The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – The Blackboard Jungle
For all the oral public discourse, column inches, union sabre rattling, legal disputation, child advocacy, and official pleas for due process to take its course that it might have engendered in recent days, there has been, to date, no decisive confirmation of precisely what happened in the now notorious incident of the alleged battery of a member of the teaching staff by a pupil at Ellerslie School. In consequence, much of what has passed for informed commentary so far is in fact little more than subjective conjecture on the part of the respective asserters.
Of course, there are more than a few for whom the mere identities of the parties suffice to settle the matter beyond reasonable doubt. As far as these individuals are concerned, the physical integrity of a teacher at his or her workplace is inviolable under any circumstance and the notion that there could ever be any justification for a pupil battering a teacher plainly defies rational thought.
This thesis certainly held true in my days at Wesley Hall Primary School. In spite of their taunting threats of legally sanctioned violence by some teachers , the idea of any boy reacting in kind, either in word or by deed, would have amounted to unpardonable heresy. Hence when Mr Davis solemnly promised to “rip out your balls wid a ripping iron…” (referring to the appearance of his leather strap -in those days an indispensable part of the teacher’s pedagogical armoury-), or when our beloved Mr King warned that his “Joe Goat” would “rip up your coat”, it would not have been the done thing to have our parents pursue actions for the torts of assault or the infliction of emotional distress; to respond with our own threats; or to launch a preemptive physical attack on either of them. At my secondary school, the idea of physical retaliation never crossed our minds.
These are different times, however, and a more enlightened society now mostly abhors the notion that violence in the form of corporal punishment is the cure-all for seeming intellectual laziness that may be owed rather to dyslexia, dyscalculia, or some other inherent inability to cope; or even for misbehaviour that might be a result of boredom, disinterest or distraction. Hence, the lobby for the abolition of this form of punishment is growing, a phenomenon that might serve significantly to alienate those who are fearful of leaving the certainty, though dubious utility, of the hoary shores of the old order of things.
An incident such as the one currently alleged at Ellerslie will therefore be used by them either as an argument to justify positively the preservation of the old disciplinary regime, warts and all –See what its removal brings? – or to gainsay the new dispensation as being far too permissive of juvenile anomie- a good flogging.
My views on this matter are too well known to bear repetition, but my central point on the Ellerslie incident is that it has brought to the national consciousness, at least for the first time that I can recall, that violence against teachers in schools in schools may be a current local phenomenon. Of course, from what I have stated earlier, I am not prepared to comment on that particular incident since I am not seized of the facts.
Not that this has [not] proved a hindrance to some who have not been shy to express their views on the matter in public. Nonetheless, my training compels me to believe that the truth, so far as this is discernible on earth, will be arrived at only after sworn testimony from, and cross-examination of, at least both of the parties, the relevant experts, and any eyewitnesses to the incident.
In this light, it is difficult to understand the stance of the teachers’ unions that, without the benefit of such an exercise, nevertheless demand the imposition of the ultimate sanction of expulsion on the alleged offender. They seek to justify this call -akin to that of the spokesmen for the posses in old Westerns that would earnestly advise the captured villain that he would be given “a fair trial” before they hanged him-, on regulation 29 (3)(b) of the Education Regulations 1982.
However, it is submitted that this conclusion may only be arrived after the most cursory and alarmingly inadequate reading of the provision. There is an instruction usually given to all students of law that a provision and a piece of legislation should be read in their entirety if one is to garner the true meaning.
This appears not to have been adhered to in the present case, because while it is true that the sub-sub-regulation does indeed provide expressly –“(b) expel the pupil from school”, this is one only of the two recourses that “may” be available, after an inquiry, to the Board or Committee that has been immediately notified by the principal of the suspension of a pupil by the principal “where any pupil of the of a public school commits any act that causes injury to a teacher or another pupil in the school or where his (or her) conduct is such that his (or her) presence in the school is likely to have a detrimental effect on the discipline of the other pupils of the school…” [Emphasis added].
A close reading of the regulation should have revealed that the principal’s initial suspension of the pupil is exclusively within the discretion of the principal; on such suspension, its immediate notification to the Board or Committee is mandatory; the holding of an inquiry by the Committee is discretionary; and its recourse of further suspension or expulsion on its part is also discretionary.
However, any action that is based on discretion in these circumstances is subject to the requirements of fairness and natural justice. As a result, the preliminary suspension of the pupil by the principal should not occur in the absence of a fair investigation and a procedurally fair determination of the facts of the matter; the Board or Committee should not exact either of the alternative sanctions expressly provided for unless it chooses to hold the inquiry and does so in a fair manner in accordance with the tenets of natural justice.
At this stage, therefore, calls for the expulsion of the pupil involved are arguably both legally premature and much exaggerated.
To be continued…
Barbados Underground 
Jeff
Now you really in trouble. You saw what happened to Commissiong when he tried to show reason. He said exactly what you did and was drawn and quartered. They are coming for you. You wrote your will yet? You have now committed the unpardonable sin; you did not tell the union what it wants to hear.
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That is the point most are missing, this is a different era. The old nethods , misued and abused over decades have now seen an epidemic or nonfunctional adults and emotionally disturbed young adults and children, which means the old method of verbally and physically abuse children, never worked andcwill not work now, children are aware and will lash out.
Here is where the adults need to start acting as adults, recognize the problems for what they are and arrive at suitable solutions, but no, you have a minister of education with a “crack heads and shoot some people” mentality, because he got his head cracked as a child and was beaten severely. You have teachers who were also beaten and physically and verbally abused as children, who lived what they learned and are determined to pass on that abuse, some of them..
BTW…I have first hand knowledge that some of the teachers can be jackasses and out and out a-holes.
Some of my family members have done 6th form on the island, some have passed through the private schools, the last one to do 6th form at QC, states unequivocally that some of the teachers are emotionally disturbed, this now adult was educated in grade schools in NY, university in North America, never had behavioral problems in any school from grade to uni….Caribbean or North America…never personally had problems with any teacher in Barbados, but witnessed and observed.
There are teachers who need to not only be weeded out, but retrained and should seek therapy for their various emotional problems, as I said, that was at QC in the last 6 years, am sure the other schools also have their fair numbers of disturbed teachers. If not fixed, the emotionally disturbed teachers will eventually outnumber the genuinely gifted and caring teachers.
Re the students….many more well qualified and not petty counsellors are needed in the schools, all schools, there are many, many emotionally disturbed students in the schools, these are social and environmental problems that cannot be fixed with a strap or more physical and verbal abuse, these problems were self created…over many decades.
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And Mary Redman needs some mental heath therspy.
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This column is a fount of bad ideas expressed in ancient, convoluted prose.
Jeff seems to be still full of resentment for teachers who terrified him as a young boy, but permissiveness he advocates will lead to a decline in standards.
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The word “terrified” comes with lifelong negative implications. reason enough to make one look back into a past with resentmment
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A complete overhaul of the education system is urgently needed..! Barbados is stuck in the past..!
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On the other hand we have enlightened societies like the US and UK where violence is embedded in the culture reported by the media on a daily basis in those countries. We in Barbados need leadership to develop the education system that works for us. There was a time when Bajan immigrants would pack their offspring back to Barbados confident in the education system to inculcate the grounding required.
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@ chad99999 May 1, 2016 at 7:13 AM
“ but permissiveness he advocates will lead to a decline in standards.”
A similar line of argument was proffered by the white anti-abolitionists to prevent the end of slavery.
No wonder ‘niggas’ are so uppity today demanding this and that and want to be on par with whites, right Chadd 9×5?
BTW, whose standards are you referring to? Those that reflect the beating of children, the oppression of women, killing of homosexuals and the deportation of immigrants?
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@Shaft
What ideas do you have, please share a few.
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A complete overhaul of the education system is urgently needed..
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To what…?
The one in the USA?
England?
As Chad pointed out some time ago, the systems in this current world that are best at producing ‘successful’ graduates are more like what we had when Jeff was ‘terrorised’ back in his school days…
Perhaps that is why he has turned out to be such a talent…
Presumably, Jeff would have preferred a much more permissive and non-threatening school life – and to have ended up like the Speaker of the House (who looks like no one ever bothered to cut his ass….)
Bushie knows for a fact that folks like Caswell, Walter Blackman, and most other good men are the results of YEARS of being controlled in school by even bigger bullies than they were… NAMELY TEACHERS…..especially Walter… 🙂
In the kind of ‘overhauled’ system we are now contemplating such alpha-men would all have ended up driving ZRs…
LOL
Bushie can just picture Jeff driving a ZR down Holders Hill ..with Simple Simon in the back cussing his donkey for going too fast…
Look…
The problem with education is that we do not even understand what the overall INTENT is …far less how to come up with a workable strategy for success…
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@chad9999
There is a thin line between the degree of permissiveness required to create space for critical/innovative thinking by the student and compromising quality traits underpinned by good discipline.
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Conflict resolution should form part of the teachers training at Erdiston,if it is not already on the syllabus.I do not understand why in a situation where the union speaks on behalf of its membership and does so in a manner which seeks to protect their combined interest,the union is accused of abuse of process just so.Are we not interested in facts anymore?Or are we now gladiators us and them.Politicians encourage lots of foolishness when they want votes or popularity.When it rebounds on them they become ‘powful foolish’and assume the mantle of immortality.The bane of any society is an undignified,brash,ignorant politician and this buhbaydus has its fair share of them.
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What permissiveness am I advocating, Bush Tea and Chad [with all the nines]? To suggest that the rule of law should be observed?
@Caswell, as you know, I am not anti-union, but I am also pro-justice and equity! Let them gather… 🙂
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@Gabriel
Part of the problem is that the principal actors have constituencies that are best satisfied by ventilating all issues in the public space. To ram the point have we not had to endure of late Sir Hilary, Dr. Karl Watson et al duking it out in the media? What message would they have sent to the community at large? Are they not academics employed at the same place? If they want to debate the issue why not arrange a panel discussion properly moderated to establish the right tone.
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@ David
Part of the problem is that the principal actors have constituencies that are best satisfied by ventilating all issues in the public space.
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Is it that?
….or is it more like Ronald Jones is a complete and utter jackass… who does not seem to learn from past experiences. Wuh even brass bowls learn from repeated mistakes …
…or is it that his boss is brain dead … like he looks?
@ Jeff
You are a boss.
You have a way of saying things …without actually saying them – and then being able to defend your position with admirable logic.
…But Bushie has a whacker!!
You said….
Hence when Mr Davis solemnly promised to “rip out your balls wid a ripping iron…” (referring to the appearance of his leather strap -in those days an indispensable part of the teacher’s pedagogical armoury-), or when our beloved Mr King warned that his “Joe Goat” would “rip up your coat”,
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Boss, you even have Bushie (a committed supporter of flogging … and even the execution of students if needed) thinking of the barbarity of Mr Davis and Mr King….
When in fact, all these men were doing is putting the fear of God into your rebellious donkey to keep you on the straight and narrow.
How many of your balls were ‘ripped out’?
How many of your coats were torn?
Lotta shiite!!
This was just flowery language, by men who CARED about your future in a SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS world, and did wonders to produce persons of your ilk.
Bushie says again.
Without such BOUNDARIES drawn around your donkey, you (and CERTAINLY Caswell) would likely now be a ZR driver, or worse, selling week on some block.
Do not kick down a ladder that you used to get so high up….
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As far as the Wesley Hall episodes are concerned, my point here, as Well Well recognizes, is that times have changed, a fact that we studiously try to avoid. Hence, we will attempt once more on Tuesday to transfer primary scjoo; children to secondary school v by a one-shot examination when the rest of the world has long embraced continuous assessment. No wonder some are forced to leave HC in Form 3…
You don’t know 2 times 0,,,cut ass! Oh, I now know what ancient prose Chad 9… is referring to. Words he has never seen before!
“Dyscalculia -severe difficulty in making arithmetical calculations, as a result of brain disorder”.
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*school
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@Bush Tea
How is this the case if by your many comments the brasssbowlery and jackassery permeates all areas of the society?
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Yeah Bushman…and all products of the same “cut your ass” school system, decades of the same old, tired methods.
Jeff…continuous assessment works, society will all ways have problems steeped in cultural nuances, both environmental and social, but the school system has to make the necessary changes as they trod forward, not in June be boasting how many kids entered Harrison, Combermere, Queens, St. Michael, Foundation high schools etc, yet the kids will be entering these schools with social problems that must be identified and addressed, before they escalate..ergo assessments are necessary to help teachers identify the problems, know what the students need and the best way to proceed going forward.
What is so hard about that for ministry officials to understand, by their actions, or lack of, they are disadvantaging both teachers and students.
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To Chad, please clarify to which Jeff’s ‘this column’ you refer cause surely you can’t be referring to today’s piece. At best I would offer that the same ailment Jeff’s column diagnoses for the union’s ‘expulsion calls’ clearly afflicts you also: an innate inability to read and understand what the hell you are reading.
Surely, distance makes the words less poignant or some such because I did not interpret any fear of being terrorized from Mr Cumberbatch. I did notice though that he ‘vociferously’ called out his primary school teachers- now long passed I expect – but absolutely did no such thing with those at his unnamed secondary school …smile. Touché
And Mr Bush Tea, whether you ‘believed’ in flogging or not, the fact is that there are always different modalities to achieve the same objectives. It’s really not even about whether something is ‘old fashioned’ per se. But rather that new methods have offered better results than the old methods; yet in a singular moment (of time or over a period) an old method could still be used (successfully)…. Comparative school discipline Case Study: US use of torture to get intelligence from terror suspect; experienced practitioners there also fully appreciated that physical violence was not proper or efficient as a long term tool.
Of course there were no terrorists at Wesley Hall, Erdiston, St. Giles or anywhere else in Bim education landscape but teacher ‘torture’ was used in that same context: about trying to ‘forcibly motivate’ on the upside and to ‘demotivate’ by showing the results of following the downside. A simple (even if flawed) psychology of behaviour.
Although many of those practitioners knew that you cannot make a person learn by flogging.
One needs to reinforce that not ALL teachers of the era adopted those methods. Many were ‘ahead ‘ of the shift and focused on mutual conciliatory methods.
And now just as we embrace the super trained intelligence officers who ‘beautifully cajole’ the info from the terror suspect with not a strap for flogging in site nor threats of balls be ripped-out so too there are lots of super trained teachers out there.
In both trades they would call old practitioners, dinosaurs, Mr Bush Tea. Very frightening in their time… a time now long past…extinct even!
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@ Jeff
You are too intelligent to expect to use that kind of debate tactic successfully against Bushie…. times have changed indeed… in many ways becoming even more dire and dangerous than they were back in the 70’s.
The solutions do not lie in whether we should keep 11Plus or flogging …or just post a lawyer and a policemen in each school (along with a doctor and nurse) to deal with the inevitable consequences of ‘change’….. IT LIES IN US USING COMMON SENSE TO UNDERSTAND AND AGREE ON WHAT EXACTLY WE ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE … and then on the best methodologies to be applied in getting success.
Sir Cave and CXC thinks that we are seeking to get “as many certificates and degrees into as many hands as is legally possible”.
Bushie thinks that this is shiite…. what do you think?
Well Well thinks that children should be placed in sponge ..and fed milk and honey as they grow up into spoiled brats and selfish ACs.
Bushie think that this ALSO is shiite…. what do you think?
Skippa, Life is hard, …and then you die.
Education is intended to prepare children to succeed in a real world …one that is mostly unfair, unforgiving, callous, spiteful, racist, selfish and hateful.
Pray tell Bushie how misleading children into thinking that life is a bed of roses …where everyone bends over backwards to meet your needs… helps their cause..?
This only creates more brass…
The BEST place to prepare oneself for the trauma of surviving life… is in school… But to do so, school MUST hone the skills, character, toughness, intelligence and patience needed to meet the shiite that life WILL present later on.
Is it any wonder that Froon and his gang of useless academics have no clue of how to approach their responsibilities?
…Bushie bet you that none of them had Mr Phillips or Mr King….
Probably some ‘nicey nicey’ woman teacher (like Donna) who talked them into submission, fooled them into thinking that life was easy, …that they just had to talk shiite (like Stinkliar) …and things would work out….
lotta shiite!!!
…even now their asses want cutting….. 🙂
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@ Dribbler
We have had this argument before.
Bushie pointed out then that, while being a committed proponent of flogging, (even executions where called for,) Bushie has NEVER had the cause to hit ANY child….. and Bushie has dealt with more children than most ever will…
The problem comes from these all-inclusive arguments that ‘flogging is bad for some children, so it should be banned’
Banned Shiite!!
Children are complex creatures. An approach that works wonders for Jack could well be totally destructive for Jill. Teachers must have the flexibility (and the wisdom and responsibility) to adjust. So when some JA bans flogging …what does the teacher do when a young Bushie or Caswell turn up in his class and seeks to take over the shop…? (as Caswell tends to do 🙂 ) ….smile and throw him a kiss…?
Steupsss. ….The fear of Bushie’s parents finding ANY cause to plaster the young bushman’s donkey is possible the ONLY reason that terrorism was not invented back in the 60’s in Barbados….
…and any hint that a teacher had cause to share lashes would have precipitated an avalanche… But of course, those were teachers that really CARED…. REALLY!!
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Ha-ha….the Bushman, I raised five children, the two males now in their 30s, now understand why I was never a soft touch, but they are still pissed at me for using my brains, not the whip, to stay ahead of them…..given that the teachers have a class of 30 or less pupils pushing the limits, they should be even more skilled at outwitting kids, in this day and age, they should be quick on the uptake.
My 3 daughters, 2 of them mothers, pissed off as they used to be with me, stopped speaking to me at one point., now they employ the same tactics with their children, even more rigidly so…new methodologies, even if you have to make it up as you go along.
Now everyone loves me, even the pissed off ones, I ignore them and focus on the grands….another missing link, the extended family.
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@Bush Tea, agree to some extent that the commodification of certificates and degrees may be “shiiite” (as you put it) but, unfortunately, that is the nature of the world we live in!
I do not agree however with your assessment of what WW&C is trying to say…who wants to create a selfish spoiled brat? Nor do I believe that violence ids the answer…that becomes, as it may have in the instant case, an eye for an eye,,,and then the whole world will be blind!
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@Jeff, re “Hence, we will attempt once more on Tuesday to transfer primary scjoo; children to secondary school v by a one-shot examination when the rest of the world has long embraced continuous assessment….” ————-
The two things are not mutually exclusive.
As much as the common entrance is a scary and emotional experience for many kids it is also a first step in the life of a person who must endure and indeed explore competitive pursuits.
We must have our best schools and we must have some rational way to determine access to them. If, for example we only use continuous assessment at primary school and from those metrics selected the students to attend Kolig or QC or St. Michael’s the nepotism outcry would be heard without electronic amplification all the way north.
And for those that will suggest that we thus need to make all the schools capable of being the best…I preempt by saying OK. But that is first and foremost a psychological and sociological issue which is not solvable in one generation.
Anyhow, yes the system needs updating but please identify exactly how. In parts of the first world we assign kids (secondary/high school) by district allocation but even in those locales we have top public schools which are reached via merit based exams and then there is a proliferation of private schools and now in some other locales there are private/public partnership hybrid schools.
So for example the worst schools (based on index survey results) are closed and reconstituted as a ‘charter school (PPP)’ or even segmented into multiple schools to allow ‘better’ management by size (docility/diffculty) of students and so on. In short and to be blunt, we shake up the Parkinsons, St. Lucy Secondary and so on and refashion them into new, friendlier places with a more stringent metrics on standard for success by staff and students.
At the end of the day its surely about standards, striving for success and getting modern students to a move to the modern drum (electronic of course) beat…but the basics of competitive tests will always be there in some form in conjunction with community work, long form projects and other examples of the student’s abilities beyond a single exam.
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@ Well Well
Wait …
Did you not resort to sending one of your children to New York to be exposed to ‘the reality’ of life …after the shiite school she was at …left her confused about reality?
You just exposed her to possible serious consequences in the pit of NY… and came out lucky.
These lessons are best thought in school..by caring (but firm, strict and FORCEFUL) teachers
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@ Jeff
The ‘way of the world’ is the route to perdition.
Also, Well Well does not intend to create spoiled brats, but the methodology that she espouses INEVITABLY does.
There is a way that SEEMS right to mankind, but the end thereof is the way of death and destruction.
@ De Dribbler
We like we batting on the same team today yuh..
Bushie going retire and let you punish the bowling… 🙂
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And Bushman…that’s just it, they all, the politicians and other social leaders on the islandm including civil servants, all had their asses cut, unless they went to schools like St. Angela’s that had the Montessori type foundation, Convent, St. Gabriel’s or St. Winifred’s who tend to use other methods. ..or…they were the type of kids who were invisible, never brought attention to themselves and always respected and fearful of teaches, but given their current behaviors as adults, politicians etc, that did not work either, neither did the beatings, so what we now see are social behavioral problems displayed by adults, as well as students.
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@Bush Tea,
“The ‘way of the world’ is the route to perdition…”
“There is a way that SEEMS right to mankind, but the end thereof is the way of death and destruction…”
Exegeses, aphorisms…or just the scare tactics of another Fat Controller?
Why not just listen to the beat of one’s own drum?
I know, I know… the end is nigh, right?!
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Yep as I read your post saw that too. But one disagreement…I gotta go so you bat though.
Jeff is an excellent bowler with both new and old ball but WW&C will definitely offer several bad balls and with today’s pitch not assisting too much no wickets here. A century is on tap for you. I gone.
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Bushman…I fail to see your reasoning, my children were mad at me growing up because I refused to spoil them, you do not have to beat children to enforce that they should not be spoiled and should adhere to discipline and that they have a responsible from the day thry lesrn to string two words together, to control themselves, ya dont have to beat anyone to teach them that…..
example..my last daughter liked to suck 2 fingers, they do this from inside the womb, to stop her from doing this I gave her a soother, it was time for her to start kindergarten., but of course she wanted to carry the soother, wrapped around her hand., I let her do it for one week, then let her know that if she continues to do so, her friends she just met and liked, will laugh at her, fine, she got up, threw the soother in the garbage and that wss the end of that…
Bushman…now tell me how many kids you know were beaten to within an inch of their lives, had chicken poop, dog poop, aloes and all sorts of really gross things wrapped around their fingers to stop them from sucking them….and still sucked them any…did the beatings work Bushman. I saw grown men and women in NY sucking their thumbs.
Ya better learn, if you dont know…how to outwit children I used to play chess and dominoes with my children.just for that reason.
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DPD, I do not fundamentally disagree with you…the devil is in the details.
I think we pay too high a regard to perceived academic achievement. I say “perceived” because I was in class with boys at Wesley Hall that were far more gifted than some I met at my unnamed secondary school. In modern parlance, academic brilliance is not a destination…it is a journey! Some start the journey at 5, some at 7, some at 11…some at doctoral level, Some…never! But that is one facet of life only…
Later, BU!
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Bushman…I too have a good memory and I said it was someone I knew and it was a good thing….there are many culturally inked social problems in the schools in Barbados and many of the problems are crested by the adults in and around the environments in which children have to grow up, these problems affect children, negatively. …to say the least, adults on the island do not allow children to grow as children.
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I am perplexed why others can’t understand (and agree) with Jeff Cumberbatch’s position on the Ellerslie issue. The next time a teacher is accused of some malfeasance I expect parents to call for that teacher’s immediate dismissal IN THE ABSENCE of any investigation and adjudication of the facts.
@Mr Cumberbatch
I am told that a child under 16 must be attending an approved school. Parents have been prosecuted for their children not attending school without good reason. If the 14 year old is expelled from Ellerslie then what happens to her? Does she get a transfer to say QC? Someone may suggest the Government Industrial School. Can a child be sent to the GIS without the consent of the parent and in the absence of judicial review and sentencing?
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@ Well Well & Consequences May 1, 2016 at 9:48 AM
“And Bushman…that’s just it, they all, the politicians and other social leaders on the islandm including civil servants, all had their asses cut, unless they went to schools like St. Angela’s that had the Montessori type foundation, Convent, St. Gabriel’s or St. Winifred’s who tend to use other methods. ..or…they were the type of kids who were invisible, never brought attention to themselves and always respected and fearful of teaches, but given their current behaviors as adults, politicians etc, that did not work either, neither did the beatings, so what we now see are social behavioral problems displayed by adults, as well as students.”
LOL!!!
Good one there WW&C!!
You got the Bush Tea fella floored and totally out of it with that solid punch to his intellectual solar plexus.
That is a conundrum not even the Bushman’s BBE can explain.
The Bushman would fart and ask the devil to write his name on it before his BBE can solve that one.
Where did all those old-fashioned parents and disciplinarian for teachers with their sadistic love of child flagellation go wrong?
Fumble’s parents must be crying over their Foundation-boy picaninny who later fell under the direct tutelage of Cammie T the best?? MOE Bim ever had.
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Informing a strategy to address the fault lines in our education system must be done based on what we want to achieve as a society. There is no right or wrong approach dealing with this issue per se. it is about desired outcomes. The state of our society points to a revamp needed in education we all agree?. Arguments steeped in personal experience must be disregarded as frivolous. Those of us who are intimate with how the system operates will concede there is enough blame to go around. Where is the Bajan Lee Kuan Yew. There was the decision by Castro and the revolution to attack a literacy problem by instructing students to teach less fortunate students. He delayed exam taking for 1 year for those students. The sacrifice of a few for the good of all. And what was the outcome?
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@ Ping Pong,
if she is expelled AND the appeal to the Minister is unsuccessful, then the Ministry must allocate her to a school or approve one that the parent(s) have found for her.
As you rightly point out, a child under 16 must attend an approved institution of learning. The GIS is not in issue, that is a rehabilitative institution for convicted juvenile criminal offenders, as far as I know…
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While I am an admirer of Lee Kuan Yew (and of Castro in some regards) one has to admit that both operated in dictatorial regimes.
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…. and Mary Redmond (whom I do admire) could quote law and regulations but not the one on mandatory school attendance?
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@David
Part of the problem is that the principal actors have constituencies that are best satisfied by ventilating all issues in the public space. To ram the point have we not had to endure of late Sir Hilary, Dr. Karl Watson et al duking it out in the media?
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What’s wrong with reasonable debate via the media between two antagonists with differing opinions? Do you think a panel discussion between Beckles and Watson would have changed their respective minds? The situation with Jones/ Shepherd/Redman is a different kettle of fish they all lead large organisations and are tasked with the responsibility of reducing tensions and acrimony but they succeed in ramping it up and nothing gets resolved or it simmers until the next time.
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@Sargeant
A fair comment however BU’s point of departure is based on the fact the Bussa issue is a contentious one with a racial overtone. Sir Hilary has stated both he and Dr. Karl are in agreement up to a point, surely as academics it should not be that difficult to dispassionately debate the issue devoid of the media noise.
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What the hell!!
Bushie leaves Dribbler to knock off the few runs needed…and he just put down the bat and gone just so…
Sigh!!
Thanks David for your 10:18.
Well Well (as seems to be the wont of the females among us) makes sweeping decisions about what ‘works’ by reference to her four children….
Has she ANY IDEA of what it must have been like to be Bushie’s mother?
…talking shiite about a soother? … a SOOTHER???
Shiite Well Well, Bushie’s mother claimed to have a .38 …AND the legal right to use it …since (she argued quite convincingly to a young Bushie) she had brought Bushie into this world, and she therefore has the RIGHT to take Bushie out of it…” That made sense back then yuh!!!
More importantly…
That shit worked!!!
You done KNOW where Bushie would have told you to stuff that soother…!! 🙂
…and don’t talk about Caswell..
If wunna think that Caswell Ingrunt now, wunna should have seen what Bumpy and Pilly had to deal with….
Life is COMPLEX…. don’t rule ANYTHING out… THINK!!
What do we want to achieve?
What are the options available?
Which is the most practical approach to achieving success…?
…and sometimes, the SIMPLE (but perhaps crude) answer remains the best…. especially for brass bowls who cannot even decide on how to dispose of solid waste … or how to get water to homes in a flat little shiite country…
Why invest in space-ship technologies for something as CRITICAL as education …when we cannot even master shiite disposal?
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In life, sometimes it is necessary for real leaders to declare WAR … with devastating consequences for everyone….. when circumstances makes that decision the best one available…
NOBODY said that life was a bed of roses….. NOBODY!
it is a developmental process designed to produce DIAMONDS of character. DIAMONDS are not created in an environment of milk and honey…. but in one of great heat and pressure….
..and the better the quality of diamond desired, the higher the pressures and temperatures needed…
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@Ping Pong
It is possible to demonstrate leadership in any situation.
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Corporal Punishment;11 Plus; UWI funding; Student discipline; Teacher/ Administration dysfunction:
Fasten your seatbelts it is going to be a bumpy night (ride)
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In my layman’s opinion……..If an adult kicked,punched and spat on another adult it would be considered a “criminal assault” and can be delt with by the Police.
This same act by a 14 year old should be treated as an assault by a child that needs counselling and or Psychiatric treatment.
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“dealt”
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@ Hants
A child in school is in a ‘learner’ mode. It is when they get to learn the ways of the world, so that when they become adults they will know better than to commit ‘criminal assault’ ..and need to be dealt with viet armis (by police or otherwise)…
There therefore must be provision made in school for mistakes to be made by students …. mistakes which can become valuable learning tools for later life….
Teachers therefore need some degree of flexibility in managing the school environment in order to allow the complex variety of interactions and learning opportunities needed to produce successful students.
The truth is that if in your whole school life you never participated in a fight, or had to apologise for doing some shiite – then you are perhaps short of a valuable experience when you hit the workplace …and for example, your supervisor takes an unnatural liking to your donkey….
What we need URGENTLY in school is to have our best, most-dedicated, and CARING resources, paid and supported to create a learning environment that will produce future golden bowls…
Hopefully then we won’t have a whole generation of jackass adults waiting around for foreigners to bring them ‘investments’ and work – while robbing them of their birthrights…
Shiite man … when Greenverbs could rob so many thousands of our school graduates; deposit the proceeds in OUR Central Bank; and then walk bout the place wid a chain round his neck ….and not been hung by that same damn chain ….. we KNOW that some shiite is not working with education…
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@Bush Tea
An interesting last point when juxtaposed to the information known on the ground that our most experienced (best?) teachers have been lining up to exit the service. The other point is that if we agree students have to be counseled in certain situations we must also be aware of whatever message being sent to the rest of the student population.
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The Bushman. ..your operative word are “BACK THEN”..this is a new era, what worked back then and that is very arguable is obviously not working now.
“Shiite Well Well, Bushie’s mother claimed to have a .38 …AND the legal right to use it …since (she argued quite convincingly to a young Bushie) she had brought Bushie into this world, and she therefore has the RIGHT to take Bushie out of it…” That made sense back then yuh!!!”
So dont you think my children knew I am always well armed, I never even had to show or tell them the calibre…lol.
Miller…the the Bushman is a beat master…lol
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Jeff’s comment on academic “brilliance” kicking in at different parts of the education journey is very true, mine kicked in at uni level. Konkieman went through HC doing Bs and Cs and were it not for the forceful teaches of that era (mid to late 70’s), I would not at least had the necessary qualifications to enter university. I now have a Masters degree, and I thank the Bdos school system getting me to this point, because as a teen, I was lazy and not too interested in education. Also a mother who pushed me hard!!!
I got one cut ass along the way that kept me motivated not to get another. Both my sons are also uni grads, but I assumed the role of Bdos teacher to them as the teachers they had in Canada and US were not as focused on making responsible adults out of them. One son is now a high school teacher in US, and he pushes his students hard, and has got good results from kids in a poor depressed neighborhood.
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@ Well Well
Some things are timeless…. hard work, love, dedication, training and preparation…
Your being ‘well armed’ did not mean squat to your children – one of them was more likely to shoot you …than the other way around.
On the other hand, Bushie’s mother probably never saw a real gun in her life…. but she knew how to intimidate an “up-and-coming” radical ..and to ‘out-bully’ a wannabe bully… 🙂
LOL
Bushie has never yet beaten a child (after school days fights of course) …and when the Bushman tried the “.38 thing” with his children they nearly ‘dead wid laugh’….
Fortunately, with them, money talked… ha ha ha
@ David
Here is a way that you can recognise a WELL RUN EDUCATION SYSTEM…
….Great teachers NEVER retire until they practically cannot walk…. They actually become part of the institution.
…Retirees from the alma mater BEG to return to pass on knowledge, experience, inspiration and love to current students… to give back…
…Young graduates from the alma mater willingly act as role models, provide funding for current students with challenges, and continue to appreciate its contribution to their lives…
…Lousy teachers leave hastily – they are MADE to do so by people of the ilk of Georgie Porgie. People who do not stand for shiite; do not take any prisoners; and who gives no quarter when it comes to standards..
…Just having ATTENDED such a school becomes a STAMP of being educated – no matter what academic shiite papers a graduate managed to accumulate…
Can you see morons like Froon, Jones, the mop-headed woman etc creating such an environment?
..when pigs fly.
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@Those who wanna use the rod
I grew up with a parent who believed “sparing the rod was spoiling the child”. I had my tail cut whilst I was at HC about 3 to 4 times. I can hear some old HC guys saying “3 to 4 times? He was a monster then”. A few decades later, I still feel it was two to three times too many and I have often asked myself “what was the point? Would it have been any different if I had money or a lighter complexion?”
We already know that no teacher who is a Lilliputian would dare hit a Goliath of a student. So who will be getting these floggings, the weak, the poor, those who don’t have representatives… That is why I am opposed to hitting children.
A teacher should never hit a child. Also, I believe that parents can correct a child without hitting him/her.
I smile, when I see the proponents of flogging whipping themselves into a frenzy about punishing students by whipping them.
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I’ve seen a few parents posting videos on facebook of themselves administering punishment to my children. Most times I smile because the parent that truly have demons know not to go hitting them. And why on earth do you have to show the humiliation of your child on FB,
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my children= their children
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We always seem to define discipline in our school system as whether to flight or not.
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The Bushman….I dont understand what kind of kids are being birthed in Barbados, but right now I am monitoring my 2 month old granddaughter, she is innocent, easy to mold and follow instructions in another 2 years, as long as she is being given the right instructions, devoid of distractions, you are sounding ss though women are giving birth to hardheaded beasts and there is no middle ground, no ability to mold or direct…that was not my experience rsising children.
If that is the case re the existing behavorial problems, the society is doing something very wrong on the island and are churning out automations not raising children….which makes the teachers jobs harder as they too, some of them, would have been raised the same wrong way.
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Y”our being ‘well armed’ did not mean squat to your children – one of them was more likely to shoot you …than the other way around.”
But they didnt Bushman, that means I did something right…you are the one have to mold the child from birth, some are starting from the womb. The child dies not get to mold you, you are the adult, so therefore something is going very wrong between the birth and the age of 7, when the child has already developed it’s own personality.
Some European countries do not send their children to school until they are 7 years old, I can see why, personally. Who says all children have to be at the same level academically at all times, it’s rubbish, children develop better academically if they are allowed to do so at their own pace and not some system induced psychosis for boasting about academic achievements, the 11+ is crap and should be scrapped…it’s unnecessary, I tell you from experience, you do not have to take the test to become a scholar.
It may have had it’s uses “back then”…post slavery, although I am yet to see how.
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If the adults only see themselves as antagonists and are unable to work together towards solving problems then the children will suffer. Since children often mimic the adult behavior that they saw displayed, their problem solving and conflict resolutions skills will not develop properly. Lacking the maturity of adults, they may not stop at words as adults would , but may often reach out and strike those with an opposing view.
Perhaps we need to look at the messages we are giving to the children. If you don’t like what you see in the mirror, then change yourself.
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Interesting that the Bush Man brought his children in a similar way to how I brought up my own (very little hitting), but yet we hold very different opinions…
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It is clear to me that few Barbadians understand the difference between “instilling discipline” and “maintaining order”. If the former is done well then the latter is rarely needed. In the short run, it is however easier to maintain order (or attempt to do so) than to instill discipline.
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@ Konkieman
Jeff’s comment on academic “brilliance” kicking in at different parts of the education journey is very true, mine kicked in at uni level.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Man stop telling lies do!!
what kicked in at what uni level what!!??
You was bright from the get go…
Skippa, all like now Peter W pissing he-self because he did not pass for HC ..and you casually gone through there without a sweat ..and talking bout ‘kick in at uni…” ??!!
You was just wuffless ..like Bushie and Caswell and as you pointed out, good, caring and FIRM teachers provided ‘incentives’ that were meaningful enough to show us the error of our young ways… until we saw the light of maturity….or as Tank would say ‘If you want to be a man in here ..then you have to leave”…
@ Gazer
Steupsss … don’t go down that ‘unfair’ road. Leave that for Donna and WW&C.
You thought that life was fair?…. and yuh mean you are still under that foolish impression?
You know how many times whole classes got their asses cut – all for 1 villain?
…and why would a serious teacher waste his time cutting a white boy’s ass? did such students need to apply themselves to succeed? Or did they have idiot parents who wanted them treated like they were already adults?
Think teachers foolish? why do you think that current teachers don’t give two hoots except for their pay?
90% of students will NEVER need to be even threatened with the rod… but the 5% that CRITICALLY need to have their asses cut …can potentially create more havoc that wunna can ever imagine…
@ WW&C
You like Ponka – all over the place…
Just deal with your own children and grands – and DO NOT become a teacher…. not of alpha-type boys…
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Bushman just likes being argumentative and more than likely prefers to see other people’s kids getting their ass cut, but not his own Gazer. Public schools in the US are iffy, kids stand a better chance in private and parochial schools, again social and behvioral problems, by both teachers and students.
If the child does not suffer from personality or mental disorders, also the parent (s), because they do exist and the child is molded re discipline, self control etc from a very young age, 2-7 and beyond, there is a better chance of success….but, the child cannot be a latch key kid raising itself, at least one parent should be home most of the time, but since most fathers are always absent….absentee fathers, see where this is going Bushman, it’s difficult for mothers to go it alone as most of the extended family are also absent and/or uselessly contributing to the problems…back to social behavioral problems. ..again.
The bajan society is obviously failing because of the chase-the-money mentality everyone is too busy to pay attention. ….nothing else seems more important, particularly the children.
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Bush Tea wrote, “Bushie has never yet beaten a child” “Fortunately, with them ( his children ), money talked”
Yet Bushie want other people’s children to get da ass cut.
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@ Gazer
You ever heard of walking softly …while carrying a big stick?
When children KNOW the consequences of doing shiite, they hardly ever need to feel those consequences.
When you broadcast to one and all …that you do not have a stick; …will never hit a fellow; ..and do not have the stomach for a fight, you are ADVERTISING to the 5% of idiots, vagabonds and terrorists of our world, that you are easy prey…
What do you expect as a consequence?
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Bushman…my children are near middle age 40s or mid 30s they have to look out for themselves and their children, that’s what parents are for….grandparents are there to guide only, although I found that grandchildren tend to listen to grandparents better than parents….I should have had the grands first….lol
I am all over the place..you want to be stuck on beating and abusing other people’s children, but not your own, that is sadistic. You make it same that women are giving birth to small animals who cannot be molded from very young, the government should then start clinics teaching parents to mold their young, children do not come with manuals, if you do not have experience in parenting, it’s trial and error until ya get the experience, but by then ya may have screwed up a few of your children because you did not know any better yourself.
So Bushman….come with better solutions than just beating, what is it about beating you like so much…more child advocates are needed ya only have one on the island. More counselors in the schools, well trained counselors, not gossips who are part of the problem, like at the child care board..
And I know a few HC boys from the 70s who got whopped by teachers and now walk the streets or are so mentally screwed up they cannot hold a coherent conversation, same for Lodge, Combermere etc, you must have been one of the invisible ones, but you witnessed the beatings and that is all you wish on students…now tell me am wrong,
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It is amazing how institutionalised brass bowlery has become.
Our world is literally falling apart.
‘Education’ has become meaningless…
Not a shiite is working..
…and our ‘best and brightest’, instead of looking to get to the root of the rot, are obsessed with sentimental shiite talk about …if Bushie wants to ‘beat’ other people’s children.
Mind you, Hants knows about cricket and fishing and WW&C knows about lawyers’ crooked schemes …. not a shiite about teaching, education or national social development.
Listen… wunna feel free to keep on modelling the white people’s ways… install metal detectors in the schools, have police on standby to respond, and make provision for the gang beatings, drug sales and mass shootings…..
…Just don’t EVER let a trained, professional, caring school teacher have the option of giving a cut-ass to your little demon in the name of discipline…
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@ WW&C
…nobody beat you and look how you turned out….
ha ha ha
LOL
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And teachers should not be fighting with children.
You bribed ya children, ya lucky you are not a pauper. I tried that crap once telling my daughter that every subject she gets over 80%, she will get $100US…next thing ya know, she is not bringing home less than 80%, all the way to college….university was over 200k. Worth it in the end, but not the brightest idea.
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To repeat, we seem to distil all the problems of the education system by discussing flogging or not. See Ping Pong’s last comment. It is a complex world where parental delinquency creates problems in the teaching setup many on this blog have no idea.
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If a survey was taken to aggregate the numbers very few children are flogged in the system BU is willing to bet. We need to fast forward the discussion to real issues in the system.
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Bushman…ya know our age group over 50s would have gotten a beating now and again, not abuse in my case, but undeserved bestings nonetheless, some thought that was how children should be raised, beat them consistently…not knowing children lived what they learned….now look at the results Fruendel, Carrington, P and called it disciplinearris, although he had the good sense to knpw that he did not have to go to HC etc to rob the geniuses, or use them….name any crook you know and it applies, I even forgot yardfolw AV, she must have been beaten every minute, she still dont know which way is up…lol.
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*AC….
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Foreword: Before, you start to think that TheGazer was not an “academic success”, let me assure you that I have done extremely well in/after school.
Is it possible that the experience at the HCs, QCs Cawmere, CPs and other schools was not the same for all of us. I see a few here waxing poetically of their high school experience and yet I would dare say that for some of us it was a quite different experience.
Perhaps, this would explain why some here are unable to understand the problem of youths in the schools of Barbados. In their minds, their time in high schools were their halcyon days where they sat at the feet of the masters and collected pearls of wisdom. They tell themselves as “it was so great for me, then it must be great for others. If it is not, it is because they are deficient in some way”.
A few here harken at the deficiency of our educational system. Could it be that this system failed our brightest by dulling their senses so that they can only regurgitate a variation of what they read in school or at college. The education that should have opened their eyes only served to blind them to the realities of the world that they live in. They live in little cocoons and retreat to those pockets in their minds where they are safe. Little do they realize that they sat at the masters feet with blindfold over their eyes; ignorant of the fate and experiences of others.
It is a tale of two school experiences.
So we will sit and debate the union, the teachers and the students and in the end we will have no real answers; but we will fix this problem and push our heads under the sands and then we will repeat this conversation when the next incident occur.
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Bushman…that’s just it….if you the parent instill the requisite controls and discipline in your child from very, very young…neither the teachers nor the principal would have cause to beat your child…unless they are looking for a cut ass too.
It has to be started from the child is very young and easy to bend and mold….again, there is no other way. Ya find the crap kids do are cute until they reach the age of 2, after that, unless you control the situation, it’s not cute anymore, it becomes annoying…by the time they reach 10, it’s dangerous and very difficult to reverse, but why do I have to pound this in your head Beatmaster…you do not beat your children, so you should know all of this already…
Why wait until the child can no longer be controlled. .prevention Bushman..prevention.
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Had to fix the errors in this one…
” not knowing children lived what they learned….now look at the results Fruendel, Carrington, Parris and called it discipline, although Parris had the good sense to koww that he did not have to go to HC etc to rob the geniuses, or use them….name any crook you know and it applies, I even forgot yardfolw AC, she must have been beaten every minute, she still dont know which way is up…lol.
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Oh lawd, Mr Bush Tea. Many years apart my old man described Clive Lloyd and then Viv Rchards as swipers. The second time he put up his hand to forestall my riposte. And just smiled. He fully appreciated their batsmanship ability. Just didn’t like their style having been weened on Everton Weeks, Worrel and that level of silky smoothness.
You just like that. The folks – even me – can’t often appreciate your style. But bat for my life yah can. I will still cuss yah when I survive but I want you to bat. It’s dem regular cross-hauls and hoicks over de top which so overpower the sweet cover drives and sublime hooking off the cap-peak that causes de problems. LOLL.
Now. I never said that you want nah body children to get flogged…but I clearly heard de point that the ability to instill discipline, corporal or otherwise, should be part of the tool kit of the school principal.
I further understand you to be saying that it is from an abiding desire to help the youth develop that every serious Bajan teacher even contemplates flogging. And as I know from talking to my teacher relatives it is a last step along a path which involved much long talk and other guidance.
Thus, based on what I understand of your comments and know it is distressing that folks equate teachers who use flogging as an extension of their curmudgeon personality with those who flog to instill some discipline and indeed maintain order, to echo Ping Pong.
It’s a bit of a stretch but…you can’t equate the teacher who perverts youthful minds with sexual relations to the teacher who genuinely falls for an older student and pursues him/her after school leading to a relationship or a marriage. Unless you look at it with the correct understanding they both will appear heinous!
Anyhow Mr Bush Tea…great to bat wid you today. Tomorrow or another day back on opposing team …fah sure…loll!
A few other agreements —- “…You was bright from the get go…” — Tru dat he was, but still validates Jeff’s point of late blooming.
—- “Skippa, all like now Peter W pissing he-self because he did not pass for HC” — Late blooming thing again. That is a problem we face dat iffin you din go to HC, QC etc you is basically poor dog meat. Nonsense of course but still to dis day it’s a nuisance pain for some.
And what must be your ‘piece de resistence’: “…and why would a serious teacher waste his time cutting a white boy’s ass? did such students need to apply themselves to succeed?…”
Very perceptive, dat. Very. But today de ‘cut ass’ (read discipline) is an affront and no longer de ‘tough love’ that was used to save many ‘hard-ears’ intelligent Black boys. I wonder (suspect zero) how many White students from Bajan public schools can speak to the story of getting a cut-ass at school and then getting one at home too from their parents …To your point there was a totally different dynamic about why a flogging was applied.
So Mr Blogmaster you are correct that these debates always devolve to a absolutely misguided distillation of ‘flogging or not’ and misses the point. Mr Bushie has said it well that we are much the poorer for strong, intense discipline. It has NOTHING per se to do with flogging.
So I remain confused why based on the HC and other high-end vintage of de many bloggers here that there is still dis great misunderstanding…I is poor dog meat as described above but it seems clear to me. Oh lawd.
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Correction, that should read: “Now, I never HEARD IT said that you want nah body children to get flogged”
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@jeff
The Union’s premature mouthings on the Ellerslie issue have more to do with 1. Retaining, gaining or stealing Secondary School members and 2. Gaining leverage in the battles they are losing or have lost.
The BUT does not support BSTU on the SBA issue. The BSTU does not support BUT on this Minister meeting issue. They both want to be the “leading” voices on violence and other issues. The public suffers as a result.
He who shouts loudest is heard first, sometimes unfortunately so for those who hear.
Just observing
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@Observing -As lawyers say, I am instructed!
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I can’t really comment, since I was spanked only once in school, by a principal whom the children alleged had only one stone. We called him “One-Stone” so yes I suppose that he had grave emotional problems as a result of the “One-Stone” thing, and yes I suppose that more than 50 years on I should forgive him, especially as he is long dead.
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@Bush Tea May 1, 2016 at 7:44 AM “Bushie can just picture Jeff driving a ZR down Holders Hill with Simple Simon in the back cussing his donkey for going too fast.”
No, no, no. I would cuss his donkey for going too SLOW.
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Silly Bushie,
The politicians of which you speak grew up in the age of licks. Heck, some of them went to school with me and some of them my father taught so I could tell you. The teachers used to walk around with sticks and straps and did not hesitate to use them. But you never let the facts deter you when making a point so…..
Now, I never read my son fairy tales because I didn’t want him to grow up stupid. There are ways to make children aware of the harsh realities of life without giving them a deliberate foretaste of the abuse. That is if you are creative enough. By the way, I have found that children who were for the most part happy in their childhood are more able to deal with life as an adult. Some studies suggest that stress has a cumulative affect and one’s ability to tolerate stress may decrease over time (due to the effects on the brain of some hormone or the other). So that a child who experiences excessive stress will be LESS able to handle it as an adult.
But what do I know? My name isn’t Bushie.
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To be specific, my father taught Froon. And he just recently told me that he favoured YOUR methods. So really, you have NO POINT!
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@Donna May 1, 2016 at 11:54 PM “Now, I never read my son fairy tales…”
That is a great pity
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I read him other much better stories.
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Almost forgot! Great column, Jeff.
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Lol….the Bushman ya see the results of all those beatings on students now playing out in Parliament. .Froondel, Sinckler, Jones, Carrington, McClean, Lowe, Lashley. .etc, on the yardfowl side AC, etc, yet you still call for more beatingnof students, still calling it discipline, to create a more toxic environment for taxpayers, more punishment for the people….. why.
Did I mention Leroy Parris….makes all the HC, QC, Combermere “geniuses” who are politicians look like 2 penny crooks, while robbing all the 98% literate population their life savings and he did not have to attend any of those high schools to do so, with a smile.
Not only do you not read fairytales to children, there are books with more realistic themes, but you do not feed them santa claus and the stork fairytales either. Teach children reality and they will know what to expect, will be able to function within reality.
Mold and shape them while they are young, starting at 2, when they are stringing words together and starting to use their brains against you, the parent…not at 10, the year before the stupid, insipid common entrance test. There are more than enough books on childrearing for guidance, for those who actually read.
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As I was leaving yesterday, I noticed that we were beginning a discussion about ‘discipline’ and ‘floggings’.
The super rich in Barbados are not foolish. They have learned to divide themselves into two groups and thus ensure their interests are always represented having the two halves support a different group. Regardless of which of the two parties is in power, the needs of the super rich are addressed.
I saw one ‘fool’ solving the problems of racism by insisting there is one race and therefore there is no such things as racism.
Next, they were some who tried to point out that some of us missed the distinction between discipline and punishment. Let me state that a mother whose son dies as ‘collateral damage’ feel the same pain as a mother whose son was the target.
The “brass bowls” are not foolish. And if you use a five-dollar world or make full use of your thesaurus, they are going to translate it to their two-dollar world. So talk of instilling discipline and maintaining order ,means only that you are “cussing” and want to give the ghetto man’s son a cut ass.
You may call it bovine excrement, but the ghetto man and his lady call it BS. It is a tale of two dictionaries.
And guess what… as bad as things are and as crooked as some people are, the small words man and his lady are not foolish and the expected landslide never materialized and instead there could be a three peat.
I am always telling my son “People are much smarter than you give them credit for”.
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*by having each of the two halves
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Your father thought Froon????
Shiite … that explains everything….
Including you.
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Wrong again, Bushie!
My father taught Froon using YOUR methods. He never used them on me. Sooooooo……
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But wait, Bushie though – you insulting my father now? Has he insulted you? Stick to insulting me. You sounding like the little children at school- “ya mudder!”
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Here we go ,again.
Mum wants action against teacher
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