Homosexuality Trumps Christianity In British High Court

Eunice and Owen Johns .Photo: JANE MINGAY

We sit as secular judges serving a multicultural community of many faiths. We are sworn (we quote the judicial oath) to ‘do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of this realm, without fear or favour, affection or ill will’. The judges acknowledged that there was a “tension” in the case of Mr and Mrs Johns between the rights of individuals to maintain their religious beliefs and the rights of homosexual people to live free from discrimination.Telegraph

A court decision which has the potential to shake the pillars of Barbadian society was recently handed down in England, coincidentally a Commonwealth jurisdiction. Barbados similar to England is a country built on the back of the Christian faith. The decision by a British Court to deny a Christian couple the right be foster carers because of their view on homosexuality will no doubt have wide ranging implications for how countries like Barbados reorder their societies.

The learned judges based the decision on the right of homosexuals to equality which “should take precedence” over the right of Christians to manifest their beliefs and moral values. Contrary to a view held by many Barbadians that our laws are influenced by Christian beliefs the judges were of the mind that “Britain was a “largely secular”, multi-cultural country in which the laws of the realm “do not include Christianity”.

BU’s view on homosexuality should be known, bigoted or not, having posted several blogs on the subject. What is becoming clearer by the day, especially for traditionalists, is the need to accept that Barbados sooner rather than later will have to relaxed its views on homosexuality. Careful observation of the local media reveals that the so-called ‘gay agenda’ is alive and well. To quote the Telegraph, “the ruling in the case of Owen and Eunice Johns, from Derby, is the latest in a series of judgments in which Christians have been defeated in the courts for breaching equality laws by manifesting their beliefs on homosexuality.”

The issue which Barbados will have to resolve is how a country operating in a global village which operates vastly using Christian precepts, a debatable point we know is called to action by this and other recent court rulings in the Motherland. Of interest is the recent stoking of the issue by Bajan homosexuals reputed to have sought asylum in Canada citing intimidation and victimization.

 

 

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0 thoughts on “Homosexuality Trumps Christianity In British High Court


  1. I am posting this because it is probably one of the most ‘to-the-point’ articles ever written about the continuing no-rights of the Caribbean gay community. One person who commented on this articles claimed it was an affront to Caribbean-Africans, mostly because he read it with the usual blinkers that many live with. So do read carefully. Time for change!

    http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/A_harangue_on_homos-116893343.html

    And just to avoid the few ‘dopes’ that will probably start asking me or insinuating that I am gay…no I am not….but sometimes wish I was…they are mostly creative, beautiful, successful people who many times live a better productive life than many heterosexuals….their unions usually far more together than some too. Every group within its society has their problems sad enough…and no one should be pointing fingers (those who live in glass houses and all dat!). ‘Nuff said.


  2. Taking this argument to its logical (and probably absurd) conclusion, it would be interesting indeed to see what would be the outcome for a hypothetical case where an atheistic gay couple’s right to adopt was challenged on the basis of their beliefs…


    • Here is a comment posted on the Telegraph website which is food for thought:

      The judgment asserts that there is no hierarchy of rights, but itself implies there is one in which the right to practise one’s religion is subordinated to the secular assumptions about equality.”

      Firstly, this is not about practice of a religion: It’s about freedom of thought.

      Secondly, where did those “secular” assumptions about equality come from? They are most certainly not self-evident, as the Yanks say, or they would be found everywhere.
      The only reason for believing in equality is ‘In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, Slave nor Free, woman nor man.’ It took thousands of years for Europe to get the message, and Christian Europe only.

      Without a valid reason for believing in equality, the decision as to who gets to have rights and who doesn’t, belongs to the people holding the keys to the jail. As the wheels come off, fewer and fewer people are granted ‘Liberty, Fraternity and Equality’.

      Hold onto your gluteals, folks – the slippery slope is right in front of us.


  3. @The problem is not that the couple are Xtians… it is that they can not give equal treatment to a homosexual child. The problem you pose would only arise if the atheists said they could not support a Xtains child right to its faith. And such Atheists should not be allowed to sponsor children either.


  4. Why memtion particularly, that is a commonwealth country, are you suggesting that we should move away from the commonwealth or that the commonwealth society is no different than the USA society, therefore there is no difference in appointing Mr Gibson? Well, you are probably right but the laws are fundamentally different and that’s where the problem is. Are you also suggesting that we change from the commonwealth law to the USA law, where we will have to re-educate an entire legal faternity just to accomodate one man?


  5. TOP 10 SIGNS YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN…

    10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by
    other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

    9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people
    evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
    claim that we were created from dirt.

    8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

    7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah,
    but you don`t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered
    all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic
    groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

    6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods
    sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit
    impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back
    to life and then ascended into the sky.

    5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically
    established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing
    dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that
    Earth is a few generations old.

    4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those
    who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity
    in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant”
    and “loving.”

    3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to
    convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues”
    may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

    2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers.
    You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
    remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

    1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the
    Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

    These comments could apply in similar or modified form to every other religion on earth. Religion, like god, is a human construct and needs to be treated as such, i.e. subjected to scrutiny like any other manmade doctrine or philosophy.


  6. @Bentley Well said!

    You have shown the hocus pocus of Christianity! Oooh how they must be fuming and trying to get as much Bible verses to counteract what you have just stated. LOLLLLLLLLLL ROFLMAO


  7. “The problem is that once one takes a leap of faith and believe something for which there is no objective evidence, he opens himself up to believing any kind of absurdity. Belief is what you need when you don’t know. Gods, holy books, and spiritual ideas are all things we make up and just feel are true. Belief is the antithesis of reason.
    Rationalists understand the difference between knowledge and belief. They choose to refrain from the latter. If we can’t know objectively and scientifically, we remain without knowledge until knowledge is attainable. To believe something without strong evidence is delusion.”

    Charles Knighton


    • @Charles

      Following your argument to a point. The rationalists struggle however to explain creation, big bang theory notwithstanding.


  8. The ongoing debate over homosexuality and Christianity should be required reading for all. Could it not be any clearer that the Bible, depending on version and translation, together with a judicious selection of passages, can be used to “prove” any “truth” one wishes to espouse? Why do so many continue to allow the charlatans of both the priestly and lay classes to instruct them in how to think and what to believe when the source for such belief is seemingly so ambiguous? The Ministry of Education’s push for critical thinking skills will headlong into instruction, including instruction within schools, of the “certain” existence of angels, Satan, and a God students will pray (chant a spell) to help them make moral decisions in life and to keep evil influences away, a God who will severely punish them if they do not meet his standards. How novel; critical thinking and sorcery under one roof !

