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reparationsBarbados Underground (BU) is thankful for all the complaining we hear about our blog because it means we have freedom of speech. Thanks to Nancie .J Carmody who made the following quote famous: “I am thankful for all the complaining I hear about our government because it means we have freedom of speech.”

The evergreen race debate like immigration, homosexuality and topics of this tenor which BU is driven to blog about will always evoke passion. It is the nature of the beast. How can we debate the issue of race in a manner which is acceptable given the strong views likely to be provoked? The fact that we have people from different backgrounds whether influenced by race, education, socialization among other factors will make the race dialogue interesting.

BU finds it difficult for a Black person to be accused of being racist. It is our belief the word racist is often used interchangeable for ‘bigot’ or ‘prejudice’ by some. The BU household is always willing to learn from the BU family and welcomes feedback on our position.

We have demonstrated from our inception a strong commitment to freedom of speech. It is the reason why BU was given birth. As the world continues to follow the the furore over a black Harvard professor’s arrest here is what a contrite President Obama had to say “race is still a troubling aspect of our society.” Observers suggest Obama has had to retreat from his earlier condemnation of the Cambridge police officer concerning the stupid act of arresting a man who was understandably upset in the situation he found himself. If he did not USA may have become split down the middle on the matter of race. There was also the incident last month of White and Black groups clashing over how a young Black man was allegedly killed by two White men who had the charges dropped. The most embarrassing report of how race continues to boil in the USA is the portrayal of President Obama as a joker.

There we have it; it is one of the most liberal countries in the world which is often stated to be a melting pot. The issue of race remains topical. How can Barbados be immune from the issues associated with race?

Barbados Underground will not cower when we have to deal with the hard issues. Not too long ago BU was labeled xenophobic when we introduced concerns about the fallout from an open-door  immigration policy. Our concerns have now taken on a national, regional and global cry.

Black people were used as slaves by countries termed ‘developed’ to build out successful economies. In stark contrast most Black governed countries survive in a global realm which makes it difficult to achieve economic prosperity as a result of the geopolitical gymnastics at play.

How can it be changed? Will it ever be changed? Change is usually achieved through advocacy. History places Blacks at a disadvantage because of elaborate systems which have been created. It will take a long time for Blacks to penetrate the existing structures. In the meantime the 300 year plus emotional scares can only be soothed with verbal and monetary redress.


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641 responses to “The Race Card”


  1. @robin hood: “Would you care to expand on this theory?

    Have you read Machiavelli’s “The Prince”? Right???

    It is standard reading material for all business students. Politicians. Et al.

    In a nutshell… Written in the 16th century by an advisor to a Prince, this body of work cut (deeply) to the chase of the fundamentals of human nature.

    What it points out is if you (or anyone_ can cause others to fight on your (or their) behalf (or between themselves), you (they) are likely to gain.

    But please don’t take my word for it. Read it for yourself.


  2. ROK

    You actually believe that 10 cow/11 cow BS?

    You must think that the people of Rwanda are very inferior human beings to get taken in by that.

    How many people from Rwanda do you actually know?


  3. If I take what Techician says about Rwanda it goes nowhere toward to the other cases.

    @LIB…… at the end of the post, there are references….it was not an original piece from me, though chances are, it would read the same ;-).

  4. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Technician
    Thanks. I know the written story on Rwanda, and have some of it first hand too. The others are not at all the same. But wouldn’t that be a bother.

    But as John intimates (@9.33pm), some have no problem making comments but don’t like to go to do their homework. What did my teacher say about that again?


  5. ROK

    Google the two words ,Black Negro, and you will find out why Marcus Garvey used the term Negro in 1914.


  6. @livivinginbarbados

    @ Livingibarbados

    You talk too much. On the internet, in the real word, you talk too much. You are not sufficiently interesting to talk as much as you talk. Your opinions, in the real world or on the internet, are witless and dull.

    You talk (fantastically boringly) too much and you listen too little.

    You should learn to listen.

    Hope this helps.


  7. @ John….

    ……How many people from Rwanda do you actually know?

    How many do YOU know?!?

    You actually believe that 10 cow/11 cow BS………

    Refute the post with your evidence if you can please.
    FYI…it goes even sillier than this, the Belgians even tried the straight nose and broad nose division too.
    You see, this is the same mentality that has the black man thinking the white man is his savior.

    You must think that the people of Rwanda are very inferior human beings to get taken in by that.

    No John…..it was not ROK who thought this ……..it was the Belgians!!


  8. ROK

    You see, this is the same mentality that has the black man thinking the white man is his savior.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Are you trying to tell me that you think the “black” man is in some way inferior to the “white” man”?

    I googled 10 cow before I commented and got a story about a 10 cow wife from Readers Digest which I enjoyed as much as when I read it 20 years ago.

    This is the closest I could get with google to a story that would be able to support your position which seems to be that somehow some people can get other people to believe or disbelieve in themselves …. which I know is possible.

    The story I reckon is made up to show people how a noble action from an individual can change the life of someone.

    I have never met anyone from Rwanda but all of the people I have met from Nigeria, Zambia, South Africa, Kenya etc. are not in anyway foolish or inferior and would never get taken in by the 10 cow/11 cow foolishness.

    I rate two of them among some of the wisest persons I have ever met.

    I take it you have never met anyone from Rwanda either.


  9. @John
    You need to tell me why you think Garvey would have used the word Negro.

    Having goggled as you said, I have not seen anything new and still hold my opinion.


  10. Ok ROK, thanks for the reply and keep practising the singing!! V. funny!! lol!!

    LIB, I’m, not interested in doing anything! Jamaica is n’t MY country! However, given all the woffling u do on here, I thought u might have something more informative and generally educative to say about the future of ur own country or, r u so deliriously happy living in Bim you’ve forgotten that ur really Jamaican!!

  11. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ROK
    “That is a preposterous assumption. To marry one of my own is to define others as not worthy and my own superior?”[Yes. You chose one ABOVE all others. Ergo…] Does that mean that all the black women I have not chosen are also inferior? [Yes. You stayed with a system (eg white people’s Christianity]that left you to choose one, when other systems (eg Islam or even Mormonism–though white people’s) let you have MORE.] You really clutching at straws. [Not at all. Who made you stay with a social system which would not let you maximize you choices?]

  12. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ROK
    “No you see how you trying to twist what I said. Where did I say that? Wonder who is the illiterate here, or is it that you trying to play illiterate?”[You asked a question, but you have the answer.]

    “For clarification I have been saying that the high incidences of black on black violence is evidence of misdirected minds; arising as a result of the damage done by slavery and its later institutionalisation of a system inflated with discrimination and deprivation to support the idea that the black man is inferior.”[Isn’t ‘…damage done by slavery and its later institutionalisation of a system inflated with discrimination and deprivationt to support the idea that the black man is inferior…” equivalent to “abuse by white people”? 10/10 marks for the right answer, which would give literacy and maths scores a boost.]

  13. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @LIB
    Don’t listen to Jack Bowman. I need to hear me more. I’ve not heard me on the radio in weeks. Maybe I was listening too much…and listen to what I hear
    “Fuh some reason dis ole song return to me dis morning!!…‘Out me, outa me, yuh in gun c Bellplaine out me’!!” Sweet music for edumacated people…]

    Is something happening?


  14. SOME AMAZING FACTS ABOUT BLACK FOLKS…

    The word, “coffee,” comes from Caffa, Ethiopia, where it was first used and where it still grows wild.

    George Washington sent a ‘Negro’ slave to BARBADOS* to be exchanged for a hogshead of molasses, a cask of rum and ‘other good old spirits,’ in 1776.

    Beethoven, the world’s ‘greatest’ musician, was without a doubt a dark ‘mulatto.’ He was called “The Black Spaniard.” His teacher, the immortal Joseph Haydn, who wrote the music for the former Austrian National Anthem, was ‘colored,’ too.

    The Ganges, the sacred river of India, is named after an Ethiopian king of that name who conquers Asia…

    The use of the terms ‘Negro,’ Colored’ and ‘Mulatto’ were commonly used at the time of this work’s compilation by J.A. Rogers 1957.

    (As of 1930) the WHITE* population of New York (was) a third more illiterate than the ‘Negro’ one.

    PROOF:-

    In New York there (were) 375,999 illiterates in the WHITE* population of 10,513,933 or 3.6%. ‘Negro’ illiterates (were) 8,604 in a population of 347,381 or 2.5 % (1930 Census, Vol. II, p. 1229).

    COMMENT: I wonder what the stats look like today. (The subject of some research work I am currently undertaking).

    In the United States Army Intelligence tests during World War I, the ‘Negroes’ of Pennsylvania, New York, Illinois and Ohio led the whites of Mississippi, Kentucky, Arkansas and Georgia by from one to seven percent.

    PROOF:-

    See the American Journal of Sociology, Vol. 33, p.256 (Sept.,1927).

    Estevanico, a ‘Negro’ from Morocco, was one of a party of four to cross the North American continent in 1536 for the first time. The journey took nine years. In 1539 he headed an expedition that discovered Arizona and New Mexico. Estevanico’s travels served to open up the Southwest and the States west of Florida, as far as the Pacific.

    PROOF:-

    J.K. Hosmer says of the first journey made across the American continent by civilized men, ” Of these, three were Spaniards, and the fourth, a person upon whom it is worth while to dwell for a moment. He was a Negro, the first of his race to reach the valley, contemporary with the earliest Europeans.” Of Estevanico’s expedition to Arizona and New Mexico, he says, “Fray Marcos sent the Negro forward as better fitted than anyone to prepare the way.” (A Short History of the Mississippi Valley, pp. 25-27, Boston, 1901.)

    For the account of the actual journey, see: Narrative of Nunez Cabeca de Vaca, N.Y. 1922. Also, J.E. Bolton: Chronicles of America, Vol. 23.

    Imhotep of Ancient Egypt, was the real Father of Medicine. He lived about 2300 b.c. Greece and Rome had their knowledge of medicine from him. In Rome he was worshiped as the Prince of Peace in the form of a BLACK* man. His Ethiopian portraits show him a ‘Negro.’ Imhotep was also Prime Minister to King Zoser as well as the foremost architect of his time. The saying, “Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die,” has been traced to him. Hippocrates, the so-called “Father of Medicine,” lived 2,000 years after Imhotep.

    PROOF:-

    Gerald Massey says of Imhotep, “The child-Christ remained a starrily bejeweled Blackamoor* as the typical healer in Rome. Jesus the Divine Healer, does not retain the black complexion of Iu-em-hotep (Imhotep) in the canonical Gospels, but he does in the Church of Rome when represented as a little Black Bambino.” …(I cut a major portion out here for brevity)…

    (Continuing…)

    “Surely the profoundest sigh of an ever-warring world went up to heaven in the cult of Iu-em-hotep (Imhotep) who was worshiped as the giver of rest, the Kamite prince of peace.” (Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World, Vol. II, p. 754, London, 1907.)

    The statuettes of Imhotep in the Cairo Museum show his Negroid features. They are reproduced in G. Daressy’s, Catalogue General des Antiquities Egyptiennes du Musee du Caire, Plate IV, 38,045 to 38,050, and Plate V.

    COMMENT:-

    Speaking of Christ having been BLACK*, it was surprising to me how many white Spaniards in the Barcelona area of Spain INSIST* that Christ was BLACK*.

    During a visit there in 1982, I went to Montsarrat, a monastery just outside of Barcelona, where the Madonna and Christ child are depicted as ‘coal’ BLACK*.

    White American slave-holders used to induce white women to marry ‘Negro’ slaves in order to hold the women slaves for life.

    PROOF:

    In Sept. 1664, Maryland passed a law that any white woman who married a ‘Negro’ should serve the master of such slave “for life.” Slave-holders took advantage of this law to induce the WHITE* women, some of whom were recent arrivals, to marry the “Negroes.” MacCormac says, “Instead of preventing such marriages this law enabled avaricious and unprincipled masters to convert many of their (WHITE*) servants into slaves.” In 1681, the Legislature was forced to issue the following law: “Divers freeborn English or white women sometimes by the instigation, procurement, and connivance of their master…. and always to the satisfaction of their lascivious and lustful desires….do intermarry with ‘Negroes’ and other slaves, be it enacted that if any master….having any freeborn English or white woman servant in their possession or property, shall by any instigation, procurement, knowledge, permission or contrivance,” cause her to marry a slave she should be free at once and the master should pay a fine of “10,000 lbs. of tobacco.” (Archives of Maryland, Vol. I, pp. 433-34; and Vol. III, pp. 203-04, also Johns Hopkins University Studies in Hist. & Pol. Science, No. 3 & 4.) …

    What is true of Maryland was true of other states!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dr. Daniel Williams, BLACK* Chicago surgeon who died in 1931, was the first to perform a successful operation on the human heart.

    PROOF:-

    Medical Record, March 27, 1897. The patient was James Cornish. Dr. Williams lived in Chicago.

    Eugene Chen, one of the most dynamic political figures of the present century, and Minister of Foreign Affairs for China in 1927, was born of Chinese-‘Negro’ parentage in TRINIDAD*, West Indies, in 1878. He was also secretary to Dr. Sun Yat Sen, First President of China.

    PROOF: –

    Vincent Sheean says in part of Eugene Chen, “The Foreign Minister was a remarkable man…. Physically and in some ways of speech, Mr. Chen reminded me of the French politician, Malvy; his complacency was like that of Austen Chamberlain; his delight in his own language and the care that he took to see that it was written down in its baroque magnificence suggested Mussolini. He was theatrical as Briand without any of the old fox’s charm; he was (as) ingratiating as Streseman, as bitter as Poincare. In short Mr. Chen was a politician…. Mr. Chen had been born a British subject at TRINIDAD*, West Indies. His name as a British subject was not Chen. He was of mixed race, part Chinese, part ‘Negro’…. He had chosen his wife from the ‘Negro’ race, and in his four charming children the Chinese strain seemed almost to have vanished.” Personal History, pp. 205-07, N. Y., 1935. John Gunther, “Inside Asia,” pp. 259-60, 264,269, New York, 1939. (Chen’s real name was Akam).

    General A. Dodds, a Senegalese, was France’s best known soldier, prior to the First World War. In 1901, as the Senior General he commanded for a brief time the Allied Army – white Americans, Germans, British, French, and Japanese – against the Boxers in China. The Germans, unable to tolerate that, hurriedly sent out a field-marshal.

    PROOF:

    General A.A. Dodds, conqueror of Dahomey, and France’s greatest colonial soldier, was born in St. Louis, Senegal, West Africa, of ‘mulatto’ parentage on both sides of his family. In color he was very dark. The New York Tribune, April 17, 1910, said that he was so popular that he could easily have seized the power in France as “the entire nation irrespective of party or politics turned out to welcome him and to such an extent did he become an object of popular enthusiasm that there is no doubt that he might easily have established himself in the role of military dictator had it not been for his loyalty to the republic,” yet it adds, he “would not have been permitted to drink at the same bar with a white man (in America) and in many states of the Union would not be permitted to ride in the same street car.” Gen. Dodds was a Grand Officer of the Legion of Honor, the highest possible grade in that order. He died in 1922. See F. Desplantes: Le General Dodds; Larousse Mensuel, Oct. 1922; and the works on the conquest of Dahomey.

    In 1787 while a party of 351 freed ‘Negroes’ was aboard ship at Portsmouth England, enroute to Sierra Leone, West Africa, the authorities brought on board sixty-two white women, prostitutes and others, whom they wished to get rid of, and married them to as many men, and sent them off to be the future mothers of the colony.

    PROOF:-

    Utting says: “They sailed in 1787 from Portsmouth with 60 white women whom the Government wished to exile; the latter were made drunk, carried on board, and married to the ‘Negroes’ without their consent being asked.” (F.A.J. Utting: Sierra Leone, p. 81, London, 1931).

    Mrs. A. M. Falconbridge, who talked with these women in Sierra Leone says that they “were mostly of that description of persons who walked the streets of London and supported themselves by the earning of prostitution; that men were employed to collect and conduct them to Wapping where they were intoxicated with liquor, then inveigled on board a ship and married to Black men whom they had never seen before.” (Voyages to Sierra Leone in 1791-2-3, pp. 64-66).

    Psalms that read like those of the Bible were written by a Pharaoh, Amenophis IV, better known as “Akhenaton, the “Heretic King,” 1300 B.C.or more than 400 years before David was born. Akhenaton, who was the father of Tut-Ankh-Amen, was extremely ‘Negro’ in type. He is called “the most remarkable of the Pharaohs.”

    PROOF:-

    For a comparison of one of the Psalms of Akhenaton with the 104th Psalm in the Bible see Arthur Weigall: LIFE AND TIMES OF AKHENATON, pp. 134-136. New York, 1923. Also J.H. Breasted HISTORY OF EGYPT, p. 373. New York, 1926.

    On November 15, 218 B.C., Hannibal, a full-blooded ‘Negro,’ marching through conquered territory in Spain and France, performed the astounding feat of crossing the Alps. With only 26,000 of his original force of 82,000 men remaining, he defeated Rome, the mightiest military power of that age, (and you want to tell me that Black people do not possess the power of the God) who had a million men, in every battle for the next fifteen years. Hannibal is the father of military strategy. His tactics are still taught in the leading military academies of the United States, England, France, Germany and other lands.

    PROOF:-

    Hannibal is usually depicted as a white man, but his coins in the British Museum and the Museo Kercheriano, Rome, show him to have been an African of purest type with rings in his ears. Col. Hennebert, perhaps the leading authority on Hannibal, declares that none of the several differing portraits now exhibited as Hannibal is he, “We do not possess any authentic portrait of Hannibal,” he says. (Histoire d’Annibal, Vol. I, p. 495, Paris, 1870). These coins were struck by Hannibal while he was in Italy. In the absence of other information the most logical argument is that they bore his own effigy, the more so, as the several kinds of them bear the same likeness. Above all, let us remember that he was an AFRICAN*.

    Any questions boys and girls?


  15. @ John ….

    I think it was me and not ROK you should be referring to.

    If you think it is so ridiculous for The Rwandans to be taken so easily back then, then, how come in 2009, we have a man wanting to pay similarly for Chelsea Clinton?

    If you consider inflation and such, wouldn’t his offer to Chelsea be around the same as the Rwandans had in their deals?

    Rather than using Google , try reference links provided.


  16. Terence, uve out-performed LIB vis wordcount!! ‘Well cone’!!

    Lord!!


  17. Technician // August 11, 2009 at 7:58 AM

    Rate This

    @ John ….

    I think it was me and not ROK you should be referring to.

    If you think it is so ridiculous for The Rwandans to be taken so easily back then, then, how come in 2009, we have a man wanting to pay similarly for Chelsea Clinton?

    If you consider inflation and such, wouldn’t his offer to Chelsea be around the same as the Rwandans had in their deals?

    Rather than using Google , try reference links provided.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I did try the CIA fact book link.

    The offer to Bill Clinton was made in the year 2000, nine years ago.

    How many men even ask their future wife’s parents for their blessing and permission to marry their daughter, far less offering a dowry?

    How many women get to have such attention and respect paid to them at the time a man seeks their hand in marriage?

    You need to read the story of the 10 cow wife.

    It kind of varies sometimes. I have a feeling it is made up.

    Sometimes it is only 8 cows, not 10 cows so at the end of the story the punch line is “… but I wanted a 8/10 cow wife”.

    But the meaning is the same, … there is no loss for inflation.

    Some peoples have customs at which we may laugh but when you sit and think about them they can make perfect sense and all parties are honourably treated.

    … I’ll check the other link you gave. Sorry I gave up after the CIA link which just seemed chock full of statistics.


  18. … and now I have tried the gov. ink …. couldn’t find anything about the 10 cow/11 cow tribe.

    Could you point me to the parts where the responsibility is attributed to Belgians?


  19. Bimbro // August 10, 2009 at 6:04 PM

    1 Votes

    LIB, thank u for the link to the Gleaner story. U may be interested to know I’ve just watched a prog which stated that many (possibly, even a majority) of Jamaicans, now wish they’d never obtained indepence from Britain as they’re unable to see that the country has made any progress in the past 50+ years, and would be in favour of asking the Brits to take them back as a colony again! I make no comment and leave that to you!!
    ++++++++++++++++++

    … I heard something like this about Jamaica a couple of years ago and did not believe it.

    However, if it is true it is just a reflection of the divide and rule policies of the Government ……. and I believe that as I remember reputable news sources …… and even politicians from Jamaica …… acknowledged that the gun violence was politically motivated with one party actually supplying the weapons.


  20. Terrence M. Blackett

    PROOF:

    In Sept. 1664, Maryland passed a law that any white woman who married a ‘Negro’ should serve the master of such slave “for life.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    Suppose the Negro was a not a slave? …. which master would his “white” wife then serve?

    How exactly are you using the word Negro?

    ROK

    Notice what Terrence M. Blackett has to say:

    “The use of the terms ‘Negro,’ Colored’ and ‘Mulatto’ were commonly used at the time of this work’s compilation by J.A. Rogers 1957.”

    The use of the term Black is relatively recent and seems to mean different things to different people.

    Yardbroom

    The use of the term Black coincided with the time when Adult Suffrage was implemented in Barbados and means different things to different people.

    “What the politicians did was to “high-light” those differences to their advantage”.


  21. @Technician

    When you consider that right through the white system, status was determined by a man’s wealth, why is it so difficult to believe the 10 cow story? In Barbados for instance voting and certain other liberties in law, was determined by the fact of land and chattel ownership.

    Further, this status was socially recognised. So a man who can vote had a different status to one that did not. We also had designations that identified men with and without property; Free mulatto, free negro, Land owner, a gentleman, a sire, etc. and the status of a man usually accompanied his name.

    Now it is not a question of wanting to believe the story, I am interested in getting at the truth. I am still betting that some sedge was driven between one peoples to separate them into two.

    Just like we here. There are some who prefer to have white friends who scorn and despise black though they are black. They see themselves as better than other blacks. In different circumstances, this split could very well have escalated in the massacre of the house niggers.

    One thing for sure, the subtle strategies such as the ten cow arrangement, may very well have not been openly recorded since this seemed to be a social construct rather than a legal provision.

    I leave that to the historians. I wonder if TM Blackette can shed any light.


  22. @ John….

    …….Could you point me to the parts where the responsibility is attributed to Belgians?

    It is in the preceding post, not the links….for your benefit John…..’Belgium ruled Rwanda up to the early 1960s. The Belgium rule tried to establish an ethnic stereotype between the Hutu and Tutsi;

    Also…..
    ‘The Europeans, mostly Belgian influence in Rwanda created enemies of long time ethnic tribes that have lived peacefully for many years with each other.

  23. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    I don’t know how many of the commentators here have visited or lived in any African countries. I have done both over a 20 year period. The continent is huge and has a history and cultural differences that are so extensive and varied that to try to capture it with a few BOOKS is really very hard.

    Much of what I have read above does not bear comparison to realities in the continent–each part is very different, east, west, north, south–and they often do not have many points of interconnection directly or through time. On the one hand you have countries like Ethiopia that have never been subjugated and have historical connection to the continent and many parts of the modern world. At another extreme, you have countries/peoples who have been in subjugation of one form or another for centuries, and often not at the hands of Europeans or peoples from outside the continent.

    If you would like some first hand explanation of Rwandan culture, including the genocide I can put you in touch with a Rwandese friend now living/working in Mali–another pillar of African culture and history. He may give his first hand accounts of the murder of his four children and his needing to flee north to make a new life in Uganda. He may also share how he and his country are trying to rebuild themselves after the horrors of the genocide and the deep distrust that it sowed. Maybe he is wrong but he does not see his problems and his tragedies as one to lay at the feet of any white man or woman. He looks directly at his black neighbours who killed his children. No need to go further.

  24. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @ROK
    “When you consider that right through the white system, status was determined by a man’s wealth, …”[In non-white systems how was status determined? What were the measures of wealth used and exchangeable?]


  25. @LIB

    Why don’t you ask your African brethren to bring their experience here.

  26. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    “Why don’t you ask your African brethren to bring their experience here.”[You know I look carefully how words are used. They are OUR African brethren, in many respects, not MINE alone. ‘Disassociation ‘is a topic I am looking into. I can point some of my friends to this site. With due respect to them and time differences etc., they have jobs. The one I referenced is UNICEF representative in Bamako and his email address is publicly available. You can freely contact him and reference me by name. It would be better to ask him specific questions, rather than expect him to engage in general chit chat. I don’t know the details of the UNICEF program in Mali, but he may be on the road a lot.]


  27. Technician funny enough when I read what John was saying I was thinking about that very same incident you mentioned! Ha ha ha lol!

    Very good!


  28. Now that would be interesting David.


  29. @LIB

    We would have thought given your announced relationship with the gentleman you facilitating BU’s request would have been better received. Any thanks for your offer anyway.

  30. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    I always encourage direct approaches over indirect ones; we’ve been here before. I open the door for you, and you can take the steps you want to. You know what you want to know. If you want I will write to him copied to you and ask that he reply to us both.

    If you have a general reluctance to be direct it will also be a hinderance. You dont need facilitators to approach people who are in public life. I’ve said the same on the topic of ‘parsing’ the words of Sir. S.


  31. Don’t agree. Public life or not relationships matter.

  32. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    Of course relationships matter: we are not machines. But I am urging you to move away from a world where you do not move because you have no established relationship–that’s a feature of the Caribbean (and Africa, too,and many places) and it’s a brake. That’s why I feel less reticence to approach people I do not know and make my own introductions and proceed from there. Need to move away from this ‘minders’ and ‘handlers’ and ‘gatekeepers’. Economists fear it because it creates ‘rent’ (ie opens up the spectre of influence peddling). Just read some columns more closely and you will understand how it’s rife.

    Anyway, I sent the message from my personal account and you should have received your copy. His name is Marcel Rudasingwa.

    Got to deal with matters financial now.

  33. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    What I would suggest, if you are serious, and Marcel is willing, is to get a series of specific points that he can address, and then send those (they could be yours alone or from others). But do not think that the head of an organization like UNICEF is going to drop getting aid to children to answer a bunch of questions, no matter how important or relevant you think they are.

    From what I know of Marcel, he should be more than willing. He’s a good teacher and he is well travelled (he and his family–2 new children and original wife–also living as migrants in Denmark and a bit in the US), so he can deal with race/racism on different levels.


  34. John, don’t tell LIB but r u characterising Jamaica and Jamaicans as a ‘failed-state’!! Sounds that way to me and, I should b reluctant to disagree with u, however, Sir LIB, might have another view, or, for once, may have seen the light!!

  35. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    One point, that straddles relationships and public life. I have made my suggestions in the past about how to deal with Sir S., whom I do not know, but to whom an introduction has been offered. I have declined, and I dont mind saying that is simply because I do not want to be associated with the brouhaha over his reported statements. People are too quick to put two birds together and make a flock. But I want to take up the offer, sometime soon.

    On his words. I have read a lot on commentary on it. My view on ‘intimations’ starts from my understanding of the core verb, to intimate (see Websters, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intimate). From that basis, I look at what the Nation reported and what the PM has since stated. I also try to understand how a policy that is DELIBERATELY RESTRICTED to a group of people does not tend to target certain ethnicities, given what we know or casually observe. I then also go to the few pieces of information put out to the public by the government. Those pieces of information do not focus on ethnicities but on countries of origin. (Had it covered just the Chinese we would have had the government fixed with no room for wiggling. But some could point to what happened to the Nigerian nurses and put that with an adverse ministerial comment that preceded it and that could still come out as a very embarrassing episode.) It is at that point that I would have reservations. It is harder to prove that ethnicties are being targeted but very easy to see that nationals of various sorts are being targeted.

    One of my contentions has been that by being selective the government opened a door to certain criticism that would not have been there had the policy been general. The merits of selectivity may be moot; that opens loop holes, so why do that?

    So, let the chips fall where they will. Before I hope, but for sure by when the 6 months amnesty is over and we get the first full accounts, we may be able to see that in fact its focus has had certain clear effects on known ethnicities. Then the words will be clearly understood and proved right or wrong.


  36. Sir ‘big brains’ LIB, who’s been everywhere, seen everything, met everybody of note and done everything!! Life must be quite boring for u now, LIB, even in paradisical-Bim!!

    L, this reminds me that, when I was a youngster I’d sometimes purchase some Jazz records, but because they were n’t the then customary Blue-Beat or reggae, my ‘your fellow countrymen mates’, would refer to me as ‘brains’, which I was but did n’t lke to boast!! However, now uv inherited the mantle so wear it well, rasta!!

    Lord!!


  37. @LIB

    How has the government been selective in its new immigration policy?

  38. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    BIMBRO,
    I did not yet see the relevant comment from John, but I would not have a problem with Jamaica being called a failed state. There was a thread on this recently, and you can refresh you memory on what it discussed. The latest index is clear in its rankings, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index.
    Review it carefully, or casually, but remember that the lower the number the higher the failure.

    I have concerns about what the index shows in general and its limitations when looked at in isolation, but that I have already discussed.

    But, there is a big difference between a statement that one can back and an some general opinion that is thrown out and then dodged as people as for substantiation.


  39. LIB, ur Rwandan friend has an in-depth, detailed and practical experience of Africanism, which so many of our countrymen are keen to foist upon us, thus he ran away in order to save his life! That sounds a good reason to me, to rejet africanism completely, out of hand, I think most (sensible) people would agree!! We don’t need a repeat performance!!

  40. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    The amnesty for illegals only applies to Caricom non-nationals (and only a subset of those). Many others have gone to this point earlier in the public discussion. It does not mean that the policy is missing a problem, but general policies are easier to apply.

    One last comment. When children keep sticking their fingers in the icing, the cake soon looks spoiled.

    Got a meeting to attend.


  41. I believe that even ur african friend would agree with me!!

  42. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Bimbro,
    I dont know if you went to school and if so how you used your time there. I dont know either who you think you should blame or applaud for the outcome. But never let another man’s or woman’s knowledge become your burden. The race is never over. My Dad is 80 and he still tries to learn something new each day–even after a stroke.

    Think about what you would do if the BNP decide that it was going to kill all the black people in England–call it ethnic cleansing if you like. Be honest, now. Would you stay or would you leave?


  43. L, congratulations on agreeing that JA’s a failed-state! There may be hope for u yet, not the country but u, the individual!! Welcome to Barbados, the land of hope, pride and glory but not boastfulness!! 🙂


  44. OK LIB, mek me hask u in short, simple languige!! What significant suggestions would u make for dealing with Jamaica’s problems!!


  45. LIB

    But some could point to what happened to the Nigerian nurses and put that with an adverse ministerial comment that preceded it and that could still come out as a very embarrassing episode
    ************************************
    Funny you should write that, in all the columns and hot air that has been expelled since the PM’s announcement I have not seen heard a single mention of the Nigerian nurses. Apparently their ethnicity didn’t matter I suppose that only certain ethnics matter to Sir S.

    The Nigerian nurses didn’t deserve the hand that was dealt to them but I lay that debacle squarely on the shoulders of the former Gov’t. There is more than the pestle in the mortar, the true story of the Arthur’s Gov’t handling of the recruiting of those nurses will come out one day….. and it will not be pretty.


  46. “Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph”. – Haile Selassie

    Haile Selassie (the 25 grandson of King SOLOMON) had been reading Sir Edmund Burke – “for all it takes for EVIL* to prosper is for good men to do nothing”…

    The book MAAFA: AFRICAN HOLOCAUST – draws some daring parallels between “The White European Slave Trade and the ARAB* Slave trade.

    Shahadah suggests that while “Europeans targeted men in West Africa, the “ARAB” trade primarily harvested the women of East Africa to serve as domestic slaves, wet nannies and sex-slaves in their infamous harems.

    This trade trickled over millennia is estimated to have taken 10 million Africans (this constitutes a holocaust) via the Eastern route to India, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, and also via the Trans-Saharan route to North Africa and the Mediterranean, where in slave markets such as Ceuta, Morocco, Africans were purchased to work as servants in Spain, Portugal, and other European countries.

    http://www.africanholocaust.net/news_ah/arabslavetrade.htm

    The most expensive enslaved group in Arabian societies were the eunuchs who were castrated men drawn from Darfur, Abyssinia, Korodofan and other African nations.

    Ironically because of their lack of sexual function they obtained great privileges while the women’s privileges were due to their sexuality.

    Eunuchs were generally made by Coptic priest (hence the story of the Ethiopian eunuch Treasurer under Queen Bernice in the Biblical account in Acts 8:26-40) in Egypt but also a group of Arabs know as the Chamba.

    Young boys, victims from raids and wars were subjected to the most horrid, monstrously unspeakable, inhumane process of castration without anesthesia which had a 60% mortality.

    To stop the bleeding hot coals were placed into the naked wound, which was followed by the most blood curdling, alien scream a human could make.

    The price for surviving this ungodly brutal act was a life of influence and luxury; silk garments, Arabian thoroughbreds and jewels were bestowed on them to reflect the wealth of their masters.

    Strangely eunuchs were both distinguished and greatly revered as elites in Arab society, despite being enslaved.

    Clearly “slave” did not mean downtrodden and oppressed. The actual word slave was far from taboo as the most pious people were self-professed “slaves of Allah.”

    The Arab trade in enslaved Africans was not only conducted by Asiatic and Caucasian Arabs, but also African Arabs: Africans speaking Arabic as a first language embracing an Arab culture.

    These Africans would have been part of the Arab society; they would have permanently resided within Arabia for generations.

    They would have seen themselves as Arab as African-Americans define themselves as American it was their nationality and did not conflict with their greater African identity.

    Via miscegenation children of Arab and African unions were racially Arab and evidence of this even exist today:- Prince Bandar bin Sultan (Saudi Ambassador to the UN) and Anwar Sadat (assassinated Egyptian leader).

    The word for slave (Abid) became the colloq. word for African.

    Other words such as Haratin speak to the social inferior class of Africans.

    Also Caucasoid Arab scholarship has its collection of RACISTS* such as Hanns Vischer who believed African “Black” skin made them a slave-race.

    But equal evidence exists of the contempt for the trade as evident in the writings of Al-Nasiri.

    Books such as Tanwir al-Gabbash fi fasl al al-Sudan wa al-Habash by Ibn al-Jawzi, and Black and their Superiority over Whites by Ibn al-Marzuban testify to this.

    So, the legacy of the African presents in these Arab and later Turkish lands were far from that of absolute subjugation.

    Africans occupied senior military ranks; they administer provinces and managed the scared Mosque of Mecca for centuries starting with BILAL* – personal friend & confidante of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Muzzin of the Mosque from which Blacks are still calling men to pray.

    In the mid-eleventh century, the African caliph Al-Mustansir ruled Egypt with his mother, a Sudanese enslaved woman of remarkable strength of character.

    There are no such parallels in the so-called “New World”. Africans, even enslaved Africans, played important roles in the history and politics of these regions up until and even including the 1st World War.

    Overzealous Europeans have always over-documented the Arab trade in enslaved Africans to alleviate their guilt concerning their own trade. “Well the Arabs did it too” became the common tone of contemporary historians.

    Sadly, many African-American historians and others who have only these European sources to infer history from have taken these second-hand guilt-massaging accounts as “gospel”.

    However, it is a well-known fact that Europeans in their artistic depictions of slave raids have always intentionally portrayed slave raiders as Muslim Africans or Arabs.

    During the 18th century, the Arab slave trade took a rather brutal turn.

    The Portuguese had destroyed the Swahili coast and Zanzibar emerged as the hub of wealth for the Arabian state of Muscat.

    By 1839, slaving became the prime Arab enterprise.

    The demand for slaves in Arabia, Egypt, Persia and India, but more notability by the Portuguese who occupied Mozambique created a wave of destruction on Eastern Africa. 45,000 slaves were passing through Zanzibar every year.

    Thus in the name of humanity Europeans, namely the British and the Belgians, conquered Africa to destroy Arab slaving.

    For Africans one horror was traded for the horror that would deliver the final mortal blow-

    Colonialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Africa and its Diaspora has NOT recovered, healed or been delivered from the “demons” perpetrated against a nation of peoples – though many would agree that the “curse” has been lifted and it’s only a matter of time before our peoples SHALL rise from the ashes of ruinous primordiality and the embers of esoteric extinction.

    We MUST never give up on that dream…


  47. @John

    Actually, Garvey had a little battle in his mind as to whether to use black or negro. Garvey considered that the use of the term nigger was a corruption of the word Negro and Garvey insisted on the use of the term Negro.

    Here is an excerpt of one of Garvey’s speeches about this.”

    “…Many men and women as black as I am and even moreso, had believed themselves white under the West Indian order of society. I was simply an impossible man to use openly the term Negro, yet everyone that meet with us was calling the black man a nigger. I had to decide whether to please my friends and be one of the black whites of Jamaica and be reasonably prosperous or come out openly and help improve and protect the integrity of the black millions, and suffer. I decided to do the latter…”

    While this piece does not confirm the detail, it is evident that his choice of the word Negro was an attempt to get rid of the derogatory term, “Nigger”. I therefore stick to my opinion based on this speech.

    Next thing, the use of the term black is definitely not new. Garvey kept using it throughout nearly all his speeches. You note he ended up using the term in “The Black Starline” because at the time there was the white starline and the green starline all belonging to white people; so his aim was to upstaged them with the name Black starline.


  48. @LIB
    “Maybe he is wrong but he does not see his problems and his tragedies as one to lay at the feet of any white man or woman. He looks directly at his black neighbours who killed his children. No need to go further.”

    Wow! the amount of posts on this thread since I went out this morning is going to take me some time to catch up. Have a funeral to attend in 45 minutes too.

    However, LIB, you must know that sometimes what seems to be the problem has its roots otherwise. I am contending that the genocide that went on was sparked by outside influences. Your friend’s testimony that a black man killed his family does not answer or even address my question.

    If we can agree that black on black crimes are a result of misdirected minds, you must surely understand where I am coming from. I am tending to wonder if the genocide cannot be compared to black on black crimes; including gang warfare in the ghettos?

    To get to this problem, we would have to go back to see when the genocide started and maybe we would then find the answer.

    You have another interesting post which I will respond to when I return. I may try to get it in while waiting for my transport to arrive.


  49. Sargeant, don’t worry bout dem nurses yuh! Look, u probably doan know dose people like I do but, if they’d left hay wivout complainng bout someting or udda it would have been a blinking miracle! That’s the way those women are man!! Take it from me. They love to complain in order to win sympathy, make u feel guilty and make themselves feel more important when 9 times out of 10, they’re completely in the wrong!! Please, nuhbody doan tell me bout African women!! Ignore dem and kick duh rass back to africa – dats wha I say!!


  50. @LIB

    “In non-white systems how was status determined?”

    Why do you ask that question? Maybe by the amount of cattle or crops. Even minerals.

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