Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

The Obama Deception Video, Deceiver Or Saviour?

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

Not since the days of the Gladston Holder columns in the Barbados media have Barbadians been kept abreast of the occurrences which involve the Council for Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission or even the Bilderberg family influence on world politics. Barbadians, including the media appear to be very comfortable ferreting world news from CNN and the BBC.

BU like millions around the world have been enthralled by the new entrant to the White House. President Barack Obama is without question a departure from the old guard. Some say any perceive change should only be taken as token. Many of the appointments in the Obama government represent prominent individuals who have worked in Washington in the recent past and are regarded as part of the status quo. For example, there is the influential position of Secretary of the Treasury Tim Geithner, the former head of the Federal Reserve of New York. How can Geithner be responsible for changing Wall Street when he is a product of the system?

The video above is one hour and 53 minutes long and paints an intriguing picture of Obama and the shadow government which runs the US government. While BU is inclined to ask questions we are not sure we fully buy in to the positions expressed in the video.

What do you think?

Thanks to BU family member Hopi!

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

725 responses to “The Obama Deception Video, Deceiver Or Saviour?”

  1. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Hopi by writing this garbage you indicate your ignorance of Church History

    keep changing its clothing from catholicism, to anglicanism to pentecostalism, to baptistism to methodism….

    The Baptists will tell you that they are not protestants and they can trace thier origins to the apostolic church via the Petrobusians, Lolards, Waldenses, Ana baptists etc (read The Faithful Baptist Witness or The Trail of Blood.)

    Catholicism arose when your Father, Satan, found that he could not destroy the true church by persecution and he got the Emperor Constantine cerca AD 313 to merge the Church with the State forming the Roman Catholic church.

    The true church is indeed catholic or universal. The Anglican Church arose out of the Roman Catholic church when Henry 8th could not get the Pope to grant him a divorce.

    The Methodist Church arose out of a weakening Church of England when the Wesley brothers started preaching all over the UK and were thought to be “methodical” in thier efforts. The Pentecostals arose in the 1900’s out of the Methodist Church.

    The message of the true church has never changed, but your dad, Satan has sought to weaken the church by injecting the various sects and denominations, who differ often over either trivia, or simple misinterpretaions of basic doctrinal truths.

  2. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Anonymouse…..Do you have any idea where the word ‘church’ originated. When you find out holler back.

  3. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Hopi’s ignorance of historic fact, is exceeded only by their arrogance!

    You say that no Roman or Grecian historian neither Philo nor Josephus who lived in the same era, make no mention of Christ. Is that right?

    External Support – some early extra-NT writers:

    1] Jesus Christ was executed (by crucifixion) in Judaea during the period where Tiberius was Emperor (AD 14-37) and Pontius Pilate was Governor (AD 26-36). [Tacitus, Annals, ~ AD 115]

    2] The movement spread from Judaea to Rome. [Tacitus]

    3] Jesus claimed to be God and that he would depart and return. [Eliezer ~ 90’s AD, cited Klausner, 1929]

    4] His followers worshipped him as (a) God. [Pliny ~ AD 112, Letters to Trajan]

    5] He was called “the Christ.” [Josephus, Antiquities, ~ 90’s]

    6] His followers were called “Christians.” [Tacitus, Pliny]

    7] They were numerous in Bithynia and Rome [Tacitus, Pliny]

    8] It was a world-wide movement. [Eliezer]

    9] His brother was James. [Josephus]

    10] This man was the Christ, and Pilate had condemned Him to the cross, upon Him impeachment by the principle men among us, those who had loved Him from the first did not forsake Him, for He appeared to them ALIVE on the third day, the Divine Prophets having spoken these and thousands of other wonderful things about Him. And even now, the race of Christians, so named from Him, have not died out. [Josephus Antiquities 18. 3.3]

    11] Christus, the founder of the name, was put to DEATH by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the time of Tiberius. [Tacitus Annals XV.44]

    12] Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call Him a man, for He was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. [Josephus. Antiquities XVIII.33).

    These are all external sources confirming the historicity of the Person of Jesus Christ.

    When an event takes place in history and there are enough people alive who were eyywitnesses of it, or had participated in the event, and when published, one is able to verify the validity of an historical event (circumstantial evidence). The Gospel evidence for the Resurrection of Christ is of this class; add to that the Eternal evidence cited above, and we have evidence beyond refutation.

    John Singleton Copley, better known as Lord Lyndhurst (1172-1853), was recognized as one of the greatest legal minds in British history. When Chancellor Lyndhurst died, a document was found in his desk among his private papers, giving an extended account of his own Christian faith, he wrote: “I know pretty well what evidence is; and I tell you, such evidence as that for the Resurrected has never broken down yet. The evidence points unmistakably to the FACT that on the third day Jesus rose.”

    This was the conclusion to which the former Chief Justice of England , Lord Darling came to:

    “In its favour as living truth there exist such overwhelming evidence, postive, negative, factual, circumstantial, that no intelligent jury in the world could fail to bring in a virdict that the Resurrection story is true.”

    Truth by definition is absolute. Martin Luther King, once said something like this. “Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn refuse to accept them.”

    To those who believe, no explanation is necessary; but, to those who don’t believe, or have chosen NOT to believe, no explanation is possible.

  4. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    To those who believe, no explanation is necessary; …….

    Then how can you believe in something without any explanation?!!??

    Is this what faith is about??

  5. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Yes. Thats what faith is about.
    There are so many things that everyone believes in all spheres of life about which there is no clear explanation. Dont be cute!

  6. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    As I thought.

    Not a single contemporaneous account for the “most significant event in history”

    That is just remarkable.

    Zoe seems incapable to understand her own advice ….”When an event takes place in history and there are enough people alive who were eyywitnesses….. one is able to verify the validity of an historical event”

    Yes Zoe, so please give us the contemporaneous accounts.

    By the way your point 10 has long been discredited as an interpolation.

    The oldest surviving manuscript with this passage dates only to the 11th century.

    Christian writers referencing Josephus in the 3rd century make no mention of this passage.

    The great Christian scholar Origen who referenced the work of Josephus makes no mention of this passage.

    In Josephus earlier work “The Jewish War” there is no mention of Jesus at all.

    More to point, a later greek manuscript of “The Jewish War” has the passage inserted.

    Since we have about 5700 NT manuscripts (none of the them the original) in existence with a myriad of examples of insertions by christian scribes it is almost certain the passage was forged. (a fact that many christians have long since acknowledged)

  7. AFRIKAN ROYALTY Avatar
    AFRIKAN ROYALTY

    dr lardner one of the ablest defenders of the christian faith that ever weilded a pen in its support and has written ten large volumes to bloster it up assigns nine cogent reasons(which i wuld insert here if i had space)for the conclusion that joesphus could not have penned those few lines penned in his “jewish antiquites” referring to christ no jew could possibly use such language. it would be glaring absuridty to suppose a leading jew could call jesus “the christ”when the whole jewish nation have ever contested the claim with the sternest logic and fought it to the bitter end”it ought therefore (says lander for the nine reason which he assigns}”to be forever discarded from any place among the evidences of christianity”(life of lardner by kippis p 23) as the passage is not found in any edition of josephus prior to the era of eusebius the suspicion has fastened upon that christtian writer as being the author,who argued that FALSEHOOD might be used as amedicine for the BENEFIT OF THE CHURCHS (see his Eccles.hist)

  8. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Encyclopaedia Britannica:

    The Encyclopardia uses 20,000 words in describing this person, Jesus. His description took more space than was given to Aristotle, Cicero, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Buddha, Confucius, Mohammed or Napoleon Bonaparte.

    Concering the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth, it records:

    “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and the beginning of the 20th centuries.

    F.F. Peters points out that “On the basis of manuscript tradition alone, the works that made up the Christians’ New Testament were the most frequently copied and widle circulated books of antiquity.” 69/50.

    Manuscript Evidence of The New Testament.

    There are now more than 5,00 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Add over 10,000 Latin Vulgate and at least another 9,300 other early versions (MSS) and we have more than 24,000 manuscript copies or portions of the New Testament in existence today.

    No other document of antiquity even begins to approach such numbers and attestation. In comparison, the Iliad by Homer is second with only 643 manuscripts that still survive. The first complete preserved text of Homer dates from the 13th century, a gap of 500 years between the composition of the original and the first copy, with only 643 copies.

    In the case with the New Testament documents, the time span between the original compositions, and the earliest copies, is just 25 years, with more than 24,000 copies extant.

    Now, what is absolutely remarkable about the more than 24,oo0 copies of manuscripts, drawn from a number of different areas (sources) IS the FACT, that when expert scholars examine all of them, of which there are 15 different sources, from the Greek, Latin Vulgate, Ethiopic, Slavic, Armenian, Syriac Pashetta, Boshairic, Arabic, Old Latin, Anglo Saxon, Gothic, Sogdian, Old Syriac, Persian, and Frankish, the variations in all of the different (MSS) are so miniscule, that NO doctrinal substance has in any way been affected.

    In other words, as Philip Schaff states, of the 400 of the 150, ooo variant readings caused doubt about the textual meaning, and only 50 of these were of great significance. Not one of the variations, Schaff says, altered “an article of faith or a precept of duty which is not abundantly sustained by other and undoubted passages, or by the whole tenor of Scripture teaching.

    Geisler and Nix say, concerning the observations by Hort, that “only about one-eighth of all the varients had any weight as most of them are merely mechanical matters such as spelling or style. Of the whole, then, only about one-sixth rise above “trivialities” or can in any sense be called ‘substantial variations.’ Mathematically this would compute to a text that is 98.33 percent pure.

    Warfield boldly declares that the facts show that the great majority of the New Testament “has been transmitted to us with no, or next to no, variation; and even in the most variated form in which it has ever appeared, to use oft-quoted words of Richard Bentley, the real text of the sacred writters is completely exact;…nor is one article of faith or moral precept either perverted or lost…choose as awkwardly as you will, choose the worst by design, out of the whole lump of readings.

    Schaff quotes both Tregelles and Scrivener: “We possess so many MSS, and we are aided by so many versions, that we are never left to the need of conjecture as the means of removing errata.

