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Submitted by Yardbroom

Recently a Barbados Government Official said that slaves and their masters travelled the Atlantic to Barbados on the same ship – or words to that effect – in essence they had the same experience; he was castigated…some would say with good reason. I understood what the official wanted to say, but he put it so clumsily that the message was lost.ย  There was interference in transmission; as a result the message’s deeper meaning was sidelined into a tributary of sand.

That we – whites and blacks – came from different lands and have found ourselves on the same rock is true.ย  That we should try to accommodate each other, and try as best as we can to make Barbados a better place in the 21st century is also true.ย  That we should be able to debate or discuss slavery without seeingย a slave master in every white face is also true.ย  However, it should also be true that the interaction between whites and blacks in Barbados should not be a few rounds above a slavery relationship; and blacks should not be seen as slaves in remission.

Slavery should not be an unmentionable word; we will only have put the demon of slavery to rest when the issue can be freely discussed.ย  You cannot dismiss “history” as if it never happened, there is no reason to be uncomfortable about it.ย  One of the reasons why slavery is not openly discussed in Barbados is simply because some of us have not mentally adjusted to the transition.ย  We like to think we have, but honestly we have not.

Some white Barbadians often say, “why have we got to harp back to slavery, why can’t we move on?”ย  Some black Barbadians do not want to be reminded that their foreparents were slaves; the memories are still raw and do not sit comfortable with the middle class professional status, and in some cases wealth.

You can acknowledge the elephant in the room or pretend it is not there, but ever so often it will trumpet and you have to notice its presence…perhaps at an inconvenient time.ย  Or you can acknowledge its presence even feed it a few green leaves, and there will be harmony of mind and body.

I find it rather surprising that some religious black Barbadians say they don’t want to be “reminded” of slavery because of the suffering of black people; and yet they do not mind being constantly “reminded” of the crucifixion of Christ on the cross, because his suffering, strengthens their faith.ย  Remembrance has not always got to be painful, it can give cause for “reflection” and strengthen us mentally.

Now the Government official again, it would be arrogant of me to suggest that he did not know what he was talking about…he surely did, perhaps the message was not quite clear.ย  The people who travelled to Barbados in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were in different categories.ย  There were a few who did not even travel, they allowed agents to do that but their fingers were still in the pie; as many grand country houses in England can testify.ย  They were investors, looking for a good return on their capital investment.ย  Then there were landowners, planters, indentured labourers/servants, slaves, Christiansย and many others too numerous to mention here.ย  The only method of transport was by ship and thus so they came.

Of the above-mentioned groups the slaves had no choice, they were also seen as not “quite human”.ย  For those who seek to refute the above and try to equate indentured labourers/servants with slaves that is a non-starter.ย  Brevity limits further exposition here.

Slavery is as much a part of who we are as any culture we seek to associate with in Africa.ย  Slavery was with us in the plantations of Barbados, perhaps some of us do not want to be reminded of the elephant in the room, but it is sitting there, regardless of if we like it or not, and we cannot wish it away.

We should be proud Barbadians, confident of who we are, know our past and history and be able to take our place among other nationalities.ย  It is by understanding that and looking at what we have achieved and hope to achieve in the future we can be a proud people, “all” of us.

I will leave the final word to the Government official perhaps he meant… we should be able to successfully accommodate Barbadians of all shades in Barbados, from the very black to those who are white – and the shades in between – without advantage or handicap, because that is not our history, but it is our “future”, it is who we are.


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209 responses to “Barbadian Slaves, Masters And The Atlantic Journey: People In A Ship”


  1. John you do not see sides that’s great man, I would like to be the same but like ROK how can I.

    Records will show that every other species of man in the world, whether Black African, or Himalayan or Inca, Inuit, Sioux, Mandarin, Arab or Indian (not the Japanese, they were wise to them) have opened their homes to White people. It is the White species, kith and kin of the White Bajan that have taken advantage of the hospitality by exploiting these peoples, shoving religion and democracy down their throats and exterminating a good few of them, as they raped, stole and burned their way through history.

    You see, your approach to life is as it should be, but with a history of such brutal success, do you think that Whites (particularly males) will see integration and your approach as a natural follow on? About 70% of the votes that the Republicans expect to get in the upcoming Presidential race in the US will come from White males. Why? They love a Government that is prepared to go out there and beat up on defenceless peoples around the world. Sure makes them feel good.

    Lock โ€˜n Load dude!


  2. Deng Xiaping

    Man you is a funny Chinee. I’ve got a girl that I want you to meet. Her name is Fu Pingyoug. I’ll send you a pic if I you want.


  3. ROK // September 8, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    John

    Where we start to draw the line is at 12 generations a maximum of 14. Need not go any further back. Here is where the criminals started perpetrating and the victims started suffering.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The more you write the more I become convinced you have not got a clue what you are writing about and have not really thought out your position.

    Answer me this question.

    When do you think Europeans first started to make contact with Africa?


  4. John,

    When Europeans started making contact with Africans is the topic of another debate. It just is not relevant to what we are discussing.

    You are behaving like a typical white man. It is hard to think of you otherwise, given the position you are constantly holding. It also looks like you don’t have an ounce of African blood in you because nothing that you say gives any quarter to the fact of slavery.

    Like a typical white man, you seek to explain it away without any remorse and then turn around and blame black people for it so that you come out on top. Taking a sip from a black cistern don’t make you black; as you so well demonstrate.


  5. ROK // September 8, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    John,

    When Europeans started making contact with Africans

    *******************

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, ROC, now ur hinting at the reason for the destruction of the black race because it was from that moment that black women saw straight, white-people’s hair for the first time, and their white skin and suddenly, and ever since, thought that their own hair, and indeed, they, themselves were and ARE ugly!! Thus the face-lightening cream, powder, straight-hair, long fingernails, painted-fingernails, dyed-hair, etc!! This was the beginning of our destruction and vain-glorious, black people have thought ourselves repulsive, ever since!! It’s a clever, psychological-defeat and many of us don’t even realise that we’ve been defeated!!


  6. ROK

    I notice you evade the question by claiming it to be irrelevant.

    I am going to suggest to you that Europeans are descended from Africans and all are human beings which is what I was trying to point out by starting at the present and working backwards.

    It is generally accepted that mankind has its origins in Africa.

    I am going to suggest that being of one and the same blood, the two are one.

    Next two questions:

    How is a crime against humanity defined?

    Who gets punished for a crime against humanity?


  7. John,

    I leave Bimbro to you but your answer is truly the one I wanted to avoid. See where you going? forever going? Keep going and see if you get any salvation from that. That is a cop out.

    You see a report that Itally just agreed to pump US$200M in investment a year for the next five years as reparations for its occupation of Iraq from 1911 – 1943 (dates may be wrong but not too far out, trying to recall from memory) and for the mass killing of its people and other heneous crimes against the people of Iraq?

    I think your problem is that you watch too much TV. You think that a person must be responsible for a crime against humanity, but let me tell you, if that person dies or there are too many to identify; or even if there is no proof of who actually did it, the offending country pays. Especially if it gained economically from its plundering of another sovereign nation. They call it reparations.

    In the courts, a parent will be charged with the damages incurred by its child. With an adult who is penniless and has family with money the family may pay, even though not obligated, but at least as a family they accept that one of their members has done wrong.

    You playing cold-hearted and insensitive. You are literally being the devil’s advocate. Yes Bimbro, they thought he was God but it turned out to be the devil; Cast out from Heaven and corrupt earth.

    Even then, I am not sure that they thought he was God. I think that he took advantage of the hospitality, overstayed his time, and because he saw the respect meted out by these people to other races (which is what also happened to the Incas); these naive white men, decided that since these people showed reverence, they will play God, and we even believing that.

    I would be more than surprised if it was anything more than that. I will also bet you that if the white man happened to be another King of Africa, he would have been given the same welcome.

    Just see the reverence and respect which Pharoah gave to the Queens and Kings of African cultures and also see that there is always reciprocity… but the white man in his arrogance decided to play God in order to feed his greed.

    But you know what Bimbro, when my people give bad customer service, it reminds me of the wounds they still have even though they ain’t get a lash.

    I would suggest that maybe we all as consumers (because even the servers become customers and complain of the same thing they perpetrate), should teach ourselves and become mindful of the way we would want to be served. I have seen some customers cause severs to change attitudes; at least for a while. We need more of such conscious customers too and not only trained servers.


  8. ROK

    There must actually be a definition of what a crime against humanity is otherwise how would a court convict anyone. of such a crime.

    Here is what Wikipedia says:

    In public international law, a crime against humanity is an act of persecution or any large scale atrocities against a body of people, and is the highest level of criminal offense.[1]

    The Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity “are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of falling into the category of crimes under discussion.”[2]


  9. The site goes on to relate the first uses and to speak about the International Criminal Court in the Hague which was established in 2002.

    International Criminal Court
    In 2002, the International Criminal Court (ICC) was established in The Hague (Netherlands) and the Rome Statute provides for the ICC to have jurisdiction over genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The definition of what is a “crime against humanity” for ICC proceedings has significantly broadened from its original legal definition or that used by the UN,[1] and Article 7 of the treaty stated that:

    For the purpose of this Statute, “crime against humanity” means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack[13]:

    (a) Murder;
    (b) Extermination;
    (c) Enslavement;
    (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
    (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
    (f) Torture;
    (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
    (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
    (i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
    (j) The crime of apartheid;
    (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.
    The Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity

    are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of meriting the stigma attaching to the category of crimes under discussion. On the other hand, an individual may be guilty of crimes against humanity even if he perpetrates one or two of the offences mentioned above, or engages in one such offence against only a few civilians, provided those offences are part of a consistent pattern of misbehavior by a number of persons linked to that offender (for example, because they engage in armed action on the same side or because they are parties to a common plan or for any similar reason.) Consequently when one or more individuals are not accused of planning or carrying out a policy of inhumanity, but simply of perpetrating specific atrocities or vicious acts, in order to determine whether the necessary threshold is met one should use the following test: one ought to look at these atrocities or acts in their context and verify whether they may be regarded as part of an overall policy or a consistent pattern of an inhumanity, or whether they instead constitute isolated or sporadic acts of cruelty and wickedness.[2]


  10. … now, all we have to figure out is who gets into trouble and bears the responsibility for such a crime!!

    Be back later whith some history!


  11. John,

    I hope you see why I did not want to go into that. It is needless at this point and for the argument, but I grant you it is an education for some. So I would not deny them. They will get a clearer understanding of reparations.

    My prime motivator is to see what it would take for you to have remorse. Keep playing the attorney for the devil. Love it! You will convict your own client. I have to admit that you are one lawyer with a conscience. You leave me with nothing to present.

    Let me give you a guide as to how entrenched it was. First, the so-called “motherland” benefitted from the activity and did little to curb it. The wealth they ammasses from then is still intact now and still benefitting that country; check the EPAs.

    Second, the laws that laid on the statute books, check things like the Vagrancy Act and other legislation specifically targetting blacks. Check also the records of debates in the British Parliament, US Assembly and others.

    Let us also look at visual documentation of amenities indicating discrimination and cruelty. Where the courts sentence a black man to death and the courtroom attendees lynched him on the spot and it was not seen as being against the law. Those doing the lynching was not arrested and the law makers the “police” and the judiciary all were spectators.

    There was indeed national participation and they profitted from it. Carry on smartly. Give us some more history.


  12. John

    Want to share this quote with you. My emphasis is on the last sentence of this article from the Gleaner:

    “Chelsea’s pregnancy would have been lambasted as an example of poor parenting and a lack of moral grounding by the Clintons and the younger Obama would be presented as a typical black slut who cannot keep her knickers on.

    “Worse yet, had the Obamas paraded their pregnant teenage daughter at their party’s biggest political event in the national spotlight, they would have been torn to shreds for having no sense of what is right and decent. But, the Palins are white Republicans, so the accusation of MORAL relativism usually targeted at the Democrats does not apply.”


  13. What’s the matter, ROC? Are n’t u impressed by my reason for being ‘proud’ to b a Bajan?!! Does the truth hurt you, bro!! Well, I’m sorry about that but they’re the same people who not so long, ago u were quite happy to describe as civilised!! Sorry, if I’ve burst your bubble!!


  14. Another merry go round racism topic, that has the same comments passed, the same insults made, the same facts and fictions spoken, and ends up doing nothing.

    I am a Bajan, born of Bajan parents, whose parents were also Bajans. All of whom most would consider white.
    I consider my current Doctor to be a gentle giant, who originally comes from a sister caribbean nation, but has lived in Barbados for many years. Most would consider him black. Prior to him I had a Bajan Doctor who some considered coloured, and prior to him my pediatric doctor was a Bajan who most would consider black.
    I have only ever needed the services of an attorney-at-law on one occaison. He is a Bajan. Most would consider him white.
    I went to school at St. Angelas, which was/is considered a “white school” (funny that the buildings are a variety of colours other than white) then onto to Foundation. At both schools I had alot of Bajan friends, some considered white, most considered black, some were considered indian.
    I now work in a company where all the employees are Bajan. Some would consider 43% of the staff Black, 43% of the staff white, and 14% of the staff coloured.

    People can stick whatever labels they wish on things, but it means little. As Bob Marley said, “Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds.”

    I am a Bajan, born of Bajan parents, whose parents were also Bajans.
    My Doctor is my doctor.
    My Attorney is my attorney.
    My Friends are my friends.
    The colour of their skin is of no importance. I treat them as I wish to be treated in return.

    Believe me if you wish. Think me a liar if you wish. Think me niave if you wish.
    I do not care.


  15. I accept who we are. To me that is the first step towards understanding how civilised we are. We may be confused hence the double standards; we may be angry and bitter, but in the end, we still help old people cross the road. We still pick people out of the gutter.

    Until the day comes when we see that what we do is good, that is when our civility will shine. Don’t talk about service in Canada. You had some good days. My first three months there was like your vacation, until you see the subtle ways of racism creeping in. They are no better; especially in French Canada. You learn to skirt it.


  16. Hi WTF

    What! You just another club member. Wishing that it would go away? White is what? You married to a black woman or man? What would your family say? How would it affect you. I know, nothing wrong with black ’til it hit home.


  17. Not that it is your business, or even relivant.
    I am not married. I have dated a few Bajan women. One, some would consider brownskin. One, some would call Indian. Two, some would consider black. Two, some would call white.
    I have brought them all home to my parents and family while they were alive, and they were all welcomed with hugs, and pecks on the cheek, and treated as all my friends were. With respect.
    So once again. Stick your labels on me if you wish. I do not care.


  18. I would have to conclude from what you have said that there is nothing called racism and that we are all equal in Barbados. Is that the reality? Give me a break.


  19. I never said that…did I.
    If you choose to make that assumption then….you know how that ends.

    I am merely pointing out that all of us need to work past these petty labels of colour, and work towards thinking of one another as Bajans.

    As for the break..where would you like me to break? I know a good doctor who could put on the cast.


  20. What you all would do to save your sorry souls is nothing less than amazing. Quoting Bob Marley. What is that? Throwing our words back in our own face? Is that to call us idiots? You laughing at we?

    Well yuh right. We are damn idiots. ‘Cause we does laugh and skin wid people like you. Respect? Or hypocracy?


  21. My intention was not to call anyone an idiot. However, I do not know you, so if the shoe fits, wear it.
    Would you prefer this quote:
    โ€œThe Negro will only be truly free when he reaches down to the inner depths of his own being and signs with the pen and ink of assertive selfhood his own emancipation proclamation.โ€


  22. Tell that to the Governments that want to sign an EPA with Europe to further rape our people and to the EU who is threatening them in all kinds of ways if they don’t sign.

    I am sure it can’t bother you. You are free and imperial and it is you who is still perpetrating this crime. I don’t expect you nto behave any different.

    Thanks for calling me an idiot the second time. The cap does fit because you will probably call me an idiot a third time. How respectful!


  23. I read many of the comments and I found amazement that some bloggers especially John want to justify slavery and coming with the discredited notion that Africans sold Africans into slavery.Total bullshit.
    ROK you are doing an excellent job in handling those jokers especially John.
    Africans did not conceptualise slavery,neither did Africans invited the European slave hunters to Africa.These slavery apologists do not want to accept that the Africans leaders at that time had little choice in the capture of Africans salves.The criminals the wicked,detestable white thrash Europeans had superior weapons and the Africans were no match for the fire power the white scums had.The African leaders were given ultimatums.Either give the Europeans the strongest men,women & children in the tribe or the whole tribe will be killed.
    Europeans are finding all types of excuses to justify their wickedness meted out to us blacks and they have clowns like John to spread the nonsense.There was nothing nice in slavery.It was an injustice to Africa and the plight that Africa is in today the scums the stinking Europeans must take all the blame.The raping of Africa as a result of the mass exodus of its strongest and brightest people through slavery is the reason for the condition Africa is in today.However,Africa will rise and this century is the century for Africa renaissance.
    The Europeans want African countries to admit that it played a part in slavery so as to get away from the issue of reparations.All black people are not stupid like you John and will never acknowledge that we contributed to slavery.
    John it is the anti-black blacks,token blacks and foolish blacks like yourself that have the black race at the bottom of the ethnic ladder.
    You cannot bring any argument to justify slavery.It was wrong and a crime against humanity and the scums the Europeans must pay.
    Reparations is a must.


  24. You ent tired breaking hands and feet? The labels must be petty to you because they are in your interest. You would like to convince somebody that these things are petty but all the while enjoying the substance of the pettyness. You smart? Well the emperor naked. Call me disloyal!


  25. WTF, John,

    I am sure both of you believe in the Bible and hold it up high to Black people. I want you to follow this part of the Bible. Give away everything you have. We have been living by this sermon for centuries. Typical black man huh:

    “Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air; for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin. And yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

    “Therefore take no thought, saying, ‘What shall we eat? or, ‘What shall we drink? or, ‘What withal shall we be clothed?’ For after all these things do the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father Knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

    “But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow, for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”


  26. WTF

    All the pecks that your black girlfriends had and all the talk you giving me. The bottom line is the reality. We know you by your fruit.

    John, I have only this caution about people like you.

    “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

    Hope you recognise them ’cause I can’t even remember which part of the Bible they come from.


  27. In 1939 Hitler’s Wermaccht marched into Poland. At the same time, the russians did the same thing too.

    Poland fought bravely but was crushed and the second world war begun.

    Hitler took Denmark and Norway then Holland, Belgium and France. He already had Chechoslovakia and had treaties with Rumania and Hungary. He took Greece and with it, “free” Europe was his.

    Europe was ruled by the Germans through collaboration of peoples of the conquered territories.

    The legal concept of War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity was given reality through the Nurenburg Trials. Senior Nazis committed suicide, were sentenced to death or to life imprisonment.

    So what happened to the collaborators in this scheme of things?

    Countries tracked them down, tried them, executed them or imprisoned them. Some were killed by their own countrymen in the aftermath of the war based solely on suspicion.

    The point is that the perpetrators were not only the Nazis who had started the war of agression which cost 50 million lives, they were the collaborators as well who assisted the Nazis in their scheme.

    I maintain that responsibility for the crime against humanity that was the transatlantic slave trade was a shared one.

    So ROK,

    I think you need to review this statement that you made because responsibility for a crime against humanity seems to rest with an individual and the penalty is death or life imprisonment.

    “You think that a person must be responsible for a crime against humanity, but let me tell you, if that person dies or there are too many to identify; or even if there is no proof of who actually did it, the offending country pays. Especially if it gained economically from its plundering of another sovereign nation. They call it reparations.”

    ROK, read your statement again.

    I don’t think Italy was in Iraq.

    I found that Iraq was actually paying 5% of its oil revenues for damages caused by its invasion of Huwait. Most of this money will probably go to the US.

    I found that Italy had decided to pay Libya for 40 years of colonial rule.

    This would not have anything to do with the days of slavery and this was a decision taken by the Italian Government because it felt it was the right thing to do.


  28. John

    I would really like to know where you are coming from? You are doing nothing to help your own case?

    First, by this statement you admit that all the countrymen were not perpetrators:

    “So what happened to the collaborators in this scheme of things? Countries tracked them down, tried them, executed them or imprisoned them. Some were killed by their own countrymen in the aftermath of the war based solely on suspicion.”

    You are definitely a collaborator and I do not consider myself one. Therein is the separation. You would like to lump all in one to save your sorry soul.

    You support my point when you say this: “This would not have anything to do with the days of slavery and this was a decision taken by the Italian Government because it felt it was the right thing to do.”

    Some people do have a concsience. You saying it as if, “that is their foolish business to admit”… but the facts do bear out that a wrong was commited and that if the perpetrators could not be found or were dead, the country would pay damages.

    The next thing is that, would you consider that if Iraq had brought a case against Itally in the international court, it would have lost?

    I want you to check and see if the court has ever delivered a judgement for a country to pay reparations?


  29. WTF
    I now work in a company where all the employees are Bajan. Some would consider 43% of the staff Black, 43% of the staff white, and 14% of the staff coloured
    …………………………………………………………………
    Hmmm it would be interesting to know this company. Obviously white owned . Whites dont work for black companies.My question is do those equal percentages meet and socialize outside work? As a person who spent time around the world including South Africa and the Deep South the white black situation in Barbados is appalling. White racism and bigotry in Barbados is alive and flourishing. It is not violent but it is there and can be noticed by any observer. What makes it somewhat a non factor in our daily lives is the vast numerical superiority of blacks. But whites control the economy and associate only with themselves and dislike blacks. Whites do not support black businesses and often place stumbling blocks to stop black enterprises from succeeding.


  30. ROK // September 9, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    You are definitely a collaborator and I do not consider myself one. Therein is the separation. You would like to lump all in one to save your sorry soul.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++
    We are neither one of us collaborators!!

    The simple point is that a war crime or crime against humanity as per legal definition does not exist simply because we say it exists and seek to appportion blame.

    A court hears evidence against an accused and to do that the court needs to have an accused.

    It can’t impose a death penalty on somebody who is already dead!! It can’t imprison an imaginary person.

    All we can do is add our voices to express outrage against the past and ensure history does not repeat itself.

    You don’t consider yourself to be a collaborator precisely for the same reason a “white” person would not consider himself or herself a perpetrator.

    Neither one of you were there and took an active part.

    It is that simple!!!!!!!!!!

    Like you, I don’t consider myself a collaborator either just because it is possible that my african ancestor collaborated in the whole sick enterprise.

    It doesn’t mean that as a human being I am not degraded by what that african ancestor did, or may have done and so should you be.

    I express outrage the same as you.

    It is part of our humanity.


  31. Good for you. You inherit the wealth and we inherit the scars; who still mouring? and who still reaping the benefits?

    Who really expressing the outrage? That is so convenient for your sorry soul. Well let me tell you that in these days, criminals are not only the ones who perpetrated the crime but also those who benefit from the proceeds of crime.

    So your tears are not real so long as you continue to hold that blood money and let me also warn you, that stances like yours could only create more bitterness because it is not only unforgiveable it was a human outrage that you are hiding from and trying to wriggle out of.

    Nothing more dangerous than a criminal who does not accept that he is commiting a crime because the crime is destined to happen again. A leopard does not change his spots overnight as the presence of racism in Barbados clearly shows.

    So long as it continues, there is no sorrow on the part of the white man and the same thing his foreparents did is the same thing they are doing right now. How can you escape the blame? You have no shame.

    So while it can’t impose a penalty on somebody who is already dead, it can surely impose a penalty on those who benefitting from the proceeds. So come again.


  32. Brother ROK

    Do you concede that exacting reparation addresses the economic argument only or does it? Isn’t the problem of healing between the races going to still exist?

    Also that dark part of our history where our own historians have sought to suppress the role of Blacks in the slave trade, don’t you think some demystification is required?

    Only through education will the PEOPLE be able to absorb history and hopefully demonstrate the right behaviours which can lead to healing.

    What do you think?

    Our behaviour as a BLACK race must be shaped by our own prism and not by others whether White, Yellow or Green.


  33. There are many many incidents of apologies offered for slavery on the net.

    Here is an interesting position on reparations.

    http://africasjournal.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/obama-says-he-opposes-slavery-reparations-apology/


  34. @ David

    You are correct. The exchanges I have been having with John was for me to see exactly how the descendants of the slave traders saw themselves.

    I think I have pretty much exhausted that. They have nothing more to add but my analysis of it is that this generation of whites are so terrified of admission that they seek to defer the responsibility as not theirs and even moreso the fault of the Blacks and descendants of Blacks.

    It tells me that we are going to have to do all the healing ourselves and that we should not seek an apology from them nor should we go out of our way to say “apology accepted” even if they do apologise.

    Of course, it is only human not to want to give up your luxuries… really that is a baser instinct; not based on socialisation at all but on pure unadulterated greed and is basically a lack of discipline.

    A good parallel would be the scenario of one toy between two children, where one is not willing to share the toy and gets on and gets on until the other child has to give it up to make peace.

    That indisciplined child is the white man. As a matter of fact, they are allowed to behave and get on in that selfish manner from small.

    Maybe they don’t recognise it but at the school I went to a lot of them was there; more than half the schools population at the time was white and that is how the white boys dealt.

    So the picture that John and WTF painted to me was one of ill-discipline and raw greed that is coming at us without any let-up. You understand that is a formula for the racial terrorism that we still feel today.

    That would certainly explain why things have not changed and why racism is still a pandemic. It would explain why we can’t get a bank loan and why we cannot become certain captains of industry.

    It would also explain why white people don’t work for black people and why white people still control all the wealth.

    Don’t let that exchange lead you to believe that I am not aware of the psychological scars but what I would say to those who are so terrified to accept, they should take a look at the videos from the South African reconcilliation committee.

    Let it be know that even though the victims had recourse to prosecute the perpetrators of crime, even if they admitted to their victims, proudly, I would have to say, the only ones who were prosecuted were those whites who refused to admit in the face of the evidence. Of course the other whites coming after them quickly learned how to survive and they all admitted after that.

    John and WTF should take a leaf out of those videos for their own spiritual healing and salvation. You can find them on YouTube… and rather than play “powful foolish”, that is if they are sincere, they should abandon that position and let us hear some white men say we are sorry and mean it.

    You want a peaceful Barbados? You can have it. You can stem the tide of crime tomorrow; that is the depth to which you have a grip on this island. I dare you.


  35. @ John

    What can I say to you? I think that if the Republicans come on a platform and offer reparation in programmes and educational institutions which gives black an opportunity, Obama may very well kiss the presidency goodbye. He would probably lose every black vote.

    But John, are you going to keep carrying on so all the time? Time to let up. I am now very concerned for your soul.


  36. @David

    I have collected a few videos from YouTube and other info on this matter and they are on the BANGO Online web site.

    There is a psychiatrist Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, who has been studying the psyche of the perpetrator. This is quite interesting. There are several short videos: Part 1A, 1B, etc.

    http://www.igloo.org/community.igloo?r0=community&r0_script=/scripts/folder/view.script&r0_pathinfo=%2F%7Bfb0ca82a-bccd-47f2-8a1e-a2350939e0bb%7D%2FLibrary%2Fpeacesoc%2Fracismwh&r0_output=xml


  37. ROK
    When a so-call intelligent man like you could make such a comment as the one of Obama losing the presidency and the black, I’ve lost my respect for you. Obviously you’re bias, while I’m neutral in this matter(U.S.elections), the McCain camp has revert to pure mudslinging and the type of politics that even we in BARBADOS should get away from. Discuss serious matters not the foolishness that this campaign is climaxing on and you backing McCain? surprise!!!!!!!. I used to see you as a man abovethat level of thinking.


  38. Well Scout, I am not here to live up to the expectations of others but let me say that it was the political strategist in me coming out.

    So don’t think that I am supporting McCain, of course I want to see Obama win; whether he proves effective or not and I am sure he will prove effective.

    When I said that, it did not reflect on the McCain camp and what they stand for; that was an abstract thought. I don’t even think they would entertain the thought anyhow; too conservative.

    So I have not lost my intelligence and if I was following as close as you, I may not have said it, so you are quite right; and that is not supposed to be for you to re-gain any confidence in my intelligence.

    You see, I get kinda excited when I see certain things. For example the master stroke of the DLP allowing free travel to school. I know so many parents that are singing all now because of the money they saving; in some cases those children could not go to school everyday. As simple as it seems, that is a political master stroke that will serve the DLP for a very long time.


  39. ROK,
    I never called you an idiot…show me where I did.
    As I said at the very outset. I care not whether you think me a liar, a racist, niave, whatever.
    Call my comments nonsence. That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. They are my thoughts.
    As you have chosen to insult me, I shall no longer participate in dialogue with yourself.

    Mike.
    Yes the company is white owned. Irrelivant.
    Do we socialise outside of work. As a matter of fact we do. As it happens we have similar interest in sport and Saturday dining delicacies (souse) so we socialise most weekends. And heaven forbid, some nights we can all be found in Harbour Lights.
    Please do not place your misplaced beliefs on me.
    As stated before…another merry go round racism topic where the same insults and comments will be passed, and nothing will amount of it.


  40. Where did I insult you? By saying that your soul is a sorry one? My language has been very general, “Black”, “White” and if you take the “you” personal it has to do with who the cap fits, remember?

    I never said that you called me an idiot but in order to play some passionate role, you done. Typical. I asked you if you are saying that “we” are idiots. Check back the above.

    So long as you here representing the white race, “you” do not mean you personally, I am dealing with a race of people, of a particular colour, of a particular character.

    The closest I come to insulting anybody is John when I boldly told him he was one of the conspirators. I drew an analogy using crime and criminals because anybody who perpetrates a crime against humanity is a criminal according to white western civilisation’s definition. I am therefore in context.

    Everything else came from the sermon on the mount. The word of the Bible.


  41. ROK // September 9, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Tell that to the Governments that want to sign an EPA with Europe to further rape our people and to the EU who is threatening them in all kinds of ways if they donโ€™t sign.

    I am sure it canโ€™t bother you. You are free and imperial and it is you who is still perpetrating this crime. I donโ€™t expect you nto behave any different.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ROK

    Once you have been raped, whether you were a virgin or not before, your virginity is gone.

    Virginity is not a disease with which any of the Chiefs here in the Caribbean can claim to have been afflicted.

    I really have not been following all this EPA business because I figure if our Government hasn’t taken the time to explain exactly what it is trying to do on our behalf for us it can’t be good.

    I am not going to protest it and I’m not going to support it.

    When the chiefs deign to fill us in on the details I will say my two cents. Unfortunately they will have signed on the dotted line by that time.

    I suspect none of them really understand it but have had a ball discussing it at the various meetings they have had.

    The free food, the travel and other trinkets are real incentives to sign on that dotted line.

    They have been selling us out for years. They will just do it one more time.

    It is refreshing to see one of the Chiefs has the backbone to standup and say no.

    It’s not so nice to watch the other Chiefs who have been detailed to break down his resistance actually describe what they are doing.

    What race or colour would you say the Chief who has dug in his heels is?

    Is it even important?


  42. John, why are you waitng for Government to EXPLAIN the EPA? Can’t you read and understand English?


  43. Juris

    How many pages and where would I find them?

    And why would I read them after the fact?

    I’d prefer a summary and the reasoning behind the EPA before I invest my time in reading it.

    Would have appreciated a blow by blow account of the negotiations in the press and not now be presented with a document to read.

    All the same I don’t read the Nation or Advocate although I do get the Nation.

    Too many other things on my plate.

    I just figure if the Chiefs are acting in my name they should be telling me what they are doing when they are doing it.

    Guess that’s why there are a whole set of new Chiefs.


  44. ….. on the other hand, looking at the picture of the four Chiefs taking a walk in this morning’s paper, I can’t help but realise that both Barbados and Antigua have sizeable Guyanese populations so while I admire the fact that one Chief can take a stand and identify his position so lucidly, I can’t help wondering if we are not watching negotiations within negotiations!!


  45. @ John

    that is what it is, a nogotiation within a negotiation.

    I never thought I would see the day when I could not agree with you more and I even wonder if I could have stated it any better when you said:

    “I really have not been following all this EPA business because I figure if our Government hasnโ€™t taken the time to explain exactly what it is trying to do on our behalf for us it canโ€™t be good.”

    Why are you onto the race of the big Chief that said no? I bet it is only a matter of time before two more chiefs take the same stand. What race would they be?

    At another point you said, “Once you have been raped, whether you were a virgin or not before, your virginity is gone.”

    Boy! Boy! Boy! Is that the only fact that you can garner from being raped? Is that the most pertinent fact? So you think that when they find the perpetrator the authorities should say, well the virginity gone so it don’t make sense punishing that person? Is that your same approach on murder?


  46. ROK

    You have been quoting the Bible left right and centre and I start talking in parables and you play you don’t understand.

    He who has ears to hear let him hear.


  47. This ought to cause a stir. I got the following emailed to me, and I thought it would be interesting to see what comments were raised out it.

    “Proud to be White
    Michael Richards makes his point…

    Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point.

    This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points…

    Someone finally said it… How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me ‘Whiteboy,’ ‘Cracker,’ ‘Honkey,’ ‘Whitey,’ ‘Caveman’ … and that’s OK.

    But when I call you, Nigger, Kike,Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink … You call me a racist.
    You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you… so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

    You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma’uled Al-Nabi. You have the NAACP. You have BET… If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we’d be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists. If we had White History Month, we’d be racists.

    If we had any organization for only whites to ‘advance’ OUR, lives we’d be racists.

    We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of
    Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

    Wonder who pays for that??

    A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

    If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships…You know we’d be racists.

    There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .

    Yet if there were ‘White colleges’ That would be a racist college.
    In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.

    If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

    You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you’re not afraid to announce it.

    But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

    You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

    I am proud… But you call me a racist.

    Why is it that only whites can be racists??

    There is nothing improper about this e-mail. Let’s see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don’t think many will. That’s why we have lost most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won’t stand up for ourselves!

    BE PROUD TO BE WHITE!

    It’s not a crime yet … but getting real close!”


  48. @ WTF

    I would like to counter some of those comments in the e-mail. I wonder how much of a case he really has. Did he win?

    Kramer: You have the United Negro College Fund.
    Response: How many of them do you have? We can’t get in there, it’s reserved for you.

    You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month.
    Response: You have been having white Xmas for centuries and Thanksgiving all of which are racist by their very nature. You even took Jesus and painted him white.

    Kramer: You call me โ€˜Whiteboy,โ€™ โ€˜Cracker,โ€™ โ€˜Honkey,โ€™ โ€˜Whitey,โ€™ โ€˜Cavemanโ€™ โ€ฆ
    Response: Not for 400 years, that is very recent.

    Kramer: But when I call you, Nigger, Kike,Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink โ€ฆ You call me a racist.
    Response: You have been doing it for 400 years and still doing it and you are racist.

    Kramer: If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), weโ€™d be racists.
    Response: You already have white TV (a rose by any name smells just as sweet) and it’s racist.

    Kramer: If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
    Response: White pride day is everyday for you.

    Kramer: If we had White History Month, weโ€™d be racists
    Response: You have history all painted white, in years.

    Kramer: If we had any organization for only whites to โ€˜advanceโ€™ OUR, lives weโ€™d be racists.
    Response: You did and still do and it was racists (KKK) from start. They have now become redundant in the face of a larger system called white supremacy.

    Kramer: We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of
    Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??
    Response: The plain Chamber of Commerce is plain white even if with black servants.

    Kramer: A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.
    Response: would an able-bodied person be able to take part in the Special Olympics?

    Kramer: In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
    Response: You did that for 400 years decorated with lynchings.

    Kramer: You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us.
    Response: You kidnapped us, brutalised us, killed us, raped us, etc. for 400 years.

    Kramer: Why is it that only whites can be racists?
    Response: Because you are the only race that practice racism. Nobody else on earth knows about how to be racists, except the white man.

    Kramer: You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and youโ€™re not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
    Response: White pride don’t announce itself in words, it’s about abusing, robbing and de-humanising others. What is there about that to be proud of?

    Not sure if this is Kramer: BE PROUD TO BE WHITE! Itโ€™s not a crime yet โ€ฆ but getting real close!โ€
    Response: When did white stop being criminal? All now raping the rest of the world.

    What kind of joke is this? White expresses its pride in war, slavery, stealing, looting, killing, trickery, rape, etc.

    Finally
    Kramer: You say that whites commit a lot of violence against youโ€ฆ so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
    Response: You started it. We could not pass through your neighbourhoods without being beaten, raped or killed without remorse. You have institutionalised violence, so why should not the Ghettos defend themselves? You still doing it and getting away with it. That is the monster you created. Please take a seat.

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