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by Peter Thompson – submitted as a letter to the editor of the Nation newspaper and circulated on social media.
Nelson statue defaced on the eve of Independence Day.

THE LAST SUNDAY SUN Editorial, No Good Reason To Deface Statue, is a lost opportunity for Nation Publishing to contribute positively to a conversation among Barbadians about the history and future together of those who are categorised as black or white. Make no mistake: this controversy is about nothing less.

It is not sufficient for our premier national newspaper to hide behind what reads like a schoolmarm’s condemnation of the bad behaviour of splashing paint on the statue. This is not about the paint; it is not even about the statue. This is about who we are as a people.

The perpetrator is not from among the elite, but their misspellings aside, the handwritten placard they left is perfectly eloquent: “This RACIST white supremacist who would rather die than see black people free stands proudly in our nation’s capital NELSON MUST GO!! Fear not Barbados the people have spoken. Politicians have failed us. HAPPY INDEPENCE (sic).”

I was born to privilege and I have led a privileged life: Harrison College education, a postgraduate degree, a Canadian passport as well as a Bajan one. It humbles and shames me that it was left to a person with none of my advantages in life to speak this truth to power. I hope that they read this so that I can express my gratitude. Thank you.

Talk about race

We have been trying to talk about this since before Independence. The Mighty Gabby sang about the pain that it causes more than 30 years ago. What will it take for us to have an honest conversation about history and race in Barbados? This perpetrator splashed some non-toxic, environmentally-friendly paint that caused no permanent damage at all and took less than three hours to clean off. Are we waiting until some impassioned fool imitates the Irish who took high explosives to their statue of Nelson?

Your editorial complains about “distortions previously fed to us that [. . .] generate extreme feelings among some sections of our people”. Someone who didn’t know better might conclude that the placard contained distortions – it does not.

Yes, there are distortions circulating on social media and Nation Publishing should have set the record straight: no, Nelson did not own slaves or engage personally in the slave trade; yes, the statue was erected to celebrate Nelson’s victory at Trafalgar by racists who believed in white supremacy; no, Trevor Marshall’s assertion that “all researchers today regard Horatio Nelson as one the main factors why the British slave trade was not abolished in 1790, but in 1807 after his death in 1805” is not supported by the evidence; yes, Nelson was a racist believer in white supremacy, as were the vast majority of his British contemporaries, even among those supporting Emancipation.

We have witnessed an outpouring on social media seasoned with anger and pain. The largest ingredient was the lack of knowledge and understanding of our history. Among the conversations that I engaged in there were a few which gave me great hope – where I interacted with white Bajans who started out vehemently opposed to moving the statue and making comments that veered into overt racism, but after a dialogue agreed that the statue was in the wrong place, was offensive to their fellow Bajans, and should probably be relocated to the museum with appropriate interpretive signage to explain the context of its existence.

I think it is the duty of Nation Publishing to pay attention to this national conversation beyond a facile condemnation of defacing the statue. We need you to bring professional journalism to the critical issues that are being discussed. Examine the issues; talk to the experts; analyse the pros and cons.

This is a matter for public education, but it will not be solved by staging an opinion poll or a popularity contest. These are issues of right and wrong that strike at the core of who we are as a people, as a nation.

We need you to take a stand. Please lend your authority to the cries to do what is right and relocate the statue of Nelson to a more appropriate venue.


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467 responses to “Gratitude to Nelson ‘artist’”


  1. Bush Tea, the present is what it is! You can only attempt to manage the future. You can’t even”change” the future. You can only attempt to get the result you find desirable.

    David
    What we need now is to be visionary (not dreamers). Vision involves not only seeing the outcome we want but the steps to get there. Dreaming is just wishful thinking. The “past” may provide examples of what we do not want or even what we do want but situations, people, resources are never exactly the same as before. Visionary thinking requires creativity, thinking “outside the box” and spiritually preparing oneself for the unexpected.


  2. Bush Tea
    What does “let the dead bury the dead” mean? The past is dead and the present is dying. Only the future is alive.

