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BBC’s World Have Your Say Asks: Is Marriage A Step Too Far For Gay Rights?

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The issue of declining morals in our societies is one which BU remains very concerned.  We have recorded our view in previous blogs; the issue of homosexuality is one of a moral flavour and not the rights issue in which the gay movement has been able to escalate this issue. The recent same sex marriage which occurred in Latin America and  the arrest of a gay couple in Malawi has given renewed currency to the gay debate. There is no doubt the movement is beginning to probe the  Caribbean space in a more aggressive manner. Our hoppa-long leaders will have to declare a position soon. The next two years will make for interesting politics in the Caribbean region.

Tomorrow at 2PM Bajan time, the BBC World Service will broadcast its popular program World Have Your Say. A BU blog, A Step Too Far Or Fairness And Equality: Same Sex Partner’s Legal Rights posted by family member Yardbroom has been featured on the BBC blog which promotes tomorrow’s radio show. Unfortunately BU (David) had to decline the BBC invitation to be on the show tomorrow; a challenge which BU will have to overcome at some point.

The gay debate has reached an interesting point in the US and the UK especially. There is a willingness to accept gay relationships but hesitancy when taking the normal next step to marriage. This current state of affairs is being described as duplicitous to say the least.

For those who are not able to listen live we hope to post a link to the Podcast to the program for the BU family.

Happy New Year Everyone!

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172 responses to “BBC’s World Have Your Say Asks: Is Marriage A Step Too Far For Gay Rights?”

  1. Eddie, Avatar
    Eddie,

    Why are they called “gay?”

    I thought a more suitable word would have been “depressed”

  2. Raymond Avatar
    Raymond

    I have always felt that choices once made should be sealed.I believe in vows, oaths,sworn secrets the whole nine yards!At least you are not in the closet and living a lie.I support gay rights but I also believe choices are personal.Wake up Barbados!

  3. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    Eddie
    Ya got ma cryinnnnnn. Um too early.

    Raymond
    Choices are personal and so are our opinions. Let us ‘air’ them widout interruption from you.
    And B/dos wake up evva since. Whay you bin? Sleepin? Now you wake up.

    ROK
    Still pledging my love fa you in 2010. And I know dat you in gay. Just happy to know dat I love you so.

  4. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    “Same sex relationships” is NOT A MORAL ISSUE..! War is moral issue, lying and mass deception are moral issues, praedial larceny, stealing of all forms, betrayal of confidence (particularly by governments) are moral issues!

    Two human beings with an emotional attachment to each other is… NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!

  5. David Avatar
    David

    Isn’t this debate a global one?

  6. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    It just goes to show David how much free time the people of the Globe have on their hands that should be productively employed RELEVANT activity…!

  7. ac Avatar
    ac

    @BAFBFP
    Don’t forget this also affect the way children see things as they look to adults for guidance and in they earlychildhood they minds are impressionable.

    Question: what happen to wifey?

  8. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Wifey hear ’bout you so she livin’ wid de in-laws fah de time being…!

  9. David Avatar
    David

    Here is a write up about the origin of the word :Gay’.

  10. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    ac
    ‘wifey’ did only waitin fa a x-cuse ta ga wid de inlaws. any x-cuse.

    BAFBFP
    ‘cording to Pat, you look real serious in dis pic. still hansum but tu serius man. i wanna see sum teets man.
    And by de way, same sex relationships is a moral issue ma brotha. It eida moral or immoral. I couldn care less eitha way. My ROK is as strait as cupid arrah. Yours t’ick n hard, his ‘strait’ n……….(de nu year now start, behave)

  11. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Could we just leave the gay people alone? If they want to get married, let them. What they do isn’t going to bother me. All like now gay people doing what ever it is that gay people do, I don’t know nor care so long as no-one asks me to join them and then a simple “no thank you” will do.

  12. David Avatar
    David

    The question here Anonymous is about Gays using the institution of marriage.

    Here is the link to the BBC program ongoing.

  13. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    According to some gay people are ok if they remain closetted and ‘depressed’. They are ok if they stay in the hair salons and needle work places etc… they are ok if we dont know ‘anything’about dem except what we presuppose they are about sexually. How many times have we heard someone say about someone who is perceived to be effeminate… “he is such a bulla” or ” dont bend down near he” etc etc YEt clearly unless this person would only know these intimate details of the target by knowing him intimately. But in incidences like this scenario it is accepted in our society to presuppose.

