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Is This The Start Of World War III?

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Submitted by Bush Tea on January 1, 2009

Bush Tea has noted the ominous silence of the BU family on the most recent events in the mid east, where the brilliantly logical Israelis are again employing their often tried tactic of bombing and killing their neighbours into co-operation. Clearly their strategists are banking on the hope that this approach MUST work eventually –especially after decades of failure. (Submitted on January 1, 2009 but was not picked-up by BU, sorry about that Bush Tea – David)

Clearly this is a situation, which has been refined by the US republican party, where in the lead-up to a national election, unpopular governments seek to rally national support for a ‘war’ against some unfortunate common foe –preferably someone who can be labelled a ‘terrorist’.

The Israeli plan is obviously to build up the usual hype, kill a few Hamas ‘terrorist’ – and their collateral family members behind whom they are hiding (in their homes) and wait for the USA to protect them in the UN while a face saving ‘truce’ is negotiated.

The ruling party now confirmed at home and by the USA as ‘strong on terror’ and ‘able to protect the country’ would then be re-elected.

That is the plan. Here is the reality.

The current operation by Israel is going to finally bring the militant Palestinian forces together. (This happened 2 years ago in Lebanon for Hezbollah – but that seem to have been forgotten by Israel – or maybe the incumbent party is REALLY desperate).

This will result in the overthrow –this year- of ALL of the pro-western governments in the region –Egypt, Saudi Arabia…. ALL….

A VERY powerful strongman will then emerge, powered by the unifying force generated by this current (and previous) Israeli action, by the USA’s Iraq debacle, by control of huge oil reserves, access to very sophisticated weapons and an ideology fuelled by revenge and war.

The next New Year will be a very bleak one…. And Israel will pay a HUGE price for this approach to neighbour relations. Where is George Washington when he is needed? Is it not he who said that the best way to destroy your enemies is to make them into your friends????

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Palestinians Continue To Pay A Penalty For The World’s Misdeeds

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474 responses to “Is This The Start Of World War III?”

  1. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    where are the dragons, carlos?

  2. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    @ Chris, yes, I am ‘ignorant’ regarding many things, ‘not knowledgeable’ but, NOT so regarding the historicity of the Israli/Palestinian confict, of which you and most others are, you ARE THE FOOLISH ONE, with your ‘feet firmily planted in mid-air’ remain so, that’s your choice!

  3. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    To those who are willing to learn a bit more about the ‘historic’ truth and reality of the State of Israel, and the ‘utter’ vengence and hatred for the Jews as demonstrated by the ‘Arab’ states against her, from the moment she gained her ‘Statehood’ in 1948, here are some of the facts at that time, and following:

    More Specific Background:

    The Jews, Kurds, Chaldeans, Assyrians, Berbers, Dinkas and more are peoples rooted in the Middle East, and neighbouring parts of the world, who have just as much a rightful claims to their homelands as do the Arabs who surged out on conquest through Islamist ideology starting in the 7th century. Indeed, in Palestine/Judea and Samaria, Arabs are descendents of the INVADERS.

    The 1919 post WW I Versailles settlements, for all the sins and errors made there that helped lay the foundations for WW II, sought to remake Europe and linked lands in the aftermath of the collapse of the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman Empires, on the principle that each people so far as possible, should have its own recognized homeland, and where reasonable, their own state.

    This is precisly, the premise of the wave of ‘nationalism’ that has led to the League of Nations, the United Nations, and the wave of post-colonial independent states all across the world. A wave that we benefit from here in the Caribbean, under no other circumstances would independent micro-states like ours across the region be viable.

    As a part of that process, Chaim Weizman (representing the Jewish Agency) and Feisal Hussein (representing the Sherif of Mecca and the leadership of the then envisioned emerging Arab nation; later, King of Iraq, and his brother Abdullah, became King of Trans-Jordan Palestine (now Jordan) entered into a 1919 Versailles process side agreement in London, for the joint, mutually supportive development of the Arab and Jewish nations in the Middle East.

    Sadly, largely through Islamist fanaticism and murder [not discounting the perfidy of British and French Displomatists), this was not to be so. Riots in the 1920’s and an Arab revolt in the 1930’s led to the situation where post WW II, the British wished to surrender the LON mamndate to the successor of the League of Nations, the UN.

    The UN voted partition, the Arab League threatened war or genocide. The Jews accepted partition and declared Israel’s Independence, leading to an ‘Invasion’ by FIVE Arab armies WITHIN 24 hours, May 15/15, 1948. Against all odds, Israel survived, and in addition to refugees from Europe etc, absorbed a further 600,000+ refugee Jews EXPELLED or FORCED out from the Arab-dominated ME states. These constitute an irreconcilable refugee population, and are the capstone legitimising rational for Israel as a land of refuge, and are the PRESENT MAJORITY of Jews in Israel.

