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Queen_Elizabeth II — Queen Elizabeth stoutly defends the Church and religion

Why does the act of praying become top of mind whenever there is a desire to be comforted? This observation is all the more real when those who invoke and participate in prayer are non believers. Those who watched The Grammys (2012) witnessed host LL Cool J kicking off proceedings with a prayer triggered by the passing of Whitney Houston. It didn’t matter that we live in a world comprised of believers, atheists, agnostics and God knows who else. The audience appeared to accede to LL Cool J’s request without rebellion.

It should be of interest to many that a debate is currently raging in Great Britain, sparked by a court decision to ban the tradition of saying prayers at council meetings. There is a rising fear among ‘believers’ that centuries old tradition of praying to kick off public meetings is under threat by the ruling. To add to the concern for Christians everywhere there was a recent court ruling in the US jurisdiction where ‘a Judge has ruled that churches must stop meeting in school buildings because a worship service is an act of organised religion that consecrates the place in which it is performed, making it a church’. The fight between the secular and non-secular is beginning to take shape. A former Archbishop of Canterbury was prompted to warn that ‘our faith is under siege’.

The debate in the UK is likely to be stoked further with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II entering the fray. Queen Elizabeth took the most unusual step of, in effect, condemning the court decision against having prayers as a part of the agendas of public institutions. Also, Baroness Warsi (a Muslim) in a speech at the Vatican also condemned the high court ruling. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth left no one in any doubt as to her feelings on the matter in an address delivered at Lambeth Palace at the first official Diamond Jubilee function at a luncheon for the heads of the 7 largest faiths in the UK. The fact that Queen Elizabeth rarely expresses herself in such firm terms will not be taken lightly in a society which represents the bastion of Christianity. How many bets that the decision in this matter is likely to be overturned?

We are living in interesting times!

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74 responses to “Hear Our Prayer O Lord”

Amused

February 17, 2012 at 4:08 am

So it damned well should be overturned. Outrageous. There is nothing that dictates those who prefer not to pray from not praying. They need only remain in silence through respect for those of us who do pray. As our whole society, whether it be Barbados, USA, UK, Canada – wherever, is based upon the supreme authority of God (by whatever name He is known) this decision by the UK judge is patent nonsense. Mind you, it is a relief to see that not only Barbados has jackasses for judges.

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TECHNICIAN

February 17, 2012 at 9:58 am

….’ They need only remain in silence through respect for those of us who do pray…’

Why can’t it be the other way around?

Why can’t they pray in silence out of respect for those who don’t pray?

Oooooh, I forgot…..those who pray and are considered xtians are better than anyone else on Earth.
Good decision…stop it all together, If you truly pray, then it should not be hard to do it in silence.

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Zoe

February 17, 2012 at 10:02 am

God has placed within mankind, a conscience, an awareness, whether he/she is an Atheists/Agnostic or otherwise, that HE is real.

Many Atheists in time of trouble, call OUT instintively, on the God, they have wilfully chosen to deny, “Oh God, help me…”

Yes, there is a wicked, thrust in England, the US, et al countries, to remove prayer from schools, traditional functions, and the very Judiciary IS at the forefront of this anti-God agenda.

Whenever, the foundation of the historic Judeo/Christian principles are removed from our schools, courts, etc, the nation starts to crumble, in every area of its existence, AND, this IS* evident throughout the UK and the US, et al nations as well.

“UNLESS the LORD builds the house ( Nation, family, etc) They labour in VAIN, who build it; UNLESS the LORD guards the city, (parish, home, etc) The watchman stays awake in VAIN.” (Psa. 127: 1) Emphasis added.

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David

February 17, 2012 at 10:03 am

@Techie

Can we give credence to tradition in this instance?

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Pachamama

February 17, 2012 at 10:31 am

Why? Why should people who are not part of this acili be subjected to it. Why should we remain ‘silent’ while ‘christians’ or other people of ‘faith’ engage in activities that are not connected to anything that is real, provable, empirical? Why should we respect a hocus pocus that criminalized African peoples? Enslaved us for 400 years under the ambit of a white god somewhere in the sky. A god whose fictitious book was instrumental in these acts. A book than has been shown to be, from the beginning to the end, full of outright lies, malicious interpretation of actual historical events and downright fraudulent. A book written by the hand of normal human beings that purports to be inspired by somebody in the sky somewhere. On all points this criminal imposition has been found wanting. On the contrary, the time is soon approaching when the propagation of this drivel will be regarded as the crime against humanity that it is. But there is hope, should christians be able to use the interregnum to explain all the crimes that they committed and are currently engaged in, there may be some consideration of forgiveness from the rest of us.

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Zoe

February 17, 2012 at 11:01 am

“Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn REFUSE to accept them.”
(Martin Luther King)

“Prayer in schools prior to 1962 was utilized in school districts all over the U.S. in many varieties. Some teachers used extemporaneous prayers, simply expressing their thoughts and desires; others implemented structured prayers, such as the Lord’s Prayer or the 23rd Psalm, or others approved by local school boards. New York students prayed each day:”

“Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee and beg Thy blessing over us, our parents, our teachers, and our nation.”

“It was this simple prayer which came under fire and went to the Supreme Court for the landmark decision.”

“Much has been said both for and against prayer in schools. There is little doubt that neither the Lord Jesus Himself nor the founding fathers would have been in favour of ‘forced’ or ‘state sponsored’ prayer. The option to pray or not to pray is a matter of individual choice and has to come from the heart. It is a matter of some doubt whether the actual doing away of prayer in schools has directly contributed to the escalation of teen-age pregnancies and suicides and the downward spiral of the SAT scores. The Pharisees thought they would be heard for their ‘much speaking’, and similarly it is questionable as to how much value there is in a ‘canned’ prayer even if recited by thousands of young people across the country. (Consider that most schools in India start their day with a very generic prayer, similar to the one that sparked the U.S. Supreme court’s decision on the Engels v. Vitale case in 1962).”

“What Really Caused The Downward Spiral?
In the words of Greg Koukl..”

“However some indisputable statistics tell us that the downward slide in behavior started about the time of the court decision and was very evidently related. As we see it, the court ruling to remove prayer from the school system was nothing more than the ‘official’ stamp on the removal of God from a very crucial part of our society. It was simply one large step among many small ones, which has contributed to the moral & spiritual disintegration of the US. It was a flying leap across the narrow chasm separating a God fearing moral country and the chaotic ‘everything goes’ situation we find ourselves in today. The message the Supreme Court sent to the country that fateful day was that it was okay to ‘remove’ God from His rightful place. They were simply another, very effective, tool in Satan’s hand”

“Remove the fear of God from the human heart, whitewash the reality that, sooner or later, all of us will answer to a supremely moral Being, eliminate the concept that He demands adherence to His laws and it is but a short step to the deterioration of the cornerstone of society… The Family. With the fear of God done away with there is no longer any reason to treat the marriage vows as sacred, to bring up God-fearing children. From there it is an even shorter step to all the other sinister and evil circumstances we find ourselves in today…. Teen pregnancies, violent crime, suicide, drugs and alcohol abuse are the very logical fruits of a society that has forgotten that He is a God of wrath.”

“The elimination of the fear of God, symbolized by the Supreme courts actions in the matter of school prayer, led to a dramatic increase in crime, venereal disease, premarital sex, illiteracy, suicide, drug use, public corruption, and other social ills. This documented by Specialty Research Associates, under the direction of David Barton, that has released a report entitled America: To Pray or Not to Pray. Below are just a few of the examples featured in Barton’s report.”

A. Young People

1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.

2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.

3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.

B. The Family

1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.

2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%

3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.

4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.

C. Education

1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.

2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.

a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.

b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.

c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.

3. Of the nation’s top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.

D. The Nation

1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.

3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.

2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.

Putting Prayer Back In Schools?

“Putting prayer back into schools may do more harm than good… In the words of Greg Koukl”

“…. It may be that the thing that has caused our decline was not pulling prayer out of schools, but there is a third thing that caused both the decline and the pulling of prayer out of schools. The reason that’s important is that if we try to fix the problem by putting prayer back into schools, and taking it out wasn’t the thing that caused the problem, then we are kind of fixing the wrong part of a machine that’s not working. But in the process of fixing we could do more damage, and this is a big concern that I have. You have to be careful of making decisions based on what appears to be a causal relationship if there isn’t in fact a causal relationship. …”

“now that it’s gone you will not be able to get back in the schools what was lost because if we reintroduce prayer in schools in any sense it’s going to be kind of a benign civil religious prayer that satisfies everyone and offends no one… I think it may end up doing more harm than good by teaching people that as long as you have a kind of a benign, broad-brushed reference to some kind of deity then you are doing okay, and the details don’t really matter that much. That would be a terrible message to send to young people.” [1]

End Notes

[1] Gregory Koukl. School Prayer: The Wrong Hill to Die On.
http://www.str.org/site/News2?id=5556&page=NewsArticle

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Is School Prayer Actually Prohibited?
It is our understanding that this is not the case.

“The Engel v. Vitale decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1962 prohibited only state-mandated prayer in public schools classrooms. As Richard Riley, the former Secretary of Education, stated: “…religious rights of students and their right to freedom of conscience do not stop at the schoolhouse door.” He was apparently quoting another landmark Supreme Court decision: Tinker v. Des Moines where the court ruled that students do not “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

(Richard Riley, Letter to school principals dated 1999-DEC-17, at: http://www.ed.gov/inits/religionandschools/secletter.html)

Apparently students in U.S. public schools are free to:

Take Bibles or other religious texts with them on the school bus.

Pray alone or in groups at the flagpole or elsewhere on school grounds.

Pray in classrooms outside of regular teaching hours.

Say grace and/or pray in a school cafeteria.

Form a Bible study club or any other religious club, if even one student-led group is already allowed in the school. This is a guaranteed right under the federal Equal Access Act of 1984.

Students can wear T-shirts with religious text. They can wear religious jewellery (buttons, symbols, crosses, stars of David, pentacles, etc).

Students can hand out religious materials.

Although these rights are guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, they are not necessarily granted by school officials automatically. Fortunately, a variety of legal organizations, such as the Rutherford Foundation (http://www.rutherford.org/) can intervene on behalf of students and explain the law to the school administration. These matters are usually cleared up very quickly, because of the wealth of case law supporting student rights. The Rutherford Foundation has stated: “Many cases can be solved with a strong and professional letter from an attorney, a legal memorandum from our office, or a phone call from a staff member.” B.A. Robinson (religioustolerance.org)

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Inplainsite.org Comment: I have been in this country for twelve years and have never ceased to be shocked and amazed at the number of Americans who still fall for the stale and completely asinine ‘Separation Of Church And State’ argument. It is even worse to come across so many that actually believe this phrase is part of the constitution. It Isn’t! And, if you don’t believe me, I suggest you get your self one of those little Pocket Constitution Booklets. Try this web site… https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-pocket-constitution/. You might be surprised.

So, if it isn’t in the constitution, where did the phrase ‘Separation Of Church And State’ originate?

It was taken from an exchange of letters between President Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, shortly after Jefferson became President. The concern of the Danbury Baptists was that the government might someday attempt to regulate religious expression. But as it turned out, Thomas Jefferson had no intention of allowing the government to limit, restrict, regulate, or interfere with public religious practices. He believed, along with the other Founders, that the First Amendment had been enacted only to prevent the federal establishment of a national denomination-a fact he made clear in a letter to fellow-signer of the Declaration of Independence Benjamin Rush. In fact what is truly amazing is that Jefferson’s explanation of his phrase is diametrically opposed to the manner in which courts apply it today. “Separation of church and state” currently means almost exactly the opposite of what it originally meant. [For Details See Separation of Church and State]

Besides which it is ludicrous that prayer has been taken out of schools when there are so many instances where religion and the existence of God are at least given a token tip of the hat by the government. For example:

Each day’s session of the Supreme Court starts with the invocation: “God save the United States and this Honorable Court.”

The National Anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner” contains the words “Praise the Pow’r that hath made and preserved us a nation.”

The National Motto is “In God we Trust.” [See Article]

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag contains the words “one Nation under God, indivisible,

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millertheanunnaki

February 17, 2012 at 11:07 am

@ Amused | February 17, 2012 at 4:08 AM |
“As our whole society, whether it be Barbados, USA, UK, Canada – wherever, is based upon the supreme authority of God (by whatever name He is known) this decision by the UK judge is patent nonsense.”

In case you are not aware, the UK, especially England, is a multi-racial and multi-cultural state; not a theocratic state like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Therefore, people from varying religious persuasion and cultural backgrounds would be involved in and attend public official functions.

The question you need to ask yourself is this: To which god would be the one receiving the praise and glory and listening to our prayers? Would it be done through Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Haile Selassie I, the Hindu gallery of gods and goddesses or any of the range of “holy” and self proclaimed last prophets? Which prayer or religious book would be used as reference to this deity or deities?
What about native Americans and other indigenous people who have their own concept of God?

The best thing to do is to leave religion out of the affairs of government and let the religious houses fulfill that aspect of human life. The judge is ruling as it should be done without fear or favour to any particular interest group but only in the interest of fairness and equity as expressed in the current cultural realities of modern Britain. The Court is NOT allowed to rule based on Race so why rule based on Religion.

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robert ross

February 17, 2012 at 11:30 am

There is so much that is good in these blogs and so much one could address. Let me just say this:-
My belief is that all of us have a more or less conscious sense of religiousness however that actually expresses itself, and that, religiousness, has nothing inevitably to do with organised religion which down the arches of the years has been responsible for so much mayhem and which still comes across as fanciful opiates and thorougoing Phariseeism. Anyone interested in this idea might listen to a programme by an Anglican priest on Faith FM on Tuesday at 9.0pm and Thursday at 5.0pm next week.

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Zoe

February 17, 2012 at 11:57 am

The historic, empirical, logical, verasity of God’s Word, the Bible, stands literally unparalelled with ANY other ancient ‘religious’ document, BAR NONE!

Every ancient, PAGANISTIC civilization, that worshipped FALSE, demonic dieties, ALL came to utter ruination, exactly as as was prophecied by Almighty God’s Word, the Bible. Because HE* IS* the Only, One, True and living God, of Historic, Divine Revelation as contained in His Word.

And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other FALSE, demonic heretical groups, and cults, which have NO part in His True, Redeemed ‘Church’ BUT, those who belong to His ‘Ecclesia’ the called out ones, have confirmed repeatedly, over and over again, by, LOGICAL CONSISTENCY, EMPIRICAL ADEQUACY, and EXPERIENTIAL RELEVANCY, the FACT, of His Word, beginning in the Book of Genesis, and throughout history, right up until TODAY, exactly what HE said, would transpire, culmanating IN* the present world wide chaos, politically, socially, economically, and otherwise, CONFIRMING without fear of contradiction, that HE* Almighty God, and His Son, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, ARE the Only Saviour of mankind, for there NONE other!

All else, contrary to His Omnipotent Word, are utter Demonic falsity, and HOGWASH from the pit of Hell!

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de hood

February 17, 2012 at 3:40 pm

I always wonder why it is that when ever I read something posted by ZOE I usually visualise him standing at a podium with his hands flailing in the air, his hair all disarrayed and sticking out from his head, his eyes all red and watery and last but not least, tons of spittle flying from his mouth. In short, the classic picture of a totally insane (fanatic) individual. 🙂

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chocolate city hussle

February 17, 2012 at 4:33 pm

@TECHNICIAN | February 17, 2012 at 9:58 AM |

i pity blinded people such as u. if u find yourself at death’s door tonight, you will be desperately looking around for someone to pray for you, begging those standing watching you, not to allow you to die. i truly pity you. should you die as you are, whether you accept it or not, you will face eternity WITHOUT God. sure respond to me with your delusional crap but remember you do have a conscious and it DOES tell you that God exist. you have the choice, we all do

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The Scout

February 17, 2012 at 4:41 pm

i would stict to my values, they have proven GOOd for me. Anyone who don’t like my beliefs , soory you have a problem, not me. As far as I’m concerned, the words and predictions in the Bible are coming to pass, Mankind would become lovers of each other, we would see the rejection of the word of God i.e. some become God haters. We see where traditional organisations are denying the use of the bible and prayers,I’m seeing quite recently persons experiencing sudden deaths, you converse with them, while in apparent good health, only to hear within the next hour that person is dead. these are all predictions within the bible, therefore, I’m not surprised at the happenings, just that i must strengthen myself to accept and place more confidence in my TRUE GOD. The day will come when the TRUE BELIEVER in God would have to stand up and pronounce the gospel of Christ and fear not what will happen to them.

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The Scout

February 17, 2012 at 4:48 pm

chocolate city hassle
Quite recently I was at the bedside of one of these people (a man) who didn’t believe in God; I think until then the last time he went to church was at his baptism. If you wanted to hear this man curse really bad, tell him about going to church. I witness at his death bedside, him calling for someone to come and pray for him before he passed. The plea was so ernest, that made me more convinced that there is a life after this and the preparation for how we spend that future life depends on how we live this one.

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islandgal246

February 17, 2012 at 5:19 pm

Will Christians be offended if I pray openly to my Non Christian God at meal times, at the start of any occasion when someone requests a prayer?

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David

February 17, 2012 at 5:27 pm

@islandgal

Where is the logic in your question?

Do non believers believe?

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islandgal246

February 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm

David,

I have never said that I don’t believe in a creator, I do not believe in the Christian concept of the Godman called Jesus Christ. Like I have said before I do not follow the Christian faith and I do not believe in the Bible.

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Zoe

February 17, 2012 at 11:37 pm

In light of the following FACTS re the persecution of Christians, throughout the non-Christian, Islamic et al nations of the world, I challenge the ‘Scoffers’ and ‘Mockers’ of Christians, to cite ONE, democratic, Western nation, where Muslims, Hindu’s Buddists, et al religious people live peacefully, are IN any way treated or persecuted by these Christian oriented countries like Christians ARE in these other countries as cited below?

The Final Hour
Chronicling World Events As Humanity Enters History’s Darkest Hour

Friday, February 6, 2009Christianity – The Most Persecuted Religion In The Entire World

“Our previous article entitled “It Has Become Fashionable To Mock Christians” examined the rising tide of Christian persecution in western countries such as the U.S., Canada and the United Kingdom. If you have not read that article yet, please do so. Hatred towards Christianity is rising and it is rising fast.”

“But most people are not aware that already Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the entire world. It is illegal or severely restricted in 51 different countries. Fundamentalist Muslim nations, fanatical Hindu countries and hardline Communist regimes are not shy about their hatred for Christianity.”

