Oldest building in Bridgetown...c.1650 - Dr. Karl Watson
The following was posted by Dr. Karl Watson on his Facebook Page. BU crafted the title of the post.
This is the oldest building in Bridgetown…c.1650. As you can see, it is Dutch inspired and would look quite in place in Amsterdam or Willemstad. It was one of the linchpins of our World Heritage application/dossier. Because it is a metaphor for Dutch/English commercial conflict and the subsequent emergence of the English/British dominated North Atlantic system, it deserves iconic status. It stands as a tangible/monumental beacon, explaining why it was that the first of a series of Navigation Acts was passed by the English Parliament…directed largely against the relative free trade which Barbados was enjoying with Holland. Within the context of British economic history/the trading arrangements of the British Empire, it is possibly the most important building in the English speaking Caribbean…a lonely survivor from the seventeenth century, having survived the many fires which devastated Bridgetown.
It has just changed hands and this picture and one to follow show some “renovation” work being done. My brother took this on Sunday gone. If you zoom in, you will see that the Dutch curvilinear gable is being filled in with wet cement. One of the quoins (those white bricks on the side of the building) has been irreparably damaged. You can see a mason on the scaffolding cutting away a parapet…this fell block by block as we watched and pleaded with the workers and owner that what was being done was contrary to the ideals of authenticity and integrity which inform/govern the World Heritage listing. Such work actually puts our recent World Heritage listing in jeopardy. Mine is a lonely voice crying in the wilderness. If you respect and understand these monumental relics of our past…if you can see through the neglect and garbage to what Bridgetown has the capacity to attain, because all is not lost…then talk about it…repost this…call in the radio programmes, write to the press….individuals pleading for sanity by themselves have their voices drowned out or are seen as mere evidence of some strange eccentricity. Many people shouting with the same voice are heard and are listened too…action will follow when the public demands it.
Related Link: Barbados Enters World Heritage List With Bridgetown And Its Garrison Inscribed
It is a shame to get to this stage of our development where preservation of our past can be easily destroyed in a blink of an eye. Where are the same people who have hustled to have Bridgetown named as a World Heritage Site ? Do they really understand what Heritage is all about? Do we really understand what Heritage is all about?
“Guardians of our Heritage ,firm Craftsmen of our fate.”
Does this include Politicians and 90% Bajans?
I say burn the f#cker …!
BAFBFP | January 11, 2012 at 10:19 PM |
I say burn the f#cker …!
BAFBFP…..With you in it I hope!
Karl I see what you mean. What the mason is doing is both unneccessary and stuipd, and very likely illegal since this is a listed building. I know a thing or two about masonary.
Town and Country planning should stop the owner/builder right away.
And since Barbados is now a World Heritage site, the Polytechnic should right away add a heritage preservation course to all of its construction courses.
I know that Karl is retired but perhaps he could be persuaded to write the curriculum and initially to teach the course. It could initially be compulsory but not for credit.
This heritage thing to me is a load of crap.Whose heritage ? The colonizers? These buildings were built by those that kidnap my grandparents from Africa and brought them over here to be slaves for over 300 years.I don’t give a fuck if their damn buildings burn down.I am sure my grandparents didn’t get pay for building them.
@ Angela Ifill
You very acid.
” I don’t give a fuck if their damn buildings burn down.” You should be very proud of yourself. Skull hard and empty.
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Angela Ifill | January 11, 2012 at 11:05 PM |
This heritage thing to me is a load of crap.Whose heritage ? The colonizers? These buildings were built by those that kidnap my grandparents from Africa and brought them over here to be slaves for over 300 years.I don’t give a fuck if their damn buildings burn down.I am sure my grandparents didn’t get pay for building them
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And by the same token while we are at it ,lets get rid of Cricket, The Police Band, the Knighthoods ,BEM’s ,Government House, House of Parliament. The Civil Service,the Anglican Church.
I say burn Islandgal and Carl Hudson, all the Guardians of White Heritage and their lackeys …
Angela you go girl …!
But Angela those buildings were built my the hands of those same enslaved labourers and craftsmen. Even while they were enslaved they were still bright and capable people.
You really believe that all the historic buildings were built by the hands of the white slave masters?
Why would you believe that your enslaved foreparents stupid or incompetent?
The pyramids wer built by enslaved people too, but I don’t see the Egyptians rushing to burn down those.
BAFBFP you would burn the Panama Canal too.
That too was built by poor black man and poor black women form every village in Barbados these builders were the grandsons and granddaughters of enlaved Bajans.
Damn good builders too. The Panama Canal still holding up nicely. My grandmother’s brother, he who was born in a poor Bajan village in 1870 worked on building it. Hut he was no fool. He was a highly skilled builder. And yes I have the documents to prove it.
Only can only hope that BAF and Ang dont get togther and breed.
Barbadians were promised when the World heritage status was received that a massive communications campaign would have been rolled out to sensitize everyone. There was even the promise of a website and access to the voluminous document which was prepared by Barbados to acquire the designation. Where are we with this promise? It is not enough to get the designation which seems to be contrived more than out of a culture of valuing and being sensitive to the environment.
Wunna people just brain wash doh … Conditioned to a fault …! The Panama Canal is a useful construction. I choose not to be constantly reminded of a past of complete exploitation and depravity over a useless edifice simply because an extremely small minority of traditional elite residents and their lackeys think these relics worthy of something
@BAFBFP
Aren’t you the one always crying about the need to focus on assets which generate forex? Don’t you think the oldest building in Barbados adds to the brand and or product we have and therefore lends appeal to the potential visitor? Who by the way spends forex when they visit? Also is it not a positive to create a culture of preserving our history? History is history it does not matter how it was created.
do you know there is nothing and i mean nothing that one can buy that would give you the history of this World Heritage site?
that along tells you how much we care about this World Heritage site.
then BAFBFP, if that is what you choose, why comment on the topic? who are you to choose what i or anyone should be interested in?
some of you really like attention.
BAFBFP is just too lazy to care, so he covers it with this worn out vitriolic crap. The world over, and in other parts of the Caribbean, all of which has been colonised at one time or another, governments are preserving their built heritage BECAUSE it is attarctive to potential visitors. One way or another BAFBFP, your income (I presume that you have a job) is derived from what vistors spend here in Barbados.
Random Thoughts and Colonel Buggy …you seem to have read my mind and posted some of the same points I was going to post.
Angela you have disappointed me with your hate filled response. BAFBFP…you only pretending to hate …you already know how you love white meat and only white meat.
Yes if we were to go by both Angela and BAFBFP suggestions, why don’t we all burn the churches, the Schools, the parliament buildings, and every thing that was built by black slave labour. The we will go to Egypt as Random mentioned and burn the pyramids, the sphinx, the camels and then let us go to Africa and burn the ports from which our African brothers and sisters were sold from to the white man by our own African brothers and sisters and shipped to the Indies.
And why don’t we burn the oval, the Bridgetown port where white man’s money and technology was used to construct it?
Why not burn the whole world with our hatred and bitterness because we were born Black and don’t love ourselves enough to admit that because of the same slavery we hate, it was responsible for us being in this part of the world. We can burn the books that say so but we cannot burn the fact that we are children of slaves and because of them we are here today.
I raise my hand and glass to my ancestors who came as slaves , built some of the most beautiful buildings in this part of the world and are still here as proof that this is their work!
You know what Adolph Hitler is the most famous German leader of all time. Maybe they should erect a statue of him for the sake of the tourist dollar. Fa’get history. Maybe the Russians were plain stupid for removing all statues of Stalin when they changed their political structure.
I do not need to be reminded of our shite plantation colonial past at every turn, even if it means forfeiting a few US dollars. If that is really what the tourists are looking for they could shove what they are prepared to spend up their pretty little fannies (UK and US versions)…! George Washington house six million dollar spend was a complete and shameful waste of money … incidentally…
islandgal246
You see how wunna women getting cuss this year by the men bloggers, I ain’ doing that. So you go long and project …!
Angel Ifill and BAFBFP:
Don’t you know that Europe makes a lot of foreign currency each year with their peculiar houses and historic places. I agree that past which engendered these old buildings was not what the oppressed black people of Barbados had in mind but we can make a buck and the Colonel along with his friends can regale in their throes of memory about the good old bad days of human exploitation and inhumanity.
No Lemuel
I am not comfortable with the “Prostituting” of a past that is as dehumanizing as the shite we call our history … sorry. Let the blasted relics along with Nelson fall to the dirt …!
@ BAFBFP
You are a blasted relic yourself, we should put your ass in a big glass case and put it in one of the more obscure rooms at the museum.
That chip got to be heavy, a fella would have to struggle under that pointless burden.
To BAFBFP:
Would you agree that some good can be derived from any past however morbid it was or is? We in Bim shout up and down with regard to our education system, but the oppressors started it. We jump up and down about a number of other cultural things but they were also modeled off of the oppressor. These are the thing we can not let fall to the ground, and we must be smart enough to recognize an opportunity to make some foreign exchange.
You know I luv ad homonym. It shows that You sick bitches actually believe scare tactics to be a sufficient defense to a policy of constant insult to the sensitivities of Blacks who simply care little for the monuments of a debasing past. It exposes the level of contempt that is held to opposition to any White initiative ’bout hey..You shites really have NO defense now do you. This is all about traditional arrogance and a mass of people who are just to stupid to challenge it…
I say let the blasted things burn ..!
BAFBFP…said ” I say let the blasted things burn ..!’
And I say wid you in it as the kindle!
islandgal246
Because you is a woman and I refuse to join Bush Tea and the rest, I gun le’ you ga long … hear ..
lemuel | January 12, 2012 at 9:58 AM |
“Would you agree that some good can be derived from any past however morbid it was or is”
Nothing wrong with being selective. But the type of response that is thrown up when their is opposition to a collection of White people in Ba’bados wanting to preserve something that they think is important, demonstrates to me why their is need for opposition in the first place.
There are conflicting interests here and I unlike so many others, am not genetically engineered to accept campaigns simply because the act of not doing so may prove offensive to our local White elite.
there
Baffy I know yuh ent nuh woman hater like BT and Scout an ah still gine oppose you pon dis one.
I wunder eff Scout and BT ent closet Queens? Dem have come out and have shown dem open dislike for wimmenfolk like me and AC and any woman dat speaks she mind. Dem got a reel grudge gainst wee wimmen. Clostet Queens ah say Closet Queens dem is!
……”I raise my hand and glass to my ancestors who came as slaves , built some of the most beautiful buildings in this part of the world and are still here as proof that this is their work!
I have never read so much ignorance by supposedly educated people.
While I have no issues with preservation of these buildings to teach our people of the past, I find it truly amazing that anyone that is a descendant of Slaves, can make the above quote with pride.
When the Slave built the Pyramids, these buildings in Bridgetown and allover the world etc, where they building from their own plans, ideas or cultural desire?
These people were starved, beaten, humiliated and treated worst than animals because of their status as Slaves. The monuments and buildings had NOTHING to do with their culture or pride…there were built to the Slavemasters specifications to represent their (slavemasters) culture and it was done in the most brutal way.
So, please spare me the ignorance of the emotional mouthings about Slaves building with pride or even knowing how to build….the labourer is NOT a mason!!
Tecchie….we can despair how cruel slavery was that doesn’t change the fact they their hard labour was responsible for the erection of these buildings. And why can’t we be proud of it? You said…. .the labourer is NOT a mason!! How do you know that? Were you there? The labourer in those days was probably a master craftsman unlike today.
Da BLACK blame da WHITE for everything. Barbados has free education “Does not seem to be working” or else the quality is extremely LOW, Example: Alexander School, the Indians running the show.
