Since the 1970s both Barbados Labour Party (BLP) and Democratic Labour Party (DLP) have been promising Barbadians that integrity legislation. Fifty years later Barbadians fully appreciate the adage a promise is comfort for a fool.
Can the BU intelligentsia explain to this blogmaster why the Integrity in Public Life Bill 2020 failed to pass the Upper House today?
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Well….apart from the brouhaha with the judges and the new bill to save minority criminals from justice and jail time for their crimes AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE, if Mia thinks she is shoving Cheltenham into any chief justice position who still has a huge mountain of CASES still lingering in the Supreme Court as well as Haynes who has an even LARGER MOUNTAIN and REFUSES to adhere to any instructions from the judges and absolutely refuses to complete any personal injury cases, disenfranchising and discriminating against injured people, leaving them to suffer for years when the cases are simple and can easily be settled and completed…without hearing something from their Black victims, she gotta be goddamn mad….and need psychiatric help….
@ Vincent
You are right. But these optics are hypnotising. Ordinary people think they are impressive when in fact they are just theatre, as you say. I am sure you have noticed on BU the narrative usually goes down a side track away from the substance. Nonsense about judicial independence as if that has anything to do with integrity.
I still cannot understand why you need legislation to tell people they must behave with integrity. Implicit in that is that if there is no legislation then I cannot behave as I like since it is within the law. What jungle do we live in.
When you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. Ralph Gonsalves has fought tooth and nail to stop the same legislation in SVG. Introduced years ago as a bill by the NDP opposition, Gonsalves has ensured it never got throught the house. He said if it was passed no one would want a public job. In the meantime he has got stinking rich of parliamentry pay, or thats all we know of?
Keep him out of your politics he is venum.
@ Hal Austin at 9 :39 AM
Yes. I have noticed the attempts to shift focus. BU is impoverished by it.
“On the other hand, he argued that Black entrepreneurs, whose wealth dates back no more than three generations are often more risk-averse because they are in peril of depleting their entire family inheritances.”
what Marshall meant to say is the Black entrepreneurs in Barbados ARE NOT allowed to steal their own tax dollars and pension money by the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS…like the minority criminal cartels are..hence the reason for a remediation bill so these fraudulent crooks can escape justice…
if Black people were allowed access to their OWN money and not BARRED by the colonial parliamentary slaves every time, they would then have no fear or risk of “depleting entire family inheritances”
Vincent
The electorate called for IL?
@Vincent
You are saying our own Senator Caswell was a willing participant in the charade? We think not!
@VC
I am mostly surprised at your cynicism, we clamour for laws and then we opine that they are not going to be enforced anyway, don’t you believe at some point Gov’t or someone will step up and do the right thing? I am amused that the English correspondence will state that there are multiple laws in Blighty dealing with official corruption and then state that he doesn’t see why there is a need for laws to tell people “they must behave with integrity”. Is he only saying that to Bajans and did he ever direct an op-ed to the Brits about his thoughts? He must be living in an alternative paradise, laws in respect of integrity have been around for thousands of years the one which we mostly subscribe to is the one that Moses brought down from the Mount but Hammurabi and others before him had their say.
I have to agree with the sentiment “we all want to go to heaven but no one wants to die’ there are no perfect laws, there are potential holes in every bit of legislation but we soldier on, however you and others can continue to support the status quo.
@Sargeant
This is an interesting opinion worthy of further comment. The blogmaster sides with the view an abstention should be recorded as NO. Why should they be allowed to sit on a fence?
@ Hal Austin August 6, 2020 9:00 AM
My proposals are NOT fasict. I simply suggest what our government should do to DEFEND democracy.
The problem is the Senate, the Senate alone. It is a racist relict of the colonial past. Today the opposition abuses the Senate without ANY democratic legitimation. THAT is a fascist move.
Did anybody vote for the outspoken, troublesome so-called “senator” and others? I do not know a single person in Barbados.
Therefore I repeat my suggestion for US sanctions against said so-called “senators” opposing the bill. The measures shall include deportation of their relatives from the US back to Barbados or elsewhere, blocking any visa permit to the US, VISA, Mastercard and AE credit cards, international bank transactions and using the USD as currency.
@ Tron
Fascist policies to protect democracy? Which world do you live in? Plse explain the role of the second chamber in our bicameral parliament?
Sometimes I think what you say is funny; other times I think you make Fascist proposal under the guise of humour. Cut out the cheap laughs, we have enough unintentional idiots on BU who think a laugh is all life is about.
@ Hal Austin August 6, 2020 11:12 AM
My proposal is no joke. Surely Lord Dale and his knights are considering the same now.
We need to abolish the Senate. It is an expensive, outdated institution with ZERO democratic legitimation. Its sole purpose was to secure the power of the plantation class. – Of course, the Senate has not to be included in its abolishment, since all senators are highly biased here for obvious reasons. The Prime Minister and the lower chamber alone have the democratic right to abolish the Senate.
I fear, if the Senate goes on like this, we will soon face riots.
@Tron
What is the role of the second chamber in a bicameral political system? I am not talking specifically about Barbados, but in any liberal democratic system.
@Sargeant
Heard a caller to the radio this afternoon saying former minister and Senator Lucille MOE was absent from the chamber yesterday. Another thing to make you go hmmm.
@ David BU
For 90 % of my interventions every word carries weight. Please refer to the part where I said “wittingly”
and “unwittingly”. If one studies most people for long enough one knows what action to take for the person to behave in a certain way.70 % of the time. It was a gamble and the expected response took place. The intended result was achieved.
@ Sergeant
I love surprising you.
I do not clamour for laws, that I know from experience, will be full of loop holes and that no one seriously plan to enforce. Like Hal ,I happen to know that there is enough legislation on our books that would be a deterrent to the corrupt acts that we whine about on this blog. But they were not enforced. Over and above that, a democratic society based on the Brittish Legal system rely on the honour system. In that system one depends on the spirit of the law not on what is on the law books. I think we are borrowing and mixing our system with that of the litigious culture of the American System. If there is no specific law on the books , it is legal.
@ David BU
Abstention from a vote means for most people: “I do not have enough information to take a position on this matter before us. Let those people with all the relevant information vote.” It is neither a ” no” nor an “yes”. It is a democratic right to abstain. You are indeed a fascist.
This is not the case with Moore and Rodgers Vincent from their contributions.
WURA,
The first problem is the declaration of the assets. To whom are they declared?
Start wrong. End wrong.
And further, a toothless tiger cannot bite and the remediation aspect declaws him.
Bare mock sport in de parliament!
there will an integrity commission or body that will be set up to hold, deal with the declaration of assets and investigate any anomalies or untoward declarations.
as i understand it some assets have already been declared but are being keep unopened in a safe in parliament for when the Commission comes into being.
this is a good ACT except for the exclusion of Judges. wholeheartedly i back this ACT and the set up of the Commission.
@Greene
Have a read of this link. Our space is not dissimilar to Trinidad and Tobago.
https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/judges-escape-integrity-net-6.2.333184.a14ca43235
i have read it David. it is short on the legal reasoning for the exclusion and on the face of it seems to be relying on a 2004 assurance from the AG Jeremie in parliament that Judges and Magistrates are exempt from the ACT.
i am not sure whether the AG is so stating from a legal standpoint or as a matter of policy?
I keep telling people that integrity can’t be legislated, that one can only punish crimes after the fact, and that there are already plenty of laws which CAN punish thieving, but we have long CHOSEN NOT TO APPLY those laws to the political/economic class and other assorted big shots. So we feel like we need another law, and another law and another law.
Now see why I tell wunna? We can’t even manage to to pass the other law that we feel that we need.
So Integrity in Public Life has still not been legislated.
But wunna think that I is a simpleton.
I gone.
Greene,
I only read of the safe-keeping aspect. How long has the idea of unfettered assess by the Integrity Commission been in the bill?
By the way, the governor of Ohio will be in isolation for 14 days after testing positive for the corona virus. Where did we get this five day standard?
Donna
Cummins did not test positive. So what is de relevance of DeWine?
@Greene
From listening to some of the debate there is a concern about the need to ring fence judges given their roles are enshrined in the Constitution.
@David
I was wondering whether Ms. Moe was one of the absentees, perhaps I misread that situation and it may be a case of wounded pride.
To abstain is to cop out, Ms. Moore is a Union chief one would have thought that this matter was of importance to the workers as for the Rev. would he be on the side of the money changers?
Donna,
i dont know what you mean by this “How long has the idea of unfettered assess by the Integrity Commission been in the bill?” but i hope this helps
https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/07/30/senator-integrity-commission-could-be-toothless-tiger/
here is a draft in its earliest iteration. it hasnt changed much form the present bill
https://www.blp.org.bb/draft-integrity-commission-bill/
this is the make up of the commission from the above draft bill
INTEGRITY COMMISSION
Establishment of Integrity Commission
(1) There is hereby established an Integrity Commission for Barbados.
The Commission shall consist of—
a chartered or certified accountant of at least ten years standing appointed by the Governor General after consultation with any body which in his opinion represents chartered or certified accountants in Barbados;
a person who has held or [holds] the office of Judge in a Court of Record or Supreme Court in any part of the Commonwealth appointed by the Governor General, after consultation with the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition.
a person who has been admitted as an attorney under the Legal Profession Act and whose name has been entered on the Roll of Attorneys with at least ten years standing, appointed by the Governor General, after consultation with the Council of the Barbados Bar Association;
a member of the clergy, appointed by the Governor General after consultation with the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition;
a person appointed by the Governor General on the advice of the Prime Minister;
a person appointed by the Governor General on the advice of the Leader of the Opposition.
the bill further speaks to the issue of investigators etc who are going to do the actually work of the commission.
i think this is a necessary step in our development. i support the ACT. and i was very disappointed that the DLP did not pass this ACT when it promised to do so. it still vexes me.
contrary to popular belief all our laws that deal with public corruption are archaic and do not adequately cover public corruption as we know it now
The question stands, after three years of the Bill being in committee why would it have failed to garner support before parliament was prorogued. What are we doing? A government senator just confirmed 10 government Senators votes yes, the president cannot vote and two independents abstained.
This is a dark day in the work of parliament. For once the Bill got through to the Upper Chamber and opposition and independents had the opportunity to make it happen. The Bill will never satisfy everyone.
the issue of the Judges and the inclusion of civil servants seem to be the more vexing matter. save for an understanding over the role of Judges and how the construction impacts that wrt integrity legislation i would include all of them
Why would the government include them if it was a court matter in a jurisdiction next door that mirrors ours?
@Donna
The quarantine period seems to fluctuate, we don’t know what we don’t know the standard social distancing was established at six feet since then tests have shown that it should be more than six feet, the standard isolation period was said to be 14 days but Prince Charles was out of isolation in 7 days.
Seems like Caswell decided to err on the side of caution but he had a good point when he said Bostic said he was cleared but opted to stay away from the Press Conf. while Cummins came to the chamber with a letter of excuse.
@ Tron August 6, 2020 11:18 AM
You’re comparing apples and oranges. The United States Senators are elected by the people. The so-called “senator” Caswell F. and the other dishonourable gentlemen were appointed by the opposition which aims to destroy the whole society.
It would not surprise me, after this tragic day, if the opposition put up money launderers, drug dealers or even their own senators as candidates for the next elections.
Therefore, I stick to my proposal that the US must impose drastic sanctions on the opposing senators.
@David
unless the court decision or matter is one that would impact the laws of Bim but from what i have read i am not sure of that. i still dont understand how the constitutional role of a judge impacts integrity legislation as described in this bill. i have not read the constitution wrt judges
i would have included them and amend the law later when the matter is settled
@ David August 6, 2020 1:47 PM
It is now obvious that Barbadians cannot govern themselves even more 50 years after independence. All the talk about emancipation and about local education cannot hide the fact that Barbados has fallen into decline, not only economically but also morally. Yes, Barbados is now a failed state, since corruption is de facto legalised – all thanks to the opposition.
In future, the outspoken so-called “senator” should keep his big mouth SHUT instead of talking about integrity. The man is a first-rate hypocrite. The people now know that he is fully committed to Donville’s cause.
Offside: I would like to record here for our leader Mia Mottley, Lord Dale and Enuff, that I have cautioned for years against the Senate and its destructive senators, especially the outspoken so-called “senator”.
@Enuff August 6, 2020 6:48 AM “I said yday we waan go heaven but…”
We don’t want to die.
Who wants to die?
Stupssseee!!!
@Greene
I agree.
Canada learnt several years ago in a public enquiry into Corruption, that judges, lawyers, elected officials, senior public service employees, contractors, design professionals, and the underworld were ALL involved. To exclude anyone is to exclude them all. It takes but one bad apple…..
@Northern Observer
From following the discussion judges will get their own legislation. Meaning they will not be left out. It becomes a timing issue.
@Robert August 6, 2020 7:46 AM “Yes, John, that is true. But yuh know the same constitution makes provision for acting judicial appointments beyond retirement age?”
The Constitution can say whatever it feels like, but we all have to obey the rules of nature.
The rules of nature says that the life expectancy of a Bajan male is still 77.162 years.
Mr. Cheltenham is 78?
@Sargeant August 6, 2020 8:32 AM “There are 21 Senators and my count is 12 stayed on to vote and 4 walked out which makes 16, where were the other 5?”
According to a government senator on today’s Brass Tacks some of the others were “sick” The way I look at it if you are not well enough to show up EVERY DAY for a part time job you should not continue to hold the job, and the PAY.
Not some, if there are 12 government Senators and the president is non voting, it means one government senator was absent. The 2 opposition senators walked out, 2 independent senators abstained. You can do the arithmetic.
@Hal Austin August 6, 2020 9:00 AM “We need simple legislation: if a person has a lifestyle that appears beyond his/her declared income, then s/he should be asked to explain by the tax authorities. Simple. It is not an Act that is important, it is the spirit of the Act. People of integrity do not need a law to keep them in the straight and narrow. In Barbados we will pass a law, but it will remain dormant.”
Agreed 100%
Apparently there is a 1929 “Prevention of Corruption Act that has NEVER been used.
If this is true I can only assume that from 1929 to the present all of our high level officials are HEAVEN bound.
Except Donville. Naughty boy.
“WURA,
The first problem is the declaration of the assets. To whom are they declared?”
a whole shitshow to protect the corruption….but no one is buying it….glad Caswell and Co. managed to catspraddle them.
then they, having no shame, principles, morals ethic nor intelligence, drafted a remediation bill to protect all the thieving minorities who continually robbed the Black population for over 40 years….all in a bid to make sure these criminals never pay for their crimes, for that the black slaves are working overtime drafting these bills of corruption protection..
all the crooked minorities will have to do is circumvent the remediation bill, redesign all their scams and voila, back in business with the sellouts in parliament getting their bribes again, even a teenager can pull that off
…if they would put that much effort into diversifying the economy, they may actually find ways to get the country back on its feet….
@Blogmaster
Are they not ALL paid from the public purse? Then why not encapsulate all. Sounding like a modern update to Animal Farm.
Stupse! Maybe you should try reading.🤣🤣🤣
“Apparently there is a 1929 “Prevention of Corruption Act that has NEVER been used.”
and they never planned to use it on each other ever, but the US knew just how to use the act.
wuh Donville said in US, he would not have had to worry about that act being used against him for criminal activity in Barbados…apparently he still dont.
@NO
Just reporting what is in the public domain. One would anticipate the legislation should be massaged to reflect local realities.
@David,
if that is the case you will get little opposition from me as along as it adheres to all the conditions in the bill that we are talking about.
it begs the question, why didnt you say so earler?
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