“Christians in the United States do not realize how easy they have had it. In many areas of the world following Christ means paying a high price – and often the price a believer must pay is with their life.”

“For example, Iran’s parliament has passed a new law which makes it illegal for a Muslim to become a Christian, and that any Muslim that does become a Christian must be executed.”

“In many areas of India, Christians who try to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ are regularly attacked by Hindu extremists.”

“The following is a recent example of this persecution that was emailed to us by The Voice Of The Martyrs:”

—–

“On April 25, Pastor Mohan Babu and two other believers were severely beaten by 35 Hindu extremists for holding a Vacation Bible School (VBS) near Bangalore City, in Karnataka State. According to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts in India, the three-day VBS was organized by Ragigudda Baptist Church. VOM sources said, “Around 60 children from different backgrounds were attending the VBS. As they were worshiping, about 35 people belonging to a Hindu extremist group forcefully entered the hut chanting slogans and demolished the hut. The extremists mercilessly beat Mohan, Samuel and Krishna, alleging forceful conversion. The perpetrators chased the children without any courtesy and tore the Bibles. Mohan was severely injured on his lips and was profusely bleeding. The believers are living in fear and did not lodge complaint with the police.” Pray for healing for all those injured in this attack. Pray they forgive their attackers and for the children who were attending VBS to continue growing in their faith despite the attack.”

—–

“Unfortunately, the persecution of Christians in India has gotten worse as 4 more churches in eastern India have been burnt and thousands of people have been driven from their homes.”

“But it is not just in a few areas where Christians are persecuted. It is truly a worldwide phenomenon…..”

* It has been estimated that more Christians were martyred in the 20th Century than in the previous 1,900 years combined.

* There were more than 26 million documented cases of martyrdom in the 20th century alone.

* More than 200 million Christians in over 60 nations face persecution each day, and it is estimated that over half of these are children.

* It is estimated that between 150,000 and 165,000 Christians are martyred each year.

The following is a partial list of countries where Christians are currently being persecuted:

China
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“Widespread persecution of church leaders and members, especially those in unregistered (underground) churches, which may represent as many as 100 million believers.”

Indonesia
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“Militant Muslims have waged periodic Jihad (‘Holy War’) against Christian communities in the Molucca Islands and Sulawesi. Over 600 churches have been destroyed since 1996.”

Nigeria
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“The imposition of Islamic Sharia law in more than 10 states has caused thousands of Christians to flee, and has exacerbated differences between the predominantly Christian south and the Islamic north.”

North Korea
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“Over 100,000 people, including many Christians, are believed to be imprisoned in North Korea’s barbaric death camps. The brutal dictatorship of Kim Jong Il suppresses all religious activities, and imposes a personality cult based around the ‘Great Leader’.”

Pakistan
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“Pakistan’s poorly-drafted 295c blasphemy laws, which carry the death penalty for ‘blaspheming Mohammed’, have been misused against Christians and other minorities. Militant Muslims are increasingly attacking churches and Christian organizations.”

Sudan
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“Famine and the long-running civil war between the Muslim North and Christian/animist South have led to over two million deaths in the last two decades. Thousands of Southern Sudanese have been literally enslaved after being seized in government raids.”

Cuba
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“The church was initially persecuted by the Communist regime of Fidel Castro, when church leaders were sent to labour camps. Christians now enjoy greater freedom, although house churches are still subject to repression.”

Colombia
Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

“Pastors have been targeted by guerrilla movements such as FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia), with 400 churches being forced to close in areas under the control of armed groups. Christians have also been killed for speaking out against violence and the widespread drug trade.”

Morocco
Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

“Anyone converting to Christianity can face charges of treachery and illegal contact with foreign missions. A small Moroccan church is emerging, estimated to number some 500 indigenous believers in 2000.”

Mauritania
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“Islam is the state religion, and conversion from Islam is strictly forbidden. The Catholic Church is the only recognised religious group outside of Islam. Sharia law is intermittently applied.”

Algeria
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“In recent years Christians have been attacked by the Islamic Salvation Front, and Islamic fundamentalists are pushing for the implementation of Sharia law.”

Libya
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Sunni Islam is the state religion, but secular influences are strong. There are very few Libyan Christian believers. There is a limit of one church per denomination per city.”

Egypt
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“The constitution gives preference to Muslims, and Christians are often treated as second-class citizens, denied political representation and discriminated against in employment. The Egyptian Coptic Church is by far the largest body of Christians in the Middle East.”

Somalia
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“The small Somali church has been driven underground, and exists mainly in the south. A number of believers have been martyred, others have been publicly named as targets for execution.”

Turkey
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“The Christian Population has declined from 22 per cent in 1900 to 0.32 per cent today. There is increasing openness by the government to recognise Turkey as a multi-cultural, multi-religious country. Periodic acts of violence against non-Muslim institutions.”

Syria
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Christian minorities are tolerated and have freedom to worship and witness within their own community, but all activities that could threaten the government or communal harmony are carefully watched.”

Kuwait
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Christians are free to live and work in Kuwait, but must worship in a recognized location. Evangelism to Kuwaitis is forbidden.”

Saudi Arabia
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“Saudi Arabia is the guardian of Islam’s two holiest sites, Mecca and Medina. Any citizen who converts from Islam to another religion faces the death penalty. Islamic Sharia law is the main source of legislation.”

Qatar
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Criticism of the ruling family monarchy or Islam is a crime. However expatriate believers are allowed to practice their faith.”

Yemen
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“It is illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity, and those Yemenis who do face many social pressures. Most Christians in the country are expatriates, many being Ethiopian refugees.”

Oman
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Churches and church activities for expatriates are allowed, but evangelism of Muslims is forbidden. There is a handful of indigenous believers.”

United Arab Emirates (UAE)
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Islam is the state religion. Expatriate Christians, representing many different language groups, have freedom to worship and witness to their faith.”

Iran
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“Shi’a Islam is the state religion. Conversion from Islam to another faith is a capital crime. There is a ban on the printing of all Christian literature, and constant surveillance of churches and those who attend them.”

Iraq
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“After the fall of Saddam Hussein, members of underground churches are struggling to practice their faith. The Christian community is largely Assyrian, with some Armenians. About one-third of all Christians fled Iraq in the 1990s.”

Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS)
Religious Freedom Rating: 4-7 (7 is worst)

“The CIS comprises Russia and 11 other republics that were formerly part of the Soviet Union, including Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Christians face harassment and repression from both old-guard Communists, and Islamic militants.”

Afghanistan
Religious Freedom Rating: na (7 is worst)

“Public persecution of Christians has once again emerged, and Christians still face constant harassment from militant Muslims.”

Nepal
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“Militant Hindus are targeting Christians with hostile propaganda and violence; while Maoist guerrillas, who control one-fifth of the country, have also attacked Christians.”

India
Religious Freedom Rating: 5 (7 is worst)

“States such as Orissa and Gujarat have been racked by violence as radical Hindus have attacked Christian communities. Six Indian states have passed anti-conversion laws that impose prison terms and fines against anyone using force, fraud or allurement to convert another.”

Bangladesh
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“Islam is the state religion, and radical Muslims are pushing for the introduction of full Islamic Sharia law. Hindus, Christians and Buddhists have all experienced religious discrimination and attacks by militant Muslims.”

Sri Lanka
Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

“Buddhism is given the ‘foremost place’ in the Constitution. Militant Buddhists have increasingly instigated mob violence against evangelical Christians in rural areas. 65 churches were attacked in 2003.”

Bhutan
Religious Freedom Rating: 6 (7 is worst)

“All public worship and evangelism by non-Buddhists is illegal. The king wields absolute power, and there are no legal guarantees on freedom of religion.”

Burma (Myanmar)
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“The State Peace and Development Council attempts to control every religious activity. All gatherings of five or more people are illegal. Ethnic minorities, such as the Karen, have been targets of repression.”

Malaysia
Religious Freedom Rating: 4 (7 is worst)

“Although the constitution guarantees religious freedom, fundamentalist Muslims do everything in their power politically to inhibit Christian evangelism. Ethnic Malays are not allowed to have a Christian place of worship.”

Laos
Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

“Communist leaders in some districts have implemented a program called ‘New Mechanism’ in which anyone who does not convert to Buddhism or animism is forcibly removed from their district. Christian villagers have been forced to sign documents renouncing their faith.”

Eritrea
Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

“Evangelical Christians have come under increasing pressure. Only four religious groups are allowed to hold public meetings: Muslims, Catholics, Orthodox and Lutheran. Evangelical Christians have been imprisoned.”

Maldives
Religious Freedom Rating: n/a (7 is worst)

“This popular holiday destination in the Indian Ocean hides a repressive regime. Free speech is not respected for the press or non-Muslim religions. In 1998 all known Maldivian Christians were arrested.”

Tibet
Religious Freedom Rating: 7 (7 is worst)

“Christians find themselves caught between pressure from both Buddhism and Chinese communism. In 1999 the Chinese Communist Party in Lhasa decreed that atheism is necessary to promote economic development in the region, and to assist the struggle against the Dalai Lama (who fled in 1959).”

“Most Western Christians truly have NO IDEA what life has been like for some Christians in other areas of the world.”