    Now, a similar number of Arab refugees, mostly (but not wholly) owing to the invitation to Arabs to MOVE OUT, so the genocide could proceed unhindered, (to annihilate the Jews, and their new statehood) multiplied by Arab atrocity stories against Jews, were forced to remain in camps by THEIR BROTHER Arabs [in the case of Egypt and Gaza, at machine-gun point}, with the declared intent to exploit their suffering to foment ETERNAL war until ISRAEL WASA DESTROYED.

    Arab-Israeli War of 1948.

    Remember, the new State of Israel, was mandated by the Balfour Declaration of 1917, unanimously approved and codified by the League of Nations, three years after the Balfour Declaration, YET, the utter hatred for the Jews, manifested itself, literally within hours of the ‘birth’ by Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebnon and Saudi Arabia; where roughly half a million Jews in Israel, were now surrounded by over 40 milion Arabs, who sole intention were to DESTROY, INNIHILATE the Jews, and their rightful homeland.

    Between February 24 to July 20, in 1949, several unsuccessful Arab invasions were defeated.

    6 Day War Of 1967.

    Secret Weapon:

    Mrs. Golda Meir, former Prime Minister of Israel, said: “We Jews have a secret weapon in our struggle with the Arabs – we have NO place to go.”

    The Threats:

    Several weeks before the war of 1967, Egypt issued a postage showing Nasser (the President) with a map of Israel in flames at his right hand.

    On May 18, 1967, Nasser demanded the withdrawal of UN forces from the Sanai. The UN readily complied. And Arab nations began massing troops on the borders of Israel. Egypt lined up 80,000 men; Syria 40,000; Jordan 40,000; saudi Arabia 20,000; Iraq sent 5000 troops to help Syria.

    On may 22nd, Nasser announced that the Gulf of Aqaba would be closed to Israeli shipping. Since Egypt had denied Israel’s use of the Suez Canal, the Port of Elath was Israel’s only port to the Red Sea, and the closing of Aqaba threatened its survival.

    Before fighting started, the radio in Cairo announced: “Our people have been waiting 20 years for this battle. Now they will teach Israel the lesson of DEATH!”

    Nasser went on the radio to say that any war with Israel “WILL BE TOTAL” and the objective will be to DESTROY Israel.” A Syrian army commander predicted Israel’s destruction in 4 days.

    Israel was hedged in on 3 sides by Arab forces, and OUTNUMBERED 20 to 1.

    According to Newsweek, the most important new factor in the start of the 1967 war was “the installation of an estimated 60 new missile sites. All told, the Egyptians now have some 180 Soviet installed SAM-2 ground-to-air missiles and 240 of the more advanced SAM-3s. Egypt’s air defense has been further bolstered by a Soviet radar system along the Mediterranean coast and by the addition of 50 new MIG-21s, giving Cairo an air force of 450 Soviet jets.”

    “beneath this air umbrella, the Russians have armed the 100,000 Egyptian troops along the canal with a vast array of modern weapons. this includes 750 Soviet-built tanks, 350 Czechoslovakian amphibious craft and perhaps as many as 1,000 artillery pieces ( Three dozen of these are the mighty Russian 203 millimeter howitzers, which can lob a 200- pound warhead on to Israel’s Bar Lev line from 18 miles inside Egyptian lines). And stiffening the Egyptian ranks, there are some 12,000 Russians – half of them operational troops manning SAM-3 sites and the MIG-21s…”

    THE WAR:

    When Israeli radar picked up flights of enemy bombers, they launched a pre-emptive strike simultaneously against Egypt, Jordan and Syria, attacking 25 Arab air bases. When the air war cleared, 400 Arab warplanes were gone.

    The hardest fighting, however, took place in Jordan against Jordan’s cracked Arab Legion. On the second day of the war, the Israeli’s took the Old City of Jerusalem. Then the Jordanians were driven east of the river Jordan, and the Israelis also advanced to the Dead Sea.

    The Arabs NOW called for a ceasefire. Jerusalem, for the first time in nearly 2,600 years, came under Jewish control. In one week’s time, Israel’s land increased from 8,000 to 34,000 square miles, or four times its original territory.

    NOTE CAREFULLY:

    The Balfour Declaration of 1917, mandated a land area of approximately 38,000 square miles, for Israel, BUT, she was denied this, when Britian unilaterally GAVE 75% of this mandated land, to create the state of Transjordan, now Jordan, the real Palestinian State.

    Itn’t it interesting and ironic, that now in 1967, when the combined Arab forces, backed by the military might of Russian, sought to Annihilate Israel from her rightful homeland, end up loosing around 26,000 square miles which they were never entitled to in the first place.

    Shortest War In History:

    Between June 5 to 10, 1967, Israel won the ‘shortesr war in history.’ All three confrontational states, of Egypt, Syria and Jordan were defeated.