    As F.F. Bruce states: “That the textual variations do not endanger doctrine is emphatically stated by Sir Frederic Kenyon (0ne of the great authorities in the field of New Testament textual criticism): “one word of warning referred to, must be emphasized in conclusion. NO fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith rests on a disputed reading.”

    “It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain: Especially is this the case with the New Testament. The number of manuscripts of the New Testament, of early translations for it, and of quotations from it in the oldest writters of the Church, is so large that it is practically certain that the true reading of every doubtful passage is preserved in some one or other of these ancient authorities. This can be said of NO OTHER ancient book in the world.”

    Benjamin Warfield said: ” If we compare the present state of the New Testament text with that of any other ancient writing, we must…declare it to be marvelously correct. Such has been the care with which the New Testament has been copied – a care which has doubtless grown out of true reverence for its holy words- such has been the providence of God in preserving for His Church in each and every age a competently exact text of the Scriptures, that not only is the New Testament unrivalled among ancient writings in the purity of its text as actually transmitted and kept in use, but also in the abundance of testimony which has come down to us for castigating its comparatively infrequent blemishes.”

    In The Bible and Modern Scholarship, Sir Frederic Kenyon says, :The net result of this discovery – by far the most important since the discovery of the Sinaiticus – is, in fact, to reduce the gap between the earlier manuscripts and the traditional dates of the New Testament books so far that it becomes negligible in any discussion of their authenticity. No other ancient book has anything like such early and plentiful testimony to its text, and no unbiased scholar would deny that the text that comes down to us is substantially sound.”

    When the facts are known and compared, there is an overwhelming evidence of reasons for believing that the MSS we possess are trustworthy. We shall see, as Sir Frederic Kenyon put it, that, “The Christian can take the whole Bible in his hand and say without fear or hesitation that he holds in it the true Word of God, handed down without essential lost from generation to generation throughout the centuries.”

    The foregoing is just scratching the surface of the amazing abundance of critical analysis, done over many, many years, by a wide range of competent scholarship, painstakingly going over all that has been transmitted through the centuries in the New Testament documents, as well as the Old Testament, which stand ALONE among all other writings of antiquity, is its authenticity, reliability, and absolute trustworthiness.

  9. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Under Manuscript Evidence of The New Testament, should be 5000 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

  10. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    except of course that the NT gospels were written long after Jesus was dead

    and therefore there are no contemporaneous accounts of jesus in existence

  11. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe writes

    “In the case with the New Testament documents, the time span between the original compositions, and the earliest copies, is just 25 years”

    —-

    That is just plain false.

    The earliest FRAGMENTS date to the 2nd and 3rd centuries

    The oldest complete copies date to the 4th century

    Most of the surviving 5700 greek manuscripts date from the 10th century and later

    Zoe, the very existence of the NT and that is a document of antiquity (and a much copied one too) is not in doubt.

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Not Saved

    This is your problem.
    You have recieved some light or revelation in the pass, and you refused it. The result is you refusing the light has increased your darkness.

    You think you are so wise, but soon you will see how stupid you are

    2Thessalonians 2:10-12 describes your end!

    10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  13. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    I challenge you to read the Bible starting with John’s gospel, and ask the Lord to help you to open your HEART! so that you can understand.

    This is not an intellectual issue, this is a heart issue!

    Stop rejecting the light

  14. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Not Saved, is a fool, on a previous BU subject, GEM of TKI, GP, and Carlos already put him in his place, PROPERLY! Proper, Proper idiot!

  15. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Zoe……. Let me tell you a little something about these writing of antiquity that you and the fraudsters that predate you are trying to pass off as fact. The language of the Kemetians i.e..the ancient Black Egyptians was known as Mdu Ntr .. meaning the Word/Words God. The Roman, the Greeks, the jews, the English, the German they ALL came after the Kemetians. The Greeks and the Romans invaded Kemet. They raped, murdered and pillaged that land and eventually burnt the library at ‘Alexandria’ ..more than 500000 books were destroyed. But this is after they had stolen the knowledge of the kemetians. So whatever books and manuscripts you christians believe in or live by were whitewashed by taking the knowledge and putting some ‘whiteace’ on it and you know what happens when you whiteace a shoe..eventually the true color surfaces. So what you are posting here is the ‘Argument of Apolegetics’ i.e. No evidence no argument. Wasn’t it only about 1492 when the Conquerors realized that the earth was NOT flat? So what you’ve posted here is nothing but forgeries by the same ignorant, marauding conquerors to serve their purpose. And that purpose was to CONQUER. So when they talk of divine language, or language inspired by God that was stolen straight out of Kemet. You can go to the London museum where you will find the image of Serapis and this is the same image that was brought to you as the image Jesus Christ by edit of Constant’killing’ine at the Nicean council 325AD. Serapis Christus became Jesus Christ. So you better pay homage to Emperor Constantine because he also gave you by the same edit a date when you should celebrate Easter. So when you enter goddess circee to celebrate easter, remember that the assassin brought you the reason and season.

    Anony……’This is not an intellectual issue, this is a heart issue.’ That’s why you believe the shit. You have refused to take your brain and separate the truth fr fiction, hence it has been quite easy to fool you and now you’re trying to pass on the folly.

  16. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    so you resort to calling me a fool?

    really pathetic

  17. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Since I am a “proper proper idiot” but you are unable to respond to a single challenge I made, what does that say about you?

    Are the Jews who rejected your Jesus fools too?

  18. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Anonny,

    If it is a “heart” issue why I am a “proper proper idiot” if I dont agree?

  19. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Not Saved
    As Paul did to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20: 32, all I can do is commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

    There is no other way.

  20. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hopi,

    I had hoped that my return to this blog would have been christened with lighter topics but I see we still at it.

    I see Carlos change his name to Zoe. I also see that there seems to be more acceptance or tolerance of an alternate view to Christianity.

    To all those Christians who feel that the end of the world has come; to all those who running from the thunderbolts that is come down and consume those holding an alternative view;

    Peace! Fear Not! God never left. The almighty dwells within among us. There is no Satan but a balancing of the forces of nature by the two extremes: “Push” and “Pull”, “light” and “Dark” and “beginning” and “Ending” and are all cycles of life rather than merely “Hope” which is good, and “Gloom” which is bad.

  21. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Hopi, this one is for you.

    Is there such a thing as heat?

    Is there such a thing as cold?

    Now, to your favorite subject, ‘Darkness’, and Light.

    Is there such a thing as Darkness?

    Is there such a thing as Light?

    Awaiting your response!

  22. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Rok…..That was a long ‘hideatus’ Thought that you were thinking that the race was only for the swift and the battle for the strong and gotten fed up and checked out for good like that other saint Yardbroom. Anyhow, the alternative view to Christianity does not need tolerance. Its only the lies that need acceptance and tolerance. The TRUTH is catching up. No, I don’t think Carlos is Zoe, she might be his cohort.

    Hotep.

    Zoe……How you posing me these questions, but refused to answer any of mine…like can you live without the SUN or where in the good book is the birthdate of Jesus written? Is there eqaulity in creation? Now to answer your questions… Is there ying and yang, male and female?

  23. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    (CNN) — A Maryland woman involved with a group described as a religious cult pleaded guilty in the starvation death of her son, but insisted that the charges be dropped when he is resurrected.

    Ramkissoon and the others are accused of denying Javon food after the group’s leader, a 40-year-old woman who goes by the name Queen Antoinette, decreed the boy was a demon since he refused to say “amen” after meals, Silverman said.

    Javon is believed to have died in December 2006, court documents allege. Following his death, the group members put the boy’s body in a back room, and “everyone was directed to come in and pray,” according to the documents. “The Queen told everyone that ‘God was going to raise Javon from the dead.’ Javon remained in the room for an extended period of time (in excess of one week).

    The resurrection never took place.”

  24. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Court documents say Ramkissoon joined One Mind Ministries after Javon’s birth in 2005. Silverman described her as a petite, soft-spoken woman who rejected her family’s Hindu religion, became a devout Christian and wanted to raise her son in that religion.

  25. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    For those scoffers, who are holding on to a flimsy, paltry, trivial, piece of ‘straw’ to discredit the overwhelming preponderance of evidence in support of the validity and trustworthiness of the New Testament documents, and by extension the FACT of the Historic personhood of The Lord Jesus Christ; here are a few ‘Basic Rules of Evidence’ that’s widely accepted by most competent Legal minds.

    1] THE ANCIENT DOCUMENTS RULE: “Every document, apparently ancient, coming from the proper repository of custody, and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the LAW presumes to be genuine, and devolves on the OPPOSING party the burden of proving it to be otherwise.”

    2] Conversance: “In matters of public and general interest, all persons must be presumed to be conversant, on the principle that individuals are presumed to be conversant with their own affairs.”

    4] Probability of Truthfulness:”In trials of fact, by oral testimony, the proper inquiry is not whether it is possible that the testimony many be false, but whether there is sufficient probability that it is true.”

    5] Criteria of Proof: “A proposition of fact is proved, when its truth is established by competent and satisfactory evidence. By competent evidence is meant such as the nature of the thing to be proved requires; and by satisfactory evidence is meant that amount of PROOF, which ordinarily satisfies an unprejudiced mind, beyond any reasonable doubt.”

    6] Credibility of Witnesses: “In the absence of circumstances which generate suspicion, every witness is to be presumed credible, until contrary is shown; the BURDEN of impeaching his credibility lying on the objector.”

    7] Credit due to Testimony: “The credit due to the testimony of witnesses depends upon, firstly, their honesty; secondly, their ability; thirdly, their NUMBER and the CONSISTENCY of THEIR testimony; fourthly, the CONFORMITY of their testimony with EXPERIENCE; and fifthly, the coincidence of their testimony with collateral circumstances.”

    These are a few of the most important Basic Rules of Evidence from an entirely Legal, Jurisprudential, perspective, relative to the validity of inquiring if, the New Testament Evangelist, i.e., the Synoptic Gospel writers, and other New Testament books, are valid, reliable witnesses, and therefore, trustworthy in the accounts they have recorded.

    Evidence for the attestation of the NT manuscripts, has already been given, leaving it IN a class way above ALL other documents of antiquity; using the accepted means and methods, that apply to the examination of ALL ancient documents.

    A significant thing about the New Testament, is, that the number of writers IS greater than those of other events from antiquity.

    Four persons wrote the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and at least four other persons wrote epistles (Paul, James, Peter, and Jude). The HARMONY and consistency of their stories confirm the stories’ authenticity. (The Battle For The Resurrection, p.73, Professor Norman L. Geisler).

    Next, there are SIX different, but not conflicting accounts of the Resurrected Christ (Matt. 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20-21; Acts 1: I Cor. 15). From a Legal perspective, Two or Three witnesses are sufficient to establish a credible report.

    Apart from the NT writers, there were over 500 people who saw Christ after His Resurrection over a forty-day period of time on at least TWELVE different occasions. They saw Him and His empty grave, heard Him, touched Him, and even ate with Him four times. The sum total of this evidence is more than sufficient to establish the authenticity of the event.

    Jesus appeared to them [the Apostles] over a period of forty days and spoke about the Kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). During this time He “gave many INFALLIBLE proofs that He was ALIVE” (Acts 1:3 NIV).

    On further convincing proof of Jesus’ physical resurrection was the He ATE with the two Emmaus disciples. Luke says, “as HE sat at the table with them, the He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them” (Luke 24:30 NKJV). Luke in two other places states that Jesus did eat with the disciples (Acts 1:4; 10:41). During Jesus’ third appearance, the eyewitnesses saw Him, heard Him, and ate with Him over a period of one evening. It is difficult to imagine how Jesus could have done anything more to demonstrate the tangible, material nature of His resurrection.

    Jesus’ Appearance to the Ten Apostles.

    When Jesus appeared to the Ten Apostles (Thomas absent), He was SEEN, HEARD, TOUCHED, and they saw Him eat fish. All four major evidences of the VISIBLE, physical nature of the Resurrection body were present on this occasion. First of all, “while they were talking about this, Jesus Himself stood among them and said to them, ‘Peace be with you.” In fact, Jesus carried on a conversation with them about how “everything must be fulfilled that is WRITTEN about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms” (Luke 24:44 NIV). Jesus was HEARD by the disciples.

    Second, the disciples also SAW Jesus on this occasion. In fact, they thought at first that He was a “spirit” (v. 7). But Jesus “Showed them His hands and feet”, So they clearly saw Him as well as heard Him. In the parallel account, John records that “the disciples were overjoyed when the SAW the Lord” (John 20:20 NIV,

    Third, or may be inferred from the fact that they were at first unconvinced of His materiality, that when Jesus presented His wounds to them, they TOUCHED Him as well. In fact, Jesus clearly said to them, :Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have” (Luke 24:39 NIV). The use of “I” and “Me” in connection with His physical Resurrection body indicates He is claiming to be numerically identical with His pre-resurrection body. Jesus also “showed then His hands and feet.”

    Jesus’ Appearance to the Eleven Apostles (John 20: 24-31).

    Thomas was not present when Jesus appeared to the Ten Apostles (John 20:24). Even after his fellow apostles reported who they had seen, Thomas refused to believe unless he could see and handle Christ for himself. A week later his wish was granted (v. 26). When Jesus appeared to Thomas, he got to SEE, HEAR, and TOUCH the Resurrected Lord. In fact, he heard the Lord say, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop DOUBTING and BELIEVE” (v. 27 NIV). To this unquestionably convincing display of physical evidence, Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” (v.28 NIV).

    Then we have ‘Jesus’ Appearance to the Seven Apostles (John 21). ‘Jesus’ Appearance to ALL the Apostles at the ‘Great Commission” (Matt. 28:16-20; Mark 16: 14-18), ‘Jesus’ Appearance to Five Hundred Disciples ( I Cor. 15:6). “Jesus’ Appearance to James (I Cor. 15:7). “Jesus’ Appearance to All the Apostles before His Ascension (Acts 1:4-8). “Jesus’ Appearance to Paul afer the Ascension (I Cor. 15:8; Acts 9:1-9).

    To that scoffer, who wants contemporaneous evidence, is it not that most, if not all great historic figures of the past ages, were not written about until many years after their death? Does this then invalidate the accounts of their lives? Certainly not!

    Well, the Gospels, Letters, Epistles, and Revalation were all written by those WHO knew Him, Saw Him, Touched Him, Ate with Him, they WERE eyewitness to His literal reality, both before His Crucifixion, and after His Resurrevtion; only Paul did not physically see Jesus; nevertheless, He encountered the Ascended Lord on his Damascus Road experience, was given amazing revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ; and thus wrote under Divine Inspiration the most profound theology on Jesus, ever recorded.

    Here are the approximate dates of the New Testament books, given by astute, competent New Testament scholars.

    Matthew, Date: A.D. 50-75. Mark Date: A.D. 65-70. Luke A.D 59-75. John Date: A.D 85. Acts A.D 62, Romans A.D 56, I Corinthians A.D. 56, II Corinthians A.D. 55-56, Galatians A.D 55-56, Ephesians A.D. 60,61. Philippians A.D. 61. Colossians About A.D. 61. I Thessalonians A.D. 50.
    II Thessalonians A.D. 50. I Timothy A.D. 64. II Timothy A.D. A.D. 66/67. Titus A.D. 64. Philemon A.D. 60-61. Hebrews A.D. 70. James A.D. 48-62. I Peter A.D. Early Sixties. II Peter A.D. 65-68. First, Second, and Third John A.D. 90. Jude A.D. 65-80. Revelation A.D. 70-95.

    All of these New Testament books, were written within the generation of those who KNEW Jesus Christ.

    No other documents of antiquity, has such overwhelming attestation, both internal and external, plus the Legal, evidential aspect, as given by great Jurist, confirming the validity, and historic veracity of the New Testament, God’s Word.

  26. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Zoe
    Do you really believe that Technician or Hopi or Not Saved have the mental capacity to comprehend the above?

    And even if they could, it is still true that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Keep teaching though, for there are some, though quiet, you are reading and learning, because the information you are presenting is presented in few local churches on the island or elsewhere.

  27. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    This miraculous story sound just like one out of the mother land where this poor brother converted to Christianity and was trying to prove how real Christianity is/was by walking in some croc-infested waters and the rest…. is history. Zoe….. what went wrong here? Do you think that this man died in Jesus name and went to heaven? Why wasn’t he able to walk on water and live? What happened with faith? Obviously he had a ton of it!

  28. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Zoe……’Accepted by most competent legal minds.’ Why didn’t the other competent legal minds accept those Basic Rules of Evidence about Jesus? Why did they dispute them? This is beginning to sound like the Nicean Council. And one thing that most competent legal minds are capable of accepting is a LIE because more than likely they have conspired to perpetrate it since legal minds are trained in the art of spin,deception, fraud and convincing and believing that which is untrue.

    From which proper repository of custody did these ancient documents come? And BTW there’s nothing ancient about the white man. He’s only been here a minute. So if you want to talk ancient and antiquated you have to go back to the BLACKNESS.

    Annoymouse…..No, Hopi does not have the mental capacity to comprehend the above because I have chosen to deactivate that part of my brain that is susceptible to such indoctrination/lies.

  29. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe,

    By your lengthy replies you confirm yet again that you have no contemporaneous accounts for Jesus and his alleged resurrection.

    Once again you confirm that your only evidence for Jesus is the NT, written long after his death

    By your own words, you claim this the greatest event in history yet not a word written until years after his death.

    More to the point even the Jewish people from which Jesus supposedly came does not accept your accounts.

  30. AFRIKAN ROYALTY Avatar
    AFRIKAN ROYALTY

    zoe was “jesus” crucufied or was he hung

  31. AFRIKAN ROYALTY Avatar
    AFRIKAN ROYALTY

    kemitic history is the true history spirituallty and civilasation was first started there all the evidence that you bring here is pure mess zoe kemit history is way older than europeans who dont have any just a stolen leagacy constantine was right when he said “with this sign we shall conquer” after all this time he still has a hold on the mind of many people.how can my enemy be my deity he can NEVER

  32. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Anonymous // March 31, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Zoe
    Do you really believe that Technician or Hopi or Not Saved have the mental capacity to comprehend the above?

    Now anon…you really starting to piss me off !!
    DO YOU KNOW ME??
    Does Zoe know me??

  33. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    That was me.

  34. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Zoe…….

    Isiah 7:14- To whom is the Lord speaking and tell me how that relates to Matthew 1:21 and to US today.

    Matthew 1:16 vs Luke 3:23 —what is the true lineage of Jesus Christ?

  35. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    zoe was “jesus” crucufied or was he hung

    Both. Jesus was nailed or fixed to a cross and then he hung or was suspended from the cross or tree trunk.

    You trying to split hairs? LOL

  36. Avatar
    Anonymous

    I believe that the record for most comments is 1083 held by “What is the purpose of our existence”. Nobody changed their opinions then but one never knows …so 949 more comments to go! Get posting guys.

  37. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    In Acts 28 :22, when Paul got to Rome, the Jews there said this to him about Christianity

    But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.

    Nothing has changed fellas! Almost 2000 years later, Christianity is still spoken against. You chaps are part of a large company who speak against Christ, his doctrine and his people.

    However, note that verse 24 points out that SOME BELIEVED!
    : “And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.”

    Some believe even today. The best folk I know are believers!

    Note Paul’s conclusion in verses 25-27:

    25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    Seems you guys are having the same hearing and understanding problems.

  38. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Hopi and other ‘scoffers’ would you all be able to sit with Court of Appeal Justices’ while they are assiduously going over an appeal case, using their acquired Legal training and experience, referencing their case history volumes? Would you Hopi, and other self-appointed, pseudo know-it-all’s understand any of the Legal jargon these qualified High Court Justices’ are deliberating on?

    Or, would you be able to sit with a team of Physician Specialists in a Hospital, while they are going over myriad test done on a very sick patient, and understand or make any sense of the medical jargon, terms, etc., while they are arriving at their diagnosis? Certainly not! For you would just make a complete fool of youself.

    Well, this is exactly what you are doing here; neither of you are historians, let alone Church Historians; nor are you trained in Comparative Religion, Bible or Theology; yet you are attempting to pontificate on matters that your are grossly ignorant of.

    No wonder then, for you are emphatically demonstrating without any doubt whatsoever, your ASININE propensity, with alarming alacrity, steadfasting proving and confirming your ignorance, coupled with arrogance, on such matters!

    But, as Anon has said, we don’t know how many others are quietly reading and learning, while not saying a word. So then, we see you all, as just another ‘door’ by which to enlighten many others, who are willing to learn the truth!

  39. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Keep up the insults

    It speaks volumes more than you have even written (and that is saying something)

  40. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    The church never seems to handle dissent very well.

  41. Not Saved Avatar
    Not Saved

    Zoe and Anon,

    Why does your magical, “divinely inspired” NT not unequivocally and outright condemn human slavery?

    Can you tell me?

    And after you give me your convoluted answer, consider that there is a more simple, parsimonious answer, one of course that you would never accept.

    Anon you wrote :

    ” You chaps are part of a large company who speak against Christ, his doctrine and his people.”

    Really? where have I done this?

    I dont believe your supernatural story anymore than you dont believe in thousand of stories about thousand of other gods.

    Dont extrapolate. Just deal with the fact than people are entitled to a viewpoint at odds with yours.

  42. AFRIKAN ROYALTY Avatar
    AFRIKAN ROYALTY

    IT IS TRUE IF YOU HAVE TO DEPEND ON A BUNCH EUROPEAN SO CALLED “SCHOLARS” TO TELL YOU ABOUT SOME BLOND HAIRED PALE SKIN MUTINIOD I CAN CLEARLY SEE WHERE YOU STAND THE FACT REMAINS KEMIT WAS BEFORE ALL OF THE SHOLARS YOU HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE THE COUNCIL OF NICEA WHO FIRST PUT YOUR BIBLE TOGETHER ACTUALLY THEY STOLE WHAT THEY KNEW FROM KEMIT YOU CAN KEEP THE PALE SKIN BLOMD HAIRED BLUE EYE CRACKER MY ENEMY CAN NEVER BE MY DIETY

  43. AFRIKAN ROYALTY Avatar
    AFRIKAN ROYALTY

    YOU NEED TO GO TO KEMI AND SE THE TRUTH WRITTE BY THE TRUE MASTERS NOT OUR ENSLAVERS

  44. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @BU Family…

    Sigh…

  45. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Why does your magical, “divinely inspired” NT not unequivocally and outright condemn human slavery?
    Can you tell me?
    ———————————————-
    The NT does not speak about human slavery per se simply because that is not its purpose. Have you ever seen discussions of Geography in an English text?

    The NT, however, adresses how one may become free from the bondage of sin and death through believing in Christ.

    Even you can see that this is a silly question. It is not a logical question.

  46. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @BU Family…

    Impressive…

    “AFRIKAN ROYALTY” provides a link to (and I quote (exactly)): “bajan.wordpress.om”. (Please note the missing “C” in the “COM”…

    They can’t even get the TLD (Top Level Domain) right. And even if they had, it wouldn’t be their own domain…

    And we should trust them, exactly, WHY???

    LOL…

  47. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Hopi, Isaiah 7:14, “Therefore the Lord will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.”

    The immediate historical context when spoken by Isaiah, was a prophetic ‘sign’ given to Ahaz as an assurance of Judah’s hope in the midst of adversity. It therefore had an immediate, historic fulfillment. Its usage in the NT shows that it also has a messianic fulfillment.

    Messianically, it irrefutably refers to the Virgin Mary (Matt 1:23; Luke 1:27).

    The Eternal ‘Word’ (John 1:1-5), became flesh, (man) and dwelt among us, The Lord Jesus Christ.

    “For God so loved the world (mankind) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16).

    Regarding Matthew 1:16 -17 v Luke 3:23-38.

    The two Gospel genealogies of Jesus; Matthew traces the lineage of Jesus from Abraham through Joseph ( Matt 1:1-16), although he is careful to point out that Joseph WAS NOT Jesus’ actual father (v.18). Matthew follows the legal Jewish system in giving the genealogy of the father even though Joseph was father only by adoption. Matthew’s purpose in recording the genealogy was twofold. 1] to demonstrate continuity between the Israel of the OT and Jesus, 2] to demonstrate Jesus’ royal lineage (Son of David) and His link with the founder of the Jewish race (Son of Abraham). Matthew’s purpose, since he was writing for a Jewish audience, was to prove that Jesus was the promised Messiah; sspecifically stating that Jesus was the ‘supposed’ son of Joseph.

    Luke on the other hand, ascends the family line all the way to Adam, thus identifying Jesus universally with the human race. Some Bible commentators account for the differencs in the two genealogies by assuming that Matthew gives the legal line of royal descent, while Luke gives the lineage of Mary, the only human parent of Jesus. If this is the case, Joseph may be recokoned as the son of her father Heli through marriage (v.23).

    Regarding Jesus’ birthday, as celebrated on December 25th, no where mentioned in Scripture, as His birth, though Historic, as this is when the Eternal Word, (Jh 1:1-5) entered time and space, and Immanuel (God with us) became flesh, as prophesied by Isaiah 7:14, to offer Himself, sacrifically as our ‘substitute’ to die in our stead, to pay the ultimate penalty for OUR SINS.

    But, we are not told to celebrate His birth, by honouring any specific day; therefore I and many other Christians do not get caught up in this celebration, which is so secularized any way. To any true believer, we honour Him EVERY DAY of the week.

    Now, regarding your question about the SUN v the SON of God; who created ALL things, (John 1:3; Col 1:16-17) I understand that in God’s creation, He made the Sun for a purpose vis-a-vis life on earth; BUT, I will never ascribe any other significance to the Sun, other than that biological fact; as the Son of God is the true and real LIFE source, especially the ‘spiritual’ aspect of our existence, as He the SON, created the Sun, and holds IT in His hand like an atom!

    To do what you are doing in ascribing some other mystic, esoteric meaning to the Sun, is tantamount to idolatry, as God’s Word states:

    “Professing themselves to be wise; they became fools…who exchanged the TRUTH of God for a LIE, and worshipped and served the creature (what was created, i.e., the Sun) rather than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen.” (Rom. 1: 22,25).

    Now, Hopi, do you know that DARKNESS is NOT something?

    Darkness is NOT something; it IS the ABSENCE of something!

    You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, BUT if you have NO LIGHT constantly you then have NOTHING, and it’s called DARKNESS. Darkness is the word we use to define that nothingness. In reality, darkness ISN’T! If it were, you would be able tom make darkness darker, wouldn’t you.

    This is where the concept of duality, as believed by some, is a faulty premise. As those who hold to this false concept, argue there is LIFE and then there is DEATH; a good God and a bad God. In this erroneous thinking, you are viewing the concept of God as something finite, somethinh we can measure. Science cannot even explain a ‘thought’. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has NEVER seen, much less fully understand either one.

    Therefore, to view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that DEATH cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death IS NOT the opposite of LIFE, it is the very ABSENCE of it. Just like darkness, it IS the absence of LIGHT.

    Likewise EVIL does not exist unto itself, Evil is simply the ABSSENCE of God. It is just like darkness and cold, all words that man has created to describe the absence of God.

    God did not create evil; evil is a result of what happens when man DOES NOT have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there IS NO heat or, darkness when there is NO LIGHT!

    This was taken from Science v God, when an atheist Professor of philosophy sought to make a fool of one of his students asking question about God, and the student being a Christian, and a good science student, gave him some answers re Heat v Cold, Light v Darkness, and Evil v Good.

    Good sound scientific, philosophical reasoning!

  48. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @Zoe // April 1, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    “Good sound scientific, philosophical reasoning!

    @Zoe: This was taken from Science v God, when an atheist Professor of philosophy sought to make a fool of one of his students asking question about God

    *I*, CHalsall, call bullshit upon Zoe…

    @Zoe: I personally challenge you to elaborate, and document, your immediately above claims.

    (The fact you’re an anonymous coward shouldn’t limit your ability to answer my challenge…)

    What says you?

  49. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Zoe……I can answer yes to your questions as it relates to those professions because I am not intimidated by anyone and I refuse to be bamboozled with jargon. You, on the other hand refused to answer those two question that I’ve posed to you @ 10:47am. You have enough time just sit with your bible and honestly answer them. That’s all.
    If you have facts you don’t need faith.

    Let me drop you a little something on the SUN and the SON. Let’s start with the winter solstice. SOL is the latin for SUN. The winter solstice is the time when the earth’s axis is tilting fartherest away from the sun and during this period the SUN makes it descent southward and around Dec 22, it seems to have disappeared or died, then on the 3rd day being Dec 25th,it rises again and starts it northward journey. Doesn’t this sound familiar in the Christian theology i.e Jesus Christ the Son being born on the 25th of December and being dead for three days after which he rises on the 3rd day. And the original Afrikan calendar began its constellation in Virgo hence the Christian Son was born of a Virgin. The SUN of God was the most high at 12 noon and hence, at the age of 12 he began his father’s work. The SUN enters each sign of the zodiac at a 30*angle and hence you have the Son entering the ministry at age 30. There are 12 signs of the zodiac and the Son had 12 disciples. Zoe, is this just a coincidence or did your folks get it all wrong?

  50. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    CHalsall

    You have a penchant for challenging folk on this forum to do this and do that when matters about Christ are being discussed. But I have never seen you give any coherent logical refutation of anything discussed.

    If you are an atheist or agnostic or just a fool [ i.e the Bible says THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD] that is understandable. You have a right to your view. So do we to ours.

    FYI. Most people who post on this forum do so Anonymously. This does not make them cowards. I can tell you that my name is Jonathan Browne, but does that mean that that is so? How do I know that you are who you say you are? And does it really matter who you are?

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

    Trending

    Discover more from Barbados Underground

    Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

    Continue reading