    There is something inherently insulting about the proposition that we’d be incapable of choosing right from wrong if we didn’t fear that a capricious despot up in the sky would condemn us to hell. But the biggest flaw in this argument is its assumption that belief in God does make its adherents choose good behaviour over bad. If that were the case, this world —which is full of believers —- would be a far better place. In God’s name humans have slaughtered infidels, enslaved millions from other tribes, burned witches, persecuted those who were “different” and mutilated the genitalia of defenseless children. (Hardly an exhaustive list —–feel free to add your own atrocities). If that’s the morality we’d be lacking in a Bible-less and Godless world, I am all for it.

    Charles Knighton


  9. I tell yuh Britain gone mad but yuh wun believe me, now c??? News to me that Britain ent a christian country. maybe it’s a muslim one! steupse!


    • In a related matter:

      EU court bans insurance sex discrimination

       

      By RAF CASERT

      The Associated Press
      Tuesday, March 1, 2011; 6:41 AM

      BRUSSELS — The European Union high court ruled Tuesday that insurers and pension plans cannot offer different contracts for men and women because that amounts to sex discrimination.

      Under Tuesday’s ruling, women drivers across Europe would see their car insurance costs rise even though they are considered safer on the road. Pension and medical insurance plans would have to change when the new rules become effective from Dec. 21, 2012.

      Insurers grudgingly accepted the ruling, but say the change will be bad for customers and maintain their current policies are fair. They insist that the typically longer lives of women should be taken into account when offering life insurance policies, for instance.

      Full Article


    • @Charles

      You have eloquently posited the view which Chris Halsall often tables on BU i.e. challenging those who operate based on a ‘leap of faith”, interesting indeed.

      Many believe the ‘scientist view’ can be challenged if one accepts the role spirituality plays in our lifes. Spirituality in this case is not defined by its religious definition.


  10. @BU.David: “Many believe the ‘scientist view’ can be challenged if one accepts the role spirituality plays in our lifes. Spirituality in this case is not defined by its religious definition.

    Just to be clear, I don’t have a problem with anyone believing in anything they want, so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else and the believer(s) is open to and is willing to honestly debate challenges to their belief system. And to admit they might be wrong.

    This, fundamentally, is the Scientific Method.

    Science and Religion (and one Religion vs. another Religion) are not actually at War. It is only the when the extremists (of any of the various camps) enter the picture that it appears to be so.

    (Plus, let’s face it — there’s a lot of money to be made during War.)


    • Don’t want this conversation to go esoteric which from experience will raised the ire of some members of the BU family.

      The difficulty BU has with the gay debate is – to what extent are we prepared to accept homosexuality on the basis of freedom to engage in lifestyles of choice versus that of a genetic difference.


  11. @David | March 1, 2011 at 8:39 AM |
    reference the posting on the Telegraph website march 01 which includes the statements “…where did those secular assumptions about equality come from? The only reason for believing in equality is in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, Slave nor Free, woman nor man.”

    Secular assumptions of democracy and equality were largely Greek constructs thousands of years before Christ. The problem with the Greek thinking on equality was that it applied if one were a Greek citizen, all others need not apply. The Telegraph writer posits a parallel system wherein belief in equality applies applies only to those of a Christian persuasion. Both assume outsiders were either too ignorant or too barbaric to appreciate equalities nuances.


  12. To condone homosexuality is evil. To love all men is righteous. To be patient with all men is holy.

    When a gay couple desires children wouldn’t a male and female egg have to fertilize whether by test tube or the sexual act or implantation. Man and woman produce children. When you can prove to me, that beyond a shadow of a doubt, a gay couple can produce children I will accept that homosexuality is a natural part of healthy living.

    No apologies. Homosexuality is an unhealthy act and it is contrary to nature and God’s will. The Creator designed, created and provided for male and female to become one and reproduce.

    We have a choice. I choose the way of the Almighty God. Is that discrimination? Does the homosexual accept christianity’s belief that man and woman should be together exclusively? No. Then do they discriminate? What a man and woman can conceive there is no way under this sun that a man with a man can achieve through consummation – that is fundamental to reproduction which was The Creator’s instruction to the couple.


  13. @Different: “To condone homosexuality is evil.

    Why?

    Do please note that the definition of “homosexuality” is same-sex attraction and/or sexual relations.

    Please do tell us where in the Bible Lesbianism is forbidden.


  14. @ David
    This whole situation is very interesting. As far as I can remember Christianity seem to be like a double edged sword;
    From a boy I have, and still is doing my best to understand Genesis. Which is according to the bible is the starting of creation. It was first Adam. Then it was Eve. They became sexually involved and had two sons, Caine and A’bel . But Cain killed his brother A’bel. A he was banish to the land of Nod, and there he found his wife; Now through out the beginning no mention was ever made about anyone but Adam and Eve. But now another female shows up without any explanation of to how she came to be. Then we move on to the cleansing of the Earth because man had messed up. So GOD told Noah to build this boat, and bring two of everything along with his family. After that the world was populated by Noah and his children; This book that’s so important to many has some discrepancies; I am not going to even try to understand about it anymore. But I can see that most of this is about the European’s way of life for sure. Homosexuality was going on from way,way back in time; The funny part to all this is that it seems ok with in the church, since many of them are into the homosexuality; Right here at home in the US a catholic school is closing because they has paid out so much money for all the mess the priest has done to all the young boys; Things are very much out of hand, and getting worse. I can see where Bentley is going, and I respect both him, Islandgal246, and Kinghton,s views. It seems to be getting worse instead of better; So at this point in time we need so kind of DIVINE INTERVENTION towards change;


  15. @Charles Cadogan “Islandgal246, and Kinghton,s views. It seems to be getting worse instead of better;”

    Please enlighten me Sir Charles. You say that my views are getting worse instead of any better. Why? Is it because your views the correct ones? Or is it not that I cannot see this subject YOUR way? LOL this is so typical of people narrow minded people like you who believe that they are the only ones with the truth.


  16. @ Charles S Cadogan

    Are my views and Knightons views making you THINK? Are you afraid of THINKING differently? Are you AFRAID of seeing that you may be WRONG?


  17. To neurophysiologists who research cognitive functions, the emotionally driven appear to suffer from cognitive deficits that mimic certain types of brain injuries.

    Charles’ post was posted as a separate blog here.

    David


  18. @islandgal246: “Studies have shown that we are actually biased in our visual perception —- literally how we see the world—- because of our belief systems. This cognitive bias is not an occasional problem. It is a systematic source of errors.

    Could you please, “islandgal246”, cite these studies?

    Who were the authors? Who were on the supervisory committees?

    Who published them?