    Each and every time Israel has to go to war, it is ALWAYS first started by the Arabs, who have ONE purpose, to DESTROY and ANNIHILATE her, BUT, they can’t do this; because Almight God, promised over and over again, that when the Jews were finally re-gathered from their world-wide dispersion, after 2,000 years, they WOULD NEVER again be exiled, yes, the most horrific confrontation against Israel is yet to come, BUT, the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, will make His soon, Second Advent, at the Battle of Armageddon, and will DESTROY the wicked armies of the Anti-Christ one world government, just by uttering ‘His’ Word of wrath against them.

    To all you scoffers and mockers of God’s Word, the Bible, the season is at hand, the End-times are here, the world wide economic crisis, is just beginning, we ain’t see nothing yet; and Israel is the ‘apex’ of all fulfillment of bible prophecy, and is literally unfolding before our very eyes.

    Put your ‘PRIDE’ aside, and realize what is happening before us all, as the End it near at hand.

  4. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Carlos there is nothing wrong with your history of Israel.
    Well put and correct.
    Not sure the end is at hand just yet I hope not!
    To those who insult Carlos.By indulging in personal and ignorant attacks you are only proving the weakness of your own argument.

  5. another view Avatar
    another view

    Off course Carlos has correctly presented an acurate history of Israel and related the current events to the imminent return of Christ.
    Let him that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

  6. Dissident Avatar
    Dissident

    Add my “name” to those who agree with the accuracy of the historical chronology as set out by Carlos.

    You may not agree with his theology and eschatology but his historical facts are correct.

    Resorting to “ad hominem” attacks is prima facie evidence of the weakness of your reasoning. Sounds like ill-disguised anti-Semitism to me.

  7. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Carlos is no different to the Arabs.
    He has his beliefs and they have theirs.Everything written above can be disputed by the other side. What make Carlos’ point of view the right one?
    Who is to say the Catholics are not right…or the Arabs?
    This is the problem with religious fanatics from both sides…..both think they are right and anyone who disagrees is painted in a bad way…..such is life!!
    We will just have to wait for the end.
    In the meantime continue to justify the suffering, bondage and murder of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israelis with history lessons and biblical rhetoric.

  8. another view Avatar
    another view

    Technician
    The history of the Roman Catholic church is also well known starting with its origins when Constantine merged the state with the church in AD 313.

    Before this we had a NT church that had survived the most attacks by the devil using the Roman Emperors.

    Techie I would bet my lost dollar that you have sudied niether the Bible or Church History.

    I dont think that it is any ones desire to as you say justify the suffering, bondage and murder of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israelis with history lessons and biblical rhetoric.

    But Carlos and others have presented an accurate history of Israel and acurrately presented the Biblical view.

    No one likes to see suffering but we are not in control; we only espouse our personal beliefs based on years of study.

  9. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @another view…

    So, if I may please ask you and all.

    What are some *achievable* solutions?

    I would argue that some serious and honest discussion needs to be (and, I hope and pray, is being) undertaken.

    What are the *true* substantive issues preventing solutions?

    How many of them are based on emotion?

  10. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    And, if I may, a follow up question.

    How many of them are based on (or, at least, influenced by) money?

  11. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Technician if are so certain that Carlos historical view (not his beliefs) can be challenge, why don’t you start the ball?

    ….remember you said ‘everything he said above can be disputed by the otherside” research their arguments and bring them on.

  12. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    @ Technician, and others of his mind-set, who are unable for whatever reasons, to think ‘critically’ in light of what little evidence has been presented vis-a-vis Israel and the Arab nations, as there is TONS more evidence and facts, in support of Israel’s position in defending her rights as a duly constituted Nation, in the face of the Arabs, resolute, hell-bent, intent, to DESTROY and ANNIHILATE her, period!!

    As Simon Greenleaf, a father of the theory of ‘evidence’ in his famous 1874 work, “Testimony of the Evangelists…rule of municiple law, said:

    “A proposition of fact is proved when its truth is established by competent and satisfactory evidence.”

    @ Chris Halsall, and your questions:

    ‘What are some ‘achievable’ solutions?’

    ‘What are the ‘true’ substantive issue preventing solutions?’

    Israel has made numerous efforts at ‘making’ peace over the years, and each and every time, it ‘backfired’ in her face. Why?

    Because the PLO and other militant Islamists, DON’T want peace, they just desire to persecute and torment the Jews, until they have enough ‘nuke’ power to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth, the ISSUE has NEVER being over land, it has always being an ‘Everlasting Hatred’ for the Jewish people, who must NOT exist, and especially so, in the Arab, Islamic, Middle East.

