Banner promoting anonymous crime reporting with a phone and contact number 1 800 TIPS (8477), featuring the Crime Stoppers logo and a QR code for submitting tips.

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

Submitted by Terence Blackett

In the book of Isaiah 60: 6, 7 the prophet says:

“The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah: all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense: and they shall forth the praises of the Lord.. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance upon mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.”

To first of all understand these two verses, we must first be able to explain and understand what or who is Midian, Ephah, Sheba, Kedar and Nebaioth based on Biblical history.

In Genesis 25, we discover something very unique in the Word of God. Many well-meaning theologians, pastors and teachers ignore the Scriptures or simply are blind sided by prejudice as to what God is trying to say and show.

Most Christians today understand and are taught that Abraham had 2 lines of posterity. In actual fact, Abraham had 3 lines.

Let us start with Midian. As you read Gen. 25:1-2, the Bible says:

“Now Abraham married again, Keturah was his new wife and she bore him several children: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. And Jokshan had two sons Sheba and Dedan… The sons of Midian were Ephah and Epher…all these were the children of Keturah…”


It is important to note that Abraham’s [3] lines of descendants are pivotal to the plan of salvation, although heretical teachings to the contrary would have us believe that because Abraham bequeathed all that he had to Isaac the child of promise that it meant that Abraham’s seed (which according to Almighty God) would be like the sands upon the sea shore – we must conclude that the Abrahamic promised blessings also included all of his posterity.

What was distinctive about Isaac’s line or future genealogy would be that God choose this line to bring Messiah Yeshua into the world. However we must understand that this line would be interspersed and intermarried over the next 2000 years right up to the coming of Mary who was to be the one who would bear the Holy Child Jesus.

Abraham’s first wife Hagar bore him Ishmael; Sarah bore Isaac and Keturah bore him Midian. These lines are crucial to our understanding of Bible prophecy and how God is working out the plan of salvation through Abraham’s seed –  heirs of a promise made by God to all those who believe – whether Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, bond or free…

So we have established that Abraham’s posterity based on Isaiah rendition of the sacred history shows that his [3] sons and grandsons from their respective mothers – we now come to Ishmael’s first born – Nebaioth and Kedar his brother.

We have been taught for most of our Christian lives of the line of Sarah from which Isaac came and the resulting historical record of the Jewish people. The ignorance of allowing the other [2] lines of Abraham to exist in virtual obscurity without paying the necessary attention to the part that they play in the prophetic scheme of things is the reason why God is now allowing the eyes of those who are seeking revelation, light and present truth from the Word of God to bring this knowledge to the forefront of the minds of men.

Jesus Christ cannot return to earth until there is unity amongst the children of Abraham based on the covenant God made with him. The fulfilment of that covenant extend to every man, woman and child of Abraham who will come into the promise by faith in Jesus Christ regardless of religious persuasion, race or creed.

In Isaiah 60: 7, the 2nd son of Ishmael – Kedar came first and then Nebaioth the firstborn came second according to word from the prophet. Why is this?

In a similar twist of fate, we see Isaac beget two sons, Esau and Jacob. Esau was the firstborn – but sells his birthright to his brother Jacob. So Jacob becomes first and Esau becomes second. Have you noticed the parallels? Is God doing something interesting here? Whether you or I want to believe it, He sure is doing something or is allowing something to teach us a poignant lesson.

Jesus reminds us that the “first shall be last – and the last shall be first”. What does this means? And how can we apply this within the context of our understanding of religious matters today in our world?

It is important to note that the [3] lines of Abraham actually became [2]. Sarah’s line through Isaac became the [12] tribes of Israel and the children of Hagar & Keturah became the people of the EAST as they dwelt together… This is a very important distinction!

Whenever God refers to the people of the EAST, He is earmarking the sons and daughters of Abraham – not a separate and distinct group (though in essence, they were) but as a nation of people who had not been relegated to the side lines or had been forgotten.

It is important to open up from the Word of God and show decisively and distinctly who the ARAB people are – the sons of Ishmael, Midian and the others.

This is probably going to be the most controversial exegetical exposition of divine Biblical revelation ever seen from the Word of God and there are some who will be offended by this Scriptural discourse as it belies their inherent prejudices concerning the Bible.

We know from the record that Israel was founded on the basis of its [12] tribes. Is there anywhere else in Scripture where God speaks of tribes of peoples?

In Gen: 25 verses 13 through 16, we see clearly from the record that there are also [12] princes (tribes) based on the peoples of the EAST. Is this some freak of nature or some fluke of history that Isaac has [2] sons and the first becomes last and the last becomes first? Ishmael has [2] sons – Nebaioth and Kedar; the first become last and the last becomes first. Jacob has [12] sons who become the [12] tribes of Israel and Ishmael’s [12] sons become the princes from which the [12] tribes of the EAST arise.

Is this coincidence or is God doing something? YOU DECIDE!

Many within the Christian world do not accept that God alone is the only purveyor of absolute truth. He alone has the right to speak to whomever he wants and in whatever way He so chooses.

False teachings have made us callous in our understand and have shut us into a vacuum of exclusivity where we believe that God can only speak to a specific kind of person while dismissing the others because of whatever reasons. We forget that Christ came to save all. So God will speak to the Chinese, the Indian, the Muslim, the Buddhist – whoever He wants to reach, He will extend a hand to lead and guide men into the truth.

In the story of Joseph, he was sold into Egypt by his brothers. His brothers wanted initially to kill him but they decided to sell him to the Ishmaelites. The Bible says that a band of Midianite traders came by and so they pulled him out the pit and sold him. Is the Bible creating some confusion here in this context?

From this historical frame, we can see clearly where both the children of Hagar and the children of Keturah were living together – as the traders in spices, silks and other forms of merchandize, they are the ones who took Joseph from his brothers in lieu of the fact that down in Egypt, they could fetch a handsome price for him because of his physical stature. Joseph was not ill-treated by his distant cousins but was so well-fed and watered that on arrival in Egypt, Potiphar took him into his house because of his physical beauty and stature.

In a similar story, Moses’ brethren were fighting amongst themselves and he intervened and was asked if he wanted to kill them the same way he had killed the Egyptian earlier.

There is a line that seems to run through Scripture where brother wants to kill brother. This started in Eden. Clearly Moses’ brothers hated him and wanted him killed. The Pharaoh loved Moses as his own son because he was the son of his daughter. But when the news reached the Pharaoh of what had happened Moses ran off into Midian because his brethren brought bad news (false witness/gossip) into the royal court.

So for the next 40 years Moses lived in the land of Midian. Jethro – the priest of Midian became Moses’ father in law.

Many religious writers and scholars wrote books on Jethro claiming that he was an idol worshipper. But the Bible does not say that, neither does it infer it. Actually, Moses learns about the “TRUE” God from his father-in-law Jethro. For while, the children of Israel had lost their spiritual identity after 400 years in Egypt and where no priesthood existed, Jethro was a priest on to God, worshipping Him according to what had be laid down in ages past by the Spirit that had spoken through Abraham and his posterity.

When the Israelites were without the knowledge of the One True God, the children of Midian (the people of the EAST) were keeping the Sabbaths, carrying out the functions of the priesthood and worshipping the One True God.

When the Bible speaks of Ishmael being a wild donkey, it is speaking of the freedoms which the peoples of the EAST enjoyed unlike the children of Israel who were in captivity for 400 years.

There is an interesting paradox in the Word of God where Jethro – the priest of Midian relates to Moses a story of a man called Job. Nowhere in the Bible is anyone person so clearly detailed as to their possessions in the way that Job was. It was almost an accounting ledger of his assets down to the last minutiae.

Job chapter 1 verse 1- 3 says that this man was perfect and upright before God and stayed away from evil. The Bible says that this man was the greatest of all the men of the EAST. Was Job an Israelite? Clearly the answer is a resounding – NO!

He was a descendant from the line of either Ishmael or of the sons of Keturah. The story of Job was a popular story amongst those who lived in the EAST. The wealth of Job plus his righteous acts was common knowledge amongst the [12] tribes of the EAST.

So God used Jethro in the 40 years Moses lived with him to bring him into a knowledge of who God was and it became preparation for his Burning Bush experience; the deliverance and salvation of the Israelite tribes and the experiences for another [40] years wandering around the wilderness in search of the land that God would ultimately bring them into.

This line we have been discussing regarding how the Israelite people always wanted to kill or killed their own brothers. From Joseph who became the saviour of the nation in a time of unbelievable famine, to Moses their deliverer who was kept, taught and sheltered by his brethren in the EAST, to all the prophets who were killed from Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah to John the Baptist.

Then came Jesus – The Son of Man, the son of Mary and they took him too and murdered Him on a cross because He claimed to be the Son of God.

When we look at the genesis of the Christian church in the Acts of the Apostles, we see on the day of Pentecost that the ARABS* were the ones who received the Word of God spoken by Peter and the Apostles. They heard about Jesus in their own languages (the Libyans, Ethiopians, Africans, the Persians were all there) and their heart were pricked as they accepted Him as Lord and Saviour. This was to be the beginning of the knowledge of Jesus Christ to the people of EAST because the Scriptures shows that even the Ethiopian eunuch who was Queen Candice’s treasurer took the Gospel of Jesus Christ back to his homeland anointed by the fires of the Holy Spirit. Can you imagine the unwritten history of these men and their exploits for God in their own nations?

When the Jews had rejected the message of Jesus – the Arab people and those from the East accepted with open arms the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In Matt: 2:1, the Bible says:

“Now Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the king, and behold there came wise men from the EAST to Jerusalem. Saying, Where is He that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the EAST and have come to worship Him.”

How ironic that wise men who were worshippers of the One True God and who had studied the sacred text and knew of the prophetic times were able to discern from their deep study of the stars that Jesus Christ had been born while the Jews were oblivious to the knowledge of His presence far less the time of His visitation.

Just as the children of the EAST were worshipping the One True God in the days of Israel’s captivity and they were in darkness to who Jehovah God really was – so it was at the birth of Christ that the men of EAST were the first to announce the Saviour’s coming and be the ones to come and offer worship, adoration and precious gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.

So again, just as in Acts of the Apostles, where 3000 for whom were Arabs, Africans and others from the Eastern lands heard the Word gladly and received Jesus – so it is again with the Wise Men who travelled a great distance just to worship the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Jesus The Christ.

So 500 years before the coming of Jesus Christ, the prophet Isaiah in chapter 60 verse 6 prophesied that wise men will come on camels (not on donkeys, not in chariots); men from the lands of Midian (Jethro’s countrymen), Ephah and Sheba (The Eastern Lands) would come bearing gold and incense.

Many refuse to accept the Bible story. Many would rather accept the Christian story. We refuse to accept that the Christian story has been unadulterated by Greek mythology and Roman paganism. Christianity has been plagued by one-sided religious dogma which pits brother against brother. The Bible story is two-sided because it includes both sides of the coin.

Before Jesus Christ can return, the prophet says that “the flocks of Kedar must be gathered together to the Lord…the rams of Nebaioth (the sons of Ishmael – the Muslim nations) must minister to the Lord Jesus…they must come fully assured of salvation offering an offering of righteousness to the Lord…only then will the glory of the House of God be at its fullest..”

So the wealth – both physical and spiritually of the Muslim nations will be brought into the endtime church of Jesus Christ as a sign as did the Wise Men in His first Advent. Their ardour and ferverence in prayer will be magnified ten fold as they come into the knowledge of Christ and are baptized with the Latter Rain as the 3000 who were baptized with the Former Rain at Pentecost.

May we pray for the deliverance of all of the sons of Abraham…


Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

281 responses to “What Does The Bible Really Say About The Sons Of Abraham – And What Will It Take For This Dysfunctional Family To Become As One?”

  1. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    So far we have an idea of what the Abrahamic Covenant is and that God has been faithful in keeping the covenant as he promised. Now we must show how the Abrahamic Covenant relates to the Christian. Now we must show what the Scripture says about this relationship.

    The Abrahamic Covenant constantly refers to “the land” and Abraham’s “descendants.” The term
    for “descendants” may also be translated “seed.” Who,
    are the descendants of Abraham?

    All of the Semitic peoples are certainly included in this term, including the Arabs. However, the covenant refers to a specific group; for God is very selective.

