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Submitted by Terence Blackett

One of the greatest historical deceptions of all times is the refusal of mainstream Christianity as well as secular society to accept and advocate the original Black pre-eminence and presence in the Bible. This historical seismic rift created a fabrication of diabolical proportions which has ebbed and flowed for the last 4000 years right up to our present time.

Jesusโ€™ First Advent came at a critical time when the final 2000 year epoch of human history was to begin the process of bringing home the lost sons and daughters of Israel back into a harmonious relationship with their God (Yah) – that they had long forgotten and had rebelled against for centuries. This process would eventually culminate with the sealing of 144,000 โ€“ 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes who will not see death, but will be translated at the end of human history โ€“ when Jesus will appear the second time in the eastern sky with over a trillion angels enshrouded with majesty that no eye has ever beheld.

Meantime, the house of God remains in a pile of rubble. The walls broken down. No agreement to be found. The sanctuary defiled. The priests and prophets lie โ€“ preaching and teaching to their own means and the followers seem to like it so. While the vast throng of Godโ€™s people are living in deception, apathy and disbelief because godliness and righteousness is enshrouded (wrapped up) in fickle, baseless religiosity with no real knowledge of God in the land.

In the Christian world, 11 oโ€™clock on Sunday morning is still the most segregated time of the week. The division within the church world is split down the middle between the Black church and the White church. The sad reality is that the division is not based on issues that are fundamentally theological in nature but rather on a lack of acceptance of the historical connotations and the legacy of a supremacist exegetical form of Christianity that was unleashed on Blacks in an attempt to scientifically control and manipulate a nation of people into a position of subservience and socioeconomic control. This divide, conquer and rule principle has even dulled the appetites of many who merely see Christianity as a tool the White man has used as a sabre of oppression to subjugate and force control of the minds of Black folks โ€“ a successful form of intrigue which still bears damnable fruit today.

This vicious lie took on dimensions long before the evolution of Christian religious modernity. The modern Ashkenazim Jew โ€“ PALESKIN converts (as far as 1100 years ago) a people (from the cold tundra-lands of Western/Eastern Europe) worked feverishly to assimilate and control all the nations of world (as far back as the Crusades) and to finally say they were whole again (with the formation of the state of Israel in 1948) โ€“ but that has been a colossal deception of gargantuan proportions swallowed by well-meaning Christians (both Black and White alike) and held up as a totem pole to be revered and worshipped like Mosesโ€™ serpent which was held up in the wilderness. Yet the 10 Tribes of millions of true Jewish/Israelite peoples are still very much scattered at large in every nook and cranny of earth (people particularly of Black ethnic origins) covering the landscape of earth โ€“ many still living under the weight of servitude and oppression.

Jesus had warned that upon โ€œthis Rockโ€ He would build His Church (many still believe it is the Catholic Church) โ€“ who through Satanโ€™s insidious work for thousands of years has built a counterfeit, corrupt, subversive monolith which tries to resemble the real thing and would fool the world into accepting the phony for the authentic. Moses was warned in Exodus 20: 25 that โ€œif thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.โ€ Every since then man has sought to carve out their own altar of stone in the hope that it would be acceptable to God โ€“ not realising that God wonโ€™t accept anything other than the genuine or what He has asked for.

Samuel L. Williams, former pastor of the 650-member Friendship Baptist Church and former chairman of Atlanta’s Human Relations Committee who was also academic dean at Morehouse College in Atlanta said – “White America would rather see this nation destroyed than give up white racism. The worst institution in America today is the white church. It has more hypocrisy per square inch than any other. And no impression I have received in the past five years has made any difference.”

C. Eric Lincoln defines in his book โ€œThe Black Church in the African American Experienceโ€ (Durham Duke University Press, 1990) – how โ€œthe Black Churchโ€ in America is seen as the independent, historic, and completely black-controlled denominations founded during slavery. Although there have been African-American believers in denominations governed by white Americans – the Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, and Lutheran churches, for instance – Lincolnโ€™s definition includes 7 major historic Black denominations: the African Methodist Episcopal (A.M.E.) Church; the African Methodist Episcopal Zion (A.M.E.Z.) Church; the Christian Methodist Episcopal (C.M.E.) Church; the National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Incorporated (N.B.C.); the National Baptist Convention of America, Unincorporated (N.B.C.A.); the Progressive National Baptist Convention (P.N.B.C.); and the Church of God in Christ (C.O.G.I.C.).

I however believe that as was aforementioned in my opening remarks on this issue that writers, theologians and academics are still blind-sided as to the part that ethnicity played in the Holy Scriptures from its inception โ€“ given that “Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married, for he had married an Ethiopian woman.” God then struck Miriam with leprosy. Why? Consider this possibility. In Godโ€™s anger at Miriam, (Mosesโ€™ sister), God says in effect, “how would you like to be pale-skinned Miriam? Then, Iโ€™ll make you pale-skinned.” So we read, “When the cloud removed from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, like snow” (Num. 12:10). The question we must all ask โ€“ โ€œHow does God view color?โ€ Also, in determining any religious orthodoxy, what part does race, gender or social creed play in its makeup?

Racism in any form is still a difficult โ€œrealityโ€ to define far less comprehend given the fact that we are all potentially โ€“ โ€˜human beingsโ€™. In the book of the Acts of the Apostles, God convicted Peter of his religious racism in a vision and told him to accept the Gentiles as brothers in Christ. โ€œPeter opened his mouth and said: โ€œTruly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.โ€ (Acts.10: 34-35). Paul also wrote that โ€œThere is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.โ€ (Galatians 3:28). God made us and He made the color of our skins, and He saw that His work was good.

Even outside of mainstream Christianity, denominations like the Mormon church have long held that a visible code of religious bias and bigotry towards people of color even though the Bible reveals that Abraham married an Egyptian; Joseph, the son of Jacob (later called Israel) married an Egyptian woman Asenath and bore Ephraim and Manasseh; Moses married โ€œan Ethiopian womanโ€; and most importantly Judah married a Canaanite (BLACK) woman that Jesus Himself is a direct descendant of. So for me what beggars belief is – how can Mormons say that Hamites couldnโ€™t have the priesthood when the Israelites themselves were at least (for the sake of anthropological argument sake) ONE-THIRD Hamitic?

In the closing phases of a post-Apartheid South Africa, it was interesting to see the Dutch Reformed Church offer a public apology for the devilish curse of religious racism towards the oppressed majority โ€“ words that still echo some 20 years later but where little has really been done to heal an age-old rift between two altars of stones where the sacrifices of religious ceremony is still being offered to appease a God who wants nothing more than for all men to come into the unity of the faith.

I close with those famous words offered to the peoples of South Africa but words echoed down through the hallowed hallways of 400 years of separation, segregation and ethnic sanction of a race of people who continue to still be maligned because of the color of their skin: – ”We confess with humility and sorrow the participation of our church in the introduction and legitimation of the ideology of apartheid and the subsequent suffering of people..”

In conclusion, let me also echo the words of Jesus as they came forth from the mouth of Abraham Lincoln on June 16, 1858, where more than 1,000 Republican delegates met in the Springfield, Illinois, statehouse for the Republican State Convention.

At 5 p.m. they chose Abraham Lincoln as their candidate for the U.S. Senate, running against Democrat Stephen A. Douglas. At 8 p.m. Lincoln delivered his address to his Republican colleagues in the Hall of Representatives. The title of his speech came from a sentence in the speech’s introduction, “A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand,” which paraphrases a statement by Jesus in Matthew 12:25.

Lincoln’s friends believed the speech was too radical for the occasion. His law partner, William H. Herndon, thought that Lincoln was morally courageous but politically incorrect and possibly suicidal. Herndon said Lincoln told him he was looking for a universally known figure of speech that would rouse people to the peril of the times.

The speech began:

โ€œMr. President and Gentlemen of the Convention.

If we could first know where we are, and whither we are tending, we could then better judge what to do, and how to do it. We are now far into the fifth year, since a policy was initiated, with the avowed object, and confident promise, of putting an end to slavery agitation. Under the operation of that policy, that agitation has not only, not ceased, but has constantly augmented. In my opinion, it will not cease, until a crisis shall have been reached, and passed. โ€˜A house divided against itself cannot stand.โ€™ I believe this government cannot endure; permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved – I do not expect the house to fall – but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of slavery, will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become alike lawful in all the States, old as well as new – North as well as South. Have we no tendency to the latter condition?

The question the modern Church must now ask โ€“ can we ill-afford another hundred years of the same old divisions or isnโ€™t time to heal the rift and have one altar upon which we offer our sacrifices?


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365 responses to “Two Altars Of Stone:- The Black Church Versus The White Church – A House Divided Against Itself”


  1. Techie I thought that……as usual….I have answered all your questions man.

    Be good man.


  2. My comments were posted before your reply…my apology.

    Thanks for the answers GP.


  3. Techie
    Please understand that I dont mind you asking questions for clarification or even to keep the men honest or accurate or on point etc but I think you would evince greater maturity by attacking the relevance, or acuracy or truth of the message per se rather than the messenger.

    I hope you can find a measure of sense in my point.

    This thread will soon be over anyway, because the notion that would tend to inflmame the passions of the emotional ranters has been debunked, because the black vs white church paradigm is irrelevant in the contemporary church in Barbados

    And the “whites” cant be blamed because the “blacks” are the main atendees at the two mega churches.


  4. @Georgie Porgie (probably not his real name): “…but I think you would evince greater maturity by attacking the relevance, or acuracy or truth of the message per se rather than the messenger.

    But you do of course, however, recognize that the message is inseparable from the messenger?

    Don’t you Dr. Porgie?


  5. And here is what our friends from Salt Lake City, Black Rock , Rendezvous and Church Hill, have to say
    Nephi 1 Chapter 11 Verse 13
    And it came to pass that I looked and behold the great city of Jerusalem,and also other cities.
    And I beheld the city of Nazareth and in the city of Nazereth,I beheld a virgin,and she was exceedingly fair and white.


  6. @GP…

    What I think you fail to understand about me is that unlike you or Zoe, I am not, at this point, affiliated to any denominations, belong to any particular church group or am a ‘Christian” in the true sense of the word.
    I am however, seemingly at the cross roads (it is hard to shake off the early childhood days) and just seeking the truth, whatever it may be, hence most of my questions to you.
    Now, look at it from (if possible) a non believer’s point of view, one who seeks the truth.
    You always say listen to the message, not the messenger but as CH opines, it is very hard in reality to separate the two.
    If I gave you clean water in a dirty glass, would you drink it? Would you eat from a dirty plate?
    My problem with people like Zoe is that even though his words may be true, the manner in which he brings across his message is in poor taste and from someone in his claimed position, he should or ought to know better (Geez, sounding like D now). That is why my questions are directed to you, as I find you to be a lot more humble and modest.
    I see Zoe, however true his beliefs are, as a fanatic (this is by no way derogatory, look it up) in the way he wants to get his message across. Even D and yourself at times have to admonish him about his attitude. Do you honestly think that your students would learn well, if you had a lousy attitude every time you came to class?
    They are many like me who would love to know the truth but with the current state of affairs surrounding religion and church…it is hard and people like Zoe don’t make it any easier.
    Hope this explains some.


  7. @ Ten 4 // January 25, 2010 at 3:04 PM

    And here is what our friends from Salt Lake City, Black Rock , Rendezvous and Church Hill, have to say
    ……………………………………..
    So why u lef out the one at 6+ Roads. U din know bout dah one??

    Dem like dem growing bigger & bigger yuh!!


  8. Techie
    Man I understand you well ya know. โ€ฆ.. and long time too. But what ya want me to do? lol

    Re I am however, seemingly at the cross roads (it is hard to shake off the early childhood days) and just seeking the truth

    I done tell you that A SON WILL NOT STAY IN THE PIG PEN OF THE WORLD BECAUSE HE DOES NOT BELONG THERE. A SON WILL ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE FATHERโ€™S HOUSE . RECALL THE ACCOUNT (note its not a parable) OF THE PRODIGAL SON!

    You are not the only one who has ever been a backslider. Nor are you the only one with doubts and conflicts. Even believers have them. I particularly like the verse of the hymn Just as I am that says โ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ….

    Just as I am though tossed about
    With many a conflict, many a doubt
    Fightings and fears within, without
    Oh Lamb of God I come!

    Some days I wonder too.

    Let me give you an example. Remember I told the forum a few weeks ago about that job I didnt get because I was black. And how they said they would get the Organic Chem man to teach the Biochem?

    I got this note from a friend who is working there today……

    “So far there is no Biochem teacher here, the pharm teacher replaces the organ chem who was not able.
    So the position is still open. I hear somebody is coming by month end from India, but have to see him. I do not see the indian teacher reaching here soon.”

    I wonder why. I have conflicts and doubts too, man just life you. All I can do is keep on trusting.

    Being affiliated to any denomination or belonging to any particular church group is not the issue. The important thing is your personal relationship with God. And whereas a denomination or a any particular church group or a BU poster might detract, I am urging you not to let any such thing get between you and your personal relationship with God.

    The devil can use both the good or the bad or the indifferent to lead you down the wrong path. Forget Zoe and others like Zoe if you find him a hindrance. Forget me too, if you find me a hindrance. LOL I serious man.

    Keep the man ting the main ting man . Stick to the essentials and leff out de incidentals.

    a fanatic is a fan that live in an attic aint that so? LOL Just joking

    Be good man. Keep cool


  9. @BU FAMILY

    Isn’t it interesting that there are “elements” on this forum (BLOG) who believe I have some precocious agenda – some believe [political]; others believe [socioeconomic], others believe [religious]; and there is a myriad of contentions, spurious allegations and innuendos floating about in cyberspace…

    I will remain who I am (to some an enigma) but regardless of the critique of my agenda – like any good ‘ole fashion BAJAN* will tell you – “my pot don’t boil up at none y’all”… (THANK GOD)…

    For the record, my firm religious belief is this (and PLEASE TAKE NOTE) –
    “ALL THE CHURCHES OF CHRISTENDOM HAVE ALL APOSTATIZED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER…” That includes the denomination for which I have been apart of for well over 20 years (THE SDA CHURCH)…

    My faith and belief in GOD (YAH) and in YESHUA* is personal, deep and fervent and the prayer of YESHUA* for “ONENESS” in John 17 is still a pipe-dream for the “so-called Church” (which is clearly NOT* the BODY OF CHRIST) …

    All you have to do is read the diatribe and the pungent banter on religious issues on BU* and it is clear why ROK et al shy away from making poignant contributions because it all becomes too much…Men refuse debate with solid truth but rather spew insults (good luck to y’all)…

    Clearly most Bajans (including the so-called intelligentsia) have not learnt how to separate their internal feelings from logical discourse and analysis…

    Some would argue that is perfectly understandable given the fact that “small-minded-island-mentality” remains an entrenched self-fulfilling prophecy pervasive over the many generations and we are all subject to it (unless a decisive effort is made to break the tentacles of it)…

    Examples of it can be seen amongst our so-called “elite” politicians and religious leaders… (So if the “HEAD”) is bad – the body is in trouble…Go figure!!!

    Again, “A HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF”!!!

    So “GUYS” dirty tactics, malevolence and ire is classic of pointing 1 finger at a person and 4 pointing back at yourself… Frankly asinine…

    As for ZOE* – you don’t know me from a hole in the wall even though we have individuals who are common to both of us, including my sister who works for RBS….