    In the 6-day-war in 1967, with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, despite Israeli pleas to keep out, and then settle for a “barrage of honour” after it began to shell Israeli territory, Jordan was counter-attacked, and the West Bank was captured. (Jordan had captured this area in the 1948 war, and had illegally ‘annexed’ it. Thus, West Bank Palestinian Arabs held Jordanian Citizenship, and indeed in 1969-70 when internal unrest heightened, King Hussein offered Arafat the premiership; which HE refused. A civil war ensued and the PLO WAS expelled from Jordan; always bearing in mind, that Jordan, IS the de jure Palestinian state, having being created out of out of Israel’s mandated, Balfour Declaration, when Britian CARVED out 75% of Israel’s duly ratified land, by the League of Nations, and gave it to Abdullah for Transjordan, now Jordan.

    Anyway, back to Arafat and King Hussein; that is what led to the establishment of the PLO in Lebanon, a material factor triggering in the Lebanese civil war of the 1070’s – 80’s; and the trigger to the sad situation for that former Paris of the Middle East, Beirut.

    Syria, finally, was counter attacked, and the Golan heights was captured. The same heights that for 20 years had been used to shell Israeli farmers in Galilee.

    Subsequently, after the REFUSAL to engage in a land for real peace deal post 1967, the 1973 war led to the settlement with Egypt and the exchange of ALL of the Sanai for real peace. ( A subsequent settlement with Jordan also issued in exchange of a much smaller slice of land for real peace).

    So, we see Israel always attempting to broker peace, by giving up pieces of her mandated land, which never satisfied the Islamic radical Jihadists; one excuse or another, civilian-targetting terrorism has continued against Israel, NOW backed up by Iranian geopolitical and Islamist global supremacist ambitions, that have led to the arming of Hezbollah [effectively the Iranian Revolutionary Guards’ Foreign Legion] and Hamas [a wing of the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood] with increasingly long ranged rockets.

    In the case of Hamas, over the past decade or so, 10,000 rockets and mortar bombs have been lobbed into Israel, in what is in effect long term harassing fire, mostly targetting civilian settlements. And, the rockets used are gradually being escalated in range, now evidently approaching the 50 miles to Dimona.

    Then, Dec 19, after a six-month truce, Hamas began bombardments AGAIN (actually, it never stopped, just diminished in ferocity).

    Israe’s Response:

    Having seen this gathering threat, Israel has acquired 1,000 GBU 39 -60 mile range, GPS-guided mini bunker busters and other precision munitions. These, it began to use in a counter attack that targetted Hamas’s munitions, launch sites and command structures [except for the main HQ, which is in bunkers direct UNDER a major hospital].

    The major challenge has been that Hamas NOT only bombards civilians, BUT HIDES behind innocent Arab civilians, using them as human shields. So Israel has responded by using precision attacks, guided based on intelligence, much of that from unmanned aerial vehicles that have slowly compilled adatabase of attack-points.

    In short, it is clear that Israel is going to considerable expense and effort precisely to AVIOD civilian casualties as much as is possible in war.

    Indeed, the reports that they are phoning individual households near strike zones and advising occupants to seek shelter, is along the same lines. Sadly, the further reports, and vidoe of children being dragged off as such shields, that reveal Hamas militiamen, are using this to put civilians into the zones as human shields is utterly disgusting.

    And that contrast fits in well with the decades long propaganda and war crimes, used to INCITE further regional and global hostility against them.

    Remember, Hamas by charter, IS dedicated to the DESTRUCTION of Israel, one way or the other; and in a context where a ‘relevant hadith’ (authoritative tradition) from the prophet Mahommed, says:

    “…it was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him] said; ‘I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him] say: ‘The Dajjaal (Devil) will come down to this pond at Marriqanaat ( a valley near Madeenah [Medina] and most of those who go out to follow him will be womenm such that a man will go back to his wife, mother, daughter, sister or (paternal) aunt and WILL TIE THEM UP lest they go out to join him. Then Allah will grant the Muslims victory over him, and they will KILL him and his party, unti…”

    Notice just who are the evident “Party of the devil” in this tradition.

    So, biblically and historically, there CAN BE NO Peace, but, in the not too distant future, we will see the appearance of a ‘Man’ the AntiChrist, who will sign a ‘seven-year’ peace treaty with Israel, a massive deception, not only to Israel, but to the world at large, all prophesied in God’s Word, the Bible; and the existing tension, anxiety, and worry of most people, will welcome such a ‘one’ who will deceive most people, Israel included.

    Sorry, Chris, there IS no human solution to this ancient conflict, for Only when the true Prince of Peace makes His glorious appearance, The Lord Jesus Christ, and establishes His Reign in Jerusalem, will mankind know what true peace really is.

  13. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Carlos,

    you know the non existent and the invisible look remarkably similar

  14. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    what is jesus waiting for? he likes to watch human suffering?

  15. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    is firing on a hospital ” going to considerable expense and effort precisely to AVIOD civilian casualties as much as is possible in war.” ????