  3. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Makes sense, so there should be no statues of dead racists or white supremacists who NEVER added any value to the lives of Black people or their ancestors, but disrespectfully called them less than human for centuries….no such statues of those savages should ever be on public display…ever again.

    They should be in museums where people can pay to view their evil physical appearances and the country benefit from their past presence, or at the bottom of the sea, where sea life can benefit….finally their former existence on earth will serve a useful purpose to others on the earth, as opposed to their selfish legacies left behind.

    Never forget your past or you are doomed to repeat the same errors over and over.


  4. Georgie Porgie December 5, 2017 at 8:47 PM #

    Privilege is not the same as merit. By the way, I respect medical doctors, but it is no greater achievement than any other profession.

    .

  5. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Trafalgar most people will associate with Nelson but if you had attended when Captain Hutt taught us History you would have realized the Nile was something special!!

    @John,

    The Captain Hutt I remember never TAUGHT a day of history. he simply read from the text and grunted occasionally!

    If you are John G, we were not that far apart to suggest radical change,


  6. @ Ping Pong
    The past is our ‘education’.
    The present is what we MAKE it.
    The future is impacted by what we DO in the present….. which should be GUIDED by what happened in the past.

    The PRESENT is to ONLY thing that we have some measure of control over.
    We CAN change the present – by our premeditated ACTIONS….. which then impacts on our future.

    “Let the dead bury their dead” is actually a very dismissive directive given to a special set of people that means, Do not waste your time trying to impart spiritual concepts onto people who are ‘dead’ to such concepts – for lack of the ability to understand or appreciate them.

    It also speaks to wasting valuable time on meaningless issues that are NOT important to the REAL point of life on earth.

    Somewhat like “not casting pearls to swine….”
    It has nothing to do with ‘forgetting the past..’.
    To forget the past is to ignore VALUABLE education and experience and to likely keep on making the same stupid mistakes over and over…

  7. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ John December 6, 2017 at 7:44 AM
    “It will be interesting to see if the manhole situation improves after the impact of the Super Moon on tides recede..”

    Sir John, why are you going to get it in your ‘quacky’ quaker head that the dangerously expanding sewage situation on the South Coast is not the direct result of the tidal movements.

    The problem stems from the ‘fact’ that the integrity of the system has been badly compromised because of poor sub-standard work in its construction and a lack of proper maintenance over the years.

    Even the disgruntled Minister responsible for sewage has acknowledged this ‘fact’.

    Next time you are out and about (aka sniffing around) why not check to see if the utility poles (already over-laden with too many cables) are leaning with some about to topple over as a result of the undermining of the road foundation by the leaking sewage pipelines.

    We hate to say this; but the authorities have been playing for far too long a cat and mouse game with this sewage problem.

    This game has now been turned into one of Russian roulette with the health of the public the only stakes on the table.

    There is only one outcome unless this shitty game is brought to an abrupt end.

    Bajan whites might hide and grumble and retreat to their ‘homes’. But the white tourists will NOT put up with the shite and would act with their feet, not by wading through the sewage, but straight to the nearest taxi to the airport; adamant never to return to the falsely promoted tropical paradise now turned into a veritable hot shit-house.

    What are these stupid black authorities waiting for? For the UK to impose a travel ban to Bim because of the massive risks posed to the health and safety of its citizens thinking of flying away this winter?

    Having 20 odd downgrades to your economy is no excuse for accumulating garbage and now human faeces (shit) all over the place. Poverty is no excuse for poor hygiene.

    Where is the Pride and Industry in your 51st year of Independence?

    As a good god-fearing Quaker you ought to know that Cleanliness is next to Godliness. You don’t need Horatio Nelson to tell the niggers that.


  8. @David Mr Blogmaster, is there any link between due diligence and non sequitur..😁…this is a bit of the latter but harks to the former : John’s supposed excellent due dillifence.

    If the US President takes his wrecking ball today or later this week to one of the intractable ‘statues’ of Middle East peace discourse and proclaims US official recognition of Jerusalem in its entirety as the capital of Israel then John’s extensive defense of the Admiral and his victory at the Nile becomes more apropos…Perhaps!