    We as a community assume so many negative things about gay people . We coin ( or throw about) terms like “gay agenda” as if oppressed groups ARE NOT supposed to want better for themselves. We speak of being gay as a lifestyle choice when clearly based on the reception that gays get in this society it would not seem like something that anyone would chose.

    We love to bring up immorality with reference to gays while not doing so with many clearly immoral activites in our society . Being a village ram is met with Bravado.

    and then there is the question of the children… In a society where there is so many cases of children growing up without a father and its acceptable I cant see how gay people having equal rights would make a difference… What exactly is the function of a parent? Are parents here solely to show children specifically how how to have male-female intercourse ??? Has our role been reduced to that?

    Is being gay/ homosexual only about sex?? Are all homosexuals INCAPABLE of showing love, giving love, commanding respect, working , paying taxes, showing commitment to community etc…

    Either they are deserving of equal rights( human rights )or they are not. If you are saying no then you are saying that we should continue to treat homosexuals as third class citizens as less that us. Unacceptable!

  14. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Have to agree with BAFBFP. Came a cross this interesting series on the exponential function:

  15. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    Marriage is a civil /human right so of course gay marriage should be allowed. They should be allowed to have all the benefits/rights that everyone else has …

  16. ac Avatar
    ac

    It seems to me that so of you are avoiding anwering the question as asked.
    It would say it does raise an issue for concern especially when it affect the minds of children. Parents have enough other social issues to deal with and at this point don’t need another one.

    @BAfBFP

    I bought me a new pillow for de pillow talk just for you

  17. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    “Faulty reasoning about traditional values as a cover for prejudice!”

    If gays are a allowed to be in committed relationship with all the benefits that everyone else enjoys then the childrens minds will be BROADENED and they hopefully would be less conflicted and bigotted…what is so wrong with that!

  18. sad very sad Avatar
    sad very sad

    i am suspicious of your intentions: this subject matter appears once again on this blog

    sad very sad !

  19. David Avatar
    David

    The question of the program so far was when the gay man was asked if a child by egg fertilization misses something by not having a mother, the answered came back NO.

  20. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    The BU agenda….again…very sad really.

    The solution to all your fears DAVIDis to COMPEL all men to marry and STAY married to women AND produce children….

    Anything different than this is unacceptable and IMMORAL!!! Really! because the children wont be able to cope otherwise

  21. ac Avatar
    ac

    @huh????????
    In the early stages of development a child’s mind minic what it sees.It is not easy to understand or differentiate everythingand to be exposed to two people of the same sex getting married can be confusing.
    I as an adult could not careless what their life styles involve .It is always easy to call people names when their is a difference of opinion .However that does not solve the problem.

  22. David Avatar
    David

    @Huh??

    Continue with the labels of BU it doesn’t matter. We have stated our dislike for the gay lifestyle and we will continue to defend our position, until such time there is clear evidence that we are wrong.

    BU believes there are characteristics associated with the traditional marriage as we know it which supports the concept of procreation, man and woman and other values which we believe to be necessary for the optimal or best environment for raising children and family. This concept of the traditional value of marriage is beneficial at the societal level through the meaning it projects. To dismantle these benefits to include homosexuals without properly studying the impact of the dismantlement is simplistic. Let homosexuals create their own version of marriage.

    Some of us will continue to speak-out to the society we want to build.

  23. Raymond Avatar
    Raymond

    Bonny Peppa I shall ignore your question and say straight up that I have been following your infinite commemts I do intend to contribute to BU in a positive way! By the way ever had a sperm sample? How was the sensation? How de hell ya tink ya mek de grade? You an ya inuendos doan wuck wid me cause you know i got de plastea fa ya saars! More power to de wickers an B….s God be dey judge!!

  24. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    At this point ‘huh?’ above has laid some excellent points points on assessing the issue rationally.

    From the ‘civil’ union’ to the issue of children without both parents anyway, to the double standards on morality and judement of others.

    Well said.

    From an approach that is wary of any ‘discrimination’ of groups per se, I find it hard to go against these points.

    In society, there is a line to be drawn on obvious activity that clearly not only destroys the individual but is detrimental to society e.g. illegal drug use.

    However, that is another matter.

  25. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    who is dismantling anything…

    I agree a child mimics what it sees …so I suggest we all work on hetersexual marriage which are clearly not doing very well as we speak… WE can do this without denying the gays their equal human rights…

    we can be separate BUT EQUAL!

    Clearly not all men are marrying and staying married to women. And clearly there are many dysfunctional heterosexual marriages as we speak …and clearly there are many women who are having children while not being married. And ac prey tell how are those children doing…???? and what are you doing to help them???

    So David I need you since you are so worried about morals and change to speak up REPEATEDLY ABOUT these failings in Barbados as opposed to only having an anti gay agenda!!! please check your blog and shopw me that u do so and have been doing so …! Let the cap fit who it fits!

  26. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    But Im done because Im giving you mor of my time that you deserve to be honest! I lsitened to the programme you psoted and I hope you did to…. I cant see how any intelligent, well read OPENMINDED and humane person can listen to that programme and continue along the line the you continue on UNLESS of course they are not OPENminded …

    I leave you to keep your head in the sand like you always do!

  27. David Avatar
    David

    You are CORRECT that there is a lot of remedial work to be done to hetero-relationships. BU believes imperfect or not marriage is an aspirational event which our small society should maintain. To DISMANTLE the historical significance of marriage by accommodating homosexual marriage could bring a slue of other problems. As the guy said on the program, it is symbolic to homosexuals only, there is no material benefit so why ask for something which projects a particular meaning to heterosexuals?

  28. David Avatar
    David

    @Huh???

    We listened to the program and it seems you have conveniently ignored that there are some who don’t agree with gay using the institution of marriage. Why do you think the BBC hosted such a program? Did you hear the guy from Mexico who agreed that outside of Mexico City same sex marriages will NOT fly?

  29. David Avatar
    David

    Here is a link to the Podcast of the show today.

  30. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    @ huh???? January 1,2010 @ 3:38pm

    On Barbados Underground
    Black Fathers and “Their” Children
    September 27, 2008.

    (What has been and is being done on Barbados Underground)

  31. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @David
    In speaking of dismantling marraige as an institution, what really is marriage?

    There are two components. First there is the religious component and then there is the law. In this case it is a question of how the law has institutionalised marriage to allow two people to become one in law.

    In this case, the recognition of marriage is not about the church but the State. So while the church may not be marrying people of the same sex, what people are saying is that if they choose a partner, they should be allow the same right under the law as anybody who was married by religious rites.

    One question. Can the law in Barbados refuse to recognise the five wives of a person legally married in their country if that person visited here?

    International law deems that Barbados has no choice but to accept and recognise what was legally done in another country. Even when it comes to culture, that is why a policeman could not order a veiled woman to take off the veil, but a motorcyclist can be ordered to take off the helmet, for security reasons, for example, when entering a bank. Not so with a veiled woman.

    Another point is that a lot of this deviance from the norm has to do with high population levels. The more people the more likelihood that there will be great diversity. It may be simply nature trying to find balance.

  32. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    @ David

    Please see suggestion box

  33. Tiffany Avatar
    Tiffany

    Why are the rights of the minority being put before the majority to vote on? Gay people have always made up 10% of the population, how are we a threat?

    If you are straight, gay marriage dose not affect you, why cause your not getting one! My marriage isn’t going to threaten your, why? Because I’m not married to you.

    People just need to mind there business, keep there religious views to themselves and the world would be a much better place. Stay out of my relationships and stay out of my bedroom! Its so sad that all people can think of is how 2 guys get it on, and not the substance of the relationship.

  34. kiki Avatar
    kiki

    like weed… people do whatever they want regardless of the law way

  35. gonetothe dogs Avatar
    gonetothe dogs

    in this day and age is there any good reason why i cant marry this good looking alsation dog whom i love very much-in the near future

  36. ac Avatar
    ac

    @huh
    I think you gone bump your head
    Question : How the hell is two people of the same sex getting married comparable to divorce? That in itself is another topic.

  37. Avatar
    Anonymous

    @gonetothe dogs

    when the Alsatian dog verbally or in writing consents to marrying you (in a form that is generally and clearly understood by the majority of citizens) then no problem go ahead.

    I read that the President of South Africa is marrying his third wife. This is actually his fifth wife but one has died and another has divorced him. I suppose he is an exemplar no matter his alleged rape of an HIV positive friend of his family while still married. He was acquitted of the rape charge by the way.

    Also in Africa woman-woman marriages exists. See the following link:

    http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/journals/nwsa/nws12-1.html

    The first sentence in the introduction reads: “The practice of women marrying women is somewhat common in certain societies in West Africa, Southern Africa, East Africa, and the Sudan (O’Brien 1977)”.

    Now these examples are not given to justify gay marriage but to show that marriage is a social construct.

  38. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Why should reasonable, intelligent people have to justify anything that is done out of respect and appreciation for another, irrespective of gender?

  39. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Tiffany that is some Web-site you’ve got going. Nice to see young people with open minds not being afraid to open their mouths as well. Keep it up

  40. ac Avatar
    ac

    @BAFBFP
    Answer: Not everyone is “reasonable or
    “intelligent”.
    However that does not include you my dear.

  41. ac Avatar
    ac

    @Tiffany
    Not everyone that has an opposite opinion on same sex marriage is religious.The are some places of worship that have no problem marrying same sex couples.

  42. Creeping Tiger Avatar
    Creeping Tiger

    creeping into 2010

  43. Johnny Postle Avatar
    Johnny Postle

    This whole issue of bulling and bullers marrying ain’t worth my two cents in commentary.

  44. Raymond Avatar
    Raymond

    the lesbian and gay communities I am sure wishes BU a continued voice for the year 2010 and beyond and johnny postles are every where. They are not easily exterminated and what a lot of people don’t know is that they’re essential like a deputy is. The’re smart little buggers!

  45. Ready Done Avatar
    Ready Done

    What benefits does gay marriages bring to society?

    I knew a guy once he is the laziest person alive, yet he had all the ‘bling’ one could have, when asked how he does it the reply was confusing(at the time). he simply said he was sitting on a gold mine.

    Years after i understood that he meant being gay allows him to get money with out having a job.

    From what i see most gays are just in it for easy money, at least the receiving half, by allowing gay men to marry we will allow gay men to openly advance towards or young boys, bribing them with ‘bling’, before long our society will have a noticeable chunk of the labor force (young males), not contributing with labor or even fathering children, but busy selling their ‘gold mine’ for vanity.

    Not too long ago gays were stone to death, good thing or society has advance to the point where we see this is wrong and stopped the practice, What is right about Gay?

  46. huh???? Avatar
    huh????

    Ready Done: NO WORDS

    Is it immoral for a single woman to have a child? Is there legislation to stop this practice?

    What is the ideal bajan family? What percentage of children are raised this way? What percentage are not? Is there legislation to ensure that the ideal is maintained? Why not? What percentage of dysfunctional marriages exist in Barbados? Provide analysis of adults with psychosocial problems and possible correlations with how they were brought up ( single mother, single father, extended family, church,no church, etc).

    What im saying is that its easy to say that this ideal is what makes the difference but in reality it is harder to prove. What I also know via history is that things never stay the same, that we are continually evolving. Does anyone think that Barbados will ever return to ‘Leave it to Beaver’ days??? Actually were we ever like ‘Leave it to Beaver’???

    We all have the ability to think and to be fair! If we never accepted change I would still be cutting cane and begging mass for some provisions… with 15 pickneys from several women!

    Perhaps giving homosexuals equal rights represents a step forward not backward! Think about it!

  47. Bonny Peppa Avatar
    Bonny Peppa

    Raymond
    I am AGAINST same-sex marriage. Now, I know how that hurts but it doesn’t change my mind. Hurt on.

    This ‘cap’ like it fittin you true ta size. Ya real touchous bout de subject. doan lose ta much sleep, cause i shan’t.

  48. ac Avatar
    ac

    @Ready Done

    You ought to keep your bigoted comments in your closet.

  49. Johnny Postle Avatar
    Johnny Postle

    @Raymond

    My entire family of thousands do not mind a little cleansing from time to time. After all we can become quite numerous if our numbers are not kept in check by controlling means. At least we fully understand our sexual orientation and no one has proven yet that we engage in extensive bullering. We do not corrupt public morals with our tootings of rights for immoral and disgusting sexual acts that is a cesspool of disgust by sick twisted individuals like yourself. So insulting me and my family do not mean squat. I am a Postle and proud of it. Are you proud to be a …….?

  50. J Avatar
    J

    ac wrote “It would say it does raise an issue for concern especially when it affect the minds of children. Parents have enough other social issues to deal with ”

    I miss the good old days. In the good old days there was big people business and little children business and parents did not have to explain other people’s relationships to little children.

    How about telling the children to mind their own business and to keep out of big people business

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