  16. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Carlos, I think we will need a history of the word Palestine as it is used today. It’s epYour reference to Palestine, Jordan and Trans-Jordan, can be cleared up by this. See if you can reference in that response, the Hasemites, and the people of Philistia, and also the area by todays geographical reference points that would have been Canaan.

    When we are done with this, we should look at the term “Occupiers” that is used by some to define Israelis.

  17. Yardbroom Avatar
    Yardbroom

    There is a bashing of emotion in this debate because it is tied to concern and a particular position.

    Do not bash emotion for it is a necessary component of what makes us “human,” without it I dare say there would be no hate but then there would also be no “love.” It is how we control those emotions, which are shackled to a solution of our problems, and not the emotion itself.

    When I submitted on this issue I purposely said I would not venture into the “Biblical” because I knew what would ensue…and so it has proved. My good friend Georgie Porgie would have a different view I am sure, there is no loss of respect for him by me as a result.

    When young children’s body parts drip from a tangled web of concrete and steel and you see young mothers’ eyes red rimmed with tears, that makes most people emotional, if that is to be of no account…please put me on the side of those who are emotional.

  18. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    Adrian H, yes, I will give much needed correction on the term ‘Occupier’ referring always to Israel, a ‘Myth’ created and propagandized repeatedly over the last 60 years, by the PLO and others, to make the Jews appear as the ‘agressors’ when in fact, the Jews are the real ‘refugees’ NOT the Palestianins, all there in the historic documents.

    The Arabs, started this deceptive use of ‘Turnspeak’ a propaganda ‘LIE’ a cynical inverting of ‘facts’ to make the ‘victim’ Israel, look like the agressor.

    This has been used relentlessly by Arafat and his Islamist cohorts, and sadly, not seen or understood by many throughout the world.

    I will be very busy with other matters from today, until Tuesday, will return to this at that time.

  19. patinho Avatar
    patinho

    I’ve always been firmly on the Palestinian side for as long as i can recall. I’m not anti-Semitic but the thing is the US and the west have always been pro-Israel. Israel is a manufactured state created for foreigners with the slightest drop of Jewish ancestry immigrating in droves to their “promised land”. History shows that in recent centuries there hadn’t been major clashing of Jew and Arab (or Muslim) under the ottoman empire which was Islamic. The empire tolerated religious freedom and did not impose Islam on the lands absorbed into it, unlike the christian European colonizers. In the late 19th century, European Jews started pushing the Zionist movement in response to antisemitism in Europe and since then, increasing waves of immigration poured into Palestine. Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in the empire. When the empire fell the British, through the Balfour Declaration, made it their intention to create a Jewish state in Palestine and since then all hell broke loose as the British permitted thousands upon thousands of of the global Jewish stock to immigrate. Hitler’s war on Jews intensified western sympathy for the Jewry and the creation of the Jewish homeland. (*note that Palestine was not the only proposed homeland for the Jews by the British and the league of nations). When the British tried to limit immigration, the Jews used terrorism to achieve their political objective much like how they claim the Palestinians are doing now.
    The West (main France initially then the USA) have continued to disproportionately facilitate Israel’s economic and military rise and nuclear program in response to threats from their perceived enemies at the time Egypt and the Soviets.
    Many people are saying that the Palestinians don’t want peace but it is hard to have a fair solution if from the inception of the conflict all the major world powers are supporting the other side. Israel is an occupying force in Gaza and other parts of Palestine, which the british set aside for the palestinians over 60 yrs ago. The average israeli is of european ancestry whilst palestinians are arab therefore oppositin to a imposed European nation in the Mideast (as Europeans have done throughout the new world) is expected. About 1/10 of Palestinians were Jews at the collapse of the ottoman empire but by the end of ww2 it was 3/10 and with their wealth and connections, legally and legally significantly increased their landownership. These are the roots of the problem. How much they have to do with the current conflict is debatable.
    Roughly 80% of the world’s Jews are split evenly between Israel and the US. The financial clout, political control and Zionist ideologies of American Jews and general sympathy for the Jewry ensures that Israel’s cause will continue for decades to come. Equally so, the staunch resistance of the Palestinians to the state of Israel and their hope for their own state on their terms, will also ensure that this conflict continues into the near future. This is until somehow the US is able to install a puppet democracy in Palestine.
    I do not support the methods the Palestinians use nor the disproportionate use of the israelis which shows that both sides have run out of suitable options to resolving the conflict. The solution maybe the US achieving its goal of systematic eliminating all of its opponents in the Mideast (Iran is next in line, Iraq is all but over) since its intention is to maintain the state of israel. Another possible solution will be the pacification of the hard line leaders of the Palestinian cause however, that doesn’t seem to be anywhere on the horizon.
    This conflict classically shows that mass immigration and the social impact it causes can have severe consequences. The sudden and unprecedented altering of the status quo in Palestine fueled the resentment for the state of Israel. The immediate creation of two separate states as they stand now, is not the answer since i believe, like Israel, that this would result in a strong enemy Palestinian state on its borders ready to wipe it off the face of the earth.The solution is a strong non aggressive Palestinian state built over time with the help of the western powers instead of a weak crippled group of administered regions filled with animosity.