Heritage is Heritage and should not be considered Black, White, Gray, Chocolate etc. but HERITAGE. The Black people of Barbados who blame everything on White Slavery should consider it was your Black Ass cousins in Africa that SOLD your ASS to the White Slavers.
Barbados is Third(TURD) World and is slowly digressing to FOURTH WORLD status and this is just the latest example, disregard History & destroy Heritage.
I’m sorry Karl but your waging a losing battle here in Barbados.
islandgal246 | January 12, 2012 at 11:06 AM |
Tecchie….we can despair how cruel slavery was that doesn’t change the fact they their hard labour was responsible for the erection of these buildings. And why can’t we be proud of it? You said…. .the labourer is NOT a mason!! How do you know that? Were you there? The labourer in those days was probably a master craftsman unlike today.
LOL….true to form IG….
Were ‘you’ there?
As usual, you have missed the point completely.
I have not said that their hard labour wasn’t responsible (how else were the buildings built) but the is a vast difference between building on your own and being forced to build….eg…who designed your house?…you or the architect? who went to who with the ideas?
The labourer is not a mason was is as applicable then as it is today.
Again you show true emotion..’The labourer in those days was probably a master craftsman unlike today.’
While not taking away from the ‘craftsmen’ of that era……please….travel the world and see some of the wonders of ‘todays’ craftsmen.
You can have the last word.
Wily Coyote says….’ The Black people of Barbados who blame everything on White Slavery should consider it was your Black Ass cousins in Africa that SOLD your ASS to the White Slavers.’
You were going along fine until your slip started to show…lol.
Almost had me thinking you were truly concerned and not just upset because BAFBFP mashed your corns….couldn’t hold it in long enough eh?
All races have owned, betrayed and sold their own into slavery at some point in history. I don’t know why people always love to bring that up about Africans as though it is some great big shocking revelation that is supposed to silence black people about how they choose to celebrate their history.
There were groups in Ghana who were defeated and captured by the British. One of the conditions which the British set for these groups to remain free and live peacefully was that they had to provide slaves and gold in order to live peacefully.
They had no option than to also raid less-powerful towns to come up with the slaves and gold. So yes, in this way they were a part of it. The noble European, of course, is above this type of behaviour. If the Europeans were in this position where they had to participate in the slave trade in order to survive they would never, EVER do such a thing against their own, would they? Only black people would, right? Only African people would just sit around, all too eager to sell off “their own” for a couple of brass trinkets and glass beads, right?
In any situation where people are seeking to survive or to liberate themselves you will always have those who side with the oppressor. This was not just a historical reality during the slave trade, but is a well-known fact which is evident in every single society (not just black ones) to this day.
Jews betrayed other Jews to the Gestapo and in the concentration camps during World War II too as a means of survival. But their concentration camps today tend to be maintained as symbols of remembrance, as opposed to being tourist celebrations or means to make money.
Excellent points Nia!
We still practice our oppressors form of government, education and religion. Should we discard those as well? I am for discarding the religion because it has not helped the Black man one bit only promises of better things to come if they believe in the oppressors’ God. The education a system has enabled us to be where we are today but we need to make some changes. The form of government I believe has worked for us but I ask is it really working for us today?
Should we look at our old monuments as reminders of our cruel past and as a deterrent that such would never be allowed to happen? I can live with that concept, however it takes money to up keep and why not use it as an attraction?
Nia
You’ve got me with some serious wood going on right now. I could not agree with you more … Symbols of remembrance is the only real and relevant argument that I have heard presented in discussions such as this. Tourism is NOT.
I accept what you say but I do not even want this. Sorry.
Wily Coyote
Yah useless piece ah pup … Yours may be a base opinion, as usual, but there is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that it is a popular one among White people in this part of the world. My friend contempt works both ways …! F*ck off
It is true minority Whites is the group which seems to be more sensitive to preserving old buildings and not to forget animals. The reality is the building is part of our heritage because it is old. The point is we should be caring for animals. This issue should not be about race.
Of course we should care for animals, including the Wild Coyotes, Duppy Lizards, Johns, Fat Arss’s and Hoods.
@Ms I and BAFBFP
Wunnu thinks you going to change the reality of the past by bunning down and destroying the presumed symbols????????
All of the Cbean societies that were lead by political idiots ie Manley and Burnham, decided to destroy anything “colonial” especially business. They totally destroyed the road to progress and chased away the successful peeps that were in most cases potentially instrumental for the betterment of BLACK peeps in JA and GUY! Please note that the lighter and darker people who left are FAR BETTER off in nearly every critical respect than those who inherited the Nation left behind! The best educated, richest etc Jammies and Guyanese live in North America!
It is interesting that the cleverer politicians of Bim ie Grantley, Tom and Sir Dipper, produced a far more successful society with less natural resources, less crime, better education, higher standard of living etc than the JOKERS referred to above.
BAFBFP, it is shocking that someone with your capability had to boung down this road and hit your head so hard! NOT surprising doh!
Black folks should never lose sight of the terrible past BUT focus on developing themselves and family! In Toronto there is a group of Black people always complaining about everything while the Indians and Orientals face the same albeit heinous discrimination by applying formulaes of success…. mainly hard and clever work. What is interesting is that the Black peeps that apply the same formulae end up with very positive results!
If it wasn’t about REALLY race then some of the same people who want the buildings to remain wouldn’t automatically resort to the tired stereotypical arguments about African slavery (they sold their own, etc.) history and colonization.
We should be caring for our animals because it is simply the inherently decent, humane thing to do regardless.
But I don’t hear the people who are advocating for the buildings to remain doing so on any particularly humane grounds, so why compare the two?
The main arguments I hear for preseving certain buildings are: It makes money; it’s European history; Black people have no real history apart from slavery so we should learn to love these buildings; Black people sold their own into slavery so we should learn to love these buildings.
