Submitted by Amit Uttamchandani
There have been at least 18 murders for the year so far. The data presented below covers January to July 2022. The steps involved in this analysis are similar to my 2020 analysis.
Read more @caribbeansignal.com
Barbados Murder Statistics January to July 2022
Source: Nation
Source: Nation
Massive Inter-Island Drug Bust Made in Barbados
https://starcomnetwork.net/blog/2022/08/07/massive-inter-island-drug-bust-made-in-barbados/
Interesting story at 4:02 a.m.
I am not lawyer and in many items I just go with my gut feelings. Most of these islands need to examine and call for changes to the rule for extradition of their citizens to the US.
Mendicancy cannot give rise to suitable international relationships.
That 18 are murdered so far still seems in keeping with the average annual number – about 30.
Maybe, the murder statisticians could explain why Belize, a Caricom country, with dominant English characteristics and a population of 400K, similar to Barbados, but 35 times the landmass, has 360 murders per year, pre-covid.
Are we trying to compete with Belize? Certainly, the general level of violence, all kinds of violence, including within political speech, far outpaces Barbados. Certainly, Jamaica and T&T are fierce competitors of Belize as well.
@Pacha
In the 20s now. With Covid protocols removed and high drug hauls and ammunition capture criminal activity and all that goes with it will ramp up.
David
Hawkesworth was murdered. Has that case been solved? What were the general circumstances of that murder?
Good questions Pacha, there speculation which the blogmaster will try to avoid.
Inquiring minds want to know what is the status of the cases of the two others who were charged with Herbert.
David
Yes, could imagine. This writer is not totally ignorant of the range of possible scenarios.
Separately, what about the drug runner Charles Herbert? Has his case been kicked into the tall grass? Are the Americans too seeking his extradition? Or, as if the local Teflon Don, has innocence been asserted?
@Pacha
Our comments crossed. Is the outstanding about Herbert or the other two.
On the lighter side … when boys were boys and engaged in past times that did not involve guns!!
Inseparable from the prior blog on crime and drugs.
Can Dodds be shut and save money? If murderers out on bail, no point keeping it open.
The fellow on bail for murder get shot, just like Hawkesworth?
Any loss to the community?
@Crusoe
From media reports they have been charged. There is the presumption of innocence?
According to the COP bail conditions are not being properly monitored.
@ David
On October 14, 2016 Philip Mark Anthony Griffith of Butlers Avenue, Spooners Hill, St Michael, was formally charged with the murder of Christopher Hawkesworth.
Thanks Artax.
David
Herbert?
@Pacha
Maybe Artax can correct but wasn’t Herbert’s case dropped?
@David
“https://barbados.loopnews.com/content/watch-drug-charges-dropped-against-former-goddard-enterprises-chair”
In a small land where drugs and guns have existed as long as sliced bread, and where the bigger ups are NEVER held to account and where the lower downs become more desperate and uncaring about life the inevitable will happen.
That 24M haul that the media CHOSE not to report on is a classic example. That amount had to be stored somewhere, with the knowledge of others and a reasonable belief that inter island shipment was possible
I guess we will NEVER find out who those other waiting and ready players are.
Young unemployed men aren’t as foolish as we think. Blatant hypocrisy breeds unbridled apathy.
Just observing
@ David
Remember, on June 16, 2018, the DPP made a determination that all drug charges against Charles Herbert, in particular, should be dropped on the grounds of a lack of evidence.
I’m surprised you did not recall the robust discussion that was held in this forum between PLT and a few other contributors as a result.
@Artax
The blogmaster recalled but it is useful for some like yourself to clarify these matters.
@Artax
One is left to speculate the different considerations used to separate the defenses of the three?
@ David
Since Hawksworth was mentioned, any thoughts on the US$75M law suit?
@Artax
In these kinds of matters there is so much happening behind the scenes. Prima facie is would seem there is a case to be met by US authorities given the abruptness matters were dropped.
@ David
Seems so.
The two other guys were supposed to reappear in Court, but I haven’t seen or heard of anything relating to them or the status of their case.
I find the local media would present a news item only during its ‘infancy,’ and there aren’t any further updates as it grows to ‘maturity.’
@Artax
As you know the non white person charged was known to the court but this blogmaster is unable to connect the dots why the other person was not able to piggyback on Herbert’s defense for dropping the charges.
@David
I believe a vessel’s captain and crew are always responsible for cargo on board. Passengers are not, unless there is specific evidence connecting them to the cargo.
Hence the dots which separate.
@plt suggested the ‘trial’ (of the other 2) would bring clarity.
It has since been suggested, the ‘trial’ will never happen.
My prodding as to why, yielded natta.
@NO
Thanks for the clarification.
“This intelligence was further developed and on August 2nd Barbados law enforcement breached the “stash house” in Barbados where they found and seized 481kilogrammes of marijuana with a street value of TT $72,063,420.”
Since Hawksworth was mentioned, any thoughts on the US$75M law suit?
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DON’T KNOW WHY THE EXTRADITION WAS DROPPED.
I HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN TO THE HOUSES/RESIDENCE OF ALL THREE AT LEAST ONCE CHRIS WHEN ALIVE IN ST JAMES, SCANTLEBURY IN ST PHILIP AND GASKIN IN ST MICHAEL AT THE TIME AND HELD CONVERSATIONS.
ALL THREE WERE INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE FROM GUYANA WITH .GASKIN’S WIFE WHEN IN BARBADOS WAS A SMALL TRADER WHO HAS SINCE MOVED BACK TO GUYANA IN GEORGETOWN BEING A GUYANESE ALSO INVOLVED IN THE COCAINE TRADE.
THEY ARE ALL GUILTY OF THE CHARGE BUT MANAGED TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS.
“I guess we will NEVER find out who those other waiting and ready players are.
Young unemployed men aren’t as foolish as we think. Blatant hypocrisy breeds unbridled apathy.”
all the information is out there…just not distilled in certain places because they still believe they can keep it secret and continue with business as usual, undisturbed and free from accountability…….but that case, now it’s cocaine, the next minute marijuana…. was the straw that broke the camel’s back finally…
“Hawkesworth was murdered. Has that case been solved? What were the general circumstances of that murder?”
ah Pacha…the true story behind all of it would truly frighten you…..but make no mistake they overplayed and someone will pay…..they only believe they won’t. ………watch that lawsuit closely…..the less said the better…but don’t blink..
