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GBrathwaite_portrait
Submitted by George Brathwaite, PhD Candidate (International Politics)/On The Map

I do not intend to be lengthy in this critique to Mr. Lindsay Holder’s contribution in the Advocate newspaper of 14-15 June 2009 . I am well aware that each of us brings our biases to any project. I also believe that one ought to be sufficiently reflexive and admit to pertinent antecedents that may have an impact on the ways in which arguments are framed, analysed, and disseminated. My position is that of a Caribbean researcher who has been widely influenced by the shapers of postcolonial discourses and by the architects of Caribbean regional integration. Moreover, I have been exposed to a way of life and a thinking that suggests I should love my neighbour as I love myself.

A meandering diatribe that was published in the Sunday Advocate of 14 June 2009, and continued in the Monday edition of the Advocate and which is authored by Lindsay Holder served little in clearing away misunderstandings on ‘immigration policies and the status of immigrants’, if to do so was his primary intent. In this lengthy polemic, Mr. Holder appears more to be attempting to resolve his personal sentiments and advance his patriotic stance in favour of Barbados, than examine the “current issues that provoke discussion,” or provide a basis for managed migration. With all of the many complexities that surround the issue of immigration and more particularly, Barbados’ response to ‘unacceptably high’ numbers of undocumented CARICOM immigrants, Mr. Holder proceeded to exhibit a forlorn dismissal of facts and empirical data.

Surely any well-reasoned analysis would at least make an attempt to provide relevant statistical data that can substantiate arguments being advanced. Mr. Holder prefers to follow the position of the Government of Barbados by relying on “casual observation” on which to determine that “the level of undocumented immigration is unacceptably high.” The sentiments in that statement alone appear to be sullied by bigotry: even if one could make a distinction based on race or ethnicity, how does one come to the conclusion that persons observed at any one point in time and place are undocumented CARICOM immigrants? Isn’t there an ‘Indo-population’ in Barbados originating from Trinidad and Tobago and also from the Asian continent?

It is problematic that Mr. Holder commenced his arguments on the basis that governments make a distinct policy direction by either opting for ‘more liberal immigration policies’ or ‘less liberal policies’. While I do agree to some extent that there has been an identifiable trend that liberal democracies have expanded their rules giving liberal expression to the political and social inclusion of migrants, I will contend that Holder’s starting point is myopic. It is misleading since there are other coexistent requirements to be considered besides the extent to which liberality can be raised as the fundamental principle for states making accommodation for the entry of migrants into their economies.

Mr. Holder in a dichotomous manner, goes on to suggest that by applying an ‘optimal approach’ to matters of immigration policies, the Government of Barbados would in fact be basing such policies on “economic realities as well as some social considerations.” I believe that Mr. Holder’s interesting but ungrounded starting points have turned a blind eye to legal, moral, and ethical considerations. Barbados is a sovereign state, and it has voluntarily become a signatory to several international conventions and/or bilateral and multilateral arrangements (i.e. CARICOM; UN; and the ILO among others). Certainly these must have a bearing when a country seeks to determine more or less liberal policies.

This brings me to a fundamental area of departure with Mr. Holder. In one of his several superficial arguments, Holder fails to acknowledge that Barbados’ dependence on migration (inward and outward) long preceded “the last 10 to 15 years … to satisfy the demand for labour” in the sectors he outlined. I grew up in an area of Barbados that is still today considered a major agricultural salvation for Barbados. I remember the many hundreds of persons that came annually to ‘cut canes’ in Barbados. Many of them remained here ‘undocumented’, and they brought in other family members along with friends via the underground nature of social networks.

Holder argues that “the upper limit to the number of immigrants that a country can sustain depends on the geographical size of the country,” and I counter that it is as big a myth as Holder’s connected assertion that “immigration benefits countries that are under-populated, have ageing populations, or that have labour shortages in some economic sectors.” Surely these cannot be the over-riding criteria upon which immigration policies are fashioned, and neither can these be the sole considerations when a country seeks to adhere to international conventions that encourage the rights and dignity of the human being regardless of status. Moreover, and according to many of the multilateral institutions, “immigration benefits as well as affects all countries” some more than others.

Perhaps the greatest irony in Mr. Holder’s submission rests upon a dichotomous understanding as it relates to the history of CARICOM, the spirit of CARICOM, and Barbados’ leadership and participation in CARICOM. Regretfully, Holder posits that Barbados is “being painted as the main villain impeding the implementation of freedom of movement for CARICOM nationals,” when he knows full well as he did indicate that “Barbados has fully complied with the existing freedom of movement provisions of the CSME Treaty.” In attempting to raise his proud boast of Barbados (for which I also share), Holder conflates the issues of freedom of movement with unregulated immigration; unregulated migration is not a requirement under the RTC.

The RTC at Article 45 does speak to the ambition that “Member States commit themselves to the goal of free movement of their nationals within the Community,” and this is in keeping with an underlying premise that there will be further momentum to “enlarge, as appropriate, the classes of persons entitled to move and work freely in the Community” (Article 46 (a)). In essence, the RTC has set the framework for a spirit of cross-border and functional cooperation with the understanding by CARICOM Member States that there will be a resolve to “establish conditions which would facilitate access by their nationals to the collective resources of the Region on a non-discriminatory basis.” If Mr. Holder accepts and understands the intent and meaning of the RTC, he therefore cannot surmise that the current amnesty offered through the discretion of Barbados’ Prime Minister is ‘non-discriminatory’. The amnesty, in policy and practice, specifically targets ‘undocumented CARICOM immigrants’.

Further irony is illustrated by Mr. Holder, when he quotes Gordon K. Lewis in referring to “the unity, the shared sense of being West Indians.” Holder reflects Lewis’ position that speaks of the necessity to “meet particular problems in which all possess a felt concrete interest,” and yet Holder seems oblivious to Articles 187 through 189 of the RTC. Hence, I contend that the pre-emptive posture by the Prime Minister of Barbados could not be considered as keeping within the precincts of the RTC or as Holder suggests, Lewis’ mode of thinking for strengthening a CARICOM spirit.

Many of the circumstances and points outlined on the EU misrepresented the nature of EU immigration policies and the legal facilitation for free movement of people within the scope of that jurisdiction. Holder, writing to correct what he saw as misleading from Ricky Singh, states that “the right of freedom of movement” allow its citizens to “have the freedom to move within the EEA to work, study, or establish businesses.” What he does not say is that there are criteria in place and these are consistent with basic measures of human rights and justice. The most essential point though in regards of the EU’s model, that it legally recognises its membership in clear contrast to citizens of third countries.

Holder states that demands ought not to be made on Barbados to “accept the burdens associated with unacceptably high numbers of undocumented immigrants within its borders.” I agree that there are burdens associated with irregular migration, but I challenge the Government of Barbados and Mr. Holder to make public the statistical data that suggest the intensity of any burdens that now impact on Barbados. How can a government be seriously seeking to address a problem and there is not the co-requisite of supplying important data in respect of the challenges, burdens, and economic costs.

I ask Mr. Lindsay Holder four (4) questions:

  1. How much information has the Barbados Government supplied in recognition that these categories of legality and illegality coexists within the domain of immigration debates?
  2. Should the focus be on limiting those persons who may have normally qualified under the amnesty framework which has been in place as far back as 1995, or should emphasis be on finding solutions to the problems identified as requiring reform at the domestic level of the agency responsible for internal migration control?
  3. Would it not make more political currency to engage the public in Barbados, civil society, and regional publics such as corresponding Heads of Government on probable solutions to the problems that cause irregular migration and insecurity?
  4. Do Barbados and/or other CARICOM Member States have a moral duty and ethical challenge to ensure the humane treatment of Caribbean peoples?

I close by stating that Mr. Holder’s article makes an interesting read despite its faulty premises and some misleading statements. Nevertheless, it opens discussion on several fronts that are important for consideration. It nonetheless falls way short of the consistency that would lead to the essence of his summary. Holder summarises that managed migration is “best suited for protecting the rights of the immigrants,” and I do agree with the conclusion. I hope that he is not insinuating that the discriminatory policy and practice as being undertaken by the Government of Barbados will achieve this feat. I am seeing and hearing widespread fear and this will only serve to push persons underground making it more difficult to actually manage immigration challenges.

I too end by stating that persons who support the Government of Barbados’ position do not continue to demonise and criminalise those persons who make a contribution to this country regardless of if they are citizens, non-citizens, documented or undocumented. Let us debate the various positions and come to consensus on a way forward and means to manage immigration in Barbados and across CARICOM.


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  1. We discussed earlier that the issue of immigration often gets interwoven with being patriotic. It is normal and not emotional for a country like Barbados whose enviable and enduring quality has been its political and social stability. The unfettered influx of unskilled immigrants especially from sources where political and social tensions have frozen into an innate behaviour has started to concern Barbadians and RIGHTLY so.

    The PR campaign being waged by narrow interest in the region AND Barbados must be exposed for what it is and we MAY have more to write about this in the coming days and weeks. Yes BU family this is a fight for the kind of country WE want and We must be prepared to bunker down and bring our best arguments to the table to inform the debate. So far the academics have been prepared “to deepened” the debate around the issue of regionalism and CSME. BU prefers the more commonsense approach to separate the issues of sovereignty and the regionalist argument. Currently the debate is being immersed in CSME considerations rather than a right of any country to protect its borders and its way of life. 


  2. Mash Up & Buy Back. There is every reason to believe that such a chosen alias is consistent with your apparent destructive nature.
    I know George Brathwaite very well. He has his shortcomings same as any other human being. However, I know that he is one of the most genuine persons one would ever meet. I also know that he is a very proud Barbadian notwithstanding any challenges he has faced over the years. It is ridiculous what you and others are saying. I have read a few of his articles, and nowhere do I see any attempt to put down Barbados. As far as I see, he raises attention to some things relevant to the issue at hand. In today’s paper, I see that Jeff Cumberbatch has touched on some of those issues. So pray tell me, what is George Brathwaite saying that makes him unpatriotic or a demon of some kind. Why try to destroy a man who is making strides in his own way, and in a way that does not trample people. Maybe you want to make the claim down the road that you were able to ‘mash up & buy back.’ I am sorry, deal with the issues and express your democratic views. In doin so you would not be sending the message that Barbados does not tolerate views that sit outside of what the Government says. Freedom of speech once not derogatory, defamatory, or libelous remain hallmarks in Barbados. Three cheers to George, I wish more persons were as forthright as he is rather than hiding behind aliases and assinine comments.

  3. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    The lines of this discussion have been drawn some time ago

    “We discussed earlier that the issue of immigration often gets interwoven with being patriotic. It is normal and not emotional for a country like Barbados whose enviable and enduring quality has been its political and social stability.”

    “The PR campaign being waged by narrow interest in the region AND Barbados must be exposed for what it is and we MAY have more to write about this in the coming days and weeks.”

    It is both normal AND emotional…They are not alternatives, as if emotions are abnormal. People are emotional that’s why the debates on this blog, for example, quickly degenerate into personal insults and invective.

    Your portrayal of the debate is disingenuous. There are narrow interests on both sides. It makes to sense to talk about concerns for regional issues (eg CSME) as narrow (whether you like them or not) and concerns about national issues as broad. That’s not logical. If regionalism is to be meaningful then the narrow national view has to be subsumed. Now, if the national will is not in favour of broader regional policies, then that is another matter (as has been the case for the UK and Norway with regard to the EU, for example).


  4. Yes the lines were drawn a while back. But it wasn’t only along the lines of patriotism. It was also along the lines of racism as well. Do you agree?

    How do those who favour regionalism get past the national interest that does not? So far theirs has been to demean the challengers as xenophobic, has this help?


  5. @livingin barbados June 21, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Quote: …”if regionalism is to be meaningful then the narrow national view has to be subsumed”…

    It would do Barbados and Barbadians no good whatsoever “if regionalism in being meaningful has to float on the back of Barbados and as a result Barbados “sinks.” How can that help Barbados and Barbadians?


  6. There is hope, there is Minister Maxine McClean.


  7. @ Yardbroom,It simply doesn’t & any right thinking citizen of Barbados would know this.We as Bajans will simply not go on the wayside to give up sovereignty for any ‘regionalism’.

    The ‘regionalists’ also appear to mixing their message yet again just like CSME=ILLEGAL immigration in this debate,Caricom is NOW considered a Supra-state by the regionalists instead of a Community of Sovereign states it is just really becoming pathetic.

  8. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds
    Agree your first statement. I think there is both patriotism and racism deep in the discussions. I think people need to be honest about that and stand by their positions, not pretend otherwise.

    I’m a bit pedantic and would not necessarily choose ‘xenophobia’ to describe those who are not in favour of regionalism. I would call them conservative, ie preferring the status quo, which means a real resistance to things national having second place to things supra-national. You can’t be in a club or team and pick and choose which bits of the rules you like. That applies to all countries, not just Barbados, and the region needs to figure out if it wants to be one or remain parts.

  9. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Yardbroom
    Your question is well posed and as I said essentially to Adrian Hinds that is a questions Barbadians need to address in all its forms, not just on immigration.


  10. BU was somewhat disappointed on how the program this morning flowed but we are happy that there is national debate being brought to this issue. We agree that we must be careful to separate policy related issues to those operational.

    For example, the first farmer (Paul Davis) framed his contribution in emotion and his point was diluted. The second farmer agreed with the first that the processing of work permits has been slow but he framed the argument in a more dispassionate way citing the need to have an efficient work permit processing if the agriculture industry is to strive.

    We want to challenge a statement by PS Greaves who in a comment regarding the misuse of student permits to UWI Cave Hill students revealed that the immigration department was reliant on the UWI to advise on the status of UWI students issued with permits. We don’t agree Mr. Greave, the onus should be on the immigration department to check the status of student visas his unit would have issued. For example in many countries around the world the student has to submit in conjunction with the educational institution renewal information to ensure or support a reissue of visa.

    Unfortunately the commonsense contribution by Lindsay Holder were not featured enough but that is to be expected. We might venture to suggest this is input probably resonated with Barbadians more than most. It is unfortunate the program was diluted by VOB airing the views of unsubstantiated contributions and squashed the contributions of Minister McClean and Jeff Cumberbatch into an unreasonably small time frame. It was even more alarming that Jeff Cumberbatch who is a university lecturer could not grasp the simple point made by Lindsay Holder that trained statisticians can use observation used in the correct way to make valid inferences. It is unfortunate that Mr. Holder could not develop this point and he might take the opportunity to expand this matter and submit to the press to further inform on this matter.

    The last but not least issue is the interview carried in Jamaica which featured Professor Norman Girvan a so called academic and Ananalee Davis a videographer who has been doing her best to portray Barbados is the worst way. Based on the contributions we have heard here is a woman who continues to confuse government policy from operational efficiency. This became blatantly obvious when for Minister confided to Barbados that files she signed off on in November last year are now being processed by the immigration unit. This obviously speaks to a human resource problem and MUST be responded to by government.

    We have decided to ignore Norman Faria who continues to do nothing to advance the debate. The question which Ellis could have easily posed to him was which interest controls the established media in Guyana? If the answer is the government then Faria could have been asked why doesn’t the government intervene to deflate the rhetoric which is being played out in the newspapers in Guyana.


  11. That’s Jeff Cumberbatch, David, not Jeff Broome. Statisticians can determine whether a person is an alien and whether he/she is undocumented? Please tell me how!

    And why do you call Professor Girvan a so-called academic? Because he does not agree with you?

  12. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    First, the discussion was disappointing, but as one who has been on radio panels here and/or tried to contribute such discussions, they rarely deliver.

    Second, let’s stop this dismissive approach with remarks about people like Prof. Girvan as ‘so-called’ academics as if the man is a charlatan. Just say you disagree with his view. I would not call Lindsay Holder a ‘so-called economist’ just so that I can dismiss his remarks.

    Points to consider:
    If Norman Faria’s remarks are viewed as inflammatory by the Government of Barbados (or even the Government of Guyana) he can be removed or asked to be removed, or be deemed ‘persona non grata’. Let’s interpret the lack of such requests as indicating that for now he has not overstepped any diplomatic marks as far as either government is concerned.

    Sen. McLean mentioned statistics being available, prepared, etc. and cited not one figure. Did I miss something?

    Sen. McLean also mentioned policy as if any government monitors its application and ensures it’s in line all the time. That’s exactly what we are hearing with a policy on immigration that has not been followed.

    Anecdotes of people of what happened to them when they were sitting by the pool at the Georgetown Pegasus do not cut it, for me, any more than unsubstantiated reports of people being mistreated by officials. If the best that can be offered are these stories, let’s give everyone a chance to contribute their experiences. I will do my survey form.

    What I find interesting and I will look again at what he wrote is that Lindsay Holder seems to say that his ‘casual observations’ are valid, but others’ casual observations are less so.

    Tired an in need of time to enjoy Father’s Day, and wishing all the other fathers as pleasant a day.


  13. @LIB and Themes

    Thanks for the correction on Jeff Cumberbatch versus Jeff Broome.

    We did not understand Lindsay Holder to have said that inference through the use of statistical observation can point to an illegal immigrant. Did you? This argument is mute anyway given Minister Maxine McClean’s intervention who confirmed based on her eyeballing of the data that Barbados is dealing with a problem based on numbers. We take her at her word and wait for the information to be released in due course. PS Greaves who was present in the discussion we note did not challenge anything the Minister contributed re: numbers.

    On the matter of Girvan we make no apology to referring to him as a so called academic. The title of academic is not only earned by paper trophies or the job one holds but the act of using ones position to educate the people. The analogies used by Girvan in the interview carried this morning does nothing to enlighten and is untrue! The action of rogue immigration officers cannot be extrapolated to a national position. What Girvan and Davis contributed to the interview on the Jamaica radio station, it is not sufficient to say we disagree. Again we stand by our position that the academics in our region continue to remain married to ideology and continue to resist any reframing of the regional movement given the problems which have started to crop up.

  14. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    Regarding Sen. McLean’s comments on policy. I qualify as a skilled person under at least 2 of the 5 categories in RTC and yet am waiting 2 years now for replies on getting approval under either of those to allow me to work in Barbados. (For those who abhor my living ‘high and free’, here is one reason, because I would otherwise find myself classed as in trangression of teh laws as far as paid work is concerned.). I know the policy yet I have a bureacracy in place that does not allow me to move ahead. By the time that my Caricom spouse’s assignment finishes here next year perhaps I will learn whether I am allowed to work! Just an indication of what happens with policy and how it’s applied.


  15. @LIB

    Sorry to hear then you should take up PS Greave offer to call him at Government Headquarters as he did to the UWI student who married a Guyanese who has not been allowed in Barbados. By the way, did VOB try to find out from the immigration department why her husband was not allowed back in the country in the interest of balance?

  16. mash up & buy back Avatar
    mash up & buy back

    Living in Barbados.

    You are telling bare lies!

    Minister mcclean did cite figures but she got no time to develop her points and I think this was deliberate by the VOB people.

    She stated that 1.6 million visitors came to barbados for the year 2007.Of that 900,000 came from caricom.
    She said it would be easy from that to extract info on work permit holders,those who came on holiday and did not leave etc,but manpower problems meant that the immigraation dept is over stretched.

    I believe Adrian Hinds got it right,you seem very determined to nit pick and prepared not to understand in a full way what this government is doing and why.

    You fool no one in this regard.

    David/BU

    I agree with most of your observations.

    I am also very disturbed by the sensationalist nature that david ellis took this critical debate,with the inclusion of that girl married to a guyanese whose parents are here in barbados,his aunts and uncles are here,yet he he is not allowed to stay,and strangest of all,she has to get married to him in guyana.

    Something just doesn’t add up,yet david ellis uses her unsubstantiated charges as ‘stand alone’ facts.

    Annalee davis blatant lies and charges of torture tactics by the immigration department should not have been allowed to go out on air,unchallenged.

    Maxine mcclean as former immigration officer was disrespected by VOB in my view, because I felt she should have been in that studio and she should have been given much more time.

    Norman faria brought nothing new to the table,but a lot of scandalous,outrageous statements against barbados and caller after caller were able to prove that he is engaging in behaviour and rhetoric not in keeping with someone who holds dipolmatic status.

    The barbadian government needs to pay particular attention to the ‘subervisive’ activities of annalee davis.

    This woman is taking unsubstantiated rumours given by guyanese indian illegals and painting them as facts all over the USA,Canada,Europe,Trinidad,Jamaica,Guyana, all over the world.

    She is on a one woman wrecking mission to destroy the good name of this country because a few indian guyanese who worked for her papa and family made charges which even by ant stretch were true cannot be said to be a policy of the government of Barbados.

    Jeff cumberbatch was disgraceful and shallow in his remarks.

    Lindsay Holder showed him up big time.

    I hope gets Linsday Holder on a programme and not necessarily with peter wickham to discuss this matter on radio and t.v.

  17. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    I did not hear that Mr. Holder make that comment either.

    However, I think you are being wonderfully generous to Sen. McLean. There is no way that a Cabinet minister has to ‘eyeball’ anything. He/she has the civil service there to do all the work needed so that he/she can make informed and detailed statements. She was not hauled out of a lunch suddenly to come to the program, I hope, and in any event should be already well briefed on the details. She spoke of the theoretical (data available, etc.) but then gave us the reality (as indicated by the AG report) that there are no usable data that can be cited.

    Your remarks about Prof. Girvan may come to haunt you and those whom you choose to support, if one goes to any category of professional, and it’s a diversion. He is an academic, but one whose views you do not like or share. Leave it at that.

  18. mash up & buy back Avatar
    mash up & buy back

    Brother Bush Tea

    If you listened to that brasstacks programme I would like to get your take on it.

  19. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Mash up etc.

    Those figures have no bearing on the discussion regarding illegal immigration, not least because Barbados is a tourist destination, and also a transit point for many other destinations. That’s my point.

    As you note, “She said it would be easy from that to extract info on work permit holders,those who came on holiday and did not leave etc,but manpower problems meant that the immigraation dept is over stretched.” She did not give the information; and the AG report indicated that the matter of data is not one of resources but of a deficient management information system.

    I look forward to Lindsay Holder’s contributions to these discussions, taking David’s comment to George Brathwaite in that regard as being equally applicable to others who submit material for discussion. If Mr. Holder has been contributing under another name then I demur on that point. Sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.


  20. Anonymous
    I have been called a BLP supporter, a DLP supporter, now A guyanese;what next?
    The basic point is, we bajans have got to protect the sovereignty of Barbados FIRST. We like the other countries iun the region, have our own government, constitution and laws which is supreme to any regional treaty. If Barbados bow to regional pressure then we would be swamped by more unwanteds in this country and then there would be no need for our P.M or government. At the end of the day all the other regional countries would benefit and bajans would be out in the cold. Wake up bajans !!!!! don’t you see there is an evil force that is trying to steal our ancestors treasure? Are we prepared to sit back and deprive our offspring? If we do, we would be the failed generation and this would be caused by dis-unity among us.


  21. MU&BB,

    So everything on the programme that you did not agree with were lies or unsubstantiated while what you agreed with was brilliant…good for you! Can anyone answer my question about how it is possible to determine that the number of undocumented aliens have grown? I did not hear the Minister cite figures.

  22. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    Policy in place means that ordinary people should not have to go to the permanent secretary of a ministry to get routine policy matters dealt with. Time has passed and I now cannot offer any employer a service that I would expect to be accepted. But thanks for the response.

    To those who feel that it is ‘nit picking’ to ask of a Cabinet minister to deliver what he/she has said can be done “easily” then I suggest that you take a good hard look. I have been in national and international bureaucracies for over 30 years and know what that is.

    Minister McLean or any other government minister should not need a slot on a call-in programme to develop a series of argument. You have Parliament, you have press briefings, you have all the machinery of government at your disposals. You even have state-run radio and TV. So, what has stopped the development of the argument? Who’s tying the government’s hands and tongue? Please don’t say the opposition.


  23. I meant to listen to that program today but forget to. Seem as though it was hot. When will it be repeated? One comment that I would make although I did not hear the program, is, the Government of Barbados should not let any external forces determine the IMMIGRATION POLICY OF BARBADOS. We must put Bajans first, end of story. I would like to refer all of you to an article in the Nation this week gone written by Tony Best on INTERNATIONAL IMMIGRATION AND MIGRATION. All and sundry should read it


  24. @LIB,Now I understand your motivation a bit more clearly.I was always under the impression you had already gained the relevant status in Barbados to legally stay permanently.

    The truth is though that the world recession,rising unemployment & the current illegal immigration outrage is what is fueling the “buracreacy”.If I was any Immigration Department officer I’d certainly be hesitant about giving work authorization under the current crisis & rising unemployment numbers,unless it was in the national interest.

    Here in the US,it is the same.Unemployment has risen & USCIS has been hesitant in giving out H1B work visas.Usually,those work visas are gone in 1 day of filing but as of today there are still quite a few visas available it that category.

    @LIB,What would you do should Barbados opt-out of CSME if this Immigration debate gets any more heated & why did you choose Barbados specifically as it pertains to skilled free-movement ?


  25. I was glad to hear law professor Cumberbatch say today that contrary to popular opinion illegal immigrants are protected by the Barbados Constitution, as the Barbados Constitution speaks about persons, not citizens.


  26. Dear mash up and buy back you wrote “Minister mcclean did cite figures…She stated that 1.6 million visitors came to barbados for the year 2007.Of that 900,000 came from caricom.

    And “She said it would be easy from that to extract info on work permit holders”

    My response if it is so easy how come she has not or will not or cannot produce the numbers?

    “…but manpower problems meant that the immigraation dept is over stretched.”

    My response, Ahhhh!!! here is something approaching the truth. The Immigration Department does not have the staff to do the work, and so the work has not been done.

    Telling us that 1.6 million tourists came last year and that 900,000 of that number came form Caricom tell us NOTHING about legal/illegal migration.


  27. @ Mashup and by back:
    I believe Adrian Hinds got it right,you seem very determined to nit pick and prepared not to understand in a full way what this government is doing and why.

    ————————————————–

    When you read every word that people like Dennis Jones, Norman Girvan, Analee Davis, Mia Mottley et all writes or utters, like I do, you tend to feel like it’s one person with several accents and voice repeating the same set of excuses. They all tend to dismiss the comments of the anti-regionalist as DIATRIBE.

    ….@LIB: You claim that those who oppose regionalism may not be xenophobic but may be conservative. Some would ask what is the difference. My objection to regionalism is not base either, but has to do with the top down approach. Norman Girvan has more say in this regionalism than I do, It can be said that it is his (csme) pet project, and I believe that as an active voter citizen in the caribbean that we out number him and his group which you might be a part off, and yet we have had no say who comes to live in our countries, is this not a right we should have? Also, I have no interest in entering into any regional integration system with people (Guyana and Trini Indics) who have clearly demonstrated an inward and selfserving interest not suited to coming together with us non-indians of the caribbean. Tell me why I should welcome with open arms those whose intention are of and for their own kind?
    If you are still at this time not convince that the Indic population of caricom countries are about themselves please say so and lets get it on with the proof and rebuttals to our opposing positions.

    I am prepared to tell Norman Girvan, not in his life time will he see this so called regionalism taking hold, because what I see as regionalism todate and what he and his group are out in force trying protect is an invading force of illegal Guyanese Indics across the Caricom countries. All active voter citizens across the caribbean should take note and be prepare to fight this force acceptance of apanjaat practioners in our respective societies. As any of us ever met this Norman Girvan person? well then……. It remains till this day, and t Ricky Singh spoke to it ever so slightly recently, that the people who need to be attacked, villified, etc for their position against regional integration is the INDIC population of Trinidad and Guyana, and the INDIC government of Guyana and the opposition in Trinidad. These are the ones that are holding up regional integration, for as long as they hold fast to their apanjaat mentality I will resist with all my being any coming together with them, or allowing any significant number of them into my space. No change from them, none will be forthcoming from me.


  28. J // June 21, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    I was glad to hear law professor Cumberbatch say today that contrary to popular opinion illegal immigrants are protected by the Barbados Constitution, as the Barbados Constitution speaks about persons, not citizens
    ————————————————–
    nonsense! A person’s human rights are. But no illegal immigrant can have legal immigrant rights under the constitution when the said document clearly defines who is a citizen, how one can become a citizen and how that citizenship can be revoked. Jeff may be trying a Bill Clinton (IS) by trying make hay out of a word(citizen vs. person). chupse.


  29. J // June 21, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Dear mash up and buy back you wrote “Minister mcclean did cite figures…She stated that 1.6 million visitors came to barbados for the year 2007.Of that 900,000 came from caricom.
    …………………………………….
    Do you folk read? Do you think before you type garbage? UK supplies B’dos with 50% of visitors. Usa and canada about 30%. How then is the Caricom figure 900,000 tourists out of 1.6 mil?

    A big percentage of West Indian visitors arrive here in search of USA visas, UWI related travel and seeking to work illegally. Its only the Trinidadians who are real tourists. 900,000 my botsy. Steupzzz.

  30. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Jay
    I’m not sure that you do understand. I’m a Caricom national, but I have rights of abode in the UK and the US, and my legal right to stay in Barbados can be limitless, depending on what I want to do. I “chose” Barbados, because I have a spouse whose job took her here, and being a good family man, I resigned my job and came along. My inability to get the bureaucracy to clear my Caricom skills status did not stop me working as I could do consultancy and teaching work overseas, with Bim as my base.

    The recession has no bearing on my staying here. My decisions on a future here depend on a lot of things, and nothing is excluded as I am now not tied to an employer, but am tied to my family.

  31. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds

    I’m not sure you are privy to all I write and utter (but that is nit picking).

    You may hear what seems like one voice coming from a group that is not directly connected or in contact with each other, but that must be mere coincidence. If that one voice comes across because it opposes your views, then I have to ask if similarly those who may be supporting your view also sound like one voice.

    There’s a big difference between xenophobia and being conservative.

    I certainly do not view anti-regionalists’ comments as diatribe. I have used that word with regard to some remarks I have seen on blogs such as this, and I do that based on my understanding of the word (I use Websters), meaning ‘long discourse’ and ‘bitter and abusive writing’.

    If I understand your other comments on citizens’ views on regional integration initiatives, I do not have any problem with citizens pushing for what they want. But, I have asked the question before about what political positions citizens have supported and if they then voted for people who seemed to not be in sync. with those views. It intrigues me, for example, how the BLP could retain its position for 14 years with its clear stance on matters such as CSME, if that was not broadly supported by those who voted for it?

  32. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @MUBB

    I think my essential point that Minister McLean gave no figures of relevance to discussion of illegal immigration has been agreed by others: citing 1.6 million visitors to Barbados for 2007, with 900,000 of them from Caricom.

    You comment that “I believe Adrian Hinds got it right, you seem very determined to nit pick and prepared not to understand in a full way what this government is doing and why”. As others have pointed out, even those figures seem to make no sense, suggesting more than half of visitors are from Caricom. If we believe the statistics the government has given to the Caribbean Tourism Organization, see http://www.onecaribbean.org/content/files/2007anguilla-bonaireCountryStats.pdf, we see about 1.2 million visitors and 18% of them coming from Caricom; that would be around 220,000 people. I don’t think it’s nit picking to give people information that makes sense. If you prefer to argue that the statistics are bogus or somehow irrelevant, then that’s another story. It will be interesting to hear if others take Sen. McLean to task over the figures she cited.

    What would be nit picking (and I did not do it because I thought I understood what was meant would be to take to task someone who wrote above “mute” when they meant “moot”.)

  33. Straight talk Avatar

    Didn’t she say 1.6 million total visitors, Jan-March – 900,000 through GAIA and 700,000 from the port?


  34. @LIB

    You must know that on the blog if we understand what is intended that’s what is important. We are not at school.

    Your other point about what the BLP was in power for so long. You are aware that there was a period when the DLP as opposition was in shambles?

  35. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @David
    If “You must know that on the blog if we understand what is intended that’s what is important. We are not at school.” refers to nit picking, I wholeheartedly agree. I was mute on moot 🙂 If it refers to broader agruments, I must beg to differ. That said, Barbados prides itself on its high level of literacy, so I could feel compelled (in a Matthew Farley way) to bring that back to the right level if I thought I saw it slipping.

    “Your other point about what the BLP was in power for so long. You are aware that there was a period when the DLP as opposition was in shambles?” leaves me wondering. Given that belief and given a probable concern about the DLP’s ability to manage economic crises, what drove the electorate to give them the mantle of government in January 2008, as the world was heading into a series of then clear economic head winds? No need to explore here, but that’s real food for thought.


  36. @ LIB

    Your last point is worthy of further discussion.


  37. Thompson added: “There are people living in Barbados, not citizens of Barbados, not otherwise connected to Barbados, who have a legitimate interest in creating as much confusion in relation to Barbados’ immigration policy as can result to their benefit.”

    ————————————————–
    ha ha ha ha lol! I thought he would have said and speaks wid a funny accent. So true so true.


  38. It was interesting to listen to a BBC report today which featured Prime Minister Patrick Manning explaining to Trinidad the reason why it is important to enter a union with the OECS. The main reason he gave was the importance of Trinidad working with the poorer OECS to build their economies to stem mass migration to Trinidad and at the same time provide a ready market for T&T goods.

    This position is interesting given the key role T&T has as a Caricom/CSME member. Obviously Manning has shifted his position somewhat obviously influenced by the interest of T&T. Barbados would need to judge how the T&T move to credit a union within a union is bound to impact CSME roll out.

    Should Barbados stay onboard the CSME ship as originally conceived or should it anticipate how the action of the country with the largest economy in the group will impact and make adjustments.

  39. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds
    “I thought he would have said and speaks wid a funny accent.” is the kind of remark that betrays so much. With its pop. of 280,000 (no matter what its composition), almost everyone of the 1.2 million (or 1.6 million) visitors annually from abroad thinks that EVERYONE here has a funny accent. In fact, everyone residing here, when visiting a foreign country gets labelled “people with funny accents”…

    Dogs will bite any leg, even their own…


  40. @David
    It begs the question why the Norman Girvan crowd is not as vocal towards Trinidad as they are toward Barbados. I have some theories as to why.

    @LIB:
    I laugh along with and poke fun back at my Bostonian friends when they seek to make fun of my Bajan accent. I usually tell them I gine AXE dem, instead of ASK them, But why yuh suh touchess? could it be you feel alone with your unique accent? It does make me laugh, and at the same time i take in all that you say without problems. You should be celebrating your ability to speak and entertain at the sametime. I think this why you maintain my attention for the duration of your deliveries. ha ha ha ha

    Looka tell muh when next you are on the radio do?


  41. @David

    Interesting that Trinidad would seek to join the OECS rather than strengthen CSME ties; they haven’t committed to the CCJ despite it being headquartered in Trinidad. I can see the need for OECS since those countries share a common currency but one wonders what Trinidad’s role would be perhaps they think that they will be Gulliver in a sea of Lilliputians.

    In these dire economic times it is “every man brek fuh eself”; if anyone thinks that Trinidad is not deporting Guyanese immigrants they have another think coming but Trinidad is not vocal about it. As for Jagdeo he doesn’t have anything to offer his citizens so he encourages them to immigrate; they can’t easily get to the traditional places like England, the USA or Canada but Barbados is seen as the port of least resistance. When Barbados seeks to bring a measure of control over the number of immigrants coming to its shores and straining its resources the other countries cry foul and moan that Barbados is not living up to the spirit of Caricom/CSME. Since when did Caricom/CSME allow unfettered immigration among its member countries? If the situation was reversed do you think the other territories would welcome Bajan immigrants en masse?

    I know some would say that Bajans went to Panama/Demerara/Guyana but circumstances were far different as Panama required workers to help construct the Canal and Barbadians were not the only West Indians who seized the opportunity. As for Demerara/Guyana some Barbadians went there under a colonial administration primarily to help develop the country. The same Colonial administration was also responsible for bringing immigrants from the Indian sub continent to Guyana. History should always be viewed in context; comparisons of different eras across the board are meaningless.

    Don’t stop the Carnival

  42. Johnnie Too Bad Avatar
    Johnnie Too Bad

    Adrian, I promised never to write about the vexed question of immigration or the unsolicited visitors to these shores since you and your friends accused me of being another Guyanese, not that there is anything wrong with that and besides my father was a bajan pan boiler in BG for many years.
    Is it not interesting that as the government finds itself facing severe economic problems with little or no vision or any creative thinking to solve them that the vexed question of immigration has been ratchet-up a few notches to divert the people’s attention from the real problems. Its just a thought, we do not own any rusty old gunboats, otherwise we would declare war on someone or other. Seems to me nothing more than a puff of wind for people to forget about their real troubles.
    Johnnietoobad.


  43. Interesting point made my Manning in the BBC extract is the importance of Trinidad working with the OECS to strengthen their economies which would stop an unmanageable flow of migrants to the best economy in Caricom. He was at pain to point out that if such a situation were allowed to develop no number of policemen would be able to stop the problem.

    Isn’t this argument best used for Guyana as well.

  44. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian
    If you really get into it, you’ll find that you and many Bostonians are linguistically quite close as both Bim and Boston had large Irish populations centuries ago, which did much to shape the way the English language formed. But that’s a different issue. I must search you out to harass when I go to Boston next month…again to live high and free…and check on some my students at Williams…

    As I’ve said, my accent is far from unique (~55 million people in England sound not so different seems like quite a good crowd compared to 280,000 in my current backyard). It’s given me some kerb appeal in Bimshire, though.

  45. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian,

    “It begs the question why the Norman Girvan crowd is not as vocal towards Trinidad as they are toward Barbados. I have some theories as to why.”

    Do share, and we know you are not a hoarder of information…


  46. Interesting point made my Manning in the BBC extract is the importance of Trinidad working with the OECS to strengthen their economies which would stop an unmanageable flow of migrants to the best economy in Caricom. He was at pain to point out that if such a situation were allowed to develop no number of policemen would be able to stop the problem.

    Isn’t this argument best used for Guyana as well.
    ————————————————–

    I am confuse. I thought that the OECS economies where doing well, that the organization has proven to be all that Caricom is not? am i confused? I do think his comments are more suited towards Guyana, indeed I think he is referring to Guyana. Immigration from the OECS countries would be a benefit to Manning and the Trinidad Africs because, as is the case in Guyana, Indic Trinidadians vote party all the time and it is only a matter of time before their count of the entire population ensures a Panday or some other Indic continued victory at the polls, as is the unfolding dilema in Guyana.

    Tell me what you think of the opinions in this link.

    http://breadfruittreelime.blogspot.com/2008/08/whats-behind-trinidads-sudden.html


  47. livinginbarbados // June 22, 2009 at 10:12 am

    @Adrian,

    “It begs the question why the Norman Girvan crowd is not as vocal towards Trinidad as they are toward Barbados. I have some theories as to why.”

    Do share, and we know you are not a hoarder of information…
    ————————————————–
    am theories are not facts,…..yet, and I know such a distinction if difficult for an economist to make, and adhere too. So with that I do not see it as hoarding. I am entitle to my opinions/theories, and to keep them to myself for whatever period, and whatever reason I see fit. Norman Girvan is developing into and interesting subject though.

    Boston is indeed big enough for us both, however I don’t move in the circles that are likely to fit your fancy. I hang out primarily with Bajans and we know how you view us. ha ha ha ha

    I have an old friend who is a proffesor at Simmons. Never visited England but has has a near perfect British accent “infected” as he would say. I can only imagine what it would have been for him to have lived there as long as you have. ha ha ha ha. Bajans would fall for anything that sounds a bit British, half baked as they maybe. ha ha ha

  48. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Adrian Hinds
    I don’t know any economists who confuse theories with facts, and if fact one joy of economics is that you can have a theory that nicely fits facts even though the theory may not make full sense.

    I must admit that the Englishness of my voice has brought me few benefits in Bim, and I have yet to fathom that, but again, I have a theory (in part that “English” people are less prone to be pushy and/or violent, and also are not likely to be around for long). I have had good success when I lik dem wi de Jumaykan labrish (again, I speculate that there is a fear that with my eyes blazing, they fear that an AK47 can only be a few inches away, or that I possibly live here and will come back fi deal wid dem).


  49. After reading the opinions on the Breadfruitlime.

    http://breadfruittreelime.blogspot.com/2008/08/whats-behind-trinidads-sudden.html

    I had to return to Peter Wickham’s articles titled Accident by birth 1 and 2

    http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/bar/archive/2006/September/06/Editorial/25640.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=accident+by+birth+peter+wickham&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1994&enddate=12%2F31%2F2008&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Daily+Nation%09%09%09

    AND

    http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/bar/archive/2006/September/13/Editorial/25943.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=accident+by+birth+peter+wickham&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1994&enddate=12%2F31%2F2008&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Daily+Nation%09%09%09

    And responded with the below on Aug 21, 2008. Todate I have not had a reason to change my mind.

    I think Patrick Manning’s fears re. the rise of Indo Trini to political power is real. Guyana presents a reality to this fact. However his approach is not one that Barbados should sign onto for the very reasons the article outlined. It is a catch 22 for Barbados as i see it. Caribbean integration, CSME etc with an Indian control Guyana and Trinidad is not in Barbados interest, and helping Trinidad and for that matter Guyana’s Afro population maintain access to political power and in the other regain access is not in our interest either. Barbados must continue to look at forging economic unions where needed and forget about political unions with anyone.


  50. Adrian Hinds

    there are some pictures making the rounds via e-mail. These put Peter Wickham in a very interesting light. See if you can track them down.

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