  19. @Bentley
    all of what you stated can be applied to the Muslim faith, so what is your point, and the Muslims don’t even acknowledge homosexuals.


  20. @Christopher
    Genesis Chp 1
    27 So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

    28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

    The word lesbian can refer to a woman’s identity, to desire, or to activity between women. (Taken from google) Which explains not just same attraction but taking that attraction to female/female sexual relations.

    God condones male and female sexual behaviour.

    Christopher where in the Bible does God condone female with female sexual behaviour?


  21. @FRAN et al…

    At the end of the day, a British High Court handed down a secular decision on a touchy subject which will have ramifications around the world.

    How will you et al deal with it?


  22. All religions are endogamous in their doctrines, they do not entertain or accept external influences, so my question is why the focus on Christianity and not the others? is there truly an agenda to suppress Christianity and isn’t it laughable to speak of equality when the whole concept of equality comes from the teachings of Christ? LOL ‘remember he taught us this ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. He was the first judge that pronounced justice on the earth. The concept of the law came from him.


  23. @David
    “to what extent are we prepared to accept homosexuality on the basis of freedom to engage in lifestyles of choice versus that of a genetic difference.”

    I said earlier ‘we have a choice’. Homosexuality, lesbianism is a choice. I have read that at sometimes due to dual organs individuals can born looking very female, however, the dominant male organs that were dormant at birth can develop. I do not in any way refute that, and, to that I have no comment. However, where an individual makes a choice to have same sex relations – it is his/her personal choice. It does not change the faith of Christians who also have a choice.


  24. @Different: “Christopher where in the Bible does God condone female with female sexual behaviour?

    That wasn’t the question asked. A question which I note you haven’t answered.

    Please answer the question.

    And, further, please answer this:

    Where in the Bible does God condone the use of electricity?

    Where in the Bible does God condone the use of low-frequency photons?

    For Jesus’ sake, where in the Bible does God condone the use of Gravity???


  25. @David
    In his book “Gay Christians, A Moral Dilemma” Peter Coleman posited Page 17 ‘The physical distinction between male and female results genetically from the chromosomal pattern established at conception.’ page 18 ‘Chromosomal abnormalities occur in a small number of conceptions where an extra or missing chromosome leads to untypical development.’ page 19 ‘When hormonal chemistry is not balanced in the normal way, variations in development of the internal and external sex organs takes place, and this leads to various kinds of inter-sexual characteristics. A person may grow up with apparently male or female external genitalia, but in fact have the opposite chormosomal pattern.’ He explained in this same chapter how ‘sex-change’ can be effected through medical intervention.


  26. @David. I applaud your position, your exposition and your caution and your reality.

    The question to my mind is simply, “What is best for the child?” The Court has to take into account the effect on the child should it have the genetics that render it homosexual. The duty of the State is towards the child, not the parents.

    I agree with the court. It cannot afford to take the chance on any child turning out to be homosexual and then subjected to mental and maybe even physical abuse by adoptive parents because of it.

    That the leaders of the Church of England should not see and applaud this point when almost 70% of its clergy are practicing homosexual is perverse. Worse, it displays and extremism on the same level as its counterparts in other religions.

    I dislike public displays of sexual preferences of any kind. However, the gay community has had an Everest to climb in terms of equal rights. This always brings out the extremists who, job done, are reluctant to return to anonymity. Consider that we are, almost all of us, descended from slaves and had it not been for extremists, we would be no further ahead. For women in our society it has been even more difficult to attain equality and only by dint of extremists is that cause being advanced. So, while I may regret the extremism, I see its necessity.

    Many years ago, I went to see the movie Ghandi. Magnificent movie. However, the one part that left me with a lasting impression was when a killer of Muslim’s was asked how he could atone for his sins. Ghandi told him to adopt a Muslim orphan, but to raise him as a Muslim. How sad that the man-appointed leaders of the Church of England and, indeed, of other religions, have not the wit nor the wisdom nor the charity to attain the heights of one who was divinely inspired.

    However, how heartening that the British courts have got the message. I suspect that the Almighty and his Son are applauding the the Courts, not their man-appointed representatives on earth.


  27. @ Islandgal246.
    NO, No, I am not commenting on the views of Knighton and yourself in any way form or fashion. I do agree with you. I was only saying that the situation seems to be getting worse; Every since I have seen your comments. I have respected them. So Please don’t get me wrong;


  28. @ Christopher
    I read in the Bible somewhere that Jesus said that if one returned from the dead they would not believe. Upon that note, with you, I rest my case.


  29. @ Islandgal246
    Wow you have jumped the gun for sure in regards to what I’ve said about things getting worse. Has nothing to do with what you or the brother Knighton said. I did agree with it, and added that things were getting worse in regards to the way people are living today;
    Allow me to enlighten you about myself. I will go to my grave for what I believe in. The only thing that’s promised is death. I have no fear of, or for anything; We are all saying what, and how we feel, and this is what makes the world revolve. Different opinions. The funny part of it is I agreed with what you said in the first place;


  30. @Different: “I read in the Bible somewhere that Jesus said that if one returned from the dead they would not believe.

    Wow. Such authority!!! I can certainly put that against a database query…

    (Not!!!)

    Weirdly, I’m almost missing Zoe….


  31. If I wasn’t before…..I am convinced now!!

    ReLIEgion IS the cause most of the problems in the world!!
    Every topic, every discussion, comes a full circle to this point…..doubt me?
    Read BU!!


    • @new

      The CCJ is the final court for matters pertaining to the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas.


    • You are correct guys, apologies on that one, a little distracted.

      The bigger point is that a British ruling will still have some impact given we are a commonwealth jurisdiction.


  32. @ Techie

    Love it ! LOLLLLLL I have long time come to this conclusion as well. Instead of many affecting the change that is needed they prefer to take the easy way out and ask someone they have never seen nor heard. Many are too lazy to take responsibility and leave everything to their GOD.

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  34. What does a high court ruling in Britain have to do with Bim? Don’t we have our own courts? Culture? Way of life? Are we going to jump on their bandwagon cause they have a superior point of view or something?
    That being said, the ruling makes no sense. How can you deny a couple a child because they are Christian? You could as well outlaw adoptions period cause everybody chooses to believe in something even if it is to be atheist. I’ll bet you don’t see them denying a Muslim couple an Arab baby because of their ‘backward’ beliefs. I lived in England, I know what they are like. The Establishment are waaay too terrified of that group to ever cross them. Christians are easy to pick on cause they don’t generally bomb the tube. You would think children don’t starve to death chained to bathtubs in Britain with the amount of attention they pay to their rights.
    Still, that country is no stranger to ridiculous judgments passed in the law courts. You should see the tiny sentences they give to people who rape children, then spend a fortune paying people to follow them around when they let them out early in case they re-offend.
    Why we treat that country like it is the standard for intelligent thinking is beyond me.