    However, you have asked me to be a man of my word by keeping your “IDENTITY” off of BU* and I could expose you (if that would amount to a hill of bean) or if I really care about any of that crap… (PLEASE)…

    Actually, you are no one that is so important to me – for one, I don’t know you and I am not sure I would want to either….As Psalmist David said, we must careful who we allow into our circle…Your spirit has the sting of the adder… You need YESHUA to change you… You have a form of godliness but you produce no fruit of the spirit… )Meekness, gentleness, kindness etc)… Believe me I have been apart of a church where RELIGIOUS PHARISEES* & SADDUCEES exist by the bucket loads… So guys like you all is no surprise!!!

    So let the royal rumble continue….


  10. `That which is awake in those that sleep is a God seeking to realize Itself in Itself’

    The origin of the gods
    Who verily knows and who can declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
    The Gods are later than this world’s production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?

    He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
    Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows it not !?


  11. @ Blackett of WHITE VS BLACK CHURCH fame!

    Its good that your faith and belief in GOD (YAH) and in YESHUA* is personal, deep and fervent .

    Do you think that others have similar faith and belief? Even a rotten sinner like me or Zoe? LOL

    The fact that your โ€œ pot donโ€™t boil up at noneโ€ ah we is of course very pertinent to the thread that YOU started on the WHITE CHURCH vs THE BLACK CHURCH.

    What do you know about the unity that exists in many local churches around the world man Sir?

    If the โ€œso-called Church is clearly NOT* the BODY OF CHRIST, then what is the body of Christ Sir? And what is the church then?

    I note that you are trying to get Rok to join the fray. Donโ€™t beg him to come to your aid man. Refute the issues that we have raised concerning the white church/black church paradigm and tell us that Zoe is lying about Ellen G White. Give us solid truths man, not rhethoric.

    Re Clearly most Bajans (including the so-called intelligentsia) have not learnt how to separate their internal feelings from logical discourse and analysisโ€ฆ

    So teach us man. Teach us with relevance to the white church and the black church in Bim. ROTFLMAO

    Re โ€œSome would argue that is perfectly understandable given the fact that โ€œsmall-minded-island-mentalityโ€ remains an entrenched self-fulfilling prophecy pervasive over the many generations and we are all subject to it (unless a decisive effort is made to break the tentacles of it)โ€ฆ

    Man you can talk to sweet doh neh? ROTFLMAO

    Re โ€œSo โ€œGUYSโ€ dirty tactics, malevolence and ire is classic of pointing 1 finger at a person and 4 pointing back at yourselfโ€ฆ Frankly asinineโ€ฆโ€

    Arent you spitting up in the air and the spittle falling back down in your face Sir? Ah lie?

    Are you not guilty of the same sins you accuse of us Sir? You are off course coznizant of the fact that the master said in John 8 โ€œ LET HIM THAT IS WITHOUT SINโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ.โ€ Ah lie?

    If I were you I would lash out at Zoe too. After all he has exposed your agenda and your Ellen G was she WHITE OR BLACK the plagiarist! Ah lie? ROTFLMAO

    So Zoe needs Jesus to change him. Brilliant! You have of curse heard of the concepts of POSITIONAL sanctification PRACTICAL sanctification and PERFECT sanctification. And you do know that no believer will be perfect until Christ returns. So Zoe aint too late.Is he? Ah lie?

    And you have of course mastered the first segment of 1 John which teaches inter alia that even believers have THE OLD SIN NATURE โ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ AND THAT THEY STILL SINโ€ฆโ€ฆ..AND THAT GOD HAS MADE PROVISION FOR EVERY ACT OF SIN. Ah lie?

    I dont recall Zoe saying or implying that he was important to you, or that he wanted to join your circle or rhomboid or square. Ah lie? ROTFLMAO

    I can understand that you were part of a church where RELIGIOUS PHARISEES* & SADDUCEES exist by the bucket loads.

    Are there other types of Pharisees and Saducess?
    I was taught that the Pharisees were far, you see. And that the Saducees were sad you see. LOL

    Man we waiting for you so we can enjoy the royal rumble to continue man. Tell us more about the WHITE CHURCH VS THE BLACK CHURCH IN BARBADOS, man. ROTFLMAO

    Man you come in here this evening asking Rok to come help you, and appealing to the Zoe haters. Man you real funny man. ROTFLMAO

    Show us how to debate with solid truth as you have so ably NOT demonstrated in your last post! Truth is I thought that Zoe did just that in his erudite discourse about Ellen G Black & White!—-the plagiarist! ROTFLMAO

    And teach us how not to spew insults as you have done as you emitted more hogwash. Show us how to separate our internal feelings from logical discourse and analysisโ€ฆjust as you did in your last post. ROTFLMAO

    Tell us more about the WHITE CHURCH VS THE BLACK CHURCH IN BARBADOS, man. ROTFLMAO


  12. Source code is computer programs
    it’s a bit like hindu gods input-process-output
    ganesh-buddah-kali

    (1) Input Data
    Repeat
    –(2)Process Data
    –At-End-Of_Data
    —escape Repeat
    –end-end-data
    end-Repeat
    (3) Produce Totals
    End


  13. @Anon 3

    Just counted 15 blogs since the last religious content.

    When the time comes when the BU family believes the time for us to retire is at hand, we will retire; hopefully with dignity.

    Nothing last forever.


  14. David, if you are responding to me, Anon(2), you know the number that comes after one, what you fail to acknowledge is that most of the articles you post that are general and non-religious in nature are, at some point, taken over by these religious freaks. You culd put up an article on how the price of rum gone up and these people would somehow turn it into a religious rant and rave. If you do not care about your readers, fair enough. Just say so and be done with it.


  15. One Away
    [Chorus:]
    Mi an di yutes a tro one away
    Melchesedek way yay
    So if yuh see mi an di yutes dem trodding through the earth
    Wi haffi trod it King Selassie way, yeah yeah
    Trodding this one away, haffi trod it one away
    Dem sen 50, 60, 70 pagan
    Mi slew dem off in space a one day.

    [2:]
    Well read.. you see
    The people inna di west
    Di whole a dem gone crazy
    Love fi big up dem chest yet dem dey inna slavery
    Dem caan nyam nuh food without nuh money
    So foolish is the man
    Eat food in fruitful Zion yet him hungry
    A tell yuh fi
    Cleanse yuh ways, clean up yuh path
    Ghetto yutes nuh badda gaze
    Mi say unno fus fi staat
    Babylon a seek soul an heart
    Dem dun get dem peice and want our half
    Dats why


  16. @BU.David: “When the time comes when the BU family believes the time for us to retire is at hand, we will retire; hopefully with dignity.

    Until that time…

    You might want to take serious responsibility for the energy you’re introducing into the system.

    For what that is worth…


  17. @ Anon 2

    Religious freaks you say?

    Sorry for the fact that BU respect ALL.

    What we have found since starting up BU is to to value how we are all different and the virtue of tolerance.

    In many ways BU is a microcosm of our everyday existence (if you understand what we mean)


  18. @Chris

    We have asked you many times in the past to say PLAINLY what you mean. BU has always been receptive to feedback, while this is so we are also painfully aware we will NEVER be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


  19. @GP , ZOE, TB

    Isn ‘t it funny three of you hashing it out in the public arena.Satan has taken a ringside seat


  20. @BU.David: “We have asked you many times in the past to say PLAINLY what you mean.

    Duhhhh… You allow some things to be said which make no sense…

    Duhhhh… You *encourage* some other things to be said which make no sense…

    Duhhhh… The former is fine and should be encouraged; the latter is stupid and should be discouraged.

