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The notion that lawyers, and especially judges, know everything is doubtless premised on the variety of determinations the profession is obliged to make as part of its diurnal routine. Is a medical doctor liable for negligence? Did a Minister exercise his or her discretion properly? Did an accused intend to murder the deceased? These are but a few of the decisions that are matters of law and whose answers lie exclusively within the realm of legal theory. Of course, in some matters, a court will be assisted by expert evidence, especially when determining matters that depend on the practice of a particular profession. For instance, medical negligence will be found where the doctor fails to act in accordance with an accepted responsible body of medical practice. What constitutes such is a matter of evidence from a medical expert in the particular area in issue.

A similar determination arose this week in the Caribbean Court of Justice, where, as the highest court in the Guyanese legal system, it was called upon to pronounce on a number of issues concerning the law of governance in that jurisdiction. These arose out of the infamous no confidence motion brought by the parliamentary opposition against the governing coalition administration. I say infamous because it may be recalled that one member of the governing coalition parliamentary group chose to vote against his side and therefore to carry the Opposition motion by a tally of 33 votes to 32.

These matters managed to present a number of legal issues for the Court’s determination; among them, whether there was a difference between a no confidence motion that was not expressly provided for in the Constitution and a motion of confidence that was so provided? What constitutes the majority necessary for the passage of a no-confidence motion and whether the Court had jurisdiction to inquire into the issue of Mr Persaud’s [the MP who voted with the Opposition motion] qualification to be a member of the National Assembly.

Of these issues, I found the first to be the most intriguing and I have written in another capacity more times than one on the very point. The matter became a legal issue because the legal advisors to the governing administration were of the view that first, there was a difference between an absolute majority and a simple majority; and that 33 votes could not constitute a majority in a 65 member Parliament because a majority was half of the total plus one and, since there could not be 0.5 of a vote, half of 65 had to be rounded up to 33 and the added one would give a total of 34. Too besides, they argued further, since 33 was already a majority of 64 members, it could not also be the majority of 65, a grater number. Of course, this assertion took no notice of the reality that 34 was also the majority of 66, itself a greater number than 65.

I argued in one of my writings on the subject last year, relying on the learning in Robert’s Rules of Order that the use of the formula half-plus-one to constitute a majority is apt to cause problems. According to the text, “Suppose in voting on a motion 17 votes are cast. 9 in favor and 8 opposed. Fifty percent of the votes cast is 81/2 so that 50 percent plus one would be 91/3. Under such an erroneous definition of a majority, one might say that the motion was not adopted because it did not receive 50 percent plus one of the voted cast although it was, quite clearly, passed by a majority vote”.

A similar argument appeared to find favour with President Saunders who drew on his judicial experience of what constitutes a majority judgment.

Since the Assembly comprises an odd number, there is no need to imply into the Constitution any formula for defining a majority as being ‘half plus one’. Indeed, as an American judge noted,12 the 50% plus one ruleleads to illogical results when it is applied to odd numbers. So, for example, it is trite that when a Court of Appeal sits as a panel of three, a majority decision is 2:1. The Chief Justice was therefore right when she adjudged that a majority from among 65 members is a minimum of 33.”

It bears remarking that the learned Chief Justice of Guyana had also reasoned likewise although she appeared to base her determination on an obverse application of the golden rule by positing if Persaud had voted against the no-confidence motion, the government would have accepted that the vote count of 33 is the majority of all elected members”.

In support of their argument, the lawyers for the governing administration had cited two authorities from Commonwealth jurisdictions. The CCJ found neither useful. As for the first, from Vanuatu, it related to a circumstance where an even number of members constituted the parliament.

Kilman was a case where the Vanuatu parliament consisted of 52 members. Only 51 voted on a particular motion that required an absolute majority. The result of the vote was 26:25. It was in this context that the court said as is stated above. Twenty-six votes could not carry the motion because what was needed was a majority of 52 and since 52 was an even number, in that specific context that majority could only be obtained via the formula of half the Members of Parliament plus one.

The second authority from Anguilla was also easily distinguished-

In that case the question concerned the number of members necessary to constitute a quorum. The Assembly comprised 11 members. The quorum requirement was two-thirds. Mathematically, two-thirds of 11 yields 7.3. The question was whether to constitute the quorum one should round up to 8 or round down to 7 members. The court held that since the concept of a quorum meant the least number possible for the valid transaction of business, one could not round down to 7 as that number would fall below the mandated quorum of 7.3. One should round up to 8 which would satisfy the quorum condition. Hughes v Rogers, therefore, has no relevance to the question at hand.

