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The Western world has declared war against the ‘tyrant’ Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. Some will question the motive of the war at this time.  Are we not battling an economic recession? A good case can be made why now and why Libya. Why not China? Why not Saudi Arabia? Why not Zimbabwe?

Lost in the debate is the phrase used by Western media, collateral damage. Already in the war just started Independent media sources have reported the deaths of several civilians. As is the case in Afghanistan and Iraq the argument put forward by the ‘aggressors’ is that ‘the end justifies the means’ .

There is a lot BU can write about events  currently unfolding in the ME. Let us not forget about heightened tensions in Yemen and other countries in the ME. Will the USA, France and Britain declare war on the other tyrants in the ME? For those who are not faint of heart, have a read of this article; American soldiers posing next to civilians killed in Afghanistan!

Regrettably Barbadians will not get the other side of the debate on matters like this one. Thankfully with the Internet the other side is a computer keyboard click away.


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  1. Okay okay, I just read one of the offerings presented by Iwatchya and aljazeera.

    Now the bulk of it is based on eye-witness accounts which speak about pro-democracy protesters and anti-government forces. The official definition of a force is a military group in “Uniform” which is why the taliban, Mujahideen, insurgents and al-Qaeda soldiers are referred to in the press as “fighters”. So where did these protestors get their uniforms so as to be transformed into a “force”? Also, it is clear in my mind that no one actually asked these “protestors” if it is democracy that they are interested in … My guess, and with some knowledge of the country is that they resent their leaders pro-African stance … that is what they are up in arms about … They want to be considered Arab, not African as the Colonel would want to have happen.

    This leads to the second illusion and that is of the mercenaries that are being captured and in many instances (not mentioned of course) killed by these pro-democracy people. They are easily identifiable because they are all Black! Stands to reason doesn’t it? Arabs spit on Africans as inferior, so now is the opportunity to cleanse the area by dubbing them mercenaries. Oh how easy it is to twist things.

    It speaks of the use of air attacks against civilian, debunked by the Russians in an earlier submission above and finally the death toll since violence began … Wait for it, wait for it, “could be as high as 2,000 people killed. Paris-based International Federation for Human Rights put the figure at 640 …” My God these are HUGE numbers, eclipsing Japans troubles, Pakistans and Haiti’s numbers, oh gee the Hutu-Tutsi cleansing was a skirmish in comparison. What you are seeing here with all this committing of resources and UN resolution and money and no-fly is not an over reaction, or an attempt to stave off a grander development, but the usual top end “let’s get rid of this guy” regime change in the process.

    European/ North American leaders care NOTHING about the lives of people who reside outside of their borders. That is a given. Every thing that you might there is that points in that direction is just fireworks … that actually sounds like a play on words, if it weren’t so serious …!


  2. @BU.David (2011.03.23.1428): “There was a bombing which killed 34 people at a bus top [sic] in Israel.

    One person (a woman) died; 20 others were injured.

    One must reasonably ask…

    If Israel is so very secure (erecting walls around the borders with Palestine et al) and it hasn’t seen a terrorist attack in four years, where exactly did this bomb (in an unattended bag) come from?

    Or, perhaps BU.David, you’re talking about another bus top [sic] attack which killed 34 people sometime in the past?


  3. @BAFBFP: “Oh how easy it is to twist things.

    Indeed.

    @BAFBFP: “It speaks of the use of air attacks against civilian, debunked by the Russians in an earlier submission above and finally the death toll since violence began … Wait for it, wait for it, “could be as high as 2,000 people killed. Paris-based International Federation for Human Rights put the figure at 640 …”

    But, please do note BAFBFP, CNN’s Nick Robertson, risking his own and his team’s life, asked the Government in power to show evidence supporting their claim of civilian casualties.

    No such evidence was presented to the observing world (to the best of my understanding).

    Perhaps you have other information?


  4. Chris…with all due respect….plz refrain from using that stupid ass cliche…’risking his own and his team’s life, ….
    As a journalist he and them have a choice, they are not soldiers nor are they ordered….but they do look nice in flak jackets ducking and running…lol.
    On another note, the pilot said the people welcomed him with open arms, while the gunners on the search and rescue craft shot about 7 innocent civilians who said…’ it was an accident and it is ok.’
    It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.


  5. @Techy: “As a journalist he and them have a choice, they are not soldiers nor are they ordered….but they do look nice in flak jackets ducking and running…

    Thus, they are risking their lives. Probably for monetary upside… But, then, who isn’t now-a-days?

    Let us please not fight between ourselves at this particular moment; we can fight later (probably while laughing).

    I believe we have many to bring back to ground in the short term; for everyone’s good….


  6. @ Chris…

    It seems as thought it depends on who you ask *smh*.
    http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE72K01N20110321?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0


  7. @Techy: “On another note, the pilot said the people welcomed him with open arms, while the gunners on the search and rescue craft shot about 7 innocent civilians who said…’ it was an accident and it is ok.’

    Could you please support your claim of seven innocent civilian deaths in this rescue mission?


  8. @Tech: “Could you please support your claim of seven innocent civilian deaths in this rescue mission?

    I retract that question in good faith.

    Unless, of course, you want to answer it out of anger against those who put it into your mind….


  9. Interesting reading…..
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/171016.html


  10. Were you dropped on your head as a child Chris?
    Where does Shot=killed?

    As I have said before, it depends on who you ask or where you go for your news and what your bias is.
    You dont want us to fight amongst ourselves but you misquote and misrepresent what I say….what do you think the outcome will be…..do I come across as passive to you?!?
    This was the report…..
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368750/Libya-war-US-rescue-team-shoot-6-civilians-rushing-greet-downed-F-15-crew.html
    The US has denied it.


  11. @Chris

    Looks like we are on the same side … I think …!


  12. @Tech: “Were you dropped on your head as a child Chris?

    Yes.

    I bounced.

    @Tech: “Where does Shot=killed?

    Most people who know anything about energy know that most people who experience high energy events quickly die.

    Shall we start laughing? Yet?


  13. A plane is shot down and lands in a field. Six villagers are shot as they approach the plane and they will still be happy to see these people who caused the plane to be in the sky bombing properties that were paid for by hard earned tax payers money.. “greeted like heroes..” WTF. Either Libyans are plane stupid, playin’ stupid or just plain stupid…!


  14. @BAFBFP: “Six villagers are shot as they approach the plane and they will still be happy to see these people who caused the plane to be in the sky bombing properties that were paid for by hard earned tax payers money..

    I hope I’m not asking too much here, Brother, but could you please provide supporting evidence to your claims?


  15. I just read the article … that’s all. That is what it said. Whose side are you on anyway …?


  16. @BAFBFP: “I just read the article … that’s all. That is what it said. Whose side are you on anyway …?

    This might be a little difficult for you to understand…

    I’m on ***no one’s side***.

    Or, perhaps put another way, I’m on ***everyone’s side***.

    Please deal with it.


  17. Link submitted by Ras:

    TARGET LIBYA – The devils always go to great lengths to wear a correct covering

    Obama Brings International State Terrorism To Ghana


  18. @BU.David: “The devils always go to great lengths to wear a correct covering

    As some say, jolly good fscking fun…

    Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, you have an audience currently engaged in a discussion here and now in Bim.

    Might you, BU.David, consider the audience here in Bim as serious?


  19. @Techie

    Chris…with all due respect….plz refrain from using that stupid ass cliche…’risking his own and his team’s life, ….
    As a journalist he and them have a choice, they are not soldiers nor are they ordered….but they do look nice in flak jackets ducking and running…lol.
    On another note, the pilot said the people welcomed him with open arms, while the gunners on the search and rescue craft shot about 7 innocent civilians who said…’ it was an accident and it is ok.’
    It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

    The US networks especially have a term they like to use to refer to journalists accompanying the mission, embedded!


  20. Some issues demand that positions be taken. To do otherwise is just wasting time. I really wont be dealing with anything that is time wasting


  21. @ David….
    Yes, I know of the ‘title’. I think it was done because of the public outcry during the Vietnam war.
    Which is why when these reporters are caught while embedded, they should experience the same treatment that would be meted out to a soldier.
    The pen is mightier than the sword.


  22. It seems from all media reports that I have seen so far in Libya that these reporters are embedded in every other encampment but the Government’s … Now why is that …?


  23. @BU.David: “The US networks especially have a term they like to use to refer to journalists accompanying the mission, embedded!

    Meanwhile, you are so far from the action that you couldn’t even e-mail those in question.

    I wrong???


  24. @ST”My predictions, eventually watch Pakistan break and the House of Saud have a rude awakening.”

    —-

    Only ‘if’ you think that both of those irk or have irked the OWG enough (as did Gaddafi) and therefore ‘must’
    be moved.

    I think Iran will be next. Gaddafi had to be first because he refused to toe the OWG line AND had a barrelfull of money and oil, capable of directing attitudes and policies of nations.

    He thus had to go.


  25. @Bimbro ”The man wiv no name!! | March 23, 2011 at 11:03 AM | Crusoe, what’s the point of having armed forces, if u don’t use them from time to time?”
    ————

    Kabraam! Bimbro acknowledges a huge matter (inadvertently?).

    Who funds the armed forces, via their actions?

    Is it (a) their country of origin (b) the UN or (c) Iraq and now in this case, Libya?

    If (c) why should the country of staging, pay them back for a war that was not signed for by their ‘legitimate’ government?

    How have Iraq’s funds been spent since that war? Not repaying those who invaded, surely?

    Who is to fund this particular picnic in Libya?

    There is no obligation on either of those countries to repay for monies spent. Or will the repayment be via contracts for rebuilding, as per Iraq?

    Hence, Bimbro’s reference to the use of armed forces…as sources of income in these hard times…

    Halli…halliii…halli…bur…

    And no, I don’t mean Haile Burry….

    Life is sweet!

  26. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    “Arabs spit on Africans as inferior,”….

    BAF, dat’s an interesting observation of urs cos, for years now, blacks, like Tech have been trying to convince me dat ‘BLACKS built d pyramids’!!!! LOL!! mussee as slaves!! – not Tech specifically, jes, like him!! – u know, of dat weird frame of mine!!

    I’m glad that the arabs regard black Africans as inferior cos black Africans certainly regard West Indians as inferior to them so, from dat point of view, I’m with the Arabs!!

    “European/ North American leaders care NOTHING about the lives of people who reside outside of their borders. That is a given.”

    BAF, when u make the above statement i urge u to remember Janet, which without their assistance, u mightn’t b here now! stop an refleck!!

    “On another note, the pilot said the people welcomed him with open arms, while the gunners on the search and rescue craft shot about 7 innocent civilians who said…’ it was an accident and it is ok.’”

    Tech, got to sympathise with ur argument there. it’s not completely ok, but excusable in the fog of war. mind u, i am concerned that it always seems to b the Americans making these mistakes as opposed to our far more intelligent British troops, which begs the question about the American general level of education! mind u, Bim in too far from day – could explain one or two things!!

    “WTF. Either Libyans are plane stupid, playin’ stupid or just plain stupid…!”

    BAF, they’re none of those things. Simply grateful to their saviours for rescuing them from tyranny! You live in Bim and wouldn’t understand this. They don’t, and do!!

    “Kabraam! Bimbro acknowledges a huge matter (inadvertently?).”

    LOL! Crusoe, ey, i doan do nutten inadvertently!! what a cheek!! LOL!!

    Crus, i hope u don’t misunderstand my meaning. i was saying so genuinely. i mean, what else COULD b the point of being a superpower and not being able to go to the assistance of a people in distress. I GENUINELY wish they could now press on to other places like Zimbabwe, Saudi n d res. U might or mightn’t appreciate it, but I bet the peoples of those counties WOULD!!

    ‘mornig!! i up while wunna people sleeping!! whaloss!! 🙂


  27. The man wiv no name!!

    Talk ’bout anything else, not this … You too far to the right, too far cross dey to be affected by this. I would tell you this though. If it is that Africans in the UK spit on West Indian immigrants because they view them as lackeys and “subservients” they must be acting on good information … wah you think?

  28. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    BAF, just shows how little u know. it’s not because they view them as lackeys or subservient – nobody can b more subservient than an african or indian, when they want to get ahead! – no, it’s because Africans have ALWAYS regarded West Indians as being less intelligent than they are ever since we’ve both been in this country and that’s going back at least 60 yrs, in modern times! BAF, uv just shown me that u don’t know as much as u thought u did, at least on this subject! u should try living in Britain for a while. give u an amusing little example, there’re millions but i won’t bodda. looka, my ex-wife is African. one of the most beautiful black women pun d planet when i firse met her – one of many. had a lot of african chicks! anyhow, even though we’ve remained ‘good’ friends (we chat on the phone often), yuh tink i can visit her home?! no man, n why! cos she has AFRICAN neighbours n she’s worried bout what they would think bout a WEST INDIAN visiting her! we meet, from time to time, but away from day! she doesn’t seem too keen on AFRICANS seeing us together anywhere. such is the hatred fuh West Indians among africans over hay (although she n i had a great time when we were alone together years ago), coupled with the insane criminal activity of the Jamaicans which gives them even more excuse to dissociate themselves from us. It’s not only in the UK. I’ve seen a prog. on the States n it’s the same there! Doan tell me u din know this! if not, u should try living hay or there, some more!

    On the other hand, my current gal’s African too. However, she’s a gem and the complete opposite. She dun seem to mine who c us where, there, or wherever. Usually, im so shocked by her willingness to be demonstratively loving towards me in public cos, as an african, im so used to the complete opposite from them!
    ‘subservient’?!! B, doan metion dah when it comes to dem man. nobody can b more subservient dan an african if he/she thinks they’re going to get the sack. c them knelling n begging n crying with no shame at all. beleive me bro, 99.99% uh dum r a complete waise uh time. jes look at d state uh Africa!!


  29. The man wiv no name!!

    You do not like Africans, but you like African women … (Frankly I see the thing about the women … they do not have a race or a nationality, they are simply individual … I get it) On the other hand, there must be a reason why you stand out so much in African company, how they could so easily pick you out in a crowd. BIMBRO if you is a short ass red man with a bald head, wha you expect de people to do …? LOL

  30. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    BAF, if u caan discern an african from a west indian when u c one den, there’s no point talking to u on this subject as u just wouldn’t understand. some people prefer to wear rose-coloured glasses. it seems to me that u r one. good luck, B!!


  31. Bro I ain’ gun lie to yah see, but to me they look the same… ! Serious …!

  32. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    lol! yuh mek me laugh B. mus b consequence of living in Bim. maybe there aren’t many africans down there. mind u, assure u that THEY can recognise YOU in an instant! in a war it’s always useful to b able to recognise ur enemy!

    Take care, B!!


  33. ….”BAF, dat’s an interesting observation of urs cos, for years now, blacks, like Tech have been trying to convince me dat ‘BLACKS built d pyramids’!!!…..

    Interesting….I remember these exchanges with BIMBRO….but….TMWNN says he is NOT Bimbro……what an ass….and you say the Brits are smart???

  34. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    Tech, That’s funny cos i didn’t have those discussions with u – an u think that YOU r smart!! LOL!! Note I said, ‘LIKE Tech’!


  35. Poor fella…keep on keeping on….you have a good teacher!!


  36. Some cnn news clips today>

    Egypt>Egypt women protesters forced to take ‘virginity tests’
    A leading rights group says the Egyptian army arrested, tortured and forced women to take “virginity tests” during protests earlier this month.Amnesty International is calling on the authorities in Cairo to investigate.It says at least 18 female protesters were arrested after army officers cleared Tahrir Square on 9 March.
    It says they were then beaten, given electric shocks and strip searched.

    Syria>CNN) — Escalating violence between Syrian security forces and anti-government protesters claimed 15 people Wednesday in the city of Daraa, witnesses and rights activists said. Syrian state television reported the government fired the governor of Daraa province, a flash point of anti-government protests.

    “The United States is deeply troubled by violence and civilian deaths in Daraa at the hands of security forces,” State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in a statement Wednesday.

    His statement expressed U.S. condemnation for what it called “the Syrian government’s use of violence, intimidation and arbitrary arrests in Daraa to hinder the ability of its people to freely exercise their universal rights.

    “We call on the Syrian government to exercise restraint and refrain from violence against peaceful protesters,” Toner’s statement said.

    ————

    Looks like the governments of those countries are doing EXACTLY what Gaddafi is accused of doing, Nato needs to go into those countries too, no?

    But, why does Toner ‘call on the Syrian government to exercise restraint?’. Rather soft words, not using force like Libya, why?

    NO MAN, go in just like in Libya.

    As for ‘virginity tests’????? WTF?

    Wonder why Cameron is so keen on having NATO take over the operation, the knowledge that ground troops will be necessary and the Bristish people will be very annoyed at the bodybags coming home? So, gotta share it and reduce numbers for any one country?

    This thing is now starting. Another fiasco. But, maybe everything is collateral damage to the OWG?


  37. Crusoe

    I can thank the West for one thing only and that is the phrase …

    “‘Nuff said …!”

  38. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    Tech, why do u always have to b so rude. I’m sure u weren’t dragged-up, were u?!!

    BAF, we’re hated for reasons like this little, piece of filth!

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3490017/Night-Stalker-Britains-worst-sex-attacker.html

  39. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    Note where he from, as if anybody needed telling!!


  40. Bimbro , your reference to where he is from is unfair and irrelevant. Agreed, what a brute, horrific and way past serial status, but dont you think that more than where he came from, this has something to do with it, as the newsclip said ‘Jamaican-born Grant, who was raised by his gran before coming to the UK aged 15, was finally captured in November 2009. Psychologists said he was a gerontophile – getting vile kicks from sex with old people. They believe he had been abused by an older relative’.

  41. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    Crusoe, please stop fooling urself bro. Virtually every black criminal in Britian’s jails, and not, is a ****ing Jamaican! How many times do u need to b told that 1n1 make 2! Put away the rose coloured glasses Crus n FACE FACTS my friend!! There’s DEFINITELY something wrong with those people!!

  42. The man wiv no name!! Avatar
    The man wiv no name!!

    n the more ***less Bajan women mate wid dem, the more Bim will become like Jamaica for being ravaged by crime. In fact, I get the impression it’s well on it’s way already!!


  43. @Crusoe
    Dave Cameron have no choice but to encourage NATO to take the lead in this Libyan debacle. Since coming into power he has decimated the once proud and invincible HM Forces (RN,RAF and Brit Army) to the status of a territorial Defence Force,with large cuts in defence spending and reequipping.
    What a pity that today is not like the old days, when these frigging leaders had to actually lead their troops into battle.
    We all thought that this Cameron guy was a pacifist. Was’n he the guy who apoligised,and damned the British Army for an incident that occured in Northern Ireland , some forty years ago, when he was just 4/5 years old?


  44. Libya Invasion Was Planned 10 Years In Advance (video)

    Interview with General Wesley Clark: "We need real investigation of some of the abuses of authority that are apparently going on at the Executive branch. … We’ve never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I’ve seen that for a long time.”…

    Click here to watch and read, "Libya Invasion Was Planned 10 Years In Advance"…


  45. It is amazing how people used to just ignore or pass off these instances as conspiracy theories…..then ….enter Wikileaks.
    Guess they are not as far fetched as some would have others believe.
    Oh what a tangled web we weave…….


  46. News now reports that per cnn ‘At least 24 people have been killed in violent clashes between protesters and security forces in and around the city of Daraa, Syria, witnesses say.”

    Together with deaths in Egypt and injured in Jordan, resulting from protesters ‘for democracy’ being slaughtered by the respective security forces….

    Will Nato and the UN have the balls to enter the majority of the Middle East as ‘peacekeepers’?

    Is Iran arming heavily, in anticipation, as we write?

    Just how far off are we from a full blown Middle East occupation and war?

    Serious questions.


  47. The New York Times
    Up to 1 Million Have Fled Ivory Coast Crisis, U.N. Says http://nyti.ms/fhajCQ


  48. Israel.

    The world doesn’t hear about these things!

    As Palestinian Hamas terrorist started launching Rockets again* into innocent Israeli civilian terrority, preventing children from attending school, and NO other nation in the world, other than Israel, would tolerate this, as they have done time and time again, UNTIL….. they can’t take it any more…..we’ll see what happens if these Terrorist continue this TERROR!

    However:

    “Last week, Palestinian children diagnosed with Cancer visited Israel’s only ski resort located in Mt. Hermon, in nothern Israel. The children, accompanied by their families, enjoyed the snow and slopes along with IDF reservists from the Alpine Unit.”

    Of course, Israel never does anything good, they just sit quietly as Hamas Terrorist, as they have done over and over again, terrorised innocent Israeli citizens, with Jewish Doctors, in Israeli Hospitals, daily attending to numerous Palestinian children, and other Arabs, but, the world media hardly ever, carry these wonderful stories, just like the IDF reservists who give their time to make a little joy for these very sick, (cancer) ridden Palestinian children, yet the world doesn’t hear of these and so many other good, humanatarian things done by Israel!

    @ Crusoe, yes, my friend, all of the factors, that must converge, Biblically, in the Middle East, are been poured into the crucible, that will ignite, a full blown War, its just a matter of time!

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