COVID 19 Versus The Caribbean

The following analysis prepared by Amit @caribbeansignal.com

The last time I researched and wrote anything COVID-19 related was back in June, 2020. Back then, I wrote a series of weekly “Covid-19 vs. The Caribbean” articles. Every Friday night, I’d scour several data sources for reports of confirmed new cases across the Caribbean, compile the data into spreadsheets, and publish some basic analysis on this site. All in all, I analyzed 13 weeks of data.

Much has changed since then. People across the globe are still suffering, as are our economies. Our lives have changed, no matter who you are or what you have (or don’t). Life events are either pre-Covid or post-Covid. Such is the scale and scope of this deadly virus. Despite that, Science has offered solutions. Vaccines were quickly developed (some would argue to quickly?) and are now being deployed globally and across the Region. We Humans have also learned to adapt, as Humans often do. Of-course, the Virus has adapted (as they often do), and the impact of vaccines on mutations is neither clear, nor certain. Ironically, neither is Life in general, except for death and taxes, or so they say.

Read full article: COVID-19 vs The Caribbean: Deaths Per Capita

625 comments

  • It’s all to do with travel time to the abstraction point.

    If it is long enough then the virus or bacteria will not be an issue.

    So if I get from a well that has adequate zone protection around it then I am cool!!

    Like

  • @ John March 5, 2021 3:07 PM

    In other words you don’t mind ingesting a bit of the occasional shit in the water from Bajan black people especially those living close to the Belle as long as it is not coming from the Covid-infected desal plant?

    Like

  • These are the Zones as they existed in 1977.

    Zone 1 is chosen to “ensure” 100 day travel time to a public water supply well.

    If the virus survives in water for 5 weeks, then we would not expect to see it in the public water supply wells as would have appeared in the 1977 map.

    The only abstraction point with no such zone protection is to feed the desal plant.

    So if the virus does appear in sewage from say the densely populated Cave Hill area, the desal plant will process whatever is taken out of the ground.

    The extraction pumps cannot differentiate between good fresh water on its way underground to Freshwater Bay, wastewater, sewage and of course seawater.

    We hope that the treatment process in the desal plant will reduce the concentrations of impurities to WHO approved levels.

    Notice, it is not expected to remove all, just enough to meet acceptable standards.

    So we do expect the desal plant to output some impurities.

    Like

  • Everybody ingests a bit of shit whether they know it or not.

    The human body will tolerate it, once it is not too much!!

    Like

  • @ John March 5, 2021 5:00 PM
    “Everybody ingests a bit of shit whether they know it or not.

    The human body will tolerate it, once it is not too much!!”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    No wonder you so full of shit yourself!

    You are basically swimming in it with the only release valve being you oral cavity of stinking self-contradiction.

    So why do you recommend boiling your water before consumption since the BWA quality control officers are incompetently incapable of detecting high level of shit in the Bajan water.

    You have just made out an excellent case for the GoB to ban the importation of foreign shitty water in plastic bottles the same way it has banned the importation of marijuana deemed dangerous to public health.

    Like

  • Now the Turd is out of office 70% of Americans indicating they will agree to be vaccinated.

    Like

  • angela cox March 5, 2021 12:49 PM #: “Govt ought to ashamed to put statements in the media in reference to the awful state of the NIS and Welfare Board.”

    Hahahahaha……….

    You never cease to amaze me.

    If you had read about “the awful state of the NIS and Welfare Board” on social media, you would’ve run to BU ‘talking’ about ‘government’ not being transparent and accountable.

    Now the information was made available to the public, you’re ‘saying’ “govt ought to (be) ashamed to put statements in the media” about the situation.

    Like

  • Artax
    Ad usual u cherry pick to place emphasis on a comment wherever u like
    I never said govt should not publish.
    However in so doing govt incompetence stares all in the face and there is where the “shame” is applied

    Like

  • Miller……speaking about shit…..🤣🤣😂😂

    Like

  • Here are the levels of fecal coliforms found in the 1978 Water Resource Study in some wells inspite of the zoning policy.

    Like

  • So if fecal coliforms could still reach those wells imagine if the well was in a built up area with the water table 10’s of feet from the surface.

    Like

  • @ angela cox March 5, 2021 7:00 PM

    RE: “As usual u cherry pick to place emphasis on a comment wherever u like. I never said govt should not publish.”

    Come on, my friend. You made a comment to which I responded.

    Please indicate to me where in my contribution I

    (1). “cherry picked” your comments;

    (2). mentioned anything to suggest you “said govt should not publish.”

    Like

  • Artax

    My comments stand as what i meant.

    Like

  • Meanwhile over in the land of OZ

    Key points
    Testing of wastewater can show if SARS-CoV-2 – the virus that causes COVID-19 – is present in a local community.
    Victoria has joined other Australian states and territories and New Zealand in collaborative research that will help us detect viral fragments in wastewater systems and use testing results with other health data as part of our response.

    People who have or have recently had COVID-19 may shed fragments of the virus. These fragments can enter wastewater through toilets, bowls, sinks and drains. This viral shedding may come from different sources such as used tissues, off hands and skin, or in stools. This may last for a number of weeks beyond a person’s infectious period.

    Samples of wastewater are collected from treatment plants and in the sewer network, both in metropolitan and regional locations. These samples are analysed for fragments of coronavirus.

