Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Banner promoting anonymous crime reporting with a phone and contact number 1 800 TIPS (8477), featuring the Crime Stoppers logo and a QR code for submitting tips.

Israel Versus Palestine, Seems Like Total Destruction No Solution

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

The six-ship convoy had set out to carry 10,000 tonnes of aid from Cyprus to Gaza, despite repeated Israeli warnings that it would not be allowed to reach the territory

The video shows the Israeli soldiers descending to the ship. The video also shows some passengers on the ship brandishing sword like weapons. The Israeli government claims the ships were warned not to approach its territory. The organizers of the flotilla left the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and is reported to have been boarded by the Israeli while in international waters.

We all know the answer how this conflict will end. The nuclear outfitted Israel with support from the globe’s only military superpower the United States will have its way. When will it end? Well it seems like total destruction no solution.

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

635 responses to “Israel Versus Palestine, Seems Like Total Destruction No Solution”

  1. ac Avatar
    ac

    @Technician.

    Don’t think too hard. Remember all work and no play make a dull day. I hope your efforts would be truly rewarded. I know you can do it as you have the discipline not to quit.. Continued success in your endeavours. Keep Bu posted.Best of luck

  2. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re A second question: what about the unFULFILLED
    prophesies?

    ALL OF THE UNFULFILLED PROMISES RELATES TO THE SECOND COMING

    All promises that are not related to the second coming have all been fulfilled in every minute detail. Only the seconf coming predictions remain to come to past. Even now we can see things coming into place for their fulfillment.

  3. Checkit-Out Avatar
    Checkit-Out

    @Georgie Porgie // June 2, 2010 at 2:49 PM;

    Grateful for a few examples of the fulfilled prophesies of the bible and if possible their similarities to and differences from the myriad, conflicting and often unfulfilled prophecies of the modern day prophets of various religions.

    Israel of the old testament was a terrorist state and God allowed its people to be humiliated and scattered since they had turned their faces against him. Is modern Israel any different? Are they following the tenets of a Christian, forgiving, all loving God? Israel of the modern days is an even more ravenous terrorist state, given the civilising norms of the times. It is still to be seen if God will allow Israel to prosper and rain down war on the World, despite the obscure prophecies in Revelations.

  4. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @GP: “All promises that are not related to the second coming have all been fulfilled in every minute detail.

    Care to present evidence supporting your claims?

  5. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Bad man

    So are you one is critical of so-called terrorists and extremists when they act in their own best interest? If one should not be critical of Israel’s behaviour and demand justice, then it would be unreasonable to be critical of those you may call terrorists. In my book the Israeli government and American government practice their own form of terrorism…even though they wouldn’t call it that.

  6. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ Atman

    Can you elaborate on the betrayal of Palestine.

  7. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Checkit-Out
    Re Grateful for a few examples of the fulfilled prophesies of the bible
    Examples are the prophecies of Daniel concerning Babylon. Medes and Persians, Grecce, Romans and we are now approaching the formation of the Revived Roman Empire or the feet of clay of Neubuchadnezer’s image about which he dreamt.

    The numerous fulfilled prophecies in minute detail concerning the first coming of Christ.
    Re “and if possible their similarities to and differences from the myriad, conflicting and often unfulfilled prophecies of the modern day prophets of various religions.”

    I tend not to enter these realms Sir.

    Re Israel of the old testament was a terrorist state. I don’t define them as such LOL

    Re and God allowed its people to be humiliated and scattered since they had turned their faces against him. This happened twice as was predicted in I think it is Deuteronomy.

    Re Is modern Israel any different? Are they following the tenets of a Christian, forgiving, all loving God? NO This is also predicted in the prophretic Scriptures Sir.

    RE Israel of the modern days is an even more ravenous terrorist state, given the civilising norms of the times. I don’t define them as such LOL

    Re It is still to be seen if God will allow Israel to prosper They have done very wll since their return to the promised land. Brought the land back from a dessert to great productivity.

    Re and rain down war on the World, WE SHALL SOON SEE SIR!

    RE despite the obscure prophecies in Revelations.
    The prophecies of Revelation are not obscure Sir.
    Revelation is the culmination of Bible prophesy.
    If you have not studied the prophesies in the brooks and streams rivulets and rivers of the rest of the Bible, you will be lost in the sea of Revelation where all these prophesies come to a grand finale.

    In many places Revelations assumes knowledge of material found elsewhere; e.g in Revelation 20 “a thousand years or the millennium” is glossed over as it is mentioned four times, but this topic is dealt with in detail in the Psalms and several other prophetic passages. YOu will not learn what the millennium is by reading Revelation

  8. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Dr. GP: “YOu will not learn what the millennium is by reading Revelation…

    Sad….

  9. Crusoe Avatar
    Crusoe

    Lets just admit it shall we?!!?!

    Mankind just cannot wait to burse one anudder head. Mankind just ig’runt.

    Yes, or No?

    Dun widdat!

    @TMB – Was that Beirut, Tivoli, Mexico, Islamabad? No…CUMBRIA!!!

    What the….

    Anudder nutter. Just tek he gun and loss way de ting…

    Truth be told, I am not technically ‘with’ those who believe in predicitons, etc etc…

    BUT, I cannot blame someone for believeing that the ‘end-times’ are upon us, all heck brek loose, from nature to mankind.

  10. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Technician

    The Arabs in Palestine were promised independence if fought with Britain to defeat the Turks, but at the same time Britain made a pact with the Jews to establish a home for them in Palestine. The Palestinian Arabs were betrayed…and to this day they have no state of their own.

    The Balfour Declaration
    ———————————–
    1915-1916
    Conflict brewed between the Arabs and Jews during World War I. At this time, England and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement to “divide the [Middle East] into British and French zones of influence.”
    Concurrently, in the Husayn-McMahon correspondences, Henry McMahon, British high commissioner of Egypt, and Sherif Husayn of the Hejaz agreed to Britain’s Arab alliance in defeating the Turks in exchange for Palestine independence. Avoiding further conflict, Britain manipulated the letters to make both the Arabs and Jews believe they were getting the territories.

    1917
    Arthur Balfour, British statesman, proclaimed the Balfour Declaration on November 2 nd . The Declaration stated the British government “views with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” A shocked Arab nation felt deceived by Britain.
    Following the war, Britain controlled Palestine under the permission of the League of Nations. The Arabs “demanded the immediate introduction of majority-rule government.” This was to the Arabs advantage as they were ninety-two percent of the population.
    Meanwhile, Jews “demanded the strict fulfillment of the promises implicit in the Balfour Declaration.” Britain, under commitment, had no choice but to abide.

  11. Straight talk Avatar
    Straight talk

    Georgie Boy:
    Do I detect a more moderate approach in today’s postings?
    If so it’s most admirable, and I for one judge it as a great asset to the blog.
    Your posting of the Jamaican conspiracy theory was a revelation 1:1… and power to your elbow for doing it.
    We are fed such pasteurised crap by our local media and desperately need outside opinions, however off message, to drive debate, and that’s what this blog is all about -debate, learning through sound logical posts, not belittleance, so we can all come to a reasonable judgment upon where we are at this moment in this complex and confusing time.
    I hope my wet finger is correct (CH notwithstanding) and we can all look forward to a more informed understanding of the world we live in.

  12. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    @TMB

    “A lone gunman (one Derek Bird) has wreaked havoc in the sleepy county of CUMBRIA by going on deadly rampage of mass killing shooting some 36 people – 12 are dead and the others are in hospital…….

    So yes CRUSOE* boy – we are truly in an age of serious SOCIAL UNREST*…”

    =====

    In 1987 a lone gunman killed 16 people and wounded 15 others with amongst other weapons an AK47, in the sleepy (very sleepy) town of Hungerford.

    That would be 23 years ago. Some age.

    Some logic.

  13. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ ac….

    Thanks, I will try…trust me, its not all work and no play…lol.

  14. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    All the best, Tech.

  15. ILLUMINATOR Avatar
    ILLUMINATOR

    I smell a rat too , CCTV cameras is miraculously stop wuk when they don’t want certain images to be recored yet these image make it to the main stream media……and are actually broadcasted. Uhn uhn……something real fishy round here. Either its supposed to be a distraction or an excuse for escalation of something…………time will tell i guess

  16. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Straight talk

    I am usually benign Sir and mild mannered. I like making sport, such that many dont take me seriously until I get serious LOL

    But nonsense is nonsense.
    People who come here should not be telling lies, or spewing false information, and should be willing to be corrected.

    The penchant to “challenge and put pressure” as one person calls it is nonsense. So is contradicting what others say just to be stupid. Such folk need to be stamped on. And I will do it every time. It takes the fun out of coming here.

    My philosophy is if you are not teaching me then I should be teaching you, but there shouldbe an interchange of facts coherently and logically presented. If we are cracking jokes then we are cracking jokes.

    The posting of the Jamaican conspiracy theory was something sent to me my an elder of my church back in Bim. It was sent out by an elderly Jamaican believer now living in South Florida whom I respect highly. So I thought there might be some merit in it . But I do not know much about these things.

    I figured you guys might find it interersting.

    We are fed such pasteurised crap by our local media and desperately need outside opinions, however off message, to drive debate, and that’s what this blog is all about -debate, learning through sound logical posts,

    I agree with that completely

    I have explained to you above why I have and will go after the morons. We must not post nonsense just to prove a point or win an arguement. I am not interested in debate. I stay out of stuff I kn ow nothing about and seek to share facts about what I know.

    Some have been too quick to judge me. I take this thing as serious as if it were my job.

  17. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ Not Saved…

    Thanks.

  18. ru4real Avatar
    ru4real

    Bad man saying nuttin // June 1, 2010 at 5:35 PM

    i think the Israeli raid was ill advised and heavy handed if not downright illegal but it is understandable and may even be justifiable to them. Some of the posters here need to do some reading and then some thinking.

    Israel is not the only country enforcing a blockade of the Gaza. Egypt is as well. Egypt – a Muslim Country- enforces a blockade of the Gaza.

    The ships were sailing to a Hamas controlled port which Israel would not allow under any circumstance since in the past aid going into the Gaza has been seized by Hamas for their own uses. What they can’t use is sold for funds to buy weapons.

    Hamas has robbed humanitarian agencies of aid before most notably the UNCR on 2 occasions.

    Israel offered to the aid ships the opportunity to offload at an Israeli port so that the Cargo could be checked and delivered over land to humanitarian agencies in the Gaza. This was a compromise of some sorts.

    The West Bank is not blockaded like the Gaza. Any ideas why?

    The statements about international waters are true but since Israel has imposed a blockade, for all intents and purposes they are at war. When sovereign nations are at war international waters mean nothing. The US blockaded Cuba in the Cold War. Remember the Monroe Doctrine. Even now North Korean ships are stopped and searched in international waters by US and NATO vessels.

    This was a publicity ploy by the aid ships. they were prepared to sacrifice lives for publicity. Israel’s response was foolhardy but typical . The Israelis already believe that the the world is against them, remember they have no allies only neutrals and enemies so they don’t care about world opinion or the UN.

    I will draw a scenario . If you were aboard a private vessel in South Korean waters or off Taiwan and a North Korean or Chinese warship ordered you to pull to and prepare to be boarded and searched would you fire at the boarders? You can be right and still foolhardy. Some of those people delivering aid were just that while others were provocateurs hoping to instigate an incident given Israeli bravado and gung-ho.

    This is not a stop and let a pedestrian cross the road issue. it is complex and has tremendous implications for Israel as a country. Israel has been guilty in the past of over reacting and acting illegally and brutality but they correctly believe that their existence is at stake.

    How could an Israeli Prime Minister or Security Minister allow those aid boats through to a Hamas controlled port without ascertaining what the cargo was? He would be derelict in his duty to his country especially if 2 days or a week after the shipment the shellings and bombings intensified.

    Israel offered a compromise. It was turned down. They then acted to secure the interests of their state.

    The stupid thing about this is that this incident changes nothing. The countries against Israel don’t have the military power to constrict Israel or force it to behave. those countries for Israel despite their open condemnations will never allow the UN to sanction Israel so we are back at square one.

    It is an unsolvable problem. The Arab extremists don’t believe Israel should exist. Most of Israel was Muslim ruled under Saladin. The Koran states that once land has been under Muslim rule it cannot be allowed to regress to infidels. The Arab fundamentalists will not rest until Israel is pushed into the sea. Israel is too strong for them to do that. It is terminal deadlock.

    Many of the posters here do not know anything of the history of the conflict or how many times the Palestinians have been offered statehood but refused. Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Syria are Arab countries which have either normalized formal relations with Israel or are at a state of relative peace.

    As long as the Palestinians continue to allow themselves to be used as pawns by extremists like Hamas and Hezbollah who want to annihilate Israel as opposed to having a homeland for Palestinian refugees, the problem will exist.
    ——————————————————-

    An excellent summary

  19. David Avatar
    David

    We can engage in back and forth debate with merits on both sides but when the dust is settled we can agree that it seems like total destruction no solution.

  20. Inkwell Avatar
    Inkwell

    There nothing to contradict and take the wind out of the sails of Bad man saying nuttin’s attempt to legitimize Israel’s actions, nothing except FACTS, that is.

    The Israelis knew full well that the cargo contained NO WEAPONS and that the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.

    Their action was solely to prevent the aid reaching Gaza so that they could maintain their stranglehold on the territory. They were determined that no one was going to flout their blockade.

    All ships were thoroughly searched by local port authorities in Greece and Turkey prior to their departure. Additionally, the coalition hired an independent security firm to search the ships and certify that no weapons were on board. All passengers went through nonviolence training and were likewise searched for weapons prior to boarding. The Turkish government, a member-state of the NATO alliance, vetted all the Turkish passengers to insure there was no one with ties to extremist groups. These precautionary steps were deliberately taken to prevent Israeli propaganda officials from ever being able to claim that the Freedom Flotilla posed any ‘security risk’ to Israel.

    There was a live satellite feed broadcasting the voyage from the Mavi Marmara, as well as GPS transponders showing the exact location of the flotilla at all times to anyone viewing the coalition website. The intention of the Freedom Flotilla was never to ‘provoke a confrontation,’ but simply to deliver much-needed humanitarian aid to besieged Gaza, and in so doing to draw attention to the brutal Israeli policies that are forcing the Palestinian people into a state of impoverished dependency.

    On 27 May, Bloomberg News reported that Israel was threatening to use its military forces and “use all available means to stop the ships”

    On 28 May the Associated Press reported that the Israeli government was prepared to stop the flotilla “at any cost,” including being “prepared to use force.” (‘Israeli gunships head to sea to block flotilla’). It was further reported that masked naval commandos were being “trained” to stop the flotilla.

    Israel is sure that it can commit any act of terrorism and get away with it. Even forging passports to commit MURDER overseas doesn’t bring condemnation from its collaborators.

  21. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Inkwell, “The israeli’s knew full well that the cargo contained NO WEAPONS and that the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.”

    “The action was solely to prevent the aid reaching Gaza so that they could maintain their stranglehold on the territory. They were determined that no one was going to flout their blockage.”

    First: “…the passengers had no ties to terrorist groups.”
    Really!!!

    The following is a transcript from Al-Jazeera TV.

    Reporter: “Despite the Israeli threats and several unexpected delays, the arrival of the ships at the meeting point before sailing to the Gaza Strip *INFLAMED* the emotions and the enthusaism of the participants.”

    Visuals from the Gaza flotilla ship young Muslims shouting Islamic battle chant invoking the KILLING and defeat of Jews in battle.: ‘[Remember] Khaibar, oh Jew! The army of Muhammad will return [Khaibar is the name of the last Jewish villiage defeated by Muhammad’s army and it marked the end of Jewish presence in Arabia AD 628]
    Reporter: “While singing songs reminiscent of the Palestinian *Intifada* (palestinian war against Israel, 2000-2005), participants expressed their longing to reach Gaza” [Based on Islamic call before battle: “Either victory or Martyrdom”) [Al-Jazeera TV, May 29, 2010).

    “Hamas’s Al-Aqsa TV chose to glorify flotilla participants who shouted the Islamic battle cry by broadingcasting an interview with a university lecturer who referred to them as ‘those with faith and will.”
    Hamas TV Host: “Strong motivation.”
    Shayyeq Naaman: “One woman standing on the ship said that now we are awaiting one of two happy endings: either Martyrdom or the beaches of Gaza.”

    “Al-Jazeera also reports that before the confrontation, flotilla participants announced that they would use “resistence” against Israel. *Mukawama8 (resistence) is the Arabic term used by Palestinians to refer to ALL VIOLENCE against Israel, inculding terror.”

    “The foltilla inculdes hundreds of Arab and foriegn solidarity activists from more than 40 countries…They have announced their determination to use RESISTENCE to any attempt at piracy by the Israeli occupation.” [Al_Jazeera website, May 29, 2010].

    Now, does the above quotes sound like peaceful people, on a mission to bring aid to Gaza, who ARE ALREADY receiving 15,000 tons each week through regulated organizations, UN and Red Cross, and Israel made it abundently clear, THAT they would willingly allow the aid through their own ports, BUT, not directly to Gaza, as there IS a *War* going on between Israel and Hamas, who have launched THOUSANDS of rockets and mortar fire INTO Israeli towns, and have stated in the Hamas charter, that their SOLE intent IS to wipe Israel of the face of the earth.

    Can any logical, reasonably thinking person, in the face of the vehement, openly declared intent of HAMAS, Hezbollah, Iran, the PA, and other Arabic, Islamists, who HATE the State of Israel and all Jews, and whose SOLE agenda, is the ANNIHILATION of Israel, expect Israel to do other wise than what they did in boaring the ship, and NOT properly armed, as they DID NOT expect these so-called innocent people to ATTACK them, how can one soldier decending on a rope, deal with 6-10 radically inflamed, terrorist-oriented Islamist, who HATE Israel and Jews?

  22. Checkit-Out Avatar
    Checkit-Out

    Another article on the Israeli terrorist actions in the Mediterranean

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/06/01/the-mediterranean-massacre/

  23. Bad man saying nuttin Avatar
    Bad man saying nuttin

    I am not an Israeli apologist. I don’t support or condemn them. It does not make one ounce of difference to me. It does not affect whether I eat sleep work or die.

    I have simply tried to show the thought process involved esp for the Israelis.

    Given what I said do you think the Israelis will trust their national security to Greek and Turkish authorities? or a private security firm?

    Do you think that they will take a chance that another boat didn’t rendezvous with the flotilla? Would the US have allowed somebody else to inspect Russian ships when they blockaded Cuba? Think man Think

  24. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    The utter ignorance of so many in the world and right here on BU, regarding Israel historically, for THOUSANDS of years, that Jerusalem IS the Capital of ancient and modern-day Israel, yet, listen to the perceived, so-called moderate leader of the PLO, Abbas.

    “World opinion was that a replacement for Arafat would bring with him a voice of moderation and, sure enough, upon Arafat’s death, the world welcomed his ‘moderate’ successor. This was a change without a change, because he is quoted as saying:

    ‘It is our duty to impliment the principles of Yasir Arafat.”

    And what exactly were the ‘principles’ of that Grandfather of modern-day Terrorism, Yasir Arafat? To have and control ALL the land that is rightfully Israel’s.

    “This was a change without a change, because, true to the PLO colours, the night following his election in January 2005, Abbas publicly proclaimed that he would INTENSIFY the war against Israel: ‘The little Jihad [under Arafat] had ended, and now the big *Jihad* is beginning.” But everyone wants to ignore these types of remarks, and Israel is presurred to give up more and more land – NOT for peace, but only as confidence building measures, to show the ‘Palestinian’ people that their leader is able to gain more and more territory for them with ‘no strings attached’, that they should have confidence in him, that Israel will be whittled down by him, little by little – according to the doctrine of The PLO Phased Plan. And four months later in a televised speech, on the occasion of Israel’s Independence Day, this ‘moderate’ leader described the 1948 creation of the State of Israel as an unprecendented historic crime and vowed his unwavering refusal to EVER “accept this injustice.”

    Hear Abbas:

    “We will celebrate once we reach our goals and establish a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital…Jerusalem is closer than ever. We promise you, Arafat…we will continue to follow your path and carry out your promise that Palestinian girls and boys WILL wave the Palestinian flag ABOVE the walls of Jerusalem, its mosques and churches. We will continue until victory…Our forces…are ready to FREE the ENTIRE land (Israel). (Prophecies For The Era of Muslim Terror, p.126) emphasis added.

    The ‘land’ that the State of Israel rightfully has as their Covenanted, God-given State, agreed to by the League of Nations, and the UN, IS NOT the problem, as there IS enough land, MILLIONS of square miles within the vast Arabic nations, to completely satisfy over and over again, a State for their Palestinian brothers, BUT, they WILL NOT do this, why NOT? Because, it will then realease them from tormenting the State of Israel and ALL Jews, as they HATE, DO NOT want the State of Israel to EXIST, it must be totally destroyed, wiped off the face of the earth, ANNIHILATED!

  25. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    how can one soldier decending on a rope, deal with 6-10 radically inflamed, terrorist-oriented Islamist, who HATE Israel and Jews?

    Easy Zoe….by not descending the rope.

    Would you agree that your rhetoric can also be found in the average israeli, in terms of their hatred to Palestinians?
    I could list hundreds of quotes by high ranking Israeli officials that sound similar to those of Hamas.
    You talk of all this aid getting to Gaza but what Gaza needs is the rebuilding of its infrastructure such as power stations, water pumping stations, buildings, homes and schools etc.
    Israel refuses to let building materials in, using the stupid reason of the Palestinians building bunkers (wtf). The only aid that gets to Gaza is what Israel allows for whatever flimsy reasons.
    I would ask you to put humanity first but given your take on Haiti, it would be an exercise in futility.
    So while we await prophecy to be fulfilled, thousands of people, old and young, men and women, children and adults, continue to suffer at the hands of God’s chosen people.

  26. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    New Israeli Tack Needed on Gaza, U.S. Officials SayBy ETHAN BRONNER
    The Obama administration considers Israel’s blockade of Gaza to be untenable and plans to press for another approach, U.S. officials said.

    Joke of the day, should have posted it in the jokes corner.

  27. Dictionary Avatar
    Dictionary

    Onlookers:

    With great reluctance, and in the interests of correcting a few outright slanders and much unbalanced information, I will — having had a correspondence with the Blog Owner on the matter — give some corrective information, for the record.

    (Those interested in prolonged points scoring debates will be reminded that they were more than met on their own terms in the past few months, and plainly came off the worse for the exchange. This is a for the record, and an expression of my disappointment with the all too common poor level of public commentary and lack of concern to be sound or fair in our region — a few notable exceptions notwithstanding. I also point out that we have a duty of care to be accurate and fair, so the excuse of being “challenging” or that people are “free” to make corrections, or whatever other excuses may be trotted out, cannot justify misleading, deceptive or slanderous or outright defamatory remarks. Nor can it justify a blog owner or moderator enabling and allowing such remarks to pass uncorrected.)

    I will do so in the main by giving a link to my own discussion, noting the onward links on the general legitimacy of Israel on its modern history, and on the relevant law of Blockades in times of war.

    (I note that Zoe and others have been quite correct to point out that there is in fact no real humanitarian crisis [though, sadly, there is much poverty; in significant part caused by a foolish policy of war on the religiously motivated declaration of intent to commit genocide against Jews in the Hamas Charter Clause 7, instead of developing the territory through properly using the billions in aid that have been available]. Similarly, in excess of 100 tons of food, medicines etc are trucked into Gaza per day from and through Israel, in addition to the water supply and electricity. Also, each year, many thousands of Gazans routinely seek and obtain world class medical help in Israel, much of it free. Dual use materials such as cement [bunkers, tunnels] and pipes [rockets . . . routinely used to bombard Israeli civilians] are more tightly controlled, to hinder diversion to military or terrorism uses. Plainly, though, Israel differentiates between the civilians and the terrorist warlord regime that has them in thralldom. Quite different from the persistent behaviour of Hamas and other groups responsible for over 6,000 rockets launched at civilian areas of Israel from Gaza in the five years since disengagement; noting too that in 1979, Israel offered to return Gaza to Egyptian control as a part of the settlement at Camp David, but Egypt refused to take responsibility for the Gaza strip their armies had captured during their 1948 invasion of Israel, launched a day after its Declaration of Independence under the UN partition resolution. And the wider context of a build up to an Iran-backed missile war against Israel should be understood. One should have hoped that he world would have learned a lesson from the appeasement attempts of the 1930’s; but, alas the ongoing Iranian campaign to acquire nuclear weapons on declared intent to destroy Israel gives the lie to such forlorn hopes.)

    An examination of the six videos in the linked will make it clear beyond reasonable doubt that:

    1 –> a blockade was in effect [a joint Israeli-Egyptian one . . . Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood responsible for murdering Sadat for daring to make peace with Israel],

    2 –> the flotilla knew about it, were intent on running the blockade, were warned and kept going.

    3 –> In particular, the flotilla’s captains were informed that the ships should go to Ashdod, and that the humanitarian supplies would be inspected under their observation and sent to Gaza [which has happened, 20 truckloads then being refused entry by Hamas, on a propaganda point].

    4 –> The captains refused, as can be heard in one of the videos.

    5 –> That the Israelis chose to use a minimal force approach [boarding with soldiers armed with paintball guns and having sidearms they were ordered to use only in defence of life], and that was enough for five of six vessels.

    6 –> On the sixth, they were met by rioters working as in effect a lynch mob armed with hammers, knives, metal rods etc. This culminated in the moment visible in the video below, where a soldier was thrown headfirst to a deck 30 ft below, having been stripped of his defensive sidearm. That gun was apparently then used to shoot two Israeli soldiers. This soldier is apparently one of two in critical care.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&hl=en_US&fs=1&]

    7 –> At this point the Israelis — after it seems some forty minutes of the melee — had orders to shoot, and regrettably this led to significant loss of life. Which is being investigated to see what fault lies where.

    8 –> The ship was towed into Ashdod, joining the other five.

    9 –> Those on board were held, and — it seems apart from some that may be subject to action in a court of law — they have subsequently been deported from Israel.

    10 –> 20 truckloads of supplies were duly trucked to Gaza but have been refused entry. (It is to be noted this apparently includes expired medicines and items of equipment etc that routinely are transferred across the border. The issue does not seem to have been real humanitarian relief but the provocation of an incident intended to break a blockade intended to stop a terrorist campaign.)

    11 –> In a ratcheting up of the crisis, a second group of ships is in transit towards Gaza, on the same claim of relieving a humanitarian crisis.

    ____________________

    So, while anger at the loss of life is understandable, we need to pull back and recognise that there is much more to the story than meets the casual eye.

    Good Day

    Dictionary

  28. Dictionary Avatar
    Dictionary

    F/N: A link to a for the record, corrective comment may have gone awry. Good day.

  29. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Bad man

    If you were living and remember the 1973 oil crisis you would not say, “It does not make one ounce of difference to me. It does not affect whether I eat sleep work or die.”

    What happens in the middle-east has the potential to affect the whole world pal.

    @all Israeli supporters

    I am not one who believes that the Jews have any God given everlasting right to own or reclaim territory in that region. At the same time I am not against their existence in the region, but they should have respected the 1947 borders as recognized by the UN Security Council. Instead they have encrouched and continue to build more and more settlements on Palestinian land. I also believe that since the old city Jerusalem is of so importance and contention for both sides, Jerusalem should be made a neutral city controlled by the UN Security Council. So here’s my solution which I think is fairest thing that could happen:

    1. Israel withdraws to 1947 borders.
    2. Jerusalem becomes a neutral city.
    3. The new state of Palestine is established.

  30. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Glad to see you Dictionary
    Your standards of logic coherence and facts in debae is sadly lacking in the routine ramblings of the rabble on BU— and these are folk that are supposed to be litterate and to have ben educated.

    Whereas we might not like what is happening, we can tery to ascertain the facts and judge righteously raher than by our emotions or misinterpretations or our biases.

    What is clear is that the whole world is against Israel- just as precicted in the Psalms. Knowing this Israel does what it seems best for its people and its survival.

    Welcome back Mr Dictionary.

  31. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Dictionary,

    Welcome back.

    Now do not be childish and run off again.

    Why not try to be a little less obtuse with more concise posts. It would help to be a little less insulting.

    I am sure you would generate a little less hate this way and your interaction here would be enjoyed more by yourself and others.

    For a start, stop telling us you are “correcting” everyone. This is an open forum. You are not the teacher, we are not your students.

  32. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Dictionary

    You wrote plenty and I didn’t bother to read all (don’t have the time), but you made mention of Sadat’s assasination. So can you tell me who assasinated Yitzhak Rabin in 1995, and why?

  33. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    PRINT PAGE
    Jihad in humanitarian clothing
    06/03/10 at 12:00 AM ADVERTISEMENT As world organizations, nations and international media rally together in their favorite cause célèbre of vilifying Israel the Gaza flotilla attack, the country finds itself again on the defensive, trying to explain to the world why it instituted the blockade of Gaza and what part the terrorist organization Hamas is playing in that blockade.

    Hamas’ stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map. In fact, in Palestinian schoolbooks and maps Israel is nonexistent. Hamas has many sympathizers who share its goals politically and ideologically, most notably al-Qaida and Iran. Both are welcomed in Gaza with open arms and are creative in supporting Hamas and smuggling weapons in support of their holy war against the Jewish state. This latest incident, though, sheds light on another ally of the terrorist group, the Turkish-based International Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH).

    So who are these poor “humanitarian” activists Israel tried to stop on the flotilla?

    IHH is an associate of Hamas and a member of the Union of the Good. This Union is headed by Yousef Al Qaradawi, one of the world’s most notorious Islamic terrorists (banned in England and America) and leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. IHH was already involved in the purchasing of automatic weapons from other militant Islamic groups as far back as 1990 when their President Bulent Yildrim was focused on recruiting “Veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming Holy war [jihad].”

    Simply put, IHH is a jihadist group cloaked in a humanitarian outfit. It has played important roles in terrorist operations such as the Millennium bomb plot and has been involved in weapons trafficking.

    Israel, well informed of IHH’s background and activities, tried speaking to the group before they left the dock and then again while at sea. In an attempt to avoid confrontation, they hoped to persuade the IHH Flotilla to change direction and dock at the Israeli port of Ashdod for inspection before delivering the goods to Gaza. Israel had nothing to gain from a confrontation – but the IHH did, which explains why its members wrote their wills preparing for martyrdom before departure. As one member of the group put it: “We are going to have one of two victories. We either get to Gaza or get martyrdom.”

    These “humanitarians” are jihadists on a mission from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen, Kuwait and Bahrain. They even brought their young children on board fully knowing that this would produce an international media blitz demonizing Israel and distracting the world from the real story.

    The lesson here is that Islamists and jihadists have become masters of media manipulation, a task made easy by the degree of willful blindness, naiveté’, and political correctness so epidemic in the media and among world leaders. They have had decades of practice to learn how willfully gullible much of the Western press is when it comes to their alleged grievances and their claims of victimization – especially when it comes to Israel.

    I witnessed this growing up in a bomb shelter in Lebanon watching media reports that never seemed to line up with what we Christians in Lebanon were experiencing at the hands of militant Muslims. I saw this again as news anchor of World News for Middle East Television in the 1980s, as I reported on the rise of Islamic terrorism.

    Today, Islamists are emboldened by a U.S. administration that is incapable of correctly defining “jihad” and has made clear by its actions that it sees Israel as the principal roadblock to peace in the Mideast. Islamists expect the very response they are now getting from much of the world community, the media, and the Obama administration in the wake of the Gaza Flotilla incident.

    With so much “positive reinforcement,” expect more belligerent acts from Hamas and its friends in the weeks and months to come.

    Brigitte Gabriel is a terrorism analyst and Two Times New York Best Selling author of “Because They Hate” and “They Must Be Stopped”. She is President and CEO of ACT for America.org

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/03/jihad-in-humanitarian-clothing/print/#ixzz0poZsm12e

  34. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    PRINT PAGE
    Will our peace prize-winner lead us into a new war
    06/03/10 at 1:28 PM ADVERTISEMENT
    “During his campaign for the 2008 election, Mr. Obama promised to brand the mass killings genocide.” That’s how the left-wing BBC described one of Barack Obama’s promises in his most successful election campaign of two springs ago. It seemed so easy then to satisfy every group of voters. Everyone, it seemed, was getting in step behind the pied piper.

    Now, we see the fruits of that campaign. Or, as the Rev. Jeremiah Wright might say: The Mideast chickens are coming home to roost. Last March, when the Democratic-dominated House Foreign Affairs Committee voted 23-22 to brand the Turks’ mass killings of Armenians a century ago a “genocide,” the Turkish government of today reacted angrily. The Turkish people have been voting for an ever-more alarming mix of nationalists and Islamists.

    So much for the politics of sentiment. So much for being—as columnist David Broder recently called Barack Obama—“the Empathizer in Chief.” If you feel every group’s pain, you’re going to be in for some real pain of your own. Here it comes.

    Turkey backed a blockade runner, a large ferry boat that could well have included in its capacious hold arms and munitions for the Hamas regime in Gaza. Israel last weekend attempted to enforce their blockade. They wanted only to inspect the ferry’s cargo. The melee on the ferry deck showed “peace” activists attacking the Israeli commandos with sharpened iron bars. When the Israelis fired back, 10 of those on board the ferry were killed.

    International condemnation of Israel has been swift. This has followed a UN Resolution over the weekend that called upon Israel to comply with the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel. Well, if you can’t get any results from Iran, why not put some extra pressure on your ally, Israel? The Obama administration stood by impotently while this potent anti-Israel resolution passed.

    Israel is in graver danger today than she has faced in recent memory. In 1948, when the State of Israel was proclaimed, she was invaded simultaneously by five Arab armies. But, and a most important but, the U.S. stood staunchly behind the infant Jewish State.

    President Harry Truman defied his Secretary of State, George Marshall, the man he most admired in the world, to recognize Israel just eleven minutes after independence was declared. That timely demonstration of U.S. support helped avert disaster then.

    Twenty-five years later, Israel was attacked in 1973 on Yom Kippur by Arab armies led by Egypt. The initial battles went badly—disastrously so–for Israel. But President Richard Nixon—though increasingly surrounded by the congressional hounds pursuing Watergate convictions—summarily ordered the U.S. military to re-supply the embattled Jewish State.

    Many have since written that Nixon’s spontaneous action may have saved Israel at its moment of maximum danger. Surely, the USSR was unwilling to risk a nuclear clash—even with a politically wounded Richard Nixon—over so important an ally as Israel.

    In 1948 and 1973, Israelis could at least rely on American liberals to support their claims.

    No more. No sooner had the clash on the high seas occurred than liberal blogger Peter Beinart joined the worldwide anti-Israel cabal by posting on “Israel’s Indefensible Behavior.”

    We now face a real prospect of a new Mideast war, one in which Israel will be beset by Iran, by Iran’s cats paws, Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Even more menacingly, we could see Turkey—long Israel’s only Muslim ally—join this unholy alliance.

    Who is responsible for this serious downward spiral in the Mideast? Who else? When the Obama administration spends its first year “extending an open hand” to the murderous mullahs in Tehran, and when it fails to do anything meaningful to stop Iran’s march to nuclear weapons, when the administration stiff-arms the Israelis, and treats Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu like a pariah for building apartments for Jews in the capital of the Jewish state, the wolves of jihad gather. They scent blood. Will this be one more chapter in the lamentable story of how weak and irresolute leadership leads us into war?

    We must pray it doesn’t happen.

    Ken Blackwell is the co-author of the No. 1 bestselling book “The Blueprint: Obama’s plan to subvert the Constitution and build an imperial presidency.” He is Senior Fellow for Family Empowerment at the Family Research Council. He serves on the board of directors of the Club for Growth, the National Rifle Association, and the National Taxpayers Union. Mr. Blackwell is a contributing editor for the conservative news and opinion site Townhall.com, and his columns frequently appear in the Washington Times, New York Post, Wall Street Journal and National Review Online. He was a columnist for the former New York Sun. He is a visiting professor at the Liberty University School of Law.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/03/will-our-peace-prize-winner-lead-us-into-a-new-war/print/#ixzz0pobSNZU4

  35. Bad man saying nuttin Avatar
    Bad man saying nuttin

    @ Not saved

    Everyone on this forum can be a teacher. You can learn a lot from brilliant logic and well researched positions. Sometimes you can learn even more from biased, idiotic or illogical positions and statements.

    @ Atman you might be surprised to hear this but I agree somewhat with you regarding your solution . Not 1947 boundaries though.After the 1973 war would be fairer.
    The problem is that militant Arabs will never accept this neither will militant Jews and there are many more militant Arabs than Jews. The problem with revolutionaries/Jihadists is that they are reduced to insignificance when the campaign ends. Then power is gone.

    Oh and I reiterate unless the world is destroyed what happens in the middle east will not affect whether I eat, sleep, work, live or die. Food grows every day, fish swim in the sea. our coastal waters are still full of life. What happens in the middle east may affect whether I eat Kelloggs or stew potato for breakfast but I will eat and work and sleep and live until God decides it is my time to die.

  36. David Avatar
    David

    @Dictionary

    What is it about freedom of expression you don’t understand? It seems
    any opportunity for the PEOPLE to air its views is regarded as an
    alien concept.

    All you need to do like others have done is to lay your side of the
    argument. Commonsense would support the view that if the Israeli/Arab
    conflict was so black and white as you are painting, it would have
    been solved a long time ago.

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Actually David it is not going to be solved until the Lors returns as predicted because the Arabs are hell bent on destroying Israel.

    This seems very hard for the world to see……..but then again that is yet another prediction that is even now being fulfilled.

    There will, however, be ushered i a time of “false peace” before all hell breaks loose.
    THERE WILL BE NO PEACE UNTIL THE PRINCE OF PEACE COMES

  38. Dictionary Avatar
    Dictionary

    David:

    I simply came back to check.

    Since you have explicitly addressed me, I will take a moment to respond, before I walk away permanently; having put some corrective truth on record and called for a different tone.

    Apparently and sadly, to no effect.

    I see that, even more sadly, you are still conflating two very different things: [a] freedom of expression, and [b] defamation and slander. Any lawyer can tell you that when you slip from a to b, you are in a very different game.

    Believe it or not, there is a global push that seeks to delegitimise and smear both Jews and Bible-believing Christians. So much so that those caught up in it too often cannot admit basic and simple truth staring us all in the face ;just look at the videos, and contrast the news and commentary over the past few days]. Instead, half truths, baseless assumptions and assertions, outright lies, twisted out of context claims, and worse are too often used to try to push agendas that — by dint of resort to such gutter tactics — plainly cannot stand on their own merits.

    Just look at the new atheists in action.

    And, the new antisemites.

    In the case of BU, freedom of expression, yes; but this does not confer a right to be irresponsible, bigoted, one-sided, biased, and slanderous.

    For, as wise King Solomon said so long ago: life and death lie in the power of the tongue.

    Let us use the power of communication to build, on truth and with fairness, compassion and even love; not to feed or enable or excuse the monsters of bigotry and slander.

    For down that road lie the all too well known and predictable results of hate.

    Goodbye, David.

    I hope that, one day, BU will do better.

    But for now,

    Goodbye.

    Dictionary

  39. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    @ HOPI

    OFF MESSAGE & JUST IN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Thought you’d love this ‘ole chap!!!

    A New Earthquake Hits Haiti: Monsanto’s deadly gift of 475 tons of genetically-modified seeds to Haitian farmers…

    http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19113

  40. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    OFF MESSAGE & JUST IN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    People who use cell phones for at least 30 minutes a day over the course of 10 years have a greater risk of developing brain cancer, according to a landmark study from the World Health Organization.

    The chance of developing a malignant tumor is increased by more than a third with prolonged use.

    According to the Times Online:

    “The outcome of the 10-year Interphone study – the largest of its kind, compiling research from 13 countries – has been eagerly anticipated by both the phone industry, which contributed substantially to its funding, and campaigners who warn of radiation risks from handsets.”

  41. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Bad man

    You and I will disagree on the border issue. UN Resolutions 242 (in 1967) and Resolution 338 (in 1973) speaks specifically to the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security. The 1947 borders are legally recognised borders of Israel under UN Resolution 181.

    All countries need to have respect for UN Security Council resolutions. Without an international governing body the whole world becomes a free-for-all, go-as-you-please, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest, chaotic mess. Guess we could say it’s already that way…but it could get worst.

  42. Terence M. Blackett Avatar
    Terence M. Blackett

    DAVID@ BU

    OFF MESSAGE AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Thought this would be of interest given the plight of our young people>>>>>>

  43. ac Avatar
    ac

    @Dictionary

    Jimmy Carter decries Israel actions on the high seas.

    Question: Does that make him anti semic. or an atheist. I remember Jimmy Carter saying that he is born again believing Christian. Seems contary to some of your comments about Christians.

  44. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Why is it that Christians believe the world hates Israel?

    My questions to Zoe, Dictionary and all the Jewish apologists is simple…..is Israel totally without blame throughout the history of their existence?
    Have the done nothing wrong to the Palestinian people?
    I personally don’t see it as a case of the world hating the Jews or Christians for that matter. I see it as people condemning injustices and unfair collective punishment of the Palestinians by the Jewish state.
    I would like to see Zoe respond to what Atman posted on the betrayal of the Palestinian people by Britain.
    The problem is that the Christians have no choice to stand on the side of Israel, otherwise their belief system an all its prophecies will come crumbling down. That is good for them but nonbelievers also have their right to decide for them selves and come to their own opinion even if it is contrary. Such is the world we live in.

  45. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Dictionary do not leave. You and I can do battle against these misinformed commentators.

  46. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    @Technician

    You are quite correct with regards to Christian beliefs and Israel. It is obvious that they base their opinions on their interpretation of the scriptures…or how it is was interpreted for them. The rest of us take a more objective view of the situation. I consider myself to be a spiritual person who believes in God and Creation, but I refuse to buy into that crap that says there is something more special about the jews than all the rest of us. Utter rubbish.

  47. Atman Avatar
    Atman

    Oh boy…Mr AH is claiming to be informed again. LOL

  48. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Some salient important facts to be noted, that other ships in the flotilla were boared peacefully by Israeli soldiers, whose plan was to take the ships to the port of ashdod where the supplies they wished to transfer to Gaza would be inspected and if they contained nothing to aid terroism, would be transfered to the people of Gaza by Israel; we now know that Hamas has rejected such, another PR stunt for more propaganda. Only one ship, the Mavi Marmara, decided to make war. They got war, and it wasn’t pretty, but it was necessary. The information below is provided by the Israel’s Foreign Ministry.

    1. A maritime blackade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Isrsael is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

    2. Maritime blockades are legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

    3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar accesss to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

    4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blackade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirements of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.

    5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.

    6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.

    7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockade area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

    8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander’s Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

    9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.

    10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captians of the vessels, expressing Israel’s intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.

    11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.

    12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.

    But, the world has bought into the infamous use of Arabic, Islamic ‘Turnspeak’ a cynical twisting and inverting of FACTS, that have been used relentlessly for over 60 years, to vehemently, viciously, and malignantly make Israel look and appear as the aggressor, rather than the victim it is.

  49. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Techie ma boy

    Re
    The problem is that the Christians have no choice to stand on the side of Israel, otherwise their belief system an all its prophecies will come crumbling down.

    That is a nonsequitur my friend. Whether believers stand on the side of Israel or not the prophecies with respect to Israel are even now being fulfilled, and will continue to be fulfilled.

    And yes indeed “nonbelievers also have their right to decide for them selves and come to their own opinion even if it is contrary. Such is the world we live in.”

  50. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Atman
    Yes we base our opinions on our opinions on our interpretation of the scriptures…

    To say that our position is not objective is a non sequitur also. If you considr our position to be personal or subjective——so is yours. If anything ours is more objective since it is founded on the solid rock of the Word of God.

    The Word of God says throughout that Israel were awful sinners who rejected him and whom he would uproot from the land that he gave them. He also promised to regather them to the land.

    This happened in 1948, against tremendous odds. And they have maintained thier national identity since

    One day soon the WHOLE WORLD WILL STOP TALKING AND THEIR ARMIES WILL MARCH AGAINST JERUSALEM. Then we will see if our interpretation of the Scriptures is correct or not. Be patient nuh? LOL

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading