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Families, businesses, clubs, political parties, governments, churches and every other institution always have disagreements or different opinions.
We will not be surprised that within the family of those on the other side , the Simmonses, the Greaves, have deep differences as well about a range of matters.
Therefore the perceived existence of a schism within a particular family cannot be enough to be deployed as the central reason why this war was conducted in spite of stout resistance.
More troubling should be the operations of successive governments, the law courts, the GG and the inordinate and unbalanced state power the defenders were and are being subjected to. Democracy?
A fight where a David is the Goliath.
@NO
The many blogs posted to BU on Kingsland matter over the many years confirm a deep rift between the family and shareholders. You may recall Keltruth and BFP blogs covered Knox version of the affair and BU the Deanes.
“More troubling should be the operations of successive governments, the law courts, the GG and the inordinate and unbalanced state power the defenders were and are being subjected to. Democracy?”
The CORRUPTION by those with control over the legislature, judiciary and bar association etc….state organs..
..CAN’T even pin this one on the minorities…outside of the crooked ones calling themselves lawyers, with their signatures all over those documents…saw them myself
saixd minorities…they are only bottomfeeding opportunists…with their gready hands in the people’s vat, treasury and pension fund thanks to the same state players.
The days of misleading the people are over.
👑 Kingsland
👑 David King
👑 Send Fi the King 👑
Perhaps one problem with the Court System is the self-admitted and well known established fact that Judges don’t actually read the legal submissions made and just make an instinctual Judgement on a statistical basis of probabilities and wild ass guesses and Courts are known for misjustice or injustice 50% of the time and wrong incorrect judgements mad are set in stone and practically impossible to remedy in the shitstem
Sometimes you got to give it up instead of chucking good money after bad
It seems like the next round of cases in Barbados would Bankrupt the Knox plaintiffs with legal bullying and costs assessments considered (which means loser pays for the winners legal fees)
There’s no business like the Dancehall Business
like no Business I know
David
I admit to not reading the referenced sources, albeit over time one or more threads have been posted to BU, as within this thread.
So what is this continuing spat?
One former shareholder acting as they are still owners, and following the various actions related to former assets. And in so doing, insert themselves into shenanigans of newer owners of those assets.
What is the end game?
@NO
The endgame is that people will die.
There is public opinion and there are the gatekeepers of the establishment.
Hopefully this and other matters may help to sensitize the public to be more aware. Are we there yet?
Northern…
No one can be trusted when it comes to assets, wealth, estates, land, and the dazzling elitist imperalist stature etc…too much greed and greasiness…the lengths lowlifes would go to acquire what is not rightfully theirs is astounding…the end result is most times, always the same…startng with a reputation as the notorious and then escalates from there, the sky is the limit.
Am still grappling with my version of that bs.
No @David this goes well beyond “the fact the crux of this matter is about a family disagreement how prime lands should be carved up.” Waaay beyond that.
I certainly missed the depressing evidence of high level corruption previously but the notes by the blogger above are quite damning prima facia evidence of the most egregious, fraudulent acts of governmental illegality I have seen or read about.
His details set out the type of smoking gun that have set independent investigatory journalists on career building stories (and sometimes to glory with their Most High) … obviously no such investigation can be expected in Bim.
In which jurisdiction can a sitting government minister and a fellow MP who went on to be the AG and then Chief Justice be alleged to have willfully used Eminent Domain to acquire real estate for taxpayers’ benefit and then said gentlemen found it possible halt the proposed project … and then somehow, make a bid on portions of related real estate which actually INCLUDED the proposed land to be compulsorily acquired … and it’s NOT an EPIC SCANDAL !
The family squabble is absolutely excellent Netflix reality fare brother but the larger Hollywood movie is truly earth shatteringly epic!
@John, I fight with you here but I wouldn’t want to lose your voice due to unexpected ‘glorification’. I know you recall the life and particularly the finality of Selwyn Richardson of TnT (as one prominent example).
Powerful people will do ‘all things necessary’ to keep their secrets ‘sealed’ … and they can be vengeful!
Peace out.
The Kingsland land scandal is not an isolated case. Historically, It has been argued that some returnees from the USA fell into crime as a means of survival. They had honed their survival skills in the USA whilst living on the edge. This gave them the edge when they returned to Barbados. The level of gangsterism which they would have observed and practised during their sojourn in the USA was instructive. Black Bajans would have been intimidated
by the menacing encounters that they would have had with these returnees.
Once these hoodlums understood their potential to generate wealth they worked on climbing the social ladder. Their off-spring would have benefitted enormously. They would have benefitted with a superior education. The rest as we would say is history.
“Lamming’s novels and essays for three decades afterwards would mercilessly scrutinize the new class of intellectual proprietors and overseers produced by that education.” ( https://caricom.org/personalities/hon-george-lamming/ )
In the Castle of My Skin, (1953), written by George Lamming he highlighted the great land theft that took place in Carrington’s village.
With the economic template set; a narrow group of actors have been able to constantly defraud Bajans from their land.
The system is clearly rigged against the average Barbadian. My advice to the run of the mill Bajan (the majority) will be succinct: “Get the hell out of Barbados”.
Get with it Boss…
Bushie did not need this example to KNOW that it is the ATTITUDE of the majority. Have been saying this now for EONS….
…besides this one has been a MAJOR media highlight…why do you think..?
It comes across like bad breath, that most Bajans emphasize with the dishonesty; EXPECT the bribe-taking; and ENVY the current perpetrators.
It is why Caswell STANDS out as an outlier.
Bushie calls it as it is…
Even BU, by default,(until the situation becomes overwhelming) seeks to justify the lotta shiite by making excuses for the incumbents’ shortcomings – RATHER than demand impeccable standards of morals, commitment and performance from the charlatans…. and holding their feet to the fire…
Waru
But the people involved are presumed to have a modicum of ‘respectability”
Others will give their first born to see 3 or 4 more golf courses dotting the country, even after all these years. For these were the plans. Making talk about food security pure hot air.
@Dee Word
Clearly you missed the point about it being a family feud, anyway moving on – whether Kingsland the Knoxes or Nelson Peter Allard what is the base issue again?
@Bush Tea
We have current and former political actors reading and posting to BU. We have public servants and private sector professionals/leaders. We have academics and journalists who mostly read it is true but guess what, what a difference we could make if they were to share information that would make a real difference. It can’t be left to a single blog, it must be an all effort.
In 1948, my Grandfather had moved from a Sole Proprietor who bought his first plantation with the help of mortgages in 1939 to a forming a partnership in which his wife and seven children were equal partners.
The Partnership was always referred to as E.E.Deane et al but since all 9 members were equal, I’ll call it Marjorie Ilma Deane et al because at that time my mother had not married. She remained a part of my Grandfather’s family until she married and formed her own.
My Grandfather thus spread the risks he alone bore among nine individual persons, his family, standard business practice.
The partnership was a tenancy in common in which each of the nine tenants had an equal ownership share in the land he had been able to purchase.
That was 1948 and by then he owned in his own right over 700 acres. After he admitted his family as tenants in common the land was equally owned by 9 tenants in common.
Between 1948 and 1958, the life of the tenancy in common, if there had been a dispute that ended up in court the court would have ordered all of the land sold, any legal or other expenses deducted and the balance distributed among the 9 equal tenants in common.
As my Grandfather’s children married they formed their own families. By 1958 all of his children who were going to marry (5 out of 7) were married and the Partnership had become Marjorie Ilma Knox et al.
A limited liability company was formed by the Partnership, Marjorie Ilma Knox et al.
I was 2 years old so can’t claim to know why but being a reasonable person I can advance 3 reasons.
Firstly, the liability of the shareholders would be limited by the number of shares they owned. The company would assume the debts of the partnership and incur further debts in acquiring equipment to increase output.
Secondly, taxes!!
Thirdly, each shareholder would have the right to purchase the shares of any other shareholder who wanted to sell and thus retain family ownership of the company.
It came down as it happened to which family was the last functional one left standing capable of running the company and my mother’s family turned out to be that one.
That’s the reason for the jealousy, dog in the manger syndrome!!
Uncles would not let go and preferred to let outsiders benefit …. once they did too under the table ….. all a matter of public record!!
Part of the Racket.
The two single members were required by the articles to leave their shares to siblings, parents or if they had any children which they did not, to them.
They could not leave their shares to a nephew or niece.
They could offer them for sale to an outsider but existing shareholders would get first crack.
Likewise within the five families, shareholders were subject to the same requirements except they could leave also to their spouse.
.
@David, seriously re “Clearly you missed the point about it being a family feud…” 😎🤣
I will presume that you are being cynical and joking!
Mrs Goddard’s post above and @John’s details are a family affair. yes … EVERYTHING else is a national scandal.
You ARE aware that Sir David was the chairman of several investigatory commissions over the years (like the Coke dude matter in Jamaica that INVESTIGATED matters EXACTLY like this) and he also led other major legal matters; as well as being our PM (Ag) … in short he stands at the apex of Bajan society and of course similarly Sir Evelyn …
Yet you walk pass the astounding allegations being made against them (SBG) and reduce this matter simply to a ‘family feud’!
Alright den. I gone, hear!
@Dee Word
You are aware BU Archive is one of the few that a record of Kingsland and Nelson can be found supported by court documents? Are you are Barbados Underground and the Blogmaster was named in affidavits by the Knox family? Please do not disrespect the Blogmaster’s intelligence like a few do here.
Hants on March 26, 2023 at 1:03 PM said:
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https://www.nationnews.com/2023/03/26/estates-way-live/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hope they are going to build a desal plant!!
They can’t now I think about it.
The politician who promised to get the sea around St. George is long dead!!
Pachamama on March 26, 2023 at 12:46 PM said:
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Waru
But the people involved are presumed to have a modicum of ‘respectability”
Others will give their first born to see 3 or 4 more golf courses dotting the country, even after all these years. For these were the plans. Making talk about food security pure hot air.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When SBG turned up with its pie in the sky promises of 5 golf courses in 1990 I knew it was a fraud because I knew how the water supply worked.
Same logic I put forward here!!
Try as I did to explain it to my uncles they were dead set on selling to SBG for Golf. The Golf angle was supposed to razzle dazzle people, typical of the confidence tricksters involved.
They were told by the politicians they would never get permissions for any development so they better had sell.
Up to now not one of the five golf courses has been built!!
Constriction is a dead end economic activity.
TLSN on March 26, 2023 at 12:37 PM said:
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My advice to the run of the mill Bajan (the majority) will be succinct: “Get the hell out of Barbados”.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
… and go where?
The UK is a dump and the USA getting there fast.
Better to stay and fight.
Besides, Bajans only know English!!
… and Canada gone thru the eddoes.
…but guess what, what a difference we could make if they were to share information that would make a real difference. It can’t be left to a single blog
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
What make what difference what!!??
The reason they DON’T share info, is the IDENTICAL reason that the lotta shiite lawyers who DAILY read BU, do not come forward with info that’s designed to clean up the mess…
THE ‘FIFTH AMENDMENT’ FACTOR…. protection against self-incrimination.
Most of the BBs sell their soul for a few pieces of shiite silver, then find themselves owned by the Devil – making them demons by default.
How the hell can you talk about Mr /Ms XXXXX who brazenly stole $5 million from a dying old man ….. when YOU accepted $10,000 to facilitate the paperwork..?
Steupsss
…and why should BU not take up the mantle? You never heard about Hans Brinker?
…Well leave it to stinking Bushie then…
De Bushman will not back back from calling it as it is…
As an aside I came across this a few days back
Not explicitly mentioned is the political involvement of persons or the connections of the “investors”
TLSN on March 26, 2023 at 12:37 PM said:
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The Kingsland land scandal is not an isolated case. Historically, It has been argued that some returnees from the USA fell into crime as a means of survival.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I never heard that argument.
Besides, the returnee who did the most to establish corruption was EWB and his connection was with the UK!!
It actually has its origins in the UK as a result of the war which explains pretty much why it was under EWB that corruption blossomed.
After the war major reconstruction was required and the theft and fraud blossomed.
@ TSLN
Boss, based on Bushies reading of the immediate future of the almighty dollar, and of the false economy that it props up in our (and especially your albino-centric) part of this world, It is MUCH more likely that the ‘fleeing’ which you are suggesting will operate in REVERSE…
Ask N.O. to explain what is REALLY happening to global financial markets and what that portends for life as you know it…
The good thing for us in brassbados is that the politicians have placed us squarely back into the ‘depression days’ before EWB and Adams – when our parents were accustomed to ‘smelling Hell’…
This means that when the shit meets the big fan, we will ALREADY be at rock bottom – with no further to fall…
You, Hants and Dribbles on the other hand, will need parachutes for any kind of survivable landing…
So…
Bushie’s foolish advice is to come home now… and run for parliament. 🙂
@Bush Tea
The new governor didn’t go into his script box to assure Barbadians banks in Barbados are well capitalized and therefore have no reason to panic? What he conveniently omitted was the possibility of a protracted financial crisis triggering another global economic meltdown and what it portends for SIDs with our open economies.
https://barbadostoday.bb/2023/03/25/beach-users-urged-to-use-lifeguard-supervised-beaches/
From BT
“he beaches with lifeguards are: Bath Beach, Bathsheba, Batts Rock, Brandon’s Beach, Enterprise, Folkestone, Greaves End/Pebbles, Brownes Beach (north), Brownes Beach (south), Holetown, Royal Pavilion, Needham’s Point, Crane Beach, Maxwell Beach, Dover Beach, and Rockley Beach.”
Smooth. Quite sophisticated. H Now they herd Bajans onto a few beaches and leave the rest of the island for others to do with as they like.
It is only a conspiracy theory if you prevent it from happening.
Bathe safely. Be safe. Be sensible.
Come on Boss…
You may not be ancient of days like Bushie…
But you have been around long enough to know that when an official makes the effort to say “DON’T PANIC”, that ALWAYS means that you are already late off the panic starting blocks…
ie…
Don’t Panic … stan up dey like a true BB….
LOL
Why do you think Bushie told them to ‘piss off’ when they stood up and said “COVID!!! PANIC!!!…”
You guessed it….
..the bushman said … “steupsss – panic shiite…!!!”
Lo and behold the REAL need for Panic will soon revealed – to be the MRNA shiite they injected like water….
@ Bush Tea re ” Bushie’s foolish advice is to come home now ”
I will continue to contribute to Barbados by my absence.
That will leave one space for a young productive indiidual.
Crime pays
Perhaps the solution for this feud is to act gangster. Hire some heavies to make them an offer they can’t refuse.. all’s fair in love and war
Waru
But the people involved are presumed to have a modicum of ‘respectability”
Yep, respectable crooks, pretenders who are never satisfied with their station in life as servants paid by the people but desperate to climb heights they covet to rub shoulders with their masters and nothing is beneath them….so therefore, open to anything.
Am beyond thrilled they finally exposed themselves…waiting for them to pull the gimmick of blaming it all on Massa…the last play.
Cant come around me with any of that crap…am so happy for them…rush to the front.
@ TheOGazerts,
If you are not a good swimmer you should go near a lifeguard station.
However if you want to swim in white people pee and suntan lotion……
John
Yuh right. That is what the +uckers do.
This writer has such an experience.
The Chief Town Planner himself, Cummins, told this writer that permissions will never br given for a parcel of land.
So we decided to erect a “for sale” sign after years of trying.
And CoW Williams called.
Within days this writer happened to be passing by and witnessed COW and Cummins on the land.
Concerned, this writer joined them and asked what was happening.
COW said that he called Cummings to tell him what he would approve.
A man, Cummings, who made us wait for over 2 years to get a meeting to discuss an application, and then told us it had to remain in an agriculture which it hadn’t been for 50 years, could have been so summoned spoke to the raasssoul snake pit which is Barbados. And rassoul idiots continue.to talk shiiiite about democracy. What a joke!
The true definition of fraud democracy echoed by mimics..
Going back to the Roots
Going back to the scene of the crime
Associated People (3)
The dates listed below have different categories as denoted by the letters in the brackets following each date. Here is a key to explain those letter codes:
SD – Association Start Date
SY – Association Start Year
EA – Earliest Known Association
ED – Association End Date
EY – Association End Year
LA – Latest Known Association
1749 [SY] – 1763 [EY] → Owner
Tobias Frere II
1763 [EA] – → Owner
Henry Frere
1832 [EA] – 1834 [LA] → Owner
Samuel Ames Huson
Associated Claims (1)
Barbados 3340 (Kingsland)
£1,969 2S 5D
Estate Information (2)
What is this?
1758
[Number of enslaved people] 140(Tot) 76(F) 64(M)
Figures from a list of whites and blacks in Christ Church, c.1758. The exact date of the list is not given; but internal evidence places it in or soon after 1758. The figures were given as 2 whites, and blacks as: men: 38; women: 46; boys: 26; girls: 30. [It is not clear why only 2 whites were given nor if the figure for blacks was comprehensive.]
Barbados Department of Archives. RB9/3/4
1832
[Number of enslaved people] 96(Tot)
Return of Samuel Ames Huson, his own property. No previous return. The return shows the purchases from William Thomas Kirton (q.v.).
T71/549 89-92
“I never heard that argument.”
The argument is very real, with evidence, seeing as all had the same origins.
The greed, wanting to be and forgetting where they came from, got them in this.
Pacha…am wondering if these are aware there now exists happenings that are not hitting the mainstream media. Not even in metropolis countries.
No longer posting certain things, reached my limit. So they will have to figure it out.
Steuspe
Wuh it int my fault they believe they are more than servants and employees..
…when they get thrown out of office, dont they apply to these private organizations as EMPLOYEES…..eg Sinkyuh.
So why have they spent all their lives inserting themselves in other people’s PRIVATE matters and pretending otherwise…
They need gallons of COLD reality poured on all of them..
Once there is money there is corruption.
Google Town Planning and corruption.
Here is one example.
https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/planning-construction-news/corrupt-planning-decisions/80113/
The ABC highway was completed in the late 80’s and a great deal of Kingsland’s land straddles it.
Last figure I saw for land along the highway was $80 per square foot.
@ Bush Tea,
I’m afraid, I will have to turn down your offer. There are too many serpents and lions loitering around in Barbados for me to feel comfortable. The assets that I have are relatively safe in the UK. Would that be the case if I were to relocate to Bimshire?
I would like to believe that you guys have reached the bottom. However, I believe you still have a long way to fall.
I not certain if Artax and Donna would take too kindly to your offer that you have made to me. LOL!!
TLSN on March 26, 2023 at 7:20 PM said:
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@ Bush Tea,
I’m afraid, I will have to turn down your offer. There are too many serpents and lions loitering around in Barbados for me to feel comfortable. The assets that I have are relatively safe in the UK. Would that be the case if I were to relocate to Bimshire?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t forget the Privy Council’s part as the final arbiter in the Kingsland land scandal.
“You will own nothing and be happy”
@ David
I read Hal Gollop’s ‘no-case submission’ and the letter presented indicating Leroy Parris was due $3.33M from CLICO as part payment of an agreed $10M gratuity and bonus.
Gollop was reported as having said,
(a). “The judge (Justice William Chandler), who is in charge of the judicial management, never gave anybody permission, neither was his authorisation ever sought to make any complaints to the Commissioner of Police.”
(b). “That is significant because the investigator said the complainant was the Judicial Manager (JM). That is a lie. This questions the whole integrity of this case. The complainant should be CLICO.”
Firstly, on April 14, 2011, the Supreme Court of Barbados appointed Deloitte Consulting Ltd., as Judicial Manager (JM) of CLICO International Life Insurance Ltd. (CIL) pursuant to Section 57 of the Insurance Act of Barbados […]”
Also, recall on March 10, 2015, Justice Chandler issued a directive to unseal the CLICO Forensic Report, following an application by the JM, Deloitte Consulting Ltd., requesting it to be unsealed.
As such, I’m questioning the rationale behind Gollop’s comments that Justice Chandler “was in CHARGE of the judicial management.”
Secondly, I’m also questioning Gollop’s assertion that the complainant should be CLICO and not the JM.
I’ll refer you to Civil suit 99/2016: CLICO Life Insuranace Co. Ltd. (UNDER judicial management) Claimant vs Leroy Parris (First Defendant); Branlee Consulting Services Inc. (Second Defendant); the estate of late Prime Minister David Thompson – acting through duly appointed Personal Representative, Marie Josephine Mara Thompson (Third Defendant)……
…… “alleging that on January 16, 2009, Parris in breach of fiduciary duty and/or in breach of trust procured a CLICO cheque, number 92, in the amount of $3.333M to Thompson & Associates,” and seeking that the defendants “should account for those funds.”
Please note, when that claim was filed, CIL was UNDER judicial management.
And, when the JM was appointed, the company’s board of directors becomes ‘functus officio’ (i.e. of no further official authority or legal effect) and their functions and authority are TRANSFERRED to the JM.
However, although I may “have the propensity to talk soft, runny shiite,” I’ll readily admit I’m not a lawyer and would probably need to be guided by the appropriate legal opinions regarding procedures of the law in relation to this particular matter.
Bushman…aint it a thing when the usual suspects spent their WHOLE LIVES playing a dangerous game of poker….and LOST because they knew not that they knew not:
the game is NOT checkers it’s chess
it’s not poker, it’s chess
due to playing the WRONG game, they always held the LOSER’S hand….and now that the rules have changed…will NEVER catch up..
..but they are only employees so i doan even know wuh dey would want to catch up fuh doh…..
@Artax
There is a simple question to be answered, why was the method adopted to pay gratuity in the form of an invoice to Maurice King taken? Others have asked were taxes paid to government on the 3.3 million.
@Artax
Any feedback on the lady with long fingernails?
@ Artax
The only thing ‘soft and runny’ about your assessment is the veiled assertion that something logical can be assumed when this ‘DLP HaG’ speaks…. or even that it is likely to make any damn sense.
Bushie was once guilty of a similar assumption too… until the DLP put him on TV weekly, exposing him to the Maxim ;
It is better to be silent, and be thought to be a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it.’
The ONLY thing Bushie wants to hear from him now is details of what he knows about the ‘Mrs Smith affair’….
In Bushie’s world, he would be in the damn dock with LP…
@ David
As it relates to the $3.33M paid to Parris as part payment of an agreed $10M gratuity and bonus due from CIL.
Although he was entitled to gratuity, by forging and submitting an invoice to CIL, in the name of an associated company and approving the disbursement of funds so as to faciliate payment to himself, Parris essentially defrauded the company.
Under those circumstances, I cannot understand why would an experienced lawyer go into Court to argue that his client didn’t commit any crime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems as though the ‘Ms Nails’ is ‘missing in action.’
@Artax, as an experienced professional in business accounting and related law you know full well , as we say in Bajan, that these matters can be won or lost on very technical points of law! … Attorney Gollop is too long in the tooth as a lawyer, one must surmise, to make stupid and legally bogus statements.
That to say, who are we (despite apparent evidence to the contrary) to say that Parris ‘forged the invoice’ to CIL. Furthermore, if he was ‘contractually’ entitled to the monies then it’s debatable (thus this long legal case) that he “essentially defrauded the company”.
So yes as you note it is about the “technicalities”!
And to the other point on Justice Chandler being “in CHARGE of the judicial management” there is no mistake there.
Yes Deloitte were the operational JM at CIL during the period but the simple fact that the case was before the Justice who as a member of the courts (directly or indirectly) had “appointed Deloitte Consulting Ltd.” and thus their key acts REQUIRED his decisions quite indisputably means he was “in charge”!
I am no lawyer brother, but that’s as crystal clear as can be!
Technicalities, technicalities, technicalities … fitting reference for a real estate blog, not so!😎
All we need now is to see the appearance of Leslie Haynes, Chairman of the NIS and a former director of CLICO Holdings Limited who served with Leroy Parris, Terrence Thornhill and others on the board.
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.