    Isaac had two sons: Esau and Jacob, Jacob was the bearer of the promise. Jacob emerged into twelve tribes. However, only Judah of those tribes was the specific bearer of the covenant promise. The promise came through Judah, and His name shall be Shiloh, which means the “worthy one.”

    So within Israel there comes to be “a remnant.” Although there is, of course, the collective Israel, those who descended from Abraham; there are also those who are “like Abraham.” This group consists of those who have “faith” in God and the promise.

    The remnant are those who are the true Israel, those who have faith— a faith, and a heart that comes from God; and true Israel also has the blood of Abraham in their veins. Some believe that true Christians are that
    portion of the remnant which qualify to be ” true Israel “, because we have the same type or quality of faith as did Abraham. But what does the Bible say to
    support this belief?

    Matthew 3:9 reads, “And do not think you can say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children
    for Abraham.” In this incident, John the Baptist told the collective Israel that they were not true Israel. In other words, John the Baptist said prove that you are the children of Abraham — do the works of Abraham, i.e., have faith.

    Next in John 8:33ff. we read that the Jews in response to a statement by Jesus about liberty , “They answered him, We are Abrahams descendants and have never
    been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free? Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin… If you were Abraham’s children, said Jesus, then you would do the things Abraham did… ( but) You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your fathers desire.”

    Jesus here makes it very clear that although that these Jews are Israelites, they are the descendants of Abraham, but they are not really true Israel, even though the blood of Abraham flows in their veins. So a very
    fine distinction is being made. This is clear to see.

    Then in Luke 19:9, our Lord made the following statement to Zacchaeus “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” Thus, Christ said that Zacchaeus heart was like Abrahams: a lifestyle of love and of salvation, and faith. He could not mean anything else, since everyone
    knows that Zacchaeus was a Jew, and thus naturally a son of Abraham by birth.

    Jesus must then be speaking of sonship aquired by a process other than natural birth.

    Paul, in Romans 2:28, said, “A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one
    inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.” Paul
    said, then, that a real Jew is one by faith like Abraham.

    Galatians. 3:6ff. states,”Consider Abraham: He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.” A son of Abraham, then, has nothing to do with the blood in ones veins, but everything to do with what is in the heart.

    In Galatians . 3:26,29 Paul is speaking to Jews and Gentiles and says : “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

    Who,then, is a descendant of Abraham? Anyone who believes in Christ. Thus, anyone who believes in Christ is an heir of the promise that God made to Abraham. Paul is insisting, then, that the covenant is for both Jew and Gentile. Now we begin to see from the Bible the “Relationship of the Abrahamic Covenant to the
    Christian.”

    Galatians. 3:16,17 also provides the answer to Galatians. 3:6ff. states,”Consider Abraham: He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.” A son of Abraham, then, has nothing to do with the blood in ones veins, but everything to do with what is in the heart.

    Galatians. 3:16,17 also provides the answer to the question Who is the seed or the descendants of Abraham? “The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say and to seeds, meaning many people, but and to your seed, meaning one person, who is Christ.” Christ is the seed.

    And all those in Him become the descendants of Abraham. This means clearly then , that ALL those believers in Christ, all those who are in Christ are
    related directly back to Abraham, and are true Israel or Abraham’s offspring. Not by blood, but by faith. This means in effect, that we are included on every page of the Bible where there is a promise that refers to
    this aspect of the Abrahamic covenant. Again, not by blood, but by faith.

    We established at the very beginning of this essay that Abrahams covenant relationship was by his faith in God. Similarly , Christians – that is , all those in Christ are blessed. And the word blessed here means
    “empowered, and successful” in body, mind, spirit and thought. Thus, when the Church Age believer is filled with the Spirit, this believer is blessed or empowered with success in every way. For “through you (Abraham) all nations of the world will be blessed.” (Gen. 12:3).

    Galatians. 3:13 states plainly, “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is
    hung on a tree. He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might
    receive the promise of the Spirit.” So when we received the Holy Spirit we also received the promise that God promised to Abraham in Genesis 12. When
    we believe in Christ, we are heirs of the promise.

    Thus, we also may be “like Abraham” and walk with God, and express and receive agape love. So if
    we are in Christ, then we are in the real family of God, a descendant of Abraham– not by blood, but by faith.

    Clearly then in any discussion entitled “What Does The Bible Really Say About The Sons of Abraham” the Abrahamic is very relevant.

    Now note in my discourse my emphasis has been what will happen to Israel after the second phase of the second coming of Christ, i.e the Millennium when Christ will reign for 1000 years, as is clearly taught in the Psalms, and the prophetic scriptures.

  2. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    The Importance of Romans 9-11 iIn this disccussion

    Romans 9:6,7 is a key passage that will help us see that the physical Nation of Israel, despite all of its unique privileges and promises, was indeed a special nation, but, none the less, they were not a spiritual nation.

    There were spiritual individuals, but the nation by and large was unregenerate. As a nation, they were a “special natural” seed of Abraham even though lost or
    unsaved. They were special and different from all of the other physical seeds of Abraham, but they were just as non-special and non-different when compared with Abraham’s spiritual seed.

    It is this fact that Paul drives home so emphatically in Romans, chapter nine in the following key text:

    Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Rom 9:6,7

    We have already seen above that regardless of what promises were made to “Israel” in the Old Covenant, we must learn how to apply the principle “not
    all Israel is Israel” to all of God’s dealings with the nation made up of Jacob’s twelve sons. All of Abraham’s seed are not considered his
    “children,” or true seed that inherits the promise. This is just as true in the NT Scriptures as in the OT Scriptures. This is seen from a carefully
    look at Paul’s argument in Romans .

    Romans 9-11 deals with this question in the light of God’s eternal purposes as seen in the OT Scriptures and in history. Paul shows that God was not in
    any sense unfaithful to His covenant promises. God never has, nor ever will,fail to keep every covenant He has made.

    “However,” Paul declares, “God has never promised any spiritual blessing to anyone on the basis of fleshly
    birth.” This is the heart of the whole issue! Paul’s words apply to every Jewish child born into the Nation of Israel, and his words also apply to every child born of Christian parents today. This principle must be grasped
    and then consistently applied, as we read through the Bible.

    Every single promise of God that brings a spiritual blessing to any individual requires that individual to personally believe the promise. Israel never inherited
    the promised blessing because they “sought it not in faith” (Romans 9:32). In other words, they rejected the gospel message that Abraham, their forefather, had savingly believed.

    The heart of Romans 9-11 declares the absolute necessity of personal faith in order to receive any promised blessing from God. This is always true in
    every dispensation and under every covenant; and it is true for every person whether he is a Jew or Gentile; whether he was born of believing parents or
    unbelieving parents.

    Abraham’s true seed are all, without a single
    exception, born-again believers! We must not speak of anyone being an heir to any spiritual promise made to “Abraham and his seed” unless we see repentance and faith in that person.

    Here it is very clear that Paul is saying that “not all Israel is Israel”.This simply means the difference between people with special privileges and
    people that actually possess grace. Every Israelite enjoyed great privileges because of his physical birth (Rom 3:1-3), but no Israelite (or anyone else) ever possessed any special spiritual status or received any
    spiritual blessings apart from personal repentance and faith.

    God never promised an Israelite a single spiritual blessing just because he was an Israelite. Physical birth never put them, or anyone else, in a special or
    separate spiritual category before God. Israel definitely was in a separate physical category as God’s “chosen nation,” and she had special spiritual
    opportunities, but she was NOT in a special spiritual position before God.

    God did not deny His promise or fail to keep His covenant when He cast off the Jewish nation. He did not break or dishonor His “special covenant”
    relationship with Israel simply because that covenant and relationship were purely conditional and Israel never met the terms.

    Paul then gives a concrete illustration of exactly what he means. His real point in the illustration is that the “Israel within Israel” is a matter of sovereign election (Rom 9:11) and effectual calling (Rom 9:24),
    and has nothing at all to do with physical lineage. We must see this factclearly and hold on to it tightly! It is a Biblical key that unlocks many passages of Scripture.

    It is also very important to note that Paul does not
    demonstrate and prove the doctrine of election by comparing a seed of Abraham and Gentile, but he compares two Jewish children. And they are not
    just two ordinary Jewish children; they are the twin grandsons of Abraham himself as well as the true sons of believing Isaac.

    If ever there were two blue-blooded Jewish children,” they would be the twin grandsons of the man to whom the covenant was given in the first place. Paul uses Abraham’s twin grandsons in his illustration in order to demonstrate beyond any question that inheriting God’s true promises has nothing to do with being a Jew , nor
    with being “signed and sealed” with covenant signs – even the God-ordained covenant sign of circumcision which was placed on Abraham, his son Issac,
    and his twin grandsons.

    “And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac, (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any
    good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall
    serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob [the younger “covenant child”] have I loved, but Esau [the older “covenant child”] have I hated or prefered. Rom
    9:10-13.”

    In this illustration, Paul is telling us exactly what he means by “not all Israel is Israel.” Nothing that God ever promised or covenanted to the Nation of Israel guaranteed, in any sense whatever, that they, or their
    children, would receive spiritual blessings. They had privileges, but they did not have the certainty of the blessings. They had spiritual opportunities, but they were not by birth in a special spiritual category.

    Esau had every single privilege that Jacob had. In fact, he had more (He was the oldest son and had the birthright), but Esau was not part of the “seed
    of Abraham to whom the promises were made” even though he was a true “physical child of Abraham.” Esau received “the sign of the covenant” but he was not a true “covenant child.” God did not “establish his covenant” with Esau, even though the covenant promise was confirmed to both his believing
    father (Isaac) and his believing grandfather Abraham).

    If Esau is really a “covenant child” in any sense whatever, then Scripture clearly teaches
    that God hates some covenant children (Rom 9:13)!

    We must really grasp Paul’s basic argument in Romans 9-11, in these chapters, Paul is illustrating the basic principle that runs through all of Scripture, namely, that God’s grace is totally unconditional, and nothing, including all of the privileges listed in Romans 9:4,5, guarantees any individual a spiritual blessing.

    A Jew could not plead, on the basis of his physical birth and circumcision, any more from God than Esau could plead on the ground of his birth and circumcision. No priest or prophet could guarantee a Jewish parent that God had promised, in the covenant of circumcision, any more to him or his child than had been promised to Isaac as a believing father, or to Esau his circumcised son.

    If ever a believing parent could claim that both of his children were part of “Abraham’s seed” and “under the covenant,” it was Abraham’s own son, Isaac!

    What then is the point of Paul’s argument in Romans with respect to the relationship of the Abrahamic Covenant to the Christian? It is that in Romans, Paul demonstrates that the promises of the Abrahamic covenant do not apply to the Jews because of their birth or lineage.

    Paul is stating that only Jews who exhibited faith and obedience in God’s promises will benefit therefrom. One may conclude that perhaps others who are not Jews who exhibit faith and obedience in God’s promises will benefit therefrom. Since Romans
    9-11 deals only with the Jews, all that this argument from Romans contributes to this discussion is that the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant are not exclusively Jewish, and reinforces the principles upon
    which God grants the benefits of this promise.

    Certainly an understanding of the Dispensational chapters of Romans is verey relevant to a discussion of ” What Does the Bible Really Say About The Sons of Abraham.”


  3. @Georgie Porgie // June 9, 2010 at 10:45 AM

    “Mary was also descended from David via another line . David had several sons eh?”

    you still have not shown me that Mary was of royal lineage. i stated that God recognized the importance of stepfathers because Mathew 1:16 states “and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

    Jesus’ royalty and priesthood came from both stepfather and his heavenly father. God chose Mary as His earthly vessel to encapsulate the conception of this 100% human, 100% God. This union of Joseph and Mary was God’s way of showing humanity that the process of adoption of a child, is that child, being as your own flesh and blood. we are taught the we (Christians) have been adopted into God’s kingdom, and he becomes our father when accept Jesus as our Lord and saviour. i view the marriage of Mary and Joseph as symbolic of God’s willingness to adopt us as his own. it does not take away from Christ’ royalty or his priesthood, infact it enhances it. we are mere humans, subject to weaknesses at some point in time yet God has provided a way that we too could become ‘little Gods’ because we someday would be like him according to the bible. this is so because we too have become a royal priesthood born out of sin. your understanding might be different but i understand it this way and hope i have not offend you further


  4. GP!! Give de man a break, he didn’t actually say he “raised the bar”, that phrase was thrust around his neck like a millstone by BT so TMB gotta defend his “elevated status” but so far (and I can’t claim to know much about the topic) the bar seems to have fallen on him.