  20. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    @ Patinho, like the majority, you are likewise ‘hoodwinked’ deceived, by much misinformation disseminated by the Palestinian and other apologists, regarding the ‘historic’ facts about the Jews, and their origins of ancestry prior to returning to their ancient homeland in 1948.

    As I said in my last thread, I don’t have the time right now to deal with this; but will make a few comments re, a few of your distortions:

    “Jews and Arabs lived peacefully in the Empire” (Ottoman)

    This is a terrible untruth, no doubt propogandized by Haj Amin Al-Husseini, 1937 -Grand Mufti Jerusalem, and others of his ilk.

    Joan Peters put it so well in her monumental work, ‘From Time Immemorial’ this way:

    “For every refugee , adult or child, in Syria, Lebanon or elsewhere in the Arab world who compels our sympathy, there IS A JEWISH refugee who FLED from the Arab country of his birth. For every Arab who moved to neighboring lands, a Jew was FORCED to FLEE from a community where he and his ancestors may have lived for 2000 years.”

    As Hal Lindsey, in his well documented and presented work, ‘The Everlasting Hatred The Roots of Jihad’ says:

    “The world seldom, if ever, hears about the more than 800,000 Jewish refugees who fled Aran terror and hatred and settled in Israel. Perhaps it is because every single one of those refugees was accepted, resettled and provided for by the struggling Jewish state without question or hesitation. There never has been a Jewish refugee camp in Israel or anywhere else.” (p.149) emphasis added.

    Another of your gross misrepresentations, read:

    Israel is an occupying force in Gaza and other parts of Palestine…The average Israeli is of European ancestry…”

    Utter nonsense, the historic facts, as clearly documented, not the ‘Turnspeak’ of the Islamists Jihadists, reveal an entirely different position.

    I regret I am unable to continue at this time, but look forward with anticipation to setting the record straight on Tuesday.

  21. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Your arrogance has no bounds Carlos!!!

    Who is to say that ‘Patinho’ did not do his/her research and come to this conclusion based on what he/she read and understand?

    Who died and made you the only authority on this topic? (guess you would say Christ)

    Anything that goes against Israel is a myth, terrible untruths, propaganda or misrepresentations.

    There are sound arguments both for and against creation and evolution. So to can be said for the Bible and the existence of God as you describe.

    This is why, in answering AH’s question, it would make no sense to even try to reason with you.
    One thing I can safely say……if this is how Christians think and behave….I will remain as I am.

  22. JC Avatar
    JC

    Carlos fah real, I was reading a lot of your comments and I am begging you to do something for me:

    I would like you to think like a human being and not like a Christian;

    I thought the two went hand in hand! I thought that before you could ever see the face of GOD you have to had loved your neighbour as you love yourselve but most of all RESPECT them! You have failed miserably in all two aspects;

    Carlos STOP IT!

  23. JC Avatar
    JC

    I see my man GP (soon to be husband) has proved his points without the insults! I am not saying that your argument is not strong but come on man these things which are happening on both sides ARE WRONG! FULL STOP!

  24. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Carlos,

    dont wait till tuesday, the end is near

  25. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    can you look in your magic book and tell us when you jesus is coming?

  26. patinho Avatar
    patinho

    Firstly Hal Lindsey is a Zionist and therefore by default is biased towards Israel cause. Your replies on my statement concerning Jews in the Ottoman Empire are irrelevant since they are concerned with the state of Israel in 1948 and beyond. The empire was dissolved around the end of ww1 and Britain and France took control of the Middle East.
    Secondly to educate you, Gaza came into Israeli control (along with the West Bank, Golan Heights and other areas) as a result of the Six Day War in 1967. Regarding modern day Israeli ancestry, clearly documented immigration statistics show the majority are or are descendents of European Jews who fled Europe because of rising anti-Semitism and the Nazi persecution. Around the beginning of ww2, European Jews (and their descendents) accounted for accounted for roughly 90% of all Jews. Before the major efforts for the creation of Israel they immigrated to USA, Canada, South America, France and other parts of the world but eventually immigrated to the Middle East since the creation of the Jewish state.
    In case you don’t know hear a few notable European Jews: Albert Einstein, Karl Marx, Steven Spielberg, Larry King, Dick Cheney, Jerry Seinfeld, Jerry Springer, Michael Bloomberg, Sigmund Freud, Henry Kissinger. Are there any comparable notable Palestinians or Muslims you can name in American history? Jews are too influential a force in the USA, the USA will always be pro-Israel and the Palestinian cause will go unresolved.

  27. another view Avatar
    another view

    Jews are too influential a force in the USA, the USA will always be pro-Israel and the Palestinian cause will go unresolved.

    Really really?

    The USA might always be pro Israel, but soon the USA which is now in serious decline will have no power to protect Israel.

    There are rough days ahead for Israel…….followed by glorious days after the second coming.

  28. patinho Avatar
    patinho

    oh, also add to that list of jew in the us government William Cohen, James Schlesinger and Paul Wolfowitz who all served as Secretary of Defense.

  29. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ patinho…

    Dont get yourself worked up on this Carlos, he is just another bible-toting Israeli sympathizer.
    Even if the truth is there, he will find a way to dispute it by using the Bible, biased reporting and historical ‘facts’, then insult your intelligence by saying you are being duped.
    I am glad that there is still others like you to show another side to this. I hope you have the patience …cause I sure dont.

    Why doesnt he list the number of UN resolutions agreed at the UN General Assembly, which Israel completely ignores with impunity, while other countries are penalized for much less.

    Any way………we have a ceasefire …both there and on this blog….so until Tuesday.

  30. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    The US spends more on its armed forces than every other country in the world combined

    So its got some “serious declining” to do before it cant protect anyone.

  31. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    This has nothing to do with the accuracy of historical accounts, this has to do with supporting genocide.

    The devil quotes the Bible.

  32. Technician Avatar
    Technician

  33. Avatar
    Anonymous

    ROK,

    that point is lost on the christian zionists here

    no matter the validity of their historical claims, genocide is not acceptable

    another point lost on them is that being critical of Israel is not anti-semitism (anymore than being critical of the US in Iraq makes you anti-american)

  34. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    ROK,

    that point is lost on the christian zionists here

    no matter the validity of their historical claims, genocide is not acceptable

    another point lost on them is that being critical of Israel is not anti-semitism (anymore than being critical of the US in Iraq makes you anti-american)

  35. Dictionary Avatar
    Dictionary

    FYI:

    ___________

    gen·o·cide n. The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

    ____________

    While from 1948 on, one may find documented declarations of genocidal intent on the part of the Arab League, its leaders (especially in 1947 – 1967) and more particularly Hamas in recent times, there is no credible evidence that the Zionists as a whole or Israel as the state established through the success of that nationalist movement, has intended or attempted to carry out genocide; INCLUDING especially the current surgical strikes in Gaza.

    There is abundant evidence that, ever since the London Agreement and Zionist submittal to the Versailles Conference in 1919, Zionists have been willing to work with other peoples native to or long settled in their historic homeland in the ME, to jointly develop that region.

    The 2000 draft settlement more or less along adjusted lines tot he 1949 ceasefire lines, accepted by Barak and rejected by Arafat is the latest example of the locus of the real problem; ever since the 1920s.

    To in effect demand that the Israelis tolerate ever-expanding zones of harassing fire targeting its civilians (~ 10,000 rockets and mortar bombs in about 8 years), is a demand that Jews not defend themselves from attack.

    Nor, does an appeal to geography transform the anti-Semitic implications of that underlying attitude into something materially different.

    The demand that if Israel responds, it must have effectively zero casualties among the human shields used by the attacking side, is subtler but amounts to the same. Especially, as the objective evidence is that (i) they have taken extraordinary steps to minimise civilian casualties, and (ii) as ICRC observes, there is no credible evidence that they have abused WP munitions.

    The revealed implications of too many remarks above, are therefore quite, quite, quite revealing.

    As are the personal hostility and carelessness over truth otherwise evident above.

    BOTTOMLINE: BU and its commenters need to clean up their act, if they are to have any credibility among the informed.

    GEM of TKI

  36. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    I was wondering when YOU would rise again…Gem of TKI….different handle I see.

  37. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    I suppose when they bomb a hospital they must call that a “surgical strike”

  38. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    BOTTOMLINE: BU and its commenters need to clean up their act, if they are to have any credibility among the informed.

    GEM of TKI

    Wow!!!
    I guess anyone who speaks out against Israeli aggression MUST be misinformed and lacking credibility……..wow..how many people like that must live in this world.

  39. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    FYI……

    It was your ‘christian’ brethren who started the personal hostility, not to mention arrogance on this thread……but then again, as long as it is done in God’s name, I guess it is accepted as gospel.

  40. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Genocide is what is being carried out and has been carried out for years in Darfur

    The people in Darfur are mainly Muslim and they are being killed and murdered by muslims.
    They are intent in wiping out the ethnic ( African ) tribes the government being arabs.

    Since 2003, ethnic populations of Darfur (Fur and Masali), have been consistently attacked by Arab militias (Janjaweed), enlisted by the Arab-ruled Sudanese government to burn villages and homes, massacre civilians and children, torture inhabitants, and rape both women and girls in an effort to “ethnically cleanse” Sudan of its ethnic population.

    Since this time 2003, up to 200,000 people are estimated to have died in Darfur, and up to 2 million people have been driven from their homes.Thousands of civilians in the Darfur region have been killed or “disappeared” (kidnapped or stolen), millions have fled to refugee and internally displaced persons camps, land and villages have been ruined, all sources of supplies, food and water have been pillaged or destroyed, and women and children have been systematically raped or enslaved by government militias.
    Most of the refugees and displaced persons from Darfur have lost whatever livestock or belongings they may have had before the government air strikes and the mass looting of the government-backed Janjaweed. Many have not survived the hundreds of miles it takes to reach a refugee or displaced persons camp.
    The UN has declared this to be genocide of a people.
    Yet how much news does it warrant?
    This is muslim on muslim murder is it any less murder. This is the total eradication of millions of people .
    Is anyone burning the Sudanese flag in the streets of London?
    Is anyone saying the air strikes by the Sudanese Government on Mud huts are disproportionate?

    No they are not.

  41. another view Avatar
    another view

    ru4real

    do you really think that the Palestinian supporters on this blog care about the facts and realities about which you speak?

  42. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ ru4real……

    Do YOU ??

    @ another view…….

    Do YOU??

    Does any of the Israeli supporters on this blog care either??

  43. another view Avatar
    another view

    Technician
    It seems that you have a brain with the dimensions of an abyss- one deep empty hole

  44. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ another view….

    It is sometimes hard to answer your own questions …….isn’t it??

    Your insults does nothing but to highlight your own self centered mentality.

    The thread started IS about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict.
    Therefore it is only obvious that most, if not all the comments would be based on the topic.

    I am sure that most right thinking people are concerned with all conflicts going on around the world, as it affects us all HUMAN beings.

    Most commenters here are just following the subject of the thread.
    Why dont you, if it is burning your soul so much, submit an article on Dafur to BU and start a thread, rather than trying to distract from the original one started by Bush Tea…….no one is stopping you.

    I await you insults.

  45. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    It seems that you have a brain with the dimensions of an abyss- one deep empty hole…

    Now that is rich!!!

    One thing I must give you credit for though……..you made me laugh ……hard.
    Did you put those words together all by yourself??

    RLMAO!!!

  46. David Avatar
    David

    The shape of debate on this particular blog is analogous to the actual Israel/Palestine conflict.

  47. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    David,

    On the contrary there is one significant difference from some of the contributors

    Some of us are not referring to ancient bronze age / middle age texts (claiming them to written by supernatural forces ) for guidance.

  48. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Well, we have a ceasefire. Note well that Israeli elections are due in 3 weeks.
    Great timing.
    As to the effect of the war, I quote a BBC report –
    ————————————————–
    “Polls quoted by Haaretz newspaper show Likud, on the eve of the military campaign, was set to win 32 seats in the 120-member Knesset, with Kadima on 30. Now they suggest Likud would be on 30, with Kadima down to 25.
    ————————————————

    So the intended ‘plan’ seems to have worked. Now we only need to await the UNINTENDED consequences…..

  49. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ To Bush Tea…..

    IMHO……this conflict had nothing to do with stopping rockets from Gaza.
    We have a cease fire…yes. after 3 weeks of pounding, Hamas still has the ability to fire 30 rockets per day at Israel, yet they say, they have achieved their objectives.
    Their only objective seemed to be strictly political.
    The offensive started before Bush left because they knew thew could definitely depend on his support, Obama would have been a risk.
    Now this cease fire comes just before elections.
    Israel uses the same tactics that the Bush and Blair administrations have perfected over the years.
    Instill enough fear in the citizens and they will bend to all of your demands without question.

  50. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @Technician
    No question that the tactical intent appears to have been strictly political. There was no increased military threat. A six-month cease fire had only just ended (where the Hamas continued to be blockaded contrary to the terms of the ceasefire). Any military analysis would have gone for a continued or expanded ceasefire.

    On the other hand, many Israeli politicians were under suspicion or actual charges of corruption.
    Olmert, resigning after such corruption charges, and still smarting from the embarrassment of his adventure into Lebanon also saw the war as a way of ‘saving his legacy’
    The new woman Livni may not be a thief – but from my analysis she is a moron….

    The war was designed to redirect Israeli public opinion from corruption and incompetence to ‘terror’ and survival. Polls show that it has done that.
    So what if Gaza is destroyed and 1000s die?..they are only Palestinians…
    But spiritual laws are intractable- you always reap exactly what you sow…

    What Gods people what?

    If indeed there ARE God’s people then the deserve tenfold the punishment for such behaviour as ordinary Gentiles.

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