“DON’T KNOW WHY THE EXTRADITION WAS DROPPED.”
it was a set up….a SET UP…..a SET UP…..the two young men were completely innocent…and were never involved in any drug trade..that could be found…all of this information was already on BU…
one was the generational owner of the 75? acres of land where Arawak Cement is located and Fustic Plantation….and also the owner of a HUGE BANK ACCOUNT…all legit…..all DISAPPEARED, SYSTEMIC THEFT….A SET UP THAT WENT REALLY, REALLY BAD….watch the case…
DavidAugust 7, 2022 10:51 AM
@Artax
As you know the non white person charged was known to the court but this blogmaster is unable to connect the dots why the other person was not able to piggyback on Herbert’s defense for dropping the charges.
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You mean the captain of the schooner?
@John
Yes.
And no…the US had no hand in any of that like they tried to pin Hawkesworth murder on them., but they are the ones being sued……because….
“Sean Gaskin, John Wayne Scantlebury and the estate of deceased Frederick Christopher Hawkesworth”
Not clear what happened between the of the crime (2004) and 2011. However, being reminded in 2011 would have suggested to the general public that the police/US had solid evidence on the three.
To have all charges ‘dismissed in 2014 after the US government informed local authorities that it was no longer interested in prosecuting the men’ (to me) seem like a miscarriage of justice.
They can employ these sane unfair tactics against any citizen.
I do not know (and I do not care) if these men are saints and villains but they deserve a day in the US courts and the resulting award for false imprisonment.
“DON’T KNOW WHY THE EXTRADITION WAS DROPPED.”
it was a set up….a SET UP…..a SET UP…..the two young men were completely innocent…and were never involved in any drug trade..that could be found…all of this information was already on BU…
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MY FRIEND ON THIS ONE YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOT AIR.
I KNEW ALL 3 PERSONALLY INCLUDING VISITING HOMES AND HAVING CONVERSATIONS.
YOU DON’T KNOW THESE INDIVIDUALS ON A FACE TO FACE LEVEL SO DON’T BRING THE NAKED DEPARTURE BULLSHIT.
LAST TIME I MET SCANTLEBURY AFTER HIM BEING RELEASED FROM PRISON WAS TRYING TO BRING IN GREEN HOUSES IN CONTAINER TO THE 2 X 3 ISLAND AND USING THIS METHOD TO IMPORT DRUGS FROM GUYANA.
NOT SURE IF SCANTLEBURY GOT OFF THE GROUND AS I MET HIM ONLY THAT ONE TIME UNEXPECTABLY IN THE TOWN AREA IN PASSING AND HE SHARED THE INFO WITH ME ON HIS OWN INITITAVE.
Typo Sunday
time of the crime
Reminded=remanded
Sane=same
“MY FRIEND ON THIS ONE YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT AND HOT AIR.”
you do know there was an investigation regarding that…….that is why, one of the reasons anyway why THE CASE WAS DROPPED…
UNLESS YOU HAVE ANOTHER REASON WHY….please share…
And no…the US had no hand in any of that like they tried to pin Hawkesworth murder on them., but they are the ones being sued……because….
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WHO IS THEM THAT THEY TRIED TO PIN?
YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN’T READ PROPERLY AS ANOTHER MAN A CLOSE ASSOCIATE OF CHRIS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE WAS CHARGE WITH THE MURDER LOCALLY.
SO WHO IS THEM?
“YOU DON’T KNOW THESE INDIVIDUALS ON A FACE TO FACE LEVEL”
i actually knew one for many, many years, the island is so small, and he said outright to anyone who would listen that those two dudes were never involved with him and any drugs and i tend to believe him because he was upfront with everyone about his own involvement….
.so again, if you have another reason why the case was dropped, please share…
I do not know (and I do not care) if these men are saints and villains but they deserve a day in the US courts and the resulting award for false imprisonment.
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I AGREE THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SUEIN US COURT AND HAVE THEIR DAY IN COURT.
HOWEVER TO ACT INNOCENT WHEN I KNOW THAT THEY WERE NOT IS A LONG STRETCH.
THEY GOT LUCKY UNLIKE ALEX TASKER IN THE DONVILLE INNIS EXTRADITION CASE.
“YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN’T READ PROPERLY AS ANOTHER MAN A CLOSE ASSOCIATE OF CHRIS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE WAS CHARGE WITH THE MURDER LOCALLY.
SO WHO IS THEM?”
why do yall like to tell people what they know and don’t know……this is public information….but there is so much more that you yourself have not posted yet…i will wait for you to post it….it’s not just cut and dried….no it’s not, and yes, they started rumors that US was responsible for the murder DESPITE KNOWING other things that went on in that killing…………
This reinforces my objection to extradition of non-US citizens to the US for any kind of crime.
Jack Warner should remain in Trinidad.
Tasker should stay where he is.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2022/01/18/peace-corps-worker-killed-woman-africa-reaction-rabia-issa/9115232002/
A case of extradition is based on if treaties exist between the countries.
Another point to posit- a law suit is brought if the proposers believe there is a strong case in law. It often has nothing to do with if the parties are innocent or guilty:
Guess what, your opinions mean squat…in the grand scheme of things if as it was found these men were innocent, and it was all a MONSTROUS SET-UP….that is a well known stock-in-trade by thieving criminal…….and there is ACTUALLY PROOF available….that i saw with my own two eyes..
so if you think you can pin a drug crime on them, go right ahead and see how far you get…
as the man said he had NO DEALINGS WITH THESE MEN concerning drugs…i will go with what he said and he had no reason at all to lie…..given all that has since unfolded.
It’s a rasssoul amazing how all kinds of interpretations of law can be arrived at once a fucking bacra White man like Charles Herbert’s name is called.
These same fucking genuflections are never raised in relationship to Mr. Hawkesworth or anybody of his ilk.
We are supposed to believe that three men are to be on a vessel with hundreds of pounds of drugs and somehow one particular man knowns not of the cargo. This defies common sense, law and precedent. How many people are spending time in jail because they where foolish enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? In every other case this writer knows rasssoul Charles Herbert should have been in jail. And he’s not known to be an asshole.
