Taking this argument to its logical (and probably absurd) conclusion, it would be interesting indeed to see what would be the outcome for a hypothetical case where an atheistic gay couple’s right to adopt was challenged on the basis of their beliefs…

Why memtion particularly, that is a commonwealth country, are you suggesting that we should move away from the commonwealth or that the commonwealth society is no different than the USA society, therefore there is no difference in appointing Mr Gibson? Well, you are probably right but the laws are fundamentally different and that’s where the problem is. Are you also suggesting that we change from the commonwealth law to the USA law, where we will have to re-educate an entire legal faternity just to accomodate one man?

TOP 10 SIGNS YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN…

10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by
other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.

8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah,
but you don`t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic
groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods
sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back
to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically
established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing
dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that
Earth is a few generations old.

4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those
who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity
in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant”
and “loving.”

3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to
convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues”
may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers.
You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the
Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

These comments could apply in similar or modified form to every other religion on earth. Religion, like god, is a human construct and needs to be treated as such, i.e. subjected to scrutiny like any other manmade doctrine or philosophy.

“The problem is that once one takes a leap of faith and believe something for which there is no objective evidence, he opens himself up to believing any kind of absurdity. Belief is what you need when you don’t know. Gods, holy books, and spiritual ideas are all things we make up and just feel are true. Belief is the antithesis of reason.
Rationalists understand the difference between knowledge and belief. They choose to refrain from the latter. If we can’t know objectively and scientifically, we remain without knowledge until knowledge is attainable. To believe something without strong evidence is delusion.”

Charles Knighton

@Charles

Following your argument to a point. The rationalists struggle however to explain creation, big bang theory notwithstanding.

The ongoing debate over homosexuality and Christianity should be required reading for all. Could it not be any clearer that the Bible, depending on version and translation, together with a judicious selection of passages, can be used to “prove” any “truth” one wishes to espouse? Why do so many continue to allow the charlatans of both the priestly and lay classes to instruct them in how to think and what to believe when the source for such belief is seemingly so ambiguous? The Ministry of Education’s push for critical thinking skills will headlong into instruction, including instruction within schools, of the “certain” existence of angels, Satan, and a God students will pray (chant a spell) to help them make moral decisions in life and to keep evil influences away, a God who will severely punish them if they do not meet his standards. How novel; critical thinking and sorcery under one roof !

There is something inherently insulting about the proposition that we’d be incapable of choosing right from wrong if we didn’t fear that a capricious despot up in the sky would condemn us to hell. But the biggest flaw in this argument is its assumption that belief in God does make its adherents choose good behaviour over bad. If that were the case, this world —which is full of believers —- would be a far better place. In God’s name humans have slaughtered infidels, enslaved millions from other tribes, burned witches, persecuted those who were “different” and mutilated the genitalia of defenseless children. (Hardly an exhaustive list —–feel free to add your own atrocities). If that’s the morality we’d be lacking in a Bible-less and Godless world, I am all for it.

Charles Knighton

In a related matter:

EU court bans insurance sex discrimination

 

By RAF CASERT

The Associated Press
Tuesday, March 1, 2011; 6:41 AM

BRUSSELS — The European Union high court ruled Tuesday that insurers and pension plans cannot offer different contracts for men and women because that amounts to sex discrimination.

Under Tuesday’s ruling, women drivers across Europe would see their car insurance costs rise even though they are considered safer on the road. Pension and medical insurance plans would have to change when the new rules become effective from Dec. 21, 2012.

Insurers grudgingly accepted the ruling, but say the change will be bad for customers and maintain their current policies are fair. They insist that the typically longer lives of women should be taken into account when offering life insurance policies, for instance.

Full Article

@BU.David: “Many believe the ‘scientist view’ can be challenged if one accepts the role spirituality plays in our lifes. Spirituality in this case is not defined by its religious definition.

Just to be clear, I don’t have a problem with anyone believing in anything they want, so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else and the believer(s) is open to and is willing to honestly debate challenges to their belief system. And to admit they might be wrong.

This, fundamentally, is the Scientific Method.

Science and Religion (and one Religion vs. another Religion) are not actually at War. It is only the when the extremists (of any of the various camps) enter the picture that it appears to be so.

(Plus, let’s face it — there’s a lot of money to be made during War.)

Correction the above is from Charles Knighton

Don’t want this conversation to go esoteric which from experience will raised the ire of some members of the BU family.

The difficulty BU has with the gay debate is – to what extent are we prepared to accept homosexuality on the basis of freedom to engage in lifestyles of choice versus that of a genetic difference.

@ David
This whole situation is very interesting. As far as I can remember Christianity seem to be like a double edged sword;
From a boy I have, and still is doing my best to understand Genesis. Which is according to the bible is the starting of creation. It was first Adam. Then it was Eve. They became sexually involved and had two sons, Caine and A’bel . But Cain killed his brother A’bel. A he was banish to the land of Nod, and there he found his wife; Now through out the beginning no mention was ever made about anyone but Adam and Eve. But now another female shows up without any explanation of to how she came to be. Then we move on to the cleansing of the Earth because man had messed up. So GOD told Noah to build this boat, and bring two of everything along with his family. After that the world was populated by Noah and his children; This book that’s so important to many has some discrepancies; I am not going to even try to understand about it anymore. But I can see that most of this is about the European’s way of life for sure. Homosexuality was going on from way,way back in time; The funny part to all this is that it seems ok with in the church, since many of them are into the homosexuality; Right here at home in the US a catholic school is closing because they has paid out so much money for all the mess the priest has done to all the young boys; Things are very much out of hand, and getting worse. I can see where Bentley is going, and I respect both him, Islandgal246, and Kinghton,s views. It seems to be getting worse instead of better; So at this point in time we need so kind of DIVINE INTERVENTION towards change;

@ Charles S Cadogan

Are my views and Knightons views making you THINK? Are you afraid of THINKING differently? Are you AFRAID of seeing that you may be WRONG?

@islandgal246: “Studies have shown that we are actually biased in our visual perception —- literally how we see the world—- because of our belief systems. This cognitive bias is not an occasional problem. It is a systematic source of errors.

Could you please, “islandgal246”, cite these studies?

Who were the authors? Who were on the supervisory committees?

Who published them?

@Christopher
Genesis Chp 1
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

The word lesbian can refer to a woman’s identity, to desire, or to activity between women. (Taken from google) Which explains not just same attraction but taking that attraction to female/female sexual relations.

God condones male and female sexual behaviour.

Christopher where in the Bible does God condone female with female sexual behaviour?

All religions are endogamous in their doctrines, they do not entertain or accept external influences, so my question is why the focus on Christianity and not the others? is there truly an agenda to suppress Christianity and isn’t it laughable to speak of equality when the whole concept of equality comes from the teachings of Christ? LOL ‘remember he taught us this ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. He was the first judge that pronounced justice on the earth. The concept of the law came from him.

@Different: “Christopher where in the Bible does God condone female with female sexual behaviour?

That wasn’t the question asked. A question which I note you haven’t answered.

Please answer the question.

And, further, please answer this:

Where in the Bible does God condone the use of electricity?

Where in the Bible does God condone the use of low-frequency photons?

For Jesus’ sake, where in the Bible does God condone the use of Gravity???

@ Christopher the link to studies http://weblamp.princeton.edu/~psych/psychology/research/pronin/pubs/2008%20Self%20and%20Other.pdf

@David. I applaud your position, your exposition and your caution and your reality.

The question to my mind is simply, “What is best for the child?” The Court has to take into account the effect on the child should it have the genetics that render it homosexual. The duty of the State is towards the child, not the parents.

I agree with the court. It cannot afford to take the chance on any child turning out to be homosexual and then subjected to mental and maybe even physical abuse by adoptive parents because of it.

That the leaders of the Church of England should not see and applaud this point when almost 70% of its clergy are practicing homosexual is perverse. Worse, it displays and extremism on the same level as its counterparts in other religions.

I dislike public displays of sexual preferences of any kind. However, the gay community has had an Everest to climb in terms of equal rights. This always brings out the extremists who, job done, are reluctant to return to anonymity. Consider that we are, almost all of us, descended from slaves and had it not been for extremists, we would be no further ahead. For women in our society it has been even more difficult to attain equality and only by dint of extremists is that cause being advanced. So, while I may regret the extremism, I see its necessity.

Many years ago, I went to see the movie Ghandi. Magnificent movie. However, the one part that left me with a lasting impression was when a killer of Muslim’s was asked how he could atone for his sins. Ghandi told him to adopt a Muslim orphan, but to raise him as a Muslim. How sad that the man-appointed leaders of the Church of England and, indeed, of other religions, have not the wit nor the wisdom nor the charity to attain the heights of one who was divinely inspired.

However, how heartening that the British courts have got the message. I suspect that the Almighty and his Son are applauding the the Courts, not their man-appointed representatives on earth.

@ Christopher
I read in the Bible somewhere that Jesus said that if one returned from the dead they would not believe. Upon that note, with you, I rest my case.

@Different: “I read in the Bible somewhere that Jesus said that if one returned from the dead they would not believe.

Wow. Such authority!!! I can certainly put that against a database query…

(Not!!!)

Weirdly, I’m almost missing Zoe….

If I wasn’t before…..I am convinced now!!

ReLIEgion IS the cause most of the problems in the world!!
Every topic, every discussion, comes a full circle to this point…..doubt me?
Read BU!!

@ islandgal…..

Glad you see it also…there is hope yet..lol.

@new…..

You must be new for real…..new born, new comer…..new testament…lol.

@ David
Is it really? Bim is not signed up to the CCJ? We are still running to Britain to resolve court cases?
Well, that says it all.

@new

The CCJ is the final court for matters pertaining to the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas.