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The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart

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brotherskeptapartFellow blogger Weighed in the Balance has undertaken the ambitious and highly risky task of writing a book which as he terms it “is a comparative analysis of the Bible and the Qur’an, and it assumes that both books are correct.  If God is the principal author of each book, as Christians and Muslims claim, then a comparative analysis should reveal harmony between the principal teachings of both.  This is what I have found.  Hence, Christians and Muslims have been kept apart by their religious leaders who have taught their adherents that God has rejected the other group.” The topic matter was thought to be so contentious that he originally penned his book using a pseudonym.

Phillip’s book is titled Brothers Kept Apart and can be purchased on Amazon.com at a reasonable price. Some members of the BU family have already demonstrated that they are students of the religions. Brother Phillips advises that the book represents 30 years of research and 7 years of critical review and he stands ready to defend his thesis.

It is no secret that the BU household has demonstrated a keen interest in the religions or what some people disparagingly refer to as dogmas. It is a fascinating subject and one which is shrouded in mystery, allegories, parables, fables and some theology  Religion has been used through the ages to edify and destroy man’s existence. Of interest to all through the ages has been the cooption of  religion to pit Islam versus Christianity, East versus West by geo-political motivated groups.

For a synopsis of the book the BU family is welcomed to visit Phillips’s blog. We look forward to a fascinating discussion and take the opportunity to wish him every success.

What he has attempted demonstrates courage of conviction, a characteristic in scarce supply.

.

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1,124 responses to “The Bible And The Qur'an, Brothers Kept Apart”

  1. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    “Denial is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence”

  2. Straight talk Avatar
    Straight talk

    Unfortunately I missed the post in which Bush Tea espoused Christianity.

    In all his posts, to my knowledge, he has strictly adhered to the BBE line and never equated this to the Jewish God.

    I know he will follow this post up, with contradiction, because that’s the way he is.

    From what I can gather from his life experience and thoughtful study, he has concluded that humans have the potential to transcend to a higher plane,

    A plane which offers admittance to a better and more fulfilling life in the engineering union.

    Having the potential is innate, but realising it is characteristically divine.

    I hope this precised BT’s main thrust, as he seems peculiarly reticent about sharing his deep rooted philosophy and its justification with we commoners.

    I get the feeling he is only half heartedly contributing because we all have missed the big farm picture that is so obvious to those who can see.

  3. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Rohan, What facts? The masquerading liars of evolutionary naturalism, who continue to fool people like you, with utter convolutions of facts, NOT evidence, as there is NO true transitional ‘evidence’ every found anywhere in the rock formations on earth.

    Wikipidea is blatantly pro evolution; and the info presented there IS NOT showing one ‘single’ true ‘transitional’ Invertebrate to (fish), nor Fish to (Tretrapods), etc, etc; all those pictured are fully formed from each specie or sub-specie, exactly as they were Created.

    The so-called scientist(s) who submitted this, try to cover up the fact that there are NO true transitional fossils, or living forms, by seeking to ‘twist’ the real meaning of what ‘transitional fossil’ means in true science, “Since all the species are in transition due to natural selection, the very term ‘transitional fossile’ is essentially a misconception.” LIE, LIE, LIE!!!

    The most infamous scientists, the bigest liars of ALL time, are the evolutionary tyrants, they will coin any new pseudo term in order to wriggle out of the facts of evidence as revealed in the fossil record.

    The overwhelming evidence from true honest science, supporting the Creation account as given in Genesis; simply CANNOT be refuted!!!

    And further, no ‘Punctuated equilibium’ or any other fabricated term will EVER give any credence to this devasting HOAX, a lie from the pit of Hell!

    The so-called geological ages, even if they were real, give NO evidence that evolution was occurring. In Fact, all geological formations give amazing evidence of catastrophism in their deposition, in keeping with the Great Flood as described in Genesis 7: 11; 8:2).