    That is to say, as John sets it out the Admiral’s influence and impact has been singularly important to seminal historical events so I would be keen to read his expositions of that Nile victory and the threads leading to present strife.

    Oh, the fact that the US act is effectively a declaration for a furious new round of sectarian violence, death and mayhem is an entirely different discourse…Thats the non sequitur to this topic.

    Yet, I am sure John can show a purposeful nexus between the Admiral and the Pres…that’s the due diligence.


  9. @Jeff Cumberbatch at 9:02 AM #

    “The Captain Hutt I remember never TAUGHT a day of history. he simply read from the text and grunted occasionally!”

    Captain Hutt was a bigoted atrocity with very little brain and even less moral integrity. In short, a scumbag. In my time he did not even read from the text himself, but got various boys to read as he sat and glared. Moreover, he did not even have the decency or common sense to buy a copy of the text himself, he always had to borrow one from some boy in the class.


  10. Bush Tea, if you can find the words “forget the past” in anything I written then you may be possibly correct in your assessment of my position.

    The one thing I learned from Capt. Hutt was that I do not need a specific teacher to learn anything.


  11. John December 6, 2017 at 7:24 AM #

    Are we going to change the name of the Royal Barbados Police Force?

  12. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    @ David

    Thanks for the clarification. Never thought of it as an interjection.


  13. @ Ping Pong
    Touche…

    Bushie may have rushed to judgment from your comment “We need to stop overly concerning ourselves about where we came from and concern ourselves with where we are going.”

    Admittedly it was not to ‘forget the past…’


  14. Bush Tea
    For some because something happened “in the past” then so shall it be for evermore! Dead people!


  15. While we at it why not blacks call for removal of all white statutes in churches that have purposely and deliberately uses images which for the better part does not in reality is correct in their depiction of people in the bible starting with the image of Jesus.
    After all modern history says different
    An image also tainted with racist views and idealogies.
    No one include Hilary Beckles seems not to have a problem with such images
    Also note worthy that Beckles and those calling for the removal of Nelson have no problem bowing in so called reverence to those white images on Sundays


  16. Ping Pong at 8:51 AM #
    “The past is dead and the present is dying. Only the future is alive.”

    Actually Ping Pong, the past is dead and the future has not yet been born… the only thing that is alive is each fleeting present moment. Live each one to the fullest.


  17. A.C.
    Seems in danger of getting some sense

    In the effort protect the dlp


  18. Such hypocricy boils over like the stench coming from the south west sewer system
    When last have any one of these great intelluctual thinkers have a bold stance about confronting the churches views and idoltry presentation of whites images foisted on the mentaly of blacks and have passed on from generation to generation
    In my humble opinion the church is where where all the hue and church should be unloaded


  19. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

    Duty of care.

    Land isn’t sold till title is established.

    A valuation is usually done.

    We got a statue from the past.

    Title is established, it’s clearly ours!!

    Let’s for the moment assume it has a value, I’ve shown Haiti and America may want it!!

    So, suppose we sell it to a willing buyer!!!

    What is it worth?

    Nothing according to the agents of our politicians.

    Now, haven’t we gone this way countless times before?

    The problem is the people who have a duty of care to us to perform due diligence are telling us the statue is worthless!!

    … and look at the gullible fools that are braying like jackasses in agreement!!


  20. PLT
    ok, I can live that. I hope you and others understand my post. Just a final thought, only something that is alive can be born. The challenge is to live so as to experience the future we wish. As Martin Carter wrote “Death will not find us thinking that we die”.


  21. re Ping Pong. December 6, 2017 at 9:23 AM #

    The one thing I learned from Capt. Hutt was that I do not need a specific teacher to learn anything.

    DO YOU SAY THIS BECAUSE HE WAS EXTREMELY BORING AND TAUGHT IN MY VIEW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?

    HE DID, HOWEVER, MAKE PIE CORNER SEEM TO BE VERY VERY FAR AWAY


  22. @Pacha

    How so? Going to church is a personal decision confined to a private space. The Nelson stature is a matter of public and national import given where the admiral is anchored.