    Duhhhhhhhhh…

    Is this form clearer to you?


  21. @Chris

    No

    To think you are someone who always try to be specific when asking others to explain.

    If you are experiencing difficulty in being specific, forget it brother.


  22. My hands was tied
    Silent cries screamed genocide
    When two-thirds of the planet died in the end

    The end justifies the means
    The end is power
    (Power) Power corrupts — absolute power corrupts absolutely
    Young black man, let us begin (2X


  23. Is Ras Kass the last to fall victim for wearin’ no mask at all?
    No gimmicks, just me bein’ me
    But you ain’t bendin’ or offendin’ me
    Cuz anyways Hennessy used to be a better friend to me
    But I had to stop drinkin’ so many pints (Why?)
    ‘Cuz the tendency to forget
    It ain’t baseball, America’s favorite national pastime is white
    supremacy
    Never seen a n@g granted clemency
    My metaphors is meta-five
    My styles go up in your … little boy, you get fucked, like pedophiles
    When it’s all said and done I’ma retire to an island in the Caymans
    Enslavin’ caucasians livin’ off your mama’s life savings


  24. Is Ras Kass the last to fall victim for wearin’ no mask at all?
    No gimmicks, just me bein’ me
    But you ain’t bendin’ or offendin’ me
    Cuz anyways Hennessy used to be a better friend to me
    But I had to stop drinkin’ so many pints (Why?)
    ‘Cuz the tendency to forget
    It ain’t baseball, America’s favorite national pastime is white
    supremacy
    Never seen a n@ granted clemency
    My metaphors is meta-five
    My styles go up in your … little boy, you get f@, like pedophiles
    When it’s all said and done I’ma retire to an island in the Caymans
    Enslavin’ caucasians livin’ off your mama’s life savings


  25. @Chris Hasall
    who are you now?. The blog police.You should start to censor yourself first.


  26. @BU.David…

    To be as clear as I can be…

    You’re claiming to be a viable alternative to the traditional fourth estate.

    Might you not then act accordingly?

    Is *that* clearer to you?


  27. I think there might be a white lead vs black lead church in Barbados.

    It is certainly interesting that in an island with majority blacks, that the mega churches are white lead.

    It couldn’t be that persons want to be in pews rubbing shoulders with person of similar elk, because the black churches have all types as well.

    It is probably as the article might be saying, that we are programmed into believing in a white Jesus, which might not be the case, or it might be the fact that blacks in some cases might believe that that which is white is right.

    This same behaviour permeates to the way we conduct business as well.

    The article mentions that there exist a division in the church amongst blacks and whites, is this denominational? As in blacks tending towards the Pentecostal whereas whites might prefer the Anglican, and Catholic Churches?

    The article certainly set me thinking about the whole notion. Interesting article.


  28. @The Hood. This is the first time that I am hearing the COLDS are in Six Roads.


  29. Exercises in religious gymnastics by folks who are clearly not inspired – especially when the contention is over areas of Biblical doctrine – these issues can be hashed out right there in Barbados where you guys are like pit bulls to a bone…

    There are enough so-called Bible scholars (who have never published a single line of academic literature) and equally there are proponents on Bible hermeneutics and exegesis in BIM* who will haggle with you guys on any subject fancy…

    The BLACK v WHITE issue is as commonplace in Barbados (I am still waiting to see white folks in our local Black church) – as it is throughout the Caribbean v elsewhere in the world where these religious paradigms are still being swept under the carpet… ’cause everyone is in denial…

    I saw with my own eyes a predominately white church in Britain
    lose 90% of its members within a 10 year span where the church is now comprised of Blacks and Asians but also where even amongst Asians where they too have gone to form their own congregation…

    This conditions is pervasive throughout Christendom and it exist even in countries where whites are not in ascendancy… (case in point, South Africa – where many of my colleagues bemoan this sad reality)…

    Charles Gilmer is a national director for Campus Crusade for Christ and he ask the following questions –

    “Is the Bible credible? Isn’t it just a European book that has little to do with our people?”

    “Isn’t Christianity a late arrival in Africa? Isn’t it a foreign religion to Africa and Africans?”

    “Didn’t Christians start, perpetuate and defend American slavery?”

    “What was the attitude of the slaves through all of this? How could our forefathers embrace the religion of their oppressors?”

    “Wasn’t the white church an accomplice to our ongoing oppression and isn’t the black church a pacifying agent in our struggle for freedom?”

    “What happened to our “Old Time Religion”? Why does the African-American church struggle to gain the allegiance of the emerging generation?”

    “What should we do now? How can we honor our history, respond to the present, and build a viable, vibrant future for our people?”

    Instead of face the music – we act like a barrel of crabs….


  30. Bill Maxwell suggest that “Civil rights icon the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. loved to remind his white ministerial colleagues, along with any white policymakers willing to listen, that “eleven o’clock Sunday morning is the most segregated hour” of the week. 11 o’clock is when most Protestant churches open worship services.

    King was showing whites – who considered themselves to be Christians – the sharp conflict between racism and Christian ideals.

    Explaining King’s pronouncement, African-American theologian James Cone wrote: “In the old slavery days, the church preached that slavery was a divine decree, and it used the Bible as the basis of its authority. … Not only did Christianity fail to offer the (Blacks) hope of freedom in the world, but the manner in which Christianity was communicated to him tended to degrade him. The (Black) was taught that his enslavement was due to the fact that he had been cursed by God. … Parts of the Bible were carefully selected to prove that God had intended that the (Black man) should be the servant of the white man…”

    Master and servant, therefore, could not inhabit the same place of worship together.

    Forty years after King’s words, 11 a.m. Sunday remains a time when two Americas – one white, one black – go separate ways. But Bishop Fred Caldwell, pastor of Greenwood Acres Full Gospel Baptist Church in Shreveport, La., decided that King’s words did not have to be destiny, at least not for his traditionally Black congregation.

    USA Today reports that Caldwell has devised a scheme for diversifying his church: He will pay white folks to attend. That is right. Caldwell says he will pay whites $5 per hour to sit in the pews on Sunday and $10 per hour for Thursday service.

    Pay whites to attend?”

    This is how laughable it is….

    Maybe some of the predominate Black churches in Barbados can adopt a similar strategy with the white Bajan folks as well as the white foreigners who live amongst them…

    The question is – where do these so-called folks go to church on Sabbath and Sunday anyway?

    Maybe the Jewish Synagogue!!!

    I guess I am taking the piss now, huh?


  31. Now for those who are calling for some form of academia on the sociology of religion which looks at the tenets of racists as well structural religious divide – here goes….

    Sociologists of religion tend to emphasize the prevalence of order in society and in social organizations.

    They stress the importance of common values as the basis of societal and organizational stability.

    However, the sociology of religion also includes a subordinate strand of theory and research stressing the prevalence of disorder in society and social organizations.

    There is a considerable body of literature on historic conflicts between Protestant groups.

    Studies document late 19th-century and early 20th C. conflicts between “mainline” supporters of the “Social Gospel,” who felt religion should address social concerns such as urban poverty, and “fundamentalists,” who insisted that religion’s focus should be on spiritual matters.

    Studies also record struggles in the 1920s and 1930s between “modernists,” who wanted religion to embrace modern science, and “conservatives,” who stressed the importance of scriptural literalism and religious tradition.

    Finke and Stark (1992) document conflicts between mainline denominations and evangelicals over control of American radio waves in the 1930s and 1940s.

    These tensions persist in present-day “culture wars” between liberal mainline denominations and conservative evangelical groups (Liebman and Wuthnow 1983, Hunter 1983, 1991).

    Religious groups also have locked horns over issues such as religious truth, abortion, sex roles, and church-state relations.