What has been discerned from all of this long extradition proceedings is the US was USED to terrorize and sequester all three men, but they were never meant to actually be extradited…..only to keep them in that state of flux while TIEFING WAS ONGOING…which was successful…but had the US won that case they could have gotten life in prison, although INNOCENT IN THAT INSTANCE…
but shit went sideways….as these evil crimes sometimes do….and evating come out…because they did not get to tie up their loose ends….
“A case of extradition is based on if treaties exist between the countries.”
Will not draw out the point.
Allow me to express my ignorance about the law, extradition and diplomatic, but the one thing I know is that the US is a law into themselves.
Example 2.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/12/world/europe/harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-extradition.html
“Jack Warner should remain in Trinidad.”
well the other 2 dudes Blatter and the other one recently won their appeals so don’t see why Jack should go anywhere but not too familiar with his whole case….and if it was part of theirs…
I agree that people who are INNOCENT should not have to be subjected to that type of terror..
..but if it’s politicians whom we know ARE ALL GUILTY of something evil, criminal and tiefing…….by ALL MEANS NECESSARY…
The ‘set-up’ theory was raised on BU previously and IMMEDIATELY DISMISSED as NONSENSE.
Based on certain intelligence, it is a known fact Hawkesworth, Scantlebury and Gaskin were involved in the ‘drug trade.’
And, although he could be considered far above the scale of other known individuals, such as Junior Grant and ‘Iston Bull,’ Hawkesworth remained ‘low-keyed’ in the way he ‘conducted business.’
@Artax
This is the talk. They were in the middle of the hierarchy.
Mia has a red bag
Wura has a green bag
ac has a black bag with a lock and a key (it is full of cricket balls)
“YOU DON’T KNOW THESE INDIVIDUALS ON A FACE TO FACE LEVEL”
i actually knew one for many, many years, the island is so small, and he said outright to anyone who would listen that those two dudes were never involved with him and any drugs and i tend to believe him because he was upfront with everyone about his own involvement….
.so again, if you have another reason why the case was dropped, please share…
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I NOW KNOW YOU LIVE IN A DISHONEST WORLD AND DON’T KNOW WHEN TO BACK DOWN IN YOUR IGNORANCE.
I MET HAWKESWORTH THROUGH A DENTIST FRIEND, WHO THEN INTRODUCE ME AT TWO DIFFERENT OCCASSIONS FIRST GASKIN AND LATER SCANTLEBURY.
ALL THREE INDIVIDUALLY SHARED THEIR CONTACT NUMBERS AND INVITED ME TO VISIT THEIR HOMES.
SCANTLEBURY WAS THE LAST ONE RESIDENCE I VISITED.
I HAVE HEARD FROM EACH OF THESE INDIVIDUALS MOUTHS OF THEIR JOINT INVOLVEMENT IN THE DRUG TRADE ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND ESPECIALLY ORGINATING AT THAT TIME FROM GUYANA TO THE 2 X 3 ISLAND.
HOWEVER I WILL NOT ARGUE WITH YOU AS YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY.
I DON’T COME ON BU BLOWING SMOKE OR NAMING PEOPLE WILLY NILLY.
CHARLES HERBERT WAS A BIG PLAYER IN THE DRUG INDUSRTY LOCALLY AND I PLAYED GOLF WITH HIM SEVERAL TIMES AND IT WAS AN OPEN SECRET AMONG GOLFERS.
I FIRST MET CHARLES HERBERT THROUGH A LOCAL BANKER WHO WAS KNOWN TO MIX COCAINE IN BAJAN HOTSAUCE AND SHIPPING TO CANADA TO A SINCE DEPORTED BAJAN DRUG DEALER IN THE DEACONS AREA AND THEN LATER TRAVELING TO CANADA AND BREAKING BACK DOWN THE COCAINE FROM THE HOTSAUCE IN ITS PURITY.
I USE TO LIVE LIKE THE TOP 1 TO 2 PERCENT IN THE CARIBBEAN WHILST ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND SO TRUST ME WHEN I SAY I KNOW THE MAJOR PLAYERS AT THAT TIME INCLUDING INDIANS, WHITES, BLACKS AND SENIOR POLICE COMPLICITLY INVOLVED TURNING A BLIND EYE WHILST LINING THEIR POCKETS.
YOU MAY HAVE THE LAST WORD.
“I MET HAWKESWORTH THROUGH A DENTIST FRIEND, WHO THEN INTRODUCE ME AT TWO DIFFERENT OCCASSIONS FIRST GASKIN AND LATER SCANTLEBURY.
ALL THREE INDIVIDUALLY SHARED THEIR CONTACT NUMBERS AND INVITED ME TO VISIT THEIR HOMES.”
so you must be involved in the drugs trade too…
if there was an investigation from the US side and they could not find anything to pin on these 2 men IN THIS CASE…… who are you to say because you met them and they talked about drugs with YOU that they are guilty in this instance when the CASE WAS DROPPED…
and …..why would they speak of drugs with a perfect stranger if you are not somehow involved too……….
talking about credibility……YOU still cannot tell me WHY THE CASE WAS DROPPED…
who goes around exchanging numbers with at least ONE known drug trafficker anyway…
i sure won’t…if am not involved..
“It’s a rasssoul amazing how all kinds of interpretations of law can be arrived at once a fucking bacra White man like Charles Herbert’s name is called.”
Amazed, amused, surprised or in a state of wonder is how I often find myself. CH was given a clean bill of health (by some here) before the boat ‘Ecstacy’ fully docked. Virtue signaling, testimonials were provided without being asked for
If CH had arrived in the harbor as the sole occupant on a overloaded dinghy and a big lighted spliff clenched in his teeth, he would have still walked away.
The bottomline is that no one here can categorically speak to what happened onboard that boat. What we can question is the lack of transparency in the decision by the DPP to drop the charges against Herbert. Beer in mind the DPP did nothing wrong, this is the discretion that is attached to the office.