The following extraordinary story of Christian persecution is from The Voice Of The Martyrs:

—–

“Pastor Florescu couldn’t bear to watch his son being beaten by the Communist officers. He had already been beaten himself, and he had not slept for two weeks for fear of being attacked by the starving rats the Communists had forced into his prison cell. The Romanian police wanted Florescu to give up other members of his underground church so that they, too, could be captured.”

“Seeing that the beatings and torture weren’t working, the Communists brought in Florescu’s son Alexander, only fourteen years old, and began to beat the boy. While Florescu watched, they hammered his son’s body unmercifully, telling the pastor that they would beat his son to death unless he told them the locations of other believers.”

“Finally, half mad, Florescu screamed for them to stop.”

“Alexander, I must say what they want!” he called out to his son. “I can’t bear your beatings anymore.”

“His body bruised, blood running from his nose and mouth, Alexander looked his father in the eye. “Father, don’t do me the injustice of having a traitor as a parent. Stand strong! If they kill me, I will die with the word Jesus on my lips.”

“The boy’s courage enraged the Communist guards, and they beat him to death as his father watched. Not only did he hold on to his faith, he helped his father do the same.”

—–

“But perhaps you don’t think it could happen in the United States?”

“Just check out this stunning footage of a mob assaulting a Christian woman and stomping on a cross:”

“Sometimes the persecution is more subtle. A federal judge has ruled that the University of California can deny course credit to applicants from Christian high schools whose textbooks teach that God created the world. Is that not intense pressure on Christian high schools in California to compromise on their beliefs?”

So what should we make of this?

Should we be surprised at this persecution?

The truth is that we should expect persecution.

In John 15:18, Jesus told us that those who believe in Him would be hated…..

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.”

“The reality is that we are in the world but we are not of the world.”

“Our home is with the Lord, and while we are here we are in a battle to rescue as many lost souls as we can.”

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David

February 18, 2012 at 12:54 am

@islandgal

David,

I have never said that I don’t believe in a creator, I do not believe in the Christian concept of the Godman called Jesus Christ. Like I have said before I do not follow the Christian faith and I do not believe in the Bible.

Can you expand? Are you saying you believe in a creator but do not believe in the medium of prayer?

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old onion bags

February 18, 2012 at 7:37 am

Onions can’t believe Zoe would post something so loooooooonnnnnnnnnnng in here..Fa real David…you can’t speak to Zoe ?
Is most inconsiderate cuz Zoe know nobody could read dat…

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Amused

February 18, 2012 at 9:20 am

I think the whole concept of prayers as a part of our national life is well established. I agree that those who do not choose to participate ought to have the courtesy simply to be silent and allow those who do choose to participate in this age-old tradition to do their own thing. I too am amazed by the number of non-believers who, faced with evidence of their mortality, immediately summon a priest. Maybe they are not that sure that God doesn’t exist and are hedging their bets, just in case. Which is hypocritical. But I am sure that God (at least the one I believe in) being a God of Love, will not abandon them or penalise them.

What I find confusing is that in this case a court has ruled that prayers as part of an agenda for council meetings is illegal and that, in England. I can readily understand Her Majesty’s dismay, quite apart from the fact that she is head of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith. The courts take their authority directly from her, as do all public bodies (simplistically, the Royal Mail). In her Diamond Jubilee year, the court ruling is even more silly, as the UK National Anthem will likely be performed many times as a part of the “agendas” of public functions. This is an anthem in which, in its shortened version, God is named three (03) times. It starts, “God save our gracious Queen”.

On the subject of immigrant religions in the UK, I would observe that the practitioners of those asked to be in the UK and swore to uphold its laws and customs (of which God is a part). If they find this to be an insufferable hardship, maybe they ought to leave, as it seems to me they are foresworn in their oaths taken when they received citizenship. I have checked this out and can confirm that a part of the citizenship ceremony for UK citizenship involves the singing of God save the Queen.

As far as Barbados is concerned, we are a very religious society in which most citizens and Christians of one denomination or another. I agree with the Australian PM’s invitation to immigrants into Australia who have to problem with our Bajan laws and customs. Here is the report:

“Prime Minister Julia Gillard- Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote:

‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘

‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!’

‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’

‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’”

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millertheanunnaki

February 18, 2012 at 12:11 pm

@ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM |
“The courts take their authority directly from her, as do all public bodies (simplistically, the Royal Mail).”

If I were you I would not dabble in matters you know very little about. Your writing amusingly indicates very limited knowledge of modern Britain. The Monarchy has NO power as far the Judiciary and Executive are concerned.
The monarchy is just a “titular” institution primarily existing for traditional and ceremonial purposes and to be a major tourist attraction.
As far as morality is concerned the royal family are in no position to rule or dictate. Britain is NOT Barbados living in a 19th Century bubble or cocoon of moral hypocrisy and double standards.
King Henry V111 had many wives and some of them were executed at his request. Today, he would be considered a serial killer. King James was known to prefer the company of men but yet Bajans still cling to the book commissioned by him to rule on moral issues and sexual orientation. Incidentally this same book was described by the current head of the Monarchy as ‘an excellent piece of English prose’ and not as Bajans so stupidly describe it as the “Word of God”.

“ Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.”

For you to repeat this kind of jingoistic crap shows how little you know about the settlement of Australasia over the last 200 years or so. Australia was settled primarily by ex-convicts and criminals from the British Isles. These settlers along with the capitalist businessmen stole by force of arms the lands belonging to the indigenous people, the Aborigines, who suffered dearly from this invasion. Even today, these ‘original’ people are at the bottom of the socio-economic pole with very little hope or opportunity to escape the ravages of poverty, alcoholism and drug dependency. A fate similar to that suffered by the native people of North America at the hands of the same “Christian” European invaders you so ignorantly hold up as paragons of virtue spreading the “holy” word of God to primitive and backward species. If these savages can’t be wiped out by bullets, converted to our “religion” like the stupid African slaves then we will destroy their livelihood by wiping the bison from the face of the plains. What a holy band of Christians exploiting, pillaging and killing in the name of Jesus!

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zion1971

February 18, 2012 at 3:12 pm

Australians PM talking one load of crap. They stole the aboriginese land. What sanctimonious balloney. For she not to see the irony and hypocracy in her statement is unbelievable.

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Amused

February 18, 2012 at 4:52 pm

@millertheanunnaki | February 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM. Really. Very interesting. I am amused to be instructed on how the UK Constitution works. The Queen actually has a great deal of power in the UK. She rarely expresses an opinion, but when she does, because of her standing (not simply because she is monarch, but due to her service to that country and her tremendous personal popularity) it is the last word – and that, I suspect, is what has got up your nose. That the UK is a “constitutional monarchy” every idiot knows, including you, it seems. However, the idea that the Queen is without power is just plain silly. She stands in the position that denies ultimate power to those elected officials who might misuse it in the UK. And she has been very careful never to misuse her power. However you may choose to interpret the role of a constitutional monarch, that is the practicality of the situation.

I don’t understand your points about Australia or Australasia. They have developed a way of life and a society in which the majority agree with their PM. And I agree with their PM. I don’t care what, centuries ago, may have been the been the circumstances. I am concerned with the circumstances today. I relate it to Barbados. You, from what you have said, would not agree at all, but I STRONGLY object to persons or groups of persons coming in here by immigration and then trying to curtail our social customs and practices and to force their own down our throats. So, I agree completely with the views of the Australian PM. Why in hell should Bajans be forced to forego the customs and practices that define us as Bajan in order to espouse the customs and practices of others who have come to our shores, simply because those shores are preferable to them than the ones on which they were born?

Now, you can be as specious and pedantic as you like, but the fact is that we are a Christian society with a culture that is identifiably Bajan. Australia of today is the same. If people come to our country to live, then they are best to consider whether they can do so within our parameters and in peaceful coexistence with Bajans and respect for the precedence of our society and customs. If not, please leave and find somewhere more socially confused – like Canada.

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millertheanunnaki

February 18, 2012 at 5:39 pm

@ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 4:52 PM |
“You, from what you have said, would not agree at all, but I STRONGLY object to persons or groups of persons coming in here by immigration and then trying to curtail our social customs and practices and to force their own down our throats.”

Bloody amusing fool! It not what the British did to the indigenous people of Australia? Only if the Aborigines and the native Americans had followed your advice!

What red herring are you coming with about immigration in Barbados. People coming to Bim to settle are not doing it by ‘force and with arms’. They are allowed to stay here by the law or by bribery of the political and bureaucratic officials. It’s a sad reflection of a society when officials are easily bribed or its values and mores are so vulnerable as to be overtaken by a transported culture of an immigrant minority. That is why people like you need to take stock of what is going on in places where this “foreign” culture is taking root rapidly in places like Kensington New Road, if you dare to do. If you are not happy with the laws then change the Constitution and only allow people that meet your biased and bigoted requirements to settle as it prevailed in the same Australia even up to the 1970’s – NO People of African descent allowed to settled permanently ,with a few exceptions (honorary whites).

By the way and for your information, Barbados is NOT a Christian Society but a Secular One where people of varying or no faith can live side by side. If Barbados was a truly Christian society then we would not have so many single parent households, teenage pregnancies, 20% of people living below the poverty line, HIV/AIDS, homosexuality, prostitution, drug addiction, gambling, lying by politicians, crime and last but not least commercialized Christianity and the prosperity gospel.

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Hants

February 18, 2012 at 5:45 pm

I hope Barbados does not follow the lead of the UK and Canada.

Immigrants should be allowed to practice their religions only if it is within the laws and norms of the Country.

Why can’t Muslims and non believers wait outside the council chambers until the end of “Christian prayers”?

I is a Bajan. I live in Canada and I don’t spit in the street or pee behind de palin.

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David

February 18, 2012 at 5:50 pm

The ethos which pervades the BU household is defined by those adults who are members of the household i.e. husband, wide, children and immediate offspring

Those who visit or are invited must be guided accordingly.

No one comes into the BU household and disrespect what defines who and what we are.

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David

February 18, 2012 at 6:04 pm

BU words have not fallen to the ground:

Council ‘prayer ban’ overturned

Sat Feb 18 2012 11:02

© REUTERS/Andrew Winning

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has made moves to overturn a High Court decision banning councils from holding prayers before meetings.

The court ruled last week that local authorities could not hold prayers during meetings, sparking fierce debate between Christian activists claiming the religious values of the UK were being eroded, and campaigners who say Britain is no longer a religious country, and such traditions are outdated and discriminatory.

Mr Pickles now says he is “effectively reversing” the judgment, however, fast-tracking the implementation of a general power of competence – contained in last year’s Localism Act – enabling councils to do anything an individual can do that is not illegal.

He has said he hopes this will render the High Court ruling – which followed objections to prayers at Bideford Town Council in Devon – irrelevant.

The National Secular Society and an atheist ex-councillor had argued that Bideford council was acting unlawfully by putting prayers on meeting agendas, a complaint which was effectively upheld by the court, which ruled that councils lacked power under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972 to hold prayers “as part of a formal local authority meeting”.

Mr Pickles said: “The High Court judgment has far wider significance than just the municipal agenda of Bideford Town Council.

“By effectively reversing that illiberal ruling, we are striking a blow for localism over central interference, for freedom to worship over intolerant secularism, for Parliamentary sovereignty over judicial activism, and for long-standing British liberties over modern-day political correctness.”

He went on: “Last week’s case should be seen as a wake-up call. For too long, the public sector has been used to marginalise and attack faith in public life, undermining the very foundations of the British nation. But this week, the tables have been turned.”

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millertheanunnaki

February 18, 2012 at 6:08 pm

Hants | February 18, 2012 at 5:45 PM |
“Immigrants should be allowed to practice their religions only if it is within the laws and norms of the Country.”

Agree! One cannot find fault with this position. The same way you would have to obey the perceived ‘draconian laws’ that you and any female partner of yours must adhere to in Saudi Arabia. No consumption of pork products, no alcohol consumption, “pokey” unless married under Islamic law, no holding hands in public and your partner must partially cover her face and can’t drive a vehicle or walk next to you.

“Why can’t Muslims and non believers wait outside the council chambers until the end of “Christian prayers?”

The same way the following question can be posed to people like you.
Why can’t Christians prayer outside or in another room before the Council meeting?
Neither Canada, UK or Barbados is a theocratic State. They are all secular so religion must not be mixed with government or political processes.
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s!” Sounds familiar?

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Amused

February 18, 2012 at 6:20 pm

@millertheanunnaki | February 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM. Suggest, fool, that you try to discover, if you are capable that is, were you actually stand and stop contradicting yourself. Barbados is a Christian society and culture. Ever heard of “majority rule”, jackass? So why the hell should the majority who wish to ask the guidance of the Almighty have to go and do it in another room because you have an axe to grind, because you don’t believe in God and think that no one else should be allowed to? Either leave the room until the prayers are over, or be respectfully silent while the will of the majority is carried out.

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millertheanunnaki

February 18, 2012 at 7:40 pm

@ Amused | February 18, 2012 at 6:20 PM |
“Barbados is a Christian society and culture.”

True to form , Amused. Don’t attack me counter my arguments!
In what way is Barbados a ‘Christian society and culture’? Do you think that attending religious houses make you ‘christian’?

When was Barbados ever a ‘christian’ place? Go tell that to the African slaves that were brought here between 1680 and 1812. Oh, what “christian” treatment was meted out to them! And what about the blacks who had to live under a veritable system of apartheid and subjugation? Could not attend churches (ask Sarah Ann Gill if you can), could not marry or vote; not even own land or conduct trade; just be part of the horrid plantation system to make other people rich in order to make large bequeaths to the Church in the form of Glebe land and property.
Deny that if you can!

BTW, who is the Almighty? Jesus, Allah, Muhammad, Buddha, Vishnu, Shiva, Yahweh?
You bigoted, blinkered, myopic person, no different from those Islamic fundamentalists. Next minute you would want to send me to Hell by burning me at the stake- not even a mock trial at thee Court of Inquisition. Now let the SUN shine in your eyes and get a planetary perspective on life and you would become enlightened not confined to your Judeo-Christian cocoon: As the ad goes : “the Sun shines upon all of us!”

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Hants

February 18, 2012 at 7:53 pm

millertheanunnaki wrote “Why can’t Christians prayer outside or in another room before the Council meeting?”

The Christians are in their own country and their religion has been Christianity.
New immigrants bringing new religions cannot over rule the majority.

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millertheanunnaki

February 18, 2012 at 8:11 pm

@ Hants | February 18, 2012 at 7:53 PM |

You are missing the point, Hants. Council meetings are NOT about religious matters but are about secular affairs of the jurisdiction. Why the need for common prayer? God is NOT interested in whether a contract for the construction of a road should be given to a supporter of the ruling party.
Only if the road would benefit the residents and does nor despoil the environment. You get my drift, sonny? Please understand the meaning of the reference to the “things that are of Caesar (Worldly) and those that are of God (Spiritual).

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harry

February 19, 2012 at 5:34 pm

the wicked rule this world.
they are the devils people.
of course they don’t want to prey
or have god in schools.
or any where because money is the root of all evil and in this 2012.
living in a system ruled by money .
the devils are getting a stronghold.
without all the long talk.
the devils people rule this world.
is it not plain to see??????????

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harry

February 19, 2012 at 7:37 pm

http://youtu.be/EewGMBOB4Gg

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harry

February 19, 2012 at 7:39 pm

watch link to movie above and all will be answered for you.

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islandgal246

February 19, 2012 at 7:56 pm

“of course they don’t want to prey”

Harry Harry quite contrary
It’s PRAY and not prey

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islandgal246

February 19, 2012 at 8:08 pm

Millerthewise……….Until Black people understand their history they will continue to practice their oppressor’s religion. How can someone call a religion that was forced on their ancestors their culture? How can anyone accept a GOD that was forced upon them as theirs. Are we so brainwashed that we cannot see and understand this? This religion called Christianity has enslaved us further to continue giving the descendants of our oppressors power over us. We will never be FREE thinkers with this weight around our necks.

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harry

February 20, 2012 at 7:16 am

i think you know what i mean don’t you.island girl
or is it a pun. you figure it out.

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harry

February 20, 2012 at 7:20 am

black peoples history is Africa it is the only place you can find your roots.
please return there.
it would solve all your problems.
noted that the English whom enslaved Irish and Scottish before any African
now own and are buying back your island.
how ironic.

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David

February 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm

What is and what isn’t. What about the gospels left out of the bible?

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millertheanunnaki

February 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm

@ David | February 20, 2012 at 1:10 PM |

Only goes to show that the Judeo-Christian religious texts are not the “Word of God” but the writings of religious scholars and catholic politicians and zealots parading as god’s representatives on Earth. I have been to the Basilica and the Sistine Chapel and all I saw were images of the worship of “Sol Invictus”.

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David

February 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm

Hi Zoe

Your comment is valued here.

What about the Gospel of Philip?

Why ascribe the Gospels to men when there is no proof they wrote them?

Why allow the real reason Constantinople used relation to fly under the radar?

Why, why,why!

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millertheanunnaki

February 20, 2012 at 4:19 pm

Zoe, We want to her from you and the other fanatics (fans) who continuously spew forth the tripe that the ‘Bible’ in the Word of the living God even if the Chinese or Indians don’t give two hoots about your gods.

Get real people, you all have been hoodwinked! Go live in Britain for a short while and you would see Christianity at it best. Remember this is the country that indoctrinated you lot with religious serum and the opiate of the slave-minded.

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Zoe

February 20, 2012 at 7:48 pm

@Nukai/Ralian and all other IGNORANT ‘Scoffers’ I challenge you to historically, cogently, logically, legally, coherently and empirically, to refute confute, the salient assertions I made below a few days ago, instead of your UTTERLY INCOHERENT, callow, incognizant, inconversant, uninformed, Worldview, HOGWASH, folly and benigned FOOLISHNESS!

Zoe | February 17, 2012 at 11:57 AM |
“The historic, empirical, logical, verasity of God’s Word, the Bible, stands literally unparalelled with ANY other ancient ‘religious’ document, BAR NONE!”

“Every ancient, PAGANISTIC civilization, that worshipped FALSE, demonic dieties, ALL came to utter ruination, exactly as as was prophecied by Almighty God’s Word, the Bible. Because HE* IS* the Only, One, True and living God, of Historic, Divine Revelation as contained in His Word.”

“And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other FALSE, demonic heretical groups, and cults, which have NO part in His True, Redeemed ‘Church’ BUT, those who belong to His ‘Ecclesia’ the called out ones, have confirmed repeatedly, over and over again, by, LOGICAL CONSISTENCY, EMPIRICAL ADEQUACY, and EXPERIENTIAL RELEVANCY, the FACT, of His Word, beginning in the Book of Genesis, and throughout history, right up until TODAY, exactly what HE said, would transpire, culmanating IN* the present world wide chaos, politically, socially, economically, and otherwise, CONFIRMING without fear of contradiction, that HE* Almighty God, and His Son, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, ARE the Only Saviour of mankind, for there NONE other!”

“All else, contrary to His Omnipotent Word, are utter Demonic falsity, and HOGWASH from the pit of Hell!”

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Zoe

February 20, 2012 at 8:14 pm

It is interesting, and significant, that every year around Easter and Christmas, our Head of State, our Governor General, PMs both BLP and DLP, as well as Opposition Leaders, invariably make specific referrence TO the Bible, God’s Word, and Our lord and Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Because, they all recognize, whether nominally, or by personal Christian conviction, that HE* IS, and has been our guide, protector, and sustainer, as did the US Presidents of old, as demonstrated below!

What Does Separation of Church & State Really Mean?Posted: June 22, 2011 in Politics, Religion

Tags: First Amendment to the United States Constitution, God, Politics, Separation of Church & State, United States Bill of Rights The words, “Separation of Church & State” are not in the Bill of Rights or in any other founding document of this country. It is merely a paraphrase of Article 1 of the Bill of Rights. Liberal Progressives use the paraphrase of the actual article because it suits their purposes better. This article will put to bed every argument that says that the “Separation of Church & State” Clause, or properly, the Bill of Rights: Article 1, means no mention or display of “God” in public forums. If we allow our judges to legislate from the bench, our country will be doomed to failure & tyranny.

There is no Separation of Church & State

In 1791, only 15 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed, our founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights. Amendment 1 is the clause describing the “Separation of Church & State”. It is the most abused right in our nation today. Not because our nation has ever broken it, but because it is consistently misrepresented and misinterpreted by those who wish to destroy religion in America. Including our judges.

Bill of Rights (1791)
Amendment I

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and
to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

There is absolutely nothing in this clause that states that Christianity should be removed from Congress. Nor does it say that God is not the Ruler of our nation. Nor does it say that religious statements can’t be made in government or public forums. It said that Congress make not create a LAW establishing a national religion and that Congress may not restrict anyone’s practice of their religion. The latest scourge of our time, progressivism, continues to violate this right every day. They are attempting to deny the right of all people to practice Christianity in congress, in courthouses and in schools. If we, the PEOPLE, wish to see ‘God’ on our money, on our Court House, on our Congressional Floor, then we can. This is our RIGHT. Further, if Congress prohibits us from doing so, then it is in direct violation of this first Amendment! We are living in opposite world, here, people. Claim your right and if necessary, FIGHT for it.

Now, forget those legalities for a minute and observe the actions and statements of our founding fathers for further proof of their intentions when writing that first amendment.

In 1782, The United States Congress printed the first American Bible for the use of soldiers & school chilren:

“The first English Bible printed in this country, as well as the first Bible to
be recommended to the people by the Congress of the United States, was
relatively small in dimensions. It measured but five and five-eighths inches by
three and one-eighth inches. Printed in brevier type on American-made paper, it
contained 726 leaves (1,452 pages). It is considered to be an excellent piece of printing with remarkably few divided words and with pages unmarred by “rivers” of blank space.”

The founding document of our nation, The Declaration of Independence, validates the morality of the colonies’ rebellion through the principles of GOD:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..”

Now, let’s consider the words which fell from their very lips:

John Adams

“I Pray Heaven to Bestow The Best of Blessing on THIS HOUSE, and on ALL that shall hereafter Inhabit it. May none but Honest and Wise Men ever rule under This Roof!”-John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, November 2, 1800

Ben Franklin

“All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?”-Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

Thomas Jefferson

“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed
their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these
liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his
wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.”-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781

James Madison

“It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it [the
Constitution] a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution.”-James Madison, Federalist No. 37, January 11, 1788

Thomas Paine

“But where says some is the King of America? I’ll tell you Friend, he reigns
above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal Brute of Britain…let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America THE LAW IS KING.”-Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

George Washington

“I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.”-George Washington, circular letter of farewell to the Army,
June 8, 1783

’nuff said, People.

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Zoe

February 20, 2012 at 8:44 pm

“What Effect Did the Council of Nicea Have on Determining What Books Belonged in the Bible? There have been accusations that the council of Nicea had a tremendous effect on both choosing what books should be in the Bible and changing some of the doctrines that the church held before that time.” NONSENSE! Never happened!

“The council of Nicea met in A.D. 323 to discuss how Jesus Christ was related to God. There were some in the church, led by Arius of Alexandria, who denied that Jesus Christ was God in human flesh, the Second Person of the Trinity. In order to answer these issues, the church had to make a pronouncement about which books authoritative doctrine could be based on.”

“The council of Nicea did NOT meet to discuss which books belonged in the New Testament canon. It only recognized the books that the church had from the beginning considered to be the Word of God.”

Already Composed

“The books that were recognized as Scripture had already been composed at the time. All the books contained in the New Testament were composed before the end of the first century. Some fifty existing papyrus manuscripts written before A.D. 325 contain parts of every book of the New Testament except 1 Timothy.”

“There is NO truth to the argument, so often brought up, that some of these books were not in existence until the council of Nicea. The argument, therefore, that certain doctrines were invented at this time has no basis in fact.”

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David

February 20, 2012 at 8:49 pm

@Zoe

The argument put forward in the video has to do with WHY certain books were omitted from the bible;

Why certain books were ascribed to certain Apostles even though there was no evidence to support they wrote the books; and

the fact the Constantine saw religion as unifying the Roman Empire, i.e. it was political and this is why Christianity gained popularity.

Answer to the issues on the table.

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Zoe

February 20, 2012 at 9:16 pm

“What about Other Books that Claim Biblical Authority? Throughout the history of the church many documents surfaced that claimed to have been written by the apostles or those intimately familiar with the life of Christ. However these works were written by someone other than the named author. These fraudulent works are known as the pseudepigrapha (forgeries). They are also known as apocryphal works, and were rejected by all. The early church father, Eusebius, called these books “totally absurd and impious.” Over three hundred different works that fit into this category have been catalogued.”

Other Gospels

“Among the forgeries were a large number of apocryphal or false gospels. Origen, a third century writer, testified to the existence of other gospels when he wrote, “There are many who have tried to write gospels, but not all have been accepted.”

The biblical scholar Edwin Yamauchi offers an appropriate comment:

“The apocryphal gospels are non-canonical writings of a motley variety about the purported deeds and revelations of Jesus Christ. Though the Greek word apocrypha originally meant “hidden,” the church fathers used it to describe spurious writings foisted as gospels. Irenaeus refers to ‘an unspeakable number of apocryphal and spurious writings, which they themselves (i. e. the heretics) had forged to bewilder the minds of the foolish.’ Although some of them were patterned after the canonical gospels, many bear little resemblance to them. As Origen noted, The Church possesses four Gospels, heresy a great many’ (Edwin M. Yamauchi, “The Word From Nag Hammadi,” Christianity Today, January 13, 1978, p. 19).

Gnostic Influence

“Many of these works were influenced by gnosticism. The word gnostic means “one who has knowledge.” The gnostics taught that salvation came by secret knowledge of God. The gnostic view of God is contrary to the Bible. In addition, the gnostics considered that all matter is evil.”

“An example of gnostic writing can be found in the Gospel of Philip. The original Gospel of Philip was probably written sometime during the second century A.D. The influence of gnosticism and its emphasis on secret knowledge can be clearly seen in this work. The Gospel of Philip reads,”

“The Logos said: If you know the truth the truth will make you free. Ignorance is a slave, knowledge is freedom. When we recognize the truth we shall find the fruits of truth in our hearts. If we unite with it, we will bring our fulfillment.”

Different Level

Other statements show that they are on a different level than Scripture.

“A Gentile man does not die, for he has never lived that he should die. Adam came into being from two virgins, from the Spirit and from the virgin earth. Because of this Christ was born of a virgin, in order that he might set in order the stumbling which came to pass at the beginning.”

These fanciful statements betray their non-biblical source.

Second-Hand Sources

“The pseudepigrapha, apart from being forgeries, were also written long after, in some cases hundreds of years after, the New Testament events. The writers were not eyewitnesses to the life of Christ or to the events of the early church. This is another reason to reject the testimony which they give.”

Gospel of Thomas

“One of the most prominent of all the forgeries is the Gospel of Thomas. The Gospel of Thomas was probably composed in Edessa in Syria about A.D. 140. Consisting of 114 sayings of Jesus, it is the most extensive collection of non-biblical sayings of Jesus that still exist. The Gospel of Thomas begins as follows:”

“These are the secret words which the living Jesus spoke and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote. And He said: Whosoever finds the explanation of these words shall not taste death.”

We know that the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery for the following reasons:

Incorrect Name

“The author is not Thomas. Whoever wrote the Gospel of Thomas used the incorrect name when referring to the Apostle Thomas as Didymus Judas Thomas. In the four Gospels, Thomas is referred to as either Didymus or Thomas, not both at once. Didymus is the word for “twin” in both Greek and Aramaic, so the author of the Gospel of Thomas must not have been aware of this linguistic connotation.”