    Religious truth has been at the root of numerous tensions between “mainline” religions and new religious groups, especially ones with cultlike qualities and unconventional religious practices.

    Legal challenges to Mormon theology and polygamous marital practices during the late 19th and early 20th centuries are but one example (O’Dea 1957).

    Racial inequality – from the time of slavery to the present – has fostered racial divisions in denominations and local congregations.

    Race was at the base of 19th-century regional schisms in several Protestant denominations.

    In the 1960s, the gap between Black and white churches grew as Blacks formed new congregations based on “Black theology” and as white churches opposed Black demands for financial reparations for white churches’ complicity in America’s history of slavery and racial segregation (Lincoln and Mamiya 1990).

    The few bright spots – Black churches, and some white churches, took the lead in advocating racial justice in the United States during the civil rights era of the 1950s and 1960s (Morris 1984).

    The Catholic Church, some mainline Protestant denominations, and some evangelicals have taken positions against the increased concentration of wealth and power in America (Davidson et al., 1990).

    Peace churches (e.g., the Brethren) vigorously opposed the arms race and the Vietnam War.

    Evangelical Protestants have opposed the Supreme Court’s ruling against prayer in public schools.

    Catholics and evangelicals have found themselves on the same side of the pro-life movement against abortion.

    These religious standsโ€”both left and right – have precipitated prolonged debates, volatile rallies, political battles, and even violence between opposing forces.


  32. Anonymous

    First thing the word is โ€œILKโ€! not โ€œELKโ€ Forget the nonsense you heard from the radio and tv announcers in Barbados. Its ILK! OK? Elk are a type of deer.

    Questions: How many churches in Barbados are now led by white leaders, besides the two mega churches?

    Does that really constitute a white led vs black led church in Barbados?

    Where is the division in the church in Barbados amongst blacks and whites?

    Lets create such a division. Then we can eliminate the BLP and the DLP, and have just the WP & the BP. What you think?

    It has been long since we have had black leadership in the Anglican church; and longer since the days when there were white priests in the Anglican church like Ulyett, Hazelwood etc,

    I remember well the days in the late 50โ€™s/early 60โ€™s when the following were the priests at St Matthias & St Lawrence where the main tourist areas were at the time (Fredricks, Cayless, Moralee, Jaggard and Layne) , and there was a white guy at Hawthorne- whose name I cant remember.

    Where is the denominational division in the church in Barbados?

    How many white people in Barbados still go to church?

    And donโ€™t they mostly go to the white led PAWI mega churches?

    Catholics in Bim are probably still mainly white since most black Catholics in Bim are either from St Lucia or Dominica or descendants of such.

    How would believing in a white Jesus cause a division in the church into a black church and a white church?

    Do the blacks then believe in a black Jesus? Then we would have the Hopian denomination.

    Yes โ€œthe article certainly set me thinking about the whole notion.โ€ Really interesting article.


  33. Technician,

    Why on earth if you are looking for the truth you would ask someone who believes that he knows, but cannot possibly know. He, like you, can only believe.

    The truth, in religion, is unknowable.


  34. The world is comprised of people with
    different views and schools of thought.
    Everyone has to learn and live together.


  35. Churches are businesses, the Bible is a book of Jewish fairytales and belief in God should not hinge on the Bible. Jesus was a man and by logically deduction cannot at the same time be a God. A God certainly cannot be born or die! Accept that God created the universe and move on!


  36. Chris Rock on Rap music


  37. @ Ten4 // January 25, 2010 at 10:56 PM

    @The Hood. This is the first time that I am hearing the COLDS are in Six Roads.
    ………………………………………..
    Check it out if you wish. The building is now being prepared to begin services. Every Sunday @ 10:00am, all are invited, even you.
    You see it was prophesied some 200 years ago that the B.O.M.will flood the earth eventually, going to every nation, tongue & kindred and this is exactly what is happening even now. No unhallowed hand will be able to stop it as this is the work (& will) of the Lord Jesus. & that’s it, plain & simple. So the sooner the world accepts this the better off we all will be. Membership now stands @13million, almost 14 million woldwide. Unstoppable, my brother, just unstoppable! AH LIE??


  38. Mr Blackett Sir
    May I ask a few questions Sir?

    Re
    Exercises in religious gymnastics by folks who are clearly not inspired โ€“ especially when the contention is over areas of Biblical doctrine โ€“ these issues can be hashed out right there in Barbados where you guys are like pit bulls to a boneโ€ฆ

    1-What are religious gymnastics?
    2- Who decides inspiration, and who are inspired? You? If Zoe or Dictionary had said that all BU would have been over them. Ah lie?

    Re
    There are enough so-called Bible scholars (who have never published a single line of academic literature) and equally there are proponents on Bible hermeneutics and exegesis in BIM* who will haggle with you guys on any subject fancyโ€ฆ

    3- Does the fact that the โ€œso-called Bible scholarsโ€ โ€œhave never published a single line of academic literatureโ€ mean that they WRONGLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH? What about all the teachers in Bim over the ages that โ€œhave never published a single line of academic literatureโ€; are we to dismiss their contribution?
    Have you published a single line of academic literature IN BIBLE OR THEOLOGY, Sir?

    Re The BLACK v WHITE issue is as commonplace in Barbados (I am still waiting to see white folks in our local Black church) โ€“ as it is throughout the Caribbean v elsewhere in the world where these religious paradigms are still being swept under the carpetโ€ฆ โ€™cause everyone is in denialโ€ฆ

    4- Because you have not seen white folks in your local Black church, are you saying that there are NO white folks in ANY local Black church in Barbados. Well the local church groups with which I worshipped in Barbados from 1968 through 1998 ALL had white folks in them. In fact I can take you to one such church where the children of one of my peers has the accent not of Bajan blacks, but of Bajan blacks. What does that tell you about the amount of time those children spend among blacks as against whites?

    Re
    I saw with my own eyes a predominately white church in Britain
    lose 90% of its members within a 10 year span where the church is now comprised of Blacks and Asians but also where even amongst Asians where they too have gone to form their own congregationโ€ฆ
    This conditions is pervasive throughout Christendom and it exist even in countries where whites are not in ascendancyโ€ฆ (case in point, South Africa โ€“ where many of my colleagues bemoan this sad reality)โ€ฆ

    5 So what who cares? Your point is thusโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ..what Sir? That we should do the same in Barbados?

    Much of the rhethoric in the rest of this post has been rehashed over and over here and elsewhere

    You ask โ€ฆโ€Why does the African-American church struggle to gain the allegiance of the emerging generation?โ€

    6- What does that have to do with the church in Barbados?
    7- Does the white church in America also struggle to gain the allegiance of the emerging generation?โ€
    8- Does the church in Barbados and other parts of the world also struggle to gain the allegiance of the emerging generation?โ€

    You write next that Martin Luther King Jr was showing whites โ€“ who considered themselves to be Christians โ€“ the sharp conflict between racism and Christian ideals.

    9- Were these whites Christians or not? How do you become a Christian? Do Christians not sin? When black Christians discriminate against each other because of the different shades of their blackness is this not a demonstration of โ€œthe sharp conflict between racism and Christian idealsโ€ Sir? Ah lie?

    10 Does your description of how Christianity was communicated to Blacks in the USA not a demonstration of POOR THEOLOGY & WRONGLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH, SIR? Ah lie?

    You point out that โ€ฆโ€ Parts of the Bible were carefully selected to prove that God had intended that the (Black man) should be the servant of the white manโ€ฆโ€

    11 Is this not a demonstration of POOR THEOLOGY & WRONGLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH, SIR? Ah lie?
    Was not the division here called essentially and initially by POOR THEOLOGY & WRONGLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH, rather than race, per se SIR Ah lie?

    Pardon me Sir, If I am incorrect Sir. But remember I am only a mere โ€œso-called Bible scholars, who has never published a single line of academic literature.โ€ I am merely aโ€proponent on Bible hermeneutics and exegesis and a haggler.โ€

    Re Master and servant, therefore, could not inhabit the same place of worship together.
    12 Was this necessarily a bad thing? Are church splits always a bad thing? When Paul and Barnabas separated from each other over the issue of John Mark, was this a bad thing?
    13 When the black moron in Shreveport, La., decided that Kingโ€™s words did not have to be destiny, for his traditionally Black congregation and decided to pay whites $5 per hour to sit in the pews on Sunday and $10 per hour for Thursday service, TELL ME WHICH MANDATE OR NT TEACHING was he following?
    His decision is as laughable as your inclusion of it in your post Sir! ROTFLMAO

    I am sure that reasonable sensible Bajans wont adopt such a stupid ploy. Reasonable sensible Bajans understand that Bajan whites want to be by themselves at Conset Bay or Mullins Bay or wherever they gather together. Reasonable sensible Bajans understand that some Bajan blacks donโ€™t want to be around some of their own. Ah lie?

    And no. You are not now taking the piss out of anything Sir. You are just on the defensive from the bouncers that Zoe bowled at you about dear Ellen the plagiarist! LOL ROTFLMAO!

    Blacckett, ma boy. I understand that you DIDNT THINK THAT YOUR POOR FIRST & SECOND SERVICES WOULD BE SMASHED AS THEY WERE.

    I HOPE THAT YOU WILL SOON GET SOME SUPPORT FOR YOUR RACIST GOO BY THOSE WHOSE BLAKNESS CAUSES THEM TO BE EMOTIONAL WITHOUT THINKING.

    I want you to know that there are churches in the USA where blacks and whites mingle quite well. Some of these churches are predominantly BLACK, and some are predominantly WHITE.

    Where the love of God is truly shed abroad in the hearts of men through the Holy Spirit as taught in Romans 5 BOTH WHITE & BLACK BELIEVERS GET ON VERY WELL.


  39. “The Legend of Jesus”
    Was written about a man who lived over 2,000 years ago.
    The official story was released and sanctioned by the ruling roman elite’s a few hundred years after that.


  40. Im sure, it is not by god’s design that half the world is living in abject poverty and starvation and that the industrialisation of developed countries has caused a big pollution and practically depleted all of the worlds natural resources.


  41. Terence Blackett Jan 24, @7:04PM.

    “My next issue and possible thread will be on “THE COMING DESTRUCTION OF MODERN-DAY RELIGION ( that includes Christianity especially)”

    “Nothing as we know it today will be left standing.”

    “The whole world will be forced (ONE WAY OR ANOTHER) into accepting what is coming down the turnpike or face (like the Hebrew boys) the measure injustice of the STATE* (religion).

    It is only when one understands Seventh-day Adventism, and the perverted, unscriptural *teachings* of Ellen G. White, that one CAN discern, SEE through what Terence is DRIVING AT.

    I will give proof of what the SDA church has been brainwashed into accepting, from the voluminous, deeply *plagiarized* and unscriptural writings of Ellen. G. White. Terence, like most Adventist, has swallowed, hook, line, and sinker, the utterly twisted, and convoluted false doctrine of Ellen G.White, which CANNOT stand the test of sound Biblical Hermeneutics, Contextual Analysis, and Linguistic Exegesis, principles, that ARE NOT up for grabs, as TWO competing truth claims CANNOT be both right, the Unchangeable, Unalterable Law of Non Contradiction in Logic, which IS absolute.

    Terence is a nice man, well educated PhD, in his own field, BUT, is way over his head when it comes to Biblical Hermeneutics and Exegesis on these matters.

    “There are enough so-called Bible scholars (who have never published a single line of academic literature) and equally there are proponents on Bible hermeneutics and exegesis in BIM* who will haggle with you guys on any subject fancy…”

    Terence, there IS so much *hogwash* published by s0-called intellectuals in academic literature, writing at that level does NOT validate the utter nonsense these idiots write, and YOU know that.

    Degrees DO NOT validate what one writes, it IS what one writes that VALIDATES their qualifications, there IS so much *sterile* intellectualism, and paralyzed *orthodoxy* out there in academia, it makes one SICK!!!

    “Your spirit has the sting of an adder- You need YESHUA to change you…you have a form of godliness, but no fruit of the spirit…(meekness, gentleness, kindness etc)…”

    Terence, man, you just don’t understand, you DON’T know me, nor the gentle, kind, tender, loving, kind man that I am, there IS a place for STINGING REBUTE, as emphatically seen and witnessed by Jesus, Himself, and the most Gifted, Anointed Apostle of them all, who the Lord used to pen the most profound theological discourses ever divinely recorded in the Bible, non other than Paul, who BTW, penned Galatians 5:22, the FRUIT of the Spirit.

    BUT, there was a place and time for a STINGING REBUKE, by the same Anointed Apostle, here him to the Juadiazing Galatians:

    “O FOOLISH Galatians, who hath BEWITCHED you, that ye should NOT obey the TRUTH, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath evidently set forth, crucified among you?

    “This only would I learn of YOU, Received ye the Spirit by the WORKS of the LAW, or by the hearing of FAITH?”

    “Are ye SO *FOOLISH* having begun in the *Spirit* are ye now made perfect by the flesh?’

    “He therefore that ministereth to you in the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, you doeth it by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of FAITH?” (Galatians 3: 1, 2, 3, 5) emphasis added.

    O Foolish Terence, WHO hath BEWITCHED You? Ellen G. White and the Judaizing Seventh-day Adventist?

    I will deal with this didactic discourse in much greater detail later on, from Pauls, heart felt concern and love for the *Foolish* Galatians, the very same Apostle who also wrote Galatians 5:22, the FRUIT of the Spirit.

    You can’t have love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, etc, without its necessary counter position, as strongly EXPRESSED by Paul to the “O FOOLISH Galatins, who hath bewitched YOU…” (3:1).

    I detest DECEPTION, especially spiritual deceit! As there IS no greater form of falsity, then when it is dealing with God’s Word, the Bible.

    What were the first WORDS spoken by Jesus to His disciples in Matthew 24, having asked Him, “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the SIGN of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

    Hear Jesus carefully:

    “And Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘Take HEED that no man DECEIVE you.” (Matth. 24: 3a, 5) emphasis added.

    Now, I take no pleasure or delight in what I have to submit re Ellen G. White, but, I have to do it, as we are exhorted, “…that ye SHOULD earnestly CONTEND for the FAITH ( body of doctrinal substance and TRUTH) which WAS *ONCE* delivered unto the saints.” (Jude 1: 2a) emphasis added.

    The following is taken mainly from FORMER devout Adventist Pastors, who served the SDA church faithfully, UNTIL, they began to question, study, and soundly ‘Divide the Word’ of God, in the teeth of Adventist heresy and false doctrine.

    As Sydney Cleveland, former devout Seventh-day Adventist Pastor for 11 years, states in his book, “Uncovering the Myths of Ellen G. White, WHITE WASHED.”

    “I was a third-generation Seventh-day Adventist. Ellen White WAS as much a part of my childhood training as was the Bible. During my sixteen years of education in SDA schools I was taught that Sister White’s twenty million words were JUST as inspired as the Bible, I was TAUGHT that she was a genuine prophet just like the Bible prophets, therefore, she never erred or *contradicted* God’s Word, I hardly knew where the Bible left off and Ellen White’s WRITINGS began. So, for ten years as an ordained minister of the SDA Church, I faithfully preached the writings of Ellen G. White to my congregations. I taught them whay I had been taught- NOT knowing that much of my theology WAS based on the influenced by her writings.” (p. 1) emphasis added.