    The very existence of fossils, in the great graveyards that are found ALL over the world in the rocks of every so-called geologic age, is ‘prima facie’ evidence of utter catastrophism, that is, the Great Flood that Almighty God brought on every living creature, including mankind, except Noah and his family.

    No other event(s) can explain this amazing evidence for such cataclysmic ‘death’ and destruction, as evidenced from the fossile record.

    In every case, a species does not arise gradually by the gradual transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once, and ‘fully’ formed.

    Evolutionists must of necessity, perform their intellectual and scientific ‘acrobatics’ by then creating such terms, as ‘punctuated equilibrium’ if they wish, or, ‘quantum speciation,’ or ‘hopeful monsters,’ as some prefer. All of his nonsense, false science, is arguing not from evidence, BUT, from a lack of evidence!

    And they have the gall to call this science! This is a unique form of scientific ‘logic’ unheard of, never employed elsewhere in science.

    No wonder there is NO true transitional forms ever found in the fossil record; because, they never existed!!

    The irrefutable evidence are; that both Biblical and scientific, precisely fits special creation!!

    Rohan, for the time being, I’ll just call you ‘ignorant’ but, if you continue on this trend, you’ll then graduate to being a liar like these other ‘transitional’ idiots!!! Are you in transitional stage? Or, are you fully ‘formed’?

  4. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    Zoe and Georgie Porgie,

    Two words:

    Wake Up.

  5. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe, You are fully formed

  6. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @ST,

    Yes I am aware the beliefs of BT are not easily pigeon holed. We have had quite a lot of discussion earlier.

    His beliefs as much as I can make of them of which I think you gave a reasonable account actually are quite close to basic tenets of gnostic christianity which existed in the early christian period before being crushed by the roman church for being heretics.

    Good thing we have BT with us now.

  7. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe conveniently forgets the fossil record is only part of the evidence for evolution……

    “Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.”

    — Francis Collins, geneticist and a christian

    Is Francis Collins one of the world’s leading scientists a liar or an idiot?

    Are you Zoe, a liar, an idiot or just plain deluded?

  8. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Rohan

    I am well awake, and waiting patiently for the UPPERTAKER! HE’S COMING SOON! With Joy I welcome his apearing. Praise God! HE’S COMING SOON!

    You chaps can believe what you wish. I will continue to believe what I believe, because it makes much more sense to me.

    For I know WHOM I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day!

  9. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @ GP

    How soon is soon? Has he not been coming for 2000 years? Have the Jews not been waiting for their Messiah even longer? I guess for some people there is nothing greater than faith and hope.

  10. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    MME

    You gone quiet on me. I just want you to answer one question. Why would you assume that the guinea pig was born from an egg that came out of nowhere?

    Isn’t it more logical to assume that the energy came from somewhere? Is it not also logical to say that where it came from you don’t know.

    We are able to see the guinea pig and the egg it came from, the sperm that fertilised it, yet we don’t know where that came from or which came first, the egg or the guinea pig, but that does not stop us from knowing how the guinea pig formed in the egg, burst through the egg, grew and how its body parts are made up and positioned.

    If you start with a ball of compact energy and go forward, then I go back from the matter of how the compact energy got there in the first place and posit that it would be better explained as forces for which we have no account.

    To close the door here without concrete proof would be to close the door on knowledge that could be gained. Furthermore, I argue that taking this position in no way dismisses or otherwise interferes with the theory that starts with the big bang.

  11. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @Pat

    He is late according to………

    “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” — Matthew16:28

    “But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.” — Luke 9:27

    “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.” — Matthew 23:36

    “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” — Matthew 24:34

    “Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Matthew 26:64

    “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.” — Mark 9:1

    “Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.” — Mark 13:30

    “And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” — Mark 14:62

    “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” — Luke 21:32

    “Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” — John 21:22

  12. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Still late according the apostles………..

    –

    “Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ … that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” — 1 Corinthians 1:7-8

    “But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none.” — 1 Corinthians 7:29

    “That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. — Philippians 1:10

    “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:17

    “I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” — 1 Thessalonians 5:23

    “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son….” — Hebrews 1:2

    “But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” — Hebrews 9:26

    “Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” — 1 Peter 1:20

    “But the end of all things is at hand.” — 1 Peter 4:7

    “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18

  13. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @Pat,

    But for sure coming soon……..

    The Lord is at hand.” — Philippians 4:5

    “For the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8

    “For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.” — Hebrews 10:37

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. — Revelation 1:1

    “The time is at hand.” — Revelation 1:3

    “Behold, I come quickly.” — Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:12

    “Surely I come quickly.” — Revelation 22:20

  14. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    LOL @ Not Saved.

    Thanks for those posts. I mean, Jesus said he was coming back before the GENERATION was over!

    2,000 years later and these idiots are still waiting. I bet you they have some explanation for this too.

    It’s like someone telling you they will be back in 5 minutes, and 10 years later you’re still looking out the window for their arrival.

    Not even a child would fall for this. Anyhow, I’m sure the Xtians have some “good” explanation for this too.

    Seriously, you guys are embarrasing.

  15. J Avatar
    J

    Dear Rohan:

    “A thousand ages in thy sight are but an evening gone.”

  16. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Thanks J, I thought we were going to get the standard apologetic…..

    “with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.”

    Thanks for something a little more refreshing.

  17. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL… no ROK, my faith does not stop me from opening doors… it actually inspires me to keep opening them… as it did with those scientists who opened MOST of the ‘doors’ that have gotten us where we are today… but no need to repeat mysefl… read my posts of April 26, 2009 at 5:59 pm and April 26, 2009 at 9:49 pm.

  18. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    My belief in a ‘closed system’ is based largely on faith… faith that the universe has an absolute beginning and by extension an ultimate cause. I am almost certain that this is a position that cannot be intellectually proven or disproven, based in part on my interpretation of Godel’s incompleteness theorem and its implications.

    So for example, even if I am wrong in my opinion that events beyond the Big Bang singularity are not observable or testable (after all, the proof for Hawking’s quantum theory of gravity may very well take us beyond that singularity), I expect that this would simply open up a new set of questions to be answered… similar to ROK’s position, except he prefers to have faith in a never ending series of ‘doors’ while I have faith that God is behind the FIRST door.

    Faith is required to believe in an absolute beginning (synonymous with a closed system)… faith is also required to believe in an infinite series of theories or causes/effects (synonymous with an open system). The noncommittal or agnostic position is also available, but then the debate is likely to be of little interest to you.

    Quite frankly, I am surprised that Rohan and Not Saved so eagerly support the “closed system”, as this necessitates belief in an ultimate cause. You two like you are closet Christians yuh. 🙂

  19. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … btw… God is also behind the LAST door. 🙂

    There are really only three intellectually honest positions in this debate…

    1… those who accept that the Divine cannot be proven or disproven but have faith in its existence.
    2… those who accept that the Divine cannot be proven or disproven but have faith in its non-existence.
    3… those who accept that the Divine cannot be proven or disproven, and are noncommittal on its existence or nonexistence.

    IMHO, if your world view does not fit into one of these three categories, you either haven’t thought it through properly or you are an apatheist :-).

    Which one of these categories do you fit into Rohan and Not Saved?

  20. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    ROFL….RLMAO……thanks for that good one MME…….Closet Christians….LOL !!

    Cant wait for the ‘coming out’.

    BTW… you have really summed up this thread….I am #3 !!

  21. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    MME

    I notice that all your positions begin with accepting the divine. In that case I do not fit into any of your options and I have thought it through for over 30 years.

    Now this may get BT pissed off but what is the “Divine”? If by the Divine you mean God, yes the existence of God can be proved, given my definition of God being a mortal. Hence the notion of divine associated with god does not exist for me if divine is supposed to lead back to the Creator and the Creation.

    In as much as I accept the illuminati or the imperialists as living people trying to control the world is as much as I accept God. Even in reading the bible, there is too much which points to God as a mortal for me to believe that your God is immortal and creator of the heavens, including the earth.

    An Apatheist? What is that? Another pigeon hole? You cannot define me for me. To believe in God is not an option when it comes to the Creator or the Creation. Actually to believe in God as the Creator is virtual blasphemy as we know the word. You are ascribing to an entity, what it is not.

    It’s like paying homage to the king. That myth was debunked eons ago. For me, I believe in the real creator, you believe in a false one; demonstrated in the bible that your god is false; only if you would come out of the fairy tale mode.

    Why do you insist that earth is a closed system? For me it is not. It is influenced by the net effect of the rest of the universe and certainly earth affects others.

    Similarly, this universe cannot be closed except by the minds of men. Hence, for me, effectively it is not. Of course, if you think it is, you effectively imprison yourself. If you think it is not, then you reach beyond it. Thinking that it is closed does not make it closed.

    I put it to you that in the absence of mankind being able to prove or disprove the beginning of creation, it would be dangerous to close it. Even if you say that God is behind the last door, you have to define that God that is behind the closed door. Where did god come from? More interesting is the fact that saying that God is behind the last door is saying that something existed before the creation. You may call it God because you don’t understand it.

    Even for the big bang theory, there is no doubt that the energy came from somewhere. If you say that something made the energy which then converted to matter, then whatever made or generated the energy existed. Don’t get mixed up, there is a difference between this (the Creator) and the God of the Bible which is a political (power) character.

  22. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    MME, let me help you:
    There are really only three intellectually honest positions in this debate…

    1… those who accept that SANTA CLAUS cannot be proven or disproven but have faith in its existence.
    2… those who accept that SANTA CLAUS cannot be proven or disproven but have faith in its non-existence.
    3… those who accept that SANTA CLAUS cannot be proven or disproven, and are noncommittal on its existence or nonexistence.

    IMHO, if your world view does not fit into one of these three categories, you either haven’t thought it through properly or you are an apatheist :-).

    Which one of these categories do you fit into MME?

  23. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    And Santa and God share certain qualities that we know to be impossible:
    Santa says he can be at every house in the world in one night, and God takes it further by saying he can be everywhere at once.
    We have no more evidence for God’s claim than we have for Santa’s Claim.

    Put another way, any evidence you can provide for God’s claim I can provide for Santa’s claim.

    Given this, you have to either

    A) Accept both claims or

    B) Reject both claims.

    But Christians do this:
    C) Arbitrarily choose one over the other

    If you chose A or B at least I can say that you’re logically consistent.

    Christians choose C and then spend the rest of their lives trying to convince themselves that they have a reason for their choice beyond the brainwashing they received as a child.

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ Pat
    How soon is soon?

    I do not know. But what I do know from my understanding of the Word is that “all the dots are lining up!” What I do know from my understanding of the Word is that many of the unfulfilled prophesies concerning the second coming that are preparatory to both the parousia (rapture) or the epiphanea (glorious appearing) are being fulfilled before our very eyes.

    Has he not been coming for 2000 years?
    Yes he has. His first coming was predicted also……..and he came right on time! And died right on time according to Daniel’s prophesy.

    Have the Jews not been waiting for their Messiah even longer?
    Yes they have. And they did not recognize him when he did the first time. Many of them don’t recognize him even now. But they will recognize him at the glorious appearing.

    I guess for some people there is nothing greater than faith and hope.

    That might be so. What is better to have faith and hope in Christ? Or in Obama and David Thompson and the other so called leaders?

    As I said before……… I know WHOM I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day!

    @ NS
    He might be late according to your way of thinking. But I am sure he will be on time. It was nice of you to list all of the texts you could find on the doctrine of the second coming. You didn’t get them all of course, and as usual, you have lifted them out of their context. In fact one or two you quoted have even been fulfilled. But the Word has a way of speaking to those who would believe. So that’s nice of you to post these verses.

