesting.
    I taught down there for 5 months in 2002 at what turned out to be a bogus med school ran by a set of men from all parts of the globe. Never did so little for so much money. But I enjoyed my time with some friends I made in the church and the simple lifestyle.
    St kitts is the capital for bogus med schools. I have helped to close down at least twom and have had another at the brink for a few years.

  33. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ GP…

    Its a shame what the weed did to them in Trinidad.

    I am always curious as to how ppl know what drug these guys took.
    Seriously, where you there when these guys were using?
    We had a very talented jockey who went to Trinidad for a race meet. He won (I think) 6 out of 8 races and placed 2nd in one. He went out with the other jockeys and was ne ver himself since. You used to see him around the Fairchild St Terminal but he has since died. He came from Brittons Hill.
    Friends of his said he tried a ‘blackie’ which is smoked but is not weed (cannabis). He was never the same after that night.
    So when you say you are sorry what the weed did to him, are you certain that all he used was cannabis?
    If not, then there is more to his condition that weed use.

  34. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I have a class mate who smoked with them initially but quit…….. and they smoked weed.

    But your question is not an unreasonable one, just as I am only hearing that alcohol is more dangerous than illegal drugs states recent UK study- BUT THEY HAVE NOT SAID HOW. They have not said what liver damage etc the others do.

  35. Zion1971 Avatar
    Zion1971

    Dr. GP I heard about the Diploma mills. Antigua is famous for attracting these ‘University ‘ also.

  36. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @ Dr. GP

    In slide 12, what does CHF stand for? How come a beta blocker is called ace-butolol? Thanks, Pat.

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hi Pat
    CHF = CONGESTED HEAET FAILURE
    In slide I said…….Clearly we will not go around committing to memory the chemical structures of all the preparations we use.
    But it helps when some one presents to us with some vials of medication, and the labels state ****lol or ****tidine or ***pril.
    We immediately realize that the patient is taking respectively, a Beta blocker, an H2 antagonist for a stomach ailment, or an ACE inhibitor.

    i.e if you visited a relative and the name of thier RX ends in –****lol, they are probably on a beta blocker of which PROPANO-LOL is the prtotype.
    If the labels state ****tidine they are probably on a H2 antagonist like cimetidine or ranitidine
    If the labels state ***pril they are probably on an ACE inhibitor.

    Hope that clarifies things

  38. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Pat
    re Slide 6 note that paracetamol (acetamenophen) which is available in the Caribbean, and marketed as Tylenol in the USA IS A VERY DANGEROUS DRUG.

    If you have relatives or friends with little children and grandchildren teach them that they should especially keep this drug out of reach! An overdose can be very fatal!

  39. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Pat
    I believe that you would be able to make sense of the below with regard to the debate in this thread.

    In the context of the argument by looking at the structures of alcohol or the other drugs we can predict a lot about their metabolism in the liver or even if it is likely to cross the blood brain barrier and enter the brain.

    By looking at the structures of alcohol or the other drugs we can predict if the drug is soluble or not in water or in lipids. This will tell us much a bout which tissues it can enter, and how the kidney is likely to handle any unchanged drug that reaches it.

    The Mechanism of action tells us HOW the drug works, i,e the way by which it exerts is effect(s). This is very important information because it allows us to make intelligent decisions for employing the drug from a physiological perspective, but it also enables to compare drugs for their degree of danger.

    Adsorption, Distribution, Metabolism & Excretion of the drug [A D M E] Knowledge of the method of adsorption ( the method by which the drugs gets into the circulation to exert an effect) allows us to use the appropriate route of administration of the drug to achieve our particular immediate aim. We can also use this information to compare drugs for their degree of danger. If the drug is poorly absorbed by the methods by which it is taken, it clearly can not be dangerous.

    If the drug is well absorbed by inhalation it can reach several areas of the body in high concentrations (especially) the lungs, before undergoes the first by pass effect through the liver where some of it is likely to be destroyed.

    Knowledge of the method of the drugs distribution and thus its concentration or drug levels in the circulation at any point in time, allows us to compare where the drug goes in the body, and allows us to compare how dangerous it is likely to be. With respect to the drugs under discussion is it distributed to the brain; and in what concentrations?

    Knowledge of the drugs metabolism allows us to compare how dangerous it is likely to be, also. Is the drug metabolized preferentially in the liver, or is it metabolized preferentially in the kidney. Clearly if the abuser already has a liver or kidney problem, the drug becomes even more dangerous immediately.

    Knowledge of the drugs excretion (the route in which the drug is cleared form the body ) allows us to make an assessment about the relative danger of the drug Clearly if the abuser already has a kidney problem, the drug becomes even more dangerous immediately.

    The Onset of action of a drug is the amount of time it takes a drug to begin working. The onset of action of a drug may be influenced by its route of administration. Knowing the onset of action of the drugs under consideration might help to more accurately determine its degree of danger.

    The Duration of action of a drug is the length of time for which the drug has its therapeutic effect. The duration of action usually corresponds to the half life of the drug [except when the drug binds irreversibly to its receptor] and is dependent on metabolism and excretion of the drug. The duration of Drug Action – can continue just until an agonist leaves or is removed from a receptor
    • – or can continue after an agonist leaves or is removed, when a coupled effector is still active in the cell
    • – in the case of covalently bound drug/receptor complexes or combinations, may be required to be destroyed before the action stops
    Clearly we need to compare the duration of action of the effects of the drugs under consideration before we can make an OBJECTIVE ASSESSMENT OF WHICH DRUG IS MORE DANGEROUS PHARMACOLOGICALLY AND BIOCHEMICALLY.

    The half life of a drug (t1/2) is an expression used to describe the rate at which a drug is removed from the body.It is the time it takes half of the drug to be cleared by the body metabolizing the drug. The half life of a drug is the time taken for the amount of drug in the body [or the blood or plasma concentration] to decline to half its value, and is related to the elimination rate constant by tl/2 0.693/k. The half life provides an estimate of the time required to reduce by one half the quantity of drug present in a particular body compartment (e.g. the plasma). Not only is a knowledge of the half life of a drug is valuable in allowing a comparison between the elimination rates of several drugs, it is also useful in establishing THE RELATIVE DANGER OF A NUMBER OF DRUGS. The half life of a drug depends simultaneously on both the clearance rate (inversely) and the volume of distribution (directly). Thus if the clearance rate is large the half life is shortened; if the volume of distribution is large, the half life is LONGER. So clearly a knowledge of the half life of a drug is valuable in allowing a comparison between the elimination rates of several drugs, it is also useful in establishing THE RELATIVE DANGER OF A NUMBER OF DRUGS. Note that if the drug is not eliminated it will accumulate and be distributed in the body.

  40. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @Dr. GP

    Thanks, I understand the above. So, if you snort cocaine, it goes to the brain quickly before the liver. Likewise if you inject heroin it goes through the blood stream where some is most likely absorbed in the organs, etc., before going to the liver. Now, is any of those drugs excreted through the kidneys?

    I know of people (from reading) who died from first intake of narcotics (heroin, cocaine). However, it seems to me that, binge drinking, that is, a quart or more of hard liquor in a short space of time gives alcohol poisioning and thus kills the person as well. I know how alcohol is converted and absorbed in the body. Do you have any slides on the hard drugs? Anything off the top of your head will do.

    By the way, your points on the research methods were spot on. They are similar in the social sciences. The data must be reliable, from a defined population and the results valid and reproduceable. Depending on the study you can even use control groups. But I have not done any of that in years and have no intention of hitting the books for this discussion. If the honourable Professor Nutt had done a review of existing literature (empirical studies), and stated this at the outset of his paper, I guess you would not have had any problems with his conclusion if he proved it to be valid. But, c’est la vie.

  41. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ Pat
    Many/most drugs are excreted through the kidneys— if it is functioning. You do know that some drugs damage the kidney.

    It is true that binge drinking, that is, a quart or more of hard liquor in a short space of time gives alcohol poisioning and thus kills the person as well. We did a ppt on alcohol. Perhaps David could link it here. No I don’t have any ppts on the hard drugs, since I have not taught on these.

    Re By the way, your points on the research methods were spot on. They are similar in the social sciences. The data must be reliable, from a defined population and the results valid and reproduceable. Depending on the study you can even use control groups

    This is what I meant when I said that I knew I was correct. But besides you, it does not seem that any one who came here especially to attack me and what I said, understand these principles.

    I agree with you too that Nut should have done a review of existing literature (empirical studies), and stated this at the outset of his paper . Clearly to just spout out that alcohol is more dangerous than other drugs was irresponsible, especially when we know most folk don’t research most of what they read to see if it is true or not.

  42. David Avatar
    David

    Here is the earlier presentation on alcohol – A Drug Humankind Has Been Socialized To Imbibe

  43. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @ David, thanks.

    @Dr. GP – Some people may not be aware of how research is conducted and how important documentation and references are. In the SS we use Content Analysis (literature review), Participatory Observation and Survey Analysis. Some times we use Content Analysis of previous studies to help validate our findings in the other methods. I did this type of research for about 5 years in the 80’s.
    With the Life Sciences I suppose it is mainly clinical studies with a control group in most cases. I have a question re a medical problem of a friend that I will send you under separate cover by private e-mail.

  44. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @Pat
    If folk dont know —–they should be willing to listen and possibly learn instead of shooting thier mouths off trying to demean and denigrate those who know what they are talking about.
    It is noteworthy that the so called Doc and his side kick Duh have gone speechless. Cant they copy and paste anything from the internet? Hilarious!

  45. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    GP wrote “If folk dont know —–they should be willing to listen”.

    Wake up GP.

    When folk dont know they just shout louder.

  46. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    No Hants all the bright boys I have met when they didnt know they went quiet as they thought about the issues presented. They spoke only when they had something of substance to say. They knew that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to open and remove all doubt.

  47. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Mr. Georgie Porgie…

    If I May, a few simple questions in relation to your above…

    1. Would you ever advise a patient to accept advice from someone who would not put their real name and reputation behind their advice?

    2. Did Jesus ever work anonymously?

    3. Why, if you personally are so strong in your knowledge and position, do you not have the balls to stand up and to put your real name behind what you say?

    Simple questions…

    But… I have an empirical (heuristical) expectation that you will ignore these valid questions.

    Please prove me wrong.

  48. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @GP: “…all the bright boys I have met when they didnt know they went quiet as they thought about the issues presented.

    Thinking is always good. But didn’t any of them ask questions?

    @GP: “They knew that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to open and remove all doubt.

    And this is why you and yours are so afraid of asking questions (or admitting that you don’t know every answer for certain).

    God forbid you admit you might not know the absolute truth about everything. Even though absolute knowledge is only God’s purview….

  49. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    ok GP. When folk on BU dont know they just “shout” louder or write to provoke you.Don’t mind topher Hassol.

    It is more fun blogging undercover. Works for me.
    to besides people does misspell names bout hey.lol

  50. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hants
    Your answer indicates that at some point in your life you sat down under a certain sandbox tree – now cut down. It indicates that your brain was once nourished by the combination of ice cold “mud” and Mary pone! Bravo!

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