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Israel Versus Palestine, Seems Like Total Destruction No Solution

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The six-ship convoy had set out to carry 10,000 tonnes of aid from Cyprus to Gaza, despite repeated Israeli warnings that it would not be allowed to reach the territory

The video shows the Israeli soldiers descending to the ship. The video also shows some passengers on the ship brandishing sword like weapons. The Israeli government claims the ships were warned not to approach its territory. The organizers of the flotilla left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and is reported to have been boarded by the Israeli while in international waters.

We all know the answer how this conflict will end. The nuclear outfitted Israel with support from the globe’s only military superpower the United States will have its way. When will it end? Well it seems like total destruction no solution.

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635 responses to “Israel Versus Palestine, Seems Like Total Destruction No Solution”

  1. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Zoe

    Nobody is better at deception and lies than the Israelis…they have proven it time and time again. They have resorted to stealing the identities of innocent citizens in neutral countries to carry out assassinations. If you want to believe any and everything coming out of the Israeli Foreign Ministry, you are certainly free to do so.

    I suggest you purchase this book and read it: http://www.ostrovskyfineart.com/bookDetails.aspx?BookID=1

  2. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Anyone here watched the movie Angels and Demons?
    Seems like this situation is following the script to a ‘T’.

  3. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @GP….

    You said..’That is a nonsequitur my friend. Whether believers stand on the side of Israel or not the prophecies with respect to Israel are even now being fulfilled, and will continue to be fulfilled.

    Not trying to be difficult sir but how can a non believer NOT stand on the side of Israel?
    Would this not be going against the scriptures as you, Zoe and Dictionary are at pains to explain?

  4. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Georgie Porgie

    Let me ask you a serious question: Are you sure that biblical prophesies with regards to Israel naturally unfolded, or are certain events being engineered by man to give the appearance that prophesies are being fulfilled? It seems very likely to me that the British could have given the Jews a home in Palestine with the intention of aiding in the fulfillment of the prophesy. Or was there some other important reason for Britain deceiving the Palestinians and providing a home for the Jews in Palestine?

  5. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    The problem with our ‘religious fanatical folk’ is that they have a persecution complex. These people are consumed with the concept of being persecuted and made to suffer ‘for his name’s sake’.

    As a result, they cherish the thought of being ‘hated’, cursed and ridiculed as it reinforces in their minds that they MUST be on the right track.

    Bush Tea hates to be a spoiler (…..nah!! not true, Bush Tea LOVES being a spoiler LOL) but when one manages to become hated and despised because one has become a bully, a tyrant, and a hateful and nasty person (or country), then one is only fooling one’s self about being hated for Christ’s cause.

    This is the fundamental error being made by the BU Trinity, by Israel and by many other so- called christians.

    Jesus was not “hated and eventually crucified” because he was nasty and unpleasant to neighbors, Romans, Jews or indeed to anyone. Jesus ONLY DID good to those he met.
    He had immense knowledge and understanding, and yet tolerated and entertained very common people.
    Indeed, Jesus’s only conflicts were with those who purported to know the ‘truth’ but misguided the people; those who were charged with dispensing justice but were crooked; and those who should have known the truth, but had no faith.

    Israel is a misguided, lost, nation of arrogant and hateful miscreants.

    They may well be God’s chosen people – in which case God must be totally pissed with them….and we can expect that they will suffer appropriate consequences. (because a people ALWAYS get exactly what they deserve)

    For those ‘christians’ on BU who have ‘Israel -like’ personalities, by seeking to attract hate and disdain by being rude, abusive and hateful, and by crushing anyone who challenges them- … the Bushman would like to point out the following:

    As a ‘christian, you are rather expected to become living examples of God’s character. That character is typified by LOVE. You are supposed to stand for TRUTH, respect, righteousness, peace, and charity.
    You are supposed to love those that hate you; to help those that seek to harm you and to pray for those who seek to destroy you.

    …..believe me people, you will be shocked at the number of haters who will come after you when your values are honesty. truth and justice.

    Israel is intended to be, and can be, a light to the world of the character of God.
    Instead, they have trusted in the power of America’s Arms and the ability to destroy any possible challenge to their supremacy.

    Fools.

  6. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    See the text of the Balfour declaration below. The reason given for providing a home for the Jews in Palestine:- “sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations”.

    Foreign Office,
    November 2nd, 1917.

    Dear Lord Rothschild,
    I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
    “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country”.
    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours sincerely
    Arthur James Balfour

  7. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    Very well put Bush Tea.

  8. Checkit-Out Avatar
    Checkit-Out

    GP;

    Would you consider these cases as examples of prophecies?
    A mother constantly tells her son “Yuh wunt hear, you is a good-for-nothing idiot. Yuh gine dead bad”. The son grows up, becomes a gangster and eventually gets killed while carrying out a robbery. or;

    “You are bright, you’re a good boy, leave out dem bad boys you want to play with, study day and night and you’ll be a doctor someday”. The mother does her best to minimize the influence of the bad boys in the neighborhood on her son, the son grows up, gets a scholarship, goes to University and eventually becomes a GP.

    Do they have anything in common with the prophecies that were drummed into the consciousness of the leaders of the Jews of the consequences of their wicked ways and the eventual fulfillment of those prophecies through the decimation of the Jews by the Romans and their remnants fleeing to all corners of the Earth from the lands inhabited by both them and the Philistines? The Roman’s victory over the Jews was not miraculous. There was some element of self determination. Wasn’t there?

    Similarly, The Jews have in the last few centuries used to the fullest their claimed special relationship with God, their usurious monetary practices and other characteristics to cow other nations, especially the US, into allowing them to get away with practices that no other nation could – eg. Check out the USS Liberty affair – All the while using the blackmailing issue of the Revelation prophecies to bring everyone to heel.

    It may be possible that we may be rushing headlong into a man made Armageddon. But I think that it will not be caused by a mysterious miraculous circumstance but by ordinary men and women using ordinary nuclear and other nasty new weapons. It might be an armageddon started by circumstances that could have been nipped in the bud long ago if a number of nations had not made choices that were largely informed by supernatural fear of a people who in reality were no different to them and had no greater call on or access to God than themselves .

    Science has been responsible for increasing Mankind’s knowledge of himself and his environment, including Space, to unprecedented levels at this time. There is a real possibility that mankind can evolve into what the Jesuit priest and scientist, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, called Point Omega, I think.

    The centrality of the Jews in the narratives of the Old and New Testaments and their exclusion of all others from a knowledge of a Universal God in a world made up of one species of Mankind would seem to have been the catalyst that skewed the narrative to an overwhelming acceptance of the role that the Jewish people will play in a coming apocalyptic armageddon. But does this have to be so or is it so because the Jews wrote the book and not the Africans or the Chinese or even the Arabs (as far as the New Testament is concerned)?

    The Earth, like all the planets and moons in our solar system have been hit by large meteors and asteroids causing apocalypses over the eons of existence of this solar system. Another hit might be in the offing but I don’t think that there has to be an imminent Armageddon and Apocalypse triggered by the Jews even though traditional explanations of Revelations suggest such. But I might be wrong.

  9. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.

  10. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @Zoe,

    Does the enforcement of a blockade justify killing?

  11. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @BT,

    Well said.

  12. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @GP,

    Now Georgie you see that I reached out to your fellow theologian, but I did not get even a look in my direction?

  13. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Techie

    Why is it that Christians believe the world hates Israel?

    It was predicted
    And it is evident isnt it?
    I think we should watch and see how the story ends.
    ‘Thats what I am going to do.

    BT all I can say to you with your continued judgemental remarks is that
    1 I know whom I have believed and
    2 he promised to continue what he began in me
    3 YOU WILL NOT BE MY JUDGE AT THE BEMA. How I thank God for that.
    You are obviously without sin!
    I however am a sinner. ALL Christans are SINNERS!

  14. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Atman

    Are you sure that biblical prophesies with regards to Israel naturally unfolded, YES

    or are certain events being engineered by man to give the appearance that prophesies are being fulfilled NO

    Why should they? How could they? Do they have the power?

    Can you give us the history of the Palestinians?
    Can you tell me of their occupation ofthe land since AD 70?

    Frankly I really have no intention in getting any debate on this matter. So I will end here by saying that I will watch and see.

    I hold the Biblical view. You dont. and you have that right.

    For what ever reason, the Word teaches that what is happening now would happen. That is my understanding. Whether the Jews are good bad right wrong up or down the predictions seem to be under fulfillment.

    The players predicted to be in charge at the end appear to be taking thier places. You believe what you think. And I have explained where I stand.. Be good

  15. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Georgie,

    “What is clear is that the whole world is against Israel- just as precicted in the Psalms.”

    +++

    Since 1949 aid by the US to Israel has reached over $100 billion

    Since 2007 it runs at about $3 billion per year.

    Its about $2.8 billion in Obama’s 2010 budget

    With “hate” like that who needs love?

  16. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Not Saved
    I do not have answers to your question or to many other questions. I am in my little corner looking foward to see what will happen. Thats all.

    The most I am willing to say is that according to my understanding of the Word, that we seem to be approaching the eschaton. At that prospect I rejoice greatly.

  17. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Good thing the whole world is against them, I shudder at what it would be like if the US were for them.

  18. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    @ BU FAMILY

    Galatians 3:29 poignantly remind us that if we TRULY* believe in CHRIST – then we are ALL* ABRAHAM’s SEED* (i.e. JEWS – spiritually and in every other Biblical sense)…

    The real question (and not the DECEPTION*) I am reading on here about a nation of people called Israelite [JEWS] (dimensions of which far exceed even our own understanding of social anthropology, forensic paleontology or the modern science of gene pools)…

    (IF*) this issue is BIBLICAL* (which I would like to believe it is – and not some sociological agenda inflicted on since the late 1940’s [a topic for another day] ), then there is a lot of mis-contextualization, mis-ontological as well as mis-epistemological info squirting all about the place…

    I was recently looking at the discourse on whether the “JEWS ARE GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE” – and it is shocking the amount of hyperbole that’s written, flaunted and flashed about on this issue especially within so-called religious circles (forget the academic maelstrom)…

    BUSH TEA* (the infamous Bushman LOL) hit the nail correctly in his post earlier… His eloquent “rant” was beautiful (if I may so myself), elucidating the real issues which we must face in regards to this AGE-OLD*(LOL) volatile subject… Something for which they will be no consensus regardless of who says what…

    GOD HAS NO MOST FAVORED NATION STATUS FOR ANY OF US – (let me qualify myself here) UNLESS WE CAN TRULY* ACCEPT THE MAN* CALLED CHRIST JESUS (that applies to so-called Jew & Gentile alike – sinner or so-called saint)…

    BIBLEINFO* has a wonderful piece on this question – maybe this is the common ground we need???

    http://www.bibleinfo.com/en/content/are-jews-gods-chosen-people

  19. Dictionary Avatar
    Dictionary

    Adrian (and others):

    I passed back briefly to see how things had got on, and saw your plea.

    I respect what you have tried to do to put a bit of balance into the thread, and will respond to you, reluctant though I am. (And I intend that this will be final, finis. End.)

    I appreciate your concern and spirit.

    However, if you go back to last November on, you will see how, on invitation, I took time to exchange with many of the hot commenters in this thread, and the balance of the resulting involved exchanges is plain: they did not and do not have the substance on the balance of the merits — on topic after topic, consistently — to back up their claims.

    But, sadly and revealingly, they were too often only too willing to embroil others in a pattern of distractors led out to strawman distortions laced with poisonous ad hominem denigrations and outright demonisation [e.g. think of how a legitimate state enforcing a blockade in a condition of war by asking that claimed humanitarian supplies be trans- shipped though a port where they can be inspected for contraband, is being labelled as pirates above . . . ]; which they then lit up, triggering a polarising, confusing, atmosphere poisoning and clouding rhetorical conflagration.

    Which, in a more or less unmoderated blog, soon leads to utter breakdown of civility. (And that is why I have pointed out that the right to self-expression is balanced by our duty to accuracy and to fairness. Even — especially — when we are vexed by evident outrage on what seems to be blatant atrocity; for we live in a world where artful propaganda exists. [Recall: “never lash or slap a child in a fit of temper . . . “])

    Having shown the balance on the merits on the underlying, root issue: addressing the agenda of attempted de-Christianisation — look here please, esp sections A, B, F (very relevant to what is going on in this case) and G — I concluded enough had been done and the point of diminishing net returns had been reached.

    I came back to this thread, after first communicating and pleading with the blog owner, simply to put something balancing on the record for those who really don’t know where to turn to find out the rest of the story.

    (BTW, the post I linked above is now updated to include 7 videos, and has also been updated with a response to a key analysis by a retired British Marine experienced with piracy and terrorism, that shows that the jihadis expected that the Israelis would be primarily armed with paintball guns and used those out-of- place life jackets and face masks we see to fend off the paint balls. (I now suspect they intended not only mayhem with blunt instruments and knives, but hostage taking to trigger a crisis, with “friendly” cameras by the dozen already on board. [Onlookers, research on the jihad of the tongue and pen, after reflecting on this current blog review of a key book.)

    So, Adrian, please consider the present matter, the post above, and the plain evasions of its import as the proverbially famous slice of the cake that has all the ingredients in it.

    For, if those who are ever so plainly so hot to accuse and de-legitimise Israel cannot fairly and squarely face the basic and videotaped facts on a current case as listed above, but insist on ranting and raging, distorting and distracting, that tells us — sadly — that they have been manipulated into a well-known state of mind where rage displaces concern for truth or fairness and distorts judgement. (Pardon a 101 aside: As the ghost of Socrates warns us, this state of induced, enraged blindness has been aimed at by cynical rhetoricians ever since Aristotle warned in The Rhetoric that our judgments when we are pained and hostile are not as those made when we are pleaded and friendly.)

    Therefore — and, onlookers and participants, pardon if this is painful — until there is a fair-minded willingness to face and appropriately respond to the evident facts in this case and change minds in light of what those facts reveal, there is little hope that the rage-blinded will address the wider Arab-Israeli dispute objectively, in light of the relevant history.

    [And, kindly note on a strawman alert: I am not at all suggesting that the Israelis are paragons of sinless perfection. A read of Ezekiel 35 – 39, the prophetic backdrop for all this that is going on, will tell us better! Follow up my discussion in the main paper that appends a counter-balancing summary of the history of modern Israel to see more details, starting from the sins of Abraham, and BTW including a discussion on Galatians 3 on how the blessings of Abraham, through the Seed of Abraham, are now accessible to ALL nations through the gospel — without need to resort to so-called replacement theology..]

    No wonder, when Jesus responded to the Disciples’ question on the signs of the end times, he began: “Watch out that no one deceives you . . . “

    A word to the wise is sufficient, as my mom used to ever so often quote the Greeks.

    Ah gawn . . .

    Dictionary

    PS: IYI, onlookers, here is my summary on handling media spin tactics. (Adrian, please use this link to follow up the contact on the home page, to email me.)

  20. Inkwell Avatar
    Inkwell

    Well said, Bushman, but I fear you are bashing your head against a (separation) wall.

    The following article is taken from TPM and again I say “well said”. Pardon the insertion in the penultimate paragraph…couldn’t help it.

    Lying About The Gaza Flotilla Attack
    by M.J. Rosenberg – June 2, 2010, 10:08PM

    It’s been one lie after another in the US media about the Israeli attack on the Gaza-bound relief flotilla. No matter that the Israeli media views the whole incident as a debacle for Israel, in this country the Israel-can-do-no-wrong crowd is on overdrive defending the operation. As usual, facts don’t matter to them.

    Except they do.

    The first thing you need to know about the Gaza flotilla disaster is that the intention of the activists on board the ships was to break the Israeli blockade. Delivering the embargoed goods was incidental.

    In other words, the activists were like the civil rights demonstrators who sat down at segregated lunch counters throughout the South and refused to leave until they were served. Their goal was not really to get breakfast. It was to end segregation.

    That fact is so obvious that it is hard to believe that the “pro-Israel” lobby is using it as an indictment.

    Of course the goal of the flotilla was to break the blockade. Of course Martin Luther King provoked the civil authorities of the South to break segregation. Of course the Solidarity movement used workers’ rights as a pretext to break Soviet-imposed Communism.

    The bottom line is that the men and women of the flotilla had every right to attempt to destroy an illegal blockade that Israel had no legal standing to impose and which was designed to inflict collective punishment on the people of Gaza. (There is no truth to the story that Israel would have delivered the goods on the ships to Gaza if asked; the Israelis never made that offer and, judging by years of precedent, would have blocked any delivery).

    As for the Israeli argument that its soldiers were attacked, that is ridiculous. Israeli commandos were ordered to board a civilian ship in international waters and the government that sent them claims that the resisting passengers attacked them without provocation. This is like a carjacker complaining to the police that the driver bashed him with a crowbar that was under the seat. Neither carjackers nor hijackers should expect their victims to acquiesce peacefully.

    Here are the facts about life in Gaza today — facts that only can be changed by breaking the blockade. These data come from the American Near East Relief Association (ANERA), which provides relief to Gazans to the extent permitted by the Israeli (and American) authorities. ANERA is neither “pro-Israel” nor “pro-Palestinian.” It has no political agenda at all. It merely determines what human needs are and tries to respond to them.

    8 out of 10 Gazans depend on foreign aid to survive.

    The World Food Program says Gaza requires a minimum of 400 trucks a day to meet basic nutritional needs – yet an average of just 171 trucks worth of supplies enters Gaza every week,

    Clothes that were held in the port of Ashdod for over a year were released into Gaza but arrived covered with mold and mildew, unusable.

    95% of Gaza’s water fails World Health Organization standards leaving thousands of newborns at risk of poisoning.

    Anemia for children under the age of 5 is estimated at 48%.

    75 million liters of untreated sewage are pumped into the Mediterranean Sea every day – because piping and spare parts are not permitted.

    During the 2009 bombing:

    More than 120,000 jobs were lost as Gaza’s industrial zone was destroyed… 15,000 homes and apartments were damaged or destroyed… 1/3 of all schools were destroyed.

    None of these can be rebuilt, because construction supplies are kept out by the Israeli authorities.

    Also, check this out from The Economist. It is a partial list of commodities allowed into Gaza and commodities banned.

    So what is the blockade about?

    It is not about stopping terrorism. Hamas has repeatedly offered Israel an indefinite cease-fire in exchange for lifting the blockade. And, on a half dozen occasions, Israel accepted the deal but did not live up to its side of it. In fact, the 2009 war began after Israel ignored its commitments under the Gaza cease-fire agreement, continued the blockade, and then provoked the resumption of attacks on Sderot through a series of targeted assassinations of Palestinians (Israel claims that no cease-fire agreement curtails its right to kill any Palestinian it deems to be a terrorist).

    Israel asserts that it will not accept any long-term cease-fire agreement with Hamas because Hamas does not recognize its right to exist.

    But Israel does not need the permission of anyone — let alone Hamas — to exist. All it needs from Hamas is an end to violence and that is precisely what Hamas is offering, in exchange for lifting the blockade.

    This is not to say that Hamas need never recognize Israel. It should. But it is ridiculous to insist on recognition as a precondition for anything. Recognition would be the end result of negotiations, not a precondition for it.

    But that is not what Israel wants. It wants to destroy Hamas because it is a terrorist organization. And that makes sense until one realizes that the African National Congress, Sinn Fein, the Israeli Irgun, the Algerian FLN and a host of other resistance movements were called terrorist organizations before negotiations brought them to power. Former Israeli Prime Ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were both unabashed terrorists prior to their entrance into respectable politics. And so what? If dealing with terrorists — as Israel has repeatedly done with Hezbollah — will help achieve a worthy goal, why not do it? After all, if negotiations fail, one can always walk away.

    But Israel will not change its self-defeating policies until we change ours. And there is no evidence that is happening (at least, not until after the November elections, for obvious reasons).

    For now, our policies are joined at the hip with Israel’s. We support the blockade of Gaza. We oppose any efforts at reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas. We even back Israel’s opposition to the Arab Peace Initiative, which offers Israel full peace and normalization of relations with every Arab country in exchange for the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

    Enough is enough. The Obama administration needs to join the rest of the world in demanding an end to the Gaza blockade as a first big step toward the resumption of negotiations.

    The attack on the flotilla was one of the most disastrous blunders in Israel’s history. At last, the whole world sees Israel’s policy of collective punishment for what it is — a means to perpetuate the occupation forever. Only the United States government (along with Dictionary, Zoe and Georgi Porgie) has chosen to close its eyes.

    The occupation is killing Israel. Between AIPAC and an American government whose Middle East policies are determined by campaign donors, Israel is in its worst fix ever. On the other hand, Hamas has every reason to celebrate. The only way it can blow this moment would be to resort to terrorism again. But It is beginning to seem that Hamas is smarter than that. And that means trouble for an Israeli government that is stumbling around like a blind drunk. And for its American ally too.

  21. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ AH…

    The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.

    Let’s start at the beginning, do you or can you refute the claims posted by Atman about the deception and subsequent betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain?

    There is an old adage…if ya start wrong ya gine end wrong.

  22. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

  23. Checkit-Out Avatar
    Checkit-Out

    Another article to be ignored by GP, Zoe, et al

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

  24. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    @ BU Family

    WHILE ISRAELIS KILLS HIS ARAB BROTHER/COUSIN (all Abraham’s seed) and in most cases, the science is astonishing given the DNA genepools where ARAB & JEW are so similar, only one conclusion can be rendered…

    HOWEVER – THOSE WITH SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE CAN PROBABLY EXPLAIN ALL THE GENETIC & ANTHROPOLOGICAL FINDINGS FOR US….

    Wikipedia finds that in “a study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al.[39] found that the Y chromosome of some Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with “relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim,” and a total admixture estimate “very similar to Motulsky’s average estimate of 12.5%.” This supported the finding that “Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.” However, when all haplotypes were included in the analysis, m (the admixture percentage) increased to 23% ± 7%. In addition, of the Jewish populations in this cluster, the Ashkenazim were closest to South European populations, specifically the Greeks…”

    PLEASE SEE:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#DNA_and_Jewish_interrelationship

  25. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Thanks for that posting Inkwell.
    It amazes me to read the shite posted as gospel by Zoe sometimes. I bet he will come and say that the report is Arab propaganda. There are so many sites that are neutral, who try to show the world the injustices Israel unleashes everyday on the Palestinian people. No one is praising Hamas, knowing their history BUT the US called for democratic elections and Hamas won. Israel and the USA were not prepared for this even though they were warned that Hamas could win.
    What I find disappointing about so called Christians is that they knowingly turn a blind eye to human suffering to justify prophecy, Haiti and New Orleans come to mind. People like Zoe and Dictionary
    (GP has ‘abstained’ lol) betrays their Christian values by focusing on prophecy and ignoring human suffering. By their logic, prophecy cannot be changed, I agree BUT human suffering and injustices can by standing up and holding each other accountable for their actions.

  26. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    ASHKENAZI JEWISH GENETIC DISEASES:

    NEW YORK METHODIST HOSPITAL* offers carrier screening for the seven inherited diseases that are most prevalent among Ashkenazi Jews….

    See –

    http://www.nym.org/For%20Patients%20&%20Families/The%20Institute%20for%20Family%20Care/Ashkenazy%20Jewish%20Genetic%20Disease.asp

  27. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    A WHITE OWN & CONTROLLED WORLD IS STILL TRYING TO MAKE US BELIEVE (brainwashing) THAT A SEMITIC GENTLEMAN CALLED “abram” FROM THE MESOPOTAMIAN VALLEY OF IRAQ (A BLACK MAN) TRANS-MORPHED 4000 YEARS LATER INTO MICHAEL JACKSON WITH NO HELP FROM HIS GP…

    Come on folks!!!

    No wonder the human race is BLIND*, POLARIZED & IGNORANT – ever learning CRAP* but never coming to knowledge of what TRUTH* is….

    C’mon guys!!!!

  28. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Technician // June 4, 2010 at 7:53 AM

    @ AH…

    The facts of this incident is all that is needed to defend Israel. Point by Point as previously presented by Dictionary, and again outlined by Zoe, it is a case that cannot be refuted objectively.

    Let’s start at the beginning, do you or can you refute the claims posted by Atman about the deception and subsequent betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain?

    There is an old adage…if ya start wrong ya gine end wrong.
    =========================================

    Why pick a time that is convenient to your argument? Can’t we discuss the incident that recently occurred?

    Ok I will discuss your timeline if you first discuss this incident.

    BTW, in the beginning there was no British involvement. In the beginning there was no light, and it is said that the sun never set on the British empire. lol!

  29. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    Manipulation and deception is everywhere…

    Homogeneity (genetically, anthropologically or sociologically) is still hard cheese!!!

    If we factor in NOAH* the first human after ADAM* (maybe ya’ll will get that)…

    Then where is the EVIDENCE* (empirically & OTHERWISE*) for the claims that my so-called JEWISH* brothers are making???

    IT IS ALL A SOCIO-POLITICAL & SOCIO-ECONOMIC CONSTRUCT WITH NO LOGICALLY-LASTING BASIS IN SCIENCE (where the pendulum can swing both ways) OR IN BIBLICAL HISTORICAL EXEGESIS…

    But some knuckle-heads would have you believe to the contrary and even argue with their own mothers!!!

    SAD!!!

    LOL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  30. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ AH…

    I really don’t see the joke in such an important issue. I also did not seek a time line which favours my views. You can not solve a problem without knowing the cause, even you should know this. Discussing the issue at hand will only lead to more of what is above. I doubt anyway, given you response that you are even serious so forgive me and let’s move on ok.

  31. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    In March 2003, the Bush administration presented Israel and the Palestinian Authority with a “road map to peace”The very first item called for the ‘Palestinian’ leadership to state that Israel has a right to exist and that the Palestinian Authority will STOP MURDERING Jews. Well, as everyone knows (or should know) – neither will the Arab leadership forswear the mudering of Jews nor do they want Israel to exist.. so neither of these two prerequisites has been fulfilled. Nor have Arab countries stopped their funding of anti-Israel terrorist groups. Nor have the PA leadership with their loyal soldiers done anything to convince people to believe that the PA/PLO was interested in peace. They have said much; they have done HORRORS. Terroism was INVENTED by Arafat and has, since, been exported worldwide.

    In addition, what the PLO could not achieve militarily, America is helping them attain through a ‘peace treaty’. In fact, the Oslo accords enabled the PLO to achieve, in one fell swoop, what the entire Arab/Muslim world had failed to attain through many years of terroism and conventional war, namely: the diminution of the State of Israel, and, what appears to be, the creation of a hostile Arab/Muslim state in Israel’s backyard. And here we also had and have, great Israeli leaders helping the PLO establish a military presence right in the heart of the Holy Land – and, mind you, arming them also. Arabs have been following the script; they plan to persevere until Israel is DESTROYED – again, in accordance with the much publicized plans which spelled out clearly in the PLO Phased Plan. The Phased Plan, as the PLO Covenant, has NEVER been repealed and both documents calll for the total DESTRUCTION of the Jewish State. Strategies are revealed in these official documents – and they are being strictly followed by the PA and their cronies. Take a look at a few excerpts from the documents and you will note that the *battle* plans are spelled out very clearly. The Phased Plan Resolution states quite clearly:

    “It is impossible for a permanent and just peace to be established…unless our Palestinian people recover ALL their national rights and, first and foremost, their rights to return… on the whole of the soil of their homeland…The (Palestine) Liberation Organization will employ ALL means, and first and formost, armed struggle to liberare…EVERY part of Palestinian territory…(land) will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition [of Israel], peace, secure borders…” emphasis added.

    Let us recall Churchill reacting to Chamberlain’s Munich Pact with Hilter, as Churchill addressed Parliment.

    “You have to consider the character of the Nazi movement and the rule which it implies…There can NEVER be friendship between the British democracy and the Nazi power…which vaunts the spirit of aggression and conquest, which derives strength and perverted pleasure from persecution, and uses, with pitiless brutality, the threat of murderous force. That power can NEVER be a trusted friend of British democracy.” emphasis added.

    These same characteristics described by Churchill of the Nazi movement, are shared by the PLO/PA and their terrorist Jihadists. One can NOT negotiate with a power that it pitiless, brutal, and sadistic. World War 11 proved Churchill correct.

    The OLO/PA dispatched more than 18,000 of its terrorist-soldiers on a mission to murder Jews, and, as a result, Israel has suffered 25, 375 attacks and nearly 14,000 casualties, just during the 45 months since October 2000. (Report from Shin Bet’s Director to Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committe, ‘Shin Bet Chief Reveals Some Painful Facts of the Oslo War”, http://www.israelnn.com (July 20, 2005). See also http://www.israelnn.com (August 8, 2004). On Augiust 1, 2005, the same source reported the same alarming frequency for the month of July 2005 with nearly 500 terrorist attacks.)

    This translates to 20 attacks and 10 casualties daily. The PLO/PA is at WAR with Israel and Israel’s response is to negotiate? The PLO/PA wants every Jew DEAD and Israel’s response is “Please add a little more territory to what we’ve already given you. Will you be our friends now? It’s like trying to placate Bin Laden by offering him some American real estate if he would abandon his life’s goal of destroying America, if he would substitute friendship for hate.

    Israel does recognize that the PA has declared WAR on the Jewish State. Israel even refers to this domestic situation as the Oslo War, but, the war is one-sided and the same scene played-out daily. The PLO/PA soldiers attack and Israel threatens reprisals. For nearly 20 years, the same scenario has unfolded amlost daily. Arabs attack again and again, and Israel issues hollow threats again and again.

    It is beyong reason that

    *A sovereign nation can allow military attacks to go unchecked for so long.

    *A sovereign nation can allow casualty figures to increase daily.

    *A sovereign does nothing substantial to protect its innocent citizens from harm.

    *A sovereign nation can allow itself to be controlled by foreign powers who, in a perverted way of thinking, demand Israei restraint in the face of attacks.

    The Israeli government’s behavior is preposterous; it defies all logic. Would America, or for that matter, would any sovereign country have sat there and done nothing while it suffered military incursions on a DAILY basis?

    And, yet, the constant, vicious, Arabic, ‘Turnspeak’ inverting the FACTS, blatant LIES, to make Israel look like the oppressor, has worked.

    It was the then prominent Arab Palestinian activist, writer, and innovator, Musa Alami, who first said in 1948, “The people (Palestinians) are in great need of a “myth” to fill their consciousness and imagination”

    And what was this *MYTH* Alami was talking about creating for the Palestinians? It was the MYTH that they were a ‘people’ who had a national identity in a *State* Palestine…LIE, LIE, and more LIES…!!! I

    It is only when one truly understand this *MYTH* that was created by Alami, and then propagated for the next 60 odd years, repeatedly, that the UTTER LIE, ‘end occupation’ ‘settlements’ end ‘Israeli aggression’ masterfully repeated, over and over again, that the majority of the world, DON’T know the facts, end up hating Israel, when the very Arab nations, are the very ones who have disguistingly KEPT their brother Arabs, called ‘Palestinians’ in this mess, by in the first place, (1948) telling them to LEAVE Israel, so she could be DESTROYED, which they could NEVER DO, so keep these Arab brothers in utter subjection, while we continue trying to one DAY, destroy, ANNIHILATE Israel and ALL Jews from the face of the earth.

  32. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @All…

    Anyone who doesn’t remember the history of this conflict might want to read this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

    Personally, I consider it very sad how much injustice, horror and killing happens with the supposed approval (and in the name) of the various God(s).

  33. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    @Technician
    I could not be any more serious. If you do not want to discuss the current situation, then I want to go back even furhter than British involvement. That land has a history way before then.

    Maybe the Meso-Americans should rise up against all occupiers throughout the Americas. The caribs and Amerindians against all in the caribbean islands.

  34. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ Zoe…

    You really are a true champion of free speech. Praise the Father you don’t live anywhere else…lol.
    How could you be so reckless to say one man ‘invented’ terrorism, then exported it?
    Let’s see, did Nelson Mandela learn his trade from Arafat (he was branded a terrorist too)?
    Did Arafat train the Mossad?
    Man you are just frothing at the mouth and chomping at the bit to anything anti Israel…ROFLMAO!!

  35. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Zoe: “Terroism [sic] was INVENTED by Arafat and has, since, been exported worldwide.

    I would argue you are wrong here, beyond the misspelling.

    There is no internationally agreed upon definition for the word “Terrorism”. From a legal perspective.

    A familiar definition is “the threat or use of violence, often against the civilian population, to achieve political or social ends, to intimidate opponents, or to publicize grievances.

    I would, however, argue that Terrorism (however it turns out to be defined) has been practised for thousands of years.

    While I’m writing, I’m wondering if perhaps a new word I’ve been thinking about might be worth putting forward:

    “Fearorism” – A proposed definition: “The use of scare tactics not directly involving violence, often against consumers, to encourage a particular decision to be made or for a product to be purchased. Often used by some to gain political power, and others to enhance profit.

    Just putting that out there….

  36. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    Or perhaps that could should reduced down to be…

    Word: “Fearism”

    Proposed definition: “The use of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (AKA FUD) to influence others.

  37. Yardbroom Avatar
    Yardbroom

    In the present world order, peace between Israel and Palestine will only occur under one or other of the following conditions. (a) The United States Government sees Israel as more of a liability than an asset in the Middle East or. (b) Iran acquires nuclear weapons.

    That is the position as I see it. Nothing that I have read or heard from a variety of sources seem able to change my evaluation.

  38. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Yardbroom: “Nothing that I have read or heard from a variety of sources seem able to change my evaluation.

    From what I have been hearing, we should all be prepared for a really big boom.

    Not biblical, but nuclear.

    Thank the Gods (and think of England)….

  39. Yardbroom Avatar
    Yardbroom

    @ Christopher Halsall

    Perhaps mankind!

  40. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ AH…..

    You can’t be serious!!!
    I refuse to even debate this with you even further…..what a disappointment you turned out to be*sigh*.
    Here I was thinking you were worthy of debate. Have a good weekend sir.
    I must say though, I am glad you realise the term ‘occupiers’ in this regard. Since you would have everyone rise up against their ‘occupiers’, what then do you expect the Palestinians to do?
    Don’t hurt your head with an answer, I see where you are coming from…..a confused and misguided state of mind….or as Pink Floyd would say…..a momentary lapse of reason…..ROFLMFAO!!!

  41. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Techie

    I focus on prophesy because there is very little I (OR YOU) can do about the human suffering.

    Just as prophecy cannot be changed, it seems that there will always be human suffering and injustices because it is indeed true that the heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked!

    It has always been so, and it will always be so. What are you doing to help the Palestinians man, besides keeping noise on BU?

    I am sorry , but I cant do anything either, so I might as well abstain..

  42. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Georgie Porgie

    It’s one thing to believe in biblical predictions, it’s another thing to believe that whatever Israel does in these days is right and justified. From all your past comments you have shown that you are fully in support of whatever Israel does. Does the bible say that whatever Israel does in these days is right and justified? The bible may have predicted a series of events over time, but tell me if anywhere it says that God approves the actions of Israel today.

  43. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @TMB

    Thanks for sharing the clip on 911 – building 7. It contains some of the same info included in another documentary more lenghty and comprehensive documentary entitle “911 – From The Ashes”. ..don’t know if you’ve seen that one but I have it on CD.

  44. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Here is a bit more of the historic facts concerning ‘Israel’ vis-a-vis the claim of the Palestinian rights to the Jewish homeland, as taken from “Prophecies For The Eara of Muslim Terror”

    INTRODUCING THE PROPHECY OF “THE ONE REAL CLAIM”

    A. TWO MUSLIM POSITIONS – The Traditional/Historical & The Current/Revisionist

    B. THE ‘PALESTINIAN REFUGEES – A Recent Creation
    * * *

    A. TWO MUSLIM POSITIONS – The Traditional/Historical & The Current/Revisionist

    Arafat so often described Israel as the homeland of the “Palestinian Arabs” that the world has accepted his statements at face value, with out checking for validity. As a matter of UNTIL THE 1960s, the entire world referred to the Jews as the Palestinians. No longer is this the case- highlighting the effectiveness of Arafat and his program of MISINFORMATION. On many occasions Arafat had stated that:

    * Arabs had always enjoyed a verdant life in ‘Palestine”, from time immemorial.

    *Arabs were the overwhelming majority in the land, from time immemorial.

    * “Palestine” has been the Arab homeland, from time immemorial.

    *Jerusalem is the third holiest Muslim city.

    *Jerusalem was never a holy city for Jews – let alone, a Jewish city. Jews never had a temple there.

    *Jews are newcomers to the area.

    *In 1948, Jews usurped the rights of millions of Arabs who had been living there, from time immemorial.

    *Jews expelled millions of Arabs from the land in 1948 and transformed them into poor, homeless refugees.

    *There are nearly 6 million “Palestinian refugees” waiting to return to their homeland in ‘Palestine’, what is now mistakenly called the State of Israel.

    These outrageous claims of Arafat have been routinely endorsed by many people. Parroting Arafat, the world pressures the Jewish State to “return” to the Arabs that which is “rightfully” theirs. An entire book is required in order to deal properly with the topics. A book on Biblical prophecies and their application is not designed to deal with these issues in a comprehensive fashion. But since these issues do impact on our subject, we will present a limited discussion, which is certainly in order- a few quotes and comments will hopefully suffice.

    At the outset, it should be stated clearly that, prior to the 20th Century, NO visitor to the Holy Land had EVER reported seeing a significant and indigenous Arab population living in Israel. As mentioned, the presence of NOMADS was noted. The presence of thousands of Jews were noted. But no observer ever noted the presence of a large indigenous Arab population there. Simply stated, dear readers, not many Arabs ever resided there on a permanent basis. Certainly, under these ciecumstances, Arabs could never have been historically connected to the Holy Land. Some Arabs did temporarily pass through, some remained for a short period of time as nomads, but the area NEVER sported any Arab or Muslim entity that was connected to the Land. We saw reports from witnesses in different time periods. The Holy Land WAS totally DESOLATE; some nomads and Bedouins lived there and tens of thousands of Jews. Listen to the people who knew best, the people who lived 100-150 years ago, the people who were the witnesses – the presence of an indigenous Arab population was NEVER noted.

    Listen to the words of Sir George Adam Smith, author of the 1891 classic, ‘Historical Geography of the Holy Land.”

    ‘Nor is there any indigenous civilization in Palestine…except that of the Jews who have given to Palestine everything it has ever had of value to the world.”

    The chief religious notable in the Muslim holy city of Mecca and the ruler of the Hejaz Kingdom (forerunner of Saudi Arabia), wrote an article describing the nomadic existence of the Arabs and that even the Arab of Palestine;

    “…used to leave his country wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him…At the same time we have seen, the JEWS from foriegn countries streaming to Palestine…The cause of causes could not escape those who had the gift of a deeper insight. They (Jews) knew that THE COUNTRY WAS FOR ITS ORIGINAL SONS…A SACRED AND BELOVED HOMELAND. The return of these exiles to their HOMELAND will PROVE materially and spiritually an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades, and in all things connected with toil and labour.”

    There were NO indigent Arabs in Palestine. The land belongs to the Jews. In those days it was so simple and clear. In point of fact, before the present Arab attempts to INVERT the facts of history, the Muslims leadership who lived in Palestine submitted an official statement to the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, the conference to carve up the Ottomam Empire in the aftermath of World War 1. This was the time to put forth all rightful claims. There would not be a second time. In fact, this was the conference that created the facts for the ultimate creation of 22 Arab countries. This was the conference where Arab leaders declared that they have NO BONDS whatsoever to the Holy Land. Pay careful attention to their words:

    “The Arabs who are living in Palestine consider themselves as *Syrians* [and not Palestinians] by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds.” (Statement of the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, February 1919)

    These are the words of Muslim leaders in 1919 and these words were presented in a calculated and deliberate manner. The words were prepared carefully in order to introduce the world to official Arab/Muslim doctrine. The statement contains many adjectives and, taken together, they are EMPHATIC: there is NO SUCH thing as a “Palestinian Arab” entity and there is NO Arab or Muslim entity with ties to the Holy Land. True, there were some Arabs who lived inPalestine, BUT, they never considered themselves as Palestinians. They were members of a pan-Arab group and Syria was their homeland. Arabs do voluntarily and consistently asserted connections to Arab lands, but NEVER did they assert ties to the Holy Land. Arabs had always expressed a connection to a truly Arab land – such as Syria. No Arab or Muslim ever felt a connection to the Holy Land; everyone always knew that this region was designated for the Jews – ALWAYS.

    As a matter of fact, the 1931 census reveals that the “Palestinian Arabs” reported 23 different native languages and 20 different countries of birth. There is NO Palestinian language, because there is NO Palestinian nation – and there NEVER was. Jews are bonded to Palestine, from TIME IMMEMORIAL, and Arabs and Muslims to Syria, Saudi Arabia or some other Arab or Muslim country. Consequently, the British did not include Jerusalem and the Holy Land in the territories to be assigned to the Arabs. Their chief negotiator, Henry McMahon stated:

    “There was no place…of sufficient importance…further south [of Damascus]to which the Arabs attached vital importance.”

    In 1937, the British Palestine Royal Commission, far from being a pro-Jewish entity, reported that,

    “It is time, surely, that Palestinian ‘citizenship’…should be recognized as what it is, as nothing but a legal formula devoid of moral meaning.”

    As late as May 1947 (and long before Arafat’s arrival on the world scene) the repsentative of the Arab High Committee to the United Nations echoed the same traditional Arab position when he officially and formally declared at the General Assembly:

    “It is common knowledge that, politically, Palestine IS NOTHING.”

    Listen to his words: “Palestine is nothing.” Palestine has absolutely no value or meaning to Arabs. As a matter of fact, historically, Palestine NEVER had its own language or culture. Palestine was NEVER a recognized country and it NEVER had borders and it NEVER was an independent entity- and the Romans named it Palestine, NOT the Arabs. Since the birth of Islam, there was NEVER independent Arab sovereignty in the Holy Land, except for military rule during the Crusades and the nineteen years in recent history under Jordan. As a matter of fact, until the mid-1950s, Israeli Jews were the ones who were referred to as Palestinians.

    By the way, did you know that Jerusalem is mentioned as many times in the Buddhist Dhomapada as in the Muslim Koran and Aztec documents? Well, this is only natural since nothing of Islamic, Aztec, or Buddhist significance ever occurred in Jerusalem. Truly, Jerusalem is not an important entity – not to the Buddhist, not to the Aztec people, and not to the Muslims. Understandby, Jerusalem is NOT mentioned in the Koran. Mohammed states that only Mecca and Medina are holy cities for Muslims and that is why Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the Koran. On the contrary, the Koran does declare that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews.

    “And therefore, we said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land…and we (i.e., Allah] will gather you altogether..”

    “Bear in mind the words of Moses to his people…”Enter, my people, the Holy Land which Allah has assigned for you.”: (Surah 17:104 and 5: 20-21).

    Jerusalen is so important to them, Arabs maintain, yet during the limited time of Muslim control, under the Umayyads or, in our generation, under the Jordanians, NO Arab conqueror ever made Jerusalem his capital, NOR did any Arab or Muslim ever display even the slightest degree of reverence for the City.

  45. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    There’s plenty of condemnation for Israel’s recent actions pertaining to the flotilla, even from as high as the UN Secretary General who has been asking Israel to discontinue the blockade for a long time now. Since back in August of last year United Nations human rights chief Navi Pillay accused Israel of violating the rules of warfare with its blockade stopping people and goods from moving in or out of the Gaza Strip.

    The plain and simple fact is that the blockade is illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention – Collective Punishment. The problem is that the UN appears to be a toothless organization which is only able to condemn illegal actions, but not able to punish violators…especially when the violators are “big dogs”, or close friends of “big dogs”. It would take God to replace the UN for justice to prevail.

    Quite frankly I’m of the opinion that it is the intention of Israel to wipe out the Palestinian people by any means necessary…even if it means by starvation and diseases. Israel’s actions clearly indicate that she is completely against the establishment of a Palestinian state, and she wants to occupy all of the area where Palestinians now reside.

  46. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Yardbroom who wrote:

    In the present world order, peace between Israel and Palestine will only occur under one or other of the following conditions. (a) The United States Government sees Israel as more of a liability than an asset in the Middle East or. (b) Iran acquires nuclear weapons.
    ———————————————————————————————————-

    That is how I see it as well Yardy.

  47. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @GP….

    …..’What are you doing to help the Palestinians man, besides keeping noise on BU?’

    Making noise is a start GP, it shows awareness of the injustices being committed.
    Similarly, the defence of the Jews by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?
    The longest journey begins with a step.

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Atman

    I certainly believe in the predictions of the Bible.
    I have never expressed any opinion on whether Israel is right or justified
    I have said nothing in the past to lead you to the conclusion that I am in support or not in support of what Israel does or does not do. Check the record!
    The Bible has nothing to say about the actions of Israel today or whether or not God approves the actions of Israel today.

    You see unlike you, I am not particularly interested in Israel’s actions, or any other nation’s actions except to observe how they seem to be fitting into the predicted scenarios predicted for the eschaton.

    I am interested in identifying the ten toes of Neubuchadnezzers image. In identifying the kings of the south , and the kings of the east etc

    I leave you guys to rant and rave about contemporary events over which you have no control.

    Techie

    Re Similarly, the defence of the Jews by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?

    NOT AT ALL See the above.

    It should be interested to see what you guys will say to Zoe’s last post. It is sound historical fact that can not be refuted.

    The longest journey begins with a step is a true saying, so enjoy your journey in the coming years, because Israel will not be wiped out.

    My only interest now is will the rapture occur BEFORE or AFTER the predicted false peace treaty .

  49. art Avatar
    art

    @technician:”Similarly, the defence of the JEWS by you and others is seen as playing your part as well….ah lie?”

    F off

  50. Kiki ♈ Avatar
    Kiki ♈

    BMW (redemption song)

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