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One cannot fail to notice the inconsistency of those rejecting human rights their rejection takes place in the public square created by human rights. It is difficult to reject human rights without using them.” –Filip Spagnoli  Making Human Rights Real

Discriminations are never a sign of a civilized society. What makes us civilized is our act of liberated kindness with other people beyond the man-made primitive citadels of gender, race, religion and sexual orientation.” ― Abhijit NaskarEither Civilized or Phobic: A Treatise on Homosexuality

At one level, it is perhaps understandable that the Church (in fact, a random group comprising an apostle, a reverend (sic), two bishops and a sociologist) should be prepared to fight against any attempt to make homosexual preferences a human right in Barbados. I refer to the back page report in Friday’s edition of the Barbados Advocate, headlined Church decries LGBT agenda.

After all, they can cite any number of Biblical injunctions in support of their position against the practice and, if they would be true to their vocation, they must be equally condemnatory.

At another level, however, this reasoning does not by itself lead inexorably to the thesis that homosexuality per se or homosexual acts should attract the awesome power of the state’s legislative and prosecutorial machinery -considerations that are usually premised on more terrestrial and contemporary conditions.

In any case, there is already some degree of disconnect between these two arms of the state machinery with the legislative provision seeking disproportionately to criminalize acts of buggery and gross indecency even in private between consenting adult partners and the prosecutorial arm apparently restricting itself to the strict enforcement of the law in cases only where these acts are non-consensual, involve minors incapable of consent as victims, or occur in public.

Indeed, especially in the instance of gross indecency, the sole offence that might encompass female homosexual conduct, the definition is risibly comprehensive, seemingly being capable of covering any form of sexual interaction whatsoever between any couple anywhere. According to section 12 (3) of Cap.154;

An act of “serious indecency” is an act, whether natural or unnatural by a person involving the use of the genital organs for the purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire”

In such a legislative context, the “agenda”, if any, of the LGBT community must be to remove any provision that might cause individuals therein to engage in criminal conduct every time he or she chooses to express him or herself sexually. And the unlikelihood of a criminal charge and prosecution by the State scarcely detracts from the discriminatory nature of a law that is not similarly applied to traditional heterosexual conduct. In fact, this official selective enforcement is itself a cogent argument for the repeal and reform of the provisions.

According to the assemblage as reported, this agenda “equates to “a new form of colonialism because it hasn’t emerged from Barbados, “ but is part of “a global agenda to influence different nations.”

In my view, this assertion does not serve to weaken the force of the local argument given the generally accepted universality of human rights. History has shown us that it takes some degree of geopolitical clout to lead the fight to reverse decades of the unfair treatment of others whether in the context of apartheid, woman’s liberation or the mandatory death penalty. International intervention in a local issue, if it does exist, should not always be perceived as a negative.

The antagonist argument goes a bit further though. According to the chief spokesman, “This is a new attempt to colonize us with certain values and certain perspectives, and if we don’t conform, then the argument is that we can suffer economically, and that we can suffer socially because they withdraw support, they withdraw aid…”

I feel certain that some wag will wish to observe that we seem to be doing quite well by ourselves in suffering economically without the withdrawal of aid from these neo-colonists, and it is at least ironic to make the point about tying financial aid to behavioural conditionalities as we prepare to enter shortly into an IMF agreement.

The sociologist was even more persuaded that the agenda was not a local initiative. She holds the view that the local organizations have no say in the matter of the agenda being pushed, citing the assistance they have been receiving from an internationally recognized organization. Nevertheless, she was also convinced of the small local group’s futility in attempting to change God’s word, “but they cannot ever.” This last is patently irrefutable.

But what is this agenda? As perceived by the evangelical group, it includes an attempt to make the personal sexual preference of a very small group a human right in Barbados; to impose the homosexuality (sic) lifestyle as a natural organic sexual behaviour and not a learned behaviour on the majority of Barbados‘ population; to deconstruct marriage and to reconstruct it to legitimize same sex partnerships as opposed to the Adam and Eve marriage union for the entire population. This indeed a weighty charge sheet laid against the movement.

First, as any heterosexual will attest, one’s personal sexual activity is already a fundamental human right, unless a human right must also satisfy the criterion of another’s sanction in order to exist. Second, it is quite unclear how one could “impose” a sexual lifestyle on the majority of an unwilling population; and, third, as the Barbados Advocate editorial for last Sunday observed, in the absence of any public call for the legalization of same sex marriage in Barbados, this notion of deconstructing traditional marriage is tantamount to shouting fire in a crowded theatre when there is none there.

The timing of the intervention here seems clearly designed to detract from participation in the LBGT Pride march planned for Sunday. It (the intervention) may be successful, I do not know. But the legal determination of whether the LBGT movement or the evangelical group is correct on the rather technical point of human rights will ultimately be a matter for the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and its interpretation of the relevant Articles of the American Convention on Human Rights that we have agreed to uphold.


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85 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – The Human Right to Sexual Preference”

  1. Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service Avatar
    Well Well & Cut N’ Paste At Your Service

    Hypocrites trying to hide their own perverted sexualty always find themselves in the bedrooms of other people judging away.


  2. Government at the moment has ONLY ONE MISSION, GET THE COUNTRY FINANCES IN ORDER AND OPERATING EFFICIENTLY, only then can they branch out into other legislative endeavours such as the LBGT issues.


  3. @Wily

    We have 26 ministers, this should mean that the government is resourced to have a holistic approach. The society is not only about economic planning, there are social factors to mesh.

  4. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    “But what is this agenda? As perceived by the evangelical group, it includes an attempt to make the personal sexual preference of a very small group a human right in Barbados; to impose the homosexuality (sic) lifestyle as a natural organic sexual behaviour and not a learned behaviour on the majority of Barbados‘ population; to deconstruct marriage and to reconstruct it to legitimize same sex partnerships as opposed to the Adam and Eve marriage union for the entire population. This indeed a weighty charge sheet laid against the movement. “

    It would be most informative if these Bible-thumping members of the moral police force in colonially-backward Victorian-age Barbados could show us where Adam & Eve were married in accordance with the rules and regulations laid down by their modern-day church of latter-day saints.

    What the ‘hell’ do these sexual eavesdroppers and moral peeping toms think Adam was doing before Eve came along, with a serpent in tow, to whet his burning sexual desires? Playing with himself while watching the other lustful animals being fruitful and multiplying?

    Since this lobby of sexual morality wants to determine as a unified body the ‘nature’ of private interactions between consulting adults then they should be as fervent in a similar move to get all perceived sexually-deviant behaviour on the same morally-despicable footing.

    Why don’t they call for the criminalization of “MASTURBATION”, both male and female, as so divinely banned in their Bible of all moral authority?

    Didn’t your chief judge of human sexuality, namely one called Yahweh execute the poor premature ejaculating Onan to death for spilling his seed of fertility on the ground instead of in the pubic hairs of his widowed sister-in-law?

    Or would this ‘moral and statutory ‘outlawing’ of common self-coming or jacking-off be crossing a bridge to far and they will all find themselves burning, with their own lonely selfish carnal desire, in Hell?

    Now Dr. Rev. Georgie Porgie and the Communist Evangelist Socialist Prophetess and Capitalist Diviner Freedom Crier, what do you have to say about this homo pleasuring versus the selfish sexual act of self-satisfaction?

  5. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Mr Blogmaster, in the words of the Dean the blogger @Willy’s made a comprehensive risible retort 🤣…

    As you bluntly suggest even with ministers tasked separately with Home Affairs and our Environment n Natural Beautification and then of course having TWO ministers of Housing Lands n Rural Development and another TWO of MTW and of course with THREE ministers managing aspects of Economic Affairs (in an economy generating less than $6B in GDP ) the laff-line narrative takes tongue 😁 that this Bajan crew canNOT walk human rights and chew on finances in the same cabinet… wha loss!

    But on the serious side…

    @Dean Jeff, this subject is forever painful despite the apparent international acceptance of the basic human right that we as adults can interface with whom we so choose to form mutual consent.

    With due respect to the clergy as a group or profession they have long lost any moral right to speak grandly on matters of sexuality and the traditions of marriage. Their leadership failures are profound.

    On the matter of the “weighty charge sheet” this group like many others before are not that wrong on general societal impact, however.

    We can quibble or argue at length on the impact to a Bdos population of a “deconstruct[ed] marriage and to reconstruct it to legitimize same sex partnerships” but evidence from the same international scene does not augur well for us Bajans.

    There is no recognition of same sex unions here but considering the over 60% acceptance by Bajans of LGBT issues how far are we from more common law style same sex partners more readily interacting with children of relatives so much so that the simple dialogue of ‘I had so much fun with Auntie Joan and Auntie Stef at the fair; can we visit with them next week on the hike’ becomes more standard than exceptional.

    How far removed are we from living the reality of “I Have Two Daddies: Both Earthly Men” (the original book speaks of ‘An Earthly Dad and A Heavenly Dad’) .

    That sea change is a major wave on what you describe as the natural organic sexual behaviour and it is upon us. Those who watched more kids programs in recent years with their children may recall an episode of ‘Arthur’ dealing with gay parenting. Then of course there is the other well known supposedly ‘gay’ cartoon character Sponge Bob Square Pants.

    And what of shows like ‘Modern Family’. That’s a profound shock to the evangelical’s organic system surely.

    Frankly, I was much more appalled by the popularity of ‘Two and A Half Men’ with its rampant sense of sexual laissez-faise around an impressionable preteen boy as an assault on marriage and traditional mores…

    Alas, gay and now transgendered life style are well entrenched in many locales and thus Bajans continued opposition to the International American Court of Human Rights will not uproot or prevent those rights here.

  6. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Inter-American Court of Human Rights ..that should read, of course.


  7. Miller..don’t mind the hypocrites, while they are stuck in other people’s bedrooms, consulting adults, the world is very rapidly changing all around them leaving them deep in the dark ages and coated with hypocrisy..

    Got a new brew to enjoy in Canada, infused with Cannabis..Lawson is too high to post to BU these days..lol

    The oil is potent stuff but the beer made from roots etc…aww

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/22/it-hits-you-very-quickly-canada-brews-first-cannabis-beer

    “cannabis beer
    Entrepreneurs across the country are racing to capitalise on drug’s legalisation
    Ashifa Kassam in Belleville
    @ashifa_k
    Sun 22 Jul 2018 12.41 BST Last modified on Sun 22 Jul 2018 15.38 BST

    Province Brands
    The logo of Province Brands, the startup behind the new beer. Photograph: Province Brands
    Scientists in a small Ontario laboratory are testing enzymes and experimenting with fermentation. Their techniques are not new, but their focus is a first. They are developing what is being described as the world’s first beer brewed from cannabis.

    Most cannabis beers on the market are brewed from barley and infused with marijuana oil, according to Dooma Wendschuh of Province Brands, the Toronto startup behind the product. “That’s not what we do. Our beer is brewed from the stocks, stem and roots of the cannabis plant.”

    It is a story playing out across Canada as entrepreneurs race to secure a foothold in what is expected to be a multibillion-dollar market. The country will become the second in the world to legalise marijuana for recreational use on 17 October.”


  8. God gave us all free will.

    He also gave us rules by which to live.

    Free will allows us to live as we please.

    We can ignore his rules if we so desire.

    He made it so.

    It becomes a matter between God and the individual.

    No amount of legislation created by mankind can change that simple fact.

    No one is perfect and no one can judge …. that is for God to do!!


  9. Ah thought I would see Alvin Cummins on CBC Toronto protesting all of this..lol

  10. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    If these moral crusaders pretending to be Christians since the day of Emancipation cannot get 70 % of Bajans to have sex within the ‘banns’ of legal marriage so that the offspring of their sexual activity can be considered legitimate ‘brats’, then how on God’s natural earth can they expect to dictate what the LGBT community is to do with respect to their human rights?

    The same way enlightened white people fought ‘slavishly’ against the enslavement of blacks from whom these same modern-day Leviticus preachers have descended, so too are those with no sexual preference axe to grind in support of those who are demanding similar rights for the LGBT community.

    No so long ago it was neither morally acceptable nor legal for a black man to have sex with a white woman, far less contemplate the idea of marrying her to make an honest woman out of her. Such a thought far less the act would have made him an immediate target for a lynching or with a terminal fate like the uppity black boy Emmett Till.

    There was also a time, in the not too far distant past, when black people were not allowed to marry in any Church or Courthouse in “Christian” Barbados.

    So what’s up with these ‘holier-than-thou-wash-in-the-blood-of-the sacrificial-lamb-of-Leviticus’ black preacher men and women with their slave mentality and mimicking their old white masters who descendants have long put away their moral whips?


  11. Advice to the PM –stay far away from this issue! FIX the problems that effect the majority. Sewerage, Economy and Finances first.

  12. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    The miller has pulled out the V-12 this Sunday afternoon and firing pun all cylinders


  13. @MoneyBrain

    This matter is being challenged in the law courts all across the Caribbean. Barbados will have to refresh existing legislation or see the matter taken to the Courts. We have seen the local LGBT chapter become emboldened by the recent court decision in Trinidad for example.


  14. What is the difference between ” a marriage” and “a civil union”?


  15. Other than the privilege (or foolhardiness) of entering a conjugal state, what human right is peculiarly denied LGBT persons in Barbados? Am I allowed to have anal sex with my wife because I am not a card carrying member of the LGBT association?


  16. @David

    “We have 26 ministers”

    ALL HANDS ON DECK as they say, if the ship is sinking, no time to be addressing the frills. After the ship is financially secure then other tasks can be assigned and dealt with on a priority basis. Unless the LBGT issue is a MAJOR priority and its critical to the ship not sinking then it should be put on the back burner until the other critical priorities are dealt with. 26 Ministers implies to Wily that individually they are competency challenged and are likely to need all 26 focused on a single task to be remotely successful.


  17. Stealing is against God’s law … also man’s.

    Politicians never get prosecuted for stealing!!

    … so if they do steal, God has it covered.

    Why not remove the statutes against stealing …. or killing.

    Interestingly, I don’t think there is any law against being a hypocrite!!

  18. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ John July 22, 2018 1:10 PM
    “Stealing is against God’s law … also man’s.
    Politicians never get prosecuted for stealing!!
    … so if they do steal, God has it covered.
    Why not remove the statutes against stealing …. or killing.”

    Whose statutes are you referring to? Those of the Elohim or those man-made under the fictitious name(s) of Thutmoses?

    Didn’t your god Yahweh put a mark on the white on black Cain for killing his ’favoured’ Chinese and Indian brother Abel and threatened the imaginary world-wide population of the time who wanted to kill him with a similar sentence of death?

    Why don’t you called for a statute against war between countries or tribes and then there will be less killing in the name of your god and others like Allah?

    “And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear.
    Now that You have driven me this day from the soil I must hide from Your presence, I shall be a restless wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me.
    And the Lord said to him:
    Therefore whoever kills Cain shall suffer sevenfold vengeance.
    And the Lord set a mark upon Cain so that whoever found him would not slay him.”

    Do you John, carry that mark of Cain?
    You must be; unless you have evolved from a constantly fo*ping bi- and tri-sexual bonobo albino ape from sub-Sahara Africa.


  19. IO do not have much to add..
    I do not start at the point where Jeff began or where he ended. Everyone is entitled to their view, but they are some who will turn to the Bible to justify the enslavement of others.

    I do not care who is right or wrong but I know that those who represent the church are often caught on the wrong side of an issue.
    Go, sin no more.


  20. So they want to sex in their jobby and want the state to sanction it. Who cares let them carry on .one day coming soon just like aids wiped out a vast majority another epidemic would occur and all those that are advocating same sex marriages would be looking to place blame on govt.
    As for me and my household i would serve the Lord


  21. Ya ain’t got no political masters to serve anymore and weak people always have to find something to serve..

    Hypocrites abound, the same religious freaks had no problem with slave masters raping hardback men, women and children anally..ya would never hear the Jesus freaks and frauds condemn that, they are very selective in which anal abominations in their minds to condemn, it’s like a disease with them.


  22. if they pay their taxes leave them alone lets get the island up and running properly again. Llike you two harpies havent had it up the ass, Lol Isnt that why you dont go out on windy days because you may a sound like someone blowing into a coke bottle.


  23. Lawson…how ya like ya Cannabis beer, that should keep you out of Barbados for a while.

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    EDITORIAL FROM THE ADVOCAT

    PERMANENTLY FIXED AT BIRTH?
    Sun, 07/22/2018 – 12:00am

    The current contretemps between the local LGBTQI (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender queer, and intersex) community and the lyrics of a composition from one of the participants in this year’s calypso competition raises an intriguing issue that, unsurprisingly, has not so far entered the national discourse, except perhaps obliquely in the context of the possibility of the legalisation of same-sex marriage. This is the question of whether a male at birth can ever become a female or vice versa, or whether an individual’s sex or gender is fixed for all time at his or her birth.

    The calypsonian at the centre of the dispute, Billboard, has been taken to task over his assertion in the song, “Sex Change”, that “there is no such thing as being transgender as you cannot change your sex”.

    We doubt that Billboard is aware, but his assertion echoes the more authoritative dictum of Mr Justice Ormrod, also a qualified physician, in the 1970 case of Corbett v Corbett in England. In that case, Arthur Corbett sought to have his marriage to April Ashley dissolved, principally on the ground that since Ms Ashley had been born male, she was to be treated as a male in perpetuity despite her change of sex, and the marriage was therefore illegal and void.

    According to the judge, “Because marriage is essentially a union between a man and a woman, the relationship depended on sex and not on gender. The law should adopt the chromosomal, gonadal and genital tests. If all three are congruent that should determine a person’s sex for the purpose of marriage. Any operative intervention should be ignored. The biological sexual constitution of an adult is fixed at birth, at the latest, and cannot be changed either by the natural development of organs or by medical or surgical means….”

    He thus declared the marriage void ab initio (inherently a nullity).
    This use of biological criteria to determine sex was later approved by the Court of Appeal in R. v. Tan ([1983] and, indeed, given more general application; the court holding there that a person born male had been correctly convicted under a statute penalising men who live on the earnings of prostitution, notwithstanding the fact that the accused had undergone gender reassignment therapy.

    Subsequently, however, in 2002, the European Court of Human Rights ruled in Christine Goodwin v the United Kingdom that under the European Human Rights Convention, a test of congruent biological factors can no longer be decisive in denying legal recognition to the change of gender of a post-operative transsexual. There are other important factors – the acceptance of the condition of gender identity disorder by the medical professions and health authorities within Contracting States, the provision of treatment, including surgery, to assimilate the individual as closely as possible to the gender in which they perceive that they properly belong and the assumption by the transsexual of the social role of the assigned gender.

    This judgment spurred the enactment in the UK of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, a statute that enabled transsexuals to apply for a certificate showing the person had satisfied the criteria for legal recognition in the acquired gender.

    Of course, none of these later legal developments is directly relevant to Barbados. In consequence, the earlier decision in Corbett should remain applicable as a matter of law and lend some support to Billboard’s assertion. Clearly, in light of later medical developments, some legislative reform may be needed in this context locally.


  25. The blogmaster’s position on homosexuality, same sex union and related abnormal behaviour is known to regulars to the blog. As a society we have to signal the values we want to fashion and be willing to defend them. Increasingly we have been washed along with the flow of the popular world view. This may be a human rights matter but the blogmaster doesn’t have to like or agree with it. In the BU household we preach values that respect the role of gender in a wholesome society.

    https://www.facebook.com/BarbadosLabourParty/videos/1342494999227212/


  26. The LGBT activist in Barbados could be embolden by the new BLP government.

    Surely there are members of the government who might emphathise with LGBT persons some of whom spent years “in the closet “.

    Ask yourself how you would want to be treated if you were born LGBT ?

  27. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Mr Blogmaster, you have rejoined several past debates with your almost ofthand remark vis “As a society we have to signal the values we want to fashion and be willing to defend them”…..A truism surely but taken contextually for the island Barbados it’s an overly grand statement.

    Is the concern with LGBT… issues the disdain of the sexual act itself between those of the same sex or principally about ‘preaching [wholesome] values’?

    If the latter how then does our society find it so facile to steal at Government coffers, business tills or bank accounts from fellow citizens and relatives but then wash themselves in the blood of God against intimate physical contacts between consenting adults!

    It is beyond hypocritical (not picking on anyone as this permeates society] to opine so crassly “they want to sex in their jobby” and then pontificate so demurely about “my household [serving] the Lord”.

    Serving the Lord (as I grasp the concept anyhow) means being humane and solicitious of your fellowman…thus although Judge Ormond is accurate that your gender remains in perpetuity from birth he does not adjudicate on what goes on in your head…about what you think and project about yourself as a person.

    This is NOT simply about the sexual act but about fellow humans who are truly mentally oriented differently…they are simply asking to be allowed to find love, happiness and longevity of relationships within the boundaries of societal practices/laws: not being refused input on medical care or pension rights or any other rights allowed a regular legal partner.

    I am sure there must be Bajan same sex partners living harmoniously for many years and if one partner fell gravely iill tomorrow the other could easily be denied all consultation about their medical condition despite their personal status of long time companions living together.

    Yet a husband and wife fighting like two tigers, living apart on and off with different partners and shepherding their five children and step-children between them as the products from sexual affairs would be considered in the strict sense of the wholesome marriage as ‘serving the Lord’.

    What really is normal and abnormal!

    And BTW re Judge Ormond….a man can never be reconfigured to become pregnant but if he is remodeled in all other ways to be woman, changes his name et al and joins his willing partner then what is normal and what is abnormal in the eyes of the law…can their ‘marriage’ be justly dissolved by the courts!

    A post-operative transgendered individual must use the ladies bathroom, not so or if in Bim hiking down in the bush at Maycocks Bay s/he must of necessity ‘stoop down’ to water the grass surely. …so what is normal in this mixed up world in which we are indeed “washed along with the flow of the popular [and unpopular] world view.”

    Who are we in our hetrosexual happiness to judge these things as so outside the norms!


  28. Looking beyond the single story …which has proven for centuries to be nothing but destructive.

    https://www.facebook.com/TED/videos/10160661025090652/?t=75


  29. Rev. Lucille Baird, who her Bible explicitly states that she as a woman should be silent in church, Pastor Dear, the psychologist and Eliseus Joseph are clamouring for relevance. They should be the last persons to talk about foreign influence. Anyone of the three preachers does pay NIS? Stupseee!


  30. This debate about same sex unions or sexual preference is not generating as much vitriol as before, guess some folks have retired or they are treating it as a fait accompli.

    Speaking of sexual preference Barbados has not been in the dark about this issue, wasn’t there a “Queen of the Bees” beauty competition approximately 45 years ago?

  31. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @Blogmaster
    “related abnormal behaviour”, when I read this coming from you, I shiver.
    I was going to tell the learned author he could have stopped at his first two quotations for they encapsulated the essence of his article.


  32. As I understand it “sex” is what is between one’s legs and “gender” is between ones ears. Leaving aside medical conditions which result in a person being labelled intersex, the sex of a person is quite deterministic. It is as Ormrod ruled, a designation based on chromosomal, gonadal and genetic metrics. One’s sex cannot change. However gender is obviously a more malleable condition and one can with effort change one’s gender. It is confusing to me to speak of a trans-sexual which in my view is an impossibility. However being trans gender is quite possible.

    It is thus surprising and disturbing that the practitioners of the “Law” who often claim precision in the use of language seem to conveniently indulge in an Orwellian conflation of the words sex and gender. To put a finer point on my concern, are the terms “man” and “woman” designations of sex or designations of gender?

  33. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    *are the terms “man” and “woman” designations of sex or designations of gender?

    “Because marriage is essentially a union between a man and a woman, the relationship depended on sex and not on gender” per Ormrod J.


  34. @Northern Observer

    We use to discuss homosexuality a lot on BU as the regulars can attest. The blogmaster applied the moral perspective, we get confused between sexual orientation and behaviors. We have a group who are downright wufless and engage in homosexual behavior as a deviant lifestyle. Sexual orientation the blogmaster is sympathetic.


  35. but what of the Gender Recognition Act 2004?

  36. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    *but what of the Gender Recognition Act 2004?

    @Ping Pong, as the Editorial points out, this is a purely English development and has no local application. Buy it does accept that gender change is possible in agreement with your earlier argument…

  37. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    I am not too clear what it is that the LGB T lobby is demanding from the Barbadian Society.

    Is it just the removal of the buggery law which criminalizes the act of buggery for homosexuals and heterosexuals?
    Or
    Is it an attempt to force the heterosexual section of society by legislation to accept their (LGBT) sexual practices as ” normal”,widely defined?

    Have we not as a society always followed the live and let live philosophy quite successfully for centuries without prejudice to the otherwise sexually oriented ?

    Why is it that we try to adopt social issues of other societies which we in our own way have long settled ?

  38. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bernard Codrington July 23, 2018 7:51 AM

    There is one right that they are demanding which cannot be morally argued against.

    That is the right for a woman to be the legally-recognized spouse of another woman or similarly a man to become a legally-recognized partner/spouse of another man.

    Whether this ‘right’ is in the form of lobbying for the appropriate amendments to the existing Marriage Act or by way of a new Act to cover the rights and responsibilities of any two people under a Civil Partnership arrangement.

    Isn’t there a similar civil partnership arrangement where a Common Law wife where (or husband, hopefully) is entitled to certain benefits after living in the same domestic space for 5 years?

    Wasn’t it also argued that such a ‘law’ would spell the end of the traditional marriage or deter men from ‘living’ with women and ‘getting free milk’ after 4 years have elapsed?

    I would propose that the Constitution be amended to facilitate the easy implementation of the Civil Partnership arrangement into law.
    Sections 6 and 23 seem like two good areas to amend to reflect modern-day social realities if Barbados is to be considered as one of the more ‘socially’ enlightened jurisdictions which like to boast about its highly educated and intellectually sophisticated population ‘punching above its weight’ and looking to make its ‘little-village-minded’ mark on the world stage.

    We also ought to consider the rights of visitors (our bread and butter customers) from more enlightened jurisdictions. Many of these so-called sexual deviants (from a Christian fundamentalist Bajan perspective) are not only big spenders on their regular holiday jaunts but also HNWIs (High Net-Worth Individuals) looking to share and enjoy their hard-earned wealth.

    Let us assume two well-off British visitors who are in a legally recognized civil partnership / relationship and one of them falls seriously ill or find himself or herself in some other life-threatening situation.
    The moral and legal questions to pose to the local authorities:
    Would the other ‘compos mentis partner be legally entitled to act as the spouse in Barbados?

  39. Bernard Codrington Avatar
    Bernard Codrington

    @ Miller at 9 :16 AM

    What free milk are you talking about? Persons in loving relationships freely exchange “milk”. There is no costs involved. If there is , it is an economic arrangement. In which case the law court is there to settle the distributions of assets in a failed partnership/enterprise. I am sure there are already aspects of the law which cover these.
    With respect to making emergency medical decisions , beneficiaries under wills,pensions ,life insurance benefits etc, surely there are legal contracts that can be drawn up to deal with these matters. We do these all the time for friends and biological relatives , not so?

    But you may be right. We are becoming a litigious society. We use the law courts to define everything; and then quibble about paying taxes and the slow rate of settling civil cases. A lot of these imported “cultures”come with a cost, which we can ill afford.
    .

  40. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @BC
    I cannot speak for those in the LGBTQ community.
    They want equality.
    Our tax code (Ontario) and many definitions were based solely on a heterosexual union. If my wife (female) chooses to give me a car she owns, there is no sales tax paid on the transfer value. Previously, two co-habitating persons of the same sex did not enjoy that equality. My employer health benefits did not extend to my significant other, IF they were of the same sex. The list goes on and on and on.
    As far as your observation “a society always followed the live and let live philosophy quite successfully for centuries without prejudice”, isn’t likely to be viewed similarly by those in the LGBTQ community. A few years back, a long time childhood friend was struggling. His eldest had ‘come out’. He was devastated (after all this was wrong?). In discussing the matter, itself a major step, it was pointed out after some investigation on social media, that 90%, yes 90%, of those persons (nearly 60) whom we ‘suspected’ in our youth as being gay or lesbian or other, did NOT live in Barbados. Is this a reasonable emigration rate for a group? Is this representative of success? Possibly you are tolerant, or really do not care how others live, but I doubt a member of the LGBTQ community would conclude “without prejudice”.
    The local vernacular is full of uncomplimentary terms related to non-heterosexual behaviour. At school, there were multiple nicknames of a similar nature.
    Today I am left asking myself, what is “Normal”, beyond a setting on my clothes dryer.
    In my children’s generation, coming out by age 13 was not unusual. Seemingly, the girls more than the boys, would gravitate between whom they were attracted to. (This is the Bi in LGBTQ) And it could be a larger subset than the L or G.
    In my 30’s & 40’s whenever a heterosexual couple split, beyond the just cannot tolerate any longer, one, or sometimes both, regularly had other persons of the opposite sex with whom they had a relationship. Today, that is frequently “other person of the same sex”. Societal norms pushed them into a heterosexual relationship, but today at age 50 or more, they are doing what they want, not what society thinks they should do/be.

  41. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bernard Codrington July 23, 2018 11:01 AM
    “With respect to making emergency medical decisions , beneficiaries under wills,pensions ,life insurance benefits etc, surely there are legal contracts that can be drawn up to deal with these matters. We do these all the time for friends and biological relatives , not so?”

    BC, what do you mean there is no cost involved?

    Haven’t you heard about Alimony (pronounced ‘All He Money’)?
    We can guess you have been that ‘lovingly’ fortunate as to not to have walked down that financially burdensome avenue without having the pleasure of sipping nocturnal milk with a black ‘cat’ on guard.

    If you were to review your massively enlightening statement reproduced above you would certainly have to admit that you have sealed the deal in making the perfect submission in support of the case for same sex marriages.

    A legal partnership, whether by way of the traditional marriage or by way of the British Civil Partnership arrangement is the ‘ideal’ method of legal contracting to cover such ‘non-commercial’ arrangements between a man and a woman or which ever combination tickles your fancy.

    This fight by the LGBT for equal rights with respect to living with their partners of choice is reminiscent (déjà vu) of the long struggles black people had to endure to achieve their Civil Rights right across the white man’s world.

    Why are black people doing it to their own disadvantaged members of society?
    Why can’t Bajans and other backward blacks in the Caribbean take a leaf out of the book of that Rainbow Nation called South Africa, the former bastion of apartheid in all its nasty vicious forms of racial discrimination?

    Does the name Caster Semenya ring a bell or mean anything to you?

    Barbados had always had its ‘universal standard share’ of homosexuals, both in and out of the closet.

    So what’s wrong with their legal recognition, their rights and responsibilities; just like any other group of the society and in the same way we should be recognizing the ‘differently-able’ members who were once thought of a the children of the devil cursed and punished for their sins in their previous lives by your god of vengeance?

  42. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Northern, in an backhanded (or perhaps deliberately) your coda makes the core argument @BC and too @Dean Jeff alludes to in their different ways. @BC is the ‘live and let live mantra and the Dean speaks of “to deconstruct marriage and to reconstruct it to legitimize same sex partnerships as opposed to the Adam and Eve marriage union.”

    The fact as you assert that our youth feel less ‘shame’ in stating their preferences in their early teen years to live as they wish and our seniors now too feel no more ‘shame’ in deconstructing the hetro-union to join Adam to Steve or Eve with Edina does give the blaring alarm to many, surely.

    The Bernard’s (like many of us older folk) are perhaps discombobulated by this outward spectacle of …love.

    Incidentally, we can all recall that two girls could hold hands as BFFs (long before we knew such an acronym even existed 🤣) BUT never two boys really.

    My point simply: even in its most innocent the spectacle of female same sex partners was essentially always looked upon with less ridicule … but now, as you say what is truly freaking normal!

  43. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @DIW
    your point is well taken.
    As a man, I could spot 80% of my childrens gay friends, I had much more trouble with the lesbians. And there were just as many.

  44. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    What Does the Bible Say About Masturbation?
    Frequently Asked Questions
    Is it a sin to masturbate?
    Is there anything in the Bible about masturbation?
    Is it wrong to masturbate when I am away from my wife?
    Is it wrong for girls/women to masturbate?

    The Bible
    The Bible does not say anything specifically about masturbation. However, there is one Bible passage that has sometimes been interpreted as a condemnation of masturbation:
    Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so he put him to death also. (NIV, Genesis 38:8-10)

    What Onan did was not masturbation, but a form of birth control known as coitus interruptus. Onan’s actual sin was probably his resistance to the Old Testament custom of providing offspring for his deceased brother by impregnating his widow. However a parallel is sometimes drawn between Onan’s act and the wasting of the semen that occurs when males masturbate.

    Perspective
    Thomas Bokenkotter, a Catholic priest and historian, explains the traditional church opposition to masturbation this way:
    Data from the sciences have also severely challenged the traditional condemnation of masturbation, which to some extent was based on outmoded views of human reproduction. At one time it was believed the male sperm was the only factor in human reproduction and the sperm was regarded as humans in miniature. Hence spilling it out was tantamount to abortion as well as a waste of a precious element. Other myths also played a role. Masturbation was blamed for a whole host of physical and spiritual ills such as acne, asthma, heart murmurs, lethargy and even insanity.1

    It is now known that sperm cells are not miniature humans; a man’s sperm must unite with a woman’s egg before a baby can be formed. Furthermore, sperm cells not ejected from the body simply die after a few weeks anyway, and they are continuously replaced. It is also now known that masturbation does not cause acne, insanity or any of the other ills it was blamed for in the past.

    Psychological data indicate that masturbation is common in both sexes and all age groups, particularly adolescents. It may create a sense of guilt that is blown out of proportion by the taboo nature of the subject.

    Church Teachings
    Church teachings about masturbation vary. The Roman Catholic Church and some other churches still consider masturbation to be a sin. However, many other churches have accepted it as normal for young unmarried people of both sexes and an acceptable alternative to the very real dangers and evils of promiscuous sexual intercourse. Even some Roman Catholic theologians say that the potential sin of masturbation is not the act itself, but that habitual, compulsive masturbation in adulthood may be used as an escape from normal heterosexual and interpersonal growth.2
    Among the three largest Christian denominations in the United States, the official Catholic Church teaching is below. The Southern Baptist Convention and United Methodist Church do not have official statements about masturbation.

    Roman Catholic
    2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

    To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.3

  45. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    IT IS AMAZING THAT THE IDIOT MILLER HAS OBVIOUSLY GONE THROUGH THE BIBLE

    AND IT OUGHT TO BE CLEAR

    THAT THE BIBLE HAS NOT GONE THROUGH HIM

    IT IS AMAZING THE RUBBISH THAT HE CONJOUS UP ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD……..10 TIMES WORSE THAN THE MISSING BULLSHITE WHO TOTALLY REJECTS THE TENET OF 2 TIMOTHY 2:15 TO WHICH ALL SANE, SOUND, SINCERE, SENSIBLE STUDENTS OF THE SCRIPTURES ASCRIBE

    MORE ANON

  46. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    IF BULLERS AND WICKERS AND THEIR INTERMEDIATES ARE “NORMAL” VARIANTS INSTEAD OF ABBERANTS OF HUMANITY, CAN SOMEONE POINT OUT THE GENETIC BASIS FOR THIS?


  47. Georgie Porgie

    Did you hear (or read) the speech given by the Anglican priest at the gay pride march yesterday? To quote the priest “Some silly words written in a book thousands of years ago won’t stop…” the gay progress!

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    RE Ping Pong July 23, 2018 3:27 PM

    Georgie Porgie

    Did you hear (or read) the speech given by the Anglican priest at the gay pride march yesterday? To quote the priest “Some silly words written in a book thousands of years ago won’t stop…” the gay progress!

    NO I DID NOT HEAR THIS, AND I AM HAPPY THAT I DID NOT
    WE WONDER THAT THE “CHURCH” IS UNABLE TO MAKE A WORTHY CONTRIBUTION TO SOCIETY

    THE TRUE CHURCH OF GOD WAS FOUNDED ON THE LIVING WORD OF GOD FROM WHOM WE GOT THE WRITTEN WORD

    WHEN PETER SAID “THOU ART THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD……….THE CHRIST RESPONDED THAT IT WAS ON THIS NOTE….. THIS ASSERTION ….THIS FOUNDATION …THIS ROCK THAT HE WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH

    AS AN ANGLICAN, I SANG “CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, PILLAR AND GROUND OF TRUTH.”
    THIS LINE IS OF COURSE A PARAPHRASE OF 1 Timothy 3:15

    CLEARLY THE AUTHOR OF THIS HYMN, AND SEVERAL IN HYMNS ANCIENT & MODERN WHICH WE SANG AT CHURCH AND SCHOOL IN THE 50’S & 60’S, KNEW THE SCRIPTURE

    FOR A CONTEMPORARY ANGLICAN PRIEST TO OPINE “Some silly words written in a book thousands of years ago won’t stop…” the gay progress! INDICATES HOW FAR THE ONCE ESTABLISHED CHURCH OF BARBADOS HAS LOST ITS WAY.

    CERTAINLY THIS IDIOT IS AN ACCURATE EXAMPLE OF THE CLEAR TEACHING OF ISAIAH 8:20 WHICH SAYS
    To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    CLEARLY THIS JOKER DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT 2 Timothy 4:2 SAYS
    Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.


  49. GP if you think that bullers are abnormal why do you WW and the rest dance to the tune of don lemon , anderson cooper, shepard smith et al and their caustic views.

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