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Submitted by Yardbroom

Recently a Barbados Government Official said that slaves and their masters travelled the Atlantic to Barbados on the same ship – or words to that effect – in essence they had the same experience; he was castigated…some would say with good reason. I understood what the official wanted to say, but he put it so clumsily that the message was lost.ย  There was interference in transmission; as a result the message’s deeper meaning was sidelined into a tributary of sand.

That we – whites and blacks – came from different lands and have found ourselves on the same rock is true.ย  That we should try to accommodate each other, and try as best as we can to make Barbados a better place in the 21st century is also true.ย  That we should be able to debate or discuss slavery without seeingย a slave master in every white face is also true.ย  However, it should also be true that the interaction between whites and blacks in Barbados should not be a few rounds above a slavery relationship; and blacks should not be seen as slaves in remission.

Slavery should not be an unmentionable word; we will only have put the demon of slavery to rest when the issue can be freely discussed.ย  You cannot dismiss “history” as if it never happened, there is no reason to be uncomfortable about it.ย  One of the reasons why slavery is not openly discussed in Barbados is simply because some of us have not mentally adjusted to the transition.ย  We like to think we have, but honestly we have not.

Some white Barbadians often say, “why have we got to harp back to slavery, why can’t we move on?”ย  Some black Barbadians do not want to be reminded that their foreparents were slaves; the memories are still raw and do not sit comfortable with the middle class professional status, and in some cases wealth.

You can acknowledge the elephant in the room or pretend it is not there, but ever so often it will trumpet and you have to notice its presence…perhaps at an inconvenient time.ย  Or you can acknowledge its presence even feed it a few green leaves, and there will be harmony of mind and body.

I find it rather surprising that some religious black Barbadians say they don’t want to be “reminded” of slavery because of the suffering of black people; and yet they do not mind being constantly “reminded” of the crucifixion of Christ on the cross, because his suffering, strengthens their faith.ย  Remembrance has not always got to be painful, it can give cause for “reflection” and strengthen us mentally.

Now the Government official again, it would be arrogant of me to suggest that he did not know what he was talking about…he surely did, perhaps the message was not quite clear.ย  The people who travelled to Barbados in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were in different categories.ย  There were a few who did not even travel, they allowed agents to do that but their fingers were still in the pie; as many grand country houses in England can testify.ย  They were investors, looking for a good return on their capital investment.ย  Then there were landowners, planters, indentured labourers/servants, slaves, Christiansย and many others too numerous to mention here.ย  The only method of transport was by ship and thus so they came.

Of the above-mentioned groups the slaves had no choice, they were also seen as not “quite human”.ย  For those who seek to refute the above and try to equate indentured labourers/servants with slaves that is a non-starter.ย  Brevity limits further exposition here.

Slavery is as much a part of who we are as any culture we seek to associate with in Africa.ย  Slavery was with us in the plantations of Barbados, perhaps some of us do not want to be reminded of the elephant in the room, but it is sitting there, regardless of if we like it or not, and we cannot wish it away.

We should be proud Barbadians, confident of who we are, know our past and history and be able to take our place among other nationalities.ย  It is by understanding that and looking at what we have achieved and hope to achieve in the future we can be a proud people, “all” of us.

I will leave the final word to the Government official perhaps he meant… we should be able to successfully accommodate Barbadians of all shades in Barbados, from the very black to those who are white – and the shades in between – without advantage or handicap, because that is not our history, but it is our “future”, it is who we are.


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209 responses to “Barbadian Slaves, Masters And The Atlantic Journey: People In A Ship”


  1. BAFBFP // September 8, 2008 at 8:46 am

    Start with St. Winifred School and a couple other primary schools of that elk. Now there is the one of the roots of the problem. Harrison College may be elitist by design but you get their on results oriented merit. There is a recently built primary School for children from Islamic families, even that I can tolerate, but St. Winifredโ€™sโ€ฆ..
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    St. Winifred’s exists because there is a market for what it provides.

    You will find all colours of the rainbow there, as well as different races.

    If I remember right, Sir Hilary Beckles sent his children there!!!

    If the free public school system is not providing what some parents want for their children, private enterprise will, but there is a price. This is common practice all over the world.

    I heard recently that St. Winifred’s is not only offering education for girls up to CXC, but has started to offer it for boys as well.

    That is only possible because there is a market demand for the service and it is being provided.

    It has little if anything to do with colour or race, just demand and supply.


  2. Sir Hillary sent his children to St Gabriels. Same damned thing only a little more mixture. If there is a market for it well then there is the problem, this market that you refer to. How do you fix a problem that does not want to be fixed? ‘What some parents want is for their children’ is to have them not socialise with other Barbadians who are different to them in ways that ‘they’ undesirable. What do you do? Deal with the undesirables or the parents? And no the percentage make up by race at St Winifredโ€™s is the exact opposite of that which obtains on a national level.


  3. The scout // September 8, 2008 at 8:57 am

    ROK
    Blacks are still selling their black brothers and sisters to the white man.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    …. and “black” man.

    The only colour that is important is the colour of money!!

    The answer to Chris Halsall’s question:

    “What happens when the money produced within a marketplace is used to distort and corrupt those who define the marketplace?”

    is very simple and one word is all it takes.

    Slavery!!


  4. BAFBFP

    In the “free-enterprise” system a market is not a problem, it is an opportunity.

    It is like tobacco and alcohol. People buy them and companies supply them because there is a market. Government can tax to send the message they are bad for your health but it would be one crazy government that took it upon itself to ban them.

    Barbados works on the “free-enterprise” system. Are you suggesting it shouldn’t?


  5. This talk about civilised is pure nonsense. That is one of the psychological weapons used on us to make us ashamed of our own culture and that is why, like you, most think that what is white is right.

    *********************

    ROK, thanks for the reply, which, in places, certainly made me laugh, such as above because very often what is white, I usually regard as sh**e!! I can’t spell the word in full, as I should n’t like my friend, David, to ban me from ere, too, like the useless lot at BFP!!

    *******************

    What you are saying is a non-argument and not worth the trouble pursuing. We are who we are and we should not and should stop trying to behave like somebody else.

    *******************

    You say, it’s sufficient that ‘we’re who we are’!! R u quite certain of that!! No comparisons with other countries and their civilisations?!! What then is the point of all of this?? Surely, it’s to persuade us to IMPROVE our standards in order hopefully, one day, to reach ‘first-world standards’ and u say that MINE is a ‘non-argument’!! I think some more lateral, thinking’s req’d on your part here, my friend!!

    *******************

    We will never overcome the mental shakles until the time comes when we could look at our own and appreciate it, rather than condemn it.

    ******************

    This is such a silly, remark for a grown man that I’m surprised u made it, and based on the assumption or implication, that everything WE do is commendable which is obvioulsy, puerile nonsense!!

    *******************

    We were civilised before the white man.

    ***************

    ROK, that’s the funniest, comment uv made, yet!! Where r these civilised, black countries?? Bim? Zimbabwe? Do tell me, ’cause I certainly, can’t c them!! And that is in 2008, not even hundreds of years, AGO!!

    ROK, here’s a clue for u!! If Bim was as civilised as u suggest, u would n’t need the erstwhile BFP, and BU, do u think?!! Ponder on that, my bro!!


  6. That is my point.

    I donโ€™t think we know who we are.

    So not only do I think we donโ€™t know what to expect of each other and take ungrounded positions, I also donโ€™t think we know how to behave!!

    ********************

    You’re so right, John. I find it difficult to conceive that there’s a more confused people than our black people, in the entire world!!

    *****************

    sadly ROK, if you look at them closely, you will see it is Africans bringing their fellow Africans overland and by rivers to the coast in chains.

    ********

    Can’t spare the time, at the moment, to read all of this so u tell him John, bro!!


  7. Rok,

    Bimbro says “sadly ROK, if you look at them closely, you will see it is Africans bringing their fellow Africans overland and by rivers to the coast in chains.”

    Rok, unfortunately, nothing has changed. It is our own brothers who are selling us out, black/white/whatever. It was then and still is all about greed – green (money).

    Think about it.


  8. Dear BAFBFP:

    If parents want to pay taxes and to pay good money send their children to St Winifred’s/St. Gabriel’s too then I say let them.

    That said I do not know that Sir Hilary’s children are any better off for having gone to St. Gabriel’s. Maybe West Terrace Primary would have worked just as well (maybe better) and at far less cost.

    We sometimes assume that what is offered in the private sector is somehow better than “publicly-funded” services. This assumption may not be true, however if somebody has the evidence which supports that privately funded primary education in Barbados has better outcomes that public-funded primary (and secondary) education I’d like you to post it on this blog for ALL to see.

    Thanks


  9. In talking with a Brethren father and also a high up at St. Winifreds, the pranks that children get up to at these schools are not much different from those at other schools.

    Perhaps it is the perception that the possibility of something extreme happening at a public school is more likely than at a private school that creates the demand for private schooling.

    I doubt scholastic achievement is any higher or lower at private schools. Some years there will be outstanding students other years the cupboard will be bare. They have a far smaller pool to pull from.

    I will say this.

    I spent the better part of the 1990’s involved in voluntary work in my spare time and some was spent dealing with 4th and 5th form students from various secondary schools.

    I saw about 150 students over this time from a range of schools. I had no problems with discipline. All behaved equally well.

    In terms of being able to write without making silly spelling errors (like I routinely do), the students I saw from HC surpassed all the rest. QC was a distant second.

    Even copying something from a book proved troublesome for most students. I abandoned this exercise early on.

    In terms of initiative, practical ability and downright determination, the students I interaracted with from the Ursuline Convent were way way ahead of the rest.

    All of the students I saw tried equally hard and did their best. It was just those two instances that I saw any differences.

    Maybe it has all changed now!!


  10. “Perhaps it is the perception that the possibility of something extreme happening at a public school”

    Maybe this is an unnessary worry and parents are paying dearly for an unlikely “happening”


  11. @ John

    I think you are attempting to confuse or probably diffuse this reality so that we get lost between Amerindian, British, African, etc. Then you come back with this thing about Africans sold their own. You are a lawyer?

    All I can say to you is nice try. I will point out to you that even though there was some form of kidnapping, the brutality that followed in the hands of the white man was a far cry from what you calling African slavery.

    Even in the words of Equiano, who would have known slavery in African, said that he never saw human beings treated the way slaves were treated. Furthermore he spoke of the extreme fear of the implements used to subdue slaves.

    I have to remind you that Judas betrayed Christ but when he saw what his betrayal of Chrish led to, he hung himself. Maybe the kidnappers never knew of the cruelty of colonial slavery.

    Be that as it may, that cannot be used as an excuse for the injustices meted out to the African race. The kidnappers did not force them to do it. They had a mind of their own. So those sorry excuses that you are writing about not knowing who our true ancestors are is rubbish.

    The average African decendents in Barbados cannot claim all these racial influences in their blood. Not only that, you could be sure that all those mulatto women on the plantions were a product of rape, not just physical rape, but the rape of our people and culture. Even more reason for people like you who feel some African ancestry, should not look proudly at your English rapist past. They tainted you.


  12. Thanks Scout, Bimbro and No Name. Yes I do recognise what you are saying. We should however not get mixed up with the final effects of the mental and psychological conditioning, which we are terming mental shackles/slavery.

    All I can say is that no amount of convining will change the fact that nobody or no God put a gun to the white man’s head and forced him to brutalise Africans. This was pure greed that drove the slave trade and I have no doubt that they used all the trickery in the world to get Africans to kidnap their own.

    I would risk to bet that some who were hired to kidnap, were themselves kidnapped when they turned in their booty and did not receive their reward. That is the height of the deceit.


  13. The only real advantage to sending children to St. Winifred’s “Primary” School, yes and I mean ‘only real’, is that the students come away with a mastery of the English language. The greatest disadvantage is that they are socialised whether planned or otherwise, into accepting a segregated society with their own as the preferred clan.

    I am not speaking Tibetan here; I would appreciate a valid response to something, anything that I have said.

    If White people are concerned that their children will come away with green verbs if they went to Government schools, well then teat to that as an issue.


  14. ROK

    I am not making excuses for anybody. I am merely pointing out that the responsibility for slavery was a shared one.

    With regard to the rape logic here is what actually happened according to the will of my ancestor.

    He left two plantations to the former slave and her ten children at his death in 1839.

    They worked the larger one with paid help until it was sold in 1873 when many of them had died. The smaller one they sold and benefitted from the proceeds.

    Sorry to disappoint you, I am not tainted.

    Those 10 children, one of whom was my ancestor, were an act of love between a man and a woman regardless of their colour. They were produced over a 20 year span.

    Finally, I can’t understand how knowing who your ancestors were could be rubbish if the discussion is centred on knowing who your ancestors were.

    I am at a loss for words in trying to answer that logic. Do you mean this discussion is rubbish?


  15. Bimbro wrote, “we need first, to become more civilised!!”

    Who defines “civilised [sic]?”

    If the definition of “civilised” comes from Britain, France, Canada or the U.S.A., no thanks!


  16. BAFBFP // September 8, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    The only real advantage to sending children to St. Winifredโ€™s โ€œPrimaryโ€ School, yes and I mean โ€˜only realโ€™, is that the students come away with a mastery of the English language.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Think about this statement. It means that none of the other schools produce students who have a mastery of english. Otherwise, the parents would not spend their money on the high school fees there.

    I don’t believe this for one moment because it is not true so there must be some other reasoning that students find themselves at St. Winifreds.

    I know some of the students who went to St. Winifreds and they are some of the most well adjusted adults I know.

    One in particular I understand can curse spectacularly and is recognized by his friends, “black” and “white” for this prowess.


  17. I speak perfect English and I can’ kuss as stink as the next guy. I went to a School my son went to a school and his son will go to a school where the White boys will congregate in liming spots that they preserved for themselves and their private discussions. At HC it was a bench, forgot what it was called, at Lodge it was by the front gate in Sir David’s time, then it was by a short wall opposite the tennis courts in the 70’s and 80’s, there was a designated spot at Deighton and so on. I am sure there is a spot at St. Michael’s and Queens as well. I say with out fear of contradiction that this comes about as a result of socialising at schools like St. Winifred’s in the early years of development of White children.


  18. Diaspora-ite // September 8, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Bimbro wrote, โ€œwe need first, to become more civilised!!โ€

    Who defines โ€œcivilised [sic]?โ€

    If the definition of โ€œcivilisedโ€ comes from Britain, France, Canada or the U.S.A., no thanks!

    *******************

    That’s an interesting one!! So where do u c as civilised!!


  19. Dear John and BAFBFP:

    I attended a rural public primary school as did my parents, children, siblings, neices, nephews and cousins. I believe that we speak and write English well enough that we have no difficulty in making ourselves understood in Barbados, the English speaking Caribbean, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada and where ever else English is spoken, read and written. In fact I can name half a dozen kin who earn their living as writers, and these half a dozen include a good number in the Great White North.

    So as the young people would say “you ain’ saying nen”


  20. Bimbro, an in-depth response would take up far too much valuable bandwidth. Suffice to say, GB, France and the USA, with their history of slavery would be automatically disqualified in my books. Winthrop Jordan in his book, “White Over Black,” pointed out quite clearly that in the so-called civilized nations, those who were bleating the loudest about individual human rights, e.g. Tom Paine, David Hume, to mention a couple, were at the same time saying nary a word about the enslavement of Black Africans and poor Irish and Scots. Quite the contrary, these pillars of Western philosophy thought it quite acceptable to enslave them. Belgium, which loves to portray itself as the epitome of civilization, with the EU HQ and their delicious chocolates, were some of the most abominable and diabolical colonizers ever [read “King Leopold’s Ghost,” by Adam Hochschild].

    Canada accepted many runaway slaves through the Underground Railroad only to restrict them to ghettos such as Africville in Halifax, NS. Today, freedom of speech in Canada is well-nigh dead, and will be if the Canadian Islamic Congress and the B.C. Human Rights Commission have their way. In Canada, the gay lobby is so powerful that they have had a law passed which states that speaking out against homosexuality is a hate-crime, and a Canadian Christian pastor has been charged accordingly, yet it’s open-season on Christianity: anyone can say anything derogatory about Christ and Christianity.

    So, Bimbro, to answer your question, it all depends on your definition of “civilised,” and “civilization.” At the moment, I can’t answer that one in any detailed manner, but Norway and Ireland would be high up on my list.


  21. And, of course, Barbados, even with all its imperfections.


  22. Diaspora-ite

    You mean Ireland in Great Britain (GB) and Norway in Europe (EU)?


  23. Socializing thing which is being complained about happens because many of the various colours attending every school have parents and in many cases grandparents who have been friends all their lives. Many have been neighbours for generations and play together often. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn’t matter what colour they are.

    Socializing is an individual’s choice. Some people prefer to socialize with strangers, some with people socialize with people with whom they have nothing in common. Who are we to tell someone with whom they can socialize, especially in school.

    Everybody has the right to choose their friends. While in school every parent hopes that their child will not choose “bad” company and bad company comes in every colour.

    It is a pity we cannot choose our family.


  24. But no human being is born civilized.

    Each child that is born has to BECOME civilized.


  25. Diaspora, thanks for the reply which I’ll read properly, later. However, I know racism to exist in Ireland and have no reason to believe it does n’t in Norway, too.

    Somebody said, we were civilised ‘even before slavery’!! Well, I just came across this ‘excellent’, example of black civilisation!!

    Enjoy!!

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Swaziland-Marks-40-Years-Of-Independence-As-King-Mswati-III-Comes-Under-Fire-For-Spending/Article/200809115094736?lpos=World_News_News_Your_Way_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15094736_Swaziland_Marks_40_Years_Of_Independence_As_King_Mswati_III_Comes_Under_Fire_For_Spending


  26. John, I mean Eire [Republic of Ireland] and Norway, which is not in the EU.
    Rgds.


  27. BAFBFP // September 8, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    I say with out fear of contradiction that this comes about as a result of socialising at schools like St. Winifredโ€™s in the early years of development of White children.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I am willing to bet that up to 1966 when I went to HC, St. Winifred’s did not have boys at primary level but I could be totally wrong!!

    My recollection is that St. Winifred’s was up till then a girls only school.

    Does any one know for sure?

    What used to happen in my day was that there were a few private schools that operated out of people’s homes which supplied alot of students to HC. Some catered to boys only, some to boys and girls.

    The Rock Christian School used to be one such school. It started small and still exists today. I just remember it as Mrs. Smith’s and it catered to boys and girls.

    It would be natural for students who had sat the screening test and the common entrance and entered into the big bad secondary schools to stick together at the beginning.

    That’s what friends do. That’s what I did.

    I then became interested in pitching marbles and soon made other friends, of all colours and from all schools.

    Oh yeah, … and I doubt you could class with this guy when he gets riled up and starts to cuss. He uses words that seasoned cussers have never heard before.

    When he winds up big able people who were cussing go silent.


  28. @ John

    …and I am merely pointing out to you that the responsibility for slavery is not a shared one and that whatever part Africans may have played in it, they can bear no responsibility whatsoever for the brutality that the imagination of the white man meted out. That part was solely the responsibility of whites.

    Again, you trying to pass the blame? No amount of evidence you bring, or logic can take away that liability from the white man and if it was a court case and damages would be awarded in this way, for every one billions dollars levied on the white man, you could only levy half cent to the African for their part in it.

    If however, a criminal charge for crimes against humanity was brough against the white man, they could not convict or sentence a single African for this gruesome saga. Africa could not get a day and the white man would have to take all the punishment.

    In crime there is something called mens rea and this is where the white man would fall because with all the reports, and since that was a journey where no African returned to tell the tale, the Africans who were rounding up their own had no idea what treatment was meted out to them.


  29. @ John

    What you really tring to say? Because a white boy could cuss, What? He learn it from he African nanny, the gardener, the chauffeur, the yard boy, etc. and along with the African breast milk; what you expect?


  30. ROK

    You been watching too much TV!!


  31. John

    You telling me that white children never had African breast milk? and did not pick up the language from the Africans around them? Come again.


  32. …. not dis guy!!

    He is in a class by himself!!

    In a crime against humanity I suspect courts would view all the perpetrators as equally responsible if they could still be found and were actually alive.

    Even if Africans were viewed as accomplices I think in a crime against humanity they would be labelled collaborators.

    Here is how collaborators were dealt with in “civilised” countries in the past.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_Nazi_collaborators


  33. Two conversements taking place at the same time. Caw Blin, Yer. (Da’s a White man cussiology).


  34. St. W was an all girl school in the 60’s and early 70’s. I refered to schools “LIKE” St Winifreds which includes Rock Christian et al. But Juhn you were obviously not the run of the mill White boy.


  35. no name

    I getting ‘roun’ to you shortly.


  36. I tried to submit a post but then I got an error. So here goes again.

    Is there a site on which white people express concern about which schools black people attend, or whether black people like white people, or where black people go to party or whatever? As a chinee I think i should post there!

    @John

    Michael Manley once said that if man sits too long on the fence, he gets his balls squeezed. Pick sense from nonsense!


  37. I am sorry to disappoint you but I never saw any thing at HC in my time which could be remotely attributable to skin colour!!

    That is not to say I was not aware of how easy it could be for an incident to be blown out of proportion on the basis of colour.

    I think we were just too busy growing up, working and having fun to let skin colour get in the way.

    That’s part of the reason why I say I am not “white”, not “black” not “coloured” and the closest term I have come to describing myself is Bajan.

    I happen to have been born in Barbados and lived most of my life here and that’s one of the reasons I call myself Bajan.

    To be honest, I am not even totally happy with that simple designation.

    I am the result of the lives of many ancestors, thousands upon thousands, of a variety of skin colours and of races and of countries.

    To limit myself to being “black” or “white” or “coloured” is to insult them and in so doing, to insult myself.

    I figured that out a while ago.

    It is a part of being human.

    Maybe one day I will graduate to calling myself a human being when I understand more about my origins.

    You should try it too.

    Try for a moment to forget what you think people expect you to act like.


  38. Deng Xiaping // September 8, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    @John

    Michael Manley once said that if man sits too long on the fence, he gets his balls squeezed. Pick sense from nonsense!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Last time I checked, they were doing just fine.


  39. Yes Deng Xiaping, tell him, cause if he ain’t black but all of these other things, he just ain’t black and too mixed up to be black.

    He therefore has no right to pontificate on Black and too mixed up to be able to tell the black what to do.

    So quit sitting on the fence, get a ringside seat ’cause if you come in the middle of the arena and you ain’t black or you ain’t white; May the Lord help you.


  40. @ John

    These “balls” are proverbial balls, you can’t see them, you looking at the wrong thing.


  41. ROK

    I have every right to pontificate on skin colour.

    Try another argument!!


  42. ROK

    Well you go and inspect your proverbial balls. I am happy with mine!!


  43. @ John

    4 centuries @ 3-4 generations per century? What thousands? Which maths book you get that from; or you counting in rupees?


  44. ROK

    I am sorry you can’t see them.


  45. @ John

    Don’t need to check on my proverbials. I have not been sitting on the fence. Never even tried it ’cause I know which side of the fence I am on without any misconceptions.

    When I walk in the bank to get a loan and I am taken on a tour of the world, I know which side of the fence I on. If I want to buy sugar and export it and I am told that I have to get clearance from the Sugar Producers Association or whatever they may call themselves at the time, I know which side of the fence I on.

    If I want to be a shipping agent and I go to the Ministry of Trade to register and am told that I have to join the shipping agents association… and then when I go to the shipping agents association I am told that in order to join I have to be a shipping agent, I know which side of the fence I am on.


  46. ROK

    Here is how it works.

    Every human has 2 parents.

    Each of these two parents being human also, also have two parents. That makes four grand parents.

    Then 8 great grand parents.

    Then 16 great great grand parents

    Then 32

    Then 64

    Then 128

    Then 256

    Then 512

    Then 1024 at generation 10

    Then 2048

    Then 4096

    etc.

    Add up all the persons who are responsible for you in each generation before you and by the 10th you have 2022.

    That’s approximately 300 years, 3 centuries. A generation is 20-30 years.

    Are you prepared to tell me you know for certain that each one of them considered themselves to be “black” or “African” and would be satisfied for you to take up the absolute, limited position that you have?

    Maybe it doesn’t matter to you but once you go this road, then you lose the authority to speak on the past because you lose a part of your humanity.


  47. …. that is why I don’t see a line (or a fence) and I don’t see sides.


  48. John

    Where we start to draw the line is at 12 generations a maximum of 14. Need not go any further back. Here is where the criminals started perpetrating and the victims started suffering.


  49. John,

    If we had to use the principles of the Bible, every white man decended from those who started to perpetrate crimes against the Children of God, would be cursed and doomed to a hell of brimstone and fire.

    …and all would perish except those who became Black. I wonder what you would do? No fence here???


  50. John

    I am very sorry for you who would want to push me in that kind of corner. Don’t tell me about humanity, talk to your foreparents who had none. You would seek to protect them.

    I see you are grasping at straws because you have no logical defense for the sorry tail of the white man, so you want to push me into psycholical guilt. Typical. You do the crime but can’t deal with the time. You should be ashamed. Stand up like a man!

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