I’m not saying the building should be discarded, but I think you are arguing in bad-faith by throwing in the animal welfare argument and by extension trying to suggest that White people are more humane and sensitive when it comes to certain issues.
@MoneyBrain,
When you have a chance please research the ways in which European people, Indian people, Asian people (the term ‘Orientals’ is considered offensive by the way) and all those other groups you love so much are taught about their history.
When you are through with that, research the ways in which Africans and African-descended people are taught about their history.
Then come back and lecture to Black people about what they should and should not be complaining about.
The example of fusing the two example (old buildings/animals) was to refute the point that it is a minority group (white) who always seem to be pushing the cause of preserving old buildings. A nonsense argument.
Okay David let me modify my nonsense argument. It is the White people and their lackeys (I believe that you may have missed the detail) that push for the preservation of old buildings. Does this ring a little more true for you? And of course this is NOT so in the case of animals rights…!
@ Moneybrain
My experience with you is that you never seem to be on point. You throw stones all over the place and behave as though you are actually saying something that has weight. I cannot talk to you man, so I won’t even try …
@ Nia
I am so hot for you right now …!
@ Island Gal
“Baffy I know yuh ent nuh woman hater like BT and Scout”
@BAFBFP
tourists are looking for they could shove what they are prepared to spend up their pretty little fannies …..
Also:@ Nia
I am so hot for you right now …!
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This man is so into himself that I bet he’s having to type with only his left hand. Island Gal you honestly think that these and other expressions from “Baffy” show that he is not a woman hater? When the tourists stop coming (and they will), and BAFBFP is grovelling around looking for something to eat, it will be for sure somebody else’s fault. Anyhow, how come he’s not communicating in Yoruba or some other African language? Steupse!
Yeah … uhum … yeah … uhum …yeah … yeah … yeah .. yes … yeas .. YES … YES .. YES … MY GOD YES … YY EE SSS …!
Whoo …!
Thnx Steupse! I needed that …! Whoo
Don’t waste your time Nia…that is an exercise in futility!
@ David…
Who owns the building?
@BAFBFP
I am shocked to think that you can’t follow the relevance of my points! I have more faith in your capability than you seem to have yourself! SAD
All this just because you could NOT convince me that Castro and his Cuba have failed miserably compared with the smaller and less resource rich Lee’s Singapore!
HINT….dont fight unwinable arguments…… you are good BUT not that good!
Almost all discussions in Barbados appear to lead to White vs Black, when there is no need. The downside to this is when there is an issue of race with serious implications, it becomes trivial because of the expected glibness.
I will look at only a few World Heritage Sites to get a feel of what it means.
The Ruins of Great Zimbabwe: They are only ruins but they are built of stone and were there a long time before Europeans came to Africa. They echo a great past of African skill and knowledge, we would not have known of them if a Chief had said destroy them, they are only uninhabited stone dwellings.
The Tower Of London: “The imprisonment of Edward v and his younger brother in the 15th Century, and then in the 16th Century of Four English queens, three of them executed on Tower Green – Ann Bloeyn, Catherine Howard and Jane Grey – with only Elizabeth 1 escaping, shaped English History. The Tower was known as a place of torture and execution”. Does that mean her Majesty The Queen would not visit the place because her relatives were executed there ,should she petition to have the Tower razed to the the ground.
Robben Island: Where Nelson Mandella was imprisoned for some twenty years. Should it be destroyed because one of the most well known men in the world suffered there.
“The buildings of Robben Island bear eloquent witness to its sombre history.
Robben Island and its prison buildings symbolize the triumph of the human spirit, of freedom and of democracy over oppression”.
World Heritage Sites are about sustaining the great “diversity of the interactions between humans and their environment to protect living traditional cultures and preserve the traces of those which have disappeared, those sites called cultural landscapes have been inscribed on the World Heritage List.”
The lesson for us is to learn from what has happened, and to assist when and where we can. We should not forget the past but not be weighed down by it, to an extent that it prevents our forward movement. We can “never” erase History but we owe it to those who have suffered to see issues in a clear light….and have the clearness of mind to acknowledge the contributions they made, because “we know” the circumstances of their contributions.
@NIA
Where did I say that I love those groups and NOT the African, Black, Bajan my bros and sistas I grew up with at home, in the village and school in BIM ????
Orientals are peeps from the East and Occidentals are people from the West….there IS nothing to be offended about! It is hardly a historically nasty word like the N word. My wife is Oriental! She is PROUD of it too!
I don’t have the time with all this research so why don’t (did’nt you) you make your point?
I have spent many years close to Bajan’s of colour and I am highly qualified to coach anyone including Bajan’s and Black peeps in the methods of success and the AVOIDANCE of wasteful energy reducing tirades that ain’t going to lead to self improvement.( may help ease frustration tho).
You want me to conduct research BUT the Cbean has been independent for 45yrs + and surely the history books have been rewritten by Black authors by now, if NOT why not???? I thought that History books at HC in the 1970s were thus produced.
Are you going to blame whitey because the newspapers , teachers, parents in Bim have NOT fostered the right concept of SELF for Black kids????
45yrs is a long time to be Independent of the colonisers and Aug 1 st 1834 is 177 yrs back. I would have believed that progress in this respect had been accomplished. It seems that darker peeps are holding some very lofty positions in Bim and acquitting themselves very well in medicine, law, business etc. Admittedly the politicians for the most part are failing the populace by needless partisan nonsense just like their former colonisers and the US!
NO! NO! BAF do not burn those buildings. let them stand there as a constant reminder to the children and their grandchildren of those whose foreparents perpetrated crimes against humanity and was rewarded for doing so,After all :Deadmen do tell tales”
@Technician
Will try to find out.
s
David | January 12, 2012 at 12:53 AM |
Barbadians were promised when the World heritage status was received that a massive communications campaign would have been rolled out to sensitize everyone. There was even the promise of a website and access to the voluminous document which was prepared by Barbados to acquire the designation. Where are we with this promise? It is not enough to get the designation which seems to be contrived more than out of a culture of valuing and being sensitive to the environment.
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But David you know full well that we are a 9-day wonder society. We are also a nation that does not believe in Planned Maintenance or Maintenance of any kind. We see it daily with a shortage of vehicles in key sectors. We are in the midst of a Leptospirosis scare and the Sanitation Service Authority is suffering from a shortage of trucks,causing a build up of garbage all across the island.
So, true to form, the World Heritage Status will surely be taken from us, if we do not get our fingers out and start working.The only way that we might save the status of the Garrison is by incorporating the Pioneer Company/Platoon of the BDF into the maintenance plans for the Garrison.
David | January 12, 2012 at 1:30 AM |
@BAFBFP
Aren’t you the one always crying about the need to focus on assets which generate forex? Don’t you think the oldest building in Barbados adds to the brand and or product we have and therefore lends appeal to the potential visitor? Who by the way spends forex when they visit? Also is it not a positive to create a culture of preserving our history? History is history it does not matter how it was created
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I had the pleasure of visiting Israel. Many of the old buildings in Jerusalem and Israel in general, were built by the Romans or others , who the Jews detested up to this day, judging from the frothing of the mouth of our Jewish guide,during his commentary when we visited places like Masada, but never once were we discourage from paying a fee to visit these places.
Like the lady on Bush Hill said ,on a hard night , when a certain potential jockey approached, ” ……….he does smell too damn musty, but ah need the little dollar.”
My! My! We getting on our high horses about who sold whom.,and how bad slaves were treated. Are we the same people who in the 21 Century of the Year of our Lord, take our elders to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and dump them there like a sack of garbage?
@Colonel Buggy
Now don’t go there Colonel you are getting personnel. Under what circumstances a person does what in a family relation has no place in this discussion.
All this talk is a bare joke…..
At the end of the day, someone owns the building and doesn’t give a shit about Heritage. They seeing $$$….why not find out and deal with that person(s) and leave the insults to others on BU for the owner?
Maybe the owner will shock us….maybe not.
http://www.nationnews.com/index.php/articles/view/nis-is-in/
Techie
Is right of course. The same is also true about The Globe and Empire Cinemas. And Techie believe it or not the same also held true for the stupid George Washington House whose previous owner made a pretty piece off of the GOB in the process. By the way he is an ex-politician.
Colonel Buggy
The Jews you talking ’bout really ain’ got nah real claim to Israel hear … So hush wid that example.
And it is about time that you and David understand that all this World Heritage nonsense was simply about finding something for the many senior executives in the Ministry of Culture to do and having an excuse to travel and see the world … that is all, that is all, that is all …
nis-is-in
What the hell did you expect. The NIS CANNOT afford to keep peoples money in cash or fixed deposits with inflation and interest rates as they are, and there are NO real investment opportunities around to put the money in. This project is long term so it is the very best option available right now
I admire passion and taking positions based on the courage of one’s convictions. I am glad that so many people have taken the time to respond to this posting and that a debate has ensued. Angela Ifill makes a point and asks a valid question when she posted the following: “This heritage thing to me is a load of crap. Whose heritage? The colonizers?” Among the exam questions I set in the recently concluded Caribbean History and Heritage course in the M.A. Heritage programme at Cave Hill, UWI was this one: Explain why heritage issues in the Caribbean are at best often hotly contested or at worst, ignored as being irrelevant to a modern Caribbean.
A rudimentary content analysis of the postings here on this topic show that the variable of race has assumed greatest prominence. Whether we agree or not with modern anthropological thinking that there is no scientific justification to apply the concept of race to humanity…homo sapiens….we must all acknowledge that race does infiltrate and factor into our emotions, our thought processes and our discourse. So BAFBFP has posted “I say burn Islandgal and Carl Hudson, all the Guardians of White Heritage and their lackeys.” A succinct statement designed to set the cat among the pigeons from a master agent provocateur. Undoubtedly there may be some, hopefully not many, who hold this view…I don’t relish the thought of being the victim in a modern day auto da fe. …but then I am not Carl Hudson nor am I the “Guardian of White Heritage.”
Let us look at the idea of White Heritage. This view is firmly held by some and has hampered the work of the Barbados National Trust. We are commonly seen as a group of elderly, white, elitist dogooders, hell bent of preserving questionable aspects of a dismal past. My first statement as incoming President two years ago, was that I wanted to challenge this perception and change the image of the Trust to one of an organization working for ALL Barbadians and not just a select few.
I may have been raised and be seen as a white Barbadian, but as I have often pointed out, my great grand mother was a quadroon and I too have ancestors who survived the Middle Passage. My roots are in the Bayland where I was raised in a chattel house so any claims to my elitist status are founded on perception and not reality. Yes, I was born into a Barbados where issues of race and class merged, creating a shadowy mix of subterfuge, denial, manipulation and anger. One of my earliest memories is of playing with a “white” neghbour’s children, and of being directed to the kitchen door while they went through the front door. Needless to say, my mother forbade me from ever visiting that house again. Having been a victim then and on several other occasions, I do not consider myself so insensitive or ill informed as to push exclusively the idea of “White Heritage.” Like Dreyfus, I too can say, “J’accuse.”
It may very well be that I argued erroneously, when I persuaded then Prime Minister Owen Arthur to invest scarce Barbadian resources in restoring the George Washington House or now, as in the present case of the Nicholls Building, decrying the loss of integrity of this historic structure and pointing out the possible negative results this could have for our World Heritage listing.
If I am mistaken, then don’t immolate me. It was the power of my convictions and my genuine desire for a better Barbados which lead me down this trajectory.
There are gloomy days ahead. All Barbadians rely excessively on the income derived from tourism in order to survive. Even when we think that we have no links to the tourist sector or tourist originated dollars, we are mistaken. So if we scoff at dollars coming from European or American tourists attracted by our heritage offerings, then we do so at our peril. We want, we need their money and we want it shoved into our Treasury not their “fannies.”
I honestly do not know who built the Nicholls House. Since it was constructed in the mid seventeenth century then it is highly likely that European craftsmen rather than Africans, did the work. This in no way detracts from its significance. Interestingly enough, this building was owned in the late eighteenth century by a black freedwoman who rented it to a white Barbadian.
All over the globe, countries are making use of their heritage to better the lives of their citizens. Why should we be any different?
Russia is rebuilding from scratch, buildings destroyed during the worst excesses of the Communist regime….St Petersburg once again shines, as Leningrad has been relegated to the history books. Cuba spends scarce resources preserving their architectural heritage which dates from Spanish colonial times. China has rebuilt those damaged sections of the Great Wall of China. Neither Ghana or Senegal have seen fit to burn or demolish the castles and other trading entrepots that marked the slave trade.
Let us debate by all means but let us not throw out the baby with the bath water.
“…burn Islandgal and Carl Hudson, all the Guardians of White Heritage and their lackeys.”
Man I never said that. But I am guilty of saying “… we should care for animals, including the Wild Coyotes, Duppy Lizards, Johns, Fat Arss’s and Hoods,Duppy Lizards, Johns, Bournes and Hoods.”
Secondly I do not differentiate on degrees of Whiteness. Purity is not my thing. Nope, no quadroons or mulattoes here, these are White people words. I prefer it simple … White and non-White, or Black and non-Black. Sorry Watson but you be White, like it or not. Your experience with the “Separate and Unequal” nature of the Barbados heritage has now been modified to “Separate but Equal” and I am to sit here and not continue or at least try to be a “master agent provocateur”…?
Thirdly for arguments sake Russia’s move to “relegate Leningrad to the history books” is committing the exact same wrong as per your sensitivities. Why should the Czars buildings and names be anymore relevant than the Communists? Surely they were more brutal and unforgiving in their time.
And finally where are the stats to support the arguments that tourists come here to see the Lord Nelson statue and the rest of it? At least I referred to their fannies as pretty, give me some credit for that.
To Nia and BAFBFP:
What the proponents of this “cultural thing” and that includes Karl Watson do not understand is that when you take the possibility of earning foreign exchange or any other change out of the equation, then BAFBFP has a point it would be better to burn it down, for these edifices do not worth any thing to the majority oppressed people of Barbados. I am all for the “change”; do not tell me any thing about cultural. As Techie would agree it would take too oil to swallow that pill which include the bruising brutality the slavery was made of.
BAFBFP aka Big Ass Fat Black Foolish Parasite (I hesitate to refer to “it” as a person). Your problem Parasite is the fact that each morning when you crawl out of your hole and catch sight of your reflection in some cesspool you are reminded that you were hatched out black.
It is unfortunate when issues like this one has to be discussed majority discussion always boils over stoked by racial commentary. The good thing if it can be termed such is that we need to continue to discuss these matters and expose the latent feelings which exist. Once exposed maybe we can work our way to a meeting of the minds.
To Duppy Lizard:
I do not see how this post helps the situation. BAFBFP has a right to a position even it jars yours sensitive nature!
@ David and lemuel – Yes I agree that what I wrote does not help the discussion. However, the blogger who writes under the name of BAFBFP also does not help the discussion. ALL of his submissions are filled with hatred and animosity. Why does he have the right to a position and not me? Your criticisms of what I wrote is therefore biased.
@BAFBFP – “Man I never said that.”. Really….
BAFBFP | January 11, 2012 at 11:41 PM |
I say burn Islandgal and Carl Hudson, all the Guardians of White Heritage and their lackeys …
@Duppy Lizard
Maybe you missed a recent comment to BAFBFP where he was urged to use his vast intellect to add more value to a another discussion. This comment is not to ‘show up’ BAFBFP but simply to clarify.
@Duppy Lizard
Maybe you missed a recent comment to BAFBFP where he was urged to use his vast intellect to add more value to a another discussion. This comment is not to ‘show up’ BAFBFP but simply to clarify your erroneous position.
Is it only me ?…..
Do you others see an emerging pattern on BU as soon as race talks come up?
Take a look at the ‘offended’ posters and note their handles…..BFP just love to come across to this side when the race issues come up…seems that agenda is still at work but this is Barbados and even those who come and wax philosophically, still ring hollow……because we black Bajans see it and live it every day and no amount of sugar coating will ever change that.
Rather than being so surprised and offended at BAFBFP’s comments, ask yourself, what have you done to change the situation.
@ Anon2
Shite you right. I did say that. But of course in response to Islandgirl who offered to burn me first … Now come on ..
@ David
Man you complement me with this talk about vast intellect, so I urge you to up your game if you must are to be useful here, with respect, since I sense a bias on your part.
@ Duppy Gizzard
Didn’t take much to attract your sorry ass back to the fold nah ..
And by the way Guppy you better hope that Negroman don’ get wif of this discussion or you will definitely see hatred and animosity and probably for good reason.
Techie
You spending too much time cross the other side. I see that you recognize some of these objectionable people commenting here. BFP is just another acronym for ad homonym
Actually BAFBFP….I haven’t been on that site for quite some time but I recognise the handles of a few of the instigators from my time there.
I too was banned and accused of threatening Adrian Loveridge and his family. This was because I challenged BFP on the Great Money Laundering Expose they had promised for months and failed (to this day) to deliver.
Up to this day, BFP can not show the IP address or proof. AL knows me personally and stood there while they said all this and said nothing so as far as I am concerned ‘de watchman as guilty as the thief’.
Be that as it may, there has always been a concerted effort by these ‘operatives’ to fuel any racial discussions on BU, to then highlight selected quotes, which are then used to paint a completely different picture of what BU really is.
It’s hard to lose ‘the only game in town’ status. 😉
ac | January 12, 2012 at 9:43 PM |
@Colonel Buggy
Now don’t go there Colonel you are getting personnel. Under what circumstances a person does what in a family relation has no place in this discussion.
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Can’t the same be said for our African cousins ,who according to one blogger, sold our black arses to the white man?
Techie
You are the victim of the Callous Arrogance that characterizes the White bajan male to this day … and all of this Heritage talk is a by product of it. The good Doctor is very innocent of course. He is like any other academic doing what he sees as the “right thing”. But of course as is with so many things in life, what is good for the goose in never really good for the gander, not even if goose and gander need lil’ tourist dollars. Academics will continue to be academics, but beyond the books and research there still are very real people out here who will disagree.
If I may borrow the phrase, let the blasted buildings “be relegate to the history books” … with photographs of course!
You see me, I love a good fight …!
Sugar is on the way out. The once thriving industries which we had in the 60’s , 70’s and 80’s have mostly disappeared to other countries with lower labour charges,leaving our industrial estates as bare as Mother Hubbard’s larder. Tourism is our main wage earner, the Sand and Sea is no longer a prime attraction, these can be had in other parts of the world, further afield ,and at a lower cost. What else have we got to offer visitors, beside heritage tourism,and comparable with what they may have at home or what they have seen in other countries during their travel. No one wants to come here and visit an old broken down rat infested building . I happened to be in Queens Park recently,and saw a couple of visitors perusing the park, they were in and out in less than 10 minutes. The sight of vagrants and Parros sleeping on card board and rags under the patio of the historic Queens Park House, once the home of the General Officer Commanding the West India Regiment, was more than enough to turn one off, visitor or local alike. Is this what we want our old buildings to be used for and look like ? Rundown ramshackled , smelly and pissy .
Kill Heritage Tourism,and we are killing the golden duck. But no doubt those who are so vibrantly opposed to this venture , which will bring in vital revenue, will give us suggestion on alternatives.
Colonel….Queens Park is only a name…this so called park lacks plants, lacks proper layout and design and lacks character. It is one bare piece of shoite. The NCC is a bare joke and knows very little of garden design and plants. This is the only city park and should be a photographer’s delight. Most parks in other islands boasts of exotic flowers and plants, historic character and delightful ambiance. Queens Park reminds me of a barren piece of land with a few struggling plants. This park needs redesigning to make it a place of serenity in the city. The name needs to be changed because it is an insult to the Queen to have a park looking like this.
Islandgirl. It IS a photographer’s delight…….at least on Christmas morning when every man and womanjack parade and show off their latest threads, if only the cameras could capture some of the decay , disarray ,neglect and garbage in the background ,maybe someone would sit up and take heed. But it appears as if this is the type of environment that we now prefer.
Not an hour ago I was parked in a busy car park on the South Coast, and was not really surprised to see quite a few drivers pull up in the middle of the well lit car park, got out and in full view of others, began pissing all over the place. Of course this is also part of our heritage.
Colonel…LOLL you are right , I forgot about the Christmas morn parade. Things have really gone to the dogs. I will excuse a dog for urinating in public BUT a MAN NO! It seems people have to get used to the L”AIR DE PISS around this island. Look at what this once clean and pretty island has become! A cesspool! We have NO PRIDE! They also need to rename the flower Pride of Barbados to Piss off Barbados. I wonder how many officials see this decay?
All this just because you could NOT convince me that Castro and his Cuba have failed miserably compared with the smaller and less resource rich Lee’s Singapore
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A quick footnote to this Singapore started to destroy its heritage some 3 decades ago but soon realised its mistakes as the adverse effect on its tourist trade became apparent. People can see shopping malls anywhere in the world. It reversed its policy and heritage buildings are restored and preserved.
The idea is to keep the people ignorant. Not just of their history and culture, but of the world in general. Isn’t that the way our educational system is now set up? When the people are ignorant, they are easy to subdue and rule. This is the way of the Taliban – and Mugabe.
Peltdownman
Actually you are wrong. This is the way of the Government of the United States of America, the financiers or its political parties and the conglomerate media houses that facilitate its interests. Wake up, pussy ..!
Wunna White people get me tired … fah real!
Islandgirl. At least the dog makes an effort to place its “mannie” out of sight , between one side of its body ,and a lampost / car wheel / tree / hydrant etc.
@Isln gal
FLEE …..what you doing in hay
where ur dog ?
@Keith Howard……someone call you? My dogs are fine they are sleeping at the moment what about yours? You have a wormy dog? Tek some salts a good dose please!
Yardbroom | January 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM |
Almost all discussions in Barbados appear to lead to White vs Black, when there is no need. The downside to this is when there is an issue of race with serious implications, it becomes trivial because of the expected glibness.
Brillant piece Yardbroom and couldn’t agree more when you said “The lesson for us is to learn from what has happened, and to assist when and where we can. We should not forget the past but not be weighed down by it, to an extent that it prevents our forward movement. We can “never” erase History but we owe it to those who have suffered to see issues in a clear light….and have the clearness of mind to acknowledge the contributions they made, because “we know” the circumstances of their contributions.”
Too many of us carry this on our shoulders like a cinder block.
@BAFBFP
Pure RACIST with total lack of understnding of how the global world operates. Individuals like you are why 95% of the independant colonial BLACK nations have FAILED. The sucsseful colonial countries are the ones that did not want independance but maintained close ties to thier mother countries. The Black race is not alone in this belief of self rule, several white nations have also FAILED by wanting to be independant but not anaylising the full consequences of that decision.
Colonel….”Islandgirl. At least the dog makes an effort to place its “mannie” out of sight”
Colonel don’t you understand the “every woman (white) wants a BIG BLACK Dick” mentality? So they must show it off at every turn? Look at how some of these DAWGS they keep feeling up their crotches in public?
Perhaps Keith is a member of this group! LMAO
Here is the Nation editorial catching up with social media on this issue.
http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/a-tragedy-on-the-rooftop
@BAFBFP
Actually you are wrong. This is the way of the Government of the United States of America, the financiers or its political parties and the conglomerate media houses that facilitate its interests. Wake up, pussy ..!
Wunna White people get me tired … fah real!
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Wuhloss Baffy! Your slip is showing fuh real! Please, stay in your little mental hole and believe that the whole world is against you, led of course, by the Great Satan, the United States. If thinking that makes you feel better, go for it PUSSY!!
For godsakes can someone says who owns this building?
David | January 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM |
For godsakes can someone says who owns this building?
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A. Ifill & BAFBFP (Barbados) Ltd
Some may find the following interesting.
BONHAMS TO SELL BELT BUCKLE BELIEVED TO BE THE OLDEST CRICKET ARTEFACT OUTSIDE BRITAIN
FEATURING THE ONLY KNOWN IMAGE OF A SLAVE PLAYING SPORT, IT WAS DISCOVERED ON A GRAVEL SPIT IN THE RIVER TWEED IN SCOTLAND
Bonhams is delighted to be selling the oldest known cricket artefact outside the British Isles, a belt buckle featuring an Afro-European slave playing cricket in Barbados, in its Sporting Memorabilia sale on 30 May 2012 in Chester.
The buckle, which has attracted a pre-sale estimate of £100,000 – 150,000, was discovered by Clive Williams, a retired advertising consultant from London, with a metal detector that had been given to him by his wife while on holiday near the River Tweed in the Scottish borders in 1979. He cleaned it to discover the figure of a mixed race slave playing cricket, holding a cricket bat and in the act of being bowled out. By chance, Williams was a cricket fanatic and had worked in the West Indies and so he began to research his find.
With the help of institutions such as the M.C.C. at Lord’s, The British Museum, the Royal Botanic Gardens at Kew, the National Portrait Gallery and the Victoria and Albert Museum, it has been concluded that the buckle features an Afro-European slave playing cricket in Barbados circa 1780. This makes it the earliest known secular sportsman depicted in the Americas.
It is believed to connect to the Hotham family who have centuries old connections to the West Indies, the Royal Navy and cricket. The Admiral Sir Alan Hotham (1876-1975) was a cricket devotee and lived upstream from where the Buckle was found. In the 1780s his ancestor, the 1st Baron Admiral William Hotham (1736-1813), served in the West Indies, notably Barbados, during the American War of Independence.
As a result of its depiction and provenance, it has been described by the Pulitzer-winning author, James A Michener as “a valued piece of social history”, while the late C L R James, the celebrated Afro-Trinidadian historian, journalist, theorist and writer on cricket, who orchestrated the research programme, said: “The little buckle and its fascinating story enrich cricket and must go on enriching the whole world…”
Since its discovery, the buckle has featured on postage stamps of Barbados, Jamaica and Trinidad & Tobago; gold and silver Royal Mint coins for the Central Bank of Barbados, International Cricket trophies and Man of the Match awards; and has appeared in publications including Muscular Learning: Cricket and Education in the Making of the British West Indies by Professor Clem Seecheran and Afro-Creole by Professor R D E Burton.
This is the first time that the buckle has appeared at auction.
Clive Williams and his daughter, Debora, are available for limited interview.
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For further information or to request an interview with Clive or Debora Williams, please contact Leonora Oldfield on 020 7468 5874 or leonora.oldfield@bonhams.com
NOTES FOR EDITORS
Bonhams, founded in 1793, is one of the world’s largest auctioneers of fine art and antiques. The present company was formed by the merger in November 2001 of Bonhams & Brooks and Phillips Son & Neale. In August 2002, the company acquired Butterfields, the principal firm of auctioneers on the West Coast of America. Today, Bonhams offers more sales than any of its rivals, through two major salerooms in London: New Bond Street and Knightsbridge; and a further three in the UK regions and Scotland. Sales are also held in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Carmel, New York and Connecticut in the USA; and Germany, France, Monaco, Hong Kong and Australia. Bonhams has a worldwide network of offices and regional representatives in 25 countries offering sales advice and valuation services in 60 specialist areas. For a full listing of upcoming sales, plus details of Bonhams specialist departments go to http://www.bonhams.com.
This kind of information is priceless and it only reinforces what the Topic is all about. it is a shame that only a privilege few would have access to viewing it in the future.
This heritage and cultural thing is for those people who are well off and can afford the luxury of pursuing its endeavors. How can a poor family be expected to appreciate or be involved in this cultural and heritage thing when daily they struggle to put food on the table. The other part of their struggle is finding the basic necessities for their family. Don’t be fooled by the wanna bees who follow in the tow of this cultural and heritage thing when in fact 99% of them can not even afford to. It is like the lovely talk surrounding the spoils of tourism; those who actually work their hearts and guts out do not fully benefit form its proceeds.
But isn’t it a shame that one of the major and upscale tourism entities in Barbados,namely Sandy Lane has earmarked and offered the Government of Barbados some 3 Million Dollars for a school for those with special needs, only to have the govermnent sit on it for almost a year. Isn’t it equally as shame to hear the Minister of Education lamenting that the government has no land to accommodate this worth venture, and set out to appeal, no,. beg someone in Barbados to give the government a piece of land. Is this not the same Minister who had no problems acquiring land for the purpose of sports fields and football stadium?
Isn’t it equally as shame that 90 % of the people in Barbados ,who own land and are proud to proclaim, at least every November, that ” these fields and hills beyond recall, are now our very own,” did not step forward to donate any land, leaving it once again up to Sir Charles Williams.
What about all of that land all across the island ,owned by various government departments,and most of which are covered in Bush? What about those pieces of land owned especially by the Anglican Church?
Perhaps we should change our national motto to, “I am all right Jack, to hell with you.” or ” Keep wha ya got and ketch wha ya can.”