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Leader of the Opposition Mia Mottley
Leader of the Opposition Barbados Labour Party Mia Mottley
Mr. Harold Hoyte is a founding member of the Nation Group and is President and Editor-in-Chief of The Nation Publishing Company in Barbados.
Harold Hoyte Editor Emeritus of The Nation Publishing Company
Lindsay Holder, former Chairman of the BAMC
Lindsay Holder is a former Chairman of the Barbados Agricultural Management Company Limited

Over the last couple years BU has articulated, we hope dispassionately, on the issue of the open immigration policy which was practiced by the previous government. At no time have we supported xenophobic behaviour or bigotry in the ensuing discourse. We have simply held a position that while Barbados should be committed to its obligations under the Treaty of Chaguaramus, it does not mean that our borders should be assaulted by all and sundry seeking the proverbial streets lined with gold at the expense of the vision which Barbadians have held-up for itself through the years. BU readers can do a search using the keyword โ€˜immigrationโ€™ to access the many blogs posted on this subject.

The conspiracy which has emerged across the region to spin a false position in response to Prime Minister David Thompsonโ€™s Ministerial Statement after he announced an amnesty for CARICOM nationals, has been blatant and symptomatic of a political and social immaturity.

Any interested observer of regional affairs would conclude that the issue of immigration is a topical one. Since the announcement by Thompson of the amnesty the issue has become accentuated. In the Advocate Newspaper of 14 June 2009 a Mr. Lindsay Holder was as clear as anyone can be in elucidating on the immigration issue which Barbados and the region is currently battling, he did so without the use of jargon, fuzzy logic, ideological or jingoistic biases. We highly commend the Advocate Newspaper for giving voice to this important issue which is being manipulated by politicians, academics, Fourth Estate and prominent and other influential persons in Barbados and across the region.

As the popular saying goes we will probably not agree with the many persons who submit articles to be published on BU, but we will always defend their right to be heard. In recent days BU in this vain would have published two submissions by George Braithwaite, a PhD Candidate in International Politics researching the topic of immigration in the region.

In the Sunday Sun of 14 June 2009 the headline Bad Rep, the Opposition Leader of Barbados Mia Mottley was highly critical of the Barbados governmentโ€™s new immigration policy. She suggested that Barbados isย  likely to suffer a backlash from some Caricom members as a result. The point which continues to elude Mottley is the fact that managing our borders is a matter of sovereignty and MUST not be dictated by those who themselves have done a muck-up job of managing their own countries.

Increasingly in recent weeks one of the characteristics which defines an American has beenย  been flickering in the minds of the BU household. The best definition we could find of what it meansย  to be an American is an unswerving support and devotion to our flag, our elected officials, our men and women in uniform. For others, patriotism means criticizing politicians when they take America in the wrong direction, protesting in the streetsโ€”sometimes even burning the flag. Patriotism also has complex ties to citizenship, race, and nationalism, as well as to the ways in which we remember our wars and the people who fought in them โ€“ University of Chicago.

Barbados for all that it has accomplished, and which has led to it being considered the island of opportunity in the region, has been allowing slowly but surely, a conspiracy by some to take root to undermine the Bajan success. The issue which Barbados faces is not honouring its obligations under the Treaty of Chaguaramus, but one of ensuring that it effectively manages the country in the way that it has successfully done in a post-independence era.ย  Many of the countries in the region who are crying foul of the new immigration policy i.e. Guyana and St. Vincent would do well to use Barbados as a model to their own revival of political and economic fortunes.

The two stakeholders in Barbados we are most disappointed are the Opposition Barbados Labour Party and the Fourth Estate. In the face of a regional conspiracy to undermine the reputation and goodwill of Barbados which was built under the astute management by successive governments, we have a situation now where for political expediency the government in waiting is safeguarding it legacy by confusing the illegal immigration problem faced by Barbados by masking its position in the known challenges of implementing a political and economic union. In another place BU used the analogy that if CARICOM/CSME were a regional company its profitability would hinge on an efficient implementation of aย  vertical integration strategy. CARICOM conversely has not done enough to strengthen and harmonize key institutions and procedures.

The Fourth Estate in Barbados has aided and abetted the vulnerable position which Barbados now finds itself by being unpatriotic in the positions is has taken, the Nation Newspapers and Voice of Barbados the main culprits. The media in Barbados has been generous in giving a voice to an anti-government sentiment concerning the immigration issue. The populist view in Barbados is a commonsense view that the previous governmentโ€™s position of allowing unskilled people whether from Guyana, Jamaica and elsewhere is untenable. Even the other ethnic groups from Europe and China have come under the microscope. Talk show host Dennis Johnson always uses the example that all are welcome to Barbados but it must be done under agreed terms. In other words if you are invited to someone’s home one still needs to knock on the door and remain seated in the sitting room before being invited to the bedroom. After all it is our home and respect and common courtesies are due!

The fact that our Fourth Estate in Barbados gives a generous voice to Rickey Singh, who continues to bite the hand which has fed him for so many years, and not give EQUAL voice to other views which represent ordinary Barbadians is disgusting. Bare in mind that Singh has not used his pen to expose the atrocities currently at play in Guyana.

The fact that the Fourth Estate ignores the hatchet job being done on the good reputation of Barbados by Singh, Saunders et al who are syndicated columnists and remain passive to respond is an indictment on their duty to accurately report the views of ordinary Barbadians who are its supporters.

The fact that the Guyanese media has been freely publishing articles which are unfairly critical of Barbadosโ€™ immigration policy with no response from the Barbados media except to cherry pick those opinions which support narrow political views is hypocrisy of a high level.

The fact that the media in Barbados continues to blackout reporting on the political and racial tensions in Guyana which have spurred an exodus of Guyanese to swarm the smaller Caribbean nations to the North is journalistic dishonesty.

The fact that the media has ignored the commonsense concern of ordinary Barbadians that learned behaviours derived in a Guyanese environment rifted with racial conflict may pose issues to the stable host population of Barbados is ignorant.

The fact that the Fourth Estate and the Opposition Party of Barbados led by Mia Mottley sit passively and allow Jagdeo to cherry pick the issue of immigration to undermine the earned good reputation of Barbados is unpatriotic. The known political and racial conflict in Guyana and the accommodation of unsavoury people like Roger Khan et al which have been left silent represent a betrayal of Barbados and a usurping of their core responsibilities.

The Chairmanship of CARICOM will be passed to Jagdeo in July, he will without a doubt use tit o promote his narrow interest.ย  It maybe the last straw which will break the backย  and or setback the regional initiative of CARICOM and the CSME.


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  1. @Adrian and mash up buy back

    Agree with you.

    Even if the articles are long we have people in the media and other stakeholders for which Holder’s insight will prove to be a good resource.

    Government operatives need to get on the Internet and other fora and divide the immigration matter in a Barbados context.


  2. Enters Doppleganger J to confuse the thread and discussion with their nonsense. First you should define what “dispassionate” means to you, before listing other peoples statement as not conforming to your understanding. You should try this first before concluding as you childishly did, by retyping others statements to give the same silly monotonous answer. It is a good thing that you can cut and paste otherwise you would have merely engaged in wasting ink and paper.

    [quote]
    David some people might agree with me that you are a jingoistic, hot headed zenophobe and that on BU you give voice to the few people in Barbados who share your views.
    ——————————————-
    You also would need to substantiate your claim here as well.

  3. Mash up &buy back Avatar
    Mash up &buy back

    Adrian J just likes attention.

    She has nothing worthwhile to contribute but seeks only to criticise.

    A purebred BLP yardie.

  4. 20 Less to worry about Avatar
    20 Less to worry about

    We are hearing a lot of sob stuff from the publicity-seekers with their scare tactics, about how Guyanese are being hauled out of their beds in the middle of the night, and of course the operative word, which they won’t use is “illegal”, so that the world at large will think that we Bajans are a merciless, heartless bunch. What they’re also not saying is that if this action is taking place, it is simply because Immigration/Police cannot find these illegals during the daylight hours. They’re all hiding out in caves, friends’ houses and anywhere they can find to hide. Furthermore, when they arrive in Barbados they give one address and the very next day they move on to a different address. And I KNOW what I am talking about,believe me. A white friend of mine told me that an Indo-Guyanese told him that he laughs at our Police and Immigration and that he can outfox “a nigger” any day, and he has no intention of being caught and sent back to Guyana. I heard Peter Simmons on Brass Tacks today, and I want someone to find a huge Guyanese family and throw them in Simmons’s house to live and tell him, “tek dah.”


  5. She enters the discussion and suddenly feel the need to go visit the urinal. I gine pretend it is de tree she claimed she navel string buried under. lol!

    @David the Advocate articles are jpegs, which i have copied and will convert to PDF’s where i can cut out sections. I have not decided how i will go about the breakout of the article, but one way is to do so by Author of comments, which I think Linsay used to drive his approach of juxtapositioning current claims and statements by authors with at odds previous one and facts to refute their position.


  6. Dear Adrian:

    Dispassionate has only ONE meaning.

    David is NOT a dispassionate commentator on migration.

    Dear mash up and buy back:

    I am not now nor have I ever been a member of any political party.

    I am not now nor have I ever been friends nor family with any member of any political party.

    And before people start accusing me again of being Ezra Alleyne’s woman (what ever her name is) I have never met Mr. Alleyne nor his woman, whatever her name is.

    I have no desire to meet any current nor former politicians either.

    But I want people to think.

    And I want David to defend his statement that he is a DISPASSIONATE commentator on migraton issues.


  7. @J

    BU will defend your right to post.

    You are entitled to your opinion.

  8. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds
    “…BU and LIB has over 3 MILLION links…”

    I’m intrigued by this claim, and wonder if you can share the source.

  9. Mash up &buy back Avatar
    Mash up &buy back

    F

  10. Mash up &buy back Avatar
    Mash up &buy back

    Fine J

    Will let sleeping dogs lie.


  11. I can see that there will be social unrest in Barbados. If Ricky Singh and company think that bajans will lie down and play dead they have another thing coming.

    I was talking to a comrade this evening and I am getting the impression that the Guyanese as well as Jamaicans are deciding to go underground. They have started to go to the opposition leader and ask to remain here in Barbados under the scam of opening a shop or hair dressing salon claiming that htey are business people. Ask Trevor Prescod. He recently carried a Jamaican to his leader to get this Jamaican man to remain here in Barbados. How comes Mia not representing the folks in her constituency, but can represent outsiders.

    Mia Mottley we TRUE BAJANS have some news for you and the Trevor Prescods of Barbados. We Bajans are watching you closely and we realise that you dont care nothing about us!
    How could you treat your own people like this; we will make sure that you pay dearly with our Xs.

    Yesterday I was talking to a Guyanese girl who was here from last year crop over and she has not left yet. she is one who is trying to open a saloon. I ask her where was her credentials that stated the validity of her being a hairdresser! I asked her how they could be so caniving well you know she disappeared I didn’t get her name. But I will make sure I do!

    If these persons think that bajans are fools well I guess they will see!


  12. I’m not sure a public campaign is necessary,I do however think that showing solidarity with countries that face the exact same problem of illegal immigration would be quite helpful on the Caricom level,which would include mainly Antigua & St. Kitts.

    I also strongly believe that Barbados Government should take the assistance given from Aussies if they are truly giving it.It may not seem like it,but Australia has some stringent immigration regulations that the UK have been trying to mimick & is S or Canada.

    http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090615/lead/lead9.html

    “CARIBBEAN COUNTRIES feeling the strain of illegal immigration might soon get assistance to prevent such influx from Australia’s government, says Philip Kentwell, that country’s high commissioner to the Caribbean.

    Kentwell, who was in Jamaica last week, told The Gleaner he has met security officials in some Caribbean territories and discussed possible collaboration with their counterparts in Australia. He visited Jamaica in May for talks with Police Commissioner Rear Admiral Hardley Lewin and Major General Stewart Saunders, chief of defence staff.

    “Over the last 30 years, we have developed a level of expertise in this area in Australia which we think we can share with the Caribbean,” Kentwell said.

    Details withheld

    Kentwell did not disclose details of his talks with Lewin and Saunders, but said they spoke about the growing guns-for-drugs trade between criminals in Jamaica and Haiti, which has resulted in the arrests of several persons from both countries.

    Last week, Operation Kingfish, an elite squad in the Jamaica Constabulary Force, reported that the United Nations Security Forces had arrested Jamaican Clifford Mills, said to be a major figure in the illicit trade.

    Jamaican police have arrested nationals from Haiti and Latin America for illegally entering the country during the last decade. Most of the Haitians land in the east coast parishes of St Thomas and Portland, saying they fled civil unrest in their country.

    Fishermen from Honduras and El Salvador have been arrested off the Pedro Cays on Jamaica’s south coast, mainly for fishing without permits.

    Caribbean Community member states Barbados and Suriname and the British Virgin Islands, an associate member, have also experienced an influx of illegal immigrants from Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

    Problems with foreigners

    Australia has had its problems with foreign nationals attempting to enter that country from war-torn countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as China and Indonesia. Former Australian Prime Minister John Howard instituted the Pacific Solution in 2001, using the country’s navy to block boats from coming ashore.

    Kentwell, a career diplomat, has been Australia’s high commissioner to the Caribbean since June 2007. He is based in Port-of-Spain, Trinidad and Tobago. “


  13. On that last statement I meant to say,* the Australian regulations are even tougher than that of Canada or the US *


  14. You want to know what has e so vex! Trevor Prescod and crew claim that they are Pan Africanists however, they refuse to kickup pist about the atrocities that Ruel Daniels and their fellow pan africanist brothers and sisters state about the awful treatment towards blacks in the very said Guyana.

    He is playing politics with this issue and for that I detest his principles! Silly Man!

    See how far that will get you.


  15. @J

    If Lindsay Holder wants to APPEAL to daily newspaper readers he has to learn to make his articles SHORT and SWEET
    **************************************

    How short is your attention span? Holder provided a very detailed article on how we arrived at this junction in our history, he traced the history of the failed West Indian integration movements. He recalled the statements made by the various leaders in the region and contrasted them with what the current leaders are saying today. He dissected the various writings of the โ€œjournalistsโ€ among us and proved that at best they are hypocrites and at worse just pushing a political agenda. He provided some background on how the European countries are dealing with a similar issue. His article was very well balanced as far as I am concerned. If the article was too long for you just give me your PO Box no. and I will forward some Archie and Jughead comics.

    Those should be just the right length


  16. LOLLOLha ha ha

  17. Checkmate-123 Avatar

    Hahahahaha! Australia does take a tougher stance against illegal immigration than most other countries. But a birdie told me that in 2005, the Australian government estimated that over 50, 000 persons were undocumented. It is a real eye-opener that so many people know everything except the hard facts. Wunna mek me laugh!


  18. @Checkmate

    Remember what the issue is all about.

    It’s pity we have some Barbadian academics who would usurp their role for narrow partisan political positions.

    The BLP left the immigration mess to clean up, let’s put our heads together and do it. Time for playing childish games has come to an end!

    On 6/15/09, David wrote: @mash up buy back
    The GIS and government portal should me used to distill the policy for newswires to pick up. The government needs to make some basic info public like estimated number of illegals and the breakdown. The willingness of this and previous BLP governments to allow conjecture to dominate is clouding the issue. To stay silent and be pummelled by forces in and out of Barbados allows the issue to by mired in politics.


  19. Dear Sargeant:

    I have no post office box, because I am happy to receive all and any mail right at home.

    Do you want my home address?

    Thanks for offering the comics.


  20. Just took a quick look thru some of the 2001 revised Treaty and Articles 46 para 3 & 47 para.1 gives Bajans and David Thompson the right to protect & preserve Barbados from any and all economic and social (and other)hardships. (Not that this sovereign nation should need authority from outsiders). So press on with the interest of Barbados and let the chips fall where the hell they may.

    Also listened in to that J’ca interview with George Brathwaite. He came across as a featherweight without any substance at all just pure emotion. To hear him stuttering around for the lack of proper words was truly a stomach churning moment, almost like nails on a chalkboard. True replica of traitors in our midst.

    As for Mottley–also true to form – a house nigress/er. This kind will always stay true to the illusion of power, money and prestige. That’s the oil in their engines. They are not interested in the sovereignty of that puny island, just sell out to the highest bidder, simply because the Bajan population for the most part has relinquished its welfare to the long-whiskered billygoats whose real mission is no different from their four-legged prototype of the barnyard stock.

    Should Barbados continue on the path of allowing Jadeo’s group to migrate and exhibit their clanish behaviour on that island, the Black people will soon be reduced to status of the Black “UNTOUCHABLES” in India who are relegated to lowest status in that society, where they are only employed to clean the sewage systems and filter thru the dumps for scraps to eat.

    Bajans stay vigilant!


  21. Checkmate-123,yah play de wrong move & ya know it,lol.

    What you failed to recognize was that most of the illegals in Aussie land are American & Brits.Australia also requires a visa for every single country in the world & has a population of 21 million people.

    That would equate to every 430th person in Aussie land being illegal,while in Barbados it would be every 10th person,in the US it would be every ~15th person & Bermuda with every ~332nd person,get it now !


  22. Very good point Jay you are smart!


  23. As a bajan I feel shame about George~!


  24. Why would any one want to listen to Peter Simmons, whose loyalty to lies, liars and leeches, is marked with the stamp of BLP politricks.

    How can we be sympathetic to a ruthless invasion of our borders by traitors doing so for financial rewards. Is there no end to the manipulative endeavours of these evil tyrants.

    Even though the Prime Minister and his troopers starting to smell stink in some areas, I am going to support the immigration policy tooth and nail. If you want to come to Barbados and live do so legally and not illegally. Because if you are illegal you break the law and thus are subject to the laws full force.


  25. The Scout wrote: “YES, Sen Maxine McClean had stated that there are about 60,000 to 70,000 illegal persons in Barbados. I think that is the figure she gave.”

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, no wonder that the people on these blogs hate my REASON-ABLE-ness.

    If Ms. McLean said that Barbados has 60,00 to 70,000 illegal immigrants, then she is wrong, or maybe the Scout is mistaken in what he believes Ms. McLean said.

    Sit down children while I give you a basic lesson in statistics/demographics. I will make it real life as real as we can get.

    Check your newspapers from the past few weeks to find out how many children took the 11+ exam. Yes about 3,800 children took the exam this year and about the same number last year, and the year before and the year before and very likely the same number will take the exam next year.

    Now multiply 3,800 children by 12 years (that is by the number of children who are in the following classes, Reception, Infants A, Infants B, Class 1, Class 2, Class 3, Class 4, 1st form, 2nd form, 3rd form, 4th form and 5th form) now the number that you should get if you can do multiplication as well as an 11+ child is 45,600 which means that Barbados has 45,600 school age children.

    Does any body out there really believe that we have as many illegal immigrants as we have school children and then about 50% more or 24,400 more.

    Look people if you believe that nonsense about Barbados having 60,000 to 70,000 illegal immigrants then you are permitting yourself to be manipulated by people who believe that you cannot do 11+ arithmetic; or by power hungry people who are motivated by naked racism and xenophobia.

    I don’t care what the Scout writes or what the Scout believes that Ms. McLean has said; Barbados does NOT have anywhere near 60,000 to 70,000 illegal immigrants. In truth the correct figure is likely less than 10% of 60,000.

    Ask yourself then why the DLP led hysteria about illegal immigration?


  26. Tis debate or rather this shouting reminds me of the time of Dr. Scholsberg who tole us that half of us would be dead by 2000.

    We believed that nonsense.

    I have even had some people tell me that Dr. Scholsberg was right and Dr. Waldron was wrong, even though we know very well that half of Barbados is not HIV+

    It reminds me also of the time of my youth when a statistic of 7 women to every man was bandied about. Barbados has NEVER had and will NEVER have 7 women to every man, yet a lot of people believed that nonsense too.

    So NOPE there are not 70,000 recent immigrants to Barbados, legal nor illegal,


  27. J
    You just used a very vague method to ascertain the amount of illegals in this country. Please let me use mine; take an early bus out of St. Lucy, St.Philip, St.John, St. Joseph, St George a morning, if there are 10 bajans on a crowded bus, there are a lot. Drive on almost every construction site in Barbados and listen to the accent of the workers, only 10% speaks bajan. Drive through the length and breathe of Barbados and observe the number of workers in the agricultural fields; only 10% or so are locals. Go into the “big boys’ houses in Barbados and see the nationality of most of their domestic workers; certainly not bajan. Then go into B’town and observe the workers in the stores, again certainly not bajan. What is most alarming, is going into B’town on Friday or Saturday and just casually walk the street and observe that bajans are outnumbered in the city on these days. If only about 15% at most of these people are legal, then that estimate CANNOT be too far out. Some of you people drive around in your a/c SUV’s and don’t have a clue of what is going on in Barbados. I haven’t even mentioned the ones who stay at home and look after the many children who do not attend any school because they are illegal> I have even observe a few now driving ZR’s and Mini-buses. All I would say to all you, keep camping under the eruptive volcano.


  28. It has to be stated that flights come into Barbados every day from Guyana and other regional countries. Most of the passengers are persons from the region and areallowed entry into this country, once they documents are legitimate. In other words Barbados has not ban anyone from coming into the country. What we have done is tighten up on the whole system to prevent those who come here and don’t even know where they are staying or at whom. All they want to do is get pass the immigration and customs. We CANNOT afford a “free-for-all” mentality to continue. If my P.M is to plea guilty for protecting the interest and sovereignty of Barbados, then Mr P.M plea GUILTY not with an explanation but with PRIDE>


  29. It seems that guyanese in Barbados believe that they are not guilty of anything by being in Barbados illegal. Here is a mother complaining that her 23 yr old son, who has been here illegal for 2 or 3 yrs and picked up for deportation , has done nothing wrong. This is the biggest understatement of the year. Lady, when that guy, who admitted he came to Barbados to find work, did not tell the immigration dept that or else he would have been returned. He most likely told them he was on holiday and was given 2 wks in the country. His false declaration was his first crime, i.e misleading the Barbados Government. secondly he starts to work, he did not have a work permit at first, my government assisted him for the period the employer/s needed him. Thirdly, he again overstayed his time since his work permit for that particular jog had expired. Please lady, tell me seriously what my government did wrong in sending him back home. What you should be doing is lamenting the bad government in Guyana for not being able or willing to look after its citizens. Barbados CANNOT solve Guyana’s woes, and we bajans WILL NOT allow it to happen in any case.


  30. J
    I agree with you about the number of illegal immigrants. The Government is doing the correct and responsible thing to uphold the law and to ensure that the number of illegal immigrants do not reach numbers that are problematic. But I find it interesting that no official of Government has put a figure on the number of illegal immigrants. Ms McClean as a talk show moderator use to frequently ask about the number of illegal immigrants; to paraphrase her she would intone “we’ve got to find out”. She subsequently became a Minister of Government and more importantly the minister with responsibility for immigration matters. She was in this post for nearly a year. I have never heard or read of a official estimate on the number of illegal immigrants during that time. Ms McClean has moved on to the Foreign Affairs assignment. PM Thompson has recently announced the now discussed policy on illegal immigrants and again there has been no estimate of the scope of the problem of illegal immigrants.

    I believe that the number of illegal immigrants is much lower than that of popular opinion. Please note that I am not referring to the total number of immigrants (legal and illegal) but to the illegal portion. I also believe most of the illegal immigrants to be the female consorts of documented workers. These women are probably mostly working as domestics and shop assistants.

    So why has the Government announced the policy at this time? I can only speculate but I believe that it is doing so for the following reasons:

    1) It is correct to uphold the law on immigration.

    2) It resonates with popular concern that there are too large a number of immigrants.

    3) It is part of a wider propaganda effort to discredit the opposition BLP (and Ms Mottley is NOT helping her party in her responses).

    4) It signals to both local employers and potential immigrants that Government has concerns about immigration numbers as a whole particularly at a time of economic contraction.

    By the way, the number of children sitting the common entrance exam has been falling every year.


  31. Isn’t amazing how a country enforcing its laws but more importantly trying to manage its resources at a very difficult time is being crucified by other countries that have not done a good job? Didn’t PJ Patterson talk about lesser developed countries in Caricom creating stress on the union?

    Now the latest intervention by the academics is something called contingent rights. Yes we agree these illegals have rights but…


  32. Secondly we commend David Ellis yesterday for the passionate but balanced contribution he made to the immigration issue. A pity under the last government the media misplaced its tongue.

    Maxine McClean HAS quoted a number on a talk show program of 50 000. Remember all this speculation could have been avoided if the former government had put a proper immigration system in place, see Auditor General’s Report 2008.


  33. Any one that catches the bus can tell you Barbados got in allot Guyanese, once i was in a van and a drunk man get in and shout ‘wait this gine Bridgetown or Georgetown’ the little bit of Bajans break down and the Guyanese would not let he go any further down in the in the bus. That was 8 years ago.

    The government should tell us how much them is deport and if them get deport more than once. I don’t think them could give accurate numbers as to how much here because them illegal, then again them should got all entries & exits for the island documented.

    Their should be a squad that has the purpose of finding those that overstay there welcome and not notify the authorities, before they get a chance to make bonds in society making removing them a difficult task.

    ‘It is part of a wider propaganda effort to discredit the opposition BLP’ Them discredit them self on this issue, no one likes law breakers in Barbados.


  34. David

    “Isnโ€™t amazing how a country enforcing its laws but more importantly trying to manage its resources at a very difficult time is being crucified by other countries that have not done a good job?”

    It is even more ridiculous that we could be blamed for the plight of people whose plight in their own country has caused them to run. The problem is not Barbados, it is Guyana because certainly, if Guyana with all its wealth (tons more than Barbados) was properly managed, Guyanese would not be leaving Guyana like swarms of bees to become problems to every country in the Caribbean. It is not just Barbados if you think so; it is every single Caribbean nation, so I don’t mind Ralph Gonsalves and his musings.

    Right now, St. Lucians are complaining, Antiguans are complaining, Vincentians are complaining too, so Ralph, you better be careful you don’t lose your seat.

    Furthermore, Vincentians, especially, have been tolerated and entertained in Barbados since I was a lad. I see a lot of their children surfacing as Barbadians; surnames like Louis, Jessamy, Rosemond, Platt, Duplessis, Charles, etc. not at all common to the Bajan stock of names.

    All of Nelson Street, New Orleans, etc. were Vincentians and St. Lucians and nobody seemed to have cared that they were legal or illegal.

    St Vincent had two boats, one owned by a man named Mr. King that used to come here and offload at the Careenage; fruits, vegetables and people to sell the produce. Fairchild Street market was full of them.

    We have undertaken our fair share of Caribbean community commitments over the years and provided a home for thousands of Caribbean nationals. It is therefore bogus to start to charge Barbados with a problem that squarely belongs to Guyana…

    but even more damning is the fact that Guyanese themselves treat one another badly and many of them who have gained status here are unfairing their fellowmen; human trafficking and slavery if you ask me. They bring their countrymen here, stack them like sardines in old chattel houses, hold their passports under the guise of getting work permits which they never get and work their asses off for a pittance.

    Furthermore, if any one of them give trouble, they would get set up to be picked up by immigration and deported. All Guyanese doing this to their own; no Bajans involved here.

    Even Norman Faria don’t treat Guyanese like human beings and I am not telling what I heard, I witnessed it for myself; carries them along like animals and curse them in the worse way.

    So when I see he in the media posturing all I saying is, what a hypocrite! He treats them worse than any Bajan would treat them; even immigration. he would victimise them and refuse to renew passports for some of them, leaving them stranded and at the mercy of the law. I had to intervene in several cases where he refused to renew a passport.

    Thing is when I turned up at his house with Guyanese, they would get the renewals the same time and with all the apologies. One day I turned up with a Guyanese who said that he had refused to renew his passport and he wanted to leave. I wanted to know the beast I was dealing with because I could not believe that Norman Faria used to behave so. I put the man to knock on the door and stayed off to see what would happen. When Norman saw him, he started up with words like; “man I tell you to call before you come at my (f) house; don’t ever come here so again…” but when he see me, it was Oh! Mr. King, come on in. Hypocrite.

    For me that verified what the man was saying and that the man had obviously visited Faria before. I did not leave until he gave the man the renewal so the man could get on a plane without being deported. Wicked fellow that Faria. He could take me to court because it happened and I still got the man contact information. He never stopped thanking me, up to today by e-mail.

  35. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    I did not hear all of Brass Tacks yesterday, but agree that Mr. Ellis was passionate. He also raised several questions that were not well answered, in particular “What is the government doing that is wrong?” Amongst the things it is doing wrong is not setting the outline policy in a proper context (numbers, economic sectors affected, etc.) and allowing a lot of speculation to swirl around what they know to be a very sensitive issue: the impact of foreigners on domestic activities.

    I do not know if Ms. McLean made her claim of 50,000 illegal immigrants when she was a talk show host, but I do not recall her or any other minister making a public or Parliamentary claim on the numbers in the two years that I have been in Barbados; that latter is interesting because lying to Parliament is a very serious act of misconduct. That tells a very disturbing story about the ignorance within which the governments have operated and we see why in the AG’s report on the poor state of information systems at the Immigration Department.

    But, putting numbers aside for a moment. If we agree that the government should put a stop to illegal acts, then we need to look at who will help do that and what consequences there may be. Illegal migrants are not existing in a vacuum: they are being helped to a large extent by native Barbadians (unless we are to believe that there is a closed circle in which illegal migrants exists). So, the employers of illegal migrants in contruction, agriculture, domestic services, and illicit actitives; as well as those who depend on illegal migrants for sales and rent of homes must make some choices.

    They could decide to help to regularise the status of illegal migrants because it is in their self interest to keep the services of these people. Assuming they are successful, these workers will remain but with legal status. This move would only be a problem to achieve in the area of illicit activities.

    They could decide to do nothing to regularise the illegal migrants, hoping that they will no longer need their services (economy down now) or will be able to replace them later with either legal migrants or local Barbadians: if either move fails then they will have to reassess the viability of their enterprises.

    Now, getting back to the numbers. The higher the level of illegal immigrants the greater will be the problem for those who have facilitated their lives.

    For me, the resolution of any problem of illegal immigrants is much less one that depends on them but depends more on those who support, need and use them.

    Some key players know that the loss of illegal immigrants’ services will spell the death knell for their activities. It will be interesting to hear if they speak out or if they work quitely to get as many as possible regularised.


  36. This immigration issue continues to be blown out of proportion. Mia and the BLP that she leads do not care about their country Barbados. The y are only interested in power but the electors are not that foolish.
    Negrocrat


  37. @livinginbarbados

    I did not hear all of Brass Tacks yesterday, but agree that Mr. Ellis was passionate. He also raised several questions that were not well answered, in particular โ€œWhat is the government doing that is wrong?โ€ Amongst the things it is doing wrong is not setting the outline policy in a proper context (numbers, economic sectors affected, etc.) and allowing a lot of speculation to swirl around what they know to be a very sensitive issue: the impact of foreigners on domestic activities.
    ————————————————–

    First, in response to your query yesterday, please do your own research on link popularity. I have no information to freely give to you.

    ….Todays popularity link check show LIB holding no.1 spot 3.37 milllion links followed by BU with 3.30 million and BFP a distant 8th 3.3 thousand, out of now 11 blogs/forums I am tracking.

    ….If I am to believe Dennis Jones words above, it would seem that Norman Girvan, George Braithwaite, Havelock Brewster, Ronnie Saunders, Norman Faria, Barat Jagdeo, Ralph Gonzales, Ricky Singh, Mia Mottley , and others are not to be blamed for the angry, emotional, and sophomoric responses they made to the PM announce Immigration policy. Would it not have been prudent to call for clarification, and details before concluding as they all have? Why have they with just an outline not framed as you say in the context to numbers etc fly off the handle and sought to paint all of Barbados much the same as you have done in the two to three years you have been living in Barbados? Am I permitted to conclude as you and your academic friends have done? Your comments about Barbadians are no different than that of others like Ralph Gonzales who Linsay Holder reminded us once said that Bajans believe they are cut above the rest. Truth is you didnโ€™t need any better outline or context, you reproduce George Braithwaiteโ€™s attempt to redefine immigrant status labels in the context of this current debate, you have concluded, and therefore this call for proper context is a sham as far as I am concerned.
    We have been calling for the numbers for a long time . Peter Wickham asked Mia Mottley about them in 2005, no answer, all she would acknowledge is that there is a higher number of them here than at any time before. But Mia Mottley did at some other point give us a breakdown that no one believed, and this is why some of her remaining supporters are willing to stake the claim that actual numbers of illegalโ€™s are less than the numbers bandied about.
    Owen Arthur told Barbados to blame themselves for the HIGH number of Guyanese here
    Owen Arthur said people working in agriculture and construction were being paid lower wages than Barbadians for doing the same work

    Who said?
    โ€œThe separatist propensities of the East Indian, almost naturally developed a label โ€œApanjaatโ€ meaning โ€œonesโ€ own kind, which the East Indian grew to understand from their earliest years and did not have to repeat it, which is an important point. โ€œApanjaatโ€ became a worry, mainly for the blacks who had nothing to confront it withโ€ฆโ€ฆ.

    Who said?
    โ€œWith the Owen Arthur styled Caribbean Single Market and Economy, Barbadians are witnessing the opposite of the vision of the โ€œfounding fathersโ€ of Caribbean Integration. Rather than over populated Barbados providing the vastly under populated Guyana with skilled and productive workers, the Guyanese labor force is being siphoned off to Barbados in a scheme designed to lower the wages of Barbadian workers and produce more profits for the Barbadian capital class.


  38. Scout wrote “Some of you people drive around in your a/c SUVโ€™s and donโ€™t have a clue of what is going on in Barbados.”

    As a matter of good economic and enviromental sense I have not had a car for more than 10 years and I intend never again to own a motor vehicle. I take 6 buses every day, and yes I do know what is happening in Barbados.

    I do not live in an insulated air-conditioned bubble.

    And to anonymous who wrote at 6:22 “By the way, the number of children sitting the common entrance exam has been falling every year.”

    Indeed you are correct. I remember when slightly more than 4,000 children took the 11+ each year. But that has not happened for years. Barbados’ birth rate has been falling steadily for more than 30 years. This is a very serious matter which should have been occupying the minds of the DLP and BLP leadeship for the past 30 years.

    Instead we get silliness about illigal migration.

    The real serious question is how can Bajans be persuaded to have more children?

    I’d like to hear coments on this from the party faithfuls (of both parties)


  39. In my last contribution, I sought to remind persons where Dennis Jones stand on the current debate, don’t let his fluff, bluff you. He is as condesending as Ralp Gonzales has been towards Bajans. I also sought to demonstate that even if we do not know the exact number of illegals here, that; 1: the call from academics for such is to stymie the progress of the debate, argument and momentum away from their position; 2: that the BLP has known for sometime and believe as we all do that the numbers of guyanese here is unusually high. I also sought to portray the silliness of attracting migrant labour from a society frought with racial tension, and the clear stupidity of thinking that we can integrate, unite and come together with persons who have no such intent. Lastly I sought to demonstrate the inconsistencies of some of the current anti-Barbados club members.

    am J this is not the article about, finding a man, getting pregnant etc. Maybe you should try digging up your navel string and let the wonders of modern medicine reproduce your contribution to growing Barbados society.


  40. @livinginB’dos……….Why don’t you just come right out and say that YOU support having all these illegal immigrants in Barbados and that the Bajans are wrong for wanting to get ‘rid’ of them, instead of talking in circles?

  41. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds
    Your response on the Internet traffic is an interesting indicator of what it is to collaborate. (My own data show numbers sugnificantly smaller, so I will not believe the inflated figures. Some could say the same about immigration statistics.) One of the traits of bureaucracies that I have seen but never understood, is the way that people treat information as proprietary. Then again, we know that knowledge is power, and if shared some feel that it somehow weakens the provider. However, it puts exchanges on blogs such as this into interesting perspective. Anancy is alive and well.

    My discussion of the immigration issue is not specific to Barbados, but applies universally. It’s not an academic exercise to ask what is the dimension of the problem? It lets me (and I do not speak for anyone else) know what I am dealing with. In the same way that a vendor complains of Guyanese taking away his customers but when asked he can say that he only knows of one Guyanese vending the same product, I am trying to distinguish between impressions and reality.

    There is a policy that can be put in place to manage migration, but it depends first on the gate keepers doing their jobs: Immigration Department seems not to have done so. It means that those who see an easy route to their economic and financial success from using illegal and cheaper labour facing some consequences for that: I have not read of any construction or agrucultural enterprises that have been sanctioned for using illegal immigrant workers. I have heard a furore about possible illegal Chinese workers on some major project but that seemed to pass after some Ministerial and corporate assurances. I have not read of any housing inspections that have cited landlords for overcrowding.

    Everyone seems to know the places where illicit sex is on sale, yet, in pulling in the sex workers. What do the profiles show? Why is that traffic tolerated and the illegals who work in in deported with haste?
    Barbados is a very small place, we know and are constantly told, yet dealing with things seem to be as difficult as if the place were as vast as Russia. I know each equally well and the inability to solve problems in a small land mass makes no sense and points to a certain complicity at many levels.

    If one is satisfied to ask questions of responsible persons and institutions and then live with no answers, then fine. I think that is apathy.

  42. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    For those really reading, the passage should have read:.

    “Ministerial and corporate assurances. I have not read of any housing inspections that have cited landlords for overcrowding WITH ILLEGAL MIGRANT TENANTS.

    Everyone seems to know the places where illicit sex is on sale, yet, in pulling in the sex workers, WHAT do the profiles show? Why is that traffic tolerated and the illegals who SUPPOSEDLY work in IT NOT deported with haste?”


  43. Adrian HInds wrote “let the wonders of modern medicine reproduce your contribution to growing Barbados society.”

    My reproductions are already making a sterling contribution to Barbados’ society.

    Can you say the same?

    I gone.


  44. @LIB:
    I am not hoarding infomation. It is publicaly available. I have no interest in collaborating with you on anything. Google link popularity and have your fill, it is what i did. What is the utility in discussing global immigration within debates about illegal immigration in Barbados, while at the same time ignoring the details behind the positions for and against what is occuring locally? You have demonstrated your position time and time again. It starts with a dim view of Bajans, so your position on the BARBADOS IMMIGRATION debate and inspite of the fluff (global trends in immigration) could as well been arrived at by sticking your middle finger at us under the pretence of get sense of the winds of positions opposite to those of the pesky bajans.

  45. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Anonymous
    “Why donโ€™t you just come right out and say that YOU support having all these illegal immigrants in Barbados and that the Bajans are wrong for wanting to get โ€˜ridโ€™ of them, instead of talking in circles?”

    But my point says nothing about letting illegal immigrants stay in Barbados. I am not in favour of it at all. What I said was that the problem needs to be tackled from its two sides, and also its magnitude known. Sorry, as an economist, I see the supply (illegals) and demand (all those who use them).

    What I envisage is that if Caricom non-national illegals are not regularised and evicted, that source of supply will be shut off, but with a demand still in place (construction, agriculture, sex, rentals), someones will need to fill that void. There may be enough willing Barbadians, but I suspect not. Otherwise, the demanders may be looking again to retap another supply of illegal immigrants.

    Here’s the farce that I saw in west Africa: illegals (coming to work in diamond and gold mines) were evicted across one border point, but at another, a new stock was coming in. You cannot control what you do not control.


  46. Who said?
    โ€œThe separatist propensities of the East Indian, almost naturally developed a label โ€œApanjaatโ€ meaning โ€œonesโ€ own kind, which the East Indian grew to understand from their earliest years and did not have to repeat it, which is an important point. โ€œApanjaatโ€ became a worry, mainly for the blacks who had nothing to confront it withโ€ฆโ€ฆ.

    Recently departed Richard Allsopp who gave us the Caribbean Dictionary, he was a guyanese, and made it very clear why he left Guyana in 1963

    Who said?
    โ€œWith the Owen Arthur styled Caribbean Single Market and Economy, Barbadians are witnessing the opposite of the vision of the โ€œfounding fathersโ€ of Caribbean Integration. Rather than over populated Barbados providing the vastly under populated Guyana with skilled and productive workers, the Guyanese labor force is being siphoned off to Barbados in a scheme designed to lower the wages of Barbadian workers and produce more profits for the Barbadian capital class.
    David Commisiong who now head some committee called the Coalition for a Humane Amnesty.

    …..Here we find the Pragmatics joining a coalition that can only at this point claim that the new immigration policy has a POTENTIAL TO BE INHUMANE, THAT THEY ARE SUSPICIOUS OF THE REASON FOR THE NEW POLICY IS DRIVEN BY GLOBAL ECONOMICS, AND THAT IT SEEMS TO BE SENDIN A MESSAGE OF NOT WELCOME.

    So we have so called pragmatist reacting to unexplained POTENTIALITIES, SUSPICIONS as to the core reasons for a policy, and PERCEPTIONS not corroborated by facts.

    They want proof of numbers from the GoB and are unwilling to give any for their positions.


  47. @LIB

    Barbadians are NOT against the use of migrant labour. All we want is that an orderly and managed system be placed to match labour supply with demand.

  48. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David

    “Barbadians are NOT against the use of migrant labour. All we want is that an orderly and managed system be placed to match labour supply with demand.”

    I would not be so sure about that. I think a not insignificant segment of Barbadians are against migrant labour. For the jobs that most people can hope to compete for, most of the migrant labour (legal or illegal) is likely to be at lower wages/softer terms and conditions. My impression is that Barbadians are not keen to see such downward pressure on wages. This is a long-standing economic issue.

    I’m not sure, but presume that the ‘labour supply’ you refer to is that made up of nationals. But, the argument suggests having some clear idea of the national labour supply/demand balance, and as this is not a command economy, that happens through price (which is where the ‘illegals’ have leverage).


  49. @LIB……..You never miss an opportunity to mention that you are an economist, so since you always bring it up, why is the world facing economic turmoil now and how will you solve it and how are you single-handedly aiding the Barbados, Jamaican and Guyanese economy right now?

    “For me, the resolution of any problem of illegal immigrants is much less one that depends on them but depends more on those who support, need and use them.”

    Seems like you don’t care that the problem of illegal immigrants is resolved one way or the other,neither do you care that there are illegal immigrants and how they affect Barbados as a whole,you just care about the affect their removal will have on those who depend on them? To sum it up you only care about the law-breakers!

    “They could decide to help to regularise the status of illegal migrants because it is in their self interest to keep the services of these people.”

    The problem here is that of one’s ‘self-interest.’ Barbados did not get to the point where she’s at now because of the self-interest on one or a few!

    Should they regularise all illegal immigrants? And where will you put them? Or should ALL just live live rats with the population bursting at the seams, resulting in societal disintegration?


  50. Let us agree to disagree.

    In the agriculture sector we should have no issues with matching demand to supply given the unwillingness of Bajans to compete on that front.

    For many years the former government used/manipulated the construction sector to fuelled the economy. It has created an artificial/transient demand for labour which would not have been sustainable.

    In these two sectors a visible and orderly approach to matching demand to supply would be acceptable. The Chinese have been operating in Barbados for years but have become embroiled in the current debate.

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