    Did TMB actually admit to plagiarizing some content for his article? Didn’t TMB also profess to be a published author among other things? Or is that more self aggrandizing from TMB? Seem to me that any author who admits to plagiarism is like a man sitting on the far edge of a branch busily sawing off the end attached to the tree.

    What’s that saying again…. “Give a man enough rope…..”


  5. The BU Ode

    I climbed Bush Hill in deep despair,
    With heavy heart and clothed in fear.
    Jack Bowman of the misplaced verb,
    Had promised he “will” be heard.

    The broad savannah loomed ahead,
    And in the distance, I did espy,
    Chris Halsall with a steady gaze,
    Walk yo walk, talk yo talk; unfazed.

    And then silence!
    No show Jack Bowman, of the verb,
    Had lost his nerve.
    Because his quiver was “empty”.


  6. One “man” BAD* decision 4000 years has resulted in ramifications which affect the whole world down into the 21st century…

    ABRAHAM* messed up big time in not being OBEDIENT* to God (given the future prophecy given him and his family) – but rather chose to listen to the voice of his wife (a mistake most of us men make as we try to please our other half). PRETTY STUPID ain’t it?

    This age-old DISOBEDIENCE* has brought about war, murder, sibling rivalry, posturing and stand-offs – polarizing the world along ethnic and ideological lines…

    It is the light of the 28th chapter of Deuteronomy (known amongst Jews as the Tokhahah) is a prophecy of a series of wonderful blessings and ominous punishments and curses that was visited upon the Israelite nation because they BLATANTLY* forsook GOD’s LAW*- the Torah (before they had even entered the promised land of Canaan – most of the generation which left Egypt, dying in the wilderness but did even worst as a new generation entered a new land).

    In the days of Moses, [6] of the [12] tribes would stand at the base of Mount EBAL (the mount of cursings) and the other [6] would stand at the base of Mount Gerizim (the mount of blessings) as the LAW* was read. At the end of the reading of each set of blessings or cursings – AMEN resounded!!!

    Many Jews and Christians today hardly place any serious emphasis on this portion of Scripture as it is read it with usual fear and trepidation.

    Yet we must ask that if there was a historical message from God to ancient as well as modern Israel contained in these troubling words but more so a serious warning to the modern Church – can we afford to be in denial???

    In EXODUS 24:12 Jehovah said unto Moses, “Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee TABLES OF STONE*, and a LAW*, and COMMANDMENTS* which I have written; that thou mayest teach them….

    Traditional historical & Modern Judaism is NOT* the LAW* and COMMANDMENTS* which God gave to Moses at Mt. Sinai.

    Judaism then and NOW* is a man-made religion created by Jewish RABBIS* for Jewish people and for those converts to the religion. Jehovah’s LAWS* and COMMANDMENTS* is NOT religiosity as many would have us believe but is a peculiar way of Life that is followed by those who are obedient to HIM*…

    But what is JUDAISM or Jewish tradition?

    The illustrated Oxford Dictionary describes Judaism as the religion of the Jews/ Jews collectively; Jewish – of or relating to Jews/ of Judaism; tradition – a custom, opinion or belief handed down to posterity, esp. orally or by practice…

    Students of Judaism know that there are several factions – Conservative, Reform, Orthodox, Hassic etc;

    The Talmud is one of the major “holy” books of Judaism.

    This book is held in higher esteem than The Holy Scriptures in some forms of Judaism, this is stated in the Talmud… The TALMUD* is the body of Jewish civil and ceremonial law and legend comprising the MISHNAH* and the GERMRA*…

    It is from the writings of the Talmud where the so called “RACIST” curse of HAM* started. The Talmud states that BLACK* people are cursed with BLACK* skin because Noah cursed his son (Ham) on the Ark.

    We know however from the Scriptures that Noah got DRUNK* and his balls were literally at the door and his son refused to cover his father but rather told his brothers in a attitude of irreverent poetic humor…

    It is clear from the Talmud what the diabolical penalty for disobedience to the Rabbis was – (no wonder JESUS did not spare these inglorious “basterds”)…

    In ERUBIN 21b it says – “whosoever disobeys the Rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in HELL”…

    In SANHEDRIN 76a the Talmud states that “God will not spare a Jew who (“marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean)…”

    The penalty for hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God (is it no wonder that Jewish life is treated as sacred and ARAB, GENTILE and every other life DAMNABLE)…

    In SANHEDRIN 58b it says that “if a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, that Gentile must be killed”…

    Today Palestinian Olive Oil producers have their exports treated unfairly because the Talmud says that it justifiable to cheat non-Jews…

    In SANHEDRIN 57a it says that “a Jew need not pay a Gentile (“Cuthean”) the wages owed him for work”…

    In referencing MOED KATTAN 17a it says quite clearly that “if a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there”…

    The mythology rampant TODAY that Jews possess some superior legal status in the world has come down from the Talmud…

    In BABA KAMMA 37b it says that “if an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is to be in full.”

    The Jews argue that they have not stolen land from the ORIGINAL* settlers of Canaanite lands (and based on war & conquest when Joshua & Caleb entered this new land – and we understand the “DEAL” God had made with Abraham) – however, today the situation is frankly pathetic…

    In the Talmud, BABA MEZIA 24a tells us that “if a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile (“heathen”), it does not have to be returned. (cited also in Baba Kamma 113b).

    This diabolical collection of rabbinic writings called the Talmud – states categorically in ERUBIN 21b in the SONCINO* edition:-

    “My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament).”

    Jews today value the oral traditions of the so-called learned RABBIS* above the inspirational word given to MOSES*…

    No wonder JESUS said – “call no man Rabbi”… For HE* was the only ONE* worthy of such a TITLE*….


  7. @ Sargeant

    “TMB gotta defend his “elevated status” …

    Question my dear brother???

    Who has done this ELEVATION?

    It seems like someone raised the roof without me knowing in advance…

    Another question?

    If I go to MY FRIDGE* and take an “apple” or an “orange” – can I be willfully charge for stealing?

    Misc: My book are free* to PURCHASE (LOL) at;

    http://www.amazon.com/Husbands-Love-Your-Wives-Good/dp/142088963X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274442535&sr=1-1-spell

    http://www.publishamerica.net/product90712.html


  8. Much of modern day Jewish tradition is based on the TANAKH…

    The Tanakh according to Wikipaedia came into prominence when “The Great Assembly” (Hebrew: כְּנֶסֶת הַגְּדוֹלָה‎) or the “Anshei Knesset HaGedolah” (אַנְשֵׁי כְּנֶסֶת הַגְּדוֹלָה, “The Men of the Great Assembly”), also known as the “Great Synagogue”, (Could this have been the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?) was, according to “Jewish tradition”, an assembly of 120 scribes, sages, and prophets, in the period from the end of the Biblical prophets to the time of the development of Rabbinic Judaism, marking a transition from an era of prophets to an era of Rabbis…

    “Tanakh” is not the Hebrew word for the Old Testament…

    “Tanakh” is a created word…

    It stands for “TORAH” (LAW INSTRUCTIONS); NEVI’M (The Prophets) and KETHUVM (The Writings)…

    When you insert the vowel points to TNK – you have TANAKH.

    TANAKH just like Judaism and Talmud it’s not mention in Scriptures, the reason being they all are words created by unlearned Gentiles who call themselves Jews…

    Mark 7:13 says that these said JEWS* were “making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye…

    Scathing condemnation of those who claim to have Abraham as their father…

    For Jesus this didn’t mean CRAP!!!

    Actually, HE* clearly said to them that they were like their “(FATHER*) the DEVIL***…

    So Abraham’s SEED* meant “diddly-squat” with a TRUE LOVE* for JESUS!!!

  9. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    Sargeant

    I am quite aware that TMB’s status as a bar raiser was given by the omniscient and all wise BT. But TMB accepted the alcolade, or at least he didn’t state that he was not a bar raiser.
    Secondly, to whom much is given, much is required. Ah lie?
    What is very clear from his comments is that he does not know the topic he started out discussing very well, and he is loathe and unable to respond properly to any reasonable questions asked without ad hominems, attempts to play to the gallery and or obvious distractions. He has not been able to bring any scripture from the Bible to support any of his error, but resorts to quotations from here there and in the air, in rokesque fashion. .It is quite hilarious.

    And of course he is getting lots of rope.
    It is said. The higher the monkey climb the tree the more he show he tail.

    The more this joker continues rambling the more he demonstrates that he has said all that he knows about Abraham’s three lines and the practice of reverse primogeniture- which were both irrelevant to the scriptures with which he started his discourse.


  10. HERE IS A RIDICULOUS PARODY OF HOW MANY MODERN JEWS SEE RELIGION:

    This should make us all think about so-called jewishness…

  11. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    Ms anon

    Please kindly note that you have not offended me at all.

    That we have “ become a royal priesthood:” is taught in 1 Peter 2 but I am not sure if you meant to say “born out of sin” or BORN AGAIN (literally “out from above in the Greek) from sin, which is more correct.

    Re “Mary was also descended from David via another line . David had several sons eh?”
    Are you aware that David had several sons.
    Are you aware that the line given in Mathew via Solomon was tainted and that is one of the reasons why Mathew 1:16 states “and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

    This was important not in showing that Joseph was Christ’s adoptive father, but in advancing the thread started in Genesis 3:15 that Jesus would be born of a virgin. Cf also Isaiah 7:14 Galatians 4:4

    If you watch this little video and check the Scriptures yourself, perhaps you might learn a little something here my friend.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqKzGLdWmeM

    You will of course find Mary’s royal lineage described in Luke chapter 3, a fact I omitted to point out yesterday.

    I hope that I have now shown you from the Scriptures that Mary was of royal lineage, and that “Mary was also descended from David via another line, since David had several sons, or other sons.

    You state that Jesus’ royalty and priesthood came from both stepfather and his heavenly father. NOW YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS FALSE! Joseph was descended from the cursed Jeconiah (Jehoiakin cf Jer 23).

    Note that though we are taught the we (Christians) have been adopted into God’s kingdom, and he becomes our father when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, that the doctrine of adaption of the believer (huios thesia) has nothing at all to do with what we call adoption today.

    Note that Jesus was not adopted as we are, and he is never called “huios” once in the NT Greek. Jesus was EVER the Son of God.

    The marriage of Mary and Joseph is not ANY symbol of God’s willingness to adopt us as his own. The marriage of Mary and Joseph has nothing at all to do with the doctrine of adaption of the believer (huios thesia). That is another issue all together. What is more in view here is the concept of the kinsman redeemer, which is best illustrated in the book of Ruth (which also mirrors the truths of Ephesians 2).

    Christ’ royalty or his priesthood has nothing to do with adoption nor is it enhanced there by. This is contrary to the teaching of Hebrews which deals with Christ’s priesthood, and states that he is EVER a priest after the order of Melchizedek without beginning or end.

    I hope I have clarified a few things for you. But in the final analysis I always advise folk to do like the Saints at Berea who searched the scriptures to see if the things they were taught was really so.

    I will later try to post a good note from a great source on the doctrine of the adoption of sons.


  12. All the people posting messages on this thread are missing the point.

    They are neglecting the tribe of Aaron (who preferred to be called “Ronnie”).

    Ronnie begat Shaniqua, Jamal, Dickwad and Smegma (Genesis, 15:3). But Smegma’s fourth wife Barbra (of the Stri-Sand) begat Steve, who married Geoff’s niece, Roberta Moo-Gabe (Ezekial 24: 9). And Ronnie was sore displeased, promising to SMITE the seed of Geoff.

    And the seed of Geoff was SMITTEN, yea unto the twelfth generation (Proverbs, 9: 24). But in the thirteenth generation came Joshua, Samuel, and Big Dave (also known as Dik-Hed in early Hebrew sources). And Big Dave was sore displeased with all the smiting.

    So Dave reached a covenant with the Lord (who in those days preferred to be called “Marcia”), and Dave and Marcia DID smite all the seed of Steve, yea unto the sixteenth generation. Decades passed in the sand, and there was an awful lot of smiting going on (Psalms, 31: 5).

    And then came Tanisha, the wife of Dwayne (Kings, 7: 42), who was sore displeased with the endless smiting and the disagreeable bathroom facilities (Isaiah 2: 95).

    And Tanisha reached a covenant with the Lord (who in those days preferred to be called “Groucho”). So Tanisha and Groucho did SMITE the seed of Geoff’s niece Roberta. All were SMITTEN except Jethro, the second cousin of Dumbass (Exodus, 5: 31)

    Jethro was found as an infant in a river and raised as a Prince of Egypt (Deuteronomy, 15: 3). And then came the day of his bar-mitzvah. And Jethro was sore displeased with the entire smiting situation, so to bring peace to the land he chose to call himself “Bados” at his bar-mitzvah. And his seed thenceforth was called Bar-Bados (Luke, 15: 3).

    This IS the word of the Lord.

  13. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    @ Ms Anon

    Here is a good short comprehensive note on the doctrine of the adoption of sons as taught in the NT.

    Clearly Jesus was not adopted as a son of God as believers are. In the above I ought to have said Jesus is never called a teknon.

    The word adoption in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word (huiothesia) which means “the placing of an adult son” and refers to the formal act of recognizing the maturity of an adult son. The word is found in five New Testament passages: Rom. 8:15,23: 9:4; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5.

    A new-born baby is (brephos), as in “the babe (brephos), lying in a manger…”. The word sometimes refers to the fetus, as in “…the babe (brephos) leapt in her womb…”

    The believer is also called (teknon), a child which is growing up but which is still under parental care. Hence John 1:12, “…to them gave He power to become the sons (teknon) of God.”

    But a Christian is also in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is called (huios), “an adult son”. So, in union with Him, we are said to be adult sons also, although we may be (brephos) or (teknon) by experience.

    To the people living in the predominantly Greek and Roman culture of the 1st Century A.D., the word (huiothesia) would bring to mind the ceremony of toga virilis, in which a 14-year-old boy went through an investiture ceremony with the adult male members of his family. At this ceremony, speeches of challenge to the youth would be made, and offerings would be made to the gods. Then, the boy would stand in the center of the group and take off the child’s garment that he wore. A new adult man’s robe, or toga, would be placed on him. This was the toga virilis, the “robe of a man”.

    At this time, the 14-year-old was given adult privileges and responsibilities. He could conduct business in his own name, could buy and sell property, could marry, could vote in the Assembly, and in many other ways could carry on as an adult citizen. Of course, he was not mature enough or wise enough to exercise all of the privileges he had; and he was not experiences enough to live up to all of the responsibilities. But the seriousness of his position as a citizen was impressed on him; and if he was intelligent and hard working, he would grow up to be an adult having integrity and character.

    Application: The spiritual use of the word “adoption” signifies the placing of a newborn child, in the spiritual sense, into the position of privilege and responsibility attached to an adult son. The question arises as to why a naturally born child needs to be adopted. Are we not, after all, “born again”? It is here that the true meaning of “adoption” comes in; because in the New Testament, “adoption” refers to a positional advance. The new believer is advanced positionally to his majority, even though at the time of salvation he is spiritually immature, a “babe in Christ”.

    Because spiritual adoption takes place at the moment of salvation, there is really no period of childhood experience recognized for believers. The Christian has been placed into the privilege, liberty, and duty of a full-grown adult. Spiritual adoption imposes the same way of life on all children of God. This requirement is reasonable because the Christian life is to be lived in the sustaining and upholding power of the Holy Spirit. And this provision is available as much for one person as for another.

    Every believer, from the moment of salvation, is in full time Christian service. While long years of experience and training in the Christian way of life give skill and maturity, those years add no more resources or provision than were available when the Christian was first saved. Therefore, the word “adoption” means that from the very first of our Christian lives we have full provision, the freedom to have a relationship with God on an adult basis, the freedom to serve Him. Full-time Christian service is nothing more than the freedom to have a relationship with God.

    There is also a future aspect to “adoption”, that of our ultimate placing as adults in eternity, as shown in Romans 8:23. There we will have the resurrection body, we will see Christ face to face, and we will have no Sin Nature or human good. So we will be able to function perfectly in Christ, as adults in maturity.


  14. There’s a reason why, we blacks have no sustainably large black communities in this world. Oh! I concede we live in communities sponsored by whites, but not owned by blacks. This specific incident of blogging about religion, has unmasked on really completely befuddled we are as a people. Most “Parrot”bible toting christians are lost, lost in themselves. The European indoctrination has replaced, once good common sense with arrogant intellectual foolishness. Why are most of you, selling, peddling a lie, for our European oppressors? Are you so miserable being black, that you would continually allow yourselves to think in the European mindset? Come on people, wake up. If in the twenty first century, with all of this information available to us all, and some of us choose ignorance, then guess what, then like Carter G Woodson said, we must invest in the “Talented ten percent.” I’ve read elaborate writings on this blog, on religion, let me ask any of you this, has religion made a better life for any of you and your families, and how has it done so? Most of us, Barbadians, are caught up in the semantics, and pageantry of intellect, but intellect has its price. The propagation of literary inaccuracies endangers generations yet unborn. Intellectual integrity, should be the compost, from which of you will build and sustain your positions. To otherwise plagiarize someones writings, without accurate mention of the author, is incidiously academically disrespectful. The difference between our European invaders and us, the “Giddy masses,” is that Europeans “Plan for generations yet unborn.” They have to plan far in the future you see, because to not to so would contribute to their demise. You who contribute these eloquent writings on this blog, well, perhaps you too are worried about our demise as a people. Tell me, how many black owned large financial institutions are owned by Barbadians? How many major commercial enterprises are owned by Barbadians? If North America,and Europe, stop their citizens from vacationing in Barbados for six months, where would the economy of Barbados be financially, better yet, where would most of your finances be? Okay, so most of you know the bible verse and text, I’m impressed. Life’s a business, what about your Financial IQ’s, can we start a blog about that? Enough already, bajans. Let’s be more productive with our time, and like an old headmaster I had use to say, “Let’s make wise use of our time.”


  15. If we are going to argue that out of the [12] TRIBES of Israel that JUDAH* is the one through whom the “genesis” of the JEWS came – the question is, where does the other [11] TRIBES factor in the grand scheme of things?

    Is the knowledge that we are spoon FED really truth?

    Let’s see what some of the reference material we cite can give us any indication as to where we are in this debate…

    In the Tanakh the words “Jew” – there are ONLY two meanings (1) a descendant of Judah or (2) someone who was loyal to the split kingdom of Judah. There is NO other meaning.

    Strong’s Ref. # 3064, Romanized Yhuwdiy, Pronounced yeh-hoo-dee’, patronymically from HSN3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (i.e. Judah): , KJV–Jew.

    This kind of Jew is not a description of the descendants of Jacob, just 1/12th of them.

    Strong’s Ref. # 3062, Romanized Yhuwda’iy, Pronounced yeh-hoo-daw-ee’, (Aramaic) partial from HSN3061; a Jehudaite (or Judaite), i.e. Jew: , KJV–Jew.

    A Jehudaite is a member of the nation of Judah. This would include all the non Israelites who lived in the Kingdom of Judah…

    Why was the nation called Judah?

    Most places are given their name after some famous person.

    Because the kingdom was called Judah, that did not mean the people living there were descendants of Judah.

    Most of them did not come from Judah at all.

    Strong’s Ref. # 3067, Romanized Yhuwdiyth, Pronounced yeh-ho-deeth’, the same as HSN3066; Jewess; Jehudith, a Canaanitess: , KJV–Judith.

    Hmmm it appears to be female Jews who are Canaanites?

    This will need to be looked into this one further.

    Strong’s Ref. # 2453, Romanized Ioudaios, Pronounced ee-oo-dah’-yos, from GSN2448 (in the sense of GSN2455 as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah: , KJV–Jew(-ess), of Judaea.

    This would include the tribes of Benjamin, Levi and Judah … as all the “GOYIM” who lived in the country of Judah…

    Strong’s Ref. # 2449, Romanized Ioudaia, Pronounced ee-oo-dah’-yah, feminine of GSN2453 (with GSN1093 implied); the Judaean land (i.e. Judaea), a region of Palestine: , KJV–Judaea.

    This would be about 1/3 of the land area of Israel, where the nation of Judah existed.

    BUT WHO WERE THE JEHUDITES / JEWS

    NUMBERS 1:21 Reuben, were forty and six thousand and five hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:23 Simeon, were fifty and nine thousand and three hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:25 Gad, were forty and five thousand six hundred and fifty.
    NUMBERS 1:27 Judah, were threescore and fourteen thousand and six hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:29 Issachar, were fifty and four thousand and four hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:31 Zebulun, were fifty and seven thousand and four hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:33 Ephraim, were forty thousand and five hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:35 Manasseh, were thirty and two thousand and two hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:37 Benjamin, were thirty and five thousand and four hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:39 Dan, were threescore and two thousand and seven hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:41 Asher, were forty and one thousand and five hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:43 Naphtali, were fifty and three thousand and four hundred.
    NUMBERS 1:46 Even all they that were numbered were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.

    =603055, total number of 11 tribes

    Levi not numbered… so let’s use average
    603055 / 11= 55095 average per tribe.
    55095 X 12 = 661,140 Israelites (total) numbered males over 18

    These 3 tribes were who the Jehudites were:
    Judah 74600
    Ben 35400
    Levi (avg) 55095

    Nation of Judah 165095 / 661,140 = 25%

    75% of the Israelites were never Jews – Jehudite = of the kingdom of Judah…

    The word Jew can mean one who joined a political group or if you wish Jew can mean Jehudite or kingdom of Judah…

    There is not now a kingdom of Judah and there has not been a kingdom of Judah for 2,300 years…

    Any definition you pick – no matter what there is, no such thing as a Jew that has existed for 2,300 years…

    Those who became part of the nation of Judah were 3/12ths of the tribes meaning 75% of the tribes of Israel were never Jews.

    THE ISRAELITEs NEVER DROVE OUT THE REST OF THE CANAANITE ARABS FROM THE LAND…

    II CHRON. 2:16 Solomon took a census of all the foreigners who were in the land of Israel… and they were found to be (153,600) one hundred fifty three thousand and six hundred…

    When Solomon took census, he did not go into the Arab tribes (Philistines, Canaanites, Jebusites, Hivites, Hittites, Moabites, Midiaites, Parrizites) that were there before the Israelites crossed the Jordan river…

    The foreigners numbered by Solomon were those who escaped with them from Egypt…

    The Canaanite Arabs who were already in the land of Canaan far exceeded the 150,000 mentioned in 2 CHRONICLES…

    You can prove that by simply looking at the verses where they mention the battles and the numbers of Arabs they fought against…

    The foreigners that Solomon counted were those who migrated to Canaan with them from Egypt… then there were hundreds of thousands of Arabs already living in Canaan when the Israelites returned…

    When the Israelites left to go into Egypt, there were less than 50 Israelites in existence on earth…

    When they left Canaan, there were thousands of Arabs still living in Canaan.

    Those multiple Arab nations in Canaan were producing even MORE descendants in the 490 years while the Israelites were SLAVES* in Egypt…

    When the Israelites crossed over the Jordan, they were far out numbered by the other Arabs already there and to boot, while out of the 1.3 million who came out – they brought 150,000 more Egyptian Arabs with them from Egypt…

    This is only a small fraction of the verses showing the fact that the Israelites NEVER drove out all the Arab tribes that were there when they crossed the Jordan river…

    JOSHUA 15:63 reminds us that “as for the Jebusites the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah could not drive them out; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem to this day”… (INTERESTING)!!!

    JUDGES 1:21 says “and the children of Benjamin did not drive out the Jebusites that inhabited Jerusalem; but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Benjamin in Jerusalem to this day…

    JUDGES 1:32 says “but the Asherites lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land: for they did not drive them out”…

    JUDGES 1:19 says “and the Lord was with Judah; and HE* drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron”…

    JOSHUA 17:12 says “yet the children of Manasseh could not drive out the inhabitants of those cities; but the Canaanites would dwell in that land…”

    Not only did they live among all the other Arabs who were there before them, they also lived among over 150 thousand others they brought with them out of Egypt at the EXODUS***

    The Israelites fought with them, traded with them, married them and produced their children with them…

    The whole nation of Israelites was a nation of Israelites and non-Israelites, the divided nation was two nations of Israelites and non-Israelites…

    A nation of people is the combined people who live in that nation.

    Israel was NEVER* a nation of Israelites no more than America is a nation of Englishmen…

    When you say nation of Israel or nation of Judah, you are not saying nation of Israelites, you are saying nation of a pot luck of Arabs…

    King David lived so close to his non-Israelite neighbor, that he could lust after BATHSHEBA* (THE WIFE OF HIS HITTITE GENERAL URIAH) who eventually became his ole’ lady.

    The nation of Israel had non Israelite armor bearers and non Israelite captains, in their military…

    The kingdom of Israel, the kingdom of Judah were not nations of Israelites, they were nations of every Arab nation that lived in those kingdoms.

    There were non Israelites in the Israelite military, the Israelites married the non Israelites around them…

    The word Jew, means one of the kingdom of Jehudite / Judah – and of course that included a whole pot luck of non Israelites…

    Jeudah, also spelled JUDEA, JEUDE, JEUDI, OR JUDAH, Hebrew YEHUDAH, the southernmost divisions of ancient Palestine..

    In the Easton Bible dictionary Jew – the name derived from the Patriarch Judah, at first given to one belonging to the tribe of Judah or to the separate kingdom of Judah (2 Kings 16:6; 25:25; Jer. 32:12; 38:19; 40:11; 41:3), in contradistinction from those belonging to the kingdom of the ten tribes, who were called Israelites…

    It looks to me like Easton goofed…

    The kingdom called Israelites were composed of 9 tribes, not 10. The kingdom of Judah was composed of the Levites, Benjamites and tribe of Judah…

    A kingdom or nation is composed of
    #1 A specific land area…
    #2 The rulers of that land / people and…
    #3 The people who are ruled by those rulers…

    You can compare the kingdom of Judah with the Confederate nation in America. It was forged out of a political feud, it separated for a period of time and then it was overthrown and ceased to exist…

    The word Jew in the context of “Judaite” was the people of the nation of Judah. Jews / Jehudites = the people who lived in the kingdom of Judah…

    That would include all the Hittites, Moabites, Midianites, Jebusites, Egyptians… that would include all people who were ruled by that kingdom…

    The members of the tribe of Benjamin or Levi were no more Jews than any Cananites, Havites or Philistines who lived in that Empire / Kingdom…

    ESTHER 8:17 reminds us – “and many of the people of the land became Jews for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

    Strong’s Ref. # 3064, HSN3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew)

    The people of the land were NON-Israelite Persians, who simply made themselves Jews.

    A Jew is not a descendant of the Israelites it is a political commitment to the kingdom of Judah – (which no longer exists)…

    The word Jew is not a reference to the 12 tribes of Israel.

    Jew is a reference to descendants of Judah or citizens of the nation of Judah.

    No one can belong to a nationality when that nation no longer exists…

    Benjamites nor Levites can no longer be referred to Jews no more than any living person today can be identified as a Trojan…

    The ONLY thing that made Benjamites and Levites Jehudites / Jews was their nationality. It is like what made the people of South Carolina, Confederates, was their split and loyalty to the break away nation…

    When the government of the divided kingdom lost their power to control that land area, the nation of Judah and every Jew (by nationality) ceased to exist…

    When Israel was divided, the kingdom of Israel extended over into what is now Jordan…

    The kingdom of Judah existed in the south. It was about 1/3 of the land area…

    When the Hebrew text identifies who Jews were – Jew is just short for Jehudite and Jehudite who were the people who were loyal to the southern split…

    This was the kingdom of Judah.

    The citizens were named after their kingdom (Jehudites / Jews ) and when the nation ceased to exist, so did the nationality ceased to exist…

    Jews / Jehudites have not existed since the nation ceased to exist…

    Jews no longer exist no more than anyone today is a Spartan…

    The word Jew no longer applies to any Benjamite or Levite…

    You fairly can say because no Jewish / Jehudite nation no longer exist, that does not change the fact that the descendants of Benjamin or Levi are still descendants of the Israelites?

    True and it does not change the fact that the Benjamites, Levites and tribe of Judah were nothing but a pot luck of Arabs in the first place…


  16. @ Anonymous

    “so most of you know the bible verse and text, I’m impressed. Life’s a business, what about your Financial IQ’s, can we start a blog about that?”

    NO BRO, LET’S TEACH A NEW MINDSET!!!

    LET’S TEACH FOLKS HOW TO GROW WEALTH THROUGH MENTAL FISCAL STIMULUS!!!

    Daniel 12:1 reminds us that in the last days men will run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased…

    Folks have a human right to knowledge (in whatever form they choose it)…

    That in itself is a fundamental HUMAN RIGHT enshrined within our DNA…

    Thankfully no one has the PATENT* on knowledge…

    WISDOM* however maybe a different “kettle of fish”…

    Your serious point of view on financial literacy is well taken MY DEAR BROTHER…

    What is sad Anonymous is that those of us who are WISE* financially and can teach others how to build wealth – as BLACK* folks (especially West Indians) we have a lot of growing up to do in this respect…

    There is too much “NIT-PICKING”; PETTY-JEALOUSIES; RANCOR AND CAGE-RATTLING!!!

    The “crabs-in-a-barrel” syndrome is something we have not been able to break free from no matter how much knowledge we have…

    No wonder so many of us Black folks who are doing great in tough economic times – who have invested WISELY*, saved and are building businesses based on serious entrepreneurial activity choose to live outside of the countries we love…

    Better to be Joseph down in Egypt than the FAMILY* who squabbles, fights and kills eachother down in Israel… (SADLY, even down in Egypt brother was still trying to kill brother)… sad, SO SAD…

    My philosophy is simple BRUV* –

    Every man for himself – God for all…

    If we can agree – then we can do some business… If NOT*, well the above statement applies!!!

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re If we are going to argue that out of the [12] TRIBES of Israel that JUDAH* is the one through whom the “genesis” of the JEWS came – the question is, where does the other [11] TRIBES factor in the grand scheme of things?

    Who among serious sane sober sound systematic students of the Scriptures teaches that
    out of the [12] TRIBES of Israel that JUDAH* is the one through whom the “genesis” of the JEWS came?

    WHO TEACHES THAT?

    Here we see a strawman being set up.

    Let us use the law of first mention to harp on the role and importance of JUDAH!

    The Scriptures teach the following in Genesis 49:8-11

    8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee.
    9. Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
    11. Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12. His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

    The punch line in this prophesy given by Jacob on his death bed about his fourth son Judah is given in verse 10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

    This prophesy refers to Christ who is here referred to as Shiloh who arose from the tribe of Judah, and who will become King for ever. Note that is unto him Shiloh that the gathering of the people will be. This prophesy is yet unfulfilled, and awaits fulfillment in the millennium when the people will be gathered to Christ as noted by Isaiah in chapter 60 in the verses cited at the beginning of this discussion.

    Note that the term JEW is never used to refer to any person in Israel UNTIL AFTER THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY c f Ezra Esther Nehemiah etc Ah lie?

    After the kingdom of Israel as led by David and Solomon divided in the days of Rehoboam and Jeraboam the northern 10 tribes were called ISRAEL, the two southern tribes were called JUDAH.

    If you read Chronicles and Kings carefully, you will find that after Jeroboam raised the golden calves in Dan & Beersheba that MANY OF THE FOLK IN THE NORTHERN TRIBES DEFECTED TO THE SOUTH INCLUDING THE LEVITES.

    The Northern kingdom was captured and taken away into captivity by the Assyrians. After some time the Southern Kingdom was captured and taken away into captivity by the Babylonians who had superceded the Assyrians. History reveals that the Southern Kingdom ended up in the same area to which the Northern kingdom had been transferred.

    It is only after 20 % percent of this group returned with Zerubbabel Ezra and Nehemiah that we see the word Jew being used in the OT. Don’t take my word. Go read it for yourself.

    There is not now a kingdom of Judah and there has not been a kingdom of Judah for 2,300 years…NOT SINCE THE BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY And there wont be a split kingdom ever again, because JESUS WILL REIGN OVER THE ENTIRE GROUP OF ISRAELITES IN THE MILLENNIUM along with the gentiles of the world.

    .One wonders who it was that returned after the Babylonian captivity? Were they only judiths and judy’s and julies. How do we know who they were? Who are the people called Jews in the NT? Who are the people of whom the High Priest in John 11 referred to when he spoke of THEIR NATION.

    Re The word Jew is not a reference to the 12 tribes of Israel. Where is the Scripture references? Some one is contradicting post exhilic scriptures, and I am not talking about the memoires of TANK or THOMAS TRAINS.

    If Jew is only a reference to descendants of Judah or citizens of the nation of Judah why are the folk in the NT always called Jews instead of judiths and judy’s and julies. . Did Mathew and Mark and John and Paul not even know their nationality.

    If “No one can belong to a nationality when that nation no longer exists…” Why are the deportees and exhiles from Israel called Jews throughout the OT even after AD 70 Remember the aged John wrote after AD 70. Some one is going all around the world to conclude with LIES. Ah lie?

    Why is it that some bar raisers start in the Bible but cant prove their poinbt in the Bible but are wandering life a ship with out a rudder or rambling like Rose?

  18. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Now Onlookers

    I am always willing to learn

    There is no Nation OF JEWS we are told . OK!
    JEWS DONE we are told . OK!

    So of whom does the prophet speak in Obadiah 15 3t secq (Note this quote is from the Bible book of Obadiah not TANK TOPS or TANKS MEMOIRES or any thing so OK?)

    15. For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

    16. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

    17. But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

    18. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.

    19. And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead.

    20. And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.

    21. And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’s.

    Who are the house of Jacob?

    Who are the the house of Esau (if not Edom also Arabs)? Read the whole chapter and see.

    What will be thier posessions and victories in the day of the Lord?

    What does the Word of God say about this matter? (Not the Tank Top or the Tank or whatever)

  19. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Now I am quoting from Malachi 4
    Chapter 4
    1. For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

    2. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

    3. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Again when is the day of the LORD?
    To whom is the prophet speaking when he says ” unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings?”

    Who is the Sun of righteousness but the same person whom the Arabs are bringing gifts in Isaiah 60 that we agree are the descendants of Abraham’s lines?

    Who is the LORD of hosts?

    Of whom is the prophet speaking when he says “And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.”

    What does the TANK TOP and TANKS MEMOIRES SAY ABOUT THESE MATTERS ?

    How does the raiser of the bar explain these UNFULFILLED scriptures that relate to the millenium?

  20. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Blackett my dear friend

    I dont know about the TACKY BOOK OR TANKS MEMOIRES etc so I have to talk about what I know the OLD BOOK THE BIBLE. And I dont know no post modernism nonsense either

    I in to my third Monor Prophet to teach you a likkle ting or two bout Israel man.

    Here is what youcan AD-DUCE or DE-DUCE or EX-DUCE from Jonah. If you dont like the verb duco you can go to ferro ferre tuli latum and see what you can IN-FER!

    BYW this is from my notes entitled JOTTINGS IN JONAH

    • JONAH –A TYPE OF ISRAEL
    • We should not conclude a lesson on Jonah without speaking of the dispensational significance of Jonah and his mission.
    • Jonah was called as God’s ambassador and sent to preach repentance to the gentiles –so was Israel.
    • Israel, like Jonah, was chosen of God to be His witness. (See Deu 14:2 and Eze 20:5.)
    • As Jonah, so Israel was commissioned of God. (Note Is 43:10-12 and 44:8.)
    • 2- Like Jonah, Israel was disobedient to the will of the Lord. (Cp. Ex 32:1-4; Judg 2:11-19; Eze 6:1-5; Mk 7:6-9.)
    • Jonah initially refused compliance with the divine purpose and plan, objected to the gentiles being blessed, fled from his unpleasant task and was tossed into the sea.
    • In the same way, Israel, because of their disobedience to God, has been thrown into the sea by being swallowed up by the nations of the world; who will yet give her up when Christ returns.
    • Then Israel will be witnesses of God everywhere.
    • 3 Just as Jonah found himself among men of different nationalities, so Israel in disobedience has been scattered throughout the earth. (Deu 4:27; Eze 12:15.)
    • While Jonah was among the heathen they came to a knowledge of God; while Israel is among the nations the Gentiles come to know the Lord. (Note Romans II: II.)

    • 4 Jonah was miraculously preserved in the prepared fish, just as Israel has been miraculously preserved in the plan of God through the centuries of exile and dispersion. (See Ho 3:3;Jer 30:11 and 31:35-37.)
    • Although Jonah was punished by being cast into the sea, Jonah was, however, not lost, but was preserved during this part of his experience . In like manner , Israel is now cast into the sea of the nations, [by being dispersed among the nations] , but like Jonah , Israel is not lost .
    • Israel is not being assimilated by the nations ,but is being kept for God. Eventually , Israel will be cast up on earth (in a sense) and become ambassadors of Jehovah and the conveyors of blessings to the gentiles .
    • 5 Jonah, repentant and cast out by the fish, is restored to life and action again .
    • Similarly , Israel repentant and cast out by the nations shall be restored to her former national position. The nation of Israel was to have been a light to the gentiles .They were supposed to be God’s missionaries to the world .
    • Today the Jew is in a kind of the whale’s belly till he learns his lesson for her disobedience .
    • But as in the case of Jonah, the Lord will come to them a second time and the Jews will preach and men will hear just as in Jonah’s time.
    • Off course this will all happen towards the end of the great tribulation and we will get the chance to see the action from a place of safety from our vantage point in the clouds.
    • Eventually, just as Jonah, now obedient, went about his mission to Ninevah, similarly, Israel, obedient, shall ultimately engage in her original mission to the world .
    • Jonah was successful in that his mission was acted upon to the salvation of Ninevah .
    • Similarly, Israel shall be blessed in that she shall be used to the conversion of the whole world.
    • Truly the book of Jonah is a prophecy of Israel. Though there is not a word of prediction in this book, yet it is full of prophecy concerning Israel.

    What does the tanky and the tank tops say about that man? Eh?

  21. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Blackett

    What does the TAnk top and Tanks memoires say about Haggai 1 man?

    To whom was the prophet speaking? Not Jews returned from Babylon? The same folk who dont have a nation according to you Oh raiser of the bar!

    Has any of these prophesies been yet fulfilled?

    9. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.

    20. And again the word of the LORD came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month, saying, 21. Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; 22. And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.

    23. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Who is Zerubbabel in this verse.

    What is Zerrubbabel’s title in verse 21 Sir.

    Who is here called servant? Is he called servant elsewhere? Surely this is not the same Zerrubbabel?
    What is the signet? What does it stand for?

    Could this prophet be remotely saying that Christ will have authority over the whole world as taught in Revelation 5 and 19 and in Phillipians 2. Where the words ALL KINDREDS AND TONGUES ARE USED

    Cant you just see all those children from the other two lines bringing their gifts into Jerusalem just as you cited in from Isaiah 60 my dear dear friend, and depositing them at the FEET OF THE SEED?

    Consult the toppy or the tanky or the tank top man


  22. @Terence M. Blackett and @Georgie Porgie…

    If I May please…

    Throughout this, and many other debates, here and elsewhere, quotes from “sacred texts” are brought forward to try to prove the arguer’s point.

    It must, however, be agreed that there is uncertainty in the interpretation.

    Further, for those debating in the English, it must be acknowledged that the original texts were not written in modern English.

    So, from this then, I have three questions:

    1. Are there any non-religious records which can substantiate or counter the religious records?

    2. Who decides which is the correct interpretation and/or translation of any “sacred text”?

    3. Why do the Hindu and Buddhist (and other non-monotheistic) religions so rarely enter the debate in the western world?

    These are sincere and serious questions.

    I hope and look forward to similar answers….

  23. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Blackett we in Zephaniah chapter 3 here

    Show me the church in these verses man
    Show me from these verses OR THE NT where the Church has taken over thee promises Sir. (You may refer to your Tank Top and Tanks Mempoires)

    13. The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

    14. Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

    15. The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

    16. In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

    17. The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

    18. I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

    Clearly the prophet is not speaking of either the Isreal of the PAST OR THE PRESENT. Seems to e that he is speaking of the FUTURE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL IN THE MILLENNIUM. Ah Lie.

    Note that verses 13 DOES NOT SAY The remnant of THE CHURCH it clearly says “The remnant of Israel ” Ah lie.

    Note that in verse 14 It is NOT Sing Oh Church BUT Sing,

    It is NOT Sing Oh Church BUT O daughter of Zion; shout,

    It is NOT Shout Oh Church BUT O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem

    You got it yet?

    Now tell me Sir Who being spoon fed now?. Or your Bible different to mine in some sections ?

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Blackett thou raiser of the bar

    Harken unto the words of Habakkuk in chapter 3

    7. I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.

    What you think Terrence? Could this be the same Midian that you identified as part of the three {3} seeds of Abraham Sire?

    Help me understand the rest of the chapter as it relates to the eschaton Sir. I want to be a bar raiser too man.

    11. The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

    12. Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

    13. Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

    14. Thou didst strike through with his staves the head of his villages: they came out as a whirlwind to scatter me: their rejoicing was as to devour the poor secretly.

    15. Thou didst walk through the sea with thine horses, through the heap of great waters.

    16. When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when he cometh up unto the people, he will invade them with his troops.

    17. Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: 18. Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.

    19. The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds’ feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

  25. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    What should be clear to the uninitiated is that at the end of the Minor Prophets (not Jonah) there is usually at least one short passage that speaks of the fate of Israel in the eschaton- especially the millennium.

    I dont rant and rave about Israel’s current troubles, but I have faith in the predictions about them after the Lord comes at his epiphanaea or secon phase of the second coming.


  26. @ ANONYMOUS

    Here’s to you:-


  27. A WEBSITE EVERY BLACK PERSON SHOULD RESEARCH FOR THEMSELVES BEFORE WE MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT SO-CALLED JEWS* WHO FRANKLY HAVE PRECIOUS LITTLE TO DO WITH OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST…

    http://www.blacksandjews.com/Welcome.html


  28. The Birth of the EARLY* Church –

    Paul’s early missionary journey took him through some interesting GENTILE* land…

    Christians were such named FIRST* in ANTIOCH…

    BITHYNIA, CAPPADOCIA. DERBE, EPHESUS / EPHISIANS, GALATIA, ICONIUM, LYSTRA, PHRYGIA, PONTUS, TARSUS … All of these are cities in what we now commonly call Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, etc…

    In the OT this was all part of the Hittite Empire…

    Throughout history these land areas were called many different things, but by any name they are the same place – (i.e. one person living in the very same house could have been a Mexican, a Texan and an American, by nationality)…

    While the same people and their descendants lived in the same place, what they were called depended on what political grouping they had and who was possessed with the greatest power to murder the most people basically controlled the land area…

    The Hittite Empire included Turkey, Lebanon, parts of Syria and Canaan / Israel…

    Noah’s Ark Settled in Turkey and it is written the whole earth was populated by the sons of Noah…

    The Hittites / Turks / Ephesians / Galatians or what ever you want to call them were most likely the first cities or nations on earth after the flood…

    The whole earth was flooded for over a year and it would have taken months for the land to dry up…

    To hazard ONLY a guess but I figure Noah’s sons did not wait for the mud to dry up before they crawled under the covers with their wives… (sorry ya’ see the humor in human evolution)…

    Unless the children of Huey, Dewy and Louie married their own brothers and sisters, they created their families with their first cousins…

    The grand children of Shem, Ham and Japheth were out of their brother’s children and their own…

    Gen 36:2 says that Esau married Hittites…

    Esau’s clan was the Edomites and of course the Edomites married the Israelites…

    EZRA 9:1 tell us that “the people of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and the Amorites…”

    In this period they cast out the Hittites and their own children… but these children cast out, were the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Israel…

    The events of Joshua are recorded about 1400 BC, that is 850 years the Israelites were producing children with all the Arabs around them…

    JOSHUA 3:10 said – “hereby you shall know that the Living God is among you, and that He will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites…

    But* JUDGES 3:5 said that “the children of Israel lived among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites” and in JUDGES 3:6 reminds us that “they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons…”

    The Israelites had been marrying these other Arabs around them and producing children with them for over 800 years before the book of Ezra was conceptualized, so when they cast out these Arabs in the book of Ezra, the Israelites who cast them out were descendants of the same people they cast out… (WHAT AN IRONY)!!!

    Again the AGE-OLD story of BROTHER v BROTHER!!!

    The book of Ezra did not end such mixing, David married Bathsheba the wife of Uriah ( who was the mother of Solomon ) and Solomon had a whole pile of Hittite and other Arab women to tuck him in bed morning, noon and night!!!

    By the time we get to the NT, all those churches Paul and the CREW* had traveled to in Turkey were the churches of Arabs / Turks / Hittites / Ephesians … all of these saints said to be Gentiles were most likely descendants of the Israelite clan – all ARABS mixed in with all kinds of differing tribes…

    When those Arab women who were cast out with the children of the Israelites had returned to their families and of course those Israelite spread their seed / heredity of Israel, Isaac and Abraham into their children and grand children…

    When you look at the churches in the New Testament, when you look on any old Biblical map to see where they were, one would know that the first Christians were Arabs by descent …

    Arabs who were descendants of the Israelites and vica versa.

    When the Apostles went to the Arab Christians in the churches of Galatia by this time the Europeans had never heard anything of Christ.

    The Arabs were Christians while the European ancestors of the FAKE JEWS (Ashkenazis) were still involved in witchcraft and human sacrifices…


  29. The Mindlessness of Ignorant Christians –

    Many evangelical Christians today sit under the ruinous teachings of deluded pastors and ministers of darkness who spout venom at the QU’RAN* and Arabs without given equally the same weight to the Jewish TALMUD* and deceived Jews…

    Is that christian FAIRNESS?

    Why is GOD* no respector of GEOGRAPHY?

    JESUS spent HIS* first [12] years in an ARAB* country…

    The prophet said that “Out of *EGYPT* have I called my SON.”

    The Israelites were assimilated and absorbed into the different Arab lands losing their Hebrew language…

    Only a very small part of scholars practiced Hebrews…

    Even the Talmud and the present version of the Torah was translated from Greek / Latin…

    It is quite humorous to hear the importance the “blights of Europe” put on the ability to read Hebrew, when the Hebrew they have is just a translation from Greek or Latin.

    The only exception being text like the dead sea scrolls, but they are not the original text, they are only fragments and they were not written until AFTER Christ.

    Hebrew was an ancient Iraqi / Chaldean language…

    The Israelites began losing their language of Hebrews long before Christ…

    In one passage of the Torah, it is written how the Israelite children could no longer speak Hebrew because they had become such a pot luck of children from all the Arabs around them. Neh 13:24…

    And their children spoke half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews’ language, but according to the language of each people…

    2,000 years ago, Egypt and most of the western world was ruled from Rome…

    In the first century, Jesus of Nazareth began his ministry…

    After Jesus was crucified, His followers fanned out across the empire.

    Church tradition credits Mark with bringing Christianity to Egypt during the 1st century.

    Christianity spread throughout Egypt – it would eventually become known as the Coptic church.

    The Egyptians believed in the trinity, in a flesh trinity, which was basically a father and a mother and a son.