  35. @ islandgal…..

    Glad you see it also…there is hope yet..lol.

    @new…..

    You must be new for real…..new born, new comer…..new testament…lol.


  36. @ David
    Is it really? Bim is not signed up to the CCJ? We are still running to Britain to resolve court cases?
    Well, that says it all.


  37. @New
    Which judicial system does Barbados follow?
    You are really new to this forum. Welcome and please come with an open mind. This is where ideas and concepts are discussed and exchanged. This is a learning experience.


  38. THere are non Christians who have similar anti gay views , How would such a ruling affect them. AS far as I am concerned this ruling is a little suspicious as I would indeed affect others whether christian or nonchristian with similar point of view as the couple. Maybe indeed this ruling was meant to send a message to all who are anti gay! How appropriate. Timing is everything!


  39. David the ccj operates via two jurisdictions: an Original Jurisdiction and an Appellate Jurisdiction. The original deal with treaty of chaguaramas. the appellate deal with civil and criminal matter that would have been hear by the privy council. Barbados has signed on two both jurisdictions.


  40. @ David. What do you mean by our final court is out of England?
    I thought the Caribbean court of justice in Port of Spain was our final court of justice. Am I not correct? or am I missing something here.


  41. The ruling argues that because they don’t accept homosexual lifestyle as acceptable that they not be given the right to adopt. I don’t think that we will come to near to have a case like that for some time. The argument here which I think the judge should be challenge on is that do all parents on whole accept the homosexual lifestyle is acceptable if they don’t can you stop them from being parents? If the answer is no how can you stop people from adopting for that reason.


  42. @ Anthony

    Totally agree. Based on this judgment I would guess they’d need to root all the Christians out of schools and daycare to make sure the nations youth weren’t exposed to their views on homosexuality either.


  43. This ruling is not relevant to Barbados. We do not have equality legislation…no need to get your panties (or boxers) in a twist.


  44. It is very interesting to see all the God-haters beating their chests as if this is some great victory that was won. This is really a grim step down a very destructive path for Britian and I suspect many a country will soon follow.

    It will also be interesting to hear the God-haters when the wicked seed of the homosexual agenda begin to bear their fruit and the ramifications for wider society begin to take shape.


  45. Homosexuality has been and shall be with us long after all bloggers on the subject are gone A bit of advice to ALL homosexuals including (sometime ones.)”Beware of the ides of march!”
    I am convinced that the law is an ass!


  46. @Alpha

    Why are you calling people who have another viewpoint GOD haters? You need to read the post on “Think but be aware your biases”. Many religious people become offended when their faith is criticized, but it is ok for them to lambaste those who do not share their beliefs. Tell me how can that be fair? You sound like a third rate mind who is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.


  47. @not: “Yyou were asking about a text that refers to lesbianism as being spoken against in the bible. Please see Romans 1:25-27

    Interesting… Is this the only reference you can provide?

    Let me please counter with this:

    http://www.gaychristian101.com/Against-Nature.html

    Important quote:

    Gay Christians respond with logic and common sense.

    1. Scripture condemns same sex shrine prostitution (a pagan religious fertility practice), not lesbianism and not homosexuality.

    2. Celibacy is as against nature as homosexuality.

    3. Celibacy negates the sexual complementarity of males and females because celibates neither engage in sexual activity nor reproduce.

    4. Celibacy is contrary to the intent of the Creator as expressed in Genesis 2.

    5. Celibacy intentionally rebels against God’s plan for male-female sexual union and procreation.

    6. If everyone was celibate, the human race would die out.

    7. If the Complementarian viewpoint is valid, we would expect scripture to condemn celibacy yet scripture commends celibacy, I Corinthians 7:7-8.


  48. islandgirl,
    One can not love God but hate his commandments, that’s just illogical and absurd. That’s like saying you love your parents in one breath but disobey them at every opportunity the next.

    The anti-Christian movement is beginning to gather steam now. Behind all the smoke and mirrors, gay rights this, alternative religion that, what is really happening is a concerted well thought-out strategy to undermine Biblical world views and true christianity. That is the real agenda at play. It will only end one way and I put to you God-haters that Jesus will never be a loser.

    But I digress. What I find most saddening is Bajans that came up with some degree of biblical influence, maybe under a Godly mothe r or grandmother but then a lil degree here a cushy job there and all of a sudden the Bible, the Church, God is irrelevant. Something for ‘third rate’ thinkers and idiots.

    BTW island girl et al the Biblical, Christ-centred world view has NEVER been a majority world view and bu definition CAN NEVER BE so you need to re-examine your assessment about who truly subscribe to the majority world view. I believe the results may shock you if you care for the truth.


  49. “Many religious people become offended when their faith is criticized”

    Au contraire islandgirl many a mature believer will accept criticism from you (all) as a sign that s/he is trodding the right path.


  50. @ Alpha “One can not love God but hate his commandments, that’s just illogical and absurd.”

    You assume that people should feel the same way about GOD as you do, now that is most illogical and absurd! Many people followed the Christian Religion without ever questioning and understanding why. Because many of you spew the verses of the Bible, you feel that you have become an authority and that gives you and people like you credibility. Why would I want to follow doctrines written by men thousands of years ago of which many of these were borrowed or stolen from other cultures. You idolize a man called Jesus whom many have made into a GOD. Many Christian sects have cannot agree on the scriptures. YOU need to THINK for yourself without fear of learning the truth.


  51. @alpha: “It will only end one way and I put to you God-haters that Jesus will never be a loser.

    (Please forgive me, islandgal246, for speaking to something directed to you.)

    Just because some may disagree with you et al does not mean they et al hate you, or what you believe in.

    But… Some have gone past the blind belief in things claimed by others, and would rather be able to satisfy themselves that what they are told is true (or, at least, plausible). And to be allowed to consider other possibilities.

    I have found that those who are strong enough to think for themselves frown upon those who tell them they must accept what they are told without question…

    God gave us all brains, intelligence and sentience.

    Do you not think they intended us to use these gifts?


  52. alpha says….”What I find most saddening is Bajans that came up with some degree of biblical influence, maybe under a Godly mothe r or grandmother but then a lil degree here a cushy job there and all of a sudden the Bible, the Church, God is irrelevant. ”

    Then what would you say about brilliant minds like GP, Zoe, or Dictionary?
    Are Christians, according to your logic, supposed to be dumb……you sounding like the JWs now……lol.


  53. @ techie
    I do not understand your point. I think that u r misunderstanding me. Please reread my post. I have a few bits of paper on the walls as well.


  54. @ Islandgirl

    No I did not assume anything.

    You said,
    “Why would I want to follow doctrines written by men thousands of years ago of which many of these were borrowed or stolen from other cultures. ”
    I put it to you that 90% of your life is based on doctrines “written by men thousands of years ago of which many of these were borrowed or stolen from other cultures”. Check it carefully!

    “You idolize a man called Jesus whom many have made into a GOD.”
    Who do you idolise? If it is not Jesus it is SOMEONE else, either human or spirit!

    “Many Christian sects have cannot agree on the scriptures”
    What does this have to do with your own pursuit of truth??

    “YOU need to THINK for yourself without fear of learning the truth.”
    Sage advice, but rather ironic considering…

    Essentially Islandgirl there is nothing wrong with healthy doses of skepticism and doubt. You see, the issue of believing the veracity of the Bible and of teh claims of Jesus are usually not intellectual though many like CH would pretend that they are. The issue is moral because if I accept the claims of Jesus the onus is now on me to deconstruct my belief system and change my life style. That is usually the difficult step for many of us.

    There are essentially 2 kinds of doubters:
    1) Honest doubters, seeking truth
    2) Dishonest doubters, fleeing truth

    Which kind are you Islandgirl?


  55. @Alpha

    Has this Jesus Worship made Christians any better than non Christians? Who gives Christians the right to to feel that they are the only ones with the truth. I am on my own path of discovery in which common sense is employed. I don’t swallow doctrines blindly and I ask questions and reason with facts. I do not allow myself to believe stories about thins I can see that are not possible: i.e I cannot believe that an angel can impregnate a married woman. She was having sex with her husband and that resulted in her pregnancy. I cannot buy into things that do not make sense to me. I cannot make up excuses for the shortcomings of a book written by men in which fear is used to make people followers. My truth is not your truth. My awareness of a creator will never be the same as yours. There are many paths and levels of understanding when seeking spirituality. I try to have an open mind when seeking the truth. Please don’t pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.


  56. @ Alpha
    A non religious person can lead a very moral life. Morality does not belong to any sect or religion. I am sure you are aware that not all Christians lead moral lives. Saying you are a Christian and a believer in GOD does not tell me that you are a moral and nice person.


  57. This ruling does affect a broad spectrum of society . It is not only to confined to people of religious persuasion.In reality non christian many of them would condemn the Homosexuality lifestyle. In respect many people who in Britain who are care givers and have similar point of views as the couple may be hesitant to speak about them in public for fear of reprisal. What weshould be questioning is the rationale and true meaning behind the law and its affect on others as well.


  58. The UK is working through some issues on adoption. In the last couple years they have change their rules about who is eligible for adoption/NHS funded IVF treatment. In the past married couples were at the front of the queue or made up the queue exclusively. They’ve loosened those rule since civil partnerships came into being so now single people, (including 1 gay person in a relationship). Not sure if that’s also followed with IVF though. Last time I paid attention, church adoptions got an exemption, but I believe they’ve recently lost a court case trying to keep that restriction.
    This judgment sounds like more of the same from the courts. It remains to be seen what the churches,who carry out out many of the adoptions in the UK will do next.


  59. What is the general consensus of competent Historians, sociologist et al, who have carefully studied ancient civilizations, and as Brian Fitzpatrick, ask:

    “Does embracing homosexuality really* cause societies to fail?

    “MOST societies throughout history, even the wealthiest and mightest, have eventually collasped and died, WHY? Why don’t they just continue to evolve and flourish forever as their knowledge and technology grow? What allows some cultures to continually bloom, and others to wither?”

    What are the consistent facts and evidence, of vast research done by these historians et al, on ancient societies, in either their blooming or demise?

    Could the rise and prevelance of ‘homosexuality, and other amoral behaviour and practices, cause societies, as eerily reminiscient of Sodom and Gomorrah, the ancient cities whose destruction, caused by rampant immorality is described in the Old Trestament of the Bible, be a sound warning to all and sundry today?

    ‘Sex and Culture’

    As Ftizpatrick asserts:

    “Perhaps the definitive work on the rise and fall of civilizations was publish in 1934 by Oxford anthropologist J.D Unwin in ‘Sex and Culture,’ Unwin studied 86 human civilizations ranging from tiny South Sea island principalities to mighty Rome. He found that a society’s destiny is linked inseparably to the limits it imposes on sexual expression and that those sexual constraints correlate directly to its theological sophistication and religious commitment.”

    “In particular, cultures that adopt what Unwin dubbed “absolute monogamy” proved to be the most vigorous, economically productive, artistically creative, scientifically innovative and geographically expansive societies on earth.”

    I wonder why this in-depth research, bearing in mind always, that these Volumes were not written by Christians, but by secular intellectuals, scholars, simply analyzing the historic facts and evidence, of WHY and WHAT caused these ancient civilizations to either bloom or fail!

    ‘Unwin’s contemporary, British historian Arnold Toynbee, was much more explicit about the centrality of religion in history. Toynbee’s masterpiece, his 12-volume “Study of History,” charted the rise and fall of 26 civilizations. In Toynbee’s view, “The course of human history consist of a series of encounters… in which each man or woman or child…is challenged by God to make the FREE CHOICE between doing God’s will and refusing to do it.”

    We now have rampant homosexual/lesbianism not only been openly practiced, but also its virtual celebration; in the U.S, England, Europe and elsewhere, gaining support from Judges, whose intent and ultimate agenda, is to destroy the traditional core*values of historic Judeo/Christian ‘marriage’ family UNIT of one man/woman, which WAS the foundational strength of all ancient societies that flourished and bloomed!

    In “This Present Age,” sociologist Robert Nisbet writes, “What sociologist are prone to call social disintegration* is really nothing more than the spectacle of a rising number of individuals playing FAST and LOOSE with other individuals in relationships of trust and responsibility. Moral standards begin to ERODE when a society’s members chafe at the disciplne imposed by absolute monogamy and begin to gratify their personal impulses without regard for the consequences inflicted by others.”

    “In other words, in an amoral, hedonistic society, you can’t trust the people you need to trust, not even your spouse. Moreover, if people can make and break relationships at will, with no legal repercussions or social stigma, they are much more likely to abandon their marriages – at their children;s expense.”

    Thus, the founder of Harvard’s sociology department, Pitirim Sorokin, warned that if individualistic selfhness and self-seeking are not checked, a society will lapse into a state of “SEXUAL ANARCHY.”

