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We Are What We Eat, Alloxan And All!

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Submitted by ROK (as a comment)

The food that you eat everyday is laced with drugs. The amount of people dying from cancer; the amount of people with asthma; the amount of people with diabetes, where did you think they get these conditions from?

Consider this. We have a flour mill in Barbados bleaching white flour as it has been bleached for about the last 50 years. Now the by-product from bleaching flour is a substance called Alloxan . Look it up.

Alloxan is a drug that is used to induce diabetes in rats so that scientists can study diabetes. They used to fool us that diabetes was hereditary. We know that it is the flour and that drug that eats away at your pancreas. You legally buy the flour that is killing you and these people selling it to you at record profits, but you are not complaining. You want to lock away your own people who, like the shop-keeper getting the flour, getting their hard drugs from the large drug lords and selling them the same way.

I put it to you, that the drug retailer is as innocent (or guilty) as the shopkeeper who selling flour and those who making and wholesaling the flour are no different from the ones making the cocaine or crack. They are as equally damaging but I don’t hear you say lock up the flour mill and the shopkeeper for selling things that destroying people’s lives.

You understand that you cannot get away from the alloxan flour? Bread, biscuits, bread crumbs that you put in your gravy, the dumplings, coconut bread, etc… but also whole wheat bread because they take the white flour and mix it back with bran flakes and some pills which are supposed to replace the wheat germ, cream of wheat, etc., that they take out of the original flour.

Just think about anything that is made from/with flour and to eat it is to destroy your life. Let’s go:

Batter to fry chicken (meats) with;
the sweet biscuits you give you children;
the corn curls;
You are a vegetarian and eat gluten?
The muffins;
the stuffing
the fish cakes
the patties
the shortbread
salt bread
sandwich bread
cookies of all types
and the list goes on.

Just take a look at the labels on the foods you buy and you will find either flour or modified corn starch. These are the foods with the drugs that are destroying our lives, not the drug dealers.

As for marijuana, I hope that you know that Canada is a leading cultivator of marijuana; legally too.

Take a look:

We cannot continue to be fooled by people who doing the same thing for bigger profits and then condemn our own in the worst way; wish death upon them, but smile all the way to the supermarket for a bag of flour. What is that?

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265 responses to “We Are What We Eat, Alloxan And All!”

  1. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Anon
    Man, this is simply the medical fraternity closing ranks. They do it all the time. Remember that people got their heads cut off for saying that the earth was round. This is not proof of anything except the state’s protection of the medical profession. This has done nothing to bring us closer to the truth. Why don’t you close all those fast food joints that causing so many medical problems too.

  2. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    One GP really knows how to prance up. Wonder what you prancing up at? You happy to see me discredited? LOL! Well wheel and come again, because the hard facts are that you have no proof of anything. You in the same boat as I am. Think about the many doctors who killed people by their own negligence but still practicing.

    Of course Dr. Wakefield had the guts to stand up for something. However, I see nothing wrong with what the goodly doctor did. He choose a different way to go about it. I know people were paid to be part of research. That is so common nowadays. In some instances, I have heard of people who get paid to take vaccinations or medication of some type in the USA. What could be more unethical?

  3. ac Avatar
    ac

    http://www.alloxan.com has informative information about alloxan . You be the judge after reading , some seems to support what “King Rok” is saying.

  4. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Wonder if these drug companies will lose their license for breaking the confidence of parents:

    Meningitis vaccine for babies recalled over contamination fears

    Britain’s medicines watchdog has authorised the recall of 21,000 doses of a Meningitis C vaccine used to immunise young babies due to contamination fears.

    The drugs are part of 60,000 single doses ordered by the Department of Health as part of its routine Meningitis C (MenC) vaccination programme for all three and four-month-old babies.

    The affected batches of the vaccine, which is sold under the trade name Menjugate, were delivered by the manufacturer, Novartis Vaccines, in January and February. So far 21,000 doses have been sent out to GPs and clinics.

    The Department of Health said it had received no reports of adverse reactions among babies to the MenC vaccine, either now or in the past. It, the MHRA and Novartis have all issued assurances that the recall is purely precautionary and there is “no evidence” that the vaccine is tainted or poses a risk to health.

    The recall is nonetheless likely to reawaken parents’ fears about the safety of the Government’s vaccination programme, fears which have yet to fade completely since the mistaken alarm over the combined Measles Mumps and Rubella vaccine for children.

    “When parents take their children for vaccinations it is essential that they are confident that the vaccine is safe,” said Andrew Lansley, the Shadow Health Secretary. “I hope that ministers will provide that reassurance as quickly as possible.”

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article5807660.ece

  5. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Interesting document filed in the supreme court:
    http://wakenews.net/Evidence_of_the_use_of_pandemic_flu_to_depopulate_USA.pdf

    One more thing. Flouride, that dangerous by-product in toothpaste:

    “Dangers of fluoride on the TEETH”

    “For decades, the medical community and government officials have recognized the increased risk of DENTAL FLUOROSIS associated with exposure to fluoride. Dental fluorosis is a direct result of overexposure, resulting in discolored teeth (yellow, brown, or spotted) and a breakdown of tooth enamel. Children aged six months to five years are particularly vulnerable to dental fluorosis.

    “When determining the permissible levels of fluoride in the drinking water, the EPA acknowledged the risk of dental fluorosis, but claimed that it was simply a cosmetic effect and not a medical one; therefore, further regulation on this basis was unwarranted. However, research shows that dental fluorosis serves as the first sign of fluoride poisoning, which can have much more serious effects on the body.”

    http://www.fluoride-osteosarcoma-law.com/dangers_fluoride.html

    What else? I mean this is to the total discredit of the state.

  6. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ac

    I think I am doing and have done my bit to make people aware. It is up to them if they are so addicted to white bread that they would take comfort in Dr. GPs advice that the amounts of alloxan in white flour is negligible, because I say to them, that wherever they find out about poisons they should eliminate them from their diet. Only in trace amounts is not good enough and it is downright irresponsible act to try to allay such fears.

    I intend to talk about alloxan until the whole of Barbados knows about it. I intend to extract some answers from the flour mill and also for them to make unbleached white flour available on the market as well as promote the use of whole grain flour, which is on the market thanks to Sam Marshall (the first known producer of it in Barbados), my brother and I.

    Another thing they should be forced to do is put warnings on any product which has bleached white flour in it and that includes their 100% whole wheat flour. I ain’t going to miss a beat. Not only that, once the campaign is successful, I guarantee that you will see a reduction in diabetes in Barbados.

    Bajans consume a lot of white flour. Just ask any baker.

  7. David Avatar
    David

    @ROK

    Can you cite which other countries are doing regarding making people aware of alloxan?

  8. ac Avatar
    ac

    @Rok

    Thanks for sounding the whistle. Education is necessary . I never was aware ot this product.

  9. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @David,

    I have not seen any national (government) efforts. The only thing I have seen is that the private sector in larger metropolitan countries are making whole grain flours available on the market, including unbleached white flour. This seemed to have develop as a result of niche marketing over the years when certain cottage industries expanded their markets and popularised their product; creating the demand. See example: http://www.hodgsonmill.com/home/

    There is barley flour, rice flour, wheat, corn, or any grain can be milled into flour. In T&T, you can find bread made with whole grain flour. They are far more popular than white flour bread… but as I said, no national efforts.

    However, with Barbados being the amputation capital, I think we need to take the initiative.

  10. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Rok wrote “promote the use of whole grain flour, which is on the market thanks to Sam Marshall (the first known producer of it in Barbados), my brother and I.”

    So Rok you are or were one of the first in facto and de facto suppliers of whole wheat flour and without full disclosure sought to attack your competitor the supplier of processed white flour.

    Why this late disclosure of your legacy as one of the three importers of healthful whole wheat flour?

    I doan care doh.I gine stick to whole wheat cause in truth an in fack I doan like white bread nuh moh unless it is a bajan salt bread wid 2 or 3 fishcakes in it.

  11. David Avatar
    David

    @Hants

    Maybe you should switch to vegetarian bread:

    27th April, 2009

    Most bread ‘not fit for vegetarians’
    Most bread sold in shops is not fit for vegetarians because it is baked using animal products, food campaigners say.
    ( 14 )
    At least 90 per cent of loaves are made with additives which could include enzymes from the pancreas of pigs.

    Most bread ‘not fit for vegetarians’
    These are used to speed up the baking process.
    But because they are destroyed during cooking, bakers are not required to list them as ingredients, according to the Real Bread Campaign group.
    These claims cast doubt on the vegetarian status of pre-packaged and in-store bakery bread, said Philip Lowery, director of the campaign, which represents local and organic bakers.
    ‘This is a significant issue for vegetarians, vegans and Muslims, whom I believe would be outraged if they knew this was in their bread,’ he added.
    ‘We have written to the industrial bakers, asking them to voluntarily label their bread or stop using these additives, but have yet to get a reply.’
    Campaign organisers are offering the public warning stickers to put on bread and urging them to sign a petition against additive use.
    The Federation of Bakers, which represents makers of leading brands such as Warburtons, Hovis and Kingsmill, said consumers need not worry.
    ‘UK bakers have nothing to hide. All wrapped bread produced in the UK is clearly labelled and strictly adheres to EU legislation,’ said director Gordon Pol

  12. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    The best wheat flour around is stone ground whole wheat, or whole wheat “atta” flour. I made coconut bread using atta flour. I also use it for fish cakes. I put half atta and half ‘hard flour’ in my cakes. By the way, the hard flour is what we used to get in Barbados years ago at 10 cents a pound, while the soft, extremely bleached sold for 12 cents a pound. We poor people always bought the “cheap’ ten cents flour.

    Atta flour is what the Asians use for chappati, roti, naan, etc.

  13. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Hants
    I got out of that business a long time ago. I used to make stoneground whole meal flour under a label called E&K Healthy Products. I also made the bread, but unlike Pat, I never mixed it with white flour; also sold under that label.

    The reason why whole meal flour is on the market is because I sold the business to the flour mill and they are producing it up to today. That was more than 20 years ago. I just did not have the investment to produce the quantities to satisfy the demand. The demand from the biscuit company alone was over my head… so rather than let Barbados suffer, I sold it to them and they expanded it.

    There is a product called guinea corn, which is wild wheat, that Bajans use for jug-jug. Whole meal flour is virtually the same thing, except for the strain of wheat, but you can’t tell the difference by sight or taste, so there were people buying my flour to re-sell as guinea corn.

  14. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Rok I am sorry you had to sell the business but I am not surprised.

    Getting venture capital for a business in Barbados was virtually impossible back then unless you had the right god father.

    It might be easier these days.

    Prehaps you could get into the “Health Products Business” again. Health Bread made from organically grown Guinea corn.

  15. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Rok

    I have bad news for you.

    The reality is actually even more stringent that your above posts are promoting.
    There is no doubt about your position that ‘bleached white flour’ is essentially a slow poison to the human body….all humans.

    However, I want you to do some research on the impact that individual body chemistry has on different food types. Generally, by individual body chemistry, I am talking about individual blood types.

    You will find that persons of different blood types react quite differently to the same foods. What is an excellent, beneficial food for type O can be cancer causing for type AB and what causes chronic ill health with type B’s, may be an excellent food for type O.

    Do your own research – …but I can definitely tell you that ALL wheat (gluten) products are counter indicated for type O’s…. particularly type O’s of African descent.

    One man’s food is another man’s poison!!!

    I will leave the actual chemical and biochemical analysis to ‘real real’ experts…. but it should be only natural to expect such differences in reaction to the same foods if the blood types are indicative of different biological characteristics.

    …of course, as a simple bush man, this all seems like basic common sense to me – but what does a bushman know….??

  16. David Avatar
    David

    It should be interesting to read MME and Doc P’s take on the Bushman’s recent comment.

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re “the impact that individual body chemistry has on different food types”.

    At last, we read somethng of SCIENTIFIC SENSE
    For all drugs and xenobitics we must consider pharrmacokinetics and pharmacdynamics…….
    what the body does to the agent….and what the agent does to the body

    We must also consider comparaive animal studies. The fact is that all diseases that are induced in mice are not induced in men. This is a well established fact. Exeriments begin in mice because they are cheaply produced and are thought to be expendable.

    Whereas mammals have SIMILAR metabolisms, they are not all the SAME. There is a difference between men and mice in many cases . Check the litterature. Just read one or two chapters of either baby Robbins or momma Robbins text book of Pathology.

    to say “There is no doubt about your position that ‘bleached white flour’ is essentially a slow poison to the human body….all humans” is an opinion only.

    There must be some doubt or it would have been reported in the literature by young researchers in Pathology, rather than in BU by a moron who claims to have had an unproven diagnosis of diabetes by imbibing sweet drinks and flour thrice daily for three months!

    Science FACTS are not established only by COMMON SENSE, but also by SERIOUS STUDY BY TRAINED ACASDEMICS lol!

    Because diabetes is produced in mice by substance A when given to it in high doses relative to its body weight, does not mean that it does the same in men.

    What is the half life of the agent? Do we know that? .
    What is its clearance from the body. Do we know that?
    How is it distributed? Do we know that?
    What does the body do to it in the liver?
    Have you heard about enzyme induction in the liver?
    Do you know that the liver is well equipped to easily eat up all those keto groups of alloxan, as if there were fish cakes?
    If one takes a trace amount of a substance, what quantity of the agent is left after the first pasage of the agent throgh the liver?

    We talk much about common sense, but we are not thinking with common sense in this discussion nor are we approaching it scientifically.

    Because the King Jackass says so it is so!
    Because you gys hare scholarship and true knowledge you would not apply common sense to scientific methodology. It is hilarious. Very hilarious.

    Let King Jackass go to conferences all over the world and spout the BS I have read here with out facts, and see if he wont be laughed out of the room. His methods and approach is accepted only by those pof his ilk on BU!

    No one on BU appart from a few are willing to learn. It is not all about common sense. IT IS MORE THAT COMMON THINGS ARE COMMON!

    If you have an epidemic of diabetes and amputations in Bim there is something that is COMMON that must scientifically be addressed in a common sense way by persons with the KNOWLEDGE to do so. Not by a ;oud mouth moron who does not KNOW, AND DOES NOT KNOW THAT HE DOES NOT KNOW.

    Your suggestion about leptins now twice made is perhaps the most common sense consideration I have read. But wont that present more as an allergic reaction rather than as a long term phenomenon.

    A COMMON SENSE APPROACH would be to take histories from the diabetics and amputees secondary to diabetes in the registry of diabetics (if there is one) and delve into thier life histories, and ask about their care and attention to managing their diabetes.

    From managing diabetics in Bim in my hey day. I think that you will get closer to the answer there. That is sound epidemiology. It is in that way that aetiology or causation is determined. SOUND SYSTEMATIC STUDY not random erratic conclusions. by a bird brain moron stupoid enough to use sweet drinks and bread thrice daily for three months..

    I gone hear? for now

    Going to have some alloxan laced white bread LOL

  18. David Avatar
    David

    @Doc GP

    Using commonsense which many believe is not common your recent comment raises a question. By your own admission

    “Whereas mammals have SIMILAR metabolisms, they are not all the SAME. There is a difference between men and mice in many cases . Check the litterature. Just read one or two chapters of either baby Robbins or momma Robbins text book of Pathology.”

    speaks to the fact that the results from such studies provide an indication and cannot be said to be conclusive as far as how not one but multiple agents can impact the human metabolism. Against this background don’t you think the public is entitled to question?

  19. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    LOL GP… a “well read googler” like myself has no particular advantage over anyone else with internet access… least of all a medical doctor and professor like yourself… you should have no trouble finding “those links I googled on molecular modeling theory”. The facts remain (a) GLUT2 transports alloxan (in men and mice) due to its structural similarity to glucose, and (b) GLUT2 is underexpressed in human beta cells, which accounts for the human pancreas’ high resistance to alloxan. GLUT2 is the dominant transporter in mice, while GLUT1 is the dominant transporter in men… that is what accounts for the difference in alloxan’s effect on humans and rodents.

    By the way, the biological action of importance when comparing glucose and alloxan structures in relation to GLUT2, is ‘facilitated diffusion’… hence the relevance of steric structural similarity.

    So to recap… both you and ROK are wrong LOL… (1) alloxan most certainly did not cause ROK’s diabetes (if in fact he ever did have diabetes… I suspect he was misdiagnosed and am surprised he even trusted those doctors that diagnosed him in the first place… but I digress LOL), and (2) alloxan IS transported by GLUT2 in both humans and rodents.

  20. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    @David

    BT is on to something with the blood type/diet issue… sadly, I think that ‘something’ is Mount Gay Extra Old. LOL. I suspect that he may still be conducting those ethanol experiments he started a few months back, in an attempt to see things from MME’s perspective.

    While there may be a connection between blood type and the way our bodies handle food… the conclusions and recommended diets by proponents of this ‘theory’ are unfounded.

    Here is a good link for more information: http://www.skepdic.com/bloodtypediet.html

    Ironically, a sound understanding of evolutionary theory allows one to easily distill fact from fiction on both the alloxan and blood type issues 🙂

    … for example, the difference between the effects of alloxan in rodents and humans as well as the origins of the ABO blood types become clearer when examined through the lens of evolutionary theory.

  21. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Common sense dictates that we google this.

    alloxan induced diebetes.

    I gine an watch cricket.

  22. Call a spade... Avatar
    Call a spade…

    You folks are getting so hung on the minutiae of alloxan
    and white flour that you are missing the big picture.
    Yesterday, at 6.27 pm, ROK posted a link at http://www.wakenews.net that you all should read. If you have some time to spare you can go right to the heart of the matter and google “Jane Burgermeister”. I will say nothing further that might influence your judgement of the material you read.
    regards

  23. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    David
    Re May 30, 2010 at 8:35 AM It should be interesting to read MME and Doc P’s take on the Bushman’s recent comment.

    Why didn’t you ask King Rok to opine on the Bushman’s comment. LOL

    MME man you not fair at all, man

    Re LOL GP… a “well read googler” like myself has no particular advantage over anyone else with internet access… least of all a medical doctor and professor like yourself… you should have no trouble finding “those links I googled on molecular modeling theory”.

    Don’t have the time to waste man. Not really interested in the structure” of glucose that you are hung up on man. Straight formulae and Fisher and Haworth’s projections are satisfactory for my purposes OK? And I am very confident that using those formulae, that glucose is not in the same chemical class as any pyrimidine even if they are sterically structuraly similar. And you know that too! Or you need to know that, even though you cant bare to admit that what I am saying is true. But thanks for your education, man

    Kindly note that in the final analysis if alloxan is delivered to the liver the LIVER DOES NOT GIVE TWO HOOTS ABOUT STERIC SIMILARITY. The liver works according to FUNCTIONAL GROPUPS PRESENTED TO IT.

    BTW though I am a medical doctor, I don’t consider my self a professor. I do not at all subscribe to the American style of calling every one who teaches in a college or university a professor. I like the British system of designating persons professor.

    How could you say that I am wrong about the fact that “alloxan most certainly did not cause ROK’s diabetes (if in fact he ever did have diabetes…)  When I have been MOCKING ROK and saying that all along.

    Surely you picked up the sarcasm, about the SOLITARY CASE of the jackass who imbibed alloxan laced white flour bread for three months thrice daily? Didn’t you pick up the “scoffing rude” in the invitation to go to medical conferences and spew that bovine excrement. Man I would have gone with him and videotaped the comedy for CBS tv. Didn’t you see the accepted (though fraudulent) list of the causation of diabetes that I posted?

    I KNOW that he was obviously misdiagnosed; but I had to enjoy myself man. Unlike you I am NOT surprised he even trusted those doctors that diagnosed him, because he only chats nonsense, but when he got sick he hastened to the “physicians” for their aid. Laughable. I am surprised none of the BU choir did not pick up that.

    In due case I will post the differential diagnosis of Rok’s condition. You see the sweet drinks and bread thrice daily for three months is just a red herring that he presented to the doctors. LOL

    So 1 alloxan IS transported by GLUT2 in both humans and rodents. AND
    2 GLUT2 is the dominant transporter in mice, while GLUT1 is the dominant transporter in men… and

    3 GLUT2 is underexpressed in human beta cells, which accounts for the human pancreas’ high resistance to alloxan. accounting for the difference in alloxan’s effect on humans and rodents. SO TELL THE BU CHOIR EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS MAN.

    Because they are not willing to take it from me.

    You see I have not googled or studied about or looked up alloxan once yet , because I know that if it was OF IMPORTANCE IN CAUSING DISEASE IN HUMANS I WOULD HAVE READ ABOUT IT in the medical literature. BT would call that COMMON SENSE! LOL.

    I wonder if the idiot that was citing nonsense she downloaded in her attempt to support King Rok, and contradict me as has been her wont since she appered on BU about 8 months ago, would go to the Medical Library and ask for INDEX MEDICIS and check the abstracts therein to ascertain what articles have been reported in the literature about the relationship between alloxan and diabetes. LOL I doubt very much that she has the intellect to do so.

    I agree with you that BT is on to something with the blood type/diet issue… I agree with you also that sadly, I think that ‘something’ is Mount Gay Extra Old. But I have to be careful saying that. The jackass scoffed when I posited it as a cause. But you see, I have had the experience of seeing many such cases of ACQUIRED DIABETES in Bim! And excess use of the ethyl member of that chemical family has long been documented as a cause for both acute and chronic pancreatitis & DIABETES.

    I just returned from the pizza buffet place called Cici’s, where I saw a number of people getting diabetes from eating that white flour pizza.

    Mr Call a Spade

    I was not getting down on the minutiae of alloxan and white flour at all.

    I was just having a ball debunking all the bovine excrement he was producing. King Rok could be a very rich man. All he has to do, is go and talk into Lowdown Hoad’s biodigester.

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    David
    Re your question on // May 30, 2010 at 8:58 AM
    Against this background don’t you think the public is entitled to question?

    Of course the public is entitled to question. But should not the public then listen and hope fully learn from those who might just know a little bit more than said public?

    Must no one debunk the junk spewed by the BU donkey?
    MME & I disagree on the structure of glucose & alloxan in our emphasis ; he stresses a STEREOCHEMICAL structure, whereas I stree other structures that are in ALL Biochem texts. BUT MME IS BRINGING ESTABLISHED ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC FACTS TO THE DISCUSSION! He is not all over the place like a fast bowler who has no idea where the stumps is.

    BT proposes leptins as an associated cause. Again he brings ESTABLISHED ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC FACTS TO THE DISCUSSION! He is not all over the place like a fast bowler who has no idea where the stumps is.

    That is the difference to King Rok. Hecomes with some controversial BS and want to force it down folks throats without considering ESTABLISHED ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC FACTS which he says is fraudulent.

    With respect to comparative metabolism, MME cited an example in his post above re GLUT 2 transporters.

  25. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @MME
    I hear you. One question I want to ask. What is it about white flour that is so bad? Here is my reasoning, if the flour is harmless, then eating it should not cause a negative effect on the body. If we say that we are not eating sufficient fibre and we correct this, then eating the white flour should do no harm, right?

    The reality is that even when you are getting the required fibre, the addition of white flour has a seriously negative effect on diabetics. Hence, I am asking the question, what is it about the white flour that causes this negative reaction?

  26. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ MME
    BT is on to something with the blood type/diet issue… sadly, I think that ‘something’ is Mount Gay Extra Old.
    ***********************************************************************************************
    That was LOW MME!!!
    ……what exactly do you consider ‘sad’ about Mount Gay Extra Old?? LOL!!
    I will have you know that it only took the bushman one sip of one drink to decipher your perspective…and then it was back to the bushman’s teetotaler ways….. (mauby and crushed ice)

    …and what a disappointing perspective yours has turned out to be!

    MME I am truly disappointed that a man of your undisputed intellect appears to be so quick to be guided by ‘accepted positions’.
    If gifted persons such as yourself all take this stance we may as well close down this aspect of BU.

    How can we advance knowledge if the brains among us adopt the position that “the accepted textbooks say so – therefore it is so” ?

    What we are seeking is informative discussion which allows questioning of the fundamental assumptions and which may well lead to more informed conclusions than the often biased ‘positions’ that derive from many so called ‘expert’ conclusions.

    How can you dismiss my blood type theory just because some doctor used dismissive and insulting language in saying how he felt about D’Amano’s idea?
    If you are not prepared to, or interested in, delving into the concept you can just say so….

    I myself have studied the matter for many years and in great detail – and I have no doubt at all that there is merit in the concept. I am also aware that many doctors do not subscribe to the idea – largely because it is not covered in their accepted textbooks – but I disagree with yours and GP’s position that seems to suggest that the medical texts are the final authority on matters of health……What a Joke!!

    It is well known that numerous Chinese, Indian and African medicines, cures and concepts exists, which completely defy western medical knowledge.

    I therefore would like to suggest that we be wary of dismissing ‘unorthodox’ contributions and contributors. Rather we could seek to understand where they are coming from and at the same time share your impressive technical perspective….
    ….it is called synergy and it really works and can produce impressive results.

    The Bush man is therefore joining with BU David and calling on Rok and GP to cut out the childish banter and to respect each other’s different perspective.

    Bushman is also calling on MME for some kind of apology – nothing big, just an admission that you were dead wrong about the effectiveness of BP’s attempts in the Gulf.
    Even you must now be beginning to understand the bushman’s early hints that THIS is the catastrophe most likely to become the mother of all catastrophes……

  27. ac Avatar
    ac

    @GP
    You are such a pompous jackass .You seem to think that you and themedical community has all the answer , However people have a right to seek alternative answer. It behoofs me to think that if anyone dares to differentiate from your opinion you would resort to name calling . “SOME “KINDA CHRISTIAN ARE YOU!.Yes they are many other people who support what Rok is saying . Maybe you ought to direct the name calling towards yourself!The Medical Journal and all the books you read are not God and neither are you.

  28. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I will invite persons who are reading this thread when you visit the supermarket to check the packaging of foods with the following agents as preservatives

    pyruvate
    lactate
    acetate
    citrate
    isocitrate
    alpha ketoglutarate
    glutamate or monosodium glutamate
    succinate
    fumarate
    malate
    oxaloacetate
    aspartate

    Now we know that ALL of these substances are “natural” and even produced endogenously in the body. Could it be possible that used in high doses via preservatives, that these substances could be causing diseases?

    We do know that glutamate and aspartate, besides being amino acids are transaminase pairs, are involved in synthesis of nitrogen bases for DNA & RNA as well as being excitatory neurotransmitters in the brain. Could becausing trouble elsewhere.

  29. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Bush Tea

    The sad thing about Mount Gay Extra Old is that it is a real cause of SOME of the diabetes in Bim.

    What you and King Rok need to understand is that ‘accepted positions’ have been forged in the crucible of observation, and constitutes a base or foundation for further study..

    If you will diagnose lots of acute appendicitis it helps to know that the tip of the inflamed appendix USUALLY lies at McBurney’s point (half way between the umbilicus and the anterior superior iliac spine). But it helps also to KNOW the contents of that page in Grant’s Atlas that indicates the percentages of the anomalous locations.
    The first case I saw operated on as a student showed the tip lying up by the liver. It was an extra long appendix which took up its abode in the right paracolic gutter!

    Actually the gifted do not all take the position that “the accepted textbooks say so – therefore it is so” – at least not absolutely. But we accept the untrained morons not to be baulking at the accepted because it does have some merit!? Knowledge is advanced by starting with what is already known. This is a truth taught even at CAWMERE in Geometry classes! Perhaps you missed school that day or was not attending. LOL

    The first day out there on my own when I first saw my first ectopic pregnancy, the protocol that I was taught kicked in, and I was right! But the woman lied in giving me the history and threw a red herring across the trail. So I picked up the phone and called a consultant, and I stupidly followed his advice and sent her home, with instructions to call me at a set time if she felt no better. She DID HAVE AN ECTOPIC PREGNANCY, and I know the rest of the story because the ambulance driver was the elder of my church at the time. She went straight to surgery were she belonged.

    The protocol that ALL WOMEN OF CHILD BEARING AGE ARE PREGNANT UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.

    Re If gifted persons such as yourself all take this stance we may as well close down this aspect of BU. How can we advance knowledge if the brains among us adopt the position that “the accepted textbooks say so – therefore it is so” ?
    What we are seeking is informative discussion which allows questioning of the fundamental assumptions and which may well lead to more informed conclusions than the often biased ‘positions’ that derive from many so called ‘expert’ conclusions.

    Man why are you deciding how debate should go? I have not seen any such rules on BU as a condition for participation.
    And is not “informative discussion” often mocked and scorned?
    If fundamental assumptions are to be questioned should they not be presented as such- questions? In stead we have illiterates pontificating, and much time is wasted clearing up dogma that is unfounded..

    Neither MME or I said that the medical texts are the final authority on matters of health. We know that it can ntake about 215 years for stuff to get into texts, man.

    I have not attacked your blood type theory (leptins) because I have heard my cousin , whose opinions on natural medicine and Basic Sciences I respect profoundly

    I also respect MME, and I don’t know what he read on the matter, but he knows how to read the literature.

    But because BT has himself “studied the matter for many years and in great detail – and I have no doubt at all that there is merit in the concept.” MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! LOL ha ha ha you walked into that could not resist dat wun

    I know that many doctors do not subscribe to much that is not covered in their accepted textbooks – but not all are like that.

    Now with regard to your discourse and diatribe about dismissing the ‘unorthodox’, please kindly note that I have taken a course in Botanical Medicine offered by a Naturopathic school of Medicine in Canada, and that I often discuss many ‘unorthodox’ modalities with him. I have personally seen him work “magic” with two needles on a woman who seemed to be having some psychotic episode.

    I shared information from that course on this same forum a few months ago. It is archived for all to see.

    I have often asked you to judge righteous judgement, and not by the appearance. LOL

    Re The Bush man is therefore joining with BU David and calling on Rok and GP to cut out the childish banter and to respect each other’s different perspective.

    When your friend Rok was cussing me all through 2009, and I refused to rerspond to him, YOU & DAVID WERE ASKING ME TO ENGAGE. Ah lie? Well I engaging now OK?

    I am not engaging in childish banter with King Rok the jackass. I am debunking the BS that he brings to the table, and his stupid attitude. And I reserve the right to laugh and mock his BS unbtil the cow’s come home— and long afterwards!

    There are 3 things I abhor
    1 BAD TEACHING OF THE BIBLE
    2 BAD TEACHING AND PRACTICE OF MEDICINE
    3 WACHING BAD CRICKET
    You are asking for synergy, But yet the jackass is braying and saying accepted medicine and protocols are fraudulent. Every time he spews bad medicine on BU HE WILL BE CORRECTED AND DEBUNKED!
    Whereas one ought to see where others are coming from, when they are spewing BS they must be debunked. If you bowl bouncers expect that good batsmen will hook. When the jackass brays about medicine and he is wrong he will be debunked and I will have great fun in mocking him. I share knowledge with those who earnestly seek to learn. Fools are MOCKED!

    I will, however, support your view that the occurrence in the gulf is likely to become a very great catastrophe. I agree with one of the smartest Christian women I know that this event mirrors and prefigures a similar event that will occur in the eshaton re a third of the fish in the sea etc……..

  30. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ac

    I am a pompous ass. But I know my medicine! What do you know?

    I know that you are semi illiterate, and that you don’t understand much of what is written on this thread.
    But please kindly note re “SOME “KINDA CHRISTIAN ARE YOU!.

    EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN I KNOW IS A SINNER!
    I KNOW NO PERFECT CHRISTIANS
    A CHRISTIAN IS BY DEFINITION A PERSON WHO IS SINCERELY SEEKING TO FOLLOW CHRIST BUT HE IS STILL A SINNER

    THE SOLE JUDGE OF WHO ARE CHRISTIANS AND WHO ARE NOT is THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. I wont send you to the references, because you evince an inability to understand written English.

    The medical community does not have ALL the answers. BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN THAT ALLOXAN IS A POISON THAT CAUSES DIABETES.

    I do not have all the answers. But what I know, I know well! And I know when some one is spewing BS!

    Generally, the way to know what is wrong or likely to be wrong is to know what is right, and the right way to go about finding out what is right. See if you can work out that.

    IF King Rok seeks to advance that as a theory to be proven, he should proceed by what is called the Scientific Method. He has not.

    People have a right to seek alternative answers, but when the BLIND FOLLOW THE BLIND THEY WILL BOTH END UP IN A DITCH!

    Note that on this thread that MME has disagreed with me. I have called him no names, nor have I called you any. You do not know me, but you have attacked me from the first day you came on BU.

    The fact that many people agree with your King Rok means nothing to me. He is wrong, and he is going about trying to find out the answers the wrong way.

    Re The Medical Journal and all the books you read are not God and neither are you. NEITHER IS KING ROK THE BU BRAYING DONKEY Ah lie LOL

    Now can you add anything to the discussion of consequence? I doubt it very much.

  31. ac Avatar
    ac

    @GP
    The fact that I posted www. alloxan .com has rubbed you the wrong way . You have not visited the website but has launched an attacked on my intelligence as you have done in previous post even when I had not call you any demeaning names. Having said that . THe way a man thinketh so is he and that goes to the nature of that person and has nothing to do with his or her intelligence. You come across as a dictator and any one who dare to disagree would be beheaded. Well let it be known your intelligence does not phase me one way or another and I am in no way impressed. It is people of high intelligence no one should trust as they tend to be selfcentred and highly critical of others opinion. You seem to be very threatened by differing opinion.

  32. ac Avatar
    ac

    The medical association does not seek the cause . They only look for symptons. Then hand the patient a barage of different drugs to slow the death process.Finding the cause is what we are talking about . So get Real GP

  33. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ GP

    Thanks for the detailed response.
    However the ‘gifted person’ that the bushman was talking about was MME. If you wish to vote yourself into that group feel free to do so, but you already know what Bushy thinks about advice from doctors about good health…

    I am very disappointed that a man of your claimed scholarship feels constrained to use such personal attacks – even if you feel that you were first attacked….. but if you HAVE to! after all, why should YOU turn the other cheek?…

    @MME
    Would you agree with me that the Top Kill plan was complete nonsense from the very start? It was only slightly more stupid than the first ‘top hat’ joke.
    I posit however that operation ‘Top Kill’ was a complete success. The only purpose was to buy one week of time – and BP did that.

    Point here is this. We cannot trust any of these so called experts. Routinely, they all LIE, controlled by hidden agendas.
    BT is willing to bet that when the true story is finally told, BP needed that week to cover some big behinds…..

    DO NOT TRUST THEM MME!! Think for yourself, and be very skeptical….

  34. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    But BT… you like you didn’t read what I wrote… I acknowledged that “there may be a connection between blood type and the way our bodies handle food”.

    I went on to suggest that I was uncertain about the connection, and nothing I have read by D’Amano so far changes that… however, I will reserve judgment for the moment and get back to you when I have reviewed the subject more thoroughly.

    As for the oil spill… like I said to you on May 23 “From where I sit, it looks like we have another 4 months or so before it is brought fully under control”. I believed the containment box approach was the best chance of containing the leak until the relief well is completed… unfortunately, it didnt work… although I wonder why they didn’t attempt to use hydrate prevention and mitigation methods before abandoning this altogether and moving on to what I think are more challenging options.

  35. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    ROK,

    White flour is very low in nutritional value and full of high glycemic carbohydrates. This means that a diet high in white flour is similar to a diet high in sugar or alcohol, and therefore similarly “has a seriously negative effect on diabetics”.

  36. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … before GP jump all over my last comment, ‘alcohol’ should have been omitted.

  37. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @MME

    Thanks for that response. I just want to share my experience. You see, I got a different reaction from sugar than white flour. Sugar builds up but white flour hits you one time. The other thing is that a bit of black strap molasses in anything sweet, reduces the effect of the sugar somehow.

    Using the black strap, I could drink more than one sweet beverage everyday without any reaction at all. Secondly, adding sugar to Whole Meal bread also has virtually no effect at all, especially when you also add black strap molasses. You can actually substitute that bread for rice or other starch for lunch.

    Now if you add black strap molasses with the sugar to the white bread, you still have to be careful eating it. Another thing about sugar (and I mean brown sugar) is that there may be times when your energy feels sapped and a little sugar will give you a boost; not so with white flour. Actually, with white flour, you feel a bit more drained even though you have eaten something.

    Now, alcohol. I could drink alcohol all night and feel none of the negative effects that you can get with sugar or white flour; especially gin. I know many diabetic alcoholics that drink rum daily. Not sure how that makes them feel, but I ain’t going down that road, but obviously, they don’t get the needles & pins to numbness that you would get with excess sugar; at least not sufficient to make them stop or even moderate.

    Just sharing, because some think that when you seek further, you are ignoring information and you are headstrong… but while it is ego for him, it is life for me. He thinks that once he explains it I should be satisfied and take what I get. However, based on my own experience, there are some myths somewhere in what I would call, “the standard information”. That is why I am seeking to find out why the flour has such a serious effect when sugar don’t seem to be so dangerous and alcohol, even less. I am asserting my experience rather than disputing your knowledge, maybe we can meet somewhere in between.

  38. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    OK MME. Correction on alcohol accepted. I still have the problem with white flour vs sugar. Take the standard information which recommends that you eat one slice of bread. When eating Whole Meal bread, you can eat as much as six slices with no effect at all, although it has in the sugar. I dare you do that with white bread or even the standard whole wheat bread which is also constituted with the white flour, if you are a diabetic.

    Hope you get the drift.

  39. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Bush Tea
    I know that you think that I am not gifted, but that’s OK BT Folk that matter KNOW different. And I have made my contribution already in Bim , and continue to do so where ever I go before people of greater consequence OK.

    It makes common sense that doctors ought to be able to give good advice about health matters, whether you disagree or not. When you spend time reviewing the Basic Sciences as I have done, one should be able to do an even better job. You might not know this, but when I practiced, I listened to patients. Listed there complaints, and worked through them with the patients, often drawing sketches to explain things. I wished they had computers in those days, because that would have been more fun.

    You are biased BT and have a short memory, but it is archived that I turned the other cheek for18 months. It did not work. And you know it. Did I counter attack when you were most unkind to me? No I did not. But I have absolutely no respect at all for folk who attack attack for no reason, but are unable to bring any thing to the table.

    I do not care about your disappointment Sir. Why do you think that you should have the right to express your disappointment in the way you did, and when you like and that I should not have the right to express my disappointment in my way?

    Be fair man.

  40. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @ GP

    Man, you like you at the pulpit tonight.

    However, I am not a medical person, but I like my food.

    I was always of the opinion that the food staple of the majority of the world’s population was rice. You say white flour. Pray tell, dont you realize that all of China, India, Japan and the Phillippines eat rice three time a day. For breakfast, lunch and dinner, and it is incorporated into their snacks and dessserts as well. In South America it is maize (corn), beans and potatoes. In Africa mostly maize, beans and linga linga. In Europe it is potatoes the middle east various forms of cracked wheat (bulgar). These foods are their staples, not white flour.

    It seems to me that cultures not brought up with white flour are not keen on it and I do move around, especially if food is on offer. Just add the populations of India and China and see what you get.

  41. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    ROK,

    Your observations regarding alcohol were the reason I was so quick to retract it from my earlier comment. While excessive alcohol use is also very bad for diabetics, it acts in a very different way to carbohydrates (it diverts the attention of the liver… and may actually reduce blood glucose levels). Moderate alcohol use is actually better than too much, or none at all, where diabetes is concerned.

    High glycemic carbohydrates like white flour and potatoes, break down and release glucose very rapidly into the bloodstream. Although I mentioned sugar above, in its unrefined form it has a lower glycemic index than white flour which probably accounts for your experiences.

    The glycemic index (scale of 0-100) of glucose is 100 (naturally), baked potato is 85, refined sugar is 80, white bread is 70, softdrinks are 70, raw sugar is 65… black strap molasses is 55. The lower on the scale the better.

  42. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re
    Finding the cause is what we are talking about .
    If you read my first post, on this thread you will see that I started by listing the causes of diabetes. If you could only understand you will see that I have been taking CAUSATION or AETIOLOGY from the beginning but you and your King Rok were so fixed on alloxan as the cause that you could not see anything else.

    Your bias put blinkers on your eyes.

    If alloxan was indeed a cause I would have said so, and explained WHY I THOUGHT SO I have sincerely brought great information to this discussion in terms of Pathology, Biochemistry, Epidemiology in an attempt to educate, and the response from the time the Braying donkey returned was downhill. Crusoe was engaging in a sensible discussion, and the donkey came and shut it down, but has brought absolutely nothing to the discussion of substance..

    The fact that you posted www. alloxan .com did not rub me the wrong way IT AMUSED ME IMMENSELY! I visited the website and can tear it to thread and explain the Chemistry there purveyed very easily! My comments are a mockery of your pithy little ploy to defend the indefensible in your profound ignorance. If you want to attack me and contradict me or try to demean my contribution at least BE RIGHT! BE CORRECT!.

    And No I don’t feel threatened by differing opinion, I love to debunk it and mock it when its WRONG WRONG!. I enjoy such, especially when the person is incorrigible!

    You came to BU attacking me. You think that contradicting everything I say is fun. And I think that you are a moron. You can not even understand what a metaphor is. I have tried to converse with you but its like pulling teeth!

    Last week you took a simple honest statement I made and twisted it and twisted it in your stupid sordid substandard mind, when everyone knows that I was talking about a phenomenon that is universal in colleges. Cases are reported on National tv in the USA weekly, and I have seen it since my Cave Hill days and it was indeed rampant at BCC.

    Do you think that I care if you are impressed by me? You said that in your very first post months ago. There are so many powerful and important folk that are impressed by me, who can read and write properly and understand what is being said when a simple term is used like I am the Door It’s a metaphor. These people have employed and even sent me as far as the Cook islands all expenses paid to teach. People of high intelligence tend to KNOW and have the right to be critical of others opinion especially when morons who do so are WRONG WRONG.

    I do not care two hoots how I come across. You come across as an illiterate and Rok as a braying jackass. You are all saying what you like. You criticize me as you wish. BUT I am supposed to turn the other cheek.

    But I am indeed a fool. HOW MANY DOCTORS ON THE REGISTER IN BIM CARE ENOUGH TO SPEND THEIR TIME ON BU SHARING THE ANMOUNT OF MEDICAL INFORMATION THAT I HAVE SHARED ON BU IN THE LAST 2 PLUS YEARS.

  43. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @MME

    Let me lay it on the table for you. These are the things that take me out:
    Macaroni (including pie)
    Cou-Cou
    Sugar (refined)
    Commercial bread
    Ripe fruit
    Cooked carrots, pumpkin, squash, beets.

    These are the things that don’t take me out:
    Cheese
    Brown Rice (not even the white rice takes me out)
    Sugar & Molasses
    Whole Meal Bread
    Green to half ripe fruit
    Raw Carrots (Raw veg on the whole revitalises)

    You see that corn? Well let me tell you, it serious. My preferred corn is roasted. The cheese is no problem, yet I hear different. These are the mixed issues I have.

  44. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @MME

    I forgot to mention that baked potatoes, eddoes or yam do not have a negative effect but sweet potato in any form is like sugar. I tasted a mildly sweet potato which was not too bad at all. It was one of those small ones boiled. Like the water diluted the sweetness.

  45. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hi Pat
    Man, you like you at the pulpit tonight.

    Not really I just having some fun.
    There is too much bias on BU
    And too much ignorance

    Re I was always of the opinion that the food staple of the majority of the world’s population was rice.

    You are right about that in a way.

    But is not bread the staff of life?

    And dont all societies use a lot of bread with flour of all kinds?

    Have you not disagreed with me tonight?
    And have you not disagrred with me from time immemorial?
    But is your approach not different? And have you not got a different response?

    I found something new that you can use in your diabetic teaching (but I have been busy setting up a new course, and have not had the time to send it).

    I hope that you are getting good resuts with that

    Be good

  46. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    One other consideration may be quantities. I am dealing with the amounts that would make up a meal.

    For example, If I use rice & Peas with veg, I would substitute the same amount of rice with baked potato or cou-cou, etc.

  47. ac Avatar
    ac

    @GP
    You seem to have a selective memory. However let me remind you of the numerous times you have insulted others on the religious threads. Physician heal thyself.
    When it comes to name calling no one does it better than YOU!
    The medical association have endose many drugs only to find out that their side effects are harmful.Look at the tyenol debacle. I guess you are one who have prescribed it to many of your patients…..

  48. Sapidillo Avatar
    Sapidillo

    It amazes me how some people get all wrap up to the point of arguing over what is good or bad for consumption. The same thing goes on in the medical profession; one doctor recommends using ABC while another doctor suggests staying away from the same ABC. However, it is understood that in some cases it may have to do with a medical diagnosis.

    I have proven that what maybe good even as a health food for an individual is not always good for another person. Some people have been eating certain foods for a long time that contain lots of cholesterol/animal fat, sugar, salt, etc. and they have been in excellent health; their lab results have been in range year after year. I heard of two siblings who for fun and curiosity decided to eat and drink the same identical foods and portions. I think it was for six months. They got different health results. One of them were within range and the other a way out of range – one had a high Total Cholesterol and HDL, and normal Triglycerides while the other had normal results except for the LDL; their glucose and other results differ greatly.

    With people today becoming so health conscious, my point is be your own advocate and use your own judgment. To listen or read and follow what people write or say may not be what it pretends to be, or do or not do, and might cause health problems. There is more than the type of foods being consumed; lifestyle and individual metabolism is part of it. As heard many times before, “what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander.” So, if you have the feeling to eat or drink something, go for it but don’t over do it. Moderation, moderation!

  49. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    ac you moron!
    Do you know what tylenol is? ITS PANADOL! CALPOL PARAMOL etc
    Have you ever bought it over the counter and taken it?
    Do you have little children? Have you not given Calpol syrup or similar medicine to your little children?

    Do you understand the nature of what you call the tylenol debacle? No you dont. It had nothing to do with side effects.

    ac you are not mentally competent or educated enough to entertain the intricacies of paracetamol (acetamenophen) side effects and its management
    The medical profession do not endorse drugs. The FDA or similar body does. Doctors seek to apply their knowledge of Physiology Pathology and Pharmacology to their prescribing habits using and chosinmg as judiciously as they can from what is available.

    In my life time all of the real drugs that exist today have been designed and marketed. Through the ages there were very few agents of any value. Folk got better at God’s mercy or they died.

    In the 36 years I have been in medicine I have seen drastic improvements in many agents. You do not know what you are talking about.

    Sensible doctors practice this protocol NEVER BE THE FIRST TO ABANDON THE OLD & NEVER BE THE FIRST TO EMBRACE THE NEW.

    I trust that with your limited understanding and with your obvious betzpaenia, that you have learned some little thing this morning. Though a pompass ass and a 3/10 teacher I KNOW OF WHAT I SPEAK AND I AM ACCURATE IN MY PRONOUNCEMENTS.

    You may now continue to do what you are good at i.e act like the little dog in Jill Walker’s prints. And I will deal with your junk appropriately

    Now ran off and play with your dolls.

    .

  50. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Sapidillo

    You are so perfectly correct. Listen to your body, people, it talks.

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