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Beware Of Cervical Cancer Vaccine Gardasil!

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New England Journal of Medicine states there is "good reason to be cautious." – Click on Image

According to the Barbados Government Website the incidence of cervical cancer in the Caribbean is increasing at a rate of 33 new cases annually. It seems that this is a very unflattering statistic which is four or five times higher than that of North America. Last year Dr Eltora Bennett, an obstetrician and gynaecologist reported that the cases of cervical cancer were not declining. She urged the women to engage in early screening, what is commonly referred to as the getting a ‘pap smear’ to protect against cervical cancer.

Bennett explained that despite the easy access to pap smears “we have been seeing about 30 cases of cancer of the cervix per year and that has been constant now” for more than a decade. Cancer of the cervix is a sexually transmitted disease linked to the human papilloma virus (HPV) but early detection through screening can lead to effective treatment. HPV can infect the genital area of men and women, including the skin of the penis, the area outside the vagina in women or the rectum. The incidence of the disease is unacceptably high in Barbados and that’s a fact, she said.

Source: Nation Newspaper

Dr. Bennett went on to explain in the October 2007 Nation Newspaper report that Barbados was moving ahead with the introduction of the Merck Pharmaceutical vaccine Gardisil. According to Dr. Bennet “arcisil prevents the development of the precursors to cervical cancer. In other words, it prevents women from developing cervical cancer. It immunises her against the human papiloma virus,” BU checked with a few local pharmacies and verified that the vaccine Gardasil is currently not available – Please note the spelling of the vaccine by the Nation Newspaper is incorrect!

In light of the above we found a recent story submitted by BU family member Carson Cadogan worthy of highlight. We hope the BU family will investigate and share feedback because the scourge of cervical cancer must be tackled through education. The substance of the story which was published in the prestigious New England Journal suggest the following:

  • First, Gardasil’s long-term effectiveness is unclear. Because cervical cancer takes years to develop, critics say the current information is insufficient to determine whether Gardasil works. Bottom of Form “The overall effect of the vaccines on cervical cancer remains unknown,” Dr. Carolyn J. Haug, the Journal of Norwegian Medical Association’s editor, wrote in the New England Journal editorial. “The real impact of HPV vaccination on cervical cancer will not be observable for decades.”
  • Gardasil is also expensive, costing about $400 to $1,000 for the necessary three doses of the vaccine. Studies have not proven how long the immunity will last and whether or not additional shots will be needed, which would raise the cost even higher.
  • And it’s not a slam dunk. The vaccine only protects against some of the viruses that cause cervical cancer, so women still need regular pap.

Source: ABC News

The BU family has discussed a similar issue before regarding how unsuspecting patients can protect themselves from less than state of the art drugs. Is the vaccine Gardasil another one of those drugs which flatters to deceive?

Related Link

Barbadians Should Be Vigilant When Filling Prescription Drugs

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121 responses to “Beware Of Cervical Cancer Vaccine Gardasil!”

  1. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ROK wrote

    David, I have to draw your attention to this reality which may have been lost in my volume of comments:

    Congressman Dan Burton (R-Indiana) during Congressional Hearing: “You mean to tell me that since 1929, we’ve been using Thimerosal, and the only test that you know of is from 1929, and every one of those people had mennigitis, and they all died?”

    ================================
    Exactly!

    Should we then follow blindly what is done in the USA?

  2. David Avatar
    David

    @ROK

    Oh Shoot!?!

  3. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @GP

    First thank you for a polite response to my questions.

    However, your statement,

    “Unlike breast cancer, cervical cancer has never been associated with family history.”

    is not in accordance with the American Cancer Society who clearly state “family history” is a risk factor

    I have no reason to doubt you that the cancer may be non existent in virgins but my question is of a little more practical value.

    Is it only promiscuous women who get cervical cancer?

    If not, then the lifestyle you recommend would not help them. In principle a vaccine would save their lives.

    Are promiscuous women not deserving of an effective vaccine because it was their “lifestyle choice”?

    You also wrote :

    “The information on the vaccine is inconclusive with respect to its efficacy. ”

    Now I assume you are referring to its efficacy against cancer, but later your wrote :

    “The vaccine only protects against some of the viruses that cause cervical cancer”

    Since you admit the vaccine is effective against the viruses (which account for 70% of the cancer) why do you oppose its use?

    It may or may not ultimately reduce cervical cancer but if it does do what it claims to do (vaccinate against the viruses) why oppose it?

    If it by your own admission does what it claims to do (against the virus) why do you say we cannot depend on the FDA? is the FDA corrupt?

    How did it get approval in so many countries? are their regulatory bodies corrupt too?

    Are you aware that this vaccine was not invented by Big Pharma and not only Big Pharma will enjoy the profits?

  4. Brian Avatar
    Brian

    http://hummingbunny.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/heading-off-a-disaster/

    This post I did back in July was about vaccines and autism. Despite the medical profession’s stance that vaccines are safe, there are deaths from vaccines. Whether there are less deaths than if children got sick is open to debate.

    As for autism, no study has found a link between vaccines and autism, but as more and more vaccines are given to younger and younger children, the rate of autism has gone up.

  5. Dr Boobie Avatar
    Dr Boobie

    If you were not so focused on contradicting GP you will note that in many of your questions, he was quoting other sources .

    Did you not know that the FDA was corrupt? Thats stale news!

    Why should GP know how every country in the world regulates its drugs.

    Why dont you direct your questions to the American Cancer Society?

  6. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hi Brian,

    That link is very useful in more ways than one. This caught my attention:

    “The public is now getting lots of medical propaganda about the eradication of smallpox through vaccination. But in fact, the consensus among leading medical historians that have studied the question have maintained that the eradication of the zymotic, or “filth” diseases, like cholera, dysentery, typhus, plague, in the past that are popularly attributed to mass vaccination campaigns, had actually been due to improvements in diet, hygiene, sanitary measures, non-medical public health laws, and to a host of new non-medical technologies, like refrigeration, faster transportation, removing horse manure from cities, and the like (McKinlay, 1977; McKeown, 1979; Moberg & Cohen, 1991; Oppenheimer, 1992; Dubos, 1959).”

    “Not only had poor sanitation and nutrition lain the foundation for disease, it was also compulsory smallpox vaccination campaigns in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that played a major role in decimating the populations of Japan (48,000 deaths), England and Wales (44,840 deaths, after 97 percent of the population had been vaccinated), Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Holland, Italy, India (3 million — all vaccinated), Australia, Germany (124,000 deaths), Prussia (69,000 deaths — all re-vaccinated), and the Philippines. The epidemics ended in cities where smallpox vaccinations were either discontinued or never begun, and also after sanitary reforms were instituted (most notably in Munich — 1880, Leicester — 1878, Barcelona — 1804, Alicante — 1827, India — 1906, etc).”

    The question is, how much of these vaccinations can we safely do without? Let me say that in Barbados the children of people of certain religions including Rastafarians have been exempted from immunisation. Do we have any figures to show how these have feared against these diseases?

  7. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Brian, that article is something else. I hope you have access to the evidence in the latter half of it, because I would like to see it.

  8. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    People of the Barbados Underground, I have been struggling with the information I shared today and more for several months now.

    I know a person who told me that she found herself in a wheelchair after getting a vaccination. Thinking of the pain of losing young vibrant healthy lives to asthma (one went day before) and the strong prevalence of it, one is left to wonder if mandatory vaccinations are necessary?

    The information I have received so far suggests that it is folly to make these things mandatory, especially in light of the information contained in David’s article which analyses the history.

    There is but one matter before I forget; apart from the mercury, could there be any danger from the living organisms in the vaccination which we are putting in the body? Are all vaccinations based on injecting a live mild form of disease and to what extent is there a build up of organisms (not sure how paracitical either) which can impact the health of the body?

    Incidentally, the mercury links vaccinations to autism, not so?

    Back on track. My problem is that to do away with this mandatory law, the Minister of Health would have to make a recommendation to the Ministry of Education, or the doctors would have to rise up and keep some noise.

    In terms of the former, the question would be whether or not the Minister and the medical fraternity are so steeped in Western medicine as to as to not consider the evidence against mandatory vaccinations?

    Why? I believe that this is a human rights issue and that people should be given the choice and counselled all the way. People should also be aware of what is happening to them because I have seen a case where a person who was not sure if they were vaccinated and got a second vaccination that caused problems.

    Mandatory vaccinations can be excused in times of crisis and even then, people will choose life and the mandatory thing is not necessary, but outside of that mandatory vaccinations would have to be considered as an invasion of the person.

    Can we say that these diseases are treatable and preventable in these times and do not warrant vaccinations since they do not pose a threat of outbreak or plague?

    This is a matter I would like to put to the Government; to stop the folly. Of course the evidence would have to be presented.

  9. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Amused
    If promiscuous women wish to get the vaccine. no one is suggesting that they should not.
    What I believe many of these posts are suggesting is that it should not be pushed on 12 year old girls. The value of them is not proved and there are risks involved.

  10. Dr Boobie Avatar
    Dr Boobie

    @ ROK

    There is a need for serious collusion between the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Health with respect to a proper or more advanced system of Public Health Education.

    The doctors have to resist being controlled by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

    Cancer of the uterine cervix can be prevented and treated without the use of vaccines as it has for decades.

    If you read the comments of the doctor in the Nation article referred to, the current incidence is due to the fact that women are not coming to be screened.

    The easy way out is not vaccination. It is costly and with risks!

  11. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Dr. Boobie

    “The doctors have to resist being controlled by the Pharmaceutical Industry.”

    Maybe it is the intelligence within the pharmaceutical industry that allows it to control the doctors; They know more??? Or are they the bridge between the practitioner and research & production?

  12. Dr Boobie Avatar
    Dr Boobie

    The Pharm D’s etc probably know more about the chemistry and Pharmacology than the doctors. They are indeed the bridge between the practitioner and research & production.

    But doctors should take the time to think about what they are doing with a drug. What do I want to achieve? Why am I using the drug? Does the drug fit my need.

    If I have your hypertension controlled on Drug A, why should I change it to Drug B, because the drug rep or company offers me a trip to Timbuktu?

    All hypertension is not the same and wont respond to the same drugs.

    For example we have an equation that

    BP (blood pressure) = HR (heart rate) x CO (cardiac output)

    SO then I can change you BP by changing your HR or your CO.

    Since CO= stroke volume X peripheral resistance

    BP = HR X stroke volume X peripheral resistance

    In some cases reducing the HR is good (effected by beta blockers) but some times reducing HR may reduce the stoke volume ( that is the amount of blood the heart puts out ay each stroke) is not good.

    You have to think of all these things.

    Since I left medical school, the number of available drugs has probably doubled. Most doctors dont keep up with what is available but rely on the biased information or propaganda doled out by the drug reps.

    Of course the internet helps a lot these days to readily give the available propaganda, but you really have to make time to read other necessary information if you will be on top of your game.

  13. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    What happens is that the Pharm industry chaps come up with a formula that seems to be good for X disease and they test it.

    They might develop a better version of an existing drug by tweaking a previously made drug. e.g the first “tidine” was Cimetidine (Tagemet) but this drugs is famous for its drug interactions. It also causes gynaecomatia in men. So in the attempt to find a better drug against acid in the stomach the Pharm industry made Ranitidine and Famotidine etc.

    All of them will help with acid in your stomach, but by changing the chemical structure slightly they can decrease some of the side effects.

    They are a number of beta blockers, because the Pharm industry was seeking to make one that will act only on beta receptors in the heart without affecting beta receptors in the lungs— so that these drugs could be used for asthmatics.

  14. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    Here is the propaganda from the National Cancer Institute in the US :

    “Widespread vaccination has the potential to reduce cervical cancer deaths around the world by as much as two-thirds, if all women were to take the vaccine and if protection turns out to be long-term. In addition, the vaccines can reduce the need for medical care, biopsies, and invasive procedures associated with the follow-up from abnormal Pap tests, thus helping to reduce health care costs and anxieties related to abnormal Pap tests and follow-up procedures ”

    They also say:

    “Because Gardasil does not protect against all HPV types, Pap tests to screen for cervical cancer continue to be essential to detect cervical cancers and precancerous changes. In addition, Pap tests are critically important for women who have not been vaccinated or are already infected with HPV.”

    They also admit :

    “The duration of immunity is not yet known. Research is being conducted to find out how long protection will last. Studies thus far have shown that Gardasil can provide protection against HPV 16 for 4 years. Studies with Cervarix showed protection from infection with both HPV 16 and 18 for more than 4 years.”

    I suppose they are corrupt too, what do I know, I am just a twit.

  15. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    Dr B,

    When you write :

    “Cancer of the uterine cervix can be prevented and treated without the use of vaccines as it has for decades…..the current incidence is due to the fact that women are not coming to be screened…..The easy way out is not vaccination. It is costly and with risks!”

    Even an ignorant, twit, fool and joker like me can understand and agree with you.

    But the question I have for you is this, is the claim of National Cancer Institute that “widespread application” of the vaccination will save lives valid or not?

    Is this just propaganda?

  16. J Avatar
    J

    “What we do know is that preventing our children from playing outside may be affecting their immune systems”

    Dear Georgie Porgie:

    Thanks for saying this on August 23 at 12:17

    Some of us have become such “poor great poppets” that we think that playing outside is lower class (unless done on a golf course at Sandy Lane). A dear friend was shocked when she found out that I let my children play outside and in the road too (well a fairly quiet gap) with all the other children from the village. However I believe that exercise is good and that informal “in the gap” playing helps children to build good social skills and good relationships. that may last for a lifetime.

    I remember becoming concerned when so many of my Toronto Bajan friends and relatives were being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and in my reading I found out that the rate of MS rises as a country becomes “more developed” (read drive cars instead of walking ’bout in the sun) and that rate of MS is higher in people who migrate to the great white north. Lo and behold a Harvard study from 2006 seems to say that MS seems to rise when people do not get enought sunshine (read play outside).

    In some ways I think that we are straying too far from our evolutionary roots. Human childen have played outside with large numbers of other children for tens of thousands or years. Nowadays we want to shut a child or two in the house with one our two parents and then we seem surprised at illness and social mis-function.

    Notice that Usain Bolt’s daddy seemed to think that the boy was hyper and took him to the doctor. Let us “big-up” the (probably) UWI doctor who told his father that ther was nothing wrong with the boy. His aunt stated that his hyperactivity went away when he started to run. I wonder what might have happened if the hyperactivity had been medicated out of the boy.

    I remember Owen Arthur saying that we have to be careful that we do not take all of the boyishness out of the boys. That is one very sensible thing that he said.

    And before other bloggers start throwing partisan political licks in me tNO I am not BLP, nor DLP either.

    All that said if I had to make a decision to immunize an adolesent girl against HPV I certainly would have her immunized.

  17. J Avatar
    J

    Kay said

    “How about BCG? The US does not mass vaccinate with BCG, European countries do not mass vaccinate with BCG. ”

    Maybe they should.

  18. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    J wrote :

    “All that said if I had to make a decision to immunize an adolesent girl against HPV I certainly would have her immunized.”

    I agree.

    But maybe you and I are just twits.

  19. J Avatar
    J

    Dear Ganong:

    Re your post of August 23 at 2:31 p.m. the vaccine awakening blogspot website is clearly an antivaccine website. As a physician I would have hoped that you would refer me to an objective site.

    That said when I was in class 2 a schoolmate had polio was sevrely disabled and never came back to school.

    I had measles at at aged 10 and chicken pox at age 26.

    I know several school mates who had mumps.

    My mother had shingles in her midforties and was severely, severely ill.

    I would not reccommend these diseases to anyone.

    Experiencing or witnessing these diseases have turned me into a vaccine “believer”

  20. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    My only beef with vaccinations is that Governments make it mandatory for children. My opinion is that it should be left to choice… so J would go take his daughter and I would not take mine without any repercussions.

    I should not have to belong to a religion in order to be exempted. That is discriminatory in a sense because the combination and quantity of mandatory vaccinations cannot guarantee health or life, today. Hence, to cause a person’s death by a mandatory law is senseless murder.

  21. J Avatar
    J

    But ROK if enough parents choose to let their children remain unummunized we will almost certanly see renewed outbreaks of the diseases in mentioned above.

    Believe me we should not mess with these diseases nor with our children’s health.

    The boy who get polio had to be send to Jamaica for treatment, that was back in the 50’s and money was very tight with families and with the government.

    Those parents who do not immunize will end up costing all of us.

    Sometimes we saythat we believe this and believe that until we are hit with the hard reality of taking care of a severely disabled child for 40 years or more. And then our fellow “believers “will not stick around for 40 years or more to help us.

    I would say to any parent, please be guided by the advice of your child’s doctor. I myself have kept my children with one doctor or at most 2 from birth to aulthood. So that the doctor knows me the child and our circumstances very very well.

    Do not take medical advice from an unverifiable internet source who has never met your child.

  22. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hi J,

    I think you got it wrong. There needs to be some analysis of the situation and study to see which of these diseases we are coping with and can cope with in the absence of vaccinations.

    It would be a mistake to talk about messing with diseases. Will we continue in darkness? Is there a vaccination against Dengue? What is the death rate? Does it make sense to develop a vaccine for dengue?

    Let us take your polio case. Let us say that Polio is one that we would prefer to vaccinate against because of the crippling effect. We know that the real problem is not in the individual vaccine in most cases but the amount of vaccinations you administer to the body.

    We doing mumps, rubella, measles, tetanus, polio (not sure how much more) and ending up with a high percentage of asthmatics, for example, which is a condition that can cause death.

    Meanwhile, your health bill has gone up becuase now apart from the expense of the vaccinations, you now have people purchasing inhalers and you have to set up an emergency asthma bay and maintain it.

    If we are in a position to eliminate any of these vaccinations, we may very well have less asthmatics, less child diabetics, etc. hence our health bill goes down and that would include the bill associated with the vaccinations you have elimanated.

    I am not a doctor but at the same time citizens have a right to make decisions about their own health and the same way a layman will question the decision of a banker or economist or any other profession, when it come to national policy citizens must have their say.

    Furthermore, we admit that medicine is really under the control of the pharmaceuticals. Who decided that MMR should be one shot? Can you get them individually? How many more triples so that three shots come to nine vaccinations? Does the average person understand that they got three vaccinations or nine?

  23. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    These are important because it is more and more apparent that in going to clinics many come away and can’t tell you what is wrong with them. They just know they have to take medication to get better.

    So later on down the road when a doctor wants to administer medication and have to ask them if they ever had certain conditions they can’t say or they may say no and end up with the wrong medication.

    These issues highlight the need for a better or more informed approach to health policy. One of the questions I asked above is how are the groups of religious persons doing, who are not being vaccinated? What percentage of the population is this? What if an outbreak occurs can we identify them? What percetage of these suffer from the diseases and conditions that are on the increase?

  24. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Amused
    Some countries stopped using BCG when a study was done in India. One village was immunised and another like village was not immunised.
    The results showed no differance in infection rates in TB.
    Furthermore when BCG is used in Europe or North America a skin test is done first. Depending on the reaction the full innoculation may or may not be given.
    Furthermore another study has found that when cildren are immunised after their first birthday the incidence of type 1 diabetes is higher.
    Over the last 15-20 years the number of innoculations that we give our children has grown, so too has the incidence of autoimmune diseases. Last we I read that we have very high rates for lupus. We now know so many people with these diseases (lupus, M.S., diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis) how many do we know with T.B.

  25. B- where? Avatar
    B- where?

    Please take your time and read.
    high effectiveness?
    general high levels of hpv infection and the association with cervical cancer?
    asessed, reveiwed, recommended, continuing monitoring?
    Decide for yourself.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/hpv-vaccines
    http://www.health.gov.au/cervicalcancer
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/std-mts/hpv-vph/hpv-vph-vaccine_e.html
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/Hpv/STDFact-HPV-vaccine.htm
    http://www.fightcervicalcancer.org.uk/
    http://www.gfmer.ch/Guidelines/Female_genital_neoplasms/Cervical_cancer_vaccine.htm

  26. memries Avatar
    memries

    @Kay

    RE Some countries stopped using BCG when a study was done in India. One village was immunised and another like village was not immunised.The results showed no differance in infection rates in TB.

    When were these studies done?
    What was the incidence of TB in the two villages?
    Was this because TB has been eradicated in that part of the world.
    So you are saying that in its long use the BCG vaccine has NEVER served any purpose?
    =================================
    Re Furthermore when BCG is used in Europe or North America a skin test is done first. Depending on the reaction the full innoculation may or may not be given.

    Was this not the case when BCG was given first in Barbados?

    ================================
    Re Furthermore another study has found that when cildren are immunised after their first birthday the incidence of type 1 diabetes is higher.

    So then type 1 diabetes is caused by immunizations? Has this correlation been shown?

    =================================
    RE Over the last 15-20 years the number of innoculations that we give our children has grown, so too has the incidence of autoimmune diseases. Last we I read that we have very high rates for lupus. We now know so many people with these diseases (lupus, M.S., diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis) how many do we know with T.B.

    Am I to therefore conclude that inoculations have increased the incidence of autoimmune diseases? Do you have any studies to prove this?

    Are you implying that the reason that we know so many people with lupus, M.S., diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis is because they received vaccinations?

    Could the reason why we don’t know many with T.B be due to the fact that the populace has been vaccinated?.

  27. memries Avatar
    memries

    @ ROK

    Re These are important because it is more and more apparent that in going to clinics many come away and can’t tell you what is wrong with them. They just know they have to take medication to get better. So later on down the road when a doctor wants to administer medication and have to ask them if they ever had certain conditions they can’t say or they may say no and end up with the wrong medication. These issues highlight the need for a better or more informed approach to health policy.

    No! Rather these issues highlight the need for doctors to teach their patients about their diseases and their treatment!

    You ask some interesting questions to which I have no answers.

    Added to your question must be what happens if these unvaccinated persons (in the case of MMR and DP) become carriers and infect others?

  28. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    memries
    No, skin patch tests are not given before the BCG here.
    No, the general populace has not been vaccinated for TB. It only started after the AIDS epidemic in the 80’s, in school age children.
    And in the end, you ask me for proof, where is yours that these vaccines are so grea?
    We could discuss this forever without either side giving in. In the end everyone needs to do the research for themselves and satisfy themselves regarding these innoculations.
    I have done mine, I suggest everyone should do their own and not just follow me or you or anyone else who posts here .

  29. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Oh also remember that these vaccines do not provide immunity forever. In fact a few years ago my doctor suggested a repeat of the measles shot for children before they entered university as they were now realising that by that age the immunity had worn off. So in effect we all are potential carriers.

  30. heckler Avatar
    heckler

    The Gardasil vaccine protects against infection by four strains of human papilloma virus (HPV). These strains of HPV are responsible for about 70% of the cases of cervical cancer. It is possible for a female to avoid exposure to HPV by abstinence, condom use, monogamy with an HPV-negative male or lesbianism. And of course, cervical cancer is almost completely curable if detected early and it is easily detectable by annual Pap smears.

    Giving Gardasil to an adolescent girl makes sense if she lives in an environment where there is a substantial risk of statutory rate and/or the girl is promiscuous. A good nickname for Gardasil is the ho vaccine. Texas is the only state that currently mandates this vaccine but Virginia will soon join it. I understand why it’s mandated in Texas, but VIRGINia?

  31. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Not sure if I going down that carriers road with you memries. That is a dangerous road to travel; like the witches burnt at the stake.

    Not sure that we disagree on anything else in that last comment but there are some issues in the previous comment.

    The health/medical authorities in USA have found relationships between vaccinations and the diseases which I describe as on the increase. Autism is said to be related to mercury poisoning, which is why the amount of vaccinations received by a person is critical because these have mercury; so while each one may be safe individually, collectively they are a risk.

    It is because of this lack of guarantee that I am saying that the state should not make it mandatory, especially when the side effects could be autism, MS, asthma, etc.

    Read the New Zealand research where it was found that children of religious faith who did not receive the vaccinations do not have any of these side effects and reactions. It would not be good judgement to ignore such results.

    What we need to do is the research in Barbados. Get our own statistics and add to what is known in New Zealand, USA and Europe.

    Given the possible lives (and foreign exchange) that can be saved; and the jobs and industry that can be created, is it such a bad idea to do the investigations?

  32. David Avatar
    David

    @ROK

    Which local agency would you suggest undertake the research you propose? Would a consumer body in junction with BAMP perhaps, maybe the Ministry of Health? Some good ideas being put forward and we think a couple agencies should be identified and a document dispatch encapsulating concerns raised! Perhaps it can be a collaborative effort Kay, GP, Amused and yourself? BU offers freely to facilitate the the undertaking.

  33. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @B-Where,

    Thank you for the comprehensive list of internet information on this vaccine from so many international regulatory bodies.

    Here is some of the relevant info from an opinion paper of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists included in your links : (please go to link above and read all of it, below is just some extracts)

    On the problem:

    “Vaccination as a means of primary prevention has obvious advantages in countries where screening programmes are not established but may also offer advantages in countries like the UK, where secondary prevention by screening and treating premalignant lesions is not only expensive but sometimes imprecise, resulting in unnecessary anxiety and intervention for some women, while at the same time failing to detect lesions in others. Despite the success of screening programmes, cervical cancer still occurs in a proportion of screened women.”

    On the trials :

    “Gardasil® is now being tested in a large phase III study involving over 25 000 women from 33 different countries across the world. An interim analysis found the vaccine to be 100% effective in the short term at preventing high-grade CIN and cervical adenocarcinoma in situ (AIS)”

    Safety:

    “Both vaccines have an excellent safety record, with only transient injection site reaction and no evidence of adverse effect on chronic disorders. The use of CIN3 as an endpoint to establish the efficacy of the vaccine to prevent cervical cancer is a necessary surrogate for invasive cancer itself. It will take 20 years for a large vaccinated cohort to be able to demonstrate a reduction in cervical cancer in unscreened women. Randomised trials with invasive cancer as an endpoint would be prohibitively expensive and would delay unnecessarily the implementation of vaccination where it is most needed.”

    Acceptance

    “Sensitive public health campaigns would be required to convince parents to allow their teenage daughters to be vaccinated against a sexually transmitted infection. Some pro-abstinence and religious groups may be opposed to the vaccination of young girls, fearing that it may promote promiscuity. Others are changing their position, admitting that women who are celibate until marriage may still contract HPV from husbands who are not.”

    Treatment of Boys:

    “Whether boys should be vaccinated is still unresolved. Including boys is likely to be important for the development of group immunity but male disease is rare and, to date, there have been no studies that demonstrate that men can be protected”

    Duration :

    “HPV-specific antibodies generated by vaccination may wane with time, although current data indicate that immune responses persist through 5 years. The need for booster immunisations to maintain protection against infection will only become apparent after prolonged periods of follow-up. ”

    On Screening :

    “Cervical screening will, therefore, continue to play an important role in the fight against cervical cancer. HPV prophylactic vaccination may not be 100% effective and will probably not protect against all HPV types. There will, therefore, be a need for continued cervical screening in a vaccination era.”

    Conclusion:

    “HPV prophylactic vaccines are now becoming available. Their potential to reduce the worldwide incidence of cervical cancer is unprecedented. Universal vaccination protocols require careful strategic and financial planning in both developed and underdeveloped settings. In the meantime, the final results and longer-term results of global trials, as well as demonstration (phase IV) trials, including feasibility, will continue to provide valuable information.”

    ———————————–

    Dr Boobie is all the above “propaganda”?

    Is the Royal College corrupt too?

    You called me ignorant, a twit, a fool and a joker because I dared to suggest a woman could get infected (and maybe develop cancer) from one man, yet the opinion paper of the Royal College mentions exactly that !!! Fancy that !

  34. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Kay,

    You cite some studies, do you have references. Pretty hard to comment without reading them.

  35. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hi David,

    Would welcome working with all of you on something like this; it would be a good collaborative effort between the natural and social sciences and would include NGOs, FBOs, Private Sector and Government.

    First, I believe a lot of this information is collected everyday by doctors and medical institutions. Outside of these it would be to interview those who were not innoculated and do not attend medical institution or doctors as a rule and try to get the evidence to support their claims/statements.

    So, the Ministry of Health, BAMP, BANGO and maybe we can get CAREC and PAHO on board; even UNICEF. We would have to decide what makes sense or even what would be sufficient to be able to make a reasonable decision.

    I am wondering if we have outgrown this forum. Let me admit that I don’t have a problem sharing with all here as this is not a secret. Furthermore while everybody may not be able to get on board they may still be able to contribute along the way; even if it is by discussion; your call.

    The first task would be to write the Ministry of education and the Ministry of Health to inform them of our decision and the reasons for it and see if we can get a buy-in. We will need the cooperation of the schools and the medical institutions to access records.

    With this information we can sample minors, teenagers, adults and even the elderly who would have had vaccinations and those who did not.

    There is also developmental funding which could be tapped. There are too many possibilities for this not to be a success and I believe that whatever the outcome we will be the wiser for it as a nation.

    One final thing is that I would like to introduce the NSA Platform for Collaborative Action. This was formed coming out of a workshop for managers, executives and officers of Non State Actors’ organisations and is intended to churn out project proposals for developmental funding. Its first meeting will be on 1st September and will meet as necessary after that.

  36. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    Amused
    If I give you places on the web to find these studies, you will counter that I am only using the ones that prove my point. This is why I suggest you look for them yourself.

  37. memries Avatar
    memries

    @ Amused?

    RE your quotations

    “Gardasil® is now being tested in a large phase III study involving over 25 000 women from 33 different countries across the world. An interim analysis found the vaccine to be 100% effective in the short term at preventing high-grade CIN and cervical adenocarcinoma in situ (AIS)”

    It will take 20 years for a large vaccinated cohort to be able to demonstrate a reduction in cervical cancer in unscreened women. Randomised trials with invasive cancer as an endpoint would be prohibitively expensive and would delay unnecessarily the implementation of vaccination where it is most needed.”

    In the meantime, the final results and longer-term results of global trials, as well as demonstration (phase IV) trials, including feasibility, will continue to provide valuable information.”

    DO YOU REALIZE THAT THIS IS NOT THE USUAL WAY IN WHICH A DRUG/ PREPARATION IS BROUGHT TO THE PUBLIC?

  38. memries Avatar
    memries

    @ Kay
    RE:
    Amused
    If I give you places on the web to find these studies, you will counter that I am only using the ones that prove my point. This is why I suggest you look for them yourself.

    =================================

    It should be obvious by now that Amused is just a troll. He can only comment after reading articles on the net. He pretends to be seeking information but is only seeking to contradict the opinion of others who are speaking from thier clinical and professional experience in medicine nursing or pharmacy.

    His comments indicate to me that he knows nothing about the subject matter under discussion, but is just seeking to irritate.

  39. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @memries

    do you have an opinion on the HPV vaccine?

  40. David Avatar
    David

    @ROK

    Maybe a good place to start is for you submit a rough draft to BU which we will post as a separate blog and invite comments/feedback. Are you agreeable to this approach?

  41. memries Avatar
    memries

    Look above and you will see what I have said.
    Now go learn the stages through which a drug is cleared to come to the market.

    Note that according to your posts that Gardasil has NOT yet cleared all four of these stages.

    Hence the probable reason for the comments made by knowledgeable commenters on this thread than you are.

    Your comments even contradict your chastisement od David correctly saying BEWARE

  42. Ganong Avatar
    Ganong

    The interesting thing about what has become a debate here is that whereas some are advocating the mass use of a preparation of dubious efficacy in the long term and a preparation that appears still to be in clinical trials, the same persons are advocating that mass use of vaccines that have been in use for decades and found to be efficacious, should not be given in masse.

    Whereas I know of no other way to prevent measles, mumps, pertussis , rubella, diptheria , polio etc we do know that cervical cancer can be prevented with out a vaccine, and can probably be treated more sucessfully than some of the childhood illnesses.

    But perhaps the time has come for internet readers of articles and journals who are still essentially medical illiterates to take over the treatment of patients.

    It will be shall I say be amusing to look on at the ensuing fiasco in my retirement.

  43. J Avatar
    J

    Now, now, Ganong. No need to be sarcastic. If medical illiterates take over the treatment of patients it will not be amusing for any of us. Even though you may be retired or as my mother used to say “in the departure lounge” still you have children or grandchildren out there and a return to childhood diseases won’t be amusing for any of us.

  44. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @memries

    why did the FDA approve it? why have so many regulatory bodies approved it?

    @ganong

    would a vaccine not increase prevention ?

    just reasonable questions, please dont take offense

  45. Ganong Avatar
    Ganong

    Memries does have a good point about the protocol for the approval of drugs.

    Who knows why the FDA approves drugs?
    They are many drugs in the last decade for which they had to remove thier approval.

    There are many good drugs used in the UK & Europe that are unavailable in the USA

    There are many drugs that are available over the counter in the USA that are prescription drugs in the UK & Europe. Drugs that give a lot of trouble with drug interactions.

    Whether the vaccine will cause prevention is not the sole or major reason for introducing this preparation. The cardinal rule for using a preparation is it likely to cause more harm than benefit to the patient. As GP pointed out it is a good ploy never to be the first to try the new, nor the last to disregard the old.

    Many doctors in the US found that out to thier chagrin with drugs approved by the FDA in recent times.

  46. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @ganong,

    Why do you think it is endorsed by so many bodies, including the WHO, the National Cancer Inst, The American Cancer Society, the RCOG, regulatory bodies in NZ, Australia, Canada etc etc but clearly fervently opposed and doubted by GP, Boobie, memries and yourself.

    Again dont take offense, I think a reasonable question.

  47. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    The UK is now extending the program.

    From today’s telegraph newspaper :

    “The Government is considering giving more than a million women aged between 19 and 24 the option of having the jab against the human papilloma virus (HPV).”

    Why this seeming full endorsement from some but the strong opposition here on BU?

  48. memries Avatar
    memries

    Answer your question.
    You seem to have all the answers.

    Dont you think that GP, Boobie, Ganong and myself have brought some balance to the debate?

    Have we disobeyed any of the basic principles of the practice of medicine, or the precribing of drugs? Have we been wrong with respect to the rules which NORMALLY govern the bringing of a drug to the market?

    Would you know the answer to these questions?
    Would you care? Or do you only care about proving your point?

    Will medical illiterates like you take over the practice of Medicine?

    At any rate the GOB will do as they wish.

  49. memries Avatar
    memries

    Does endorsement of a vaccine by all of the bodies you quote make it right or expedient?

    Has this sort of thing not been done before, according to Kay and J with other vaccines? And with detrimental results?

    Any troll or heckler can ask questions?
    Can you answer any of mine?
    Can you see any merit in anything that we have said except that we agreed with BU that we ought to be CAUTIOUS about a vaccine that has not yet cleared Phase IV trials- which is abnormal.
    Is caution now to be thrown out the window in the practice of Medicine?
    Does expression caution mean fervent opposition?

  50. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ David

    Yes. Agreeable. May take me a little time to complete though as the better half of today and tomorrow will be taken up with meetings. Maybe by tonight, otherwise tomorrow afternoon.

    Think we need to do the detail by e-mail. mine is public: admin@bango.org.bb

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