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reparationsBarbados Underground (BU) is thankful for all the complaining we hear about our blog because it means we have freedom of speech. Thanks to Nancie .J Carmody who made the following quote famous: “I am thankful for all the complaining I hear about our government because it means we have freedom of speech.”

The evergreen race debate like immigration, homosexuality and topics of this tenor which BU is driven to blog about will always evoke passion. It is the nature of the beast. How can we debate the issue of race in a manner which is acceptable given the strong views likely to be provoked? The fact that we have people from different backgrounds whether influenced by race, education, socialization among other factors will make the race dialogue interesting.

BU finds it difficult for a Black person to be accused of being racist. It is our belief the word racist is often used interchangeable for ‘bigot’ or ‘prejudice’ by some. The BU household is always willing to learn from the BU family and welcomes feedback on our position.

We have demonstrated from our inception a strong commitment to freedom of speech. It is the reason why BU was given birth. As the world continues to follow the the furore over a black Harvard professor’s arrest here is what a contrite President Obama had to say “race is still a troubling aspect of our society.” Observers suggest Obama has had to retreat from his earlier condemnation of the Cambridge police officer concerning the stupid act of arresting a man who was understandably upset in the situation he found himself. If he did not USA may have become split down the middle on the matter of race. There was also the incident last month of White and Black groups clashing over how a young Black man was allegedly killed by two White men who had the charges dropped. The most embarrassing report of how race continues to boil in the USA is the portrayal of President Obama as a joker.

There we have it; it is one of the most liberal countries in the world which is often stated to be a melting pot. The issue of race remains topical. How can Barbados be immune from the issues associated with race?

Barbados Underground will not cower when we have to deal with the hard issues. Not too long ago BU was labeled xenophobic when we introduced concerns about the fallout from an open-door  immigration policy. Our concerns have now taken on a national, regional and global cry.

Black people were used as slaves by countries termed ‘developed’ to build out successful economies. In stark contrast most Black governed countries survive in a global realm which makes it difficult to achieve economic prosperity as a result of the geopolitical gymnastics at play.

How can it be changed? Will it ever be changed? Change is usually achieved through advocacy. History places Blacks at a disadvantage because of elaborate systems which have been created. It will take a long time for Blacks to penetrate the existing structures. In the meantime the 300 year plus emotional scares can only be soothed with verbal and monetary redress.


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641 responses to “The Race Card”


  1. @LIB

    I forgot the amount of wives or children may also bring status.


  2. L, I’m happy to answer but I’m still trying to c the point of the BNP question! The answer’s pretty obvious but, what’s the point ur trying to make bro!!


  3. “Men think in herds, go mad in herds, but recover their senses one by one.” – Charles Mackay…

    LIB @ “Think about what you would do if the BNP decide that it was going to kill all the black people in England–call it ethnic cleansing if you like. Be honest, now. Would you stay or would you leave?”

    ANS: HELL NO!!! Wrong century!!!

    “the british national party” – (please forgive my lack of capitalization) is a fringe, on the farthest margins of British society kinda’ unruly social mob of racists, fascists SCUM* dressed up in cheap suits and fondly (LOL) get to wear egg on their faces from decent Whites folks who do NOT want to return to an era marred by war, death and suffering of antediluvian proportions…

    This is NOT the 1930’s or 40’s…

    That period in European history still lingers bitterly in the mouth of vast swathes of the EU population…

    “adolf hizler” gained traction within Germany at a time when the “blue-eyed” male species could not free themselves from the historical tentacles of a pugnacious past rooted in self-hatred, internal strife and a lack of “love thy neighbor”…(hence the murderous squeals truncheoned on the ancient Huguenots, Lombardis, Ostrogoths and others) …

    Caucasoid against Caucasoid for 100’s of years!!!

    To add insult to injury, on the heels of a war it had fought less than 3 decades earlier – clearly nothing had been learned from WW1…

    So-called “ultra-right wing fascists, racists dogs” can bark all they want – unless they have the reins of overall political power in Europe and around the world, their bark is mere hot air and they are biting with rubber teeth…

    America is the only 1st world nation on earth to recognize that white supremacy’s shelf life has surely ran out… Time to bin the outdated, outmoded, can’t be sold, tired, boring looking philosophy which has brought nothing but mayhem and conflict between nations and peoples for over 2000 years…

    European nations will follow suit because the forces at work will guarantee it…

    Mark my final words – “when you see a Black POPE* in the Vatican, know that the world will never be the same again”…


  4. Quoting David:
    “@LIB
    We would have thought given your announced relationship with the gentleman you facilitating BU’s request would have been better received. Any thanks for your offer anyway.”
    Pure poetry. Move over Mr Yeats and Mr Shakespeare. A new hero of poetry is among us.
    As a writer of prose, of course, he’s at the level of my cat.


  5. Ouch!!

  6. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Terence/David
    I am just getting back to my messages and have not seen if anyone has commented on what you said about the BNP. No, my friend, the BNP is an issue for today. This is also easy to check. I do not like to spread racist material, so I even hesitate to circulate reports in the press. But look at the BNP website, and the story of a BNP leader/councillor and his car with “Nazi” number plates, from yesterday!

    http://bnp.org.uk/, http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23730120-details/BNP+councillor+faces+demands+to+quit+over+'Nazi'+number+plate/article.do

    When we do no take care with our facts we are not just dead wrong, but perhaps wrong and dead.


  7. @Terence M. Blackett // August 11, 2009 at 1:41 PM

    “Mark my final words – “when you see a Black POPE* in the Vatican, know that the world will never be the same again”…

    So, what is the significance of the pope, anyway? Except as an anti-christ?

  8. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ROK
    I take my involvement with all things seriously, even if they are also fun. I wont speak on the genocide from a theoretical point of view. I just go with what I know from friends who lived/live with it. I also have views on appropriate starting points, and we may never on agree on such issues. I often think that it is a matter of perspective if the real start is near to now or very far away.

    On Rwanda, David and my friend have been in touch and I see he has shared some information with David (that I have not yet read).

    I posed a question of you, that I regard as very serious, but appreciate the circumstances, and send condolences. I too have other things to attend.


  9. @Robin Hood
    “So, what is the significance of the pope, anyway? Except as an anti-christ?”

    Man what anti-christ what? The Pope anti-christ? Check your history. The Pope along with Constantine made Christ.

  10. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Sargeant
    Nigerian nurses: the matter needs to be ventilated. I’m not particularly interested in arguments that seek to lay blame on one party or other. There are principles and practices at work. If some political views lead a different way than others, then let’s discuss that.

    With no offence meant. On Sir S., I am not playing the parse game. I will seek my turn to ask him the questions I want and let him hear what I think based on that.

  11. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ROK
    I see your answer on status. The reason for the question. No system stands alone. When one draws a picture of one thing it’s real relavance is often relative to other options. As there are different ways of measuring and accumulating wealth, the choices are not divorced from context. Eg, much as I would like to accumulate gold, if it is not around I may need to accumulate other things.

  12. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Bimbro
    When people say an answer is obvious but do not state an answer, my skeptical mind says they do not want to be seen to have committed. Why suddendly be coy with your expressed views?

    What is obvious to you may not be obvious to others. So try to answer honestly and clearly. If I conclude with what is obvious to me that is what will bind you.


  13. @ All

    “the british national party” – (please forgive my lack of capitalization) is a fringe, on the farthest margins of British society kinda’ unruly social mob of racists, fascists SCUM* dressed up in cheap suits and fondly (LOL) get to wear egg on their faces from decent Whites folks who do NOT want to return to an era marred by war, death and suffering of antediluvian proportions…”

    Well, well! at least somebody acknowledges at last that there are still some “decent “white” folks around.

    Did you see that post ROKie?

    I copied this from a post by Terence M. Blackett.


  14. LIB

    Nigerian nurses: What is that phrase that you use again? “Follow the ball not the fake” or something similar. The Nigerian nurses were pawns brought in to teach some Bajan nurses that defying the wishes of a certain individual has consequences. First you must know the original country the B’dos Gov’t was negotiating with to recruit nurses, the Nigerians were a fall back option.

    If you don’t know the rules you can’t play the game.


  15. @LIB
    “When one draws a picture of one thing it’s real relavance is often relative to other options.”

    So what are you saying then? You could identify with the 10 cow story?


  16. @Sargeant: “If you don’t know the rules you can’t play the game.

    Exactly!

    And where, exactly, have the rules of the game been published?


  17. @robin hood
    “Did you see that post ROKie?”

    Come on rh, you think I don’t know there are? But that is the exact point, by saying that there are decent whites don’t absolve the perpetrators; nor can that factor be considered in quest for equality. They do join us in the Pan African Movement.

    Ras Ikael Tafari was a white man and one of the leading spokemen for Rastafari for many years. He used to cuss white people worse than you ever see me spout here and he white.

    Ikeal sat me down one day and told me about his pirate ancestors. How many of today’s white men willing to do that? They in denial talking foolishness about they can’t be blamed as soon as you open your mouth. I mean that is the height of arrogance; trying to absolve themselves.

    That is why I say to them, if they were not to take any responsibility then they should give up their wealth and privileges. I sure none of them ain’t going to do that.

    We need to deal with the system… but tell me who blocking change in the system?


  18. C Halsall

    Depends on the game. Let’s assume politics, there are no rules but you need to be unethical; duplicitous and cunning. Those three attributes and a convincing smile will be the keys to your future.

  19. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Sargeant
    Nigerian nurses: I’d just arrived when they were arriving, and I was less focused on local matters. But, what you say leaves me thinking that strategies usually have several options, and therefore, many things could have been in play. There is always the ‘test us if you dare’ approach on both sides, and then it’s who has the best hidden cards. The Nigerians were pawns, clear. But I am not sure about the other players.


  20. LIB, obviously, in that eventuality, I’d want to depart from this country! I’m still unable to c the point ur trying to make!!


  21. LIB, sadly, I witnessed yet another mugging by another goup of your young people virtually outside my front door, this evening, acting more like rats than humans! L, what r we going to do about YOUR people! This, I suggest, is the biggest problem facing our race, today!!


  22. ROK

    Next thing, the use of the term black is definitely not new. Garvey kept using it throughout nearly all his speeches. You note he ended up using the term in “The Black Starline” because at the time there was the white starline and the green starline all belonging to white people; so his aim was to upstaged them with the name Black starline.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I agree the use of the term Black is not new.

    In addition to the Black Star Line he also formed the Black Cross Nurses organised along the lines of the Red Cross.

    I think in his day the term Black was used to refer to skin colour.

    What I think is new is the numerous other ways in which the term Black is interpreted.

    For example, he spoke of the Negro Race and went to Geneva to deliver a petition on behalf of the Negro Race.

    Today it is not uncommon to hear the term Black Race used.

    … and there is nothing wrong in the changing meanings of words.

    It would be impossible for me to list the number of ways that I have seen and heard the word Black used in my life, besides as a colour.

    The English language is afer all a living language.


  23. @Sargeant

    “C Halsall

    Depends on the game. Let’s assume politics, there are no rules but you need to be unethical; duplicitous and cunning. Those three attributes and a convincing smile will be the keys to your future.”

    Bro, that is the imperialist standard of politics and the reality is that it don’t have to be like that.


  24. @ John August 11, 2009 at 9:54 am
    You wrote Quote:
    Yardbroom
    “The use of the term Black coincided with the time when adult suffrage was implemented in Barbados and means different things to different people.”

    You then quoted me:
    “What the politicians did was to “high-light” those differences to their advantage”.

    I am at a lost to understand what you mean. Let us start at the beginning.
    *******************************
    On August 8, 2009 at 1:47pm
    You wrote Quote:
    …”In my way of thinking, ( it can change, and it may by the end of the day), political power was taken by politicians who separated the “Blacks” from the “Whites” …in people’s minds”…

    On August 9, 2009 at 4:44pm
    I responded to the “specific point” you introduced by stating.
    Quote: “John it was not necessary for politicians to “separate” the “Blacks” from the “Whites” in Barbados, it has always been so, and the separation was put in place, administered in Law and maintained by “whites”…and continued in that vein. That is where the separation started and continued, the politicians only high-lighted it , John”.

    You introduced the separation of “Blacks and “Whites in Barbados. I gave a rebuttal pointing out that before the present day politicians “Blacks” and “Whites” had been separated in Barbados by “Whites” and that continued.

    That stage of the debate between us had
    come to an end. I am at a lost to understand in today’s comment what you mean, particularly when it was you who introduced the term “Black” and “White” separation in Barbados. Adult suffrage has no bearing in context to what I have written.

    When you address me please do so on what “I” have written. It is true you are having a debate on the use of the words “Black” and”Negro” but I am not involved, naturally I have my views but they have not been stated.

    Ps: It might have been a slight error I can accept that.


  25. And ur unable to c why the BNP could b so successful here!! U can’t c where the paper-trail points back to! Did n’t think ud b able to!!

    Lord help us!!

  26. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @BIMBRO
    What prompted the question was “LIB, ur Rwandan friend has an in-depth, detailed and practical experience of Africanism, which so many of our countrymen are keen to foist upon us, thus he ran away in order to save his life! “[You talked about “africanism”. I’m not sure what that means other than being African, in language and culture, which is what an African is supposed to be. The point lost me.

    I don’t know or believe that anyone is trying to foist that on anyone in the Caribbean.

    Then you use ‘thus’ (= because of this?). Again, no idea what that means. He left one African country for another African country (not his own).

    We agree: he left to save his life. You would do the same.

    Conclusion: I think what you said does not have meaning.]


  27. Dave, could u commence a Part 2 of this subject please. So many posts taking so long to download!!

    Tanks!! 🙂


  28. @John
    “The use of the term Black coincided with the time when adult suffrage was implemented in Barbados and means different things to different people.”

    I beg to differ. I would argue that before nigger it was Black and probably Negro at the same time. If we agree that the term “nigger” is a corruption of “Negro”, then even in Spanish the word black was first.

    We need to trace some of the epistemology or ontology of these words. Negro sounds rather Latin to me. What is Negra? Is that Spanish?


  29. Submitted on 2009/08/11 at 6:17pm

    Dave, could u commence a Part 2 of this subject please. So many posts taking so long to download!!

    Tanks!! 🙂

    We have taken the advice of the BU family and removed the ratings feature not because we don’t like it but we understand it is affecting the time it takes to load a page.

  30. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Bimbro
    Saw a mugging: Did you try to intervene? Did you call the police? Did you get descriptions? Did you seek to help the victim(s) after? Just trying to get an idea of how people (you, in this case) see their role in changing things.

    Regarding BNP, I suggest you look back at what Terence said (mistakenly, I think, about the 1930s/40s Black Shirts/Mosleyites) and see if racists in the UK take their pick on targets. Don’t dodge.

    Once the offending group is eradicated, who do you think is next on their list?

    I wont say I know Britain better than you but I will challenge your myopia on thinking that only one cherry is on the racist tree.

  31. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    Good decision: Loads in seconds not minutes now. No scrolling.


  32. @John

    How much have you done on Garvey? I would argue that had Garvey not been convicted and all property confiscated, our plight today would have been very different.

    Furthermore, there would have been no Rosa Parks or MLK or even Malcolm X. It is because the struggle went on that even T.H.E.M. and Farrakan gained so much prominence.

    The speed at which Garvey moved, with good soldiers UNIA would have been a powerhouse and Africa would have been the United States of Africa.

    They really could not let that happen.


  33. Quoting Mr ROK: ”We need to trace some of the epistemology or ontology of these words. Negro sounds rather Latin to me. What is Negra? Is that Spanish?

    Quoting Mr ROK: “but I sure you are a Jew … Don’t feel too safe behind your pseudonym because every time you post a message you are traceable down to the street and building you in. I WILL GET YOU.

    Answering Mr ROK: You don’t need to trace either the “epistemology or ontology”. The etymology will do fine. In Spanish, “negro” means “black. “Nigger” is a word used exclusively by the dull. ROK is a comical dickhead who says things like this:

    “I sure you are a Jew … I WILL GET YOU.”

    Best wishes to you, dickhead.


  34. Yardbroom

    On August 9, 2009 at 4:44pm
    I responded to the “specific point” you introduced by stating.
    Quote: “John it was not necessary for politicians to “separate” the “Blacks” from the “Whites” in Barbados, it has always been so, and the separation was put in place, administered in Law and maintained by “whites”…and continued in that vein. That is where the separation started and continued, the politicians only high-lighted it , John”.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am saying is that the meaning of Black in Barbados has changed over time.

    It just so happens that the changes in meaning occurred around the time of Adult Suffrage and that politicians used the changes in meaning and the differences in people’s understanding to their advantage to get elected.

    So I am disagreeing with your point that it is differences which had existed, that politicians took advantage of.

    Rather, I feel it is the changes of meaning and differences in understanding which were exploited.

    That’s why I feel that the “Black” “White” separation that exists in Barbados today is more virtual than real, created in people’s minds by politicians for politicians!!

    Sorry I was not clearer.

    I tried to multitask but the old brain isn’t capable anymore.


  35. @ROK

    Strange as it may seem to you, ROKie,
    I believe you and I may have a lot more in common than you think!

    I have been living here for nearly 50 years and up to now I am yet to fully understand why some Bajans think like “dem mek duhself” especially what you call “white” Bajans!


  36. @David

    Many thanks, Whatever you corrected sure sees to help a great deal.

    Things seem to be running a lot smoother when trying to navigate the site now.


  37. @RH
    “Strange as it may seem to you, ROKie,
    I believe you and I may have a lot more in common than you think!”

    You from Ireland? Well I had a grandmother who had white hair almost like mine. Her skin colour though was nowhere like mine.

    She was the first of three sisters to go. As the other two got older and into their nineties, their hair turned blue. I here hoping that mine don’t turn blue otherwise I gine start cussing my grandfather who was like tar. LOL!

    Well my father used to dye his, which turned white early like me, but I have to wonder if he start dying his because it start to turn blue. LOL! Black man with blue hair. LOL!


  38. @ROK

    Yuh turning comedian now or what? 🙂
    LOL.


  39. @ROK
    Tell me about the Irish connections, ROKie, we might yet establish a common ancestor!


  40. @rh

    I know very little about the Irish connections. I used to run a couple bars on the south coast. One night one of my barmen told me that an Irishman will be the death of me. He was so right because apart from all the Irish connections I made, the manager of the hotel was an Irishman and although my operation had nothing to do with him, we had such a great relationship

    It was from the barman’s comment that I started asking some questions… but a funny thing happened to me in UK. When I first landed in Scotland, I somehow had a deep sense of coming home. That left me bewildered… I kept saying, this is a white man’s land… all white people.

    But that feeling stayed with me all during that visit and every time I have been there since. I have never been to Ireland, but have a few good Irish friends out there.


  41. ROK // August 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

    @John
    “The use of the term Black coincided with the time when adult suffrage was implemented in Barbados and means different things to different people.”

    I beg to differ. I would argue that before nigger it was Black and probably Negro at the same time. If we agree that the term “nigger” is a corruption of “Negro”, then even in Spanish the word black was first.

    We need to trace some of the epistemology or ontology of these words. Negro sounds rather Latin to me. What is Negra? Is that Spanish?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    When I say “the use of the term Black” I really mean to say how it was used colloquially , not that it was not used colloquially prior to Adult Suffrage.

    Sorry, not clear!!

    I am going to have to start writing a response, letting it sit for a while then rereading it before I press submit.

    I am not going to do it this time though so hope I don’t make too many boo boos.

    I once got called a “Red Nigger” by a Rasta because I continued on my way as was my right and did not give way to him. There was plenty of room for both of us.

    I laughed so hard at the appellation that I think he probably thought I was mad and he did not curse me.

    I don’t know who started using the term Nigger and what it originally meant.

    I have heard some people explain that it has nothing to do with colour but a frame of mind. I have heard on TV of the term Whigger being used.

    I do not know if its origins are Spanish but one could speculate it may have something to do with the fact that many slaves came from the Niger Delta.

    It is usually used as a slur and in conversation, …. a word to be avoided.

    I think the use of words 100, 200 or 300 years ago is only possible to fathom by reading the written word of the day.

    I found in most legal documents I have read from the 1600’s, particularly deeds and conveyances that they usually begin with words to the effect “To all Christian people present”.

    When I read Ligon from 1649 or thereabouts, he seems to describe two classes of persons that existed, Christians and Negroes.

    I am leery of historians as they often lapse into commentary and express their opinions which may or may not be true and I know Ligon has some errors, however ….

    …. whenever there is a conveyance of property in slaves, I have found that the slaves are rarely referred to as slaves but usually as Negro Men, Women, Boys or Girls. Sometimes Mulatto will appear instead of Negro.

    Their individual names are invariably listed.

    Ligon’s commentary seems to corroborate how the legal documents are phrased but maybe I have not read enough legal documents from that period.

    I cannot remember seeing the words Black or White mentioned in those early documents, hence a question I asked, “what is the difference between a Negroman and a Blackman?”

    I first see the word White being used in the 1679 census. It is used to distinguish “White Servants and Negroes” as in “A list of ye parrishioners of ye Parrish of St. Luceyes, the number of Acres they possess, white servants, & negroes Taken December ye 30th 1679”

    Like Negroes, white servants were also property and their indenture I believe could be sold. Notice the word slaves was not used.

    The use of white in the 1715 census is different as “Barbadoes. St. Thomas Parish. Number of White inhabitants”.

    Note Parishioners is no longer the word used.

    Free Negro and Free Mulatto (Man or Woman) start appearing in the legal documents possibly late 1600’s early 1700’s (need to check) because these persons now start doing deeds and making wills and as land owners, become bounders when property is described.

    Up to this point, the word Negro or mulatto is invariably used, I can’t remember seeing Black or Coloured.

    I have been at these documents for 15 plus years off and on but I did not start out trying to fathom the use of the words so did not keep records of how the words occurred …. disclaimer!!

    Would not be surprised if the generalisations/commentary I make have exceptions.

    In the 1800’s up to emancipation I start seeing descriptions like “Woman of Colour” but can’t remember seeing it earlier.

    After emancipation it is not possible to detect the colour or status of persons who appear in the legal documents, the most you get are words like spinster, widow, relict etc.

    I have never seen the word Nigger used in any of the documents I have read.

    I see the word Black and Coloured used to describe slaves in the returns of 1817, 1820, 1823, 1826, 1829 and 1832.

    Barbadian and African are also used to indicate I believe whether the slave was born in Barbados or whether Africa.

    About 7% of the 80,000 plus slaves in 1817 were coloured.

    More than 93% of the slaves in 1817 were born in Barbados. Remember the slave trade ended in 1807.

    About 55 % were associated with plantations. This I found surprising but is so simply because the majority of the 6000 slave owners owned only a few slaves.

    There were only 300-400 major plantations of on average 200 acres with an average of 100 to 150 slaves so 5600 to 5700 owners to split the rest.

    I found some slaves listed as African who were also listed as coloured, probably explainable by the fact that Europeans and Africans had been mixing since the 1400’s. Suggests the slavers did not discriminate.

    The status of the owner making the return, if Free Negro or Free Mulatto is usually denoted as FN or FM.

    The 1834 return is quite different.

    For instance, the term Labourer is introduced. This term persists to this day. Worth having a look at the returns.

    Think colour is no longer used but leave it to those interested to look, see and contradict.

    All these returns are available at ancestry.com for those who care to look.

    This is a summary of what I have observed in reading the past years, hope it helps.

    The internet sources are extremely good and getting better and Saunder’s records of most if not all baptisms and marriages up to 1800 have been in digital form for most of the 15 years I have been at it.

    Extracts from some wills are also included with the marriages and baptisms so it is possible to do a lot from the office or home ….

    …. and plenty people doing genealogy are connected on the web.

    Sometimes it is as simple as asking a question.

    Technology is making this kind of research easier and easier.

    It is gaps in records that frustrate, long before the effort of research gets overbearing.

    I have read and reread for obvious errors, no doubt I’ll find some later!!


  42. ROK // August 11, 2009 at 7:43 PM

    @John

    How much have you done on Garvey? I would argue that had Garvey not been convicted and all property confiscated, our plight today would have been very different.

    Furthermore, there would have been no Rosa Parks or MLK or even Malcolm X. It is because the struggle went on that even T.H.E.M. and Farrakan gained so much prominence.

    The speed at which Garvey moved, with good soldiers UNIA would have been a powerhouse and Africa would have been the United States of Africa.

    They really could not let that happen.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I have not done much on Garvey, a bit of reading in the past, and checking the Internet.

    He was an unusual man and ahead of his time.

    However I doubt that he could have effected a united states of Africa.

    Just too much division, people too diverse.

    …. check LIB’s summary on impressions of Africa.

    I would not want to talk about a continent I never visited.

    Had the opportunity to go up Kilimanjaro with some buddies years ago but missed out …. life got in the way.

    That’s the closest I have come to setting foot in Africa.

    Still, a unified Europe supposedly works and that amazes me.

    Talk about a history of division and bloodshed.

    In theory a unified Africa should be possible …… but I am not holding my breath.


  43. Dave, 592 comments plus, this one, make 593! Give us ‘Part 2’, nuh!! 🙂


  44. “I don’t know or believe that anyone is trying to foist that on anyone in the Caribbean.”

    ***********

    LIB, just what do u suppose that LIB and his mates have been going-on about, ‘the lost psyche’, lost somewhere in the atlantic ocean, on the crossing, or during the hundreds’ years of slavery but, lost africanism!! Have u been reading ROK’s book-length answers and not appreciated that, yet!! These guys long for some lost africanism which, as far as I can c, would only take us back to the stone ages, as with much of Africa, these days! In fact, it’s never really left the stone age. Well, actually, they may just have graduated to the bronze age ’cause they still roam about with their cattle, don’t they?!! LIB, in a nutshell, africanism also means, having ur head cut-off because u belong to the wrong tribe and, how big or welcome do u think the west indian tribe, i.e. we, would be, in Africa!! Use ur head, bro!!

    ********

    “I don’t know or believe that anyone is trying to foist that on anyone in the Caribbean.”

    **********

    LIB, try reading ROK, ‘Negroman’ and others, again!! I think ull find they endorse the re-imposition of ‘the lost psyche of africa’!! i.e., slavery, this time, by Africans of the imposition of their putrid ways and habits, on decent West Indians!! ROK’s diatribes could fairly b titled, ‘the fanciful exposition of the lost psyche of africa’!! LOL!! Los? Well tanks god it los, is all i can say an, wiv a bit of luck, may it neva b found again!!

    LOL!!


  45. Hi Dave, thank u. Just seen ur reply y’day pm and thanks for removing the stars! Mind u, I hope u include me in hah term, ‘the BU family’, cause u know u!! An I doan like tuh b on my own!!

    Laaaaadddddddd!!

    But, Dave, u know what we really need is a Part 2 fuh dis ting man!! It still too big!!


  46. Listin, if anybody, an I mean, anybody, fine dah los psyche, please, but please, please, tra it bak in d sea, please bo!! We doan want dah ting tekking us back tuh d stone age, roung hay!!

    Laadddddddddddddddddd!!

    ROK, let it res bro!! Lef it at d bottom uh d ocean way it can do nuh mischief!!

    Laaaaaaaddddddddddd!!


  47. livinginbarbados // August 11, 2009 at 6:54 PM

    @Bimbro
    Saw a mugging: Did you try to intervene? Did you call the police? Did you get descriptions? Did you seek to help the victim(s) after? Just trying to get an idea of how people (you, in this case) see their role in changing things.

    ************

    LIB, guess what, surprise, surprise, I did n’t want to get mugged too! Now, with ur simple frame of mind, I bet that surprised u, did n’t it!! It would n’t surprise anybody else on this blog!! – especially, noting I was n’t Jamaican like them – thank god!! I daily thank the merciful for that good fortune he bestow on me!!

    LIB, please doan talk foolishniss bro!! We’re the latest target, ‘thanks’ to YOUR people and for no other reason!! Please stop making pathetic excuses!! and, to quote U, ‘don’t dodge’!! The least u could do is to apologise to the remainder of the west indian community and to beg our forgiveness, not to mention all the millions of other people in the world who your people have mugged and offeneded in a miriad different ways!!

    **********

    “I wont say I know Britain better than you but I will challenge your myopia on thinking that only one cherry is on the racist tree.”

    *********

    LIB, normally I have a ‘certain amount of respect for ur posts’, even though I don’t usually read them but, that last statement is sheer junk! Guess what, I’M NOT WORRIED ABOUT ANY OTHER CHERRIES ON THE TREE! I’M CONCERNED ABOUT THE REPUTATION OF MY (WEST INDIAN) COMMUNITY AND THE DAMGE BEING DONE TO IT BY YOUR DEMENTED PEOPLE, NOT ANYBODY ELSE!!


  48. @ John

    ” I have not done much on Garvey, a bit of reading in the past, and checking the Internet”.

    Perhaps you could have a read of:

    Negro with a hat.
    The Rise and Fall of Marcus Garvey
    and his Dream of Mother Africa.

    By: Colin Grant
    Published by Jonathan Cape 2008
    ISBN 9780224078689

    A good read, the Bibloigraphy has some merit.

    Ps: Do not feel too bad about not visiting Africa, lots of people do not know that Garvey never “once” set foot on that Great continent.

    Yardbroom


  49. “Bibliography”

  50. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Bimbro
    Simply put, you are concerned about yourself above all else. So, when you see the world and all it’s wrongs, so long as you’re alright Jack (or Bimbro), then that’s fine. Well, of course, if everybody takes that approach the world will not be fine. It’s the fear to confront wrongs that let them continue. It really doesn’t matter how you dress it up, or who is the wrong doer, or who is the inactive person. As I often quote, from Gandhi, “be the change you want to see in the world”. Otherwise, the noise is just that.

    Your answer is very interesting on reflection because it mentions NOT AT ALL the victim(s). It’s OUR world not MINE. As I also often ask, put your self in the victims place and imagine her (for emotional effect) looking up at you, staring down at her getting pummeled, and all you are doing is watching. Nice picture, mate. Really nice. I’m proud of you. I trust it was not a relative.

    There’s no need to qualify a comment with quotation marks unless you want its true effect to be blurred. A certain amount of respect is clear. So too is no respect at all.

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