    Dale Ratzlaf, former Adventist, and author of “Sabbath in CRISIS” and “CULTIC Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventist” in his foreword to Cleveland’s book states:

    “This book will not be easy reading for Seventh-day Adventists. For Adventists to entertain the thought that their “Messenger of the Lord” whose “pen of inspiration” still speaks through the “Testimonies” could be a false prophet, is unthinkable.”

    “If this were not enough, Sydney also shows that *deception* and *dishonesty* seem to be the platform upon which the church’s leaders worked for more than a century.”

    “Sydney, like many SDA pastors who left Adventism, shows the error of the church’s unique, central theological ‘pillar’- their October 22, 1844 Sanstuary/Investigative Judgment doctrine” (Ibid) emphasis added.

    This thorough piece of research by Cleveland, which is devastating to the ‘credibility’ of Ellen G. White, as a genuine prophetess, is not so much dealing with her doctrinal aberations, which is thoroughly dealt with by Ratzlaff in his great work, ‘Sabbath in CRISIS’ and ‘CULTIC Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventist’ but, rather, exposes Ellen G. White, as a plagairzer of immense proportions, second to none!

    Why should you read this book?

    As Cleveland correctly asserts:

    “If you are not a Seventh-day Adventist, this book will help you understand the *stranglehold* Ellen White has upon the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. The information you will receive from this book will enable you to be a powerful witness for God as you expose the MYTHS of Ellen White” (Ibid., p.2) Emphasis added.

    The Seal of God for the New Testament Church? Which is it? The ‘Sabbath’ OR ‘The Holy Spirit?”

    Cleveland points out what IS the ‘heart’ of the Seventh-day Adventist church:

    (A) view of end time events IS THE DOCTRINE that the Sabbath is the ‘SEAL OF GOD,” and that worship on Sunday is the ‘Mark of the beast.’ (Ibid., p.2)

    Yes, this is the ‘core’ the very ‘Apex’ upon which Adventist base their vehement attack on other churches, whom they label ‘Babylon’ as Cleveland states:

    “Deliberately created by Ellen White..All of that came from Ellen White. But what about the rest of the twenty-seven doctrinal beliefs of Adventism? Are they Biblical? This book will help you examine the evidence.” ( Ibid., p. 2).

    Before I go on any further, let me state, yes, Adventist believe in Justification by grace through faith, that Jesus is saviour and Lord. This is not the problem with Adventist, BUT, what they ADD to, ot TAKE AWAY from this, coming from the supposed ‘inspired’ writings of the ‘Lord’s Messenger’ Ellen G. White, which then completely vitiate and invalidate Grace, you CANNOT have it both ways, it is EITHER/OR, but NOT BOTH/AND! It is either Grace from beginning (Justification) to consummation (Glorification) as Paul wrote:

    “I do NOT frustrate the GRACE of God: For if righteousness come by the LAW, then Christ is dead in vain.” (Gal. 2:21) emphasis added.

    Again, Paul stresses the point:

    “For IF the *inheritance* be of the law, it is NO MORE of PROMISE: but God gave it to Abraham by PROMISE.” (Gal 3:18) emphasis added.

    I will do an exegesis on this verse, with emphasis on the meaning of the word *inheritance* and the PROMISE to Abraham that was given over 400 years BEFORE the LAW, through Moses. It devatates Adventist contention re the Sabbath and the Law!

    The following statement appears in the Preface of the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual:

    “When the judgment of the General Conference, which IS the highest *authority* that God HAS upon the EARTH, is exercised, PRIVATE independence and PRIVATE judgment must NOT be maintained, but be surrendered, Ellen G. White, Testimonies, Vol 3, p. 492, (written in 1973).

    Certainly sounds strikingly similar to the very historic institution that Adventism so sternly, and correctly condemns, Roman Catholicism!

    What IS the ‘Seal of God?

    Ellen G. white states:

    “Too late they see that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment IS the seal of the living God” (Great Controversy, p. 640, written in 1888.)

    “The sign, or SEAL of God is revealed in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath…The Mark of the beast IS the opposite of this- the observance of the firsy day of the week (Sunday)” (Testimomies Vol. 8, p. 117, written in 1904.)

    “John was called to behold a people distinct from those who worship the beast or his image by keeping the first day of the week. The observance of this day (Sunday) is the mark of the beast.” (Testimonies to Ministers, Vol. 8, p.133, 1898.)

    Now, what does Almighty God in HIS WORD, the Bible, regarding what IS His *SEAL* on New Testament believers?

    Hear God Word, NOT Ellen G. White:

    “You were MARKED in HIM with a *SEAL* the promised (Sabbath day, NO! NO! NO!) the HOLY SPIRIT” (Eph.1:13) emphasis added.

    “Do not grieve the HOLY SPIRIT of God, with whom you WERE *SEALED* for the day of redemption.” (Eph. 4:30) emphasis added,

    On this “Ye were SEALED” Archibald Thomas Robertson, A.M., D.D., LL.D., Litt.D, Professor of New Testament Interpretation, in the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary of Louisville, Kentucky, says:

    “Ye were SEALED (ephragisthete). First aorist passive indicative of “sphragizo” old verb, to SET a SEAL on one as a MARK or STAMP, sometimes the marks of ownership or of worship of deities like ‘stigmata’ (gal. 6:17). Marked and AUTHENTICATED as God’s heritage as in 4:30. See II Cor. 1:22 for the very use of the metaphor here APPLIED to the HOLY SPIRIT even with the word ‘arrobon’ (earnest) Spirit (pneumati). In the instrumental case (Word Pictures in The New Testament, Vol. IV, The Epistles of Paul, p. 519). Emphasis added.

    This most erroneous, heretical teaching of ELLEN G. WHITE, stand as the ‘core’ or foundation of Seventh-dau Adventism.

    Who ARE we to believe Terence, the plagairized writings, and utter contradictons of God’s Word, by Ellen G. White, OR, HIS WORD, the Bible, foever SEALED in Heaven, delivered to the SAINTS, ONCE, in the New Testament canon of Scripture?

    Much more to come!!!


  42. There is no God, there can be no God. Itโ€™s ridiculous to think in terms of a superior being. An inferior being maybe, because we arrange our lives with more order and harmony than God ever arranged the earth. We measure, we plot, and we create wonderful musings. We are the architects of our own existence. What a lunatic concept to bow down before a God that slaughters millions of innocent children; slowly and agonising starves them to death…what folly to think that we should not insult such a God, damn him, think him out of existence. It is our duty to think God out of existence; it is our duty to insult him. Fuck you God, strike me down if you dare you tyrant, you non-existent fraud. It is the duty of all human beings to think God out of existence, and then we have a future. Because then, and only then, do we take full responsibility for who we are


  43. @ GP and TB.

    Where can we ordinary people find a “true” bible that we can read, mark, learn and inwardly digest?

    The only bible I have ever read (parts thereof) is an “Anglican” bible.


  44. Is Christianity to be blamed for colonialism or were the teachings of the ‘prince of peace’ hijacked by conquerors and invaders / christian soldiers.


  45. Hants
    @ GP
    Where can we ordinary people find a โ€œtrueโ€ bible that we can read, mark, learn and inwardly digest?

    The only bible I have ever read (parts thereof) is an โ€œAnglicanโ€ bible.
    ===========================
    I didnt know that there was an โ€œAnglicanโ€ bible Hants. You can read any KJV or New KJV or better yet the Amplified version of the KJV Bible

    I like the style of the KJV. The Amplified Version has in brackets synonyms to help clarify some of the obsolete old English words.


  46. Oh Hants you should be able to get a good hardly read almost brand new second hand Bible from any Used Book store in North America and very cheaply too! LOL


  47. Now, a bit more on Ellen G. White, Seventh-day-Adventist revered, so-called prophetess, whose writings, 100,000 handwritten pages of manuscripts, for a total of 15 to 2o million words, are the benchmark of Adventist theology.

    It is an established fact, even though in recent times, Seventh-day Adventist, primarily because of the revelation of the ‘Truth’ concerning her colossal *plagiarism*, have embarrassingly sought to reduce their estamation of her ‘writings’.

    The salient and arresting point in all of this, comes to the surface, as former Adventist Pastor, Sydney Cleveland posits:

    “But, was Ellen White inspired by God as Seventh-day Adventist claim? Were her writings inspired in the same way Bible writers were inspired? Did she write out what she directly received from God through dreams and visions? OR, did she COPY the writings of other authors? And, if she COPIED, did she admit she COPIED? In her books did she give CREDIT to those authors as her sources? Or, did she DENY she COPIED from others? Specifically, we must discover the TRUTH about the SOURCE of her writings and teachings? (Uncovering the Myths of Ellen G. white, WHITE WASHED, p. 6) emphasis added.

    The following are Ellen G. White’s quotations, where she specifically states the SOURCE of her LETTERS, ARTICLES, BOOKS, and TEACHINGS!!

    “Some are ready to inquire: Who told Sister White these things? They have put the question to me: Did anyone tell you these things? I could answer them: Yes, the ANGEL of God has spoken to me…But…for the future, I shall NOT belittle the TESTIMONIES that God has GIVEN TO ME, to make explanations to try to satisfy such narrow minds, but shall treat all such questions as an insult to the Spirit of God” (Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 314-315, written in 1893.) emphasis added.

    Let us continue to hear the derranged mind of this so-called prophetess.

    “The Lord has seen fit to give me a view of the needs and errors of His people…I have faithfully set before the offenders their faults and the means of remedying them, according to the dictates of the Spirit of God…This has the Spirit of God pronounched warnings and judgments…” (Testimonies, Vol 4, p.14, written in 1876).

    “I am just as dependant upon the Spirit of the Lord in realating or WRITING a vision, as in having a vision. It is impossble for me to call up things which have been shown me UNLESS the Lord brings them before me at the time that He is pleased to have me relate or WRITE them” (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 2, p. 293, written in 1860.)

    “Although I am dependant upon the Spirit of the Lord in WRITING my views as I am in receiving them, yet the WORDS I employ in describing what I have seen are my own, UNLESS they be those spoken by an angel, which I always enclose in marks of quotation” (Review and Herald, Oct 8, 1867, quoted in ‘Selected Messages’ Vol. I, p.37).

    “In my books, the truth is stated, barricaded by ‘thus saith the Lord.’ (Letter 90, 1906, quoted in Ellen G. White, by Arthur L. White, Vol. 4, p. 393).

    “I am only an instrument in the Lord’s hand, to do the work He has set for me to do. The instructions that I have given ny PEN or voice have been an EXPRESSION of the light God has given me. I have tried to place before you the principles that the SPIRIT of God has for years been impressing upon my mind and writing on my heart” (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 691, written in 1889).

    Note carefully the following quote from E.G. White:

    “I have written many books, and they have been given a wide circulation. Of myself I could not HAVE BROUGHT OUT the truth in these books. But the Lord has given me the help of His Holy Spirit. These giving the instruction that the Lord has given me during the past SIXTY YEARS, contain LIGHT FROM HEAVEN, and will bear the test of investigation” (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, p.35, written in 1906).

    As Cleveland asserts:

    “The evidence is plain that Ellen White herself BELIEVED she was divinely inspired. She CONSISTENTLY taught that her visions were the SOURCE for the information she WROTE in letters, articles, and testimonies. Her husband James White, strongly defended her claims: (Ibid, p.8).

    “(Ellen White) does not ‘obtain the sentiments’ of her visions ‘from previous teachings or study.’ (James White, in A Word to the ‘Little Flock’ p.22, written in 1847).

    On the facts and evidence of Ellen White plagiarism, Cleveland says:

    “But during her lifetime and over succeeding years, information has repeatedly surfaced indicating Ellen White was NOT HONEST about the source of her information. Especially in the last three decades, have researchers uncovered SUCH A MOUNTAIN of evidence proving Ellen White’s plagairism, that the Seventh-day Adventist Church WAS compelled to undertake its oen investigation” (Ibid., p. 8).

    The heart and foundation upon which Seventh-day Adventism rest, is the volumious writings of ELLEN G. WHITE, no dedicated Pastor , or devout lay person, are without a set of the VOLUMES by their revered prophetess.

    QUESTION: Does a TRUE Prophet or Prophetess of Almight God, LIE about their supposed DEAMS, VISIONS, REVELATIONS? Absolutely NOT!!

    Cleveland then ask: “How wide-spread was Ellen White’s copying” Dr. Veltman concluded she had copied SO much from others that:

    “The content of Ellen White’s commentary on the life and ministry of Christ, ‘The Desire of Ages’ is for the most part derived (copied) rather than original…In practical terms, this conclusion declares that one is NOT able to recognize in Ellen White’s writings on the Life of Christ and general category of content or catalog of ideas that is unique to her” (Ibid., p.9)

    As Cleveland goes on to stress: “Remember, this WAS NOT what Ellen White’s opponents were saying about her; this WAS the conclusion of the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s OWN carefully chosen, official research team!”

    When Robert Olson (then secretary of the White Estate) was asked by David Jarnes (then associate editor of Ministry magazine) if he was satisfied with the validity of the Veltman study, Olson replied:

    “I am totally satisfied with this study. No one could have done a better job- NO ONE. He (Veltman) did as a ‘neutral’ person would have, not as one who is an apologist.” (‘Olson Discusses the Veltman Study’ Ministry, December, 1990, p.16.)

    Cleveland then goes on to point out:

    “The Veltman study in 1988 did not present anything that the highest leadership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has not known for generations. Problems over Ellen White’s copying had surfaced and been admitted ONE HUNDRED YEARS EARLIER, when she published her plagiarzed books, “Sketches From the Life of Paul.’ Originally the book was published under the title ‘Spirit of Prophecy’ Vilume 3. Later, the book was under the new name: ‘Sketches From the Life of Paul’ (Ibid.m pp. 11, 12).

    This much loved book by Ellen White, ‘Sketches From the Life of Paul’ was in fact published by the Review and Herald and Pacific Press, two Seventh-day Adventist publishing houses, early in summer of 1883. BUT, as it was dropped out of print because of the discovered *plagiarism* committed by Ellen White.

    Hear Cleveland:

    “What was the historical context which caused Ellen White’s book to drop out of print? Arthur Daniells, General Conference president in Ellen White’s day, gave the answer. He said that while ‘Sketches From the Life of Paul in 1878, Ellen White had COPIED SO MUCH from Life and Epistles of Saint Paul (written 30 years earlier), that its authors, Conybeare and Howson, threatened to made trouble for the demonination on account of her PLAGAIRISM. Since Conybeare and Howson’s book had not been copyrighted, they may not have won a lawsuit, but they could have done something far worse; publicly exposed Ellen White as A PLAGIARIST and LIAR. Thus, it was in the Church’s best interest to immediately drop Ellen White’s plagairized book.”

    Adventist scholars and apologists have gone to extreme lengths, to in some way, justify and expain away this disguisting plagairism and downright LIES from Ellen G. White.

    Lies are LIES, and blatant, dishonest PLAGAIRISM, remains plagairism, BUT, what IS even WORSE, is Ellen White’s adding to, and taking away from God’s Word, twisting and utter concolution, which I’ll give a few examples of a bit later!


  48. BBB, You even worse than NM. Oh Lord now Oh Lord! Pun intended! Look wah you gone and start! Oh Lord!

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