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Submitted by George Brathwaite, PhD Candidate (International Politics)/On The Map

I do not intend to be lengthy in this critique to Mr. Lindsay Holder’s contribution in the Advocate newspaper of 14-15 June 2009 . I am well aware that each of us brings our biases to any project. I also believe that one ought to be sufficiently reflexive and admit to pertinent antecedents that may have an impact on the ways in which arguments are framed, analysed, and disseminated. My position is that of a Caribbean researcher who has been widely influenced by the shapers of postcolonial discourses and by the architects of Caribbean regional integration. Moreover, I have been exposed to a way of life and a thinking that suggests I should love my neighbour as I love myself.

A meandering diatribe that was published in the Sunday Advocate of 14 June 2009, and continued in the Monday edition of the Advocate and which is authored by Lindsay Holder served little in clearing away misunderstandings on ‘immigration policies and the status of immigrants’, if to do so was his primary intent. In this lengthy polemic, Mr. Holder appears more to be attempting to resolve his personal sentiments and advance his patriotic stance in favour of Barbados, than examine the “current issues that provoke discussion,” or provide a basis for managed migration. With all of the many complexities that surround the issue of immigration and more particularly, Barbados’ response to ‘unacceptably high’ numbers of undocumented CARICOM immigrants, Mr. Holder proceeded to exhibit a forlorn dismissal of facts and empirical data.

Surely any well-reasoned analysis would at least make an attempt to provide relevant statistical data that can substantiate arguments being advanced. Mr. Holder prefers to follow the position of the Government of Barbados by relying on “casual observation” on which to determine that “the level of undocumented immigration is unacceptably high.” The sentiments in that statement alone appear to be sullied by bigotry: even if one could make a distinction based on race or ethnicity, how does one come to the conclusion that persons observed at any one point in time and place are undocumented CARICOM immigrants? Isn’t there an ‘Indo-population’ in Barbados originating from Trinidad and Tobago and also from the Asian continent?

It is problematic that Mr. Holder commenced his arguments on the basis that governments make a distinct policy direction by either opting for ‘more liberal immigration policies’ or ‘less liberal policies’. While I do agree to some extent that there has been an identifiable trend that liberal democracies have expanded their rules giving liberal expression to the political and social inclusion of migrants, I will contend that Holder’s starting point is myopic. It is misleading since there are other coexistent requirements to be considered besides the extent to which liberality can be raised as the fundamental principle for states making accommodation for the entry of migrants into their economies.

Mr. Holder in a dichotomous manner, goes on to suggest that by applying an ‘optimal approach’ to matters of immigration policies, the Government of Barbados would in fact be basing such policies on “economic realities as well as some social considerations.” I believe that Mr. Holder’s interesting but ungrounded starting points have turned a blind eye to legal, moral, and ethical considerations. Barbados is a sovereign state, and it has voluntarily become a signatory to several international conventions and/or bilateral and multilateral arrangements (i.e. CARICOM; UN; and the ILO among others). Certainly these must have a bearing when a country seeks to determine more or less liberal policies.

This brings me to a fundamental area of departure with Mr. Holder. In one of his several superficial arguments, Holder fails to acknowledge that Barbados’ dependence on migration (inward and outward) long preceded “the last 10 to 15 years … to satisfy the demand for labour” in the sectors he outlined. I grew up in an area of Barbados that is still today considered a major agricultural salvation for Barbados. I remember the many hundreds of persons that came annually to ‘cut canes’ in Barbados. Many of them remained here ‘undocumented’, and they brought in other family members along with friends via the underground nature of social networks.

Holder argues that “the upper limit to the number of immigrants that a country can sustain depends on the geographical size of the country,” and I counter that it is as big a myth as Holder’s connected assertion that “immigration benefits countries that are under-populated, have ageing populations, or that have labour shortages in some economic sectors.” Surely these cannot be the over-riding criteria upon which immigration policies are fashioned, and neither can these be the sole considerations when a country seeks to adhere to international conventions that encourage the rights and dignity of the human being regardless of status. Moreover, and according to many of the multilateral institutions, “immigration benefits as well as affects all countries” some more than others.

Perhaps the greatest irony in Mr. Holder’s submission rests upon a dichotomous understanding as it relates to the history of CARICOM, the spirit of CARICOM, and Barbados’ leadership and participation in CARICOM. Regretfully, Holder posits that Barbados is “being painted as the main villain impeding the implementation of freedom of movement for CARICOM nationals,” when he knows full well as he did indicate that “Barbados has fully complied with the existing freedom of movement provisions of the CSME Treaty.” In attempting to raise his proud boast of Barbados (for which I also share), Holder conflates the issues of freedom of movement with unregulated immigration; unregulated migration is not a requirement under the RTC.

The RTC at Article 45 does speak to the ambition that “Member States commit themselves to the goal of free movement of their nationals within the Community,” and this is in keeping with an underlying premise that there will be further momentum to “enlarge, as appropriate, the classes of persons entitled to move and work freely in the Community” (Article 46 (a)). In essence, the RTC has set the framework for a spirit of cross-border and functional cooperation with the understanding by CARICOM Member States that there will be a resolve to “establish conditions which would facilitate access by their nationals to the collective resources of the Region on a non-discriminatory basis.” If Mr. Holder accepts and understands the intent and meaning of the RTC, he therefore cannot surmise that the current amnesty offered through the discretion of Barbados’ Prime Minister is ‘non-discriminatory’. The amnesty, in policy and practice, specifically targets ‘undocumented CARICOM immigrants’.

Further irony is illustrated by Mr. Holder, when he quotes Gordon K. Lewis in referring to “the unity, the shared sense of being West Indians.” Holder reflects Lewis’ position that speaks of the necessity to “meet particular problems in which all possess a felt concrete interest,” and yet Holder seems oblivious to Articles 187 through 189 of the RTC. Hence, I contend that the pre-emptive posture by the Prime Minister of Barbados could not be considered as keeping within the precincts of the RTC or as Holder suggests, Lewis’ mode of thinking for strengthening a CARICOM spirit.

Many of the circumstances and points outlined on the EU misrepresented the nature of EU immigration policies and the legal facilitation for free movement of people within the scope of that jurisdiction. Holder, writing to correct what he saw as misleading from Ricky Singh, states that “the right of freedom of movement” allow its citizens to “have the freedom to move within the EEA to work, study, or establish businesses.” What he does not say is that there are criteria in place and these are consistent with basic measures of human rights and justice. The most essential point though in regards of the EU’s model, that it legally recognises its membership in clear contrast to citizens of third countries.

Holder states that demands ought not to be made on Barbados to “accept the burdens associated with unacceptably high numbers of undocumented immigrants within its borders.” I agree that there are burdens associated with irregular migration, but I challenge the Government of Barbados and Mr. Holder to make public the statistical data that suggest the intensity of any burdens that now impact on Barbados. How can a government be seriously seeking to address a problem and there is not the co-requisite of supplying important data in respect of the challenges, burdens, and economic costs.

I ask Mr. Lindsay Holder four (4) questions:

  1. How much information has the Barbados Government supplied in recognition that these categories of legality and illegality coexists within the domain of immigration debates?
  2. Should the focus be on limiting those persons who may have normally qualified under the amnesty framework which has been in place as far back as 1995, or should emphasis be on finding solutions to the problems identified as requiring reform at the domestic level of the agency responsible for internal migration control?
  3. Would it not make more political currency to engage the public in Barbados, civil society, and regional publics such as corresponding Heads of Government on probable solutions to the problems that cause irregular migration and insecurity?
  4. Do Barbados and/or other CARICOM Member States have a moral duty and ethical challenge to ensure the humane treatment of Caribbean peoples?

I close by stating that Mr. Holder’s article makes an interesting read despite its faulty premises and some misleading statements. Nevertheless, it opens discussion on several fronts that are important for consideration. It nonetheless falls way short of the consistency that would lead to the essence of his summary. Holder summarises that managed migration is “best suited for protecting the rights of the immigrants,” and I do agree with the conclusion. I hope that he is not insinuating that the discriminatory policy and practice as being undertaken by the Government of Barbados will achieve this feat. I am seeing and hearing widespread fear and this will only serve to push persons underground making it more difficult to actually manage immigration challenges.

I too end by stating that persons who support the Government of Barbados’ position do not continue to demonise and criminalise those persons who make a contribution to this country regardless of if they are citizens, non-citizens, documented or undocumented. Let us debate the various positions and come to consensus on a way forward and means to manage immigration in Barbados and across CARICOM.


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  1. Mash up &buy back Avatar
    Mash up &buy back

    Is a good thing george did not intend to be lengthy.


  2. A first response to George:

    The Secretary General of Caricom and others of that ilk have publicly admitted in recent days that the Revised Tready of Chaguaramus may have to be revisited. It is clear that the current framework regulating the movement both in treaty and spirit needs to be changed in light of the issues cropping up. Such iteration is normal even if the EU model is referenced. BU remains concerned that the vertical integration required among the regional institutions and decision making processes are not well enough advance to give the regional movement the impetus is needs.

    So George you argument may not be steeped in present day realities.

  3. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David

    In truth there is little integration of a true kind in any aspect of Caribbean life.

    Thanks for letting me get access to the Holder articles from Sunday from your site library. I did not see his follow up piece on Monday, however. Nor did I hear his comments on the radio today.


  4. What does this guy really want? Is it that he expects bajans to offer their jobs to illegals and tell them come build a shanttey on my property or better still come used my family house? I cannot understand how so-called sensible people because of politics could think and speak so much folly. George, you and Mia & Co can open your houses and invite all those that you are encouraging to hide from immigration to come live at you.


  5. Big thanks to BU family member Adrian H for taking the time to convert the Lindsay Holder document to PDF.

    It is much appreciated!


  6. george brathwaite, you are pathetic for a so-called “intellectual”. Surprised UWI accepted you as a Ph.D candidate. Take your warped thinking to a higher level. U have a long, long way to go.


  7. Scout George dont have a house!


  8. JC don’t be like that lets attack his thesis position if we can.


  9. @ JC and Sylvan

    If I can say one thing, you make me smile. From that extensive thesis above, this is your first order of business. Please, do tell. What is Barbados role in Caribbean single space?


  10. @Grorge
    It is really hard for the Bushman to comprehend how someone could be so dense. It would be far better for you to come out and explain whatever personal interest or bias that you have – rather that come with such nonsense and expect that the BU family would buy it…

    What four stupid questions for Mr. Holder what!?

    1 – Only an idiot would see the need to quantify the actual number of undocumented persons before seeking to solve the problem. Wuh george, even if um was only ONE of them, then there is still a need to CORRECT the situation.
    …exactly how many people have to break into your house before you call the police?!?

    Your second and third questions to Mr Holder are both incoherent nonsense…

    …and question 4 about a “a moral duty and ethical challenge to ensure the humane treatment of Caribbean peoples?” ?!?!
    …what has that got to do with the Barbados Government upholding the LAW? and how does returning an ILLEGAL immigrant to their rightful home constitute inhumane treatment?

    ….man it would serve you well to hush your mouth and hope that people think that you bright … at least until you get the phd thing… after that you will be safe no matter how much nonsense you talk.


  11. It seems very clear to me that the majority of Bajans support the Administration’s Immigration policy.Even Mr. Rickey Singh acknowledged that in an article recently.

    Caricom also does not have a say on what is Barbados’ SOVEREIGN right to govern as it pertains to its immigration policies.


  12. Let’s cut the bullshit and address the crux of the matter.

    Intellectual waffling will cloud clear judgement.

    6000, 30000, 70000 illegals who knows?……who cares?

    Nobody knows so we go into normal default….panic.

    A completely manageable situation has been brought to our front pages by the the inability of our civil servants to apply our laws justly.

    I can’t blame any of these for not wanting to pick a berry whilst ever they are immersed in a cesspit of corruption.

    The BLP’s current campaign to justify the regime they encouraged exposes them as servants to the main beneficiaries to their designed lax system.

    Step back Bajans, and consider this.

    Who benefits from these illegals, who is prompting Mia to protest.

    If there were no undocumented jobs there would be no undocumented immigrants.
    For every single illegal Guyanese worker there is a Bajan employer.

    Not necessarily exploiting them, but exploiting our rickety tax laws.

    This is the elephant in the room, ignore for a moment the happy chappys down Fairchild Street on a Friday, ask yourselves who has just paid them, and why?

    Then we can have a real discussion.


  13. @Jay
    You said…
    It seems very clear to me that the majority of Bajans support the Administration’s Immigration policy.
    ****************************************
    WRONG!!!
    The administration seems to at last be supporting the immigration policy demanded by the majority of Bajans.

    …and unless they follow through -they too, (like the previous lot that we routed), will feel the full weight of the Bajan people.

    …the PROBLEM for us right now is that the BLP, instead of repenting and placing themselves in a position to be RESPONSIVE to the desires of Bajans, continue with their foolishness.

    If the DLP let us down, then that will leave us with the PDP…..(Lord help us…) …so I depending on David!!


  14. Mike Ashby I have been doing some serious searching and I have been reading all of the comments. I have not seen as yet how a country that is protecting its boders from racism (which mind you already exists in Barbados in subtle ways) and who soever will have breached any laws!

    What I find amusing is that gb has NOTHING , NOTHING AT ALLL to loose in his conquest for fame! George has nothing to worry about he has no house land, car etc. He is a boarder in Dash Valley , st. George. Therefore, I personally dont think that he has any right to say anything about TRUE bajans and their land!

    I on the other hand am a working mother who pays bills go to school and work real blasted hard. I do not want to go to Guyana, Jamaica, St. Vincent or any other place within the Caribbean or THE WORLD FOR THAT MATTER , and REFUSE to let any one ESPECIALLY NO GOOD GB from stopping me or my DAMN children from living here!

    That is how I feel about your CSME which NO ONE wants to join but Barbaados because of OSA and Jagdeo . All 2 of these persons have agendas. My only Agenda in life is to teach my children to protect what is theirs AT ALL COSTS!

    Thank you Mr. Ashby!


  15. I am sorry David for being like that but GB is bull headed and arrogant, and some of his arguments are poor and he is still not dealing with the issues of Jagdeo and company. He is not dealing with the long term effect of these non nationals (those undocumented), he refuses to acknowledge that history has shown that each and every time that these persons with their beliefs and idealologies come around us we are left at the bottom!

    I refuse to play dead and ignorant to certain happenings within Fiji, Mauritus, Trinidad or Guyana!

    I detest the thought that my son or family member in times to come will be driving and someone pulls him over and because he is black be victimised or God forbid killed . We must know who are in our borders. I will not use any more derogatory terms at GB anymore but he pists me off!


  16. @LIB

    The follow up piece from Monday is also there check the date(s) on the pages


  17. I am not impressed with several of the personal attacks wunna pelting at GB. The truth is, whetehr he is right or wrong, no one seems to be punching a pinhole in his arguments. I see envy, ignorance, and vanity rather than reason. Keep up the good work Brath. Sooner or later, some body gine open their eyes.


  18. @JC

    Could it be that both under and post grad students have a tendency to become so married or fixated to disproving a hypothesis when pursuing their dissertations that the blinkers go on and reason and all else go through the window?


  19. Mash up &buy back // June 16, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Is a good thing george did not intend to be lengthy.

    **************

    ‘Mash up’, u know Bajans boy!!

    LOL!!


  20. Bush Tea
    Like you, I’m urging our P.M not to back down but stand as a true patriotic bajan and defend the sovereignty and security of this great nation. I want to assure the P.M that the majority of bajans stand firmly behind. I challenge Peter Wickham to caary out a poll to see how many bajans are supportive of the P.M’s policy, but then it might not be a fair survey. We need an independent pollster.


  21. @George Brathwaite

    You insult Barbadians by submitting your views for highlight and then you don’t enter the debate? We might accept your approach if we did not notice that you find no reason not to contribute on Norman Girvan’s blog. A blog which has totally skewed the debate from a Barbados perspective. We will quote Lindsay Holder by saying to you and other Barbadian academics that this immigration matter is so important to the future well being of a Barbados which has been built on sound leadership over the years that the inclination for ideologueing should stop in a national interest.

  22. Mash up &buy back Avatar
    Mash up &buy back

    The hipocrisy of the barat jagdeo administratuion is really too much to stomach.

    Today in the kaeiteur news we see that the CCJ (caribbean court of justice) is dealing with ac case where Guyana breached the treaty of Chagaramus by removing the tariff on a non caricom good ie Cement.

    Here we have guyana who is at the front of the line shouting the loudest saying that Barbados is not honouring the treaty of Chagaramus,while all the while they are doing the same thing.

    I really think it is time that Barbados step away from this CSME joke thing.

    IT IS CLEAR TO ME THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE CARIBBEAN LEADERS WANT TO DONE WITH THIS CSME FOOLISHNESS BUT DON’T KNOW HOW,SO THEY ARE USING BARBADOS AS THE FALL GUY – SO THAT WHEN THEY ALL DROP OUT – THEY WILL SAY IT IS BARBADOS FAULT – IMPOSING THE NEW IMMIGRATION POLICY.

    Watch carefully and see.


  23. VOB news will carry Prime Minister Thompson on their In Focus Show this coming Sunday at 9.30AM. Based on the snippet which VOB is using as a promo it looks like the PM is going on the offensive, in a nutshell he is saying to the other Caricom leaders to butt out that this new immigration policy is a sovereign matter.


  24. I believe that first and foremost we need to have respect for other’s opinion regardless of our position. The personal attack on George Brathwaite is totally out off line.
    Deal with the issue, disagree if you so desire, while i will read and make up my mind on all opinion . the personal attack only weaken the crtics points


  25. It is a sovereign matter!!!!! THIS is our Country,and my children and grand children have to live here,I totally argree with MY Prime Minister, “ever so welcome,wait for an invitation”.To much of them bout here,a lady where I live rented a three bedroom house to two of them,they parted off the woman dinning room and made an extra room ,to accomodate their friends,15 of them ended up living in that house (believe it or not) . We as bajans have to get serious,this is our land,when them come here and swat in the water zones and build shanties just about any where ,ignorant people that want to be heard jump on the band wagon and talk a lot of stupidness.Why the hell Mia don’t let them come and live at she,or who ever else think that ,Mr Thompson is wrong.
    How the ass you expect to tell some one how to run them house when you cannot handle yours.and every one running from it .Just the other day I read in Dear Christine about one woman who says she was here for 10 years and her husband is a bajan who fathered three children,BUT,his wife would not sign the divorce papers,Our Country does not allow bigamy,therefore he is NOT her husband. This is just the smoke we are dealing with ,ALL of them that are here illegal should be rounded up in a humane manner and ask to leave our shores, I for one do not wish to go and live in any of their counrties,I AM A PROUD BAJAN.
    There are bleeding us.The time has come for them to go ,regardless of what others are saying .(stupes)


  26. Mash Up & Buy Back
    I totally agree with you. All Caribbean leaders are tired of undocumented aliens in their midst, especially indo-guyanese. In my opinion, Guyana should be kicked out of caricom, maybe then the grouping would be effective. Guyana need to form alliances with south american countries, as they are a part of the south american continent. And yes I said it, guyanese are not west indian/caribbean. They only say that they are west indians when it suits them. I fully support PM Thompson in this new immigration policy. He has to protect Barbados from these south american invaders. By the way the west indies comprises of all the islands beginning from the Bahamas down to Trinidad and the last time that I checked my maps Guyana is not the chain of islands. And I not Barbadian, howeve I strongly support this new immigration policy and I hope that the other island nations follow suit and deport these undocumented aliens. These aliens wherever they go they seem to stir up strife and discourse. The only corrupt leader in Caricom is Ragdeo and his people need to return to their backward country and change their governement which is currently a failed state.


  27. It is amazing the boldfaced hypocrites we have in Barbados. David Ellis is one of the most shameless persons I ever heard in Barbados.

    I made the decision to boycott Starcom Network and Brass Tacks.I stuck to my position,but within the last few weeks I tuned into VOB to hear the views of Barbadians on the immigration issue.I am bewildered but not surprised at the position David Ellis has taken on this immigration isssue.This is the same David Ellis that shut out callers at the slightest usage of the word immigration.This is the same David Ellis that said things to the effect that migration into Barbados is a reality and the changing racial makeup of Barbados is a reality that we must come to grips with.This is he same David Ellis that allowed Norman Faria & Peter Wickham to insult Barbadians and to threaten Barbadians because we wanted to deal with this illegal immigration issue.I remembered quite well David Ellis & VOB facilitating Norman Faria requests for Barbadians to be charge if we ever brought up the immigration issue on the radio stations..This is the same David Ellis that castigated the blogs especially this one Barbados Underground.

    I am not impress with David Ellis,I think he is playing the devil’s advocate or has recognise the downturn in VOB popularity & Brass Tack programme and it could be a ploy to bolster the ratings of VOB.

    It is very interesting that VOB has changed its policy on this immigration issue & the editorial in today’s Nation newspaper.


  28. Negroman he is not alone. Like Peter Wickham, and David Ellis, the nationnews is not consistent in it’s editorial opinion on this issue. They are not saying why this is so, and they are not denying it. One is left to opine as to why the opposing views then and now? What other considerations have they taken into account that could lead them to create these inconsistencies?

    today’s Nation-news editorial contrast nicely with this one they publish back in 2004.

    Stop The Guyanese Bashing – Saturday 22, May-2004

    Stop The Guyanese Bashing – Saturday 22, May-2004
    THERE IS a very special ring about radio talk shows that keep us all buzzing with conversation. Interesting people make valid points which add considerably to public debate on issues of import.
    But that is only half of the talk.

    The other is diatribe. Pure and simple.

    Unfortunately, we have to swallow the one with the other. We have to listen to much nonsense if we want to benefit from the comments of value.

    The most recent example is the debate about the presence in Barbados of a large number of non-nationals, in particular people emanating from the Republic of Guyana. Estimates put the level at between 25 000 and 30 000.

    People are screaming on the airwaves about it, and they sound pretty sick. Arguments that border on racism and the need to preserve our “race”; arguments about Guyanese taking away the jobs of Barbadians; arguments about the social and infrastructure cost of this excess population are but three of the most non-sensical.

    This is not the first time that this debate has raged. The slightest public incident involving Guyanese or reference to the presence of Guyanese here gets the crazy-heads going on radio.

    Few people want to admit that without the presence of Guyanese artisans the construction industry would be at a standstill because of a labour shortage.

    Skilled men and women have made their way here and have made their mark because they bring to construction a sound work ethic and the ability to do some of the finest finishes.

    Others have come here to escape the hardship of life in a country divided down the middle because of racial conflict master-minded by selfish politicians.

    Others are a type of political refugee, and they fit into our country better than many others in this region because Guyanese and Barbadians have similar modest lifestyles and levels of social tolerance.

    The majority of people who access the radio to talk have no appreciation of the fact that we in the Caribbean – particularly the English-speaking Caribbean – have a common history and a common destiny.

    They are blind to the realities of a coming common market and want to ignore the fact that many years ago it was the Barbadians who benefited from the hospitality of other countries, absorbing our excess population.

    It hurts to hear pygmies giving vent on air to their petty chatter and myopic thinking, unchecked and unchallenged. We now merely listen and wait for the time when the bar is lifted and the radio shows return to more inspiring, more sane debate.

    http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1119&view=findpost&p=11008


  29. It makes the oft time repeated comment that the Nationnews and VOB are all about money first, more likely to be the core reasons for the inconsistencies in opinions on the very same issue. I don’t trust them and I would encourage visible demonstration of such.


  30. Good illustration Adrian.

    What the immigration issue has exposed is the nation newspaper editorial policy. They have none. Who to blame? The executive editor in the period has been Roxanne Gibbs a Barbadian of Guyanese extraction. In the absence of any other information we have to suggest that Gibbs has unprofessionally guided the nation’s editorial policy on the issue of immigration. It might explain and we don’t know why Lindsay Holder selected the Advocate to publish?


  31. after posting my latest above, I found Living in Barbados comments.

    LIB said:
    But put another way, should a COMMERCIAL station not be capable of moving with opinions or even seeing where its bottom line bread is buttered?
    ———————————————

    He is asking a question, which seems to suggest that he agrees with it,… should this be the strategy of VOB. However, we do not know for sure. Nevertheless, I will continue to build possible reasons for their INCONSISTENCIES in the absence of a statement from them on this.

    A bajan whose profession takes him across the length and breath of Barbados said this to me on Monday evening.

    [quote]
    But you know what an Old Indian guy I knew and use to converse with before he passed away always use to tell me “When Money speak the truth always becomes silent” and as I journeyed through life I always see it happening.[/quote]


  32. Even Carl “shsssh” Moore gets it.

    Holder’s article a ‘must read’

    6/17/2009

    ALL thinking Caribbean people owe a debt of gratitude to Barbadian economist Mr. Lindsay Holder and the Barbados Advocate for the first unemotional, well-researched analysis of the vexed question of Caribbean migration, in the issues of Sunday and Monday of this week (June 14 & 15, 2009).

    Of course, if your attention span is short, you would have glossed over it, on the specious grounds that “it too long”.
    If, on the other hand, you wish to understand the current issue, I urge you to set aside an hour and read what Mr. Holder wrote. Better still, keep both issues of the newspaper in a safe place for future reference.

    Mr. Holder’s scholarly and clear analysis is exactly what must be applied to corporal punishment and other issues that constantly perplex us and made us go around in circles in search of answers.

    CARL MOORE

    Don’t worry Carl I have just emailed it to you. Don’t forget to share it. lol!

    J, do you know Carl? lol!

  33. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds

    Interesting take on the question. If one believes that corporations should be focusing on remaining profitable (or the worst breaking even), we cannot then expect them to stand by particular positions that may threaten that. [Taking the fall in popularity as a red flag for falling revenues.] I’m not aware of The Nation’s motives for changing position but my cynical nose can smell faintly a financial logic. A good topic for those interested in calling Brass Tacks.


  34. Old stagers like Carl Moore will hopefully learn that there is a place for emotion in any debate. In fact it is probably the emotional argument which is based on anecdotal, observation and reports from reputable offices like the Auditor general et al which would have now given rise and acceptance to the dispassionate exposition by Lindsay Holder. There is hope for Carl. It is a shame that he continues to read BU offer zero feedback. Life is short.

    on the last LIB comment.

    The Nation Group has held the leadership position in Barbados we venture to say by default given the implosion of the Advocate which is now making an attempt to reassert a market position. The point is businesses every day create and package products to appeal to the consumer, the nation and news is no different. The nation if it wanted could have held a position on the immigration or any issue and package it in a way that would be attractive to market given its dominant marketshare.


  35. My concern cannot be their financial well being, they do not share their spoils with me. I do however understand that their are a business first and foremost, but if they fully appreciate their core business they would have by now understood that public preception does impact the bottom line, both in a negative and a positive way, and therefore they need to strike a balance between profits and public perception. So that when in a debate and you seek to win the argument by resorting to innuendo, the name calling, and blatant put downs, as is clearly the case in that September 04 editorial, and you go further to disallow dissent to your position via your control of other public discourse media, then you run the risk of a negative impact to your core. All bets are off with regards to civil debate. If is for this reason alone that I will not support the nation newspaper and it’s affiliates with my two cents or time.

  36. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David

    Lindsay Holder’s piece is not dispassionate (ie, there is plenty of strong feeling in what he writes).

    Your comment on The Nation is fine, save that it means (to me) their having an ability to lead, which comes from some clear vision. Your remark (“has held the leadership position in Barbados we venture to say by default”) seems to beg that question.


  37. Is it me or is there some similarities between the put downs in that 04 editorial and George Brathwaites response to Linsay Holder?

    diatribe and Myopic are two words intended to be dismissive and condecending.

    Did someone say that other family members were being too harsh on George? really now!!!!


  38. I got to say I enjoy the writing style of Freddie Kissoon.It is also interesting to note the picture above the article depicting the abject conditions Guyana’s nationals have to endure & why squatting in Barbados might be commonplace for them.

    http://guyanaprovidencestadium.blogspot.com/2009/06/guyana-invisible-giant.html

    “Why is the giant invisible? Sounds like the King’s new clothes
    June 17, 2009 By knews Filed Under Features / Columnists, Freddie Kissoon

    I quote President Jagdeo; “When we run down our country all the time, then every immigration officer feels that every Guyanese wants to run away.” (press briefing last Saturday at the Caricom Secretariat). The dimensions of that statement are endless. You can analyse it from every conceivable angle and one conclusion will be there – it is a tragic reflection of what Guyana has become.

    I don’t know who the political advisors of the President are but they are either incompetent or the President is ignoring their advice. Let us take assess two angles of this perception of the President.
    It was President Jagdeo who stated in Trinidad that Guyana has one of the most democratic Constitutions in the World. It is President Jagdeo’s Government that has more media houses serving the State than another country in the Western hemisphere. Let us look at them – Chronicle, Mirror, NCN television, NCN radio, Guyana Times, VCT 28, Channel 65, and Channel 69.

    The Mirror, Guyana Times and Chronicle have web pages. In these newspapers there is a plethora of statistics, eulogies and proclamations that when taken together paint a picture of a happy, democratic, economically sound Caricom country governed by a historic party named the PPP and a popular President.

    Why, then, should an immigration officer in any Caricom territory be influenced by how an editorial or editorials and commentators in two private newspapers conceptualize the state of affairs in Guyana when the Government has the upper hand in the publicity game?

    Mr. Randy Depoo, a Guyanese who is an American citizen and who once worked as a consular officer in the State Department, observed in one of his columns for this newspaper that Guyana has one of the highest rejection rates of American visitor’s visas. Depoo says that a sickening aspect of this story is that Guyana’s failure rate is above the Phillipines and Haiti.

    Having said that, let us look at who are doing the rejection. These are men and women who work in the US Embassy and while working there, live in Guyana. They read the Chronicle and they see the articles of Mrs. Jagan (when she was alive), Ralph Ramkarran, Hydar Ally, and company penning the most glorious compositions about the achievements of the Guyana Government.
    Why aren’t these consular officers not moved to treat Guyanese applicants with more positive offers as say in Barbados? This rich, wealthy, happy, democratic country (according to Mirror, Chronicle, Guyana Times) is not included in the list of CARICOM nations that are excluded from visa applications to the European Union.

    You would think that Guyana would be the first of the Caricom lands to be favourably treated for visa exemption. Don’t forget, the rich, pro-Government newspaper, the Guyana Times boldly sermonized in an editorial not so long ago that Guyana, the giant, (their word) has arisen.
    Well something is wrong. No one is seeing the giant. The immigration officers in Barbados do not think we are a giant. The consular officers at the US Embassy have disowned our Goliath status and the EU bureaucracy wants Hercules to apply for visa to enter EU territories. Some giant are we!

    It appears that some person or persons in the corridors of power has/have read too much of the great philosophy, Thomas Hobbes who wrote of the Leviathan. The Leviathan was a huge sea monster in Greek mythology that was unbeatable. Guyana Times is right – the Leviathan has awoken.

    But he lives in the pages of Hobbes’ great philosophical works not in the Land of Many Waters. Or he is very much alive but it is like in the tale of the King’s new suit? Only the King can see the clothes and no one else.

    The second dimension of this presidential statement is very tragic. Right in front of me as I type this article, are the two independent dailies. The Kaieteur News has a front picture of women who have to use the river to wash their clothes because the giant of a country, Guyana, has not been able to deliver potable water through the taps for these villagers.

    This is why people run away. They run away because they cannot see the rebirth of the West Indian cricket team on their television sets even though cricket is part of their lives; the state cannot provide them with electricity.

    I heard that most Guyanese cricket fans are planning to travel to England to see West Indies who will make the finals. They will not see it on television here because of electricity disruptions. But disappointment is on the horizon. The giant is invisible so the visas will not be given.”


  39. I have a proposal to make that I am certain would resolve this immigration problem and cut all of this lot of long talk.

    I want to propose that all Barbadians living outside of Barbados should do the decent thing and stop burdening those countries by sending home barrels and remittances and willingly return to their homeland. If they refuse then the political directorate and immigration officers of the country should round them up at nights when they are sleeping, put them on a bus or open back truck and shuttle them to the airport or seaport to be sent back to Barbados.

    The immigration officers overseas should go to schools, parks, health facilities where children can be found, take up only the children of bajans unknown to their parents and put them in a holding cell at the airport or seaport until a flight or vessel is available for them, however long that takes.

    To complete this circle I would like all those living in Barbados that are not born here to leave right away or be thrown out by our immigration officers. This way I would get the rid of Thompson who was born in ENGLAND and his wife who was born in ST. LUCIA. I can’t see why they should be here and others can’t, and they are of no help to the development of this country.

    Just look at the value that Dame Olga Lope Seales has been to Barbados, the many children and adults she has helped to improve their lot. That value would have been lost to Barbados had this ENGLISH snob Thompson been in office then. Her worth to this country is far more precious than that of a Mara or David will ever be.

    By the time this Englishman (non-Barbadian) is finished with this country we are going to be worse off than in the early 1990s.


  40. Adrian Hinds wrote:

    “J, do you know Carl? lol!”

    Yes.


  41. And Adrian I know Lindsay Holder too.

    Nice guy, and smart too.

    But I still think that for newspaper articles he should be short and sweet.

    He should send the long, long articles to an academic journal.


  42. We need to temper our emotions when dealing with immigration.

    Remember that our people have emigrated to many countries over the last 150 years.

    Too many people are looking at this subject with prejudice in their eyes.

    I think that technically the policy is a good one… BUT – there is a vast chasm between what is policy and what is practiced.

    Too many people have come to me and said that they are afraid to go back to the immigration authority because they will be deported (These are documented workers living here for 8 yrs or over).

    Work visas are being denied and human beings are told to pack up and go home in TWO weeks, even after living here for 15 yrs and paying taxes all the while.

    People have even sold cars, furniture, houses and sent home appliances because they fear revocation of their status…and some of them have been right!

    I agree that their are too many undocumented immigrants in Barbados, but we need to have some humanity when dealing with them.

    Just think of the times when prejudice was dealt to us in another country and think about how it would feel to have the shoe on the other foot.


  43. May I quote from George Brathwaite’s article:
    ” I too end by stating that persons who support the Government of Barbados’ position do not continue to demonise and criminalise those persons who make a contribution to this country regardless of if they are citizens, non-citizens documented or undocumented”

    I cannot speak for others, but my intention although supportive of the Government’s position is not to demonise or criminalise – which is not within my remit – anyone.

    My thinking simply is, if someone has purposely broken the law and when an opportunity is given to address that situation; seeks not to avail themselves of it. Surely it is only reasonable that the Laws of the country should take their natural course, if only to underscore the requirements of a civil society.

    That individuals have made or are making a contribution to society is beside the point, at the first stage in the process. Most people who break the law have – at some time – made a contribution to society.

    If we only prosecute and bring to court those who have not made or are not making a contribution to society the Law Courts could easily be closed…the simpleness of that logic is thus laid bare.

    (1) The first act is breaking the Law which has to be addressed.
    (2) Any contribution to society made by undocumented immigrants can be seen as a “mitigating” factor in how the Immigration Department reviews the case…thus deserved credit can then be given.

    I am surprised that people who should know better are confusing the issues involved.

    George Brathwaite also wrote:
    …” let us debate the various positions and come to a consensus on a way forward and means to manage immigration in Barbados and across CARICOM”

    It is true we can have debates but that would not advance any positions or bring “consensus” because the Prime Minister of Guyana Barat Jagdeo is in the business of exporting Guyanese, it serves him well. Jagdeo knows quite well people from across the CARICOM region have no wish to immigrate to Guyana in large numbers, the reverse is patiently obvious.

    When a Prime Minister David Thompson – of a sovereign state Barbados – makes a commitment to his citizens he is castigated by some who have a vested interest.

    This situation is not of Prime Minister Thompson’s making, it is a Guyanese problem. The undocumented Guyanese immigrants are in Barbados and other places in such numbers because Guyana seems incapable of providing even basic opportunities for its people. That is a simple fact and no amount of debating however elegantly conducted will alter that situation; the nettle has to be grasped in Guyana it is from there the immigrants come.

    As a side issue…and it is one, because it leads only into a tributary of dead sand. It does not matter if there are 5,000, 10,000, or 70,000 illegal immigrants in Barbados, the issue is a sovereign state seeking to legally document citizens within its borders which is a right, and what should be expected in a well ordered society.

  44. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Yardbroom

    Your point about the irrelvance of numbers is right as far as sovereignty and legality go.

    However, the numbers issues are important when the impact of the amnesty is to be assessed, and if the arguments about pressure on resources etc. are to be taken seriously. If we take a ball park estimate and say that half of the undocumented immigrants will be deported, then the broader consequences and logistics are very different if you are dealing with 2,500 or 35,000 people.


  45. Royal Rumble this we is really you, a yardfowl by any measure, and such makes your prediction understandable. I feel your pain, and then i move on. So should you by finding an institution other than a political party to align yourself with. May this very same prediction.
    befall you if you don’t.

    Interesting that a Yardbroom (comments) came right after that of a Yardfowl and swept the cackling fowl back into it’s pen.


  46. So the BLP’s response is now being pegged to concerns for Bajans living over in away? Wuh wunnuh aint had nuh friends amongst us. We have not forgotten how wunnuh intended to treat to us as Returning Nationals. How wunnuh wanted our remittances but not us.
    When there were massive street protest by immigrants in the US, Barbadians and other West Indians ignored the call from their respective embassey’s and consulate to come out and be represented. Even when living illegally in the US, a bajan knows that it is not right and does not seek to make a fuss.


  47. Yardbroom, I am sufficiently convince that the call for data is driven by an unwillingness to give in to the call of the masses and their current governing representatives. I am not put off by this refusal to be taken seriously by the few, their opinion and that is all um is, is the minority.


  48. @ livinginbarbados
    We will not know the “exact” number of illegal immigrants in Barbados if public pronouncements by officials are to be believed, reliable data is not available.

    That being the case, it is quite true that the logistics of dealing with 2,000 or 35,000 immigrants are different.

    My reasoning is ahead of the game… one can ask what about 25,000 immigrants? is that too much or too little, therein lies the tributary of dead sand…I will “not” go there.


  49. @ Adrian Hinds
    I agree completely, it is a diversionary tactic… I only saw you comment after I had posted.

  50. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Yardbroom

    I would not disagree with you on exact numbers. But I am following a logic that says if you want to manage something you have to know what it is you are managing. A ball park estimate that is as wide as 5000-70000 tells me that talk of ‘managed migration’ makes no sense. Without getting boring and talking about stocks and flows, if the government were to say that they would accept a doubling/halving of a category (let’s ignore illegals for a minute) then how can they plan to manage that without at least a good estimate?

    For me, this is not diversion because, if given my interests, I were to ask the government what they estimate to be budgetary/economic impact is expected to be of the policy I don’t want some hogwash about ‘we don’t know’.

    That’s relevant to Barbadians because at the end of the day there will be economic, social, financial, and other consequences (good and bad). That does not detract from whether the policy is good or whether one agrees with it.

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