    @ Rohan

    Jesus did say that he was coming back before a GENERATION was over!

    He called it “this” generation.
    QUESTION? WHICH generation is “this” generation? WHEN did “this” generation begin? To WHOM is he referring? Has “this” generation begun yet? How long is a generation?

    Can you answer these questions? It should make hilarious reading.

    See what happens when you take a text out of its context? You make it a pretext?

  25. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re Christians choose C and then spend the rest of their lives trying to convince themselves that they have a reason for their choice beyond the brainwashing they received as a child.”

    What about those believers who never heard of Christ before they became adults and thus got no “brainwashing?”

  26. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    God said, “Rape the next woman you find”
    (Oh you guys took it out of context)

    Jesus said “some of you here won’t see death before I come back”
    (Oh you guys took it out of context)

    Jesus said “Hey, I’ll be back before THIS generation is over”
    (Well, you don’t know what he meant by “THIS”)

    Georgie, at some point you have to recognize how ridiculous this is. You have handed in your ability to think for yourself, so the only thing your brain can do now is go through these mental gymnastics to make this stuff work.

    As for your question about those who converted to Christianity as adults, they were subject to brainwashing too.

    Brainwashing knows no age limit. Look at how many scientologists they are in the world.

    Any person who gives up his/her right to think for themselves are easy prey regardless of age.

    They are those who gave it up the ability to think for themselves as a child (which is understandable) but never seek to regain that ability as an adult (which is in-excusable).

    You’re a prime example of the latter.

  27. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    When I hear folk scoffing about the Lord’s second coming, I know that this passage from 2 Peter 3:3-18 is a true prophesy.

    3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    17. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    18. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

  28. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @ROK……So you don’t accept that the imperialistic illuminati are the ones ‘trying’ to rule and take over this world?

    @GP…….Now if the heavens will pass away with a great noise and the elements melt with a fervent heat, which heaven are you preparing to go to and in the meantime where will YOU, ZOE and MME and all the others be while this destruction is going on? My dear GP, don’t you realise that all this ‘prophecy’ is nothing more than long-term planning by the same imperialistic illuminati that ROK does not accept as the ‘rulers’ of this world now? But not to worry for there’s is some hope right here because:

    ‘That pyramid of imposture reared by Rome,
    All of cement for an eternal home,
    Must crumble back to earth; and every gust
    Shall revel in the desert of its dust;
    And when the prison of the immortal mind,
    Hath fallen to set free the bound and the blind,
    No more shall life be one long dread of death,
    Humanity shall breathe with fuller breath,
    Expand in spirit and in stature rise,
    To match its birthplace of the earth and skies.’

    Hotep!

  29. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ Rohan

    Jesus did say that he was coming back before a GENERATION was over!

    He called it “this” generation.

    QUESTION? WHICH generation is “this” generation? WHEN did “this” generation begin? To WHOM is he referring? Has “this” generation begun yet? How long is a generation?

    Read the text again, in its context, along with the collateral texts in Mark & Luke. Jesus was asked three questions that occasioned what is called the Olivet Discourse. Two of these questions are answered in Mathew 24.

    Read it again and see if it helps (of course you need the Holy Spirit to help)

    You are in such a haste to contradict the Word of God, and condemn me and others who believe it as brainwashed idiots that you are talking about stuff which you do not know.

    The Olivet Discourse is the major prophesy in Scriptures, because with only a single mention to what was written before (in Daniel), and no mention of what was to be written afterwards, he gives the KEY to understanding all of prophesy.

    All I did is asked you to find the answers to some questions.

    The difference between you and serious Bible scholars is that when we find a difficult passage or word, after applying Coopers law, we then check a Strong’s concordance and Vine’s or Wuest to ascertain the meaning of the word in the Greek, and to find out where else it is used, and its various uses. We just dont pontificate.

    The solution to your lack of understanding of the verse you took out of context is ” WHICH generation is THIS generation? To WHOM is Jesus referring? Of WHAT EVENT is he speaking? The Rapture? The Glorious Appearing? Which Nation or group of people is he speaking to in the primary interpretation of the passage? (Not the secondary application of the passage?) How do we know this?

  30. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    “But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.” — Luke 9:27

    OH REALLY?

    I don’t know if to laugh or cry for you poor folks. Okay Georgie Porgie, he’s coming, Jesus is coming okay? He’ll be here tomorrow.

  31. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ Hopi who wrote GP…….Now if the heavens will pass away with a great noise and the elements melt with a fervent heat, which heaven are you preparing to go to and in the meantime where will YOU, ZOE and MME and all the others be while this destruction is going on?

    The term “heavens” in 2 Peter 3:10 refers from the CONTEXT to the earth’s atmosphere and the “second heaven” in which the stars and the planets hang, not God’s abode (the “third heaven”). Peter’s argument is centered around the fact that God judged the world that was (the antediluvian age) by water, ie the flood of Noah’s day; and that in a coming day, he will judge the current world by fire. It is not hard to see then that the term “heavens” in 2 Peter 3:10 refers from the context to the earth’s atmosphere and the “second heaven” in which the stars and the planets hang, not God’s abode (the “third heaven”).

    Peter predicted that a time would come when scoffers would indeed be questioning the apparent tardiness in the Lord’s second coming. And he gives this word of assurance to the believers in the diaspora to whom he wrote. The punch line of his argument is of course the key verse- verse 9, which says “ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

    He is saying here ‘ Don’t listen to the scoffers, but expect them to scoff. But the truth of the matter is NOT that the Lord has forgotten his promise to return, because he has not forgotten at all! He is just giving them more time to repent!

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    “But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE the kingdom of God.” — Luke 9:27
    OH REALLY?

    Oh Yes!
    Peter James and John DID have a glimpse of the kingdom on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17. They saw the King representing the kingdom in all his glory! Peter talks about it in 2 Peter chap 1.

    Note he did not say they would ENTER the kingdom.

    You see you are so intent to see contradictions, that you are blind to the harmony of the Word, which you have NOT really studied.

  33. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Rohan

    See if this helps you with the CONTEXT of the Olivet Discourse.

    This how the OLivet Discourse begins

    Mathew Chapter 24
    1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

    2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. ( THIS OCCURED IN AD 70 WHEN TITUS DESTROYED JERUSALEM. This prediction was literally fulfilled; and gave proof that Jesus was a prophet according to the rules of the test of a true prophet as given in Deuteronomy 18.)

    3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    Questions
    # 1 Tell us, when shall these things be? (not answered in Mathew) and

    #2 what shall be the sign of thy coming?, and

    # 3 of the end of the world (or age) ?

    4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, …………………

    Question #3 is answered before #2

    The key words are “WHEN” and “THEN”

  34. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Rohan, Not Saved, et all, are all great examples of the living ‘Dead’ people that walk this earth daily; awaiting the ultimate ‘Death’ absolute seperation from Almighty God’s in everlasting, conscious misery and torment!

    The Lamp of the Body.

    “The lamp of the body is the EYE. If therefore your EYE is good, your whole body will be full of light. But, if your eye is BAD, your whole body will be full of DARKNESS. If therefore the light that IS IN YOU, is DARKNESS, how great is that DARKNESS.” ( Matt. 6:22,23) emphasis added.

    This description given by Jesus, fits you guys/girls perfectly!

  35. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    “Rohan, Not Saved, et all, are all great examples of the living ‘Dead’ people that walk this earth daily; awaiting the ultimate ‘Death’ absolute seperation from Almighty God’s in everlasting, conscious misery and torment!”
    ***
    Zoe, you’re right, everlasting, conscious, misery, and torment. Sounds like what you would expect from a God that loves me soo much.

    If I had a son that disobeyed me I wouldn’t set him on fire…but that’s just me.

    You can have your maniacal God, you deserve each other.

  36. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Rohan… wha ’Santa’ do you as a child dat got you so bitter? LOL

    When you ask questions, you expect brief answers… sometimes requesting a simple yes or no. I ask you a simple question and you went ‘Zoe’ pun me.

    Regarding your question to me at 9:20am, my answer would be option 2. Could you (and Not Saved if still there) answer mine now?

    As far as replacing the Divine with Santa, perhaps I should have provided my definition of the Divine… “that than which no greater can be thought”. In other words, my concept is that the Divine is equivalent to (or exceeds) the greatest power that the human mind is capable of conceiving.

    Do you understand now why replacing the ‘Divine’ with ‘Santa’ in a discussion like this is nonsensical? Unless of course concepts like Santa, or unicorns, or your mind-reading polkadot lion, represent the extent of your cognitive reach.

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Rohan

    The Word says that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels…….not for man.

    When man sinned, man apparently earned the same fate as the devil and his angels.

    As you say, Christians have been brainwashed and accept the edicts of the Bible. You dont agree with the Bible’s position.

    Can you tell us what you would do if you were in God’s position. How would you or how should a hoily God respond to the sin of mankind?

  38. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    “MME I notice that all your positions begin with accepting the divine.”
    ——————

    LOL… ROK, read my positions again… maybe a little slower next time.

  39. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Apatheist?

    Its just a play on the word apathy… LOL

    cuh dear… Hopi send ROK some uh dem poetry books nuh. 🙂

  40. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hopi

    “@ROK……So you don’t accept that the imperialistic illuminati are the ones ‘trying’ to rule and take over this world?”

    Like you reading with your eyes shut.

  41. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    Georgie Porgie, if you think that the only way to handle disobedient “children” is to set them on fire, why don’t you set your own children on fire?

    Can you love someone and because they disobey you for

    100 years,

    you set them on fire for

    100000000000000000000 years (lol, let’s just call this eternity)

    It’s such a laughable thing to consider that it makes me wonder how you could not only believe it, but also defend it.

  42. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    MME

    Tell me what I am missing because I am not accepting the divine? Define Divine. This is what I interpret you to be saying:

    “those who accept that the Divine cannot be proven or (cannot be) disproven..”

    I am saying that I do not accept the divine so it is not a case of “proven or disproven”; it does not exist. Just like there is no “Divine” right of kings to rule the earth. How is this intellectually dishonest?

    Please don’t send me back up there through GP’s long posts anymore. Just tell me you don’t understand where I am coming from and ask me to explain a bit further.

  43. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Rohan

    “Okay Georgie Porgie, he’s coming, Jesus is coming okay? He’ll be here tomorrow.”

    He is already here Rohan.

  44. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    MME
    So your answer to my question is number 2? You reject the notion that God is omnipresent ?
    ****

    To answer your question, this would be the closest, which was your number 2:

    … those who accept that SANTA CLAUS cannot be proven or disproven but have faith in its non-existence.
    ***
    But a caveat: There are two options:
    A) Believing something does not exist
    B) Having a lack of belief in the existence of something

    A and B are not the same.

    In addition, faith is “believing in something for which there is no evidence”.

    It involves taking an active stand, rather than the passive default position that everyone “should” carry about an argument until they are presented with evidence.

    So your use of the word “faith”, while slick, is actually quite useless.

  45. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    MME

    “my definition of the Divine… “that than which no greater can be thought”. In other words, my concept is that the Divine is equivalent to (or exceeds) the greatest power that the human mind is capable of conceiving.”

    I cannot accept this definition of divine. This is what I mean by Christians trying to place everything within the context of christianity and stealing the world’s culture in order to create intellectual blockage.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the word “divine” means related to God. To be more precise, your God. No more than talking about the “sanctum sanctorum”. Here is what the wiki says and I am only quoting the wiki because this is how I know the word:

    “The root of the words (divine and divinity) is literally ‘Godlike’ (from the Latin ‘Deus’, cf. Dyaus, closely related to Greek ‘Zeus’, Divan in Persian and Deva in Sanskrit), but the use varies significantly depending on which god is being discussed. This article outlines the major distinctions in the conventional use of the terms…”

    FURTHER:
    “Divinity in monotheistic faiths always carries connotations of goodness, beauty, beneficence, justice, and other positive, pro-social attributes. In these faiths there is an equivalent cohort of malefic supranormal beings and powers, such as demons, devils, afreet, etc., which are not conventionally referred to as divine; demonic is often used instead. Pantheistic and polytheistic faiths make no such distinction; gods and other beings of transcendent power often have complex, ignoble, or even irrational motivations for their acts. Note that while the terms demon and demonic are used in monotheistic faiths as antonyms to divine, they are in fact derived from the Greek word daimón (δαίμων), which itself translates as divinity.”

    Now you would like to move “Divinity” from its know usage to define it as something else. This just demonstrates how the myth is perpetrated. bits and pieces get added on all the time at the whim and fancies of the zealous or jealous… who trying to prove to the world (through emotion) that their “BELIEF” is fact.

    Science has certainly not won this round when you can come with such fallibility. You people don’t understand. You have changed the thing to suit you, but I put it to you that the way you understand religion today is not how the makers, pillars and crafters of the religion understood it. They were clear that an entity which was mortal was designated as god. You have gone astray by thinking that God has to be that natural force that made the universe and which is part of you and me and everything else.

    For Christianity, God is an external factor and is said to have control over this power in the same way that you have control over your car when you drive it. What do you think, “Peace be still” means? They marvelled at Christ’s ability to command nature. Hope you get the gist.

  46. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hopi

    Let me see if I can rid the sentence of any ambiguity:

    “In as much as I (do) accept the illuminati or the imperialists as living people trying to control the world is as much as I accept God (as being among those jostling for control of the earth).”

  47. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL Rohan… that ‘2’ you reworded and chose was not one of the options I provided, but I have given up on expecting a straight answer from you. If you still can’t discern between the concepts of Santa and the Divine, then we will probably never understand each other.

    Rok… the definition I provided for Divine is the one I meant… if it makes you more comfortable, substitute the word “Wdgrf” using the same definition wherever you see Divine in my posts. 🙂

  48. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    MME,
    I changed the word Divine to Santa Claus..that’s all I changed.

    The concepts as far as I’m concerned and indistinguishable and interchangeable.

    Like I said in an earlier post, any evidence you can provide for God, I can provide for Santa Claus.

    Either way, take my answer as if I had not reworded it.

    My point about your use of the word “faith” stands. Faith is irrational. To express a lack of belief in something for which you have no evidence is the rational, default position and does not rely on “faith”.

    We both know why you tried to use that word.

  49. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    MME

    Now that is a problem. You are taking the word Divine to higher heights than it was originally intended to mean.

    What poetry I need to understand your coinage of the word apatheism? You underestimate me. That is good. All I told you is that you can’t label me. It is a nasty habit and intended to degrade.

  50. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Francis Collins, as one of the world’s leading scientists, does not exclude him from being also, a liar and an idiot; as we see demonstrted all the time!

    Brilliance is no automatic pathway to honest, logical, cogent conclusions, which the glaring ‘evidence’ screams, Intelligent Design!!! Confirmed by millions and mutiplied millions of fossils, over and over again, each and every time, appearing ‘abruptly’ FULLY FORMED, for the FOSSILS, Still SAY NO! NO! NO!, and will continue to SAY NO!!!

    “The Great God who formed everything. Gives the fool his hire and the transgressor his wages. As a dog returns to his own vomit, so a FOOL repeats his folly.” (Prov. 26: 10,11).

    “Go from the presence of a foolish man. When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way, But the FOLLY of FOOLS is deceit.” (Prov. 14:7).

    “Professing to be wise, they became fools.” ( Rom. 1:22).

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