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Submitted by Terence Blackett


In 1492, when Columbus was making his voyages through the Caribbean, it is said that the Native West Indians (American Indians who had travelled South) could not see the sailing vessels approaching on the distant horizon. Their brains could not process the information due in part to the fact that they had never seen such large galleons before. It was only after constantly looking out onto the horizon that spatial recognition transformed the ships into physical objects of reality creating a new consciousness in their minds.

The philosophy of consciousness is inherently a fundamental part of the universe just like scientific issues of matter and velocity. Human spatial awareness is inherently a God-given attribute which has always existed and we each have our own individual consciousness as part of this larger collective consciousness. The exploratory concept of proto-consciousness however assumes that every living thing is also a part of this spatial consciousness, and that each living being has to some extent varying levels of what we term self-consciousness.

This is fundamental to our understanding because it is said that we are only seeing and experiencing the tip of a quantum mechanical iceberg. If our brains can process 400 billion bytes of information per second โ€“ then why are we only using 2000 bytes which involves our spatial recognition and understanding of time-space distanciation, our physical bodies and its [5] primary senses and our evolving and changing environment? Are we even capable of going beyond the realm of mere superficial consciousness – migrating from a loci of sensory perception to another proto-consciousness state? And what can the science of quantum mechanics and quantum geometry allow us to understand about our own levels of human spirituality if anything at all?

Arguably, the materialist aspects of quantum science have been obsessed for decades with measurable, observable phenomena in the hope of logging empirical data in spreadsheets, graphs and tables. The irony has been how can science account for the billions of bytes of information processed daily in the human brain which remains randomized and unaccounted for and cannot be allocated a definitive tabulation or an analytical framework. If we think of the eyes as analogous to the lens of a video camera (which when recording sees more than the images that is within its focus) โ€“ then could it be that our brain processes so much more than is perceptibly possible but because of innate prejudices and judgments as well as social preconditioning, we are only allowed to see what we want to see?

Science is beginning to recognize that the world between our two ears and the observable world out there BOTH carry an intrinsic harmony which is measurable and quantifiable at some points and at others points pose menacingly niggling questions which call for hypotheses, theories and oftentimes conjecture to make sense of them. Scientists who have for years been grappling with sub-atomic physics continue to be baffled as to where atoms and particles appear and disappear to and some of the answers are frankly nothing more than human guess-work. One of the challenges even within the realm of quantum mechanics is the question of where TIME* goes. Does it go backward or does it go forward? And can we alter time? In the Bible, it is recorded that a prophet did!

Eminent researchers like Dr. Amit Goswani are forging a new pathway in the science of quantum theoretical science which looks at this whole idea of the fusion and merger of modern scientific theory with ancient philosophical pathways as a way of understanding our world and for those of us who choose to come to a fundamental understanding of Intelligent Design caused not in part but in the whole by an Intelligent Designer.

The spiritual and religious notion of a Creator GOD* continues to evoke all kinds of emotions amongst many within the scientific establishment and in the public square of secular humanist philosophy are many disingenuous thoughts and the haranguing of epistemic modal logic by those who seek excuses to disavow knowledge of anything outside of their [5] base physical sensory attributes. This is where not only science hits the wall but where common men stagnate in perpetuity. Within their brains is this discombobulation effect – an almost permanent loss of desire to activate the hidden resources of the mind, recognizing the quantum effects of all of those bytes of disused information prevalent in the mind which go undiscovered, undeveloped and unused fulfilling the Scriptures which says โ€“ “where there is no knowledge or โ€˜visionโ€™ people continue to perishโ€.

If Dr. Goswani is correct, then the physical things around us are merely movements of consciousness and by choosing these moments and movements we translate these things or as Heisenbeger termed them โ€œtendenciesโ€ into the realm of consciousness. But they are many theoretical physicists who have a problem with this position because of the controversially radical nature of it.

For example, Quantum Theory espouses this notion of Quantum Positioning which puts a myriad of possibilities in both our past, present and future actions. And from those multiple of positions come the power to choose a distinct position where all other multiples collapse into that one determinant choice. So Quantum Mechanics ask the question โ€“ โ€œcan we go back in time and change our choice and/or our position?โ€ Science believes โ€“ yes it is possible based on current quantum trends available now which influences all the possible positions which ultimately produce the best possible outcome as we go into the future. So the choices we make now determine our past and ultimately affect our future.

As human beings, we have long been taught to accept that the created things are set, separate and distinct from our own individual reality but this is not really the case. In the same way, notions and ideas of a Creator God within the context of theoretical science posits this narrative that there is no basis in empirical science for any appreciable understanding of spirituality.

But is that really the case?

In the book “The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist’s Case for the Existence of the Soul” – Mario Beauregard has concluded that, “Individual minds and selves arise from and are linked together by a divine Ground of Being (or primordial matrix). That is the spaceless, timeless, and infinite Spirit, which is the ever-present source of cosmic order, the matrix of the whole universe, including both physis (material nature) and psyche (spiritual nature). Mind and consciousness represent a fundamental and irreducible property of the Ground of Being. Not only does the subjective experience of the phenomenal world exist within mind and consciousness, but mind, consciousness, and self profoundly affect the physical world…it is this fundamental unity and interconnectedness that allows the human mind to causally affect physical reality and permits psi interaction between humans and with physical or biological systems. With regard to this issue, it is interesting to note that quantum physicists increasingly recognize the mental nature of the universe.”

The basis for quoting Beauregard is that in our last article a few weeks ago, we looked at Stephen Hawkingโ€™s M-Theoretical position in his work entitled The Grand Design which to many of us was another throw of the dice to prove the possibility of the non-EXISTENCE of a GRAND DESIGNER โ€“ a position which has proven incoherent and pointless.

Hawking in his landmark work “A Brief History of Time” – suggests that: “If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we should know the mind of God.” Yet in the said book he argues that the existence of God was unnecessary to explain the origin of the universe… Is that a contradiction as well as a denial of his own assumptions or merely the mutterings of an overcharged brain?

Hawking’s early research work in the book “The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time”, cites that: “It seems to be a good principle that the prediction of [God] by a physical theory indicates that the theory has broken down, i.e. it no longer provides a correct description of observations.” So while Hawking tried to dispel the possibilities of God in using Quantum Geometry to box God out by some mathematical theory – the sad irony is that he and his cohorts have again failed in their insalubrious quest to undermine The Creatorโ€™s existence.

What is truly astonishing is how quantum science has opened up a whole new world of endless possibilities to mankind yet for the most part we are stuck in this neutral vortex of inertia about the world around us and the โ€œmagicโ€ (used in an imaginative context) that life offers to us if we were but to open up our minds and our souls to the limitless possibilities we have available to us. But the fault may lie with the pace of life and the fragmentation and flux we experience as the world we have created โ€œbobsโ€ and โ€œweavesโ€ out of control.

A final question asks – can we individually and collectively affect the reality of the world around us at the deepest subconscious level? You better believe we can! It has been proven time and again that we create our own world โ€“ a gift given to us by God at the moment of inception. The deception however has been that we have been spoon-fed lies about how we can change not only our thought process but also the trends and the observable, empirically tested realities which greet us every day.

One dramatic case in point was a group research study in the murder capital of the United States โ€“ Washington DC. It was shown that in the summer of 1993; where [4000] volunteers came from over a 100 different countries to collectively meditate for long periods of time during the day as a way to reduce the capitalโ€™s crime rate by some 25%. The DC Police Chief went on television stating that it would take two feet of snow to reduce crime that summer. The wonderful thing was that crime in DC did fall by 25% that summer and the Police Department did collaborate in the research work which had already seen similar successes in [48] other smaller studies.

The argument is clear โ€“ denying a scientific basis for spirituality has proven false and the objectification of reality can summed up in a simple passage of Scripture โ€“ โ€œAs a man thinketh in his heart so is heโ€.

There are empirical proofs that our thought process does influence the existential world around us and only God Himself truly understands the full capacity of manโ€™s potential and his ability to chart his divine destiny in this life with repercussions for a world without physical limits or esoteric boundaries to come in the distant future. The choice however is ours. We must understand that the time for straddling fences has almost run outโ€ฆ

If we are what we eat โ€“ then we are what we think! This is a water-study by Japanese Dr. Masuru Emotoโ€ฆwhich clearly proves our point!


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215 responses to “Is There A Scientific Basis For Spirituality? And Can Quantum Mechanics Map A Space/Time Continuum For Proto-Consciousness Which Invariably Frames A Solid Argument For the Existence Of God?”


  1. @CH….

    Well done Techyโ€ฆ The Monks will be proud.

    But, then, who is the target of the waving?

    You lost me on the Monks thing……BUT……. wouldn’t the ‘target’ of the waving, also be the ‘target’ of the clapping?

    Feel free to insert as many ‘new’ variables as you choose ๐Ÿ™‚


  2. @Techy: “…wouldnโ€™t the โ€˜targetโ€™ of the waving, also be the โ€˜targetโ€™ of the clapping?

    Similar… But different.

    @Techy: “Feel free to insert as many โ€˜newโ€™ variables as you choose…

    Sorry… For a brief moment I thought you were a student of Buddhism….


  3. @CH

    since we fail to communicate on a point which we obviously agree on. What was your purpose for correction. Did I not say one hand can produce a clapping sound Isn’t that TRUTH in what I said. First of all the heart of the matter is TRUTH. Sometime which you seem not to understand. Now You can clap with or without hands . Applause please!


  4. @ac: “Did I not say one hand can produce a clapping sound Isnโ€™t that TRUTH in what I said.

    Sure.

    But what you failed to appreciate is that a clapping sound cannot be made without one surface striking another.

    Some students spend years coming to terms with this reality.

    The deeper lesson is that the surface being struck need not always be one own’s.

    And, even deeper… that sometimes silence is golden….


  5. zoe says”TRUTH “is ABSOLUTE. Wrong! showing of evidence or Proof must be verified before it is called TRUTH!A person can believe whatever they chooses but that does not make it the “TRUTH”


  6. @CH
    WHAT surface. Doesn’t Lightning produce the sound of clapping thunder through electrical enegry generated by water. I did tell you in an earlier comment that your presumptions are always wrong as you try to analyze what a person thoughts are. I did emphasise that by clapping with one hand a sound can be produce. That was your question and i responded in kin. Now you are throwing into the mix surface. well then how can a sound be produce in the case of lightning making the sound of thunder. Speak truthfully and no semantics


  7. @ac: “Doesnโ€™t Lightning produce the sound of clapping thunder through electrical enegry generated by water.

    Perhaps Mother Nature is a Buddhist….


  8. The Somoans changing their clocks is purely artificial and does not alter time itself.

    One of the interesting and counter-intuitive implications of Einstein’s theories of relativity is time dilation i.e. time slows down as one approaches the speed of light. This has been proven by an atomic clock on a plane that flew around the earth, no pseudoscience there, just agreement between theory and experiment.

    I disagree with the comment that time infinite. If one accepts the big bang model then time began 13.7 bil years before present and will end when the middle aged star called the sun dies, just as the billions of other stars in the ocean of galaxies in the cosmos do. We live on an insignificant planet on the edge of a galaxy among billions of galaxies. It is we who put planet earth at the centre of our multiverse.

    Science has gone far beyond the Babylonian science that influenced books on which some people still solely rely on for guidance. I prefer not to be stuck in 800 B.C . I also donโ€™t profess to understand how God operates as some do. Can God make a weight so heavy that he cannot lift it?

    I believe that God manifests himself in nature and it is the natural world that has the โ€œfingerprintsโ€ of God not some esoteric spiritual realm. Just ask a christian what the holy spirit is and see if you get an intelligible answer.


  9. @scientist..

    As Einstein showed us, it is simple to travel backwards in time.

    All we need is infinite energy…

    For an instant…,


  10. @CH

    Yes time travel is theoretically possible. We just need the energy of a star.


  11. Time is but our measurement of a moment of energy state, a finite measure for a dynamic situation, thus not really appropriate per se.

    For example, two scenarios. The first, a movie clip or a photo album. Rather than look at the issue as if we wish to leaf through a photo album, we must look at it as a movie clip.

    As each frame passes, the energy state has changed thus is no longer. It is not possible to rewind, the specific energy state has passed, hence unviewable, the frame has dissolved.

    Alternately, think of a wae in the sea, as a specific wave passes, it moves to shore, the energy state has passed, making way to a new state, the original wave cannot be recreated.

    So, now, at this current time, we are in a specific energy state, it is not possible to fo back to that that existed in say, 1930, because that energy state is long gone, not possible to recreate.

    Now, consider us having the ability to travel faster than the speed of light.

    All light does in effect (albeit it is energy), is enable us to see what is occurring ‘across the way’.

    If we are at kensington watching cricket, and Edwards is bowling, if we decide to go to the wicket at the speed of light, all we will succeed in doing is getting there faster than light will travel to us.

    It is not that what we would have seen has not happened, it is just that we will get to the viw point faster.

    In other words Edwards will bowl, but we will be closer, we cannot stop the ‘energy state’ where he bowls.

    You may argue that if we can travel fast enough, then not only can we beat the light, but the energy state, but I would challenge that as more likely, we might meet a void of some kind, the point is, at the moment we ‘decide’ to go to the wicket, the specific energy state where he is bowling, has passed, it is simply not possible to recreate, no matter how fast we travel.

    The confusion lies in trying to apply a finite measure to a dynamic model.

    Certainly the idea of time travel is fanciful and interesting indeed, but unlikely.


  12. On travelling faster than the speed of light, I can see it enabling physical travel to distant galaxies, enhanced space travel, if one has enough energy for such.

    Now, as to whether ‘soul or mind’ travel is possible, I will not say yay or nay, but think about it.

    What is imagination, is it merely fanciful ‘ideas’ or does it have more ‘tangible’ (sic) uses?


  13. TIME is and will always be. There “is” no beginning of TIME and there will be no ending of TIME.


  14. @ac, Time, in our understanding of it, will always be i.e. there will always be a continuing energy state.

    That does not mean that our Sun, galaxy etc will always be here, but the related energy shall, in one form or another, be somewhere…..

    But yes, ad infinitum…

    The bigger question is….how do our souls relate to the energy state and how do they exist…ad infinitum…individually or collectively?

    Any action or waves are energy and therefore exist, therefore by inference…our minds exist…as energy and are thus technically ‘tangible’.

    Some will argue that it is the brain waves that are tangible, but if there is no soul i.e. if the body is brain dead (even on life support), there are no waves.


  15. @AC

    If time always existed then it follows logically that the universe always existed. Based on your model which has a temporal no-boundary condition there is no allowance for a “creation” event since the universe and time were always here. Therefore, if you believe that time is like an infinite flowing river then my only conclusion is that you donโ€™t believe the universe was created. Otherwise, you are holding on to two mutually inconsistent models of the origins of the universe
    which is somewhat paradoxical.


  16. Yes scientist Time has always existed . Time is intangible and cannot be seen with the naked eye .That is why we have clocks and calenders just like maps that guide us through this galaxy we call earth. In order for the universe to be . Time was its first begining and that included darkness and light and the air we breath. Therfore without them they would be no universe called it what ever you please it is what it is and always be. Being fixated on creation only gets in the way of Truth and fools one mind into believing an ABSOLUTE which cannot be proven! Even is everything is completly destroyed on this earth. Time would continue.
    Now scientistclose your eyes and think about that! TRUTHFULLY!


  17. @Crusoe!

    Agree with your comment on May 12 /2.26 am. Very insightful.If one think about it. One would understand the very important role Time played in the existence of the universe and eventually giving birth to mankind. It is also natures way of keeping all thing in order!.


  18. @CH
    I have an experiment for you .Get a piece of BOard and strike it as hard as you can and let me know if it makes a clapping sound. according to your “Surface ” theory.

    BTWI am also inclined to slap your butt as a way of geting a clapping sound!


  19. @ac: “BTWI am also inclined to slap your butt as a way of geting a clapping sound!

    Sorry… I don’t swing that way.

    I’m a little surprised you do….


  20. @CH,

    Methinks ‘ac’ is actually a girl, sir.
    ๐Ÿ˜‰


  21. Modern secular scholars tend frequently to forget how ardent a theist Newton was, and how central a role this theism played in his metaphysical outlook. In fact, Newton makes quite clear in the General Scholium on the “Principia” which he added in 1713, that absolute time and space are constituted by the divine attributes of ETERNITY* and OMNIPRESENCE* He writes:

    “He [God] is eternal and infinite…that is, His duration reaches from ETERNITY to ETERNITY, His presence from INFINITY to INFINITY…He is NOT eternity and infinity, but ETERNAL and INFINITE. He endures FOREVER, and IS* everywhere PRESENT*; and by existing always and everywhere, He constitutes duration and space. Since every particle of space is always, and every indivisible moment of dura IS* everywhere, certainly the Maker and LORD of ALL things be never and nowhere.” Emphasis added.

    That TRUTH IS* ABSOLUTE, is confirmed by specific entities, over a wide range of reality right here in our limited human sphere of investigation and experience, to deny this is to be ignorant of facts and evidence!


  22. Because God IS* ETERNAL, there exist an everlasting duration, and because He IS* Omnipresent, there IS* an infinite space. Absolute TIME* and SPACE* are, therefore, relational in that they are contingent* on the existence of God.

    In Newton’s view god’s “NOW” is thus the present moment of ABSOLUTE time. since God is not “a dwarf-god” located at a particular place in space, but IS* Omnipresent, there is a worldwide moment that IS* absolutely present. Newton’s temporal theism, therefore provides the foundation for absolute simultaneity. The absolute present and absolute simultaneity are features first and foremost of God’s TIME, ABSOLUTRE TIME, and derivatively of measured or relative time.

    Clearely, the classical Newtonian concept of time, is firmly rooted in a theistic worldview. A wise and perceptive scientist!


  23. @Zoe
    How did you come to the onclusion that TIME and SPACE are contingent on the existence of GOD.! When TIME has been always in existence and does not need a creator to exist.


  24. “ALL THINGS”, (Gk. Panta) (John 1:3) as we also have it in I Cor. 8:6; Rom. 11:36; Col. 1:16, “were made” (Created) THROUGH HIM* (Jesus) and without HIM NOTHING* was made that was made”

    In verse 10 John uses ‘ho kosmos’ (the orderly UNIVERSE) of which TIME* and SPACE* are also included, as “…without HIM nothing was made that was made.” (v.2b)

    TIME and SPACE could NOT BE* without HIM* therefore, “ALL THINGS” came into being; Creation is thus presented as a “becoming” point of TIME (i.e., TIME and SPACE) (ginomai) IN direct contrast with its Creator* who ALWAYS WAS* (eimi).

    Therefore, NOTHING existed, (Time, space, etc) before HE Created IT, and EVERYTHING* IS* held together, consist, by and through Him, because He IS* before ALL THINGS!
    Period!!!!


  25. Christopher Halsall | May 12, 2011 at 7:18 PM |

    @ac: โ€œBTWI am also inclined to slap your butt as a way of geting a clapping sound!

    Sorryโ€ฆ I donโ€™t swing that way.

    Iโ€™m a little surprised you doโ€ฆ.

    Crusoe | May 12, 2011 at 7:31 PM |

    @CH,

    Methinks โ€˜acโ€™ is actually a girl, sir. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    @ Crusoe….
    Let de man speak for himself nuh?!?
    LMAO!!


  26. Let’s start with the premise”All Things were created by HIM. Does that mean bad things too. So for you (zoe) to quote the bible in such as fashion as your way of making a point can do the opposite of what you set out to prove .
    It is because of TIME everthing was set into motion. Even our birth and live span is determined by TIME in as much as all living species plants or animal. The universe in its formation took Time. It was not an accident that all things came about .time was the powerfuil and determing factor as to when the universe formed as the way w esee it today. Therfore one would be foolish not to see or understand that before God there was TIME as is and always will be. .Didn’t God use TIME Foremost in what is known in the bible as the creation. No way in the Bible does it say that GOD created TIME!


  27. @CH
    Keep it clean! The subject matter did not include “Swinging” What in the hell are you thinking! Must i remind you that your assumptions are usually wrong again!


  28. @ac…

    Everyone else got the joke.

    Why didn’t you?

    Humor is so very subjective.

    Isn’t it?


  29. @ Who said I wasn’t Laughing! Apparently the joke was on you “Gender wise” Now i am really LOL. Now Take your TIME to digest what i’ve said!


  30. @ac… LOL…

    Now there is no question that you are a woman….


  31. Finally!!!

    @ac….

    I like the point you have made…….reminds me of that old question…”Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?”


  32. If one would be TRUTHFUL the word “THINGS” would apply to that which is tangible. for our eyes does not have the abilty to see the intangible. ref. air time and the speed of light and energy. Therfore when one tries to connect such things as Absolute in the physical form. It is untrue and deceiving to themselves andothers.Even though we can comprehend the actions only through thought process.


  33. Wow….

    Never read ac in this way at all.
    You getting real philosophical these days though ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Just now, you will be waxing lyrical like TB, writing emphatically like ZOE and reasoning like Bush Tea.
    BU to the world!! ๐Ÿ˜‰


  34. But then again Techie. TheBible asked”How can one belive in things one cannot see yet do not believe in things which can been seen, that was in reference to GOD.


  35. ALL things, that our Almighty God Created were deemed by Him as good, as He CANNOT even look upon Evil, as there is NO variableness nor shadow of turing in HIM*

    As I have already quoted from HIS* WORD* a number of times, so do I again:

    “For by HIM (Jesus) ALL THINGS were created, that are in heaven AND that are on earth, VISIBLE and INVISIBLE* whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS (visible and invisible) were CREATED* through HIM and for HIM. And HE is bofore ALL THINGS (visible and invisible) and IN HIM, ALL* THINGS CONSIST” (Col. 1: 16-17).

    Note carefully, that here in God’s divinely Inspired Word* both VISIBLE and INVISIBLE* things, (space, Time) were created by HIM, and, again, reference to ALL* THINGS used (3) times in these two verses, logically, and by inference can only be referring to invisible aspects of the Created ‘kosmos’ Universe, which includes SPACE and TIME, which IS* qualified by HIS specific use of ALL THINGS* (3) times, and HE does NOT lie, so when HE says ALL* THINGS, it stands that way, SPACE, TIME, ALL THINGS!

    Further:

    “Every GOOD gift and every PERFECT gift IS* from above, and comes down FROM the Father of lights, with whom there IS NO variation or shadow of turning.” (James. 1:17 Emphasis added).

    This IS* God’s Word, not spurious speculation!


  36. Paul is writing to the church at Colossae. The church is is supposed to be having contradictions in their teachings .Paul’s Words to the church are those of emphasis to reminded them about Christ and the creation. However if anyone reads the Book of Genesis and the creation the things that are mentioned it does not include TIME. Paul work was that of keeping the church from falling apart and the laws and rituals of the past was a hindrance in doing so. Paul likeness to VISIBLE And INVISIBLE was to that of GOD being reveled to man through CHRIST. which was an example that for man to comprehend an invisible force one like GOD . Man must be able to see such. if one believes the bibleone would see that the INVISBLE GOD God revealed himself in the flesh through CHRIST. Our minds does not have the ability to see the unseen
    “Christ is the VISIBLE likeness of the “INVISBLE” GOD. Col. .1 vs. 15. as with TIME we cvan not see it nor can it be created . Unlike the example of GOD becoming FLESHwhich PAUl did explained to the church in his teachings.


  37. Zoe interjects unreasonable logic into the word ALL. GOD in his ultimate wisdom knew that man would not be able to understand the unseen so in as much that he had to revealed HIMSELF according to bible teaching.Teachers of the bible should stop imposing such illogical superficial thinking on the minds of people as GOD himself did his best to debunk such teaching according to the Bible. as he did through CHRIST.


  38. “ALL THINGS”good as zoe said’ However the GOD of the old Testament the “CREATOR” didn’t he not violate his own goodness when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their unbeliefs. Where was the goodness and compassion for the people.


  39. Zoe whileyou at it. Did God created Darkness?


  40. Everything is of the universe, good and’bad’ , positive and negative, ying and yang, matter and anti-matter, all is of the Almighty, all is one.


  41. @ Technician
    “…waxing lyrical like TB, writing emphatically like ZOE and reasoning like Bush Tea.”
    **********************************
    …you see how trouble does start…?
    …what ac reasoning like Bush Tea what?
    Everyone knows that ac has the distinct ability to wax lyrically, write emphatically and to use seasoning like bush tea, …. amazingly, this ability is unimpeded by any lack of understanding – even self admitted – on ac’s part.

    In other words, ac is female and she has intuition.

    With respect to the moot…
    Both time and physical matter as we know it were designed and made (created) for the expressed purpose of facilitating this phase of the experience that we call ‘life on earth’. From the BBE perspective, these are just temporary facilitating concepts, and REALITY is actually a completely different experience.

    Consider a chicken farmer who builds a barn and installs lighting and ventilation systems to facilitate high productivity. Do you think that a 100th generation fowl could conceive of any other reality than that barn with its artificial environment?
    Do you think that ‘any chick’ (ac, LOL) would be able to conceive of the fact that the farmer actually exist in a completely different reality -outside of the barn?

    The Bush Man is not calling ac a fowl, (LOL) but BBE is much like the farmer…. who has created his barn (universe) with artificial environmental constraints (time, space, atrophy etc) – to facilitate his designed intent.

    Ultimately therefore, TRUTH is that which has been determined and prescribed by BBE.
    (do you think that ‘truth’ in the barn could be anything other than what the farmer prescribes…? which ‘arbitrary chicken’ (ac?) can decide who will be slaughtered or who will be layers? -much as some would like to…. LOL

    Wanna fowls can complain as much as wanna like, it will not change the fact that we are part of a grand project conceived and created by Big Boss Engineers. It is a brilliant design; has been flawlessly executed; and will shortly be wrapped up.
    Full stop.

    ….but don’t mind the bush man, the lotta long talk has been interesting and fun to follow…carry on smartly.


  42. @Bushie

    So you are saying that although humankind is generally accepted to be blessed with free will it is contained within BBE’s schema?

    Therefore the reality of now is divorced from the future forming?

    Help the lowly BU household to understand Bushie.


  43. @ac, You are obviously confusing two different points from two different verses in Colossians 1: verses 15 and 16, as the term ‘INVISBLE’ is used by Paul.

    Yes, ‘INVISBLE’ as used in verse 15, is with specific reference to Jesus, as “…the image of the INVISIBLE God…”

    But, in verse 16 that follows, Paul IS NOT using ‘INVISIBLE” with any reference whatsoever to God, the Father, or to Jesus, as you erroneously and incorrectly believe, as you say:

    ” Paul’s likeness to VISIBLE and INVISIBLE was to that of God being revealed to man through Christ.” WRONG!, WRONG!
    , WRONG!, ac, you are maligning the Word of God, taking it entirely out of context, which then becomes a pretext!

    In verse 16, Paul IS NOT dealing with or using the terms ‘VISIBLE’ and ‘INVISIBLE’ with any reference to God’s being (i.e., invisible) or to Jesus being (i.e., visible) of God the Father, NO! NO! NO!

    Commonsense reading of the verse is very straightforward:

    “For by HIM (Jesus) ALL things were CREATED ( that are in heaven and that are on earth, (What are they) VISIBLE and INVISIBLE (what is the reference to?) whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL* things (as referenced above) were created through Him and for Him.” (v. 16 emphasis added)

    Once again ac, you obviously have no idea re Almighty God’s absolute Holiness, Justice, and Righteousness, which HAS to PUNISH and JUDGE ALL* Sin and unrighteousness, as HE did in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah; vis-a-vis His absolute “GOODNESS” which is for those who live according to His Holy, Just, standards, IN Christ Jesus.

    Yes, God did create Darkness!


  44. @ David
    ….Therefore the reality of now is divorced from the future forming?
    **************************************
    You lost the bushman with that question D.

    However…
    The question about free will is a good one, and like all of these ‘complex’ matters, is actually quite simple and straightforward to understand if you want to…

    Look!
    BBE created man ‘in his own image’ for a specific purpose. But if you think about it, there are a few fundamental design problems that would have had to be addressed…
    1 – BBE are by nature and definition, beings of RIGHTEOUS character.
    2 BBE is not subject to limitations of time, space or atrophy
    3 – BBE has free will, and therefore exhibit righteousness because of a NATURAL CHARACTER to choose to do right (as opposed to being ‘robotically’ programmed to be ‘good.)

    Now how would a top class engineer like MME go about solving these problems…?
    He would establish a pilot project.

    First of all he would create a limiting environment which provides all the conditions needed.
    Then he would create “subjects’ in the desired image, with similar but limited characteristics to his (such as the ability to create, think, design etc)
    Then he would need to provide the OPPORTUNITY to these subjects to choose FREELY between righteousness and any other desired options.
    Finally, the designer would establish a time frame for which the project would be run….

    QED – you have ‘life on earth’.

    One of the key objectives of life on earth then, is to provide an environment where these ‘subjects’ are able to exercise full freedom of will to choose as they wish.
    …of course in order to do this, the designing engineer would have had to provide ALL OF THE POSSIBLE CHOICE OPTIONS to these subjects…

    Therefore he would have HAD to CREATE the Devil, Light, Darkness, wealth, poverty, war, peace etc etc.

    ….Can you see now why he may have looked at his creation and declared it to be PERFECT (for the purpose for which it was designed…?)

    ….simple stuff D!


  45. See Bushie this is why we run from this argument from you all the time because it becomes kafuffling.

    How could BBE create subjects with limiting characteristics i.e. limitation to think, design and yet have free will? How are the two positions compatible?

    To the question you did not understand it was a simple one Bushie. The realities of now, the present informs the future.

    When you toss in free will it means the future cannot logically be predetermined.

    If the BBE has it all planned then it means free will is a misnomer (no disrespect of course).


  46. @ David
    Methinks that you have been listening to ac…. LOL

    How could BBE create subjects with limiting characteristics i.e. limitation to think, design and yet have free will? How are the two positions compatible?
    *************************************
    …these are NOT mutually exclusive items.

    Limited characteristics have absolutely nothing to do with the ability to exercise free will. Cuhdear, look around you and you will see free will being exercised every day by everyone – from clear fools to MME.

    Here is the issue.
    The only thing that CANNOT be created (in any other way) is character. By its very nature, a person’s character is the summation of their collective experiences, learning, growth, mistakes and exercise of free will.
    RIGHTEOUS Character has to be developed.
    The whole purpose of the project then, is to provide a crucible which is ideal for the refinement of righteous character.

    As the bushman’s been saying for years now, the only REAL lasting asset that we can accumulate during our lifetime is a righteous character.

    Your point about free will being limited in terms of future results is flawed.
    The fact that BBE (who operates outside of our time/space limitations) can see the results of our free choices does not, in itself, limit the reality of such freedom of choice.

    If the chicken farmer gave his chicks the option of drinking easily available dirty water or hard -to-get clean water, would the fact that he ‘knows’ the end result for the majority of fowls be a limitation on their free choice…?

    True, BBE has it all planned, but the details of which chickens choose to build character and to resist the temptation of the dirty water- are very individual choices. The bushman can assure you that there are many high fives in BBELand -when the occasional chick fights its way through to the clean water…


  47. So….before the BBE or God decided to create all this, what was going on?
    When did he started planning all this creation?
    Who created God, Where did he come from?
    Did he decide to create man and the animals, the Devil, the angels, the dinosaurs and everything under the sun, to follow a pre-conceived set of directions with dire consequences (free will seems obsolete)?
    Or are we to just accept that he was there and go no further?


  48. The end is here !
    One week more left for the world
    ENJOY !
    MAY 21 IS JUDGMENT DAY
    (source) Advocate News Friday May 13 , 2011 pg.39


  49. @ZOE

    I was mistaken clearly you have mastered quantum physics.

    @TB
    You are on a fruitful path,may many truths be revealed to you.


  50. @Bush Tea
    Can you explained to the viewing audience HOW TIME was created .I will await your response! WOW! How intersting Character can’t be created but TIME can Where is the logic. Are you not aware that character is a part of oir physical as well of our spirtual being.We were born with character a definite part of our overall being. IT is important since we as indivduals must be accountable for ourselves
    Btw To equate animals to Human when it comes to the abilty to Think is ridiculous. Even the bible distinctly gave man control over the animals. The brain power of an animal does not even come close to that of an human. i really don’t see the comparison in your farfetched theory .

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