  23. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    PLT at 9 :45 AM

    Wise observation . We always only have the present. Let us” enjoy it to the fullest”

    In my life I have seen too many unhappy people who have achieved a lot but are haunted by the sufferings of the past. I resolved that I will never be like them. I use the present to build a better future for my fellow man. Hate at any level ( ie self hate, hate of others) is a thief of happiness.
    ” If you worship me I will give you all that your eyes can see and your heart desires”. Lie ! Always was and always will be .


  24. The church was the biggest perpetrator of racist views all propped up in religiuos ideaologies and doctrines which were mostly developed in their images to make blacks feel worthless
    Angels are white.i wonder whose idea was that?Still presently modern day historians have continued to give the church a pass wrapped in the principle of the artist freedom of expression
    Very little has every been said or done concerning these images .images that continue today to blurred the difference between truth and reality and right and wrong in the minds of black worshippers


  25. While we at it why not blacks call for removal of all white statutes in churches that have purposely and deliberately uses images which for the better part does not in reality is correct in their depiction of people in the bible starting with the image of Jesus.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You really missed out badly on your history education.

    It flew over your head and left you untouched!!

    That is one of the reasons why Barbados and America were refuges to Quakers, and Puritans before them.

    They subscribed to the same philosophy, except they applied it to all statues without exception.

    The Church of England and Rome persecuted them as a result.

    I have suggested the same thinking be applied here as well!!

    I tried, but as they say, you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make him drink!!

    Did you know that there is a “Shelter Island” off New York which three Barbados Quakers purchased in 1651 to supply Barbados with fish, lumber etc?

    One was called Constant Sylvester …. Constant Plantation.

    Another was a Middleton, Middleton’s Mount, now the Mount St. George and the third was Thomas Rouse of Halton!!

    What’s interesting is that Shelter Island remains to this day associated with a Middleton Family!!

    https://hamptons.curbed.com/2012/9/4/10332898/pippa-middleton-visits-shelter-island-the-mon-tiki-more

    … and Thomas Rouse’s son, John, married Margaret Fell, daughter of the widow of Judge Fell, Margaret Fell, who married George Fox!!


  26. GP
    Hutt’s classes were memorable for the antics my classmates got up to particularly during tests!

    By the way, your posts on the temptation of Jesus yesterday was particularly stimulating. It has caused me to think critically on my own expectations of God’s actions in my life.


  27. That’s how I know that Quaker influence in Barbados had waned before 1805 … had it not, we would not be having this discussion!!

    No Statue to discuss!!

  28. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac December 6, 2017 at 9:41 AM
    “While we at it why not blacks call for removal of all white statutes in churches that have purposely and deliberately uses images which for the better part does not in reality is correct in their depiction of people in the bible starting with the image of Jesus.
    After all modern history says different
    An image also tainted with racist views and idealogies.
    No one include Hilary Beckles seems not to have a problem with such images
    Also note worthy that Beckles and those calling for the removal of Nelson have no problem bowing in so called reverence to those white images on Sundays..”

    Excellent contribution, ac!

    Was going to make a similar reference but got caught up in the sewage spill.

    Those who are calling for the removal and or destruction of a statue of a man long dead ought to call a spade and spade and request similar treatment of an institution whose iconic presence is less than a mile due East of the same pigeon toilet with the image of a one-eye-one-arm white man.

    Why not be an equal opportunity fundamentalist of an iconoclast Taliban style and call for the ‘boycotting’ or razing of the Anglican Church? Wasn’t that much revered institution the bulwark of chattel slavery and the bastion of racism long before Nelson ever came to the Caribbean?

    The word ‘Glebe’ has far-reaching ramifications for black people in Bim.

    No black slaves could have attended- far less be baptized, married or buried (hatch, match and dispatch)- any Anglican church during the period of slavery.

    Wasn’t this perfect practice of white supremacy, with a white Jesus and a cast of all-white priests at the centre, the zenith of racism to later con black fools after emancipation?

    At least Nelson had blacks among his naval crew; even if working as only powder monkeys, cooks, cleaners, bilge-pumpers and bunk-bed warmers.

    All of those calling for the dismantling of the lifeless statue of diseased ridden one-eye sailor while turning a blind eye to a well-established source of racist white supremacy are nothing but a bunch of deliberately blind two-faced hypocrites.

    “If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”

    “Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.”


  29. So ac, maybe you are right in your suggestion, Blacks should become Quakers!!

    That way, all statues, including Nelson, can be removed on a matter of established principle!!

  30. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    AC Yardfowl…instead of trying to distract the blog with nonsense, tell Fruendel and his gang to clean up the shitstained streets, I will be driving around this week, will try to avoid the south coast, but if I cant avoid yall shitbomb and witness the stench and putrid leaks mysef….I will be sure to be very descriptive on the blogs.


  31. Ping Pong December 6, 2017 at 10:22 AM #
    GP
    RE Hutt’s classes were memorable for the antics my classmates got up to particularly during tests!

    I GUESS YOU MEAN THE TIEFING THAT WENT ON lol
    HOWEVER, HE LOVED BARBADOS WITH A PASSION—–ESPECIALLY GRAHME HALL SWAMP

    By the way, your posts on the temptation of Jesus yesterday was particularly stimulating.
    YES GUZICK IS A GREAT HELP IN GETTING STARTED TO “WORK UP” A PASSAGE

    It has caused me to think critically on my own expectations of God’s actions in my life.

    I PROMISED TO POST MY OWN WRITINGS ON THE TEMPTATIONS OF JESUS COMPARED TO THOSE OF ADAM AND EVE, AND OUR OWN SITUATION, FROM MY D Min THESIS.
    I MUST DO SO


  32. Indivudual preference what? After years of indoctrination by the churches teachings where would one find an individual right of preference. Too late the mind has already been cemented and grounded with a likeness to the teachings of the master andletting go is not going to be easy. The need to feel accepted and be a member of a following group is most comfortable

  33. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    If this does not prove beyond any shadow of a doubt the seismic societal shift that has taken place worldwide now that people are aware they have the POWER to speak up and speak out against wrongs and crimes committed in the past, present and future..

    If Caribbean people, particularly Bajans dont learn that now…they never will.

    This is the era of stand your ground.

    “2K
    NewsWorldAmericas
    Hollywood abuse ‘silence breakers’ named as Time magazine’s person of the year

    ‘This is the fastest moving social change we have seen in decades,’ says Time editor-in-chief

    Maya Oppenheim @mayaoppenheim 4 hours ago4 comments

    The Independent US

    The award is decided by Time’s editors and goes to the person or group who has had the most influence on the year’s news for better or worse
    POPULAR VIDEOS

    The Hollywood abuse “silence breakers” have been named as Time magazine’s 2017 Person of the Year.

    The decision to grant people who have come forward with allegations of sexual misconduct with the accolade was announced on NBC’s Today show on Wednesday morning.

    The award is decided by Time’s editors and goes to the person or group who has had the most influence on the year’s news for better or worse.

    “This is the fastest moving social change we have seen in decades,” Time editor-in-chief Edward Felsenthal told the programme.

    “It began with individual acts of courage by hundreds of women – and some men, too – who came forward to tell their own stories”.


  34. John December 6, 2017 at 10:29 AM #

    What about the Plymouth Bretheren?


  35. Isn’t Nelson a creation of an establishment that created a white Jesus supported slavery and now as a form of redemption washes itself in the blood of the lamb.
    So how it is that the higher powers of injustice and hides behind the so called sacredness of the church gets a pass while Nelson who did their bidding is now being place in the forefront and single out


  36. Did you know there is a Nelson Island right here in the Caribbean?!!

    http://nationaltrust.tt/heritage-sites/nelson-island/

    While we are screwing around over a statue, Trinidad has given over jurisdiction of this and other islands to the National Trust for heritage tourism.

    Hilary Beckles going to the Caricom HOGs with his story may raise an eyebrow or three in Trinidad as well as Haiti!!

    It wouldn’t surprise me if they laugh him out of their presence!!!!

    But who knows!!!