To be continued


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307 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – Doing Things with Rules”

  1. WURA-WAR-on-U Avatar

    INTENT…

    wuhloss!!!!>>>lol

    https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/240400/-bribed

    “Insurance Corporation of Barbados, which allegedly bribed former Cabinet minister Donville Inniss to secure contracts, possibly made illegal payments to other “Government officials”, say prosecutors in the United States.

    Prosecutors are contending they have evidence to support the allegation but don’t plan to present it when Inniss faces a Brooklyn, New York judge and jury in October.

    However, it’s not known who are the “other Government officials”.

    The assertions are contained in a document filed earlier this month in a federal district court and made available to the Sunday Sun. (TB)”


  2. @ WURA-WAR-on-U June 23, 2019 7:56 AM

    You seem shocked by the revelation. Are you living on Mars? We have had the disclosure that David Thompson did some fancy foot work with a check concerning an Insurance executive, that in any more equitable jurisdiction, would have seen his assets being forfeited. This place is similar to the crooked African countries.

  3. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    Judges make decisions based on the legislation,the social /political intentions of the state and relevant scientific theories.They aim for what will be satisfying in the particular situation.


  4. @Robert Lucas
    (quote) We have had the disclosure that David Thompson did some fancy foot work with a check concerning an Insurance executive, that in any more equitable jurisdiction, would have seen his assets being forfeited (quote).

    explain that some more. i dont quite follow that? would have seen whose assets being forfeited? in which jurisdiction?


  5. Robert….more VINDICATED than shocked…

    … many, including myself have complained about these vile and repulsively corrupt insurance companies and their Insurance executives for decades….they ALL, including CGI Insurance have been in bed with BOTH GOVERNMENTS for decades and getting into all sorts of things…but they get the protection …well…used to anyway…lol.


  6. @ Robert Lucus

    Although Greene’s question may be legitimate, by now you should realise he is an apologist for a particular political party and once you mentioned David Thompson he will be in a tizzy.


  7. @ Goren

    i have issues with the word, ” apologist”. the rest i have no truck with. i make no comment about your politics however


  8. Mention David Thompson and Clico mess comes to mind. Against this background it is worth mentioning Clico policyholders have been receiving cash payments and bonds.

    Not perfect but something better than nothing.

  9. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Dean Jeff, I smiled when I read ur opening that “The notion that lawyers, and especially judges, know everything is doubtless premised on the variety of determinations the profession is obliged to make as part of its diurnal routine.”

    The cynic in me says REALLY, particularly when you then described the absurdity (at the bar of commonsense) of the govt argument in the Guyana matter.

    Lawyers would have US believe that they know eva thing but many simply try to see how clever they can be in spreading legal cow dung in the court room…. They are BS artist!

    I would admit that sometimes what at first seems to be pure manure can become a powerful fertiliser for new regs but this was not that!


  10. The notion that lawyers, and especially judges, know everything is doubtless premised on the variety of determinations the profession is obliged to make as part of its diurnal routine.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Both lawyers and Judges are essentially ignorant!!

    I agree with you!!!

    The problem is when the two sets of ignorant individuals get together in a court of law and conduct their di – urinal intercourse!!.


  11. @John

    Yours is a generalization of a gargantuan nature.


  12. We are all ignorant!!

    Just that layers and Judges and Doctors and Engineers and Ministers are not supposed to be as ignorant as the rest of us!!

    … but, we all are ignorant!!

    Doctors and Engineers and Ministers practice their trade individually!!

    Lawyers and Judges however work together.

    The idea is that the Judge will be guided by two other lawyers to make an informed decision!!

    One of the lawyers is for the proposition, the other against.

    That system should be idiot proof … three heads are better than one .. but sometimes the three heads are not interested in an informed decision.

    A piece of evidence intentionally or unintentionally overlooked messes up the system!!

    When we see people who have spent years in jail and DNA evidence frees them … whose fault was it?

    Just that the system of the three did not work!!

    Something the accused was saying was right and was not properly checked.

    In that instance the Judge and the two lawyers worked together (had di-urinal intercourse if you like) and the result was crap … as you would expect!!

    It doesn’t make sense to compare the legal system of which Jeff knows a lot, with other systems of which he is clearly totally ignorant.

    Just like Grenville trying to compare Barbados with Singapore.

    Jeff needs to stick to what Jeff knows!!


  13. David
    June 23, 2019 10:53 AM

    @John
    Yours is a generalization of a gargantuan nature.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    It is simplicity itself!!


  14. @ John,

    To be fair, President Mottley has also been comparing Barbados to Singapore.


  15. i make no comment about your politics however (Quote)

    @ Greene

    It’s because you can’t. If you’re trying to say I’m a BLP supporter for calling you out, that is your prerogative, but it is a baseless assumption.

    I said on here many times that there are no differences between the BLP and DLP, while you’re the one that always say it’s only the BLP that is corrupt.

    BOTH ARE CORRUPT!!!!

    Remember, you, on the other hand, were the one who admitted to being a DLP supporter. Therefore, when you make comments that defend that party or that come over as promoting the DLP as being the epitome of morality, when BOTH parties are the same, you SHOULD NOT have an issue when you’re reminded. It just goes to show despite all the pretty talk you have, you are just another hypocritical political hack who believes anyone who is critical of the DLP has to be a BEE.

    Take a look at today’s Sunday Sun and let’s have a discussion about corruption and morals.


  16. https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/06/23/mandatory-court-annex-mediation-from-september/

    I usually avoid Jeff’s post because I do not want to diminish the level of the conversation. But I was reading the above post and came to the conclusion that we are getting lip service… I need some help.
    .
    Phrases like
    “A lot of times people come into court and they sue for damages but really the damages are not what they want and they usually want relief that we in the courts cannot grant,” said the chief justice.

    “What mediation does is also allows the court, or in the context of the court, for a matter to b resolved with the parties agreeing among themselves to types of resolutions that we cannot order them to do,”

    ******What is he saying? “We cannot handle these matters, but we gun still tek um on”?

    Now I get this part…
    Sir Marston also indicated that if the cases were sent for mediation and both parties were unable to pay the $500 mediator’s fee to the Supreme Court, they will undergo a means test.

    *********”We cannot handle these matters, but we gun still tek um on. and we gun charge you $500 to come here, so if it is a $499 money matter… forget it.. But wait

    “Sir Marston also indicated that if the cases were sent for mediation and both parties were unable to pay the $500 mediator’s fee to the Supreme Court, they will undergo a means test.

    “We have included a form which is essentially a means test. They will fill the form out and we will look at their income and based on what is recorded in that form we will decide whether or not we believe that this party or these parties can or cannot afford mediation. In which case we will direct that the mediator performs per bono. The whole idea is to make sure service is inclusive and not exclude persons who cannot afford a mediator,” Sir Martson explained.

    ********So I come looking for justice, you gun send me to a mediator and I have to cough up $500 or show you my bank account…. And if I tell lies on the form….What you gun do? Man, this is not inclusive, you kicking de small man with small money and small problems outta yuh court.

    You gotta brek down things so the salemites and pick a noise crew understand. Days of throwing out nice sounding sentences are done. sumbody need to brek it down some mo…. dese legal things does knock me out. A man owe mi $300 and don’t wanna pay me… I want to sue he for me money, but it is only $475… What can I do??


  17. oops 300=476

  18. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Robert Lucas, perception can be a big-itch!

    I cringe when you say “This place is similar to the crooked African countries”.

    Why not like the US or UK or Canada !

    We know that of the 150+ countries on the Transparency International list of the most corrupt nation’s that several of the worst are on the African continent, granted…. BUT…

    … If we accept that the US is the most powerful nation times 10 than most of them then their corruption scandals must count for much, much more!

    I am not excusing my African cousins …just saying let’s change the perception to a better picture of the reality around us.

    In no special order … just as memory serves!

    ..A US House SPEAKER (3rd most powerful post in the nation basically) was convicted on molestation (corruption)– [Hastert]

    …Another almost speaker [DeLay] from Texas (the opposition majority leader at that time) was convicted on financial corruption charges; those two along with the powerful Dan Rostenkowski on the Dem side were all convicted of corruption after eons as elected officials… they are but three examples of the pervasive nature of greed and misconduct in US federally.

    ..Statewide or Province wide in Canada …wha loss! Just one state: in NY, both the all powerful former Speaker in the Assembly, Silver, AND his then counterpart Senate majority leader Skelos were convicted of corruption; add to that the leaders of the Brooklyn Dem party in the person of Norman for his corrupt ‘pay to play’ regime.

    No excusing the Nigerians or Somalis or Ghanaians but when u have primarily white dude institutionalized PERVASIVE corruption like $1000 wrenches or toilet seats in defense dept. contract awards or folks working for $170,000 in OVER TIME or getting odles of money for no-show jobs in the transit state agency but we develop this perception of ONLY big-time corruption in our shitho## countries that becomes a bit ridiculous over time!

    Let’s do wake up … the reality of MASSIVE corruption is more rampant in the US than many of us choose to believe!

    And don’t let’s best up DT anymore….😀

    I gone.


  19. Hal Austin
    June 23, 2019 11:46 AM

    @ John,
    To be fair, President Mottley has also been comparing Barbados to Singapore.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    .. and Erroll Barrow too!!!!

    As I said, we are all ignorant and should stick to what we know!!!

    But then I would not have such fun!!


  20. Where is Singapore on the Transparency International CPI (corruptions Perception Index)?


  21. @ John

    Are you saying President Mottley is a lot of hot air?


  22. If the Guyanese born Charles Leacock were alive…


  23. Hal Austin
    June 23, 2019 12:08 PM

    @ John
    Are you saying President Mottley is a lot of hot air?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Many (most) lawyers are a lot of hot air!!

    If the shoe fits ….


  24. @Goren

    if you want to say something about the Inniss matter just say it.

    you dont have to try to establish or remind me that i said i favour the DLP. let me say it again so that there be no misapprehension whatsoever about where i stand politically- i favour the DLP over the BLP notwithstanding the last iteration of the DLP post Thompson.

    now that out the way, discuss what you want


  25. @ Theo

    What we need is a small claims court, without the need for legal representation.


  26. Dribbler
    Was there any truth to the story that DT left an estate of 39 mill?


  27. Our judicial and court system along with our tax collection system, both remind me of 2 old boats full of leaks waiting to see who will sink first.

    All the talk last elections about charging people for corruption and a year later what? The only person facing charges doing so in a U.S court. Laughable to say the least.

    I know some must be saying why he linking the court system to the tax collection system? Well stop and think how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions in revenue to government remain unpaid simply because the cases can’t get through the system in a timely manner. If the traffic court alone was efficient in terms of speed of settlement, that court could be a major revenue earner for the state. But instead you got ZR men out there with nuff cases pending still on the road running up more offences every day.

    The whole dam system is a joke and all we do is talk talk talk.

  28. WURA-WAR-on-U Avatar

    Theo…don’t even try to understand that madness, they just mouth shit that they themselves NEVER understand, but it sounds good to them and they believe it sounds just as good or better to everyone else.

    “Kingdom of Morocco. Morocco is a source, destination, and transit country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purpose of forced labor and commercial sexual exploitation. Children are trafficked within the country from rural areas to urban centers to work as maids or laborers, or for exploitation in the sex trade.”

    We need to focus solely on this BARBARIC GOVERNMENT…whose sole intent is to CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN SLAVE SOCIETY BARBADOS….for their own greedy benefit..

    ….now if i were looking to connect to AFRICA..Morocco would certainly NOT be on my list of African places to do business….the only fools who would go to a modern day SLAVE TRADING AFRICAN COUNTRY….are those who have LOST ALL SPIRITUAL CONNECTION TO AFRICA….

    THE SELLOUTS WHO HAVE BEEN SPIRITUALLY SEVERED from the continent…now looking for tips from slave traders to maintain their slave society..in Barbados.


  29. @ John A

    Barbados is a failed state.


  30. @ Hal

    You know in the past I would of said no just one in need of repair. But I have to tell you I starting to agree with you more every day on that. Also this government’s approach to the rebuilding process is no different to the last ones. All I see them rebuilding is their tax creation methods just as Sinkler did, only under different names.

    Fourteen months after elections and I still waiting to see a growth plan, other than the taxation one of course.

    All this talk about a duopoly I say it’s a 2 chapter monopoly whether we want to except it or not.

    Yes and for the record I help vote them in hoping to see true change so I cussing myself too all like now.


  31. @ John A

    You are more ambitious than I am. I want to see an economic justification for BERT.


  32. @ Hal

    BERT should stand for Barbados Economic Recession Thesis

    There is no recovery in the Bert plan and as anyone in business will tell you the last 12 months have seen a slow down in business, with the biggest slow down between the post budget period earlier this hear to now.

    This budget did nothing for any sector of the economy. Name one sector that benefited in a real way. Don’t come with ” oh income tax was lowered” caused you took that and more back in more direct taxation methods. If you doubt me check below.

    Tourism = new room taxes etc
    Real estate= 61% Increase in some
    Liquidity = increase bus fares etc.
    Farming= increase water rates
    Fishing = increase fuel cost
    Duty free= moved from 0 to exempt

    Wunna want me continue or you get my drift ?


  33. The Sunday Sun reports that the Prosecutor has more evidence to support ( that )other govt officials were bribed
    Strange or even weird that a Prosecutor would keep that information under wraps
    Isnt it the prosecutor job to let the wheels of justice turn in the right direction
    Strange such information should not be headed towards a process for prosecutorial justice


  34. John A

    There is a new book out by Alberto Alesina et al called Austerity. Get a copy.


  35. @ de pedantic Dribbler June 23, 2019 11:58 AM

    Your point is noted. Let me emend my “This place is similar to the crooked African countries”. to state most Third-world countries and some developed ones ( in the case of the latter the proviso exists for persons to be jailed). You most likely will say that Third-world countries also have similar provisos: the problem with this is that the provisos are not enforced. You may also be pissed off by the use of Third world (with all of the political correctness going on these days).

    I have just read the papers and when I thought my opinion of the judiciary(lawyers and police included) couldn’t reach a lower level detestation, I came across the account of the happenings with the lawyer Daisley. As Hal Austin says this a truly failed state. It is crooked from top to bottom. Based on the events, it is hard to see how the ordinary citizen can get a square deal in this country. Corruption seems to be institutionalized in this country.

    @ Greene June 23, 2019 10:08 AM
    Money laundering is money laundering however one looks at it: that is precisely what happened. I stand by what I have said, the assets should have been taken. A financial crime was committed, Are you trying to say that a crime was not committed?


  36. @ Hal

    You notice not a fella use the R word yet?

    No David not you R as in RH but R as in Recession!

    The international standard for a recession is 3 consecutive quarters of zero or negative growth. So when the figures for the quarter ending June 30th come up showing another slow down, we in one regardless of how the governor and others try to dress it up.


  37. Will have to give it a look for sure.


  38. @Dr.Lucas

    The issue concerning Daisley is bigger than the Courts. It involves the Police and even the DPP to a degree.


  39. It is disappointing the hierarchy of the police force was made aware and has done nothing to advance the matter.

  40. Vincent Codrington Avatar
    Vincent Codrington

    @ Jeff

    The issue of Mr. Persaud being allowed to vote against his party/ coalition did not exercise the courts attention. Is there not a section of the Guyana constitution which required him to resign his seat ?


  41. @ John A

    The Barbados economy is in stagnation.


  42. @ Hal.

    I would say it was in stagnation up to March but definitely slipped into recession in this current quarter. Remember the last quarter in 2018 and the first quarter in 2019 was also down roughly -1%.


  43. Any one expecting charges will be brought against individuals in Barbados for the insurance bribery cases, will have to wait for hell to freeze over first. The Attorney General and the Police Commissioner don’t seem to be too keen on pursuing the matter. In a law abiding jurisdiction ( operative word here is law abiding), one would have expected that some investigations would have been done. Instead we are hearing zilch about the matter. There has been a lot of glib talking which is par for the course in this jurisdiction.


  44. @ John A

    Be wary cooking the books. Show us where the growth is coming from.


  45. @ Hal

    Them could cook all they want if you want the truth ask any vendor in st Lawrence gap, or merchant small or large in Business today. If you want to know what a tourist season is like ask the taxi men or beach vendors. You don’t need to wait on no central bank report.

    I know with 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth up to end of March, they will do what ever they can to show some growth this quarter even if it’s immeasurable like 0.0025% .Lol

    Anything to avoid the R word from raising its head. Of course those of us in the real world would know different.


  46. @ John A

    I just do not trust them. Barbados has been underperforming the regional and global economies for 50 years. During the Arthur years they over-dosed on debt. Stuart merely exacerbated the situation.


  47. @ David June 23, 2019 2:24 PM

    Corruption is the order of the day; so much so, that it has become common place for the foot soldier to try to concoct evidence to frame individuals. Have you ever asked yourself how come most cases in Barbados are solved by the alleged accused confessing? The American authorities have a beef with this and in the past have complained about the miscarriage of justice in Barbados. Judiciary don’t seem to have a beef with these confessions (doesn’t say much for them).This society is corrupt from top to bottom. The crime situation will not improve, not when those at the top are as crooked as a bent nail.


  48. @ Hal

    Yes and the last ” tax to grave budget ” will do nothing to produce growth either.


  49. @ Robert Lucas

    (quote)Money laundering is money laundering however one looks at it: that is precisely what happened. I stand by what I have said, the assets should have been taken. A financial crime was committed, Are you trying to say that a crime was not committed?(quote)

    i maybe wrong but Thompson, his estate or Parris have not being charged for any financial crime or crime that alleges that that money was criminal property (ML). you are free to believe it is however


  50. @Dr. Lucas

    Corruption is endemic. Do you recall when Dr. Worrell pulled rank on the Barbados Statistical Service because he did not trust the unemployment statistic?

    Endemic meaning Caribbean wide. All of the economies in the region are basket cases including the judiciary.

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