Theo…now ya getting the picture…
people don’t realize that it’s all IN THE OPTICS..
the place is choc-a-bloc with drug traffickers who pretend they are not…..because they rub shoulders with politicians…who are also in the business of pretending…
and only the youngsters on the blocks get penalized and jailed…
or the innocent get SET UP when there is SOMETHING TO TIEF…..like in THIS CASE…
And, although he could be considered far above the scale of other known individuals, such as Junior Grant and ‘Iston Bull,’ Hawkesworth remained ‘low-keyed’ in the way he ‘conducted business.’
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BOTH FROM THE TOWN AREA WITH A LOT OF POLICE PROTECTION WHICH IS WHY THEY BOTH GREW BIG AND HAD NO FEAR.
so you must be involved in the drugs trade too…
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YOU ARE THE TYPICAL LOWLIFE.
NEXT I COULD HAVE BEEN A MURDERER OR RAPIST ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND.
THE 2 X 3 ISLAND IS SMALL I RAN A REGIONAL COMPANY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS WHILST TEACHING PART TIME AT UWI FOR A SHORT TIME AND CAME ACROSS MANY INDIVIDUALS IN ALL SPHERE OF LIFE THROUGH MUTUAL PROFESSIONAL COLLEAGUES.
SOME WELL KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC IN BIG ‘LEGITIMATE’ BUSINESSES, BANKERS, LAWYERS, POLITICIANS, SERVICE PROFESSIONALS ETC WITH SOME ENGAGE IN ALL KIND OF ACTIVITIES.
NOW RUN OFF TO NAKED DEPARTURE WHERE YOU BELONG.
who goes around exchanging numbers with at least ONE known drug trafficker anyway…
i sure won’t…if am not involved..
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ASSHOLE WHEN I WAS INTRODUCED INITIALLY I WAS NOT TOLD ANY WAS INVOLVED WITH DRUGS, RAPE, MURDER ETC IT WAS THEY WERE MUTUAL FRIENDS KNOWN FROM SCANTLEBURY CASE LODGE SCHOOL AND HAWKESWORTH ANOTHER ASSOCIATE THE DENTIST BOTH KNEW FROM SCHOOL DAYS.
I WENT TO PRIMARY AND JUNIOR SCHOOL WITH THE DENTIST.
NOW CARRY YOUR ASS YOU SMALL MIBED MENTALITY WILL GET YOU NO WHERE.
FIRST LEARN TO ADMIT WHEN YOU ARE WRONG INSTEAD OF WAFFLING BULLSHIT AS FACT.
The more I read, the more certain things make sense.
In more ways than one.
One deep rabbit hole.
I got Mia on speed dial, but it doesn’t mean she sees poetry in ac contributions.
To be honest, Mia doesn’t tek my call but I still got she in speed dial. The old Whatsapp number that we did the vaccine and the Bill and Melinda Gates funding thing on does not work. But I got de new numba.
“PM Briceno has been quoted in the local media as saying that he got the link from Barbados Prime Minister Mia Mottley, who – after all – was just voted Time Magazine’s most influential person.”
YOUR SMALL MINDED MENTALITY
Some can talk chalk, but I am glad the Murcans watching and waiting.
Maybe Arthur should have signed the Shiprider.
now am the lowlife…..but you are character assassinating two men who were proven innocent ..the case could proceed NO FURTHER BECAUSE of genuine reasons….but you are still on and on that they talked to you about drugs so they are guilty…
you claimed you EXCHANGED PHONE NUMBERS WITH THEM….and they are DRUG TRAFFICKERS…a dentist put you on to Hawkesworth…story keeps getting crazier and crazier…Hawkesworth was only known for one thing….so what did you need him for….steupppss..
those are YOUR WORDS….despite me telling you that there is much more to that particular case, you just wanted to show us how much you know….which amounts to very little cause ya still can’t tell me why the case was dropped…you are the one with the very serious credibility issues..
so you know all the drug traffickers on the island including the police…..why have you not brought in outside agencies with all that knowledge ya got…..give them the information let them clean it up…as you seem to want to lock up two innocent men…..go one step further and lock up the guilty since ya know ALL OF THEM..
In response to some ‘saying’ the case involving Scantlebury, Gaskin and Hawkesworth was still ongoing……
…… I posted the Court document to BU, which indicated the case was actually discontinued and outlined the reasons why the US Justice Department made the decision.
“Some can talk chalk, but I am glad the Murcans watching and waiting.”
yep…if our favorite satans don’t take charge of this situation….dog eat the people’s dinner because the murders and all manner of crimes including the WHOLESALE ROBBERIES will only get worse,,,including that horrible Hawkesworth styled set up to rob estates and bank accounts…
am sure they also have to keep their eyes FASTENED on the RICO crowd in particular…they had a field day for DECADES….all across the diaspora…give negros a little island power, just a smidgen and THEY GONE WILD…
there is indeed a PART OF THE CASE….still ongoing, but has nothing to do with any drugs…
According to the Court opinion document I’ve seen:
“EDWARDS, Senior Circuit Judge: In 2004, Appellants, John Wayne Scantlebury (“Scantlebury”) and Sean Gaskin (“Gaskin”), who are residents of Barbados, along with another Barbadian resident – Frederick Christopher Hawkesworth (“Hawkesworth”) – and two Guyanese residents, were indicted by a grand jury in Washington, D.C., for conspiracy to traffic cocaine. Scantlebury, Gaskin, and Hawkesworth (who is now deceased) all challenged extradition to the United States. The disputes over extradition lasted for over nine years. Finally, in December 2013, the U.S. Government moved to dismiss the charges against Scantlebury, Gaskin, and Hawkesworth without prejudice,citing “the age of the case, government resources,and other factual and legal issues which INDICATE the case is NO LONGER VIABLE.” Joint Appendix (“J.A.”) 41. The District Court granted the Government’s motion to dismiss on January 9, 2014.” [Page 1]
@Artax
You may agree there had to be something fanning the matter in the us system that it would have been in abeyance for so long a time?
I don’t know what is so hard about that to understand…..
“1. nonviable – not capable of living or developing successfully dead – no longer having or seeming to have or expecting to have life;
“the U.S. Government moved to dismiss the charges against Scantlebury, Gaskin, and Hawkesworth without prejudice,”
this is the ongoing issue….i don’t plan to keep posting on it, so figure out the definition on ya own…or ask the two survivors why the it’s still ongoing, .but there is hope in that particular matter since it’s now safe to proceed with a lawsuit…
and it would be nice if yall posted the difference between without prejudice and with prejudice to educate the blog.
you claimed you EXCHANGED PHONE NUMBERS WITH THEM….and they are DRUG TRAFFICKERS…a dentist put you on to Hawkesworth…story keeps getting crazier and crazier…Hawkesworth was only known for one thing….so what did you need him for….steupppss..
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WILLIAM SKINNER
YOU NEED TO SAVE YOUR NAKED DEPARTURE FRIEND WHO CONTINUALLY LIKE TO DWELL IN HER IGNORANCE AND DISHONESTY.
NO WONDER NO ONE ON BU BLOG TAKES YOUR WEBSITE WITH ANY CREDENCE.
GO SNUGGLE UP TO THE WHITE MAN HUSBAND WITH YOUR TWISTED MIND ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT AFRICANS WHAT A SICK SELL OUT INDIVIDUAL.
I AM ALSO WHATEVR YOU MAKE ME OUT TO BE MRS BU RESIDENT EXPERT DRUG DEALER, MURDERER, RAPIST ETC.
HOWEVER IN THIS CASE I AM NOT THE ONE WHO IS A LIAR WHETHER THE STORY GETS DEEPER OR NOT..
THE 2 MEN ALREADY MADE THEIR BED ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND AND LAID IT IT NO MATTER WHATEVER YOU THE IDIOT HAS TO SAY ABOUT..
I WATCHED YOU GO ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT A MADE UP POLITICIAN WHO RAN FOR A SEAT ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
YET YOU INSISTED AND PERSISTED IN YOUR IGNORNACE AS IN THIS CASE YOUR USUAL PATTERN OF STUPIDITY AND PIG HEADNESS.
GTFOH
“there is indeed a PART OF THE CASE….still ongoing, but has nothing to do with any drugs…”
~~~~~~~~~~
The only OTHER CASE I have read about, involving Scantlebury, apart from the extradition or drug cases, was an APPEAL to the Court to have the charges DISMISSED “WITH PREJUDICE.”
Recall, the charges were dismissed “WITHOUT PREJUDICE,” which simply means the original charges can be RE-FILED or NEW CHARGES filed, based on the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES……. at some future point in time.
“Appellants argue that prosecutors in the United States knew for years, well before they moved to dismiss the charges, that the cases had “cratered” and that there was no probable cause to support the indictments. Appellants therefore assert that the District Court should have dismissed the indictments with prejudice. On appeal, Appellants seek a remand to the District Court with instructions to DIMISS the charges WITH PREJUDICE. The Government in turn contends that this court has no basis upon which to entertain this appeal. We agree with the Government.” [Page 2].
This case was argued on February 7, 2019 and a DECISION was made on April 16, 2019.
Perhaps you may want to present details of the case you’re referring to.
Pacha…am sure you now got the drift of what went on over 20 years ago and all the ongoing fallout from that….
.with the other matter chickens are home and ROOSTING……
I don’t have to present shit…we discussed this on BU years ago, with information from the defendant’s lawyer posted to the blog, i posted it myself…….it’s in the archives…i said AM DONE POSTING ABOUT THIS…if you are trying to find someone to show up because you don’t understand what without prejudice means….find someone else…
am sure Pacha understands and quite a few others why there is still an ongoing matter regarding the word without prejudice…..and ya don’t need legal knowledge for any of that…it’s basic..
“this is the ongoing issue….i don’t plan to keep posting on it, so figure out the definition on ya own…”
~~~~~~~~~~
You NEVER posted on it.
I’ll refer you to two contributions you posted to the ‘Donville Inniss Guilty As Charged” thread.
WURA-War-on-U January 21, 2020 6:14 AM #: “Simple….there are current updates for the Hawkesworth, Scantlebury and Gaskin extradition case, as current as last year which cannot yet be posted to the blog. Information not available to the public yet, it is still ongoing.”
WURA-War-on-U January 21, 2020 6:19 AM #: “Hawkesworth, Scantlebury, Gaskin extradition case, as current as LAST YEAR which cannot yet be posted to the blog.”
Notice you ONLY MENTIONED the “EXTRADITION CASE”…… and DID NOT MAKE ANY REFERENCE to the appeal case relative to the dismissal of the charges “WITH PREJUDICE.”
A decision on that case was made on April 16, 2019…….
…… ONE (1) YEAR and EIGHT (8) MONTHS AFTER you ‘said,’ “Information not available to the public yet, it is still ongoing.”
too bad if you can’t find it….but it was the SAME DAY…i pointedly said that they set up the DEA….so look again or just google the difference between without prejudice and with prejudice and see how the former could present a serious future problem…
…without being spoonfed…….
as i said am sure numerous people on the blog already figured it out…..ya on ya own..i don’t owe you anything…
CHARLES HERBERT WAS A BIG PLAYER IN THE DRUG INDUSRTY LOCALLY AND I PLAYED GOLF WITH HIM SEVERAL TIMES AND IT WAS AN OPEN SECRET AMONG GOLFERS.
@Baje
You sure you have the right Charles?
I don’t know the man,though I have heard him associated with rugby, hiking, woodworking and growing vegetables. And actuarial pursuits.
But I have played much golf. And while I don’t spend that much time in Bim, I generally know of the ‘golf set’. So I asked two if CH play, and they tell me no. I have never seen him at any golf course, nor heard his name called by those who play.
I think you may have the wrong person.
African Online Publishing Copyright ⓒ 2022. All Rights Reserved August 7, 2022 2:58 PM
RE: “I don’t have to present shit…we discussed this on BU years ago, with information from the defendant’s lawyer posted to the blog, i posted it myself…….it’s in the archives…”
NO, YOU DID NOT post any such information to the blog!!!!!
If you HAD, you would’ve KNOWN the case was ARGUED on February 7, 2019 and a DECISION was MADE on April 16, 2019.
And, as such, you WOULDN’T have ‘said,’ “this is the ONGOING ISSUE …”
RE: “i said AM DONE POSTING ABOUT THIS…if you are trying to find someone to show up because you don’t understand what without prejudice means….find someone else…”
‘Your ignorance hath no boundaries.’
How could ‘say’ I “DON’T ’t UNDERSTAND what without prejudice means”……
…… when, in my August 7, 2022 2:36 PM contribution, I wrote:
“Recall, the charges were dismissed “WITHOUT PREJUDICE,” which SIMPLY MEANS the original charges can be RE-FILED or NEW CHARGES filed, based on the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES……. at some future point in time.”
Your problem is, rather be MATURE enough to ADMIT when you’re WRONG….. and move on….
…… you prefer to ‘weave a tangled web in your efforts to deceive,’ followed by an onslaught of insults and abuse.
An OBVIOUS SIGN of IMMATURITY.
Northern…i don’t know if you remember this dude with a private jet that i posted to BU a soil technician from US who was bragging and boasting how he was going to control the marijuana industry on the island and put the people to work on plantations….well would you know it the first plantation he went to trailed by cameras is CHs…they took down all the videos since then and we never heard about the private jet flying dude again….
but i said that to say this….ya don’t just wake up one morning AFTER HAVING TIES TO A HUGE SHIPMENT…boatload of marijuana or was it cocaine…claiming innocence and escaping a jail remand and decide the first thing ya doing a year later is having ya farm(s) used to grow marijuana especially since IT STILL IS NOT LEGAL….because they refuse to legalize it but collecting money for all types of licenses….
but people who worked on those farms swear….that they have always known about involvement….one even claimed they got their first gun……from that area….
still don’t owe you shit..
So Northern…i am not saying that BAJE may not have the wrong person…..but where there is smoke…there gotta be fire…
Today all.over social.media platforms
The hot topic are the Commonwealth games 2022
The two.names most mentioned in grand style and glorious manner are Sada Williams and Johnathan Jones and respectfullyNathan Crawford -Willis
One would think that BU would have in earnest posted a blog acknowledging these achievers whose hard work and dedication place the name of Barbados in positive territory
No to be David rather wasted time responding with frustration and fury at bloggers whose comments he did not like
“….so look again or just google the difference between without prejudice and with prejudice and see how the former could present a serious future problem…”
~~~~~~~~~~
That was not YOUR ORIGINAL ARGUMENT.
You CONVENIENTLY SWITCHED the discussion FROM the extradition and drug cases……
……to ‘talk’ about the appeal case, ONLY AFTER I presented the details.
And, although I GAVE a SIMPLE DEFINITION of ‘without prejudice,’ in my 2:36 PM contribution……
…… you’re still CONTINUING to DISHONESTLY ARGUE I don’t understand the meaning of the term.
Only a DESPICABLE individual would STOOP to SUCH LEVELS of DISHONESTY, in an attempt to be dominant.
Besides…i believe Pacha about that arrogant, uppity prick who did not want Afrikan people working at Mutual and did everything using his racist power to stop it….always working overtime to keep Afrikan people underfoot…been hearing him spoken of for YEARS…..those types are the biggest criminals…and can never be trusted..
“I don’t owe you shit” either.
However, I will RESPOND, while PRESENTING the FACTS, ANY and EVERY TIME you ATTEMPT to MISLEAD the forum by MANIPULATING the TRUTH.
If ya understood the meaning of the term….and was genuine YOU WOULD SHARE IT WITH OTHER BLOGGERS so they TOO could understand the difference and why the former cannot be accepted………..which makes you, not me, DISHONEST
….i would have long time ago, a year or so ago, but i have stopped doing certain things because am busy…clicking from one page to another is one thing….but i now manage my time…..don’t need to try to be on top…i already am on top of what is mine…….don’t need to prove anything..or waste time and energy trying to show up anyone..
because…i asked you to present something, which i never did……i don’t need you to present or show me anything or prove anything…..ya always on shit…i do my own research and never ask anyone stupid questions..
so long ago you could have broken down the difference between the two on the blog, but you prefer keep the info to yaself and think ya doing something useful…no you are not..
Now let’s find a solution to building a state of the Art Nationsl stadium by way of increasing taxes on these high class degenerates whose millions goes into destroying society and the lives of innocent people
Barbadian athletes over the years have delivered on the international stage
There is yet to find a Barbados govt willing to delivered a National state of the art stadium for these young patriots who have gave or giving all that they have going above and beyond to make the country proud T International sporting games
Angela…it’s a TRADITION….if there is no BRIBERY or STEAL in it….ya shit outta luck…lol
I does only come here to read ac.
I see it. I love it.
Barbados Games
I’m telling you it is a shame
Our medal winners don’t have names
Men doing crime for dastardly crimes
Grabbing all of BU headlines
Not a mention of Sada Williams
Why, cause she ain’t a villain
Here we are ignoring what is positive
And having delight in a negative
All this talk about drugs and CH
Have my poor head starting to ache
What Sada has to do to get a little attention
Well deserved after her fantastic run
Strip naked or race with a gun?
ac, I think you lost it near the end.
But without a doubt…you are the greatest….
😃
I see BT and a few others hopping on the ac bandwagon.
Bandwagon full or selecting membership.
Hants and NO on the list.
We may give ‘The A guy’ an invite
😃
“I does only come here to read ac.”
i might have to start doing that…i got my list of names already, AC will definitely be there, she makes sense….sick and tired of the dishonest confusion makers who have nothing in the way of offerings to stimulate or inspire..
I’m a little confused. So much confusion and mud throwing on BU. In my opinion African Online Publishing Copyright ⓒ 2022. All Rights Reserved appears to be more in the loop of what’s going on in Barbados then the entire BU family. Whilst the media delights in suppressing the news she takes a delight in breaking the news. We too love the night time in Barbados where all types of demonic activities occur. Is it any surprise the island is in such a state. Waru, in many people’s eyes is more demonic than the notorious C. H. How bizarre!
@Baje
You sure you have the right Charles?
I don’t know the man,though I have heard him associated with rugby, hiking, woodworking and growing vegetables. And actuarial pursuits.
But I have played much golf. And while I don’t spend that much time in Bim, I generally know of the ‘golf set’. So I asked two if CH play, and they tell me no. I have never seen him at any golf course, nor heard his name called by those who play.
I think you may have the wrong person.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CONTACT THE BARBADOS GOLF ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT TO SEE IF CHARLES HERBERT HAS NOT PLAYED GOLF AT BARBADOS GOLF CLUB IN DURANTS CHRIST CHURCH.
Phone
Mobile Phone: (246) 836-9969
I STOPPED PLAYING GOLF AT LEAST 8 TO 9 YEARS AGO ON THE 2 X 3 ISLAND.
Please note the commenter known as ac continues to flout the blogmaster’s guidance and is now to be banished from posting. No feedback comments are necessary.
To those who continue to disregard please take note. The blogmaster prefers 5 good comments others can learn from than the rubbish sone of you insist on polluting the blog daily.
” All Rights Reserved appears to be more in the loop of what’s going on in Barbados then the entire BU family.”
let me give you the run down about them…
many times they KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON and KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES….because in their tiny minds they know something no one else knows…not that it would do them any good because they DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH the information anyway.., but they don’t care, as long as it’s choking their dumb asses, that’s all they care about…
then…even if they know and PARTICULARLY IF THEY DON’T they will jump out just to contradict you and try to demonize you …..then claim they knew all along and did not need you to tell them…
ah still waiting for them to tell me about Fabianism…from the time i tell them…they will claim i am not telling them anything they don’t already know…THEY ARE INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST…without the intellect..
now i know most people understand, after googling the difference between without prejudice and with prejudice and why the former is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE…but fools will continue to pretend that am the problem, even if it makes them look DISHONEST.. and it did….all their own doing……..when i HAVE KNOWN FOR A WHILE…that was the ongoing case i mentioned and they dug up the archives to find…because it’s a CASE seeking to change the designation…i said it had nothing to do with drugs and it didn’t..
how easy it would have been to inform the blog of the difference…even though i pointedly said that there is hope because they could not proceed with the lawsuit before because of that case, although i know of one that went ahead anyway…but that’s another story..
if you think these don’t know EXACTLY WHAT’S GOING ON…you are very wrong….but the dishonesty in the DNA got them attacking because they DON’T WANT YOU OR ME TO VOICE IT….keep it to yaself so they can pretend in their little Slave world……and if you say anything they take offense..
Yolanda Grant, Daniella Gomez or whoever you are…….
……for a woman (GIRL) your age, you are EXTREMELY IMMATURE and PETTY.
Your 3:44 PM and 3:38 PM contributions provide proof beyond any reasonable doubt.
You need to GROW UP.
You are nothing more than a big HARAM.
@Baje
Lol….so we are hoping the BGA pres is familiar with those who played a decade or more ago?
I made my inquiries and was told CH does not play golf.
Not that he may not have played once or twice, but not that many times, that you could have played “several times with him”.
I believe (memory) you made similar comments about the late, former DPP, whose first name was also Charles?
@WW&C
I recall the medicinal cannabis story with some ferner on the island.
To my memory Pacha’s primary beef is that CH was part of racist hiring/HR practices at BMLAS, as you pointed out. I never read any factual backup, and have no personal knowledge to say yeah or nay.
Cannabis has been grown in and amongst the cane for years. The $1000 question was always, who planted it?
@Baje
Lol….so we are hoping the BGA pres is familiar with those who played a decade or more ago?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
ANY BGA PRESIDENT CURRENT OR FORMER HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR MANY YEARS AND KNOWS LOCAL GOLFERS ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO PLAYED AT BARBADOS GOLF COURSE.
ALSO CHARLES HERBERT IS A WELL KNOWN INDIVIDUAL.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A 2 X 3 ISLAND WHERE GOLFERS DO NOT MEASURE IN LARGE NUMBERS LIKE OTHER SPORTS.
The blogmaster has his ears to the ground and is not aware Herbert is a golfer.
Anyway, enough of this- how is it relevant to the issue at hand except for challenging the credibility of commenters? Let us move on.
Not that he may not have played once or twice, but not that many times, that you could have played “several times with him”.
I believe (memory) you made similar comments about the late, former DPP, whose first name was also Charles?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
YOU MUST BE A WHITE MAN OR SMOKING POT.
THE FORMER DPP CHARLES LEACOCK NOW DECEASED PLAYED GOLF AT BARBADOS GOLF CLUB AND WAS KNOWN TO ZIP AROUND THE GOLF COURSE IN A CART VERY FREQUENTLY.
HIS WIFE BETTY JUNE RECENTLY RETIRED AND HIS SON DONALD LEACOCK PLAYED GOLF FOR THE 2 X 3 ISLAND AS A JUNIOR.
YOU MUST DO BETTER.
THE PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE TALKING TO MUST LIVE ON THE MOON.
@ Pacha
Don’t miss the point. These folks are going to protect the Charles Herberts forever. At the end they are just defending the status quo.
Mark my word, this is pure propaganda and pretty disguised political gymnastics these days.
Mark my word # 2: If the economy was firing on all cylinders , the contributions would be completely different but they are scrambling for anything to avoid the real socio- economic problems that confronting the country.
Don’t be fooled, these folks know exactly what they are doing.
Peace.
@ David
I addressed the following contribution to you.
~~~~~~~~~~
Artax January 20, 2020 3:38 PM
David BU
The information I provided Simple Simon reminded me about an opinion being persistently promoted in this forum re: the “Barbadian authorities set up the DEA to arrest Hawkesworth so they could steal his land and money.”
Information from the Court indicates otherwise.
BACKGROUND:
The U.S. Government began investigating Hawkesworth for cocaine trafficking in 2000. The Government suspected that Raphel Douglas (“Douglas”) and Terrence Sugrim (“Sugrim”) were supplying cocaine from Guyana to Hawkesworth. And Appellants were suspected of assisting Hawkesworth in an international drug trafficking operation that distributed cocaine in Barbados and transported cocaine from Barbados and Guyana to the United States.
As part of its investigation, the Government worked with an unnamed confidential informant. The informant allegedly spoke with Appellants and Hawkesworth on several occasions and made plans to help them transport cocaine to the United States.
In 2004, a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., returned a two-count indictment against Scantlebury, Gaskin, Hawkesworth, Douglas, and Sugrim. The first count alleged that all five defendants had conspired to distribute more than five kilograms of cocaine. The second count alleged that Hawkesworth and Douglas distributed 500 grams or more of cocaine. With respect to Appellants specifically, the indictment alleged that they “obtained false identification cards and documents in order to travel to the United States to facilitate the importation of cocaine from Barbados, Guyana and elsewhere into the United States.”
J.A. 35. The indictment stated that Hawkesworth was the leader of the organization, which had allegedly shipped 184 ilograms of cocaine from Guyana to JFK Airport in New York City. The indictment also alleged that Scantlebury and Gaskin met with the informant to discuss whether contacts were in place for a test shipment of cocaine and that the informant provided Scantlebury and Gaskin with fake identification cards.
In support of its requests for extradition from Barbados, the U.S. Government submitted affidavits written by a Senior Trial Attorney in the Criminal Division of the Department of
Justice (“Trial Attorney”), a Drug Enforcement Administration (“DEA”) special agent, and the confidential informant. The Trial Attorney’s affidavit stated that the evidence against the
defendants included the testimony of the confidential informant and of DEA agents, audio and video recordings of conversations, photographs, telephone records, passport records, airline records, and seized cocaine. The DEA special agent’s affidavit stated that 184 kilograms of cocaine, packed in a shipment of frozen seafood, was seized at JFK Airport on September 20, 2003, and that, later that day, the confidential informant met with Sugrim and Hawkesworth, who said that they had lost a load of 180 kilograms of cocaine that had been shipped to JFK. The DEA affidavit also noted that the confidential informant “was told that nobody was arrested.”
J.A. 132. In addition, the DEA affidavit noted that the confidential informant had worked with the DEA for approximately five years and had proven to be “completely reliable.” Id. at 129.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So, based on the above information, I’m finding it very difficult to believe the US government, Justice Department, DEA……… would allow themselves to be DECEIVED (or SET-UP) and forced into a situation where they lost valuable time and resources over a 19 year period, so that some Barbadians politicians could steal Hawkesworth’s land and money.
“Golf is a good walk spoiled.” Popularly attributed to Mark Twain, but it was first used in 1948. Twain died in 1910.
@ David
I prefer use information that can be easily verified or substantiated….. and is effectively disseminated by credible sources.
@Artax
We have some here that thrive on drama.
Wow!
@John
Never a good walk wasted.
Challenge is, how many actually WALK any longer? Many of these newer abominations they call ‘golf courses’ ban walking. There is $$ in renting power carts?
People get caught up with trees.
The bigger issue, obviously Hawkesworth knew too much, became a loose end and was removed by bigger fish.
Those bigger fish and the whole organisation are the issue.
Because those are the poison to Barbados.
That is where resources and thought should be focused.
But let us be honest, most Barbadians are well aware of who those are.
The question is, why are “authorities” unable to deal with it?
But when invites….
Dahduummmm!
@Crusue
There is a good reason why those who control the drug trade tend to be untouchables.
I see clear parallels with the Dudus Coke scenario.
Though Coke and the local equivalents are clearly no more than lieutenants.
Source: Nation
“There is a good reason why those who control the drug trade tend to be untouchables.”
In the case of Iran Contras who the CIA were working with in late 80s, drug smugglers were CIA assets under protection from prosecution by DEA. The Lockerbie bombing on Pan Am Flight 103 was alleged to have CIA drugs and two US Intelligence officers from the CIA and DIA Agents aboard who were about to spill the beans and raise their concerns to Washington DC. The bomb was alleged to be an CIA inside job using alleged CIA drug smuggling routes to ship heroin to the U.S. using Pan Am flights as per Oliver North in the Iran-Contra scandal, where a suitcase that contained Heroin was allegedly switched to one containing bombs.
Pan Am took the US Government to Court over this but their case was struck out.
‘Sing A Sweet Love Song!’ vox version eLBee BaD
Iran · CIA drug smuggling · Alleged framing of Libya · Iran and the London angle
Yes Skinner
That is the general impression. Game playing to deflect from central failures.
Getting tired of the back and forth and blame game….with NO OFFERING OF CONCRETE SOLUTIONS FOR ANY OF THE SELF-CREATED ILLS….it’s a merry-go-round and no one wants to get off..
“The bigger issue, obviously Hawkesworth knew too much, became a loose end and was removed by bigger fish.
Those bigger fish and the whole organisation are the issue.
Because those are the poison to Barbados.
That is where resources and thought should be focused.”
chickens are home and roosting.
““Barbadian authorities set up the DEA to arrest Hawkesworth so they could steal his land and money.””
stop LYING….i said one of the defendants….NEVER CALLED ANY NAMES…because i saw the documents and don’t need to…they know WHO THEY ARE…
i still can’t get anyone to tell me WHY THE CASE WAS DROPPED…
“Mark my word, this is pure propaganda and pretty disguised political gymnastics these days.”
gymnastics don’t always work…..chickens HOME AND ROOSTING…
There is a good reason why those who control the drug trade tend to be untouchables.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There actually is…
But instead of accepting the REALITY of our current situation as CONSISTENTLY explained by Bushie, wunna keep on looking for windmills to attack.
In the current SPIRITUAL battle being waged, the EVIL forces have been allowed to gain the upper hand because brass bowls have CHOSEN to follow their albino-centric doctrines about materialism, greed and selfishness.
Basically the OTHER spiritual side of the conflict has had to concede to our brass bowl wishes – and take a step back.
It is therefore only OBVIOUS that the ‘agents of EVIL’ will be ‘untouchable’…. FOR THE TIME BEING….
In the fullness of time however, when the full time whistle blows (or is it a trumpet?)…
… and (what the Rastaman calls) “Earth’s RIGHTFUL RULER” re-takes FULL control ‘VI ET ARMES’ … it gwine be cat piss and pepper bout here…
NorthernObserverAugust 8, 2022 12:06 AM
@John
Never a good walk wasted.
Challenge is, how many actually WALK any longer? Many of these newer abominations they call ‘golf courses’ ban walking. There is $$ in renting power carts?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The point is if Charles Herbert is known to enjoy hiking there is little chance he will play golf!!
In all the years I hiked I never met a body who played golf on any hike.
Rather, hikers were miffed when Wastemoreland stopped us hiking through the cart roads and trails and Richard Goddard organised a hike along the Indian Trail that crossed Apes Hill golf course.
CH was on it.
There is a video somewhere on youtube if you want proof!!