Secret Approach

“The secret approach found in the Gospel of Thomas is typical of the writings of the gnostics. The four Gospels are open about the ways of salvation and the kingdom of God while the Gospel of Thomas views truth from a hidden vantage point.”

“There is no historical setting for the statements. The Gospel of Thomas is a compilation of sayings without the inclusion of important historical events as recorded in the Gospels. We are not told when or under what circumstances the statements were made.”

Contradicts Four Gospels

“Many of the sayings are contradictory to those we have in the Gospels. For example, saying 114 says:”

“Jesus said, ‘See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.’”

Different Jesus

“The person of Jesus Christ is different than the one revealed in the Gospels. In the Gospels Jesus is God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity. In the Gospel of Thomas He is one who points the way by which an individual can attain the knowledge of God.”

“These reasons demonstrate that the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery rather than a legitimate work written by one of Jesus’ apostles.”

Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ

“One alternative explanation of the life and ministry of Jesus that has caused considerable interest is the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ. This work was written by Levi Dowling (1844-1911). based upon communication he received from an alleged “universal mind.” The Aquarian Gospel attempts to fill in some of the missing years of Jesus’ youth as well as explain His wisdom by attributing it to contact with holy men of other religions. The result is a contradictory mixture of Christian science and occultic thought.”

“The name is derived from the astrological idea that a new Aquarian age has come upon us, bringing with it the need for a new spiritual gospel, the Aquarian gospel.”

Content

“The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ attempts to fill in some of the blanks in the life of Jesus. Some of the material in the Aquarian Gospel is borrowed from the ancient Gospel of James, a well-known forgery in the early years of the church. The most prominent part of the book deals with the education and travel of Jesus. According to the Aquarian Gospel, Jesus first studied under the Jewish teacher Hillel and then went to India to spend time with their holy men. His learning also supposedly took Him to Tibet, Persia. Assyria, Greece, and Egypt. It was in Egypt that Jesus was said to have joined the sacred brotherhood. He passed through seven degrees and emerged as the Logos. In Alexandria a council of seven sages was held where they formulated seven great religious postulates and ordained Jesus for the work of the ministry.”

“The Aquarian Gospel then rewrites the four gospels according to its own particular viewpoint. The end of the story has Jesus appearing in a materialized body to people in India, Persia, Greece, and other countries.”

Evaluation

“Like many previous attempts, the Aquarian Gospel attempts to give an explanation of the wisdom and character of Jesus apart from the biblical depiction. Dowling’s reconstruction shows obvious borrowing from the Ancient Gospel of James, as well as familiarity with a nineteenth century works, Notovitch’s Unknown Life of Jesus Christ.”

“The book begins with an historical inaccuracy: “Augustus Caesar reigned and Herod Antipas was ruler in Jerusalem.” This is an error because Antipas ruled in Galilee, never in Jerusalem.”

“A crucial problem with the Aquarian Gospel concerns its scenario of the source of Jesus’ teachings. If Jesus obtained His wisdom from the masters of India, Greece, and other countries, then why doesn’t His teaching reflect it? The teachings of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, are in direct conflict with every central belief of Hinduism, Buddhism, and the other religions with which He supposedly came into contact!”

“The simple fact is that we have in the Gospels a firsthand account of the life and ministry of Jesus. The Aquarian Gospel is a false portrait of the life of Christ, not based upon historical records or eyewitness testimony but rather upon the recollections of an ancient forgery and the imagination of a twentieth-century writer. It has no value whatsoever in providing new or accurate information on the life of Christ.”

The Archko Volume

“One of the most famous written hoaxes is the Archko Volume. The work is also known as the “Report of Pilate” or “Archko Library.” The content of this work is an alleged report of the trial and death of Jesus made by Pontius Pilate to the Emperor Tiberius. Its existence can be traced back to Rev. W. D. Mahan of Boonville, Missouri, who published a thirty-two page pamphlet in 1879 titled, “A Correct Transcript of Pilate’s Court.”

“The success of the “Report of Pilate” led Mahan to make some more “discoveries” including: an interview with the shepherds who were given the announcement of Christ’s birth, Gamaliel’s interview with Joseph and Mary, Eli’s story of the Magi, and other previously unknown interviews surrounding the life and ministry of Jesus. Mahan claimed these “interviews” were translated from ancient manuscripts in Rome or Constantinople.”

Edgar Goodspeed writes concerning the accuracy of the “interviews”:

“The picture of Jesus in his interview with Pilate is romantic and theatrical, and the Pilate reflected in the “Report” is historically improbable.”

“The whole work is a weak, crude fancy, a jumble of high-sounding but meaningless words, and hardly worth serious criticism. It is difficult to see how it could have deceived anyone…. Like the *Report of Pilate,” these [the other interviews] bristle with childish blunders…. The supposed references to Josephus’s Jewish Wars … simply do not exist. The statement that Josephus in his Antiquities refers to Jesus in more than fifty places is false … That Tacitus wrote his history of Agricola in A.D. 56 is of course an error; Tacitus was born in 55, and even if he had been able to write his father-in-law’s biography at the age of one year, there was nothing yet to write, for Agricola himself was only nineteen (Edgar Goodspeed, Famous Biblical Hoaxes, pp. 33, 35).”

“As can be imagined, the “Report of Pilate” as well as the later interviews were immediately exposed as frauds. It was noticed, for instance, that entire pages of Eli’s story of the Magi were copied verbatim from the novel Ben Hur.”

Unhappily, people continue to read and believe these fraudulent works although they have no basis in fact.

The Lost Books of the Bible

“One of the most often asked questions concerns the so-called “Lost Books of the Bible.” A book with this title was produced in 1926. It was the reprint of William Hone’s Apocryphal New Testament, first printed in 1820. Hone’s book was copied from two earlier one’s published in 1736 and 1737. Thus the materials found in the “Lost Books of the Bible” were written 250 years ago. Since the time of the original wilting of the lost books, the field of manuscript studies has made tremendous advances but none of this has been taken into account by those who publish these works.”

The contents of the “lost books” include the following:

Four Infancy Gospels:

“They include: “The Birth of Mary,” a work written in the middle of the second century; “The Protoevangelium of James,” written about the same time; the first “Gospel of Infancy.” composed about A.D. 400; “The Second Infancy Gospel,” which in reality is a fragment of the Gospel of Thomas.”

“These were so-called infancy gospels that were written to fill in the details of the early unrecorded years of the life of Christ. These works include stories of Jesus forming clay figures of animals and birds which He makes walk, fly, and eat. Another account has a child who runs into Jesus falling down dead. These examples are representative of the fanciful nature of the accounts.”

The Letter of King Abgar

“This was supposedly a letter written to Jesus by Abgar, King of Edessa. Jesus’ reply to the letter is also contained. These works were written in the third century.”

Gospel of Nicodemus

“This is also known as “The Acts of Pilate.” It was written in the fourth or fifth century.”

“Other works found among the lost books include the Apostles’ Creed and the spurious letter from Paul to the Laodiceans.”

“These books have been called “outlaw” Scriptures by some. But this is not the case, for none of these works were ever thought of as part of the New Testament. Anyone who claims these works were suppressed by the church is speaking out of IGNORANCE or a desire to deceive.”

“It is obvious from the date of composition of these works that they cannot be considered on the same plane as Holy Scripture, which was written by eyewitnesses or people who recorded eyewitness testimony of the life and ministry of Jesus.”

Contrast With Four Gospels

One hundred years ago F.W. Farrar wrote the following that is still true today:

“The Four Gospels superseded all others and won their way into universal acceptance by their intrinsic value and authority. After so many salutary losses we still possess a rich collection of Apocryphal Gospels, and, if they serve no other good purpose, they have this value, that they prove for us undoubtedly the unique and transcendent superiority of the sacred records. These bear the stamp of absolute truthfulness, all the more decisively when placed in contrast with the writings which show signs of willful falsity. We escape their lying magic to find support and help from the genuine gospels. And here we take refuge with the greater confidence because the ruins which lie around the ancient archives of the Church look like a guarantee of the enduring strength and greatness of those archives themselves (F. W. Farrar, The Messages of the Books, p. 27).”

A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, the editors of the AnteNicene Library, said the other gospels offer …

curious glimpses of the state of the Christian conscience, and of modes of thought in the first centuries of our era, the predominant impression which they leave on our minds is the immeasurable superiority, the unapproachable simplicity

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Zoe

February 20, 2012 at 10:38 pm

Another amazing reality, confirming the TRUTH of Almighty God’s Word, the Bible, that has NEVER failed ONCE in any of HIS* prophetic pronouncements, throughout the course of history!

Old Testament prophecy
fulfilled before our eyes?
Americans scrambling to Bible to see
previously untold parallels with today

“What do sycamore and cedar trees have to do with biblical prophecy, the tragic events of 9/11 and the imminent future of the United States?”

“The roots of a sycamore tree at Ground Zero felled on Sept. 11, 2001, have been preserved as a memorial to the event in New York City. A local messianic rabbi believes it’s a visible fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy about God’s current judgment on America.”

“Everything, according to a new book which says an obscure text from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah is an urgent wake-up call for all Americans in light of what happened on that fateful day in 2001.”

“The Harbinger” by Jonathan Cahn, a messianic rabbi from the Jerusalem Center-Beth Israel Congregation in Wayne, N.J., deciphers stunning connections between what some may think is a cryptic biblical prophecy to the news events happening right now, in our current time.”

“Read “The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America’s Future” for yourself!”

“The key verse in question is Isaiah 9:10, which states: “The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.” (King James Version)

“These words were first uttered by leaders in ancient Israel and in response to a limited strike by Assyria on the lands of Zebulun and Naphtali – an attack the prophet makes clear is actually part of a limited judgment by God against apostasy. It wasn’t meant to destroy the nation, but to awaken it, according to most commentaries.”

“Historically speaking, the northern kingdom of Israel did not repent of its rebellion against God’s commandments, and were eventually conquered and deported from their property by the ancient Assyrians. Eventually, the southern kingdom of Judah was also overcome by the Babylonians after the Jews refused to repent as well.”

“But in “The Harbinger,” Cahn shows uncanny similarities between what’s stated in Isaiah 9:10 to the 21st century events of 9/11 and the years afterward, suggesting America is currently under a time of focused judgment by Almighty God.”

“Cahn claims the part of the prophecy noting “The bricks are fallen down” refers directly to the crumbling of the World Trade Center in New York City, with the verse connoting on an attitude of defiance, a desire to rebuild with stronger materials instead of acknowledging the hand of God and moving toward national repentance.”

“The verse mentions sycamore and cedar trees, and it’s here that things start to get eerie with the terrorist attack involving planes that smashed into the Twin Towers, leading to their eventual crumbling.”

“After the cloud of dust began to clear, police officers, rescue workers and onlookers gazed at the little plot of land at the edge of Ground Zero,” Cahn writes in “The Harbinger.”

“There in the middle of the ash and debris that covered the ground was a fallen tree. It would soon become a symbol of 9/11 and of Ground Zero. And it was a symbol … but one much more ancient than anyone there could have realized, and one carrying a message no one could have fathomed.”

“The tree at Ground Zero that was struck down on September 11 was a sycamore tree.”

“Cahn notes that in Old Testament times, the Assyrians who attacked the ancient Israelites intended to cut down the sycamore trees belonging to God’s people. But the intention was not present with the hijackers of 2001. ”

“The terrorists had no idea of Isaiah 9:10, no idea of the Harbingers, no idea of the sycamore tree growing at the corner of Ground Zero, and no idea that their attack would cause it to fall or that its fall was connected to an ancient prophecy. They had no idea … but it still happened.”

“Not only was a sycamore tree struck on 9/11, but it was replaced in the exact same location by another tree of the type mentioned in the original Hebrew, an “erez” tree, which is the same genus as the cedar.
The uprooted sycamore tree from Ground Zero was replaced by the “Tree of Hope,” a conifer tree which Rabbi Jonathan Cahn says fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 9:10.

“The most natural thing to have done would have been to replace one sycamore with another,” Cahn writes. “But the prophecy required that the fallen sycamore be replaced with a tree of an entirely different nature. So the tree that replaced the sycamore of Ground Zero was likewise not a sycamore. According to the prophecy, the sycamore must be replaced by the biblical erez. So it must be replaced by a conifer tree.”

“And that’s what took place in 2003, as a conifer tree, the “Tree of Hope” as it was called, was planted in the spot where the sycamore was slammed on 9/11.”

“Think about it,” says Cahn. “Who could have put it all together? The tower fell because of the terrorists. It happened to fall exactly as it did in order to strike down that one particular tree. The tree just happened to be a sycamore, which just happened to be growing at the corner of Ground Zero.”

“The tree that would replace it just happened to be given as a gift from outsiders who had nothing to do with anything else, but who just happened to feel led to give it. Their gift just happened to be the fulfillment of the biblical Erez Tree, which just happened to be the same tree spoken of in the ancient vow – the tree that must replace the Sycamore.”

“They just happened to lower it into the same soil in that the fallen Sycamore had once stood – exactly as in the Hebrew of the ancient vow. And the man who led the ceremony around the tree just happened to bring it all together without knowing that he was bringing anything together. No one knew what they were doing. It wasn’t a matter of intent. It was a manifestation of the Harbingers.”

“The parallels are truly stunning,” says Joseph Farah, founder of WND, who is producing a video documentary about Cahn’s findings. “They are too numerous and too powerful to relate in news story form. In fact, they are overwhelming in their number and their exactitude. I am persuaded God is trying to tell America something and Rabbi Cahn has found the key to unlocking the message.”

“As WND previously reported, two major American political figures actually voiced the Isaiah 9:10 prophecy in public in the immediate wake of the 9/11 onslaught.”

“In the aftermath of the attack, the nation was stunned,” said Cahn, “Everyone was trying to make sense of what had happened – this unprecedented attack on America. The very next day, September 12, then Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle presented America’s response to the world. And what did he say?”

Daschle said: “America will emerge from this tragedy as we have emerged from all adversity – united and strong. Nothing … nothing can replace the losses of those who have suffered. I know there is only the smallest measure of inspiration that can be taken from this devastation. But there is a passage in the Bible from Isaiah that speaks to all of us at times like this.”

He then went on to read Isaiah 9:10.

“Daschle has no idea what he is doing here,” explains Cahn. “He thinks he’s offering comforting words to a grief-stricken people, but he is actually embracing the spiritually defiant and arrogant words of the children of Israel, proclaiming the ancient and ominous vow of the leaders of that nation. He doesn’t realize it, but he is actually inviting more judgment on the nation.”

“It might be of some significance that Daschle, one of the most powerful men in the nation when he spoke those words, later fell into disgrace – to the point where he couldn’t even serve in Barack Obama’s Cabinet.”

“That might have been the end of the story – if no other top leader in the nation uttered those strange and obscure words after 9/11. But that’s not the case.”

“On the third anniversary of the attack, Sept. 11, 2004, another powerful U.S. senator running for vice president that year and who would famously run for the presidency four years later, gave a speech to the Congressional Black Caucus.”

“This time, John Edwards’ entire speech was built on a foundation of Isaiah 9:10: “Today, on this day of remembrance and mourning, we have the Lord’s Word to get us through,” he said. He then read Isaiah 9:10. He went on to talk about how America was doing just that – rebuilding with hewn stone and planting cedars:”

“Like Daschle, Edwards thinks he’s invoking inspirational and comforting words from the Bible, but he’s actually inviting judgment on America,” says Cahn. “He’s repeating the vow that provoked God to bring calamity on ancient Israel.”

“Get Rabbi Jonathan Cahn’s “The Harbinger: The Ancient Mystery That Holds the Secret of America’s Future.”

“Want to learn about prophecy by watching it? Get the “Apocalypse and the End Times” video

“No matter when the end comes, find out what the Bible says is your true, incredibly glorious and immortal destiny that most churches never even mention in this autographed No. 1 best-seller, “Shocked by the Bible: The Most Astonishing Facts You’ve Never Been Told”

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millertheanunnaki

February 20, 2012 at 10:58 pm

@ zoe:
“And, over the last 2000 years, beginning with the embryonic birth of His True Church, in the Apostolic era, NOT, Roman Catholicism, the Whore of Revelation, and all of the other.”
“The early church father, Eusebius, called these books “totally absurd and impious.” Over three hundred different works that fit into this category have been catalogued.”

Don’t you find these two statements confusing and somewhat schizophrenic?
If Roman Catholicism is False and Demonic why quote from any of its scholars? Was Eusebius a Roman Catholic or Not?

You describe Roman Catholicism as a “Whore of Revelation”. So why quote any of her ‘johns’ as reliable sources? The same way the RC Church sought to expunge the writings of Mary Magdalene and defame (“blacken”) her name (implying she was a whore and not Jesus’s lover) you too are trying to imply the RC is involved n paganism and sorcery and not true “Christianity”.

And while you are at it, Zoe, solve this “moving” puzzle. If your friend Jesus was crucified on a specific day called “Good Friday” (how ironic!) in say AD 33, how come Christians celebrate Good Friday and Easter on different or moving dates each year; unlike his birth at Xmas which is always December 25th? Good Friday and Easter can fall any time between March 20 and any date in April of any year. I know the astrological/astronomical reason. Do you know the Biblical reason for this “inconsistency”?

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Different types of reparations. https://www.quaker.org.uk/documents/un-basic-principles-guidelines-on-reparations-appendix-b In the opinion of a lowly blogmaster, countries like Barbados that were pillaged by the…
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I am against the pursuit of reparations simply because there will be none forthcoming. Where are these governments going to…
David on A few questions for Commissioner Sonia BoyceJuly 23, 2026
@Bush Tea The country is enveloped in a debate concerning NCF’s decision to switch the pic o d crop finals…
Hants on Planting concrete on agriculture lands at Constant plantationJuly 23, 2026
Disgusting. https://nationnews.com/2026/07/23/crackdown-at-housing-project/
Bush Tea on A few questions for Commissioner Sonia BoyceJuly 23, 2026
@ David …and if you check carefully, it is not just ‘the city’ that is burning… The whole damn WORLD…
David on A few questions for Commissioner Sonia BoyceJuly 23, 2026
It is crop over, soon after will be independence revelry, culminating in Christmas. People don’t give a crap? While the…
Bush Tea on A few questions for Commissioner Sonia BoyceJuly 23, 2026
@ NO What is to be expected from brass bowls? They accept ANY shiite dumped into them. They adapt to…

Est.2007

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Planting concrete on agriculture lands at Constant plantation

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