For ROK and Hopi and others who doubt the usefulness of universal vaccination, I heard that a little boy died from chicken pox last week and was buried today.

J

I want you to know that I believe in the usefulness of vaccines, but not the over-use of vaccinations.

I would consider vaccines as old technology. What David is aiming at here is how we can use the knowledge we have gained by modern technology, to our benefit.

Clearly, it is the domain of doctors to educate patients; they have the knowledge. It is also the domain of doctors to work with other medical services, production, research and practices; it can only make everybody better and more efficient.

I put it to you, David, that doctors should rely on their fees and not on selling drugs. They should consider that if they educate their patients, there would be less fear of doctors and actually more confidence in doctors if they impart lifetime lessons to people; they may see less patients but less stress too. The high fees would become worth it.

They should consider that to hold on to the opinion that people have to get sick for them to get rich, is inhumane. That is a myth. They may get richer if they educate the people.

This would be the effect of doctors pulling their weight:

1. Local farmers would benefit and the high demand for vegetables would fetch a better market price.

2. Our food bill would go down as more Bajans start to prize local fruits, vegetables and produce.

3. Fast food outlets would be forced to upgrade the quality of their food to meet the demand of a more conscious consumer.

4. Our health bill would be considerably reduced as we reduce importation of drugs.

5. Less loss of man hours because more people are healthy and more efficiency on the job and because they have more energy and feel less stressed; to help us raise the bar on standards of service.

Quite simply, there is a positive ripple effect that touches social cohesiveness, education performance in youth; and economic activity (more jobs and self-employment).

We can only conclude that a change in the role of doctors would lead to a whole new life, a shift in an old paradigm that still “captivates” us today.

LOl…Im still waiting to hear who are these unfeeling rich doctors and who make up this majority of doctors that do no pro bono work…
I want to know how you know that they are unfeeling.

I want to know if they ( the expensive ones hide their fees then surprise you)

Id also like to know which doctors and how many dod not educate their patients. In addition how do you know that they dont?

Also explain to me why many people still insist on using Bayview instead of the ‘Free’ QEH?

I agree with you.

But option #3 is certainly most fool hardy.

Rok
Your little essay reminds me of the drivel we used to write in English composition class at school.

You suggest that if the doctors would pull their weight according to your dogma, that local farmers would benefit and the high demand for vegetables would fetch a better market price. This is an obvious non secquitur. Who is to say that local farmers would plant the produce that is most desirable. Who is to say that the retail sector can not source the relevant food cheaper abroad? Would not the HIGH demand for vegetables fetch a better market price ONLY if supply is scarce according to basic Economics? You are of course familiar with the law of supply and demand right?

If the Ministry of Agriculture cannot successfully promote the prizing of local fruits, vegetables and produce, why do you think that doctors should spend time on this endeavor? Why do you think that they will be more successful than the MOA in helping to reduce the food bill in this way?

There is so much in popular magazines and on the internet for our populace to choose a healthier lifestyle as you put it. If folk are not availing themselves of such now, why do you think that doctors will change any thing? Do you think that because they are called doctors, that all doctors are effective teachers?

Explain succinctly how fast food outlets would be forced to upgrade the quality of their food to meet the demand of a more conscious consumer? We have been taught about AIDS since its “discovery” in 1981. Has teaching really made a dent in the incidence or prevalence of this disease on our shores. .

How do you know that our health bill would be considerably reduced as we reduce importation of drugs? Wont be then be spending the money on the latest preparations that the alternative practioneers peddle for antiaging, or wrinkled skin or whatever?.

You think that healthier folk will want to work more or play more?
Who told you that the youth are generally interested in education performance in youth?

Really! Really! Really Rok, the omniscient—and that is sarcasm OK? I don’t agree that your diatribe leads to the ONLY conclusion is that that a change in the role of doctors would lead to a whole new life.

Like David, your rhethoric is good, but your argument is bull shit.

Anon

You compartmentalising this issue. Like politicians, you are well paid. Unlike most of them, you are paid, not for a term or two, but a lifetime.

Please, don’t talk about pro bono work. Lots of people do it. Not a doctor ain’t come and help we in the C&W hearing nor in this one neither with BL&P. You going be making you money while we up there (I could hear you now) like idiots. Nobody ain’t send we to do that?

However, you may not need it but will more than likely reap the benefits… and I am sure that not one doctor will donate a sheet of paper and we have been crying for help.

@J….OMG!!!OMG! Where? when? how?why? You think I should run out and get some of that pus injected into my offsprings’ blood stream? Wha do you think?

Oh mighty ROK! Here you go again spouting drivel . Please do some reading? Really really really

As you make your assumptions…as usual, you seem to think that ONLY YOU CAN READ OR HAVE READ.

You write

If vegetables become prized and demand is great and we could almost reach the level of a guaranteed market price, then more people would get into farming.

This is another nonsequitur. Who tell you that folk want to farm? Who says that the guaranteed market price will be the optimum price to induce folk to farm?

You can not prove that local farmers would plant the produce that is most desirable.
You can not prove that the retail sector can not source the relevant food cheaper abroad.
You can not deny that a HIGH demand for vegetables would fetch a better market price ONLY if supply is scarce according to the law of supply and demand.
You can not prove that the doctors will be more successful than the Ministry of Agriculture in promoting the use of local fruits, vegetables and produce, nor can you prove that they do not do so now.
You can not prove that because they are called doctors, that all doctors are effective teachers? And that they can do the teaching you theorize they ought to do as the solution to all of our health ills.
You can not prove that healthier folk will want to work more rather than play more?
You have not entertained none of the reasonable issues raised, as you can only see your very very narrow view point.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT ONLY YOU CAN READ OR HAVE READ.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT ANY ONE THAT QUESTIONS YOUR DRIVEL IS ANTI BARBADOS? OR CIA? MI5?

The doctors will do as they wish, and niether you nor David can do anything about it. You can talk til the cows come home!

Rok

The man running you ragged man. He has asked some good questions to counter your initial arguments, that are worth exploring. But you have been unable to rebut his counter points. Where are your debating skills? You act as though you must be allowed to say what you wish, and no one is to respond to what you say. It is your bubble that has been burst Rocky ma boy. It looks from here that it is YOU who are one of those people who don’t like others to talk Rocky ma boy. Examine yourself man.

How do you know that the man (woman) is even a doctor? Or in a comfort zone?

As you say Any activity that will bring in money people will do: including doctors selling medication or even samples LOL. As you say all kinds of things if they perceive it profitable. Why should doctors be different? LOL

Why should doctors save lives free of cost? How do doctors have people helpless? They have free medical services in Barbados. Not so? Free doctor, free medicine, free tests. What you complaining bout.

FYI before the advent of drugs as we know it today many lives were lost. Not so? Bet you didn’t know that?

It is drivel to say that “you got people helpless and supporting the very drugs that killing people and if that was not happening, you would not have so much saving to do.
You would catch afire my house and then run and get your fire engine to out it and then tell me that you save my house?” Examine yourself man. Examine yourself

Rocky ma boy the man give you a whipping today!

There is a reason why we have labeled the medical profession as ‘noble’. To whom much is given much is expected. We don’t accept that the ethos which permeates from the medical profession should be initiated in pure economics. If that is the case then there is no hope.

Some would use our comments about the medical profession to conclude that we are bashing. We know enough about the practices by some doctors in Barbados to be concerned.

Unfortunately Barbadians are so passive when standing up for their rights and being aggressive about their expectations. Having said that we must admire the unswerving defense of the profession by some members of the BU family who are obviously of that profession.

Hopi wrote on January 23, 2009 at 4:03 pm

“OMG!!!OMG! Where? when? how?why? …you think I should run out and get some of that pus injected into my offsprings’ blood stream?

A 13 year old boy at Combermere school.

But you are living comfortably in the U.S. and there is no way that you would live in Barbados and give up access to some of the best medical care in the world so you can afford to make sport of us Bajans.

Your child did not die.

The majority if not all of the professionals, be it doctors, lawyers, not to exclude our religious quacks, their first priority seems to be to get as much money out of our citizens as humanly possible by any means necessary.

To anon-
Could you tell me if ALL of our doctors in Bim were required to take the ENTIRE “Hippocratic Oath” or were they allowed to omit paragraphs such as:

1. “My professional judgment will be exercised as independently as possible and not be influenced by political pressures or by factors such as the social standing of the patient. I WILL NOT PUT PERSONAL PROFIT OR ADVANCEMENT ABOVE MY DUTY TO PATIENTS. ”

2. “I will ensure patients receive the information and support they want to make decisions about disease prevention and improvement of their health. I will answer as truthfully as I can and respect patients’ decisions unless that puts others at risk of harm. IF I CANNOT AGREE WITH THEIR REQUESTS, I WILL EXPLAIN WHY.”

I know for sure that the last sentence is NOT carried out.

Theses medical professionals whether it is the ones just entering practice or the old biddies, I would agree that their fees are somewhat high. They make the argument that the fees they charge pay for the loans towards their education costs and pay their insurance costs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, it is ironic that some general practitioners charge equally or very little less than the specialists.

Based on a culmination of factors which the citizens can’t seem to do anything about, I think it is a downright shame that the medical profession in Barbados is truly nothing to be proud of.

Con’t @ J……I try to avoid doctors at all costs. Try to eat organically whenever possible, keep my rat-infested surroundings clean etc…etc…I do not trust/respect doctors, lawyers, so called professionals,and the list goes on…..they are too damn self-important.

Did this 13yr old die from chicken pox? Was he vaccinated against it?

Nowadays the doctors buying a simple machine to check your heart -ECG – then they buy a glacuometer to test your sugar, – next the cholestrol machine and everytime you visit them they want you to pay for a cholestrol test,a sugar test,,they push you to do an ECG,and before you know it that machine done get paid back for in 6 months yet they raking in money charging you high amounts for these tests – which sometimes are not always needed as often.

The younger doctors are the ones who seem to want to make money fast,while the older ones are like old relics because they would not go and do refresher courses and keep up to date.

I think of the case made by the former minister of health david estwick about dr brian charles.

Why would a doctor who is head of the medical services (brian charles) also want to be the representative for the insurance brookers covering the QEH.

Then the same doctor is the medical rep for CERO,and for the Prisons,and for the Defence Force.

I mean pleassee – isn’t that a clear case of trying to grab everything for yourself and not being able to offer anyone of the party quality service?

@Bonny Peppa. Good mawning yaself! I too would like to know what killed him.

@ anon

“BU or ROK have no right to determine what doctors should charge…”

That is so true. We decide how much we will pay, but those unfortunate who don’t think they have a choice, you can dictate to them.

This idea that people should fork out their hard earned money without question, is nothing short of inhumane and arrogant. You think you have the right to charge what you want and people must pay, without quantifying the value of what you are doing. Anything that you do is worth gold? Later for you. It is not worth it for me.

@ROK….I hope they have a rep from the parasite industries i.e, the medical mafia and the cigarette companies who make a killing from cigarettes and since you represent the people I hope you let em have it. As your supporting evidence, take along a few people who have been harmed by cigarettes directly/indirectly.

@Hopi,

I do not know any non-smoker who was harmed by cigarette smoke in Barbados. Please tell me about at least one. Not talking about asthma triggers. A host of things trigger asthma, including healthy foods.

Would dearly love these statistics otherwise there is a hole in the argument to ban in all public places, especially those that are not enclosed.

David,

I would like to stop having to inhale air with vehicle exhaust smoke in it. Let’s see how simple that is.

@ROK……And here I am ASSuming that you would support a non-polluted environment. Talk about ‘foot-in-the-mouth.’

Sapidillo

Can you indicate the parameters by which you will decide whether one should be proud of the medical profession in Barbados?

Certainly you can get to see a doctor easily in Bim. Its damn hard even in the USA even if you have insurance. Not always easy to get an appointment.

UWI doctors, as far as I know do not take the Oath of Hippocrates. They take a more relevant oath. Why should any one take such an out dated oath as printed below. After all old things are irrelevant today, such as for example the teachings of the Bible. You want one with out the other?

Here is the original Oath of Hippocrates
The full text from the “Harvard Classics” Translation.

I SWEAR by Apollo the physician and AEsculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation — to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgement, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons labouring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further, from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional service, or not in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times. But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot.

Tell me Sappy where did you get your amendments to the oath which you quoted?

@ Bonny Peppa

Shingles is a reactivation of the herpes zoster virus or varicella zoster virus, which is the same virus causes the childhood illness chickenpox. The chicken pox virus can remain in a dormant state in the body in the root of nerves that control sensation. When, after many years after the chickenpox infection the virus is reactivated , the virus travels along a sensory nerve into the skin causing a painful rash known as shingles.

This illness is called shingles to describe the distribution of the rash in a broad band- usually only on one side of the body that represents a dermatome—the area that a single sensory nerve supplies in the skin.

(The term “Shingles” is derived from the Latin and French words for belt or girdle. Anyone who has had the chickenpox infection or vaccine can get the herpes zoster virus that causes shingles. Older people and those with cancer, HIV, or organ transplants have a decreased ability to fight off infection and a greater chance of getting shingles. The majority of people with shingles, however, are healthy.

Shingles can be very very painfull!

Straight from the horses mouth….’Anyone who has had chickenpox or vaccine can get herpes zoster virus that causes shingles.’

anon

you are full of it. Obviously you are the omniscient one. Good thing that cancer, diabetes, etc. are not contageous. How much higher is the incidence of HIV/AIDS; or is it.

anon // January 24, 2009 at 5:32 pm

Tell me Sappy where did you get your amendments to the oath which you quoted?
————————————————————————————————–
The following was sent to me by someone in the field. Here it is in part

UPDATE
The British Medical Association, in March 1997, published their first draft of a revised Hippocratic Oath to be considered by the World Medical Association.
“The Oath, a set of ethical principles derived from the writings of the ancient Greek physician Hippocrates, has been updated to put patients first. It aims to be a unifying force, superseding national, ethnic, religious and cultural boundaries by focusing on widely shared values.
The new wording can be adapted by nurses, paramedics and other health professionals.”
Commenting on the revised wording, Dr Sandy Macara, chairman of the BMA Council, said:
“It is as important now as ever it was for doctors to have an agreed statement of ethical principles. On qualifying, doctors need such a statement to make a public commitment to the professional responsibilities they are assuming. Thereafter these principles should provide guidance in the increasingly difficult ethical decisions they will make throughout their professional lives.
“The value of this update will be all the greater if it comes into use by every doctor qualifying from every medical school in the world.”
The BMA has been campaigning for the past five years for a revitalisation of the Hippocratic values. It has gathered examples of ethical codes from all over the world and common points from these have been integrated into the new wording.
The BMA has undertaken this work on behalf of the World Medical Association as the first stage of a revision of the current international code of medical ethics, the Geneva Declaration, which celebrates its 50th anniversary next year.
Appendix I
DRAFT REVISION OF THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH
The practice of medicine is a privilege which carries important responsibilities. All doctors should observe the core values of the profession which centre on the duty to help sick people and to avoid harm. I promise that my medical knowledge will be used to benefit people’s health. They are my first concern. I will listen to them and provide the best care I can. I will be honest, respectful and compassionate towards patients. In emergencies, I will do my best to help anyone in medical need.
I will make every effort to ensure that the rights of all patients are respected, including vulnerable groups who lack means of making their needs known, be it through immaturity, mental incapacity, imprisonment or detention or other circumstance.
My professional judgement will be exercised as independently as possible and not be influenced by political pressures nor by factors such as the social standing of the patient. I will not put personal profit or advancement above my duty to patients.
I will ensure patients receive the information and support they want to make decisions about disease prevention and improvement of their health. I will answer as truthfully as I can and respect patients’ decisions unless that puts others at risk of harm. If I cannot agree with their requests, I will explain why.
If my patients have limited mental awareness, I will still encourage them to participate in decisions as much as they feel able and willing to do so.
I will do my best to maintain confidentiality about all patients. If there are overriding reasons which prevent my keeping a patient’s confidentiality I will explain them.