    See if you can find out about the one off the coast of Africa commemorating the Victory of the Nile ….. and the one in Alaska … told you America has a deep interest in Nelson …. and the one in ….. and so on.


  37. PLT

    Next time you are out in BC area, stop by Nelson Island.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Island_(British_Columbia)

    I have never been myself but have enjoyed salmon fishing up that side!!


  38. @John

    You are aware that Sir Hilary is the Chair of the Repatriation Committee appointed by the HoGs?

    If/when Nelson is dumped at the museum it remains a tourist attraction, the knock on benefit is that the shops in the environs will secure some sales.


  39. RE Hal Austin December 6, 2017 at 11:18 AM #
    John December 6, 2017 at 10:29 AM #

    What about the Plymouth Bretheren?

    WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE PLYMOUTH BRETHREN SIR?

    PERHAPS YOU CAN READ 100 YEARS OF THE GOSPEL HALLS IN BARBADOS

    THERE ARE 13 GOSPEL HALL ASSEMBLIES IN BARBADOS

    AND PERHAPS THE SAME NUMBER OF ANOTHER GROUP OF ESSENTIALLY PLYMOUTH BRETHREN ASSEMBLIES

    THE SO CALLED EXCLUSIVE OR “CLOSED” BRETHREN WERE/ARE ALSO PLYMOUTH BRETHREN

    THE PLYMOUTH BRETHREN EVOLVED OUT OF THE ANGLICAN CHURCH IN IRELAND, WHEN JOHN N DARBY AND OTHERS “REDISCOVERED” THE PROPER STUDY OF THE BIBLE…….LONG FORGOTTEN SINCE THE DARK AGES

    DARBY WAS A LAWYER AND AN ANGLICAN PRIEST
    THE ORIGINAL BRETHREN DID NOT SEEK TO START A NEW DENOMINATION, AND WORSHIPED SIMPLY IN ROOMS OR HALLS.

    THE MOVEMENT SOON MOVED TO THE ENGLISH TOWN OF PLYMOUTH– HENCE THE NAME PLYMOUTH BRETHREN. IN THE FIRST 50 YEARS OF ITS EXISTENCE THEY HAD SPREAD TO SEVERAL PARTS OF THE WORLD INCLUDING INDIA.

    A BRETHREN CHURCH IS LED BY A GROUP OF ELDERS, RATHER THAN BY A “PASTOR” OR “PRIEST”


  40. Thanks. My question was a bit more. I anted to know about their presence in Barbados, their jobs and businesses and what they now do.


  41. re I wanted to know about their presence in Barbados, their jobs and businesses and what they now do.

    If you discount the now seemingly obsolete exclusive or closed brethren, local Plymouth Brethren are fairly normal folk with normal jobs.

    Headmaster of St Leonard’s is Brethren
    Former head of HC Dr Robert Belgrave is Brethren
    First head of VAT and his brother, a retired judge, and former Governor of the Central bank ,
    I am told, spent their formative years in the local Gospel Halls.

    Some brethren have been building contractors, some owned hardware stores and village shops, many are school teachers, and some members even became top civil servants.

    My childhood best friend, former Combermere cricketer, and Barbados official in NY, and past President of the USA cricket association spent his Sunday school days at Dayrell’s Rd zgospel Hall, and I can go on.

    Local Gospel Hall folk that I know are fairly normal folk with normal jobs, who seek to live simple godly lives, based on what the Bible teaches .

    Catwell’s 100 years of the Gospel Hall in Barbados will give you reasonable account of aspects of the Brethren in Barbados–though not of the “exclusive” or “closed” Brethren.


  42. Harold Hoyte’s father was a known Brethren elder…….not sure if Harold attended.


  43. Georgie Porgie December 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM #

    Many thanks.


  44. Why is the bible so down in all these shout outs, doh.

    Why must this lovely book be so complex that deep knowledge and study is necessaryto gin even simple understanding.

    Why must faith be tested based on that knowledge rather than individual acceptance.

    If you see the faith as a BBE why is that not worthy.

    If you see no faith as an agnostic or atheist why is that not worthy of human kindness like Jesus offered.

    Why can the Chinese, Muslims or Indians believe in a different faith based entity and why must Christians fight against them to accept the Jesus faith.

    Why did Jesus choose fishermen rather than wise scholars but scholarship has become the first way forward to carry his message.

    How can men and women defy standards of the Christian commandments, thou shall not lie, shall not covet thy neighbor’s (ass,pussy, underage boys and girls), shall not bear false witness and cuss stink but call themselves servants of a Christian faith.

    How and why do we practice these daily?


  45. Why do morons ask stupid questions on BU as they pretend to have sense and simultaneously demonstrate that they are very ignorant?

    example ….Why did Jesus choose fishermen rather than wise scholars but scholarship has become the first way forward to carry his message.

    When John Baptist declared as recorded in John 1 that Jesus was the Lamb of God, who was it that sought out Jesus, and having spent a little bit of time with him were convinced that he was indeed the antitype of the Lamb typified first in Exodus 12? Who was it that sought out their brothers and declared we have found the Christ? i.e the one predicted since Deut 18 by Moses and afterwards by all the prophets? IT WAS THE FISHERMEN ANDREW AND JOHN.

    Does the author of this stupid question know that John and his family, though fishermen were well off.
    Does the author of this stupid question know that even fishermen in Israel knew the Torah very well?

    Does the author of this stupid question know that even fishermen in Israel, like every one else were expected to know and follow the teachings of Deuteronomy 8:6-8.
    6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
    7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
    8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
    9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates

    Does the author of this stupid question know that Paul and Luke, who together wrote most of the NT were scholars?

    Does the author of this stupid question know that 1 Coprinthians 1:26 teaches that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

    Will he note that it says NOT MANY and not NOT ANY

    Does the author of this stupid question know that JOHN 1: 11 SAYS
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

    Will the author of this stupid question ask himself why it is that the than wise scholars were not wise enough to receive him

    Does the author of this stupid question know understand that the scribes who often opposed the Lord were supposed to know the OT law very well, and were indeed scholars?

    Does the author of this stupid question know anything about the topic, or is just a common BU rum shop brimbler?

    Does the author of this stupid question know that 2 Tim 2:15 teaches

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


  46. Why must this lovely book be so complex that deep knowledge and study is necessary to gin even simple understanding.

    Medicine, Physics, Chaucer Sheridan etc are all complex and require study to comprehend. WHY NOT THE BIBLE?

    You understand the Bible by mastering it one book at a time.

    Start with the one chapter books like Obadiah, Jude and Philemon and 2 and 3 John,
    then go to the 2 chapter and 3 chapter books. Check out simple study guides by Guzick and other good teachers currently available online.

    As you learn more you can listen to J Vernon Mc Gee, Adrian Rogers etc

    NO PAIN NO GAIN JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE

    REALIZE THAT EVERYTHING ON ONE TOPIC IS NOT IN ONE PLACE SINCE THE CONCEPTS ARE DEVELOPED GRADUALLY


  47. GP
    I see you share a DMin as does the man called Dr Denis Lowe.Are you two of the same theological background and knowledge/training?Same institution of learning?Same persuasion?Same principles of life and of morality?


  48. @ Gabriel
    …THAT was a low(e) blow.


  49. GABRIEL
    YOU ARE BECOMING A VERY NAUGHTY NAUGHTY BOY
    I THINK THAT YOU NEED A CONDUCT CARD!

    WHY DO YOU WANT TO BRING ME SO LOW(E)

    I THINK THAT I CAN SAY THAT THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTIONS IS NO

    I DID THE DMin online from a Baptist school because I got addicted to the challenges in the questions they posed in assignments.

    For example

    God was able to remove Israel from Egypt, but he was unable to remove Egypt from Israel. Support your answer by 30 scriptures.

    or

    Jesus said”Abraham rejoiced to see my day and was glad.” How did Abraham see Jesus day?
    Support your answer by 30 scriptures.

    I had no plan to study anything formally, but I do enjoy studying the word, and these guys posed interesting questions which excited me.

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