    And that’s why we know when Mark spoke about the holy trinity, the Egyptians didn’t have a major problem in accepting the holy trinity as three in one…

    Christianity that emerged in Egypt – its early teachings had remained something of a mystery until the discovery in 1945 of mystical Christian texts buried for more than 1,000 years…

    Named for the Egyptian town near which it was unearthed, this collection of some 50 works is known as the Nag Hammadi library…

    What the Nag Hammadi discovery shows is that the early Christian movement was interesting and complicated…

    It shows us that, instead of four gospels, which we have in the new testament, there were dozens, and it shows us what they said, and that they’re really quite different…

    The Nag Hammadi library paints portrait of Mary – as a trusted and outspoken confidant of Jesus…

    Here, she’s one of his closest disciples and one to whom he entrusted special teaching…

    Peter tells Mary that she can’t possibly have heard things like this from the lord because he would never tell them to a woman, and she objects and speaks against Peter, and is defended by the other disciples…

    There were a great many writings about Christianity and the accounts of Christ. The Bible of Today’s Christians is the composite of books put together by Egyptians…

    At the time of Christ the Romans ruled Egypt as they ruled Egypt…

    The major language of educated Egyptians (as the rest of the Roman Empire) was Latin or Greek…

    The text of the Torah was also Latin or Greek…

    Athanasius, the head of Egypt’s Christian church selected the books of the Bible that is used by Christians today…

    Athanasius proposed this list of acceptable texts, and the books found in the bible today are those he suggested in Egypt…

    As you open your Bible, know the text was selected from the Coptic Christian writings ( in Greek / Latin ) by the Egyptian Athanasius…

    Of course the Israelites were a composite of Egyptians…

    The tribe of Joseph came out of the womb of the Egyptian mother Asenath…

    ACTS 2:5 says “and there were dwelling at Jerusalem, devout men, out of every nation under heaven”…

    ACTS 2:10, “Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in *EGYPT*, and in the parts of Libya…”

    In Acts 2:5 we find devout men of every nation and in Acts 2:10 we find Egyptians are included in those devout Christians…

    MATTHEW 2:13 says “and when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appear to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into *EGYPT*, and be you there until I bring you word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him…”

    MATTHEW 2:14 says, “when he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into *EGYPT*…”

    MATTHEW 2:15 says “and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of *EGYPT* have I called my son”…


  30. Is this really the End Times aka World War III
    1. Israeli Fundamentalists Vs Muslim Fundamentalists
    2. Capitalist$ Government$ 4 Oil
    3. Christian Fundamentalists don’t want peace they want war in babylon
    Keith Hudson + Earl Flute – True
    To My Heart/Satan Side

  31. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ms Annonymous

    Here is J Vernon McGee on Coniah aka Jeconiah and his cutting off and the two lines of David as presented in Matt 1 & Luke 3

    Hope this helps

    JUDGMENT OF CONIAH
    Now we come to the very frightful and harsh judgment against the man Coniah.
    As I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence;
    And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans [Jer. 22:24–25].
    “Coniah” is Jehoiachin who was also called Jeconiah. Why does God call him Coniah? It is because the “Je” in Jeconiah stands for Jehovah. God is saying, “Don’t identify Me with that man!” He goes on to say, “Why, if he were the ring on My finger, I would throw him away!”
    Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
    O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
    Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah [Jer. 22:28–30]
    God cries to the whole earth to be His witness: No descendant of Coniah will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah. This is one reason that Joseph could not have been the father of Jesus. Joseph was in the line of Jeconiah, and God says no child of that line will sit on the throne of David.
    Does that mean the throne of David would be vacant from then on? Listen to another prophecy: “For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel” (Jer. 33:17). There will be Someone on the throne of David, but He will not be a descendant in the line of Jeconiah. In Jeremiah 36:30 we read: “Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost.” I remind you that Jehoiakim was the father of Jeconiah. God cut off that line.
    Now the remarkable thing is that there are two recorded genealogies of Jesus Christ, and there is a reason for that. The one recorded in Matthew chapter 1 leads to Joseph. It comes from David, through Solomon and Jeconiah, to Joseph. Joseph’s line gave to Jesus the legal title to the throne. But Joseph was not the father of Jesus. Jesus is not a descendant of that line. The second genealogy is in Luke 3:23–38. This is the genealogy of Mary, and it does not come through Solomon but comes through another son of David, Nathan. There is no curse and no judgment on that line. The Lord Jesus Christ was virgin born, and He came through Mary’s line. That is where He got the blood title to the throne of David. I find this to be one of the most remarkable things that has occurred in this world?
    That is why God calls the earth to listen: “O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.” He wants the earth to see that this is the way He has worked it out. God’s purposes will not be thwarted. He is able to bring judgment upon whomever He wills; yet He was able to fulfill His promise that the coming Messiah would be a descendant of King David.

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    The Lord Raiser of the Bar and author and celebrated scholar with brother at Oxford etc came on this thread and cited Isaiah 60: 6 & 7 seeking to teach us what the Bible teaches about the sons of Abraham

    Since the only thing that this text teaches about the sons of Abraham is that the sons of Hagar and Keturah will in the Millennium come offering gifts to the son of Isaac. He rambled on to give a very primitive baic sunday scholl lesson to show that Abraham had three lines and that God often used practised reverse primigeniture.

    He then aserted to tie his nonscholarly aproach to his dismal and diabolical diatribe to the next part of the title of his goo i.e “And what will it take for this dysfunctional family etc+ that JESUS CAN NOT RETURN TO EARTH EXCEPT THE ARABS AND JEWS UNITE.

    Having had his junk debunked using the same Scriptures that he sought to explain, he has been unable to defend his primary thesis; and so he ends up like all false or errant Bible teachers just as Peter opines in 2 Peter 2

    wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest;

    For when they speak great swelling words of vanity,

    The man is carrying on like Rambling Rose and wukking up like a batsman who cant handle good fast bowling.

    HE HAS BEEN UNABLE TO PROVE HIS POINT
    HE HAS BEEN UNABLE TO STAY ON POINT

    And as hard as he tries he cant get the herd and the gallery to whom he is playing to back him.

    Wont you folk help him out? Mind you the blind will be following the blind and like him you will not only be wallowing in the mire of Biblical illiteracy but deeper in the murky waters of ignorance than BPP in the Gulf.

    Come please add to my entertainment today. Rescue Blackett the Bar Raiser as he waffles.

    He might have a PhD and talk the Muslim Professors in the UK but he cant defend his thesis. His Bible knowledge is lacking One suspects that he comes to BU seeking help and material to plagiarize.


  33. @BU Fundamentalist’s
    on the online matrix
    Who is the one?

    Donovan D Who is the one

    I Roy – Who is the one and Version

    Neo
    He also tells Neo about The One, a human with the power to manipulate The Matrix, who has been foretold to end the war between humans and machines, …


  34. BEWARE WHEN MEN WILL SPEAK WELL OF YOU…

    “How terrible it will be for you when everyone says nice things about you, because that’s the way their ancestors used to treat the “FALSE” prophets!” (Luke 6:26)…

    You have heard that it hath been said, that you should love your neighbor, and hate your enemy…

    But I say to you, “LOVE* your enemies”…

    “Pray for them that persecute you…that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven, for he makes the sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

    “For if you love them which love you, what reward have you?”

    “Do not even the tax-men do the same?”

    “And if you salute your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive from, what gain have you? For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.”

    “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the Most High: for He is kind to the unthankful and to the evil alike. Be merciful, as your Father also is merciful…”

    “Take heed that you do not do your good works before men, to be seen of them, otherwise you have no reward of your Father which is in heaven…”

    The words of JESUS* many would do well to live by – but their PHARISAIC* hearts are full of callouses and they can’t discern between what is right or wrong…

    Like physical and mental illness – they are sick in spirit and need the real balm of Gilead to soothe their souls…

    THIS BLOG THREAD AGAIN SHOWS THAT “RELIGION” IS NOT “SALVATION”…

    There are many who can hang [2] words together but their hearts are FULL* of EVIL* pride, maliciousness, surmising and a spirit of wanton assassination…

    They have forgotten that THE CRUSADES* could never have been won by the sword…

    Jesus won through “LOVE”…

    Yet we pick unnecessary fights amongst ourselves when we have a real “ENEMY” to wage war against!!!

    But that is the subtlety and subterfuge “OUR ENEMY” has seduced us into doing…

    Many of us are “WRONG & STRONG” – because winning is more important than being “HUMBLE” and to win means hitting below the belt and fighting “NASTY” if that’s what it takes…

    Surely “PRIDE” comes before a “FALL”…

    When King David sinned with Bathsheba, (screwing another man’s wife) and then committing willful manslaughter to camouflage his dastardly deeds…

    By the time God had sent the prophet Nathan to confront the King – his approach was peppered with “TACT”, “WISDOM” and “DIPLOMACY” worthy of a motion picture…

    By the time Nathan the prophet got through with DAVID* he had already condemned himself…

    This is God’s method!!!

    Man’s method is all to self-evident….

    Amongst the “FALLOUT” from DAVID’s wrongful actions – the man of God said, was the fact the “heathen were blaspheming the Lord.” (II Samuel 12:14)…

    That mattered big-time to the Lord…

    Any reason that Christians give the “pagans” chance to look down their noses at God, we will have to answer for…

    The difference between reputation and character is that the latter is what you really are deep down on the inside…

    Reputation is what people think you are…

    If I have to choose, I go for character every time because it will determine my standing before God even if at times I am at ODDS* with other folks!!!

    Reputation, image and the facade of the exterior is important. That cannot be denied because we live in a media driven, media obsessed world where we are told that – “IMAGE IS EVERYTHING”!!!

    However, public and overt displays of image are usually fragile, flaky, forlorn creatures which seldom hold up when the going gets tough…

    What you do not want to do is to stoop to the level of the slanderers…

    JESUS* didn’t!!!

    In so doing we sacrifice CHARACTER* for the sake of reputation – compromise practical godliness for the sake of “PUBLIC IMAGE” and frankly, the price we have to pay becomes far higher than anyone is truly willing to pay…

    On that NOTE –

    A BLESSED SABBATH TO THE “TRUE JEWS” AMONGST US…


  35. A PARTING HISTORICAL SHOT ACROSS THE STAR-BOARD BOW….

    Moses could not have been a “JEW” because he was from the tribe of LEVI*** making him a Levite
    (Num.26:59)…

    The word/name “JEW” is not a Hebrew word, it’s an English construct so many other thing…

    There is no letter “J” or “J” equivalent in the Hebrew language…

    As a matter of fact, the letter “J” is one of the last letters to be added to the English alphabet…

    It was created in the 1600’s in France, so there was not a letter “J” in existence during Biblical times…

    Neither can the word “SEMITE” be found in the bible ALTHOUGH WE USE IT OUT OF CONTEXT!!!.

    The Biblical Israelites were Hebrews descendants from Shem – (Noah’s son)….


  36. @TMB: “The word/name “JEW” is not a Hebrew word, it’s an English construct so many other thing…

    If I may please suggest a book to you Mr. Blackett et al: “The Surgeon of Crowthorne” also published as “The Professor and the Madman” by Simon Winchester.

    It documents the creation of the Oxford English Dictionary, and the efforts of two rather intense men.

    Well worth the time spent reading.

    And religion isn’t at all involved.

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Blackett
    You are talking nonsense
    You started a thread on Isaiah 60:6&7 and came on BU forgetting that there are folk here that really know the Word and can divide it. It is you that trying to win a debatre man.

    I just explaining the Scripture and listening to you quote books about post modernism in the attempt to sound intellectual, and play to the gallery man. Since your initial salvo you have neen helpless and hopelessly out of your league.

    By what meaure do yoyu decide that I am wrong and strong, forreproducing texts straight from the Bible that have nothing to do with the church.

    Stop coming from the Tank Tops and Tank’s memoires and etc and show us where the NT teaches that the scriptures aout the millennium refers to the Church man. Stick to the point man. Bowl at the stumps man.

    For a so called intelectual and author and article writer and bar raiser you are found wanting in a little chat with an untalented failure and 3/10 teacher man?

  38. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Mr Blackett
    You have me very confused.

    You began the discussion by saying that

    In the book of Isaiah 60: 6, 7 the prophet says:
    “The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah: all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense: and they shall forth the praises of the Lord.. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance upon mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.”

    Then you said “To first of all understand these two verses, we must first be able to explain and understand what or who is Midian, Ephah, Sheba, Kedar and Nebaioth based on Biblical history.”

    Do we really need to find out all the information you posted to understand that people from somewhere will bring gold and incense and praise the Lord? Is that not what the text clearly says?

    Having pointed out that the Bible teaches in Genesis 25 that Abraham had 3 lines and that the persons named in Isaiah 60 are offspring of Abraham’s other sons, is it not a logical conclusion that the passage you chose as the spring board for your thesis then suggests by your correct interpretation of Genesis 25 that the two other lines of Abraham (i.e the Arabs) will be bringing gold and incense to offer to the King in the Millenium who is none other than the SEED of Abraham descended from Isaac.

    Tell me if I understand incorrectly. If you explain how, oh great raiser of the bar!
    Can you tell the readers of the thread how “It is important to note that Abraham’s [3] lines of descendants are pivotal to the plan of salvation?”

    Can you tell the readers of the thread how it is that “we must conclude that the Abrahamic promised blessings also included all of his posterity” when Galatians 3 clearly tells us that there is only ONE SEED.

    How is it that you got Genesis 25 right and cant get Galatians and Romans right too Sir?

    How is it that you can correctly opine that “What was distinctive about Isaac’s line or future genealogy would be that God choose this line to bring Messiah Yeshua into the world, but that you cant see that it is this same Yeshua who will be worshipped in Isaiah 60 by the other descendents of Abraham who you ably identified for us from Genesis 25 .
    How is it that you can correctly opine that “this line would be interspersed and intermarried over the next 2000 years right up to the coming of Mary who was to be the one who would bear the Holy Child Jesus” but that you want to fool the readers of BU that Abraham’s first wife was Hagar who bore him Ishmael.

    Ah beg ya man tell me where I gone wrong above man. Help me to be a bar raiser like you and not just an untalented 3/1o teacher.

  39. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Mr Blackett

    How is it that you wander about and can not return to, or defend your main points in your ‘award” winning thesis Sir?

    There are a lot of folk who want you to teach us how “These lines are crucial to our understanding of Bible prophecy and how God is working out the plan of salvation through Abraham’s seed.” We already understand that the other two lines will come with their camels and bring gold and incense to Isaacs offspring in the Millenium.

    You opine that folk display “ignorance of allowing the other [2] lines of Abraham to exist in virtual obscurity without paying the necessary attention to the part that they play in the prophetic scheme of things: as if ardent Bible studying Christians have not read Joshua Judges Ruth and 1& 2 Samuel 1 &2 Kings & 1 &2 Chronicles or if they have not read the specific prophecies against ALL of these lines including EDOM and MOAB & AMMON.

    Re “The is the reason why God is now allowing the eyes of those who are seeking revelation, light and present truth from the Word of God to bring this knowledge to the forefront of the minds of men.”

    So you mean that God is causing that the relevant prophetic scriptures about the final regathering of Israel as predicted in several of the 16 prophetic books inter alia, that people have not read are now being read? People enough want to find out how Israel will get out of the fracas that they are in right now, man

    People enough learning that God will win Israel’s worse battle at Armageddon Blackie.

    People enough watching Lindsay and Hagee and Van Impe and others ALL OVER THE WORLD on their tv’s!

    People enough want to know where you get this information from to the effect that “Jesus Christ cannot return to earth until there is unity amongst the children of Abraham based on the covenant God made with him.”

    So you mean Jesus not coming back then?

    Did you get that info first hand from the Lord in the Arabian dessert like the Apostle Paul? Cause it not in the Bible.

    You say “In Isaiah 60: 7, the 2nd son of Ishmael – Kedar came first and then Nebaioth the firstborn came second according to word from the prophet. Why is this?”

    Don’t matter who come first or last They BOTH MUST COME AND BOW THE KNEE AND WORSHIP JESUS THE JEW.

    You harp about people not knowing that there were three lines. Yet you pontificate that “It is important to note that the [3] lines of Abraham actually became [2]. Sarah’s line through Isaac became the [12] tribes of Israel and the children of Hagar & Keturah became the people of the EAST as they dwelt together… This is a very important distinction! Man you don’t know if you coming or you going. You have certainly raised the bar.


  40. @TMB

    You say that the letter J was non existence in bibical times

    Question: How do we account for the names in the bible that start with the letter J.eg. Joseph John. and others.

  41. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    They used Y or I

    Sign on the Cross in Latin

    Id est Iusus rex Iudaerorum

    This is Jesus the king of the Jews

  42. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Latin for gate ianua from which we get the English words janitor janitorial etc

    Latin for judge iudex, iudicis from which we get the English words judge judicial judiciary etc


  43. @ ac

    “Question: How do we account for the names in the bible that start with the letter J.eg. Joseph John. and others…”

    In the days of Jesus, 2000 years ago what language was spoken?

    As far back as the “dynasty” of the kings of Israel – what was the spoken language then?

    With the discovery of the writings of the DEAD SEA SCROLLS* and the Bedouin finds in the CAVES OF QUMRAN* – what language was the text in?

    Enlightenment translations of the Bible from Latin & Greek originated from what original language?

    Readily provided answers to questions does not always allow for proper investigation – it is something needful to dig for your own answers understanding what Paul said that “every workman must be able to divide the word of truth”…

    The Bereans went home and DAILY* searched the Scriptures to see if the thing which PAUL & SILAS were saying were the “TRUTH”… (Acts 17:11)…

    So it is incumbent on all of us!!!

    However in the light of your question:-

    Jacob – the Anglicized form of “Yaakov”. From the Hebrew, meaning “held by the heel, supplanted, or protected.” The 3rd of the 3 Patriarchs and the father of the [12] sons who were founders o the tribes of Israel. The book of Genesis (32:28)..

    Jeremiah – from the Hebrew (Yirmeyahu), meaning “God will loosen (the bonds)” or “God will uplift.” Jeremiah is one of the [6] Hebrew Prophets whose name is mentioned as a personal name in the Talmud. He belonged to a family of Priests living near Jerusalem, and began to prophesy in 625 B.C.E…

    Jesse – from the Hebrew, meaning “wealthy” or gift.” (Yishai) is the exact Hebrew form of his name…

    John – the Anglicized form of his Hebrew name (Yochanan)…

    Jonah – from the Hebrew, meaning “dove.” (Yona) is the exact Hebrew form of his name…

    Jonathan from the Hebrew, meaning “God has given” or “gift of God.” The exact Hebrew form of his name is (Yehonatan)…

    Joseph – from the Hebrew, meaning “He (God) will add or increase.” (Yosef) is the exact Hebrew form and Yusuf in the Arabic…

    Joshua – from the Hebrew (Yehoshua ) meaning “the Lord is my salvation.” In the post-Biblical period Joshua was one of the most commonly used Biblical names…

    Judah – from the Hebrew, meaning “praise.” An Anglicized form of the Hebrew (Yehuda)…


  44. JESUS CAME TO DIE FOR MANKIND!!! PERIOD!!! NOT FOR THE JEWS – BUT THE WHOLE OF MANKIND FROM ADAM TO THE END OF THIS CREATION!!! No wonder there is so much confusion amongst jewery and so-called christians!!!


  45. Israel and Gentiles Contrasted.

    Terence is hell-bent on inciting hatred for the Jewish people, and of course, in his terribly convoluted, entirely twisted, grossly erroneous hermeneutics, as SDA so evidently do in relation to Israel’s absolutely assured restoration to their *Unconditional* Irrevocable, everlasting possession of the LAND, as repeatedly, and emphatically stated in the Old Testament, literally CONFIRMED in 1948, AND miraculously kept from annihilation as the Arab countries attempted in 1948-49, and again in 1967, to DESTROY her, BUT, they simply can’t, as Almighty God, said they WILL NEVER again be uprooted, once He gathered THEM back to their ancient homeland.

    Let us hear again from Professor Walvoord on the distinction between Israel and Gentiles AFTER Pentecost.

    “It should be obvious to anyone even a casual study of the subject that the term *Israel* and *Gentiles* continue to be used AFTER the institution of the church at Pentecost, and the terms are MUTALLY exclusive. Both Gentiles and Israelites continued to exist after the church began, and while some of each came into the church, the Gentiles and Israelites continued as such. Israel as a ‘nation’ IS addressed again and again, AFTER the institution of the church. (Acts 3:12; 4;*, 10; 5:21, 31, 35; 21:28, etc.). A notable instance is Paul’s prayer for Israel that they might be saved (Rom 10:1), obviously a reference to Israel outside the church.”

    “The term ‘Jew” also continues in the New Testament AFTER the beginning of the church. In 1 Corinthians 10:32, it is specifically mentioned. “Give no occasion of stumbling, either to the JEWS, or to Greeks, (Gentiles) or to the church of God.” Here is a clear threefold division of humanity into (1) Jews, (2) Gentiles, (3) church of God.”

    Israel’s continued privileges.

    “The Apostle Paul calls attention to Israel’s UNIQUE place and privilege constantly in his espistles. He declares that their peculiar promises include the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, the promises, the fathers, and the privilege of being the people of whom Christ should come (Rom. 9:4-5).”

    “Now, it is obvious that Paul is referring to Israel ‘in unbelief’ when he refers to those who have these privileges, for he declares: “For I could wish that I myself were anathema from Christ for my brethren’s sake, my kinsmen according to the flesh; who are Israelites…” ( Rom 9: 3-4). He declares that even in unbelief “are Israelites,” and relates to them ALL the peculiar privileges of Israel. It is evident that the institution of the church DID NOT rob Israel in the flesh of its peculiar place of privilege before God.”

    Gentiles continue to be exculded from Israel’s privileges.

    “The declaration of Romans 9:3-4 is given added weight by the fact that in Ephesians 2:12 Gentiles are expressly declared to have been EXCLUDED from the promises given to Israel: “That ye (Gentiles) were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of the promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.” The passage goes on to state their privilege as Christians in the church. It is noteworthy that Paul does NOT say that the Gentiles came into these same Israelitish promises when they were converted; rather he pictures a work of God bringing Jew and Gentile INTO the new order entirely – “one new man” (Eph 2:15). It may be concluded without further argument, that the distinction between natural Israel and Gentiles continued AFTER the institution of the church – Israel IS STILL a genuine Israel, and Gentiles continue to fulfill their part. While this FACT of the Scriptures is more or less admitted even by the amillennialist, the significance is not adequately realized. The continuance of Israel and Gentiles as such is a strong argument against either one being dispossed of their own place. Israel IS NOT reduced to the bankruptcy of the Gentiles to become “strangers from the covenants of promises.” (Eph. 2:12), and the distinction between the two groups is maintained on the same sharp lines as before the church was instituted.”

    “If natural Israel continues as an entity APART from the church, with its own program and destiny, it becomes at once an interesting and vital argument against the TRANSFER of Israel’s promises to the church, or their loss by any such means. Amillenarians are forced to a position which by its nature is untenable. They must admit the existence of natural Israel APART from the church because IT IS too EVIDENT that this is a FACT of Scripture and history.” (A Basic Text in Premillennial Theology, The Millennial Kingdom, pp.164-166) emphasis added.

    Again, this is just scratching the surface of this amazing subject, which has been so maligned by the SDA et al , who hold to the entirely erroneous position of amillennialism, which HAS NO Scriptural NOR historical position to stand on.


  46. THE MOST INEXHAUSTIBLE STUDY RESOURCE ON THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN…

    IS THIS HATRED OR IS THIS FACTUAL?

    YOU DECIDE!!!

    http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Andrew.Carrington.Hitchcock/Synagogue.of.Satan/0740-1818.htm


  47. Jack Bernstein publishes (in 1985) his book, “The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel,” which contains the following statement under the heading, “A Challenge”…

    “I am well aware of the tactics of you, my Zionist brethren, use to quiet anyone who attempts to expose any of your subversive acts.

    If the person is a Gentile, you cry, “You’re anti-Semitic,” which is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide your actions.

    But, if a Jew is the person doing the exposing, you resort to other tactics.

    First, you ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

    If the information starts reaching too many people, you ridicule the information and the persons giving the information.

    If that doesn’t work, your next step is character assassination. If the author or speaker hasn’t been involved in sufficient scandal you are adept at fabricating scandal against the person or persons.

    If none of these are effective, you are known to resort to physical attacks.

    But, NEVER do you try to prove the information wrong.”

    Jack Bernstein subsequently offers to debate the Anti-Defamation League on live television, the ADL decline, and instead Bernstein ends up being “ASSASSINATED” by the Mossad. (cf. Andrew Carrington-Hitchcock [THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN] )…

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    What I find most amusing Mr Blackett, the celebrated PhD, schoar, author, article writer and raiser of the bar on BU came here started a thread purporting to teach us from the Bible about the sons od Abraham — ALL THREE LINES.

    He got debunked. He has engaged in all types of distractions, distortions, playing to the gallery trying to incite hatred for the Jews (more Jews) BUT EVERYTIME A TRUE THEOLOGIAN COMES UP WITH FACTS AND SOUND BIBLE EXEGESIS HE CAN NOT BRING ANY SCRIPTURE TO SUIPPORT ANY ISSUE HE RAISES.

    Try harder Blackie ma boy

    distractions, distortions, denigration and division.
    Low down Hood has a bidigester that you can talk into you know. You can convert your bovine excrement to saleable methane gas.

    THE SCRIPTURES CLEARLY TEACH THAT THE PROMISES THAT RELATE TO THE CHURCH ARE NOT THE SAME AS THOSE THAT RELATE TO ISRAEL

    None of your moronic mouthings or distractions, distortions, denigration and division. will change that fact. SO RANT ON FRIEND. We enjouy how you wuk up when faced with good accurate fast bowling.

    RAISE THE BAR ONCE MORE MAN RAISE THE BAR LOL

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading