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Submitted by George Brathwaite, PhD Candidate (International Politics)/On The Map

I do not intend to be lengthy in this critique to Mr. Lindsay Holder’s contribution in the Advocate newspaper of 14-15 June 2009 . I am well aware that each of us brings our biases to any project. I also believe that one ought to be sufficiently reflexive and admit to pertinent antecedents that may have an impact on the ways in which arguments are framed, analysed, and disseminated. My position is that of a Caribbean researcher who has been widely influenced by the shapers of postcolonial discourses and by the architects of Caribbean regional integration. Moreover, I have been exposed to a way of life and a thinking that suggests I should love my neighbour as I love myself.

A meandering diatribe that was published in the Sunday Advocate of 14 June 2009, and continued in the Monday edition of the Advocate and which is authored by Lindsay Holder served little in clearing away misunderstandings on ‘immigration policies and the status of immigrants’, if to do so was his primary intent. In this lengthy polemic, Mr. Holder appears more to be attempting to resolve his personal sentiments and advance his patriotic stance in favour of Barbados, than examine the “current issues that provoke discussion,” or provide a basis for managed migration. With all of the many complexities that surround the issue of immigration and more particularly, Barbados’ response to ‘unacceptably high’ numbers of undocumented CARICOM immigrants, Mr. Holder proceeded to exhibit a forlorn dismissal of facts and empirical data.

Surely any well-reasoned analysis would at least make an attempt to provide relevant statistical data that can substantiate arguments being advanced. Mr. Holder prefers to follow the position of the Government of Barbados by relying on “casual observation” on which to determine that “the level of undocumented immigration is unacceptably high.” The sentiments in that statement alone appear to be sullied by bigotry: even if one could make a distinction based on race or ethnicity, how does one come to the conclusion that persons observed at any one point in time and place are undocumented CARICOM immigrants? Isn’t there an ‘Indo-population’ in Barbados originating from Trinidad and Tobago and also from the Asian continent?

It is problematic that Mr. Holder commenced his arguments on the basis that governments make a distinct policy direction by either opting for ‘more liberal immigration policies’ or ‘less liberal policies’. While I do agree to some extent that there has been an identifiable trend that liberal democracies have expanded their rules giving liberal expression to the political and social inclusion of migrants, I will contend that Holder’s starting point is myopic. It is misleading since there are other coexistent requirements to be considered besides the extent to which liberality can be raised as the fundamental principle for states making accommodation for the entry of migrants into their economies.

Mr. Holder in a dichotomous manner, goes on to suggest that by applying an ‘optimal approach’ to matters of immigration policies, the Government of Barbados would in fact be basing such policies on “economic realities as well as some social considerations.” I believe that Mr. Holder’s interesting but ungrounded starting points have turned a blind eye to legal, moral, and ethical considerations. Barbados is a sovereign state, and it has voluntarily become a signatory to several international conventions and/or bilateral and multilateral arrangements (i.e. CARICOM; UN; and the ILO among others). Certainly these must have a bearing when a country seeks to determine more or less liberal policies.

This brings me to a fundamental area of departure with Mr. Holder. In one of his several superficial arguments, Holder fails to acknowledge that Barbados’ dependence on migration (inward and outward) long preceded “the last 10 to 15 years … to satisfy the demand for labour” in the sectors he outlined. I grew up in an area of Barbados that is still today considered a major agricultural salvation for Barbados. I remember the many hundreds of persons that came annually to ‘cut canes’ in Barbados. Many of them remained here ‘undocumented’, and they brought in other family members along with friends via the underground nature of social networks.

Holder argues that “the upper limit to the number of immigrants that a country can sustain depends on the geographical size of the country,” and I counter that it is as big a myth as Holder’s connected assertion that “immigration benefits countries that are under-populated, have ageing populations, or that have labour shortages in some economic sectors.” Surely these cannot be the over-riding criteria upon which immigration policies are fashioned, and neither can these be the sole considerations when a country seeks to adhere to international conventions that encourage the rights and dignity of the human being regardless of status. Moreover, and according to many of the multilateral institutions, “immigration benefits as well as affects all countries” some more than others.