    If viral fragments are detected in the wastewater of an area where there have not been recent COVID-19 cases, local communities can be more vigilant, increase clinical testing, and help health authorities to target public health advice to minimise transmission.

    https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/wastewater-testing-covid-19

    Like

  • This is good too.

    https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/wastewater-testing-covid-19#wastewater-testing-results

    Does the detection of viral fragments in wastewater always mean there is an active case of coronavirus (COVID-19) in the area?

    Viral fragments in wastewater can be due to an active infectious case but it can also be due to someone who has had COVID-19 continuing to ‘shed’ the virus. While they may not be considered infectious, it can take several weeks for someone to stop shedding the virus. The person or people shedding the virus may be local or visiting the area.

    No matter where you are in Victoria, it is important that anyone with any symptoms of COVID-19, no matter how mild, gets tested. For more information on symptoms, visit the Getting tested page.

    Like

  • We may not be able to stop it getting into the desal plant but given what is happening in Singapore, Australia and NZ, we can stop it getting out.

    We need to understand the technology which may be the old UV light trick a la the Donald.

    Like

  • Attached are updated Covid-19 charts for the week ending 2021-03-05. The positivity chart indicates that positivity is generally trending in the right direction for Barbados as is also true for the Active cases chart. The Jamaica Active cases chart is still moving upwards. Trinidad’s chart continues to indicate admirable control. The fight to get back to a steady state control situation in Barbados continues. If you think it is useful I could update the positivity chart on a daily basis – Source: Lyall Small

    Like

  • Jamaica’s got a problem.

    How’s their water?

    Hiked there too, up Blue Mountain Peak.

    The problem with accepting water as a second means of infection is that to accept that it is a problem means you also have to accept the country is backward which is politically incorrect.

    It also blows apart the efficacy of a mask into which so much faith has been invested.

    So the COVID problem won’t be easily addressed in many countries, America and GB etc. included.

    Meanwhile, people continue to die.

    Those countries, in a minority, who really have a handle on their water supply will breeze through.

    Like

  • You should take not how Lyall is using data to support his submissions. It is what a scientists do.

    Liked by 1 person

  • DavidMarch 6, 2021 5:48 AM

    You should take not how Lyall is using data to support his submissions. It is what a scientists do.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Meaning precisely what?

    Can you translate into english?

    What exactly is Lyall’s submission?

    Like

  • Here is a translation…
    Your desal plant (brain) is not working and you are sending wastewater to BU.

    Like

  • If you can’t simply look at the map with the zones drawn in and not see what the problem is then you obviously can’t play this game!!

    Like

  • .. and you haven’t got a clue about your own country!!

    Like

  • Austria has suspended vaccinations with a batch of AstraZeneca’s coronavirus jabs as a precaution following the death of one person and the illness of another after the shots.

    The Federal Office for Safety in Health Care (BASG) said a 49-year-old woman died as a result of severe coagulation disorders.

    It also confirmed another 35-year-old woman developed a pulmonary embolism and is now recovering.

    The agency said it had received two reports ‘in a temporal connection’ with a vaccine from the same batch in the district clinic of Zwettl, Lower Austria…..(Quote)

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  • I started asking around to discover where the COVID hotspots are and see if my theory is a fit.

    It is unscientific and hearsay but I got two that fit.

    One is in the Black Rock area, the other is the Bridgetown area.

    All I ask is “Do you know of anyone who has had the COVID and where do they live?”

    Both areas fit.

    The water from the desal plant will be raised MOST LIKELY” to the nearest reservoir which would be the new one at St. Stephen’s Hill above Cave Hill University.

    From there it will be distributed to other reservoirs at similar elevations and then gravity fed to customers to the coast.

    I hope I am wrong but so far it is a fit.

    I am checking on a third one, same kind of elevation.

    However it is rather far away but the elevation is a fit.

    I know from my reading that water from the various pumping stations is sent to various reservoirs to build in redundancy.

    So it is likely St. Stephens Reservoir will receive from other well sources.

    So I can’t say for sure I am right but I am seeing a pattern developing here that suggests that I am.

    Like

  • https://hu-hu.facebook.com/bwa.bb/videos/the-new-proposed-zoning-changes/469967067714947/?__so__=permalink&__rv__=related_videos

    Where would you say this interview is being conducted?

    Did you notice the Zone A around the Desal Plant?

    Recommended since 2006, now being discussed 15 years later.

    Like

  • Singapore has the same 29 deaths, 110 active cases. There is 1 serious/critical case.
    Last death was November 29th 2020.

    New Zealand has the same 26 deaths, 78 active cases. No serious/critical cases.
    Last death was February 27th, 2020, and before that September 18th 2020.

    Dominica has the same 0 deaths, 14 active cases. No serious/critical cases.

    Grenada has 1 death, 0 active cases. No serious/critical cases.
    The single death occurred on January 5th, 2020.

    There is NO SPREAD in any of these countries.

    COVID may be present, BUT NO SPREAD.

    Water fits for these exceptional countries like a glove.

    Like

  • Got to be another means through which it is spread.

    Water fits.

    The countries in control of their water supplies don’t have the spread.

    It follows those with the spread are not in control of theirs, so called developed countries included.

    Like

  • The Governments around the world are infecting their own citizens, whether unknowingly or not.

    Like

  • Australia with 909 deaths, same as when I started discussing these countries with no spread, obviously did something to fix their problem.

    You can see it in their graphs.

    Like

  • Australia says that COVID can be licked with a little common sense.

    The other countries I raised show it need not have even spread.

    Like

  • Here is how Australia authorities reported they have successfully managed to combat COVID 19 so far. Nothing John the Barbados scholar has posted is mentioned.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/australia-coronavirus-cases-melbourne-lockdown/2020/11/05/96c198b2-1cb7-11eb-ad53-4c1fda49907d_story.html

    Like

  • @ John March 5, 2021 1:28 PM #: “I told you from the beginning that the GOB was going to break the NIS. It needs a solution and I believe I am giving it one. Lock down the desal plant and see what happens.
    Link the 11 or more hot spots to one or more reservoirs and see if the desal plant is the common denominator. Learn from the countries that have overcome it.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I understand the intended purpose of Ionics Freshwater Ltd.’s desalination plant in Spring Garden was to convert brackish water to potable water. I also understand 80ft deep wells were dug behind the plant to ‘capture’ the combination of sea and fresh water, which goes through a series of pre-treatment, desalination and post-treatment processes, before the fresh drinking water is distributed.

    There is a BWA pumping station in Free Hill, Black Rock, as well as a reservoir in Cave Hill, which was built a few years ago and another one in Lodge Hill.

    Are you’re suggesting the system has changed and they’re now converting sewage water to potable water?

    Like

  • Little island Hitlers………

    A businessman remanded to prison for breaching COVID-19 protocols has been hospitalised for more than a week and his shocked family say they were never made aware that he was ill.

    Hamenauth Sarendranauth’s son Surrendra said he heard about his father, who was remanded on February 17, being shifted from HMP Dodds to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital on March 2 through attorney Michael Lashley…..(Quote)

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 8, 2021 8:24 AM

    I understand the intended purpose of Ionics Freshwater Ltd.’s desalination plant in Spring Garden was to convert brackish water to potable water. I also understand 80ft deep wells were dug behind the plant to ‘capture’ the combination of sea and fresh water, which goes through a series of pre-treatment, desalination and post-treatment processes, before the fresh drinking water is distributed.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Here’s where we differ.

    You say seawater and freshwater.

    I say seawater, freshwater, wastewater and sewage.

    I’ve factored in the effect of gravity on the wastewater and sewage.

    You have not.

    Like

  • DavidMarch 8, 2021 4:26 AM

    Here is how Australia authorities reported they have successfully managed to combat COVID 19 so far. Nothing John the Barbados scholar has posted is mentioned.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/australia-coronavirus-cases-melbourne-lockdown/2020/11/05/96c198b2-1cb7-11eb-ad53-4c1fda49907d_story.html

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Once you accept there are two modes of spread, eradicating it is an exercise in commonsense.

    Keep the virus out of the drinking water by any means necessary.

    If it is allowed into the distribution mains all the locking down in the world will not eradicate it.

    It needs to be confined and allowed to die.

    It cannot be allowed to reinvade humans.

    Like

  • Going with the scientists!

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  • Look at this graph from Singapore.

    Nearly all of their cases are imported.

    There is very little spread locally.

    That’s the key.

    Confine it and let it die.

    If we can’t with certainty say that a particular water source is Covid free, shut it down.

    The most obvious contender is the desal plant.

    Like

  • DavidMarch 8, 2021 12:36 PM

    Going with the scientists!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I’m not only a Scientist but also a Technologist, Engineer and Mathematician!!

    For me it is common sense!!

    Same thing.

    Like

  • John March 8, 2021 12:28 PM #: “Here’s where we differ. You say seawater and freshwater. I say seawater, freshwater, wastewater and sewage. I’ve factored in the effect of gravity on the wastewater and sewage. You have not.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So, you’re essentially implying Ionics’ personnel “have not factored in the effect of gravity on the wastewater and sewage” as well. This leads me to ask if you’re aware of how water is desalinated?

    The desalination plant is located in Spring Garden and, if I’m not mistaken, it services areas that are within its proximity, such as from Fresh Water Bay, Pile Bay, Brandons, North and South Brighton, Brighton Road, Spring Garden, Straker’s Tenantry, Brighton Terrace, Farm, Deacons, Bird’s River, Land’s End, etc.
    Then, there are the other areas from Walmer Lodge going towards Black Rock Main Road to probably as far as Eagle Hall, including Black Rock Main Road, Danesbury, Free Hill, Retreat, Stanmore, Ellerslie Gap, St. Stephen’s Hill, Goddard’s Road, Cave Hill, Applegrove, Dear’s Land, Clevedale, Wavell, Grazettes, Fairfield, Belfield, Seclusion and the surrounding villages.

    There are five schools within this perimeter, St. Stephen’s Nursery, St. Stephen’s Primary, Ellerslie Secondary, Deacon’s Primary and we could include UWI; as well as several businesses, including Barbados Light & Power, SOL, Cockspur, RUBIS, ESSO, KFC, Carlton Supermarket, village shops, mini marts, bars, restaurants, doctors, lawyers, guest houses and others too numerous to mention……. many of which employ people who do not live in the area.

    I’m trying to understand something here. If your theories were accurate, then, judging from the size of the ‘catchment area,’ which is also densely populated, wouldn’t those villages be ‘hot-spots’ for COVID-19? And, if so, wouldn’t there have been many more reported cases of the virus or even an increase in the number of deaths as a result?

    So far, Ellerslie was forced to close sometime last year as a result of someone who did not reside within the ‘catchment area,’ being diagnosed with corona virus. There weren’t any reported closures of businesses as a result of the virus, other than what was enforced by ‘government.’

    Like

  • This time last year, when the CoVid pandemic first broke, and the high rate of black deaths in the UK was made public, I challenged the official explanation about co-morbidities and being frontline jobs done by black people.4esz
    I said then that doctors were killing black people and explained this by saying that doctors had enormous discretion in who they treated and who they allowed to die. I was ignored.
    The explanation I found hard to accept was the nonsense about black Brits being overweight and suffering from high blood pressure and diabetes as if these were unique to black people. Britain has the heaviest (ie fattest) people in Europe.
    A new book, by Jonathan Calvert, Failures of State: The Inside Story of Britain’s Battle with Coronavirus, now exposes how doctors, in an attempt to prove that the NHS could cope with the plague, refused people ICU treatment.
    I know Jonathan as a very thorough journalist, having worked briefly with him on the Sunday Times investigative Insight team as a freelance.
    I have said that medical racism is an ever-present evil we must face, and local doctors telling people to take vaccines and other forms of treatment have got to be very careful. The politics of medicine is real.
    Even mental illness: a higher proportion of black people are sectioned; a higher number are given the toughest treatments; fewer get so-called talkative treatment, the psychiatrist as to the psychologist.
    Learning by rote means quite often accepting what you are told by officials as the truth, whatever the discipline; we must challenge them, even when on the operating table.

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 8, 2021 2:36 PM

    I’m trying to understand something here. If your theories were accurate, then, judging from the size of the ‘catchment area,’ which is also densely populated, wouldn’t those villages be ‘hot-spots’ for COVID-19? And, if so, wouldn’t there have been many more reported cases of the virus or even an increase in the number of deaths as a result?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    What matters is the distribution area, not the catchment area.

    For example, The Belle’s water catchment is as far away as St. Joseph.

    But St. Joseph is not supplied from the Belle!!

    What we could say is that water from St. Joseph arriving at the Belle will not have many bacteria of viruses left living after the long travel time.

    On the other hand, water arriving from the Warrens Catchment would have a lot of bacteria and viruses still living. At one time it was suggested that Warrens be sewered but it never was..

    Hampton receives water from Massiah Street in St. John.

    But Massiah Street is not supplied from Hampton, more than likely Bowmanston.

    Similarly, water from Massiah Street arriving at Hampton will have low concentrations of bacteria or viruses.

    You are confusing the two areas.

    I’ll see if I can post the 1978 allocation of water from pumping stations at reservoirs.

    That is prior to the desal plant.

    There were 16 distribution areas all organised by elevation and fed by their respective reservoirs.

    Like

  • Each reservoir was fed from various sources.

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  • Let’s look at St. Lucy.

    In 1978 the projections for demand and the population expected is shown.

    St. Lucy would be supplied from three reservoirs Half Acre, Lamberts and Mount Stepney.

    Each would deal with a contour interval

    ALL of the water for St. Lucy back then came from Alleynedale Pumping Station.

    Alleynedale as will be shown is not supplied by the St. Lucy Catchment.

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  • These are the catchment areas in Barbados.

    The three catchment areas in St. Lucy, Bourbon, Content and St. Lucy do not yield sufficient underground water to justify a public water supply well.

    Not enough rain!!

    So the Alleynedale catchment is used to supply St. Lucy.

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 8, 2021 2:36 PM

    So far, Ellerslie was forced to close sometime last year as a result of someone who did not reside within the ‘catchment area,’ being diagnosed with corona virus. There weren’t any reported closures of businesses as a result of the virus, other than what was enforced by ‘government.’

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    https://gisbarbados.gov.bb/blog/the-ellerslie-school-closed-for-two-weeks/

    I would suggest the pupil may have got the virus from the water from the reservoir at Free Hill.

    The water in the reservoir at Free Hill may come from the desal plant and perhaps Belle as an element of redundancy would be engineered into the system.

    Belle has zone protection, the desal plant does not.

    It all comes down to concentrations and luck, or lack thereof.

    A student drinking water from a tap in Ellerslie may get water which may or may not have enough virus to infect him/her.

    It may have none by the time another student uses it.

    Maybe the groundsman used the infected water to water the garden.

    The school was closed, the students rejoiced, the student did not spread the covid to his/her school mates and recovered as expected.

    The authorities rejoiced at their decisive action and the lack of spread.

    “We got this” they may have said.

    Two weeks later the school was reopened.

    Same source of water as before.

    The possibility of a second mode of infection has to be eliminated.

    Were there any other infections in the area of the Ellerslie School?

    My non scientific survey says YES, Blackrock is a hot spot!!

    It is water!!

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 8, 2021 2:36 PM

    There are five schools within this perimeter, St. Stephen’s Nursery, St. Stephen’s Primary, Ellerslie Secondary, Deacon’s Primary and we could include UWI; as well as several businesses, including Barbados Light & Power, SOL, Cockspur, RUBIS, ESSO, KFC, Carlton Supermarket, village shops, mini marts, bars, restaurants, doctors, lawyers, guest houses and others too numerous to mention……. many of which employ people who do not live in the area.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    https://gisbarbados.gov.bb/blog/the-ellerslie-school-closed-for-two-weeks/

    “She cited the clusters which took place a few months ago within churches, at the National Assistance Board and a case where the Ministry of Health and Wellness had to conduct contact tracing of approximately 30 students at the University of the West Indies when a student who returned to Trinidad from Barbados tested positive for the virus.”

    There’s your UWI!!

    The student who tested positive on return to Trinidad may have contracted it from the water at UWI before he/she left to return to Trinidad.

    Possible also the student got it from droplets from another student who caught it from the water!!

    You see how important it is to lock down any source of water that may in all probability be a super spreader.

    The NAB I see is in Country Road, Bridgetown where my unscientific survey suggests to me that is a hot spot.

    Water perhaps from way back in May 2020?

    https://gisbarbados.gov.bb/blog/tag/national-assistance-board/

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  • I think it is way past time we accept the possibility that there are two types of spread.

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  • Here is another case in Black Rock

    Had to close down the Police Station in January this year.

    So my non scientific survey may very well be right.

    https://barbadostoday.bb/2021/01/16/black-rock-police-station-temporarily-closed-due-to-covid-19/

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  • Hastings Police Station closed.

    Right elevation to be supplied from desal plant but would need the current distribution network to know for sure.

    Perhaps officer was at Black Rock Police Station or had contacts there.

    https://www.nationnews.com/2021/01/29/hastings-worthing-police-station-closed/

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  • All four of these businesses are the right elevation or locality to suggest a connection with the desal plant.

    Speightstown is interesting.

    When Highway 2 A was dug up I remember a water main being laid to carry water from the desal plant to the North.

    Our genius leaders at the time had thrown away the 2 million gallons per day water supply at Porters, plus Norwood and Molyneux all in the name of Golf!!

    Shortfall had to be made up.

    https://www.nationnews.com/2021/01/15/four-businesses-affected-covid-19-close-temporarily/

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  • Now here is a hot spot in the Bridgetown area where a lot of people play up in a lot of water.

    All the deep cleaning of the QEH kitchen, contract tracing and risk stratification will be of no avail if water brought it in and continues to do so!!

    https://ms-my.facebook.com/CBCNews.bb/videos/12-covid-19-cases-force-qeh-kitchen-closure/4203479996348770/

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  • The authorities need to address the possibility that it is water borne.

    I think all roads will lead to the desal plant if I am right.

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  • This is common sense.

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  • David; I have’nt read all the posts related to John’s new “rabbit hole” but I just came across a July 2020 WHO Guidance Document on Covid-19 and water treatments which touches on a number of the claims he has made in this blog on BU.

    Here is the paper: file:///C:/Users/Lyall/Downloads/WHO-2019-nCoV-IPC_WASH-2020.4-eng.pdf

    Like

  • @Lyall
    Why waste time? That evidence was presented to “sewage” John on Feb.28 under the blog “BLP Protocols etc.” and he said that the documents were ancient history, presumably the scholar has more up to date information.

    Like

  • John March 8, 2021 6:39 PM #

    (1): RE: “I would suggest the pupil may have got the virus from the water from the reservoir at Free Hill. The water in the reservoir at Free Hill may come from the desal plant and perhaps Belle as an element of redundancy would be engineered into the system.”

    There aren’t any reservoirs in Free Hill, only a pumping station, which is located next to St. Stephen’s Primary.
    Perhaps you’re referring to the reservoir in Cave Hill, just below or above Hinds Hill, depending on which direction you’re traveling.

    (2): RE: “Were there any other infections in the area of the Ellerslie School? My non scientific survey says YES, Black Rock is a hot spot!!”

    I disagree with you. I’m not aware of any. You’ve conducted a ‘non scientific survey’ in an area with which you’re not familiar. Therefore, your conclusions are not only based on unfounded assumptions, but on ONE case as well.

    I’ve lived in Black Rock from the time I was three (3) years old. So, I could ‘say with authority’ I’m familiar with the area.

    Liked by 1 person

  • John March 8, 2021 6:57 PM #

    (1). RE: “She cited the clusters which took place a few months ago within churches, at the National Assistance Board and a case where the Ministry of Health and Wellness had to conduct contact tracing of approximately 30 students at the University of the West Indies when a student who returned to Trinidad from Barbados tested positive for the virus. There’s your UWI!!”

    It isn’t clear if the approximately 30 UWI students who tested positive for COVID-19 are from Cave Hill or St. Augustine. If it was Cave Hill, then, why wasn’t UWI closed as a result and why there weren’t other reported cases?

    (2). RE: “The NAB I see is in Country Road, Bridgetown where my unscientific survey suggests to me that is a hot spot.”

    Again, I disagree with you.

    I KNOW for a FACT that the NAB employee who tested positive for the virus and was responsible for infecting the other employees, was in contact with her husband’s relatives that came from England and stayed at their home while here on vacation.

    Liked by 1 person

  • John March 8, 2021 7:32 PM #: “Here is another case in Black Rock. Had to close down the Police Station in January this year. So my non scientific survey may very well be right.”

    I disagree with you once again.

    The ‘Barbados Today’ report indicated the police station was closed “due to COVID-19 contact tracing investigations involving a police officer attached to the station.” In other words, ONE (1) police officer.

    There are three (3) 8 hour shifts at each police station and Black Rock’s CID usually work 12 hours. As I previously indicated, the jurisdiction is densely populated, which would require the requisite ‘man power.’

    Let’s say for argument’s sake, 90% of officers drink water from the station. We also have to take into consideration other police officers who visit the station either on business or to provide additional man-power for assisting in arrests, executing search warrants, etc. Then, there is also the handling of suspects who allegedly committed crimes in multiple jurisdictions that may have been detained at Black Rock for some time and later transferred to other police stations.

    Under those circumstances, if it was actually the water as you are suggesting, wouldn’t there have been a widespread of the virus among police officers as well as though with whom they came into contact? Yet, there was only reported ONE (1) case at Black Rock.

    Police officers are front-line workers and I believe it was a precautionary measure to close Black Rock and test the officers and all those who were in contact therein, so as to detect and control the spread of COVID-19.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Let’s examine the desalination process.

    “Pretreatment: Before the actual desalination occurs, the brackish well water requires pretreatment. This is primarily to remove the suspended solids and particulates which may foul the reverse osmosis (RO) membranes.
    In addition, antiscalant is included in the pretreatment to prevent mineral scale build-up, allowing the desalination plant to run at higher water recoveries.

    Desalination: The heart of the plant is the RO system. RO is a widely accepted membrane-based technology for separating the incoming feed water into a desalted stream and concentrated stream by the application for pressure.
    The RO system design at the Spring Garden plant utilizes a combination of advanced membranes operating at low pressure and a single array to reduce the plant’s overall energy requirements and provide high quality drinking water.

    In the desalination system, up to 75% of the pressurized feed water is recovered as fresh water. The remaining portion of the high pressure feedwater concentrate is passed through an energy-recovery turbine to minimize electrical consumption before it is returned to the sea via deep well injection.

    Post treatment: The desalinated water is further treated for public consumption by a lime dosing step, which adds back some mineral content to the water and ensures good taste. The water is then chlorinated by dosing with a small amount of sodium hypochlorite.”

    Liked by 1 person

  • ArtaxMarch 9, 2021 12:00 AM

    Let’s examine the desalination process.

    “Pretreatment: Before the actual desalination occurs, the brackish well water requires pretreatment. This is primarily to remove the suspended solids and particulates which may foul the reverse osmosis (RO) membranes.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So you agree, viruses get through.

    They are neither suspended solids nor particulates so won’t foul the RO membranes.

    The only difference we have is what you are calling brackish water contains sewage and wastewater.

    Just a fact of life called the force of gravity.

    Like

  • Lyall

    Your WHO guideline is from July 2020.

    The survival time of the virus in water was shown to be as much as 5 weeks in the scientific paper first published in October 2020.

    All that happened is that people found out more about the virus and where it can survive and for how long.

    This is the natural way of acquiring knowledge.

    Using a July 2020 guide line is folly if an october discovery more evidence than was known in July.

    Sewage and wastewater is present, fact of life, in the “brackish water” processed by the desal plant which has no zone protection to ensure a travel time to ensure any bacteria or virus is either dead or present in very low concentrations.

    Like

  • As Atrax has pointed out in the process he described, viruses are a problem.

    Like

  • John the scientist and Barbados scholar. We salute you.

    Like

  • The other fact about the “DESAL” plant you have to appreciate is that it is NOT A REAL DESAL PLANT!!

    It cannot handle seawater which has greater than 35,000 ppm TDS.

    When it was installed, it worked on water with up to 5,000 ppm, “brackish water”.

    That was what the Engineer responsible at the time said in a presentation to BAPE.

    PPM = parts per million.

    TDS = Total Dissolved Solids

    BAPE = Barbados Association of Professional Engineers

    http://www.ionicsfreshwater.com/index.php/projects

    If you notice in the “specs”,

    “The treated product water meets the World Health Organisation (WHO) water quality standards and has operated trouble free since commissioning.

    After over ten years of operation the original membranes are still a achieving water quality which meets the water authority’s product water specification requirement of < 250 mg/l TDS.”

    In other words, some impurities get through, up to 250 mg/l.

    Prior to 2020, it never had the virus that causes COVID thrown at it.

    Does it get through?

    I would suggest if we can’t curb the spread in the areas it supplies the answer is common sense …. yes!!

    Like

  • DavidMarch 9, 2021 2:09 AM

    John the scientist and Barbados scholar. We salute you.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Why thank you!!

    Like

  • There are two aspects to substances dissolved in water, one is concentration, the other toxicity.

    Arsenic, lead are toxic in minute concentrations when compared with say nitrates, chlorides or calcium.

    What are the WHO guidelines on the virus which causes COVID?

    How much does the WHO consider safe?

    Nobody knows how much is present or how much is safe.

    Has a PCR test ever been done on our water?

    Will it even work?

    Why don’t we know?

    Like

  • Back in 1978, the WHO guidelines for Arsenic in drinking water was 0 mg/l for the Maximum Acceptable Concentration and 0.05 mg/l for the maximum Allowable.

    For Calcium Carbonate it was 100 mg/l and 500 mg/l.

    One thing the “DESAL PLANT” does it it softens water.

    Like

  • Water SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR Test

    Public health studies show that testing wastewater for SARS-CoV-2 is an important epidemiological tool during the COVID-19 pandemic.1,2

    The Water SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR Test is a real-time reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-qPCR) test that detects and quantifies RNA from the SARS-CoV-2 virus in untreated wastewater. Supported by an industry leader with over 20 years of experience manufacturing wastewater testing kits, public health departments, researchers, and laboratories can confidently deliver consistent results to help protect their communities.3

    https://www.idexx.com/en/water/water-products-services/water-sars-cov-2-rt-pcr-test/#:~:text=The%20Water%20SARS%2DCoV%2D2%20RT%2DPCR%20Test%20has,RNA%2C%20from%20a%20wastewater%20concentrate.

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 8, 2021 11:04 PM

    I KNOW for a FACT that the NAB employee who tested positive for the virus and was responsible for infecting the other employees, was in contact with her husband’s relatives that came from England and stayed at their home while here on vacation.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    How do you know if the NAB employee was not infected by someone at work, or the supermarket or wherever?

    When she came into contact with her husband’s relatives she might have already had COVID.

    Isn’t this common sense?

    If you want to be scientific you would need to have some measure of exactly when the lady contracted COVID.

    Since the body is shedding virus which can be found in sewage a week before actual symptoms show it is not possible to know exactly when a person was infected.

    Like

  • John March 9, 2021 3:13 AM #

    I previously wrote, “I KNOW for a FACT that the NAB employee who tested positive for the virus and was responsible for infecting the other employees, was in contact with her husband’s relatives that came from England and stayed at their home while here on vacation.”

    Yet, you ‘asked’ me a SILLY question. My friend, you do not reason like a man who has ‘common sense.’ Nevertheless, I’ll follow you down ‘the rabbit hole’ and answer you.

    (1). RE: “How do you know if the NAB employee was not infected by someone at work, or the supermarket or wherever?”

    Why you DID NOT take that into consideration when you wrote, “The NAB I see is in Country Road, Bridgetown where my unscientific survey suggests to me that is a hot spot?”

    So, you’ve essentially contradicted yourself.

    However, I’m aware of that particular situation. The individual involved is a friend of my whom I’ve known for over 30 years.

    (2). RE: “When she came into contact with her husband’s relatives she might have already had COVID.”

    NO, she DID NOT. And, I’m sure you’ve heard about ‘CONTACT TRACING.’

    Sometime ago, Mariposa posted a misleading comment to BU about that situation, which I refuted. Ask David. I ‘told’ him privately, about the circumstances surrounding the issue.

    Like

  • We’re dealing with a virus.

    Yet, you mentioned something about conducting a “survey,” based on “unscientific methods and hearsay.”

    You’ve essentially used the ‘results’ of your so called survey that’s based on “hearsay,” and WAS NOT CONDUCTED in ACCORDANCE with scientific principles, knowledge or methodology, as a basis to identify ‘hot spots’ in Barbados and determine the desalination plant is the agent responsible for spreading COVID-19 through the water distribution system.

    Which, in my opinion, are unfounded conclusions……… conclusions that are not based on fact or realistic considerations or not supported with evidence.

    My friend, you’re prone to analysing a situation to an extreme degree. Perhaps that’s one of the reasons why your thoughts on issues are easily and successfully refuted by other contributors.

    Like

  • @Atax

    John is a Barbados scholar and scientist. Why are you denying?

    Like

  • @ David

    Okay. I’m sorry, I forgot.

    Like

  • We’ll see.

    Pure common sense is al that is needed!!

    Like

  • … and in the meantime, if you live in the coastal areas, boil any water you consume … use bottled water if necessary.

    I was discussing my theory with a guy from St. John.

    He told me that he remembers in the past Rastas in the Pothouse area died from drinking water from Quintyne’s spring.

    For those unfamiliar with it, Quintyne’s Spring is located directly under Hackleton’s Cliff in the Pothouse Area.

    On top is a large housing development.

    Sure the water looks good and satisfies the requirement that it must come from a spring but looks can kill!!

    So boil your water.

    They were told to boil the water but refused.

    Now some are dead.

    Like

  • Which it seems as though you’ve not utilized to form your unfounded conclusions.

    Like

  • An opinion is a statement describing a personal belief or thought that cannot be tested (or has not been tested) and is unsupported by evidence. … Theories are not described as true or right, but as the best-supported explanation of the world based on evidence.

    I’m just coming up with a theory to explain observable events.

    I try to avoid opinions as much as possible, a waste of time.

    I love processing facts looking for their explanations

    Like

  • @ John March 9, 2021 10:36 AM
    “Sure the water looks good and satisfies the requirement that it must come from a spring but looks can kill!!
    So boil your water.
    They were told to boil the water but refused.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You continue to ‘expatiate’ on this drinking water matter like a chattering parrot with a forked tongue.

    How can you recommend the drinking of imported water in plastic bottles without knowing the source of that same water?

    The same way you ‘know’ that the Rastas died from drinking “spring” water in Barbados don’t you think similarly contaminated ‘spring’ water or even sewage-treated pipe water could put in plastic bottles and exported to Barbados which health authorities never test compared to that supplied by the BWA?

    Using your logic, shouldn’t people in Barbados be boiling the imported water they buy in large quantities in plastic containers?

    How do you know that it was not the lingering bacteria from the decomposed bodies buried in the cholera ground on the same Hackleton Cliff which got into the underground water killed off some of the Rastas?

    Like

  • @ Miller

    I was a bit confused as well, because his reference to Quintyne’s Spring is introducing a completely different argument.

    Did he expect a different result if people decided to drink unpurified water directly from a spring?

    And, he’s suggesting the desalination plant should be closed.

    Like

  • Don’t try to fix it.

    Like

  • I observe facts regarding bottled water.

    It is consumed worldwide.

    If there are incidents they are few and it is probably safer than the various vaccines which are in start go phase.

    Like

  • Grasshopper

    I guess you are expressing an opinion and can’t formulate a theory on your own to fit observable facts.

    Like

  • JohnMarch 9, 2021 12:32 PM

    I observe facts regarding bottled water.

    It is consumed worldwide.

    If there are incidents they are few and it is probably safer than the various vaccines which are in start go phase.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There are more countries around the world that have stopped their vaccinations than have stopped the importation of bottled water.

    Besides, anyone knows the likelihood that the bottled water comes from a spring is close to zero!!

    Only half wits would assume such a thing.

    The water is treated and meets stringent requirements before it is bottled and sold.

    No spring can supply the worldwide demand for bottled water on its own!!

    So that’s just a little bit of knowledge I freely share.

    Meanwhile, boil your water if you even suspect it is from the Desal plant!!

    Drink bottled water.

    Like

  • The water treatment plants that produce bottled water is like the Desal plant on steroids!!

    Like

  • re How do you know that it was not the lingering bacteria from the decomposed bodies buried in the cholera ground on the same Hackleton Cliff which got into the underground water killed off some of the Rastas?

    THAT IS A STUPID SPECULATIVE STATEMENT STUPID!.
    IF I WAS A CAROONIST I WOULD NOW MAKE FOR MY MICROBIOLOGY CLASS SHOWING LINGERING CENTURY OLD BACTERIA HANGING ON ON CRUTCHES FOR DEAR LIFE. OH ME AM.

    SHALL I MAKE THEM GRAM POSITIVE OR NAGATIVE
    SHALL I MAKE THEM INDIVIDUAL BACILLI OR COCCI OR SHALL I DRAW THEM IN CHAINS
    OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE NOT MOBILE OR THEY WOULD PERHAPS HAVE LEFT THE AREA LONG AGO.

    Like

  • Dominica could open a water bottling plant and market COVID free water!!

    I’m sure it would sell like hotcakes in any country.

    No deaths from COVID in Dominica to date!!

    They could really make a killing, no pun intended.

    Like

  • ArtaxMarch 9, 2021 11:34 AM

    @ Miller

    I was a bit confused as well, because his reference to Quintyne’s Spring is introducing a completely different argument.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I almost forgot to mention that Quintyne’s Spring would have received its name from a 17th century Quaker family who lived in the area and owned some land.

    Must be slipping.

    There is or was an old family vault at the bottom of Pot House Hill, another example of a Quaker burial.

    People are buried all over Barbados.

    Like

  • MillerMarch 9, 2021 11:10 AM

    How do you know that it was not the lingering bacteria from the decomposed bodies buried in the cholera ground on the same Hackleton Cliff which got into the underground water killed off some of the Rastas?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You may be confusing the Quaker Burial Ground on Hackleton Cliff at Malvern with Cholera Field at Colleton, upstream of Bowmanston, not Quintyne’s Spring.

    If a travel time of 100 days defeats bacteria and protects the public water supply wells then Bacteria from 1854 can safely be assumed to have reached its expiry date.

    Bowmanston was discovered in the late 1880.s, more than 30 years after Cholera.

    The mathematical problem you could consider is how many times will 100 days got into 30 years.

    This will tell you just how dead the bacteria was when Bowmanston first started pumping.

    If you want to know by 2021 just how really dead it is, divide 100 days into 133 years.

    See if Grasshopper can help you with the computational aspects of the two mathematical problems.

    Like

  • Malvern of course is far from St. John’s Church and Pothouse Hill, Quintyne’s.

    Like

  • So the lesson to be gleaned from the experience of the Rastas, the Quakers, Cholera, the Quintyne family and the spring is that water can kill.

    Like

  • I like to make a story interesting, a technique I learnt from the days of Fanny Fields at HC.

    It helps children learn better.

    Like

  • @ John March 9, 2021 5:24 PM

    So if wasn’t the cholera from over 150 years ago, what then really killed off the Rastas instead of the Bajan-white dinosaurs of sugar plantation managers?

    Was it Covid-19 which was first detected in Barbados by you, of course, in 2010?

    Why couldn’t it have been your Yahweh or their (Rasta) Jah hiding inside some burning bush smoking a ganga pipe on Mount Sinai because they were caught roasting a pig (instead of grasshoppers) on a spit made of lead from the coffins stolen from the same white people cholera ground?

    BTW, why would your god Yahweh (who is a Bajan himself) want to destroy Bajans (his own people) through water when he himself promised he would not do it again by putting a rainbow in the sky off the coast of St. John?

    Like

  • https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Psalms-Chapter-91/

    1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

    2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

    3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

    4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

    5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

    6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

    7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    How can God get a “noisome pestilence” to destroy a thousand “at thy side, and ten thousand at they right hand” and “it shall not come nigh to thee”?

    How come Dominica is untouched and Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, Bermuda, Greenland etc. have managed to do something right while many fall from the same “noisome pestilence” that is roaming the earth?

    Like

  • MillerMarch 9, 2021 6:44 PM

    @ John March 9, 2021 5:24 PM

    So if wasn’t the cholera from over 150 years ago, what then really killed off the Rastas instead of the Bajan-white dinosaurs of sugar plantation managers?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Maybe they were Quakers and put their trust in God.

    2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

    I don’t know, but it is an interesting point you raise.

    Like

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