    Interestingly, the above views, clearly expressed by these secular academics, NOT Christians, and what caused ancient societies to crumble, bar none, who went the path of rampant, debased sexual immorality, as England et al are now doing, will ultimately fail and fall, as whenever mankind goes against our God-ordained monogamous, family unit, of husband/wife, one man, one woman, it is only a matter of time before the sexually obsessed, bring and foster, as Sorokin puts it, “…a society will lapse into a state of “sexual anarchy.”

    Truth by definition IS absolute, two competing truth claims CANNOT be both right in the same respect* or same time*, this is emphatically true, by the Law of Non-Contradictions, which has application to ALL men, every where, ALL of the time.

    The majority, of free-thinking, historically, have always chosen the devious path, and ALWAYS end up in utter runination; it is the MINORITY that choose the righteous path of Almighty God’s ordained ways, and prosper and flourish, these are the historic facts and credible, warranted evidence, deny it if you wish, but you can’t refute it!


  60. @ Zoe….

    ….”WHY? Why don’t they just continue to evolve and flourish forever as their knowledge and technology grow? What allows some cultures to continually bloom, and others to wither?”

    Can you enlighten us as to which cultures (that continually bloom) you speak of here?
    Just one (1) example would be enough.


  61. Matt 24 watch, 119: The UK’s trend to deligitimise and penalise Christians under false colours of Anti Discrimination Law.

    “Hardly has this blog taken a moment to address the Bull Guest House case when a fresh ruling by High Court underscores the key problem that Mike Judge complained of previously.”

    “Discrimination law meant to act as a shield to protect people
    from unfair treatment, not to be used as a sword to attack
    those whose beliefs you disagree with.”

    “A concern that is multiplied for British Overseas Territory jurisdfictions like Montserrat where (under the prompting Foriegn and Commonwealth Office), very similar anti-discrimination provisions have been written into our constitution.”

    “So, we need to put the current cases under the microscope, noticing with Mike Judge how:”

    “[t]he same laws used against the Bulls [and which have threatened their livelihood and the sanctity of their home] been used to shut down faith-based adoption agencies that want children to have the benefit of a mum and a dad are committed to each other in marriage. Children were sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.”

    “Indeed, we must now wonder with Mike Judge as well, if “PERSONALLY LIBERTY MAY BE NEXT.”

    “In this fresh case, as Tim Ross, the Daily Telegraph’s Religious Affairs Editor, pointed out, two UK High Court judges have ruled that: There is no place in British law for Christian beliefs, despite this country’s long history of religious observance and the traditions of the established Church…”

    “Lord Justice Munby and Mr. Justice Beatson made remarks when ruling on the case of a Christian couple who were told they cpuld not be foster carers because of their views that homosexuality is wrong. The judges underlined that, in the case of fostering arrangements at least, the right of homosexuals to equality should take precedence’ over the rights of Christians to manifest their beliefs and moral values. In a ruling with potentially wide-ranging implications, the judges said Britain was a ‘largely secular multi-cultural country in which the laws of the realm “do not include Christianity.”

    “Tellingly, Ross goes on: “Campaigners for homosexuality welcomed the judgement for placing ’21st century decency above 19th century prejudice.”

    “It is beginning to seem that ‘decency’ is being redefined, and that victims of real prejudice and hostility are being blamed for their victimisation by truimphalistic homosexualist activists.”

    “For, what is really going on is that homosexualist agitators, flying the legal flag of anti-discrimination law – and often with the aid of UK Government agencies and now judges – are being empowered by increasingly radically secularised British to discriminate upon Christians, and proceed to blame the victims as though they were in the wrong, labelling them with loaded tags such as “prejudice” as though they were card-carrying Klu Klux clansmen.”

    “Let us be clear: it is but a minor step of carrying forward a precedent, to move on to the next stage, a stripping foster or adoptive, even natural parents of their children for the thought crime of taking their children to a church where the Pastors, like Pastor Ake Green in Sweden ( who was actually sentenced to goal for preaching that homosexuality is sin to be repented of– simply read from Romans 1, where it teaches:

    God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness.

    “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who SUPPRESS the TRUTH in unrighteousness because what may be KNOWN of God is MANIFEST in them, for God HAS shown it to them.” (vv. 18,19)

    “for since the CREATION of the world His invisible attributes are clearly SEEN, being understood by the things that are MADE, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without EXCUSE.” (v.20).

    “Because, although they KNEW God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became FUTILE in their thoughts, and their FOOLISH hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became FOOLS.” (vv. 21, 22)

    “And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corriptible man – and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.”

    “Therefore, God also gave them UP to UNCLEANNESS, in the LUST of their hearts, to DISHONOR their BODOES among themselves, who exchanged the TRUTH of God for a LIE, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed FOREVER. Amen.”

    “For this reason God gave them up to VILE PASSIONS. For even their women exchanged the natural use (heterosexual) for what is AGAINST nature (lesbianism). Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use (heterosexual) of the women, BURNED in their LUST for one anothe, men with men (homosexuals) committing what is SHAMEFUL, and receiving in themselves the penality of their error which was due. And even as they did NOT like to retain God in their knowledge. God gave them over to a DEBASED mind, to do those things which are not fitting, being filled with all unrighteousness, SEXUAL IMMORALITY, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evilmindednes; they are whisperers, backbitters, HATERS of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not ONLY do the same but also APPROVE of those who practice them.” (vv. 23- 32 Emphasis added throughout).

    Now, when we remember the research I quoted earlier up from historians, sociologist, anthropologist, et al whose in-depth studies of ancient societies and civilizations, reveal that whenever mankind goes the route of abased homosexuality, and other deviant such behavior, as God’s Word declares, as quoted from Romans, it always bring God’s Wrath, which IS historically affirmed and confirmed by the research of these secular academics, that runiation will inevitably follow such wanton lifestyles.


  62. Reasons for decline of societies.

    Why exactly does absolute monogamy, the God-ordained moral code, bring vitality to a society? Because, absolute monogamy, essentially fosters sound, proper, cultural growth by solving what anthropologist Margret Mead called the “central problem of every society” – that is, to “define appropriate roles fo the man,” Monogamous civilizations require men to choose either lifelong celibacy or the responsibilities of a husband: fidelity, breadwinning and fatherhood. Most men choose to mary, to their good fortune, because married men tend to be healthier, happier and more productive than bachelors.

    Those committed husbands create stable marriages, whivh offer the greatest opportunity for raising healthy, productive children who can keep a society strong and growing.

    Likewise, the great economist Joseph Scgumpeter attributes the success of capitalism not to the entrepeneur’s lust for money or status, but no his love of family. To Schumpeter, the central pillar of any healthy civilization is the self-sacrificing married man who doesn’t spend his income on his pleasures, but prefers “to work and save primarily for wife and children.”

    And in “Family and Civilization, ” Harvard historian Carle Zimmerman concludes that “the creative periods in civilization have been based upon” the strongest form of family, which he terms the “domestic” type.

    Children – the real victims

    The immediate victims of sexual anarchy, of course, are always children. In her well known article, “Dan Quayle Was Right,” Barbara Dafoe Whitehead writes, “After decades of so-called family diversity, the evidence from social-science research is coming in: The dissolution of two-parent families, though it may benefit the adults involved, is harmeful to many children, and dramatically undermines our society.”

    What exactly happens when we take fathers out of the family picture? The National Fatherhood Initiative tells the sorry tale: “Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely to be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers who live with their married biological (or adoptive) parents.”

    How long does it take for cultural disintegration to set in?

    Unwin observed that civilizations cease to grow within three generations after retreating from absolute monogamy. If they fail to return to monogamy, they will continue to slide into individualism and hedonism, and civil disorder will ensue.

    Likewise, in his “Social and Cultural Dynamics,” Sorokin, who studied 1, 623 “internal disturbances in Greco-Roman and European history,” found that sexual permissiveness almost always precedes or accompanies “an explosion of sociopolitical.”

    Such selfish and undisciplined societies meet ugly fates. Unwin found that EVERY society, without exception, that rejects absolute monogamy either becomes a stagnant culture backwater or collapes altogether.

    To those quiet observers, who sincerely desire to know the Biblical imperative of our Creator, that monogamy was designed by Him, for our very best good, of ordering any society, as it IS absolutely foundational to stability of any civilization, and, the research of competent historians et al, ALL agree, that whenever we diviate from these God-ordained societal norms, it fractures any civilization, and WILL BRING, chaos and failure!


  63. All I asked, was one (1) direct question and got…..*sigh*.

    @ac….

    Thanks ;)… The celebrations have begun…. cold but this is my month.


  64. @Chris and @Technician. You two are being very naughty. You must be able to see that poor old Zoe has decided to come off his/her meds and sacked his/her psychologist. And wunna teasin de poor soul. I am very amused. I mean, anyone who can write such un-Christian drivel and try to dress it up as Christian and biblical, certainly needs a good dose of brain transplant.

    For instance, Zoe cites a case where B&B owners were successfully sued for refusing (after accepting) a booking from a gay couple on the basis that they did not accept homosexuality in their home. Well, it ceased to be “their home” when they advertised it as a B&B, and it became a business. Thir action was akin, under the anti-discrimination laws of Enland (and the EEC) to saying that they did not accept Black people (or Indian or Chinese) as consumers of a product they themselves had advertised. The MOMENT they set up business, they had NO RIGHT in law to seek to exclude ANYONE or ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE who, in good faith, sought to purchase those goods or services, irrespective of colour, creed or sexual preference. THEY BROKE THE LAW OF THE LAND! Simple.

    In the latest case, two people who are vehemently anti-homosexual have been refused the right to adopt children that might grow up to be homosexual. That makes excellent sense to me. Why would you subject a child to the possibility of being emotionally and maybe even physically abused by two adults, because the child’s genetic make-up is such that it is homosexual? The State’s obligation to the CHILD, not wannabe parents, is paramount. The State (judges) have acted correctly.

    As for the notion that homosexuality brings down nations, what amazing crap that is. Nations rise and nations fall. It was ever thus and if you examine why, Zoe-who-needs-meds, you will find that it is a question of ECONOMICS!! Only a blasted fool would try to ascribe it to a small minority of people whose GOD-GIVEN GENETICS are such that they are homosexual.

    I know why Zoe needs the meds so much. Guilt from transgressing the Commandment, “Thou shalt not lie.”

    Now the bat cave is truly going to open.


  65. Where then does homosexuality fit into cultural decline? It is just rightwing “old wives’ tale” than an increase in homosexuality signals the decline of a civilization – or is it actually true?

    Will Durant, author of the 11 volume series “The Story of Civilization,” observed that homosexual behavior becomes more prevalent as societies go into decline. Unwin noted that “the historical evidence [suggest] that homosexuality is a habit that appears in a society…that has been absolutely monogamous, and is relaxing.” And Zimmerman wrote that “homosexuality is always present in society, but in trustee and domestic family types it is strongly repressed. In late atomistic family systems it becomes much the fashion…”

    Radical and subversive agenda.

    On its website, the Human Rights Campaign claims to be “the largest civil rights organization working to achieve equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.” Their official narrative is that homosexuals are an oppressed, victimized minority group and that activists are merely working to secure civil rights and social “equality’ – hence the adoption of the “=” sign as their symbol. But civil equality is only part of the agenda. Homosexual activists are also enacting a radical socio-cultural agenda that would shovk Unwin and other classic historians and social researchers.

    As homosexual activists have grown more sophisticated in recent years, they have stopped placing some of their most objectionable demands before the public. For example, the North American Man-Boy Love Association is no longer welcomed at most “gay pride” parades, as it once was; of course that does not necessarily mean “gay rights” activists have rejected pedophila, or even NAMBLA. At the 2008 National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association convention, as man was proudly sporting a NAMBLA tee-shirt at the mixer of the first evening of the event.

    Since their long-term activist agenda was more plainly expressed in platforms published in years past, here are selected planks of homosexual rights platforms published in 1972, 1987 and 1993, focusing on positions relating to the three pillars of healthy and growing civilization identified by Unwin: 1) strong marriages and families 2) strong sexual restrictions, and 3) religion.

    Marriage and family

    * We demand legislation to prevent discrimination against Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgendered people in the areas of family diversity, custody, adoption and foster care and that the definition of family includes the full diversity of all family structures.

    * Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit.

    *Unrestricted, safe and affordable alternative insemination.

    The obvious, radical Homosexual activist agenda, IS to redefine the fdamily to EMBRACE virtually ANY combination of people imaginable from THREESOMES and FOURSOMES to families with NO identifiable FATHER and families without a mother. In effect, the word “family” would become meaningless. Are these the types of aggregations likely to produce CHILDREN who can keep society growing, healthy, sound, and productive?

    Also, Gay activists want to coerce educators into promoting a gay-friendly curriculum in the schools, a goal they have already achieved in many parts of the country. They would also force private institutions like the Boy scouts to go along with the program so children would not be taught that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.

    This wicked, immoral, amoral, demonically instigated Homosexualists agenda, wants to completely cast OUT Almighty God’s moral code altogether, by removing ALL restrictions on sexual expression, except forcible rape. Incest, polygamy, fornication, adultery and sexual practices too repugnant to describe here, would become normalized socially and even protected by law.

    Children would lose the protection of laws that shelter them from sexually predatory adults. As long as a child “consents” to an adult’s sexual advances, the predators would have nothing to fear.

    This debased “moral schizophrenia” and acknowledging what every body already knows to be true about homosexuality; that it IS NOT an immutable characteristic like race or sex, but a behavior symptomatic of an underlying emotional disorder, a pathology, not an identity, people afflicted with homosexuality need to be treated with compassion, but they need to be treated, NOT enabled.

    The alternative is to further embrace the homosexual agenda, and DIG our cultural and spiritual HOLE ever deeper, where it will become impossible to climb out, and we will join Greece, Rome, Babylon and the rest of history’s once-great, but ultimately failed societies, as mere chapters in some new vigorous civilization’s history books!


  66. I know Zoe you didn’t think that up and wrote all these post yourself. You are such a copy cat, you do not have one original thought in your head! Go take your medication please.


  67. As we have seen here on BU, and elsewhere,

    “Woe to those who call EVIL good, and GOOD evil; Who put DARKNESS for LIGHT, and light for DARKNESS; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.” (Isaiah 5:20 Emphasis added)

    For, “speaking LIES in hypocrisy, having their own conscience SEARED with a hot iron.” ( 1 Tim. 4:2 Emphasis added)


  68. I don’t know Islandgal246… the overuse of capitals by Zoe does suggest a deranged mind.. so it might be original composition, but not particularly original thoughts.


  69. Halsall, stupidly ask:

    “Such as, for example, why do you trust people who published years ago over those who have published recently..”

    What an illogical, contrary to or devoid of logic, fallacious, sophistic, ignorant question to ask; like if recently published, validates falsity, lies and deceit, and those published years ago, because of ‘time’ invalidates soundness, veracity, and truth!

    Come now Halsall, surely you can to better than that!


  70. If you can only site old sources.. chances are that the position has been discredited within the field of research.


  71. @Amused: “@Chris and @Technician. You two are being very naughty. […] And wunna teasin de poor soul. I am very amused.

    I find Zoe to be a bit like a child’s toy — you just wind him up, and watch him zoe…

    But, there’s method to our madness — we’re demonstrating just how dangerous blind faith (in anything) can be. I don’t even think Zoe realises he’s being used for this purpose….

    @Amused: “I mean, anyone who can write such un-Christian drivel and try to dress it up as Christian and biblical, certainly needs a good dose of brain transplant.

    Or, perhaps, some education in the skill and application of critical thinking…

    As a good friend of mine told me once (she’s a devout Catholic, and a PhD researcher in the domain of medical studies): “Look, the Bible should not be taken literally. Serious believers understand it’s more of a Health and Safety Manual. Eat dirty animals, and you might get sick. Covet your neighbour’s wife, and you might get beaten up…

    There is nothing wrong with faith. Even Scientists have to have faith in what they believe is true; but they’re always willing to accept that they might be wrong.

    Blind faith — when you believe something so strongly that you believe that everyone else must be wrong no matter the evidence presented — that’s when faith becomes dangerous….


  72. For weeks now Zoe has been telling us about Israel and its bright people.
    How many Noble Prize winners, Physicists etc.
    How they are so brilliant that they turned the dessert into such a fertile and prosperous place.
    Zoe’s Israel is a bastion of civility and democracy, that he will defend to the death.
    Yet still……..

    http://www.thegully.com/essays/gaymundo/020220_gay_israel_history.html

    What I am here wondering is….what fate awaits Gods chosen for their similar transgressions.

    Do you Zoe, still want to continue with this notion that homosexuality brings down Nations….’cause by your own admission, Israel is flourishing.


  73. @Chris. Excellent exposition. Me VERY amused by the method. Unfortunately, I believe poor old Zoe is too far gone for it to do other than sail way over his/her head. Most people seem to think that Zoe is a man and I must say that the posts read that way, but who knows – might be a wicker in denial. But if Zoe IS a man, there have to be a few very pertinent questions raised about him using a woman’s name and the word “transexual” springs instantly to mind.

    I am enjoying this!


  74. Ignorant, unable to think critically, ‘majority’ of the world thinkers* can’t make one IOTA of sense, in any mouthing-off, baseless, utterly unhistoric hogwash, redherring strawmanized garbage.

    I challenge any of you vacumized brains, to submit researched evidence* objectively refuting the in-depth studies thus posted so far? Counter it, not with childlike folly laced in ad hominem dirt, as a typical children play with, but with CRITICAL, coherent facts!

    Failing to do that, continue on with your garbbled ignorance, folks are watching your display!


  75. Wtf is critical thinking Zoe?!?

    You say what you want….I ask a question…you can’t answer but you insult!!
    You are on record on BU as saying that Israel is a champion of democracy in the ME.
    You are on record on BU as saying voodoo was the main reason for the downfall of Haiti.
    You are on record on BU as saying that New Orleans paid the price for their “ways” with Katrina.
    You are on record on BU as saying the USA’s downfall will be because of their acceptance of homosexuality.
    Yet….it is a known FACT that Israel, your favourite people, God’s chosen people also have gays in abundance.
    My question, that you continue to dodge, is simple…by your logic, why is Israel so successful and flourishing as a nation while others are failing?
    They are doing the same as the US and the others you accuse. Do they get a pass?
    Basic thinking shows me your logic is flawed….critical thinking shows your biases.
    Common sense tells me you are a clown!!


  76. @islandgal246 | March 4, 2011 at 2:53 PM | . I have nothing to do with Zoe frothing at the mouth. He/she does it naturally. I believe that in medical circles they call it rabies.


  77. Hey all
    I found this on Wiki. . . . . . . .
    ********************************************************************
    Zoe, or Zoê (from ancient Greek ζωή, meaning life)
    ********************
    We all know how much our Zoe likes to quote from Geek texts so maybe he has adopted this alias with some psychological twist.


  78. Getting away from Zoe and back to the topic. Does the UK allow gay couples to adopt? If so is there not the possibility that their lifestyle can do damage to theiradopted child if the child is heterosexual?

    I would have thought that the court would have to prove that the sexual orientation of a child can be genetically proven. Why do they think that a child would/could grow up to be gay?

    If they have isolated a gene that defines a child as likely to be gay I guess they’ll be able to tell expectant parents that the child will be a boy and he’s likely to be gay! That should give some parents food for thought. Would they want to know, would they care?

    If they have isolated a “gay” gene, then perhaps they should test all children that are up for adoption to check their preference and allocate the gay youths to the gay couples and heterosexuals to their own kind. Perhaps gay couples would not care if their adopted child is heterosexual, or do most parents want their children to be like them.?

    Peace.

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