Perhaps the greatest irony in Mr. Holder’s submission rests upon a dichotomous understanding as it relates to the history of CARICOM, the spirit of CARICOM, and Barbados’ leadership and participation in CARICOM. Regretfully, Holder posits that Barbados is “being painted as the main villain impeding the implementation of freedom of movement for CARICOM nationals,” when he knows full well as he did indicate that “Barbados has fully complied with the existing freedom of movement provisions of the CSME Treaty.” In attempting to raise his proud boast of Barbados (for which I also share), Holder conflates the issues of freedom of movement with unregulated immigration; unregulated migration is not a requirement under the RTC.

The RTC at Article 45 does speak to the ambition that “Member States commit themselves to the goal of free movement of their nationals within the Community,” and this is in keeping with an underlying premise that there will be further momentum to “enlarge, as appropriate, the classes of persons entitled to move and work freely in the Community” (Article 46 (a)). In essence, the RTC has set the framework for a spirit of cross-border and functional cooperation with the understanding by CARICOM Member States that there will be a resolve to “establish conditions which would facilitate access by their nationals to the collective resources of the Region on a non-discriminatory basis.” If Mr. Holder accepts and understands the intent and meaning of the RTC, he therefore cannot surmise that the current amnesty offered through the discretion of Barbados’ Prime Minister is ‘non-discriminatory’. The amnesty, in policy and practice, specifically targets ‘undocumented CARICOM immigrants’.

Further irony is illustrated by Mr. Holder, when he quotes Gordon K. Lewis in referring to “the unity, the shared sense of being West Indians.” Holder reflects Lewis’ position that speaks of the necessity to “meet particular problems in which all possess a felt concrete interest,” and yet Holder seems oblivious to Articles 187 through 189 of the RTC. Hence, I contend that the pre-emptive posture by the Prime Minister of Barbados could not be considered as keeping within the precincts of the RTC or as Holder suggests, Lewis’ mode of thinking for strengthening a CARICOM spirit.

Many of the circumstances and points outlined on the EU misrepresented the nature of EU immigration policies and the legal facilitation for free movement of people within the scope of that jurisdiction. Holder, writing to correct what he saw as misleading from Ricky Singh, states that “the right of freedom of movement” allow its citizens to “have the freedom to move within the EEA to work, study, or establish businesses.” What he does not say is that there are criteria in place and these are consistent with basic measures of human rights and justice. The most essential point though in regards of the EU’s model, that it legally recognises its membership in clear contrast to citizens of third countries.

Holder states that demands ought not to be made on Barbados to “accept the burdens associated with unacceptably high numbers of undocumented immigrants within its borders.” I agree that there are burdens associated with irregular migration, but I challenge the Government of Barbados and Mr. Holder to make public the statistical data that suggest the intensity of any burdens that now impact on Barbados. How can a government be seriously seeking to address a problem and there is not the co-requisite of supplying important data in respect of the challenges, burdens, and economic costs.

I ask Mr. Lindsay Holder four (4) questions:

  1. How much information has the Barbados Government supplied in recognition that these categories of legality and illegality coexists within the domain of immigration debates?
  2. Should the focus be on limiting those persons who may have normally qualified under the amnesty framework which has been in place as far back as 1995, or should emphasis be on finding solutions to the problems identified as requiring reform at the domestic level of the agency responsible for internal migration control?
  3. Would it not make more political currency to engage the public in Barbados, civil society, and regional publics such as corresponding Heads of Government on probable solutions to the problems that cause irregular migration and insecurity?
  4. Do Barbados and/or other CARICOM Member States have a moral duty and ethical challenge to ensure the humane treatment of Caribbean peoples?

I close by stating that Mr. Holder’s article makes an interesting read despite its faulty premises and some misleading statements. Nevertheless, it opens discussion on several fronts that are important for consideration. It nonetheless falls way short of the consistency that would lead to the essence of his summary. Holder summarises that managed migration is “best suited for protecting the rights of the immigrants,” and I do agree with the conclusion. I hope that he is not insinuating that the discriminatory policy and practice as being undertaken by the Government of Barbados will achieve this feat. I am seeing and hearing widespread fear and this will only serve to push persons underground making it more difficult to actually manage immigration challenges.

I too end by stating that persons who support the Government of Barbados’ position do not continue to demonise and criminalise those persons who make a contribution to this country regardless of if they are citizens, non-citizens, documented or undocumented. Let us debate the various positions and come to consensus on a way forward and means to manage immigration in Barbados and across CARICOM.


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  1. Open question:

    How can illegal immigrants / non-residents exploit the support systems here if they have to prepay for their use?

    Examples: QEH and schools.


  2. some believe that all it takes is 7,000 voters to change the government, do you think only 5,000-7,000 is responsible for mitigating wages down in certain sectors of the Barbados economy ? Whatever the number and makeup (legall or otherwise) of the migrant worker that has cause that to occur as reported by the IMF as far back as 2001, needs to be address in a managed way.

    …In 2007 Mia Mottley told us partly why mimimum wages was not a good idea.
    In 2007 she said:
    “Today the unemployment rate is low and whereas this government is committed to ensuring that every worker is allowed a decent wage by which he/she can pull themselves up the socio-economic ladder, we are also fully cognizant that a rash approach to minimum wage legislation may have the adverse effect on our current positive employment climate.

    MAY folks MAY. No mention of wages coming down due to what could be refered to as the “Hub cap theory” which in nutshell is “that if someone in Detroit wants $25.00 an hour to put on hubcaps, someone else WILL COME ALONG and offer to do it for much less.

    WILL COME ALONG, must be change to WILL BE IMPORTED, if it is to properly address what occurred in Barbados under the BLP.


  3. iWatchya // June 17, 2009 at 4:19 pm

    Open question:

    How can illegal immigrants / non-residents exploit the support systems here if they have to prepay for their use?

    Examples: QEH and schools.
    ===========================

    Who paid the medical bills for Simon Bossemple, an illegal guynese working in Barbados, after he lost both hands in an industrial accident?


  4. His employers insurance company?

    Surely his employer has purchased group health insurance for his employees?

    And if not why not?


  5. @iWatchya

    Minister of Education Ronald Jones recently disclosed that we have 2000 children in the system who are the result of an undocumented situation. If we remember correctly he begged the parents to step forward to start the process of getting regularized. We know that the law in Barbados is that ALL children MUST go to school. Of course the heartless Barbadian Head teachers have been accepting the children into the schools often times without the Ministry’s knowledge.

    We ask the question, aren’t tax dollars paying for the education of those children?

    We might add that the policy of the QEH is to attend a patient FIRST and try to collect fees AFTER.


  6. J // June 17, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    His employers insurance company?

    Surely his employer has purchased group health insurance for his employees?

    And if not why not?

    ————————————————-

    How likely is that to be the case? what is likely as it was reported, we had 14 Indians working for 10 dollars a day, there was no mention of health insurance. But I know the next step is to stymie the advance of my argument by a call for more facts about Mr Bossemple’s pay and benefits.


  7. The period from January 1, 1998 to May 31, 2009 is 137 months.

    If 70,000 illegal immigrants entered Barbados between January 1, 1998 and May 31, 2009 it would mean that illegal immigrants have been entering Barbados at the rate of 530 people per month every single month for the past 137 months.

    Am I the only person who has difficulty believing that number?


  8. @David
    “We know that the law in Barbados is that ALL children MUST go to school. Of course the heartless Barbadian Head teachers have been accepting the children into the schools often times without the Ministry’s knowledge.”
    ———————————————————
    The children are innocent and should NOT have to be punished or deprived of an education because of their parents’ ignorance or wrongdoings.

    Hats off to the Principals who try putting their feet into the shoes of those parents and find out that the shoes were extremely tight, and would they ever want to have to wear those shoes.


  9. Adrian Hinds:

    That is an emergency situation. Was she billed?

    Are you inferring that there are so many non-paying emergencies that our medical system is under strain?

    Would someone tell us what the ratio of non-residents to residents, using the emergency services is?

    The policy at the QEH is that there is no service unless you have a valid Barbados ID card. I had to show mine not so long ago.

    The non-residents have to pay the accounts department before any procedure is performed or medicine issued. This situation would be the norm in the majority of cases at the QEH.

    Maybe you can enlighten me as to where the real loophole is, as I do not see how the QEH could be under strain other than from mismanagement.


  10. @EyeSpy

    Are you aware that undocumented and unscrupulous others who are aware that having children might provide leverage for their plight deliberately create a business by having these children?


  11. Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2008 at 10:49 am

    A couple years ago in Barbados an illegal Guyanese worker lost both arms in an accident that occurred on a work site belonging to Mrs Ram. Mr.Bosemple was hospitalize at our QEH, he had no insurance did not pay into NIS and therefore became a ward of the state, meaning that he was, until then, nothing more than a profit center for his bajan employers, and became a burden to taxpayers as a result of his injuries. This is one way that illegal immigrants become a burden. The other is in an economic downturn.


  12. David you ask “We ask the question, aren’t tax dollars paying for the education of those children?”

    If these children were born in Barbados are they not Barbadians?

    And if these children are 11 now, won’t some of them be working tax paying adults in 5 years time? or 10 years time. And can’t we asume that they like me will contine paying income taxes for 49 years and property tax and VAT for the rest of their lives


  13. David wrote “Are you aware that undocumented and unscrupulous others who are aware that having children might provide leverage for their plight deliberately create a business by having these children?”

    And no doubt many, many Bajans are only too happy to help in the baby making business.

    Wha’ happen to you? You want to spoil we fun.


  14. @J

    First of all let us make known that your poker-state comments are not fooling the BU household but we will humour you:

    We made the point about 2000 children from undocumented parents in response to a commenter who wanted to know how the school system is being taxed by illegals. These children represent an indicator which is symptomatic of something greater. Hope that’s clear for you?

    We urge you to relax and engage the BU family without the preoccupation to mask your submissions.


  15. iWatchya ha ha ha indeed this is the new BLP campaign to call for STATISTICS in attempt a comeback from the seemingly bottomless pit Mia’s leadership keeps them.

    UM is just politics they play. Pragmatism was vulgar when the DLP called for a mimimum wage, no statistics were needed then Mia suggested that “rash” or rushing apparently was the only way to institute a mimimum wage in 2007, and that it MAY cause UNINTENDED consequences. Where was the proof then???? Anyway I know the people will get sick and when they do they MAY need medical attention, and it is not “RASH” or rush, to include migrant workers.


  16. So Adrian what is stopping the government from collecting from Mr. Bossemple’s employer?

    After all if my employee was injured on my job site I believe that I must be made to bear at least some of the liability.

    Surely some government agency should be insisting that employers have a “duty of care” towards their employees.

    If the case is as you say I would certainly like to see the matter tested in the courts.


  17. Dear david:

    As Negroman is never tired of reminding me I am old and past “it”, and indeed in that he speaks the truth.

    But somebody has to speak up for those who are still young enough to have fun.


  18. Adrian Hinds:

    You have not addressed my comment…and I find that you are quick to paint everyone with the same brush, just because they have a different point of view.

    Very childish. I came to debate… it really shows that you really prefer scratch grain.

    According to you we do not need statistics…? Really?

    Amazing! Maybe we should cut the funding for tertiary education… would the yard fowls be happy then?

    Of course we do not need statistics! In fact we do not need educated minds to run a country!

    How would you run a country without proper empirical data? Maybe just lick ones thumb and hold it up?


  19. @ David

    Let me put the monkey back on your back… I’m sure that you know very well that there are undocumented and unscrupulous Bajans living in other countries having children with the hopes of providing leverage for their plight.

    It’s more likely than not that tax payers of other countries did at one time or the other, and may still be on-going having to pay for the education of undocumented bajans’ children. Barbados may not be driving its citizens out of its country, but there are Barbadians who may have also caused financial burden to other countries; at least one country that many of us are aware – U S of A.


  20. @ livinginbarbados
    The number might be important to you quote … “if given my interest” they are not to me, I will let that rest.

    Make no mistake, what we have in Barbados now is greater than the illegal immigration issue.

    There is a “mental revolution” taking place and at the core of it, is a fight for the hearts and minds of Barbadians. The people have made their feelings known and the Prime Minister David Thompson and his Government have taken cognizance of that fact.

    A few of the patrician guards are thinking how dare they – the plebeians – have the audacity to “think” and express their opinions…the patricians are surely discomfited.


  21. In this region LIAT flies Dash-8 aircraft. The smallest Dash-8’s seat 37 people and the largest seats 79.

    In order to bring 70,000 illegal immigrants to Barbados over the past 137 months would require 14 flights a month every single month using the smaller aircraft or 6 flights a month using thelarger aircraft, and this would not include the flights required for the legal workers, legal mmigrants, tourists, World Cup cricket fans etc.

    Do the airlines in the region realy have the capacity to move that many people?


  22. @EyeSpy

    You state the obvious. All countries continue to battle illegal immigration especially those countries with prosperous economies. The fact that we have have illegal Bajans burdening the American system does not stop the Barbados government from proactively managing an illegal immigrant issue. Bare in mind that this government has inherited an immigration department with an inefficient MIS. Barbados like other countries receive Bajans from the USA who are routinely deported criminals and all who have spent almost the majority of their lifes in the US. The point is that because some Bajan illegals slip through the USA continues to manage its immigration policy to detect and deport. We will not even forward the argument that the USA is a resource rich country on which undocumented workers will impact differently.

    @Watchya

    We have confidence in the Prime Minister who as Chairman of the Cabinet sub-committee has indicated from the floor of parliament that he will reveal the relevant information in due course. As citizens we will have to hold his feet to the fire on this promise in due course.


  23. @J

    Your argument is flawed simply because you and others have concluded that ALL undocumented workers in Barbados WILL be deported. The purpose of the amnesty id to allow undocumented workers to get regularized. Of course the pimps and prostitutes may not make the cut but isn’t that the point?


  24. David

    you wrote ” Minister of Education Ronald Jones recently disclosed that we have 2000 children in the system who are the result of an undocumented situation.”

    THIS IS UNTRUE! YOU HAVE MISQUOTED THE MINISTER!

    What was reported in the Nation newspaper on 6/7/2009 was as follows:

    A CALL has been made for all CARICOM immigrants in Barbados to get their status regularised in light of there being over 2 000 non-nationals in the island’s school system, 227 of whom sat last month’s Barbados Secondary Schools’ Entrance (11-Plus) Exam.

    Minister of Education Ronald Jones said on Friday these students were in the system because they had been “granted some kind of status”, and therefore adult non-nationals should follow suit.

    “We have over 2 000 persons in the school system and they don’t have to run and hide because they have the appropriate status,”

    So according to the Minister these students are “documented”. The Minister did not say that these children were the children of illegal or undocumented immigrants. In fact I understood Minister Jones to be speaking to illegal immigrants to come forward and regularize their status so that “you can enjoy the social benefits of Barbados,” he (Jones) urged.”

    The parents of non- nationals are paying the requisite school fees and are not enjoying a free ride as some on this blog are untruthfully writing!

    Non nationals are also not getting free service at the QEH or at the polyclinics.


  25. No David I was talking about how the alleged 70,000 illegal immigrants got here. I have a real problem with that number. I believe that it is pure fiction.

    But oh yes now that you have reminded me, if there are indeed 70,000 illegal immigrants in Barbados do you and Scout and others understand that it will take 6 to 14 flights a month for 137 months to deport them all?

    But maybe there are not 70,00 illegal immigrants and maybe the whole illegal immigration discussion is fake.


  26. @Eyespy

    • Let me put the monkey back on your back… I’m sure that you know very well that there are undocumented and unscrupulous Bajans living in other countries having children with the hopes of providing leverage for their plight.

    ************************************
    What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Are you trying to say that the B’dos Gov’t shouldn’t do anything about illegal immigrants in Barbados because there may be Barbadians living illegally in other countries? That’s a load of crock. Do you know of any Government that allow citizens of other countries to break its laws without penalty because its own citizens may be breaking the law of another country?.


  27. @J

    No David I was talking about how the alleged 70,000 illegal immigrants got here. I have a real problem with that number. I believe that it is pure fiction
    *************************************
    How many illegal immigrants are there in Canada? How many illegal immigrants are there in the USA?
    The Canadian Gov’t doesn’t know and neither does the US Gov’t. They both use estimates from various sources and the numbers vary spectacularly according to the source cited. I use the two countries because of their vast resources and their stringent control at their points of entry, is it any wonder that the numbers in Barbados will also vary? So it is immaterial whether there are 70,000 or 7000 the question is: Are there in Barbados illegally?

    Stop with the nonsensical musings about LIATand the capacity of Dash 8s…. Unless you are interested in becoming a pilot

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html

    http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/422383


  28. J // June 17, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    But maybe there are not 70,00 illegal immigrants and maybe the whole illegal immigration discussion is FAKE.
    ———————————————–

    You fuh real? ha ha ha ha ha ha lol!


  29. iWatchya // June 17, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Adrian Hinds:

    You have not addressed my comment…and I find that you are quick to paint everyone with the same brush, just because they have a different point of view.

    Very childish.
    =========================

    You are right and I am wrong, I am childish and you are mature and very adult. You win I lose.


  30. George looks like how he sounds when I hear him ranting on the call-in programs. I hear he is married to a Guyanese. Give it five years and he will see the light when he suffers the same fate as some other Bajan fools.


  31. Adrian Hinds:

    Thank you for your capitulation.

    I look forward to a mature discussion with you in the near future.


  32. iWatchya // June 18, 2009 at 8:57 am

    Adrian Hinds:

    Thank you for your capitulation.

    I look forward to a mature discussion with you in the near future.
    ————————————————-

    ha ha ha ha I am a Child at heart and hope to remain so for a long time. If successfull , childish I will always be. At any rate, I can never be your kind of mature. My, so-called capitulation, was due to an unwillingness to further dissect your “organize” call for STATISTICS on Immigrant use of our emergency service, as I continue to believe such was intended to be a response of objection to what I stated as a predictable off shoot of illegal immigration. Yours, seems to be a call of wait until it is occuring, prove it with STATISTICS, then proceed to rectify. My approach is to rely on known trends from other societies with regards to their liberal immigration policies, use the one or two known cases locally and say lets nip this is in the bud, we know where this is going to end up. How we nip it is open to suggestion, but nip it we must.

    So you might want to look elsewhere. ha ha ha lol!

    All one has to do is visit Normangirvan website to get a sense of the next objectional approach of the Caribbean Academics/Socialist/BLP/Mia nexus. The two current approaches is to frame their replies in call for statistics, and to seemly be concern about Bajans immigrant status in the diaspora.

    Is suplifirous a real word????? if it isn’t and therefore does not have a meaning then i think i would have use it correctly to define your approach. ha ha ha


  33. @ Adrian Hinds // June 18, 2009 at 9:43 am

    I repeat: “According to you we do not need statistics…? Really?”

    I am merely asking where the figures are.

    There must be something tangible that we are making decisions with.

    Of course, this argument is going over your head. I do apologise… as you would rather lump me in with the BLP than actually discuss a point intelligently.

    I am sure that discerning folk on this blog are tired of DLP yard fowls constantly trying to belittle people with differing ideas.

    Maybe they do not have the ability to argue a point without the personal detritus?


  34. Adrian Hinds:

    I think that the word you may be looking for is superfluous.

    Have a good day and many blessings.


  35. • How can illegal immigrants / non-residents exploit the support systems here if they have to prepay for their use?
    —————————————

    I responded by asking who paid for an illegal immigrant medical bill

    ——————————————
    • Adrian Hinds // June 17, 2009 at 4:38 pm
    iWatchya // June 17, 2009 at 4:19 pm
    Open question:
    How can illegal immigrants / non-residents exploit the support systems here if they have to prepay for their use?
    Examples: QEH and schools.
    ===========================
    Who paid the medical bills for Simon Bossemple, an illegal guynese working in Barbados, after he lost both hands in an industrial accident?
    Clearly not exploitation of the support services, but they were use nevertheless, and as such a cost wa incurred. The patient was in no position to pay and there was no evidence that the company he worked for did on his behalf.
    ———————————————-

    You responded, predictably, with further questions

    • iWatchya // June 17, 2009 at 5:16 pm
    Adrian Hinds:
    That is an emergency situation. Was she billed?
    Are you inferring that there are so many non-paying emergencies that our medical system is under strain?

    ————————————————
    Here you added two further questions to exclude my pointed response to your first, that you may have thought they were no answers too. You were wrong and hence these additional questions. The fluff you added about QEH policy regarding who pays may have been an attempt to deny the evidence of the case I cited. The fact remains he was there and did not pay. Emergency does not change the cost factor. However, I would think that humanness with which some are demanding must be applied to the removal of illegal immigrants occurred in this case. I never infer what you contend. What I am saying is that it can happen and we must not allow it too.

    So let us recap. You did not at first ask for figures, it was an after thought dare I say, base on my response to your first question. It was great and direct answer I know. It was not my intent to answer your subsequent two questions. However, if I wanted to as I have said results of what can occur to support services because of liberal immigration policies can be found in those societies that have practice of open door immigration long before the Barbados Labor party instituted it. Why wait for it to occur here? Why wait until there are locally available statistics to a situation that can only have one outcome no matter where it occurs? If you do not contribute to the system or is barred in other ways from using the system (QEH policy) without paying, does not translate into an immigrant not getting sick and requiring the services of the system, and no Humane medical facility, and it’s Physicians adhering to their Hippocratic oath would turn away a nonpaying sick person.

    Is not of concern to you that your whole argument rest on a question you did not ask first?


  36. Adrian Hinds // June 18, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    Well put and I agree in part.

    I agree with the GOB policy. It is the execution that causing problems.

    We the people need to know what sort of figures we are dealing with. How much of an impact is the illegal immigrancy having on the resources on this island and what is the estimated costs of repatriation.

    The government needs to know these figures if they really want to manage the situation properly.

    They may have to intutute visa fees or such to partially cover the costs… (yet that may fly in the face of CARICOM)

    We have a situation where xenephobia is flurishing. We have to stop the pannic before the situation explodes.


  37. The way to deal with it is to stop it now then manage it going forward before it does become burden to the society. Collecting statistics that Mia could not give us in 2005 is to waste time and only allows the illegal population to grow. A manage migration process with a starting point of regularizing those the fit the requirements, deporting those that don’t, and monitoring entry simultaniously is the best approach.

    Where is your statistics that xenephobia is flurishing?

    BTW I am still a child. lol! I tend to speak things as I see um. ha ha ha ha


  38. 5 years he beats that woman alllll the time!

    I CANNOT STAND GEORGE BRATHWAITE!

    He gets drunk and makes his wife run for cover! Her family detests him!

    He is an imbecile!


  39. Anonymous // June 18, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    5 years he beats that woman alllll the time!

    I CANNOT STAND GEORGE BRATHWAITE!

    He gets drunk and makes his wife run for cover! Her family detests him!

    He is an imbecile!
    ————————————————–

    Now I luv gossip as much as any other bajan, but seriously though, we do not need to know about George alleged weakness and insurities to defeat him in the realm of facts and ideas on the issue of immigration in Barbados in the context of Trini and Guyanese indics. We can clearly win, as the facts and realities are on our side.

  40. mash up & buy back Avatar
    mash up & buy back

    Tony marshall has been quoting lindsay holder’s piece on immigration almost every day.

    Carl moore recommends it highly.

    Every one is talking about this well written piece.

    Now it seems VOB will be discussing immigration on Sunday Brasstacks.

    The P.M. is also going to be on People’s and Profile at 9:30 a.m. on VOB this sunday too.

    Just like we are seeing in Iran,the power of a people united for a purpose can achieve a lot.

    The BLP will learn that to their peril.


  41. Did the Guyanese woman marry old Georgie for his looks good looks, or did she see a good opportunity to live here?
    He will know in a few more years. So all this bad-mouthing of government’s immigration policy George does on the radio will bite him one day. Barbados’s new expert on government policies George Brathwaite…ha ha ha


  42. Boy George looks like a brother to writer Hartley Henry , good writers yeah, but we Bajans dont like what we see when we look into the mirror. Instead we should be smiling back at the image in the mirror. What mirror image do we have of ourselves. Are we braying jackasses with blinkers on our faces ?


  43. Adrian Hinds // June 18, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    “Where is your statistics that xenephobia is flurishing? ”

    I am using the same technique that you taught me! LOL

    Through casual observation and many many many run-ins with prejuced people who would happily tell you all about the subject of immigrants.

    When yuh hear dat a bank brek… “It musse a X!” … and in the next breath you hear… “De best X is a dead X!!”

    I have people in my family who are extremely prejudiced against “dem foreigners!”

    It also helps to chat with non-residents and find out about their experiences for yourself.


  44. ha ha so Gully Boar as a member of “WE” what do you see when you look?

    @iWatchya:
    Wait this child teaching you now? ha ha. Anyway I shall ignore your call for statistics going forward, cause you have none to back up your claims. We even!


  45. iWatchya wrote

    “The government needs to know these figures if they really want to manage the situation properly…They may have to intutute visa fees or such to partially cover the costs… (yet that may fly in the face of CARICOM)…We have a situation where xenephobia is flurishing. We have to stop the pannic before the situation explodes.”

    So now a government’s policy must be made on the basis of appeasing the most bad behaved and xenophobic of its citizens?

    Isn’t that like giving a child whatever it sees and wants in the store so that it won’t cry and behave badly?

    No wonder we in trouble.

    Stupseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  46. Well the poor Guyanese woman must be marry he just to live there, in fact I would marry he just to live there myself as the country is the best thing after England, plus who knows, one could meet some nice roesey tourist and be taken back to a rich rich country.

    I am Guyanese and I do love Guyana with all my heart, but by the same token I have finally come to understand the situation there, and I feel a difficult identification with my fellow Guyanese there since I too live a country other than my beloved Guyana. I would have hoped that there would have sprung up a blog (similar to BU) in Guyana asking the simple question of what we should do regarding our people leaving our country to settle illegally in another country, but no, not one Guyanese has taken it upon themself to create a blog to address this issue, but there are lots of foolish Guyanese blogs addressing living in Guyana, Guyana come back, we love Guyana, Guyana is we country you know, and so on.

    You mention xenophobia, I am in shock at this one, we are 350 miles away from each other, how different can we be, most Guyanese are African or part African, so this amazes me, since as you can see we are all people of colour. And yes J your analogy is right on target, regarding giving the child what it wants so it would not cry, and I am able to see the asymmetrical relationship between our two countries due to this current crisis.


  47. J
    It is not giving a child what he wants to stop that child from crying. It is giving what belongs to the child which the child is being deprived of. This is Barbados, this is our country, who the hell is you to want to dictate policy to me and my government. Go have an appointment with Jagdeo, tell him to clean up his act and start rebuilding Guyana instead of you wanting to pull down Barbados to the deprived, delapidated state Guyana is in right now.All you guyanese who are fleeing to Barbados, should be treated as political refugees


  48. Well yes Scout, and for a Barbadian you certainly have an unusual level of insight into our country Guyana, which makes me suspect that you are a Guyanese and as such one of the political refugees. I know, you going to fire back at me, but Scout I see us as family, we are family, so what a difficult thing it is for me to condemn my own people and to understand you all, my greater family.

  49. TheTallestBoy Avatar

    Anonymous // June 19, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Well yes Scout, and for a Barbadian you certainly have an unusual level of insight into our country Guyana, which makes me suspect that you are a Guyanese and as such one of the political refugees. I know, you going to fire back at me, but Scout I see us as family, we are family, so what a difficult thing it is for me to condemn my own people and to understand you all, my greater family
    ==============================

    If the above is truly the sincere comments of a guyanese citizen, then it is a little bit easier to believe that Guyana is indeed a fail state.

  50. mash up & buy back Avatar
    mash up & buy back

    David

    If you read that nasty rag called the nation sunday sun you will see that the guyanese editor roxanne gibbs has chosen the 3 most inflamatory stories from the starbroek newspaper of 3 illegal guyanese who were deported.

    I notice that norman faria and people like george brathwaite has gotten the media and other influential persons not to refer to them now as illegals but as undocumented,however I digress;

    A ll patriotic bajans reading this must make their voices heard because what VOB,Nation newspaper,BLP & mottley,george brathwaite ,annalee davis,ricky singh norman girvan,basdeo jagdeo,peter simmons and the like are doing is to make this region and perhaps they are hoping also the wider world – be so anti bajan because after all even the own bajans are saying how inhumane they are by their treatment of illegal guyanese.

    So that wherever bajans travel throughout the region they will be met with this strong anti bajan animosity.

    Why do roxanne gibbs only print inflamatory lies that guyanese are saying back in guyana when even norman faria posting in the starbrok as Reddy also accuses the guyanese woman’s reports of being lies.

    Imagine this woman says if she did not have her plane fare she will have to stay in prison and work until she accumulated her fare.

    Imagine she says that bajan immigration officers are paying a $100.00 dollars to identify illegal guyanese.

    My RESOLVE IS FIRM ,I KNOW THAT IN THE LONG RUN ROXANNE GIBBS AND OTHER UNGRATEFUL GUYANESE AND ALL THOSE WHO WISH BARBADOS NO GOOD WILL FIND RETRIBITION FACING THEM AT THEIR DOORS.

    One day coming soon.

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