Lack of ‘Exposure’ Creates Vacuum for Some Barbadians in the Black History Debate

Submitted as a comment by Lyall to the Open Letter to Prime Minster Mottley and Minister King

Captain Hutt taught me History at HC. I was therefore someone who learnt that history from the viewpoint of the English teacher class, by rote. For many years I had no need to check the truth or otherwise of what I had been taught, as History played a miniscule part in my life until the Sir George William’s / Concordia University fire in Montreal and the activities that led up to it. I later on visited Ghana where I saw first hand the places and trails where my African ancestors were caught and enslaved and then shipped under unspeakable conditions along the Middle Passage to Barbados. I also spent some time in Hull, England, another hub of the Slave trade, where racism was palpable even just 20 years ago.

These experiences forced me to progressively reevaluate Black History and, after an initial cognitive dissonance, accept that chattel slavery and its fruit and most of its manifestations is responsible for much of what is wrong in many aspects of life and governance of present day Barbados.

I think that my experiences also allow me to understand the standpoint of many of my acquaintances, friends and colleagues, of my age, who have had the benefit of seeing both sides of white/black relationships in Metropolitan countries. I see the postings of several BU posters who appear to be resident in Canada, the US and perhaps England, which show that exposure to life in metropolitan countries, forces an understanding of the black side of history that is largely missing from those who lack such experience and have remained in Barbados and who must depend on local sources to inform their views. Lack of such exposure in the Bajan who has largely stayed on this rock tends to lead to such persons staying with what what they have been taught by rote several years ago.

There is another type of BU commenter. The commenter who always espouses the decadent views of the Bajan white class, whether they themselves are black or white. Some of these BU commenters are totally predictable in the stances they take. Some even totally mimic Trump or Rush Limbaugh. You know who I mean.

173 thoughts on “Lack of ‘Exposure’ Creates Vacuum for Some Barbadians in the Black History Debate

  1. peterlawrencethompsonJune 15, 2020 9:41 AM


    You ask rhetorically “which student was going to read a 3 inch thick book on his own…” I did of course (it was barely 1.5 inches thick).


    Do you know the meaning of rhetoric?

    Can you remember the name of the book you read?

    Sure seemed like 3 inches to me, maybe more.

  2. @PLT

    Peter you came with this nonsense before, only then you said it was 1951. You claimed then you father told you stories. Why do you make these outrageous claims? I remember you did the same thing with Thomas Piketty’s book, then claimed you read it online. Stop it.
    Explain the failure of Barbados between 1627 and 1680, the census, a period when for most of that time whites were the majority population. One minute you pretend to scholarship, then the next you play Mussolini rousing the hysterical mob.
    Go on: list the metrics by which Barbados is better off in 2020 than it was in 1965. List every single conceivable one”, not just your favourites.
    You say the celebration of November 30, 1966 was not a discontinuity. I agree. I said that again on BU only a few days ago, plse t ell us why this is. Also explain why the last 393 years have been a travesty. Don’t just make bold, hysterical statements. Explain why this is the case.
    Tell us why the years since 1966 have not changed anything, apart from not being a discontinuity. Even better, tell us what kind of discontinuity you would have preferred.
    Why is it to say that the colonial administration was more competent and efficient is racist? Explain yourself. What do you mean by racism? And you compare it with post-independence administration negatively, is this part of the period of “historical travesty and a tragedy”?
    Then you claim the post-independence barrier was so low that they have been “abject failures”. So we are comparing types of failure.
    @PLT I am sure that you can make a very positive contribution to BU and to the public education of Barbadians, but you must stop this maniacal hysteria and fabrication of a past you want to dislike. Stop trying to be popular and be intellectually honest.
    I am reluctantly reaching the stage when I am going to dismiss your contribution as I do the angry BU keyboard warriors. Think before you write.

  3. @Hal
    I am not popular anywhere on the globe that I know of and I make absolutely no effort to be popular. The Picketty book that I read is his 2013 work “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010” I still have the PDF of it on my computer so I can share it with you if you like.
    It is not my job to educate you. But do recall that the period 1627 and 1680 includes the era of Cromwell and the Barbados connected atrocities against Irish people.
    You say that I made “outrageous claims.” Which claim was outrageous? I claimed that:
    + Barbados is much better off in 2020 than it was in 1965 by every single conceivable measure.
    + the Colonial regime in Barbados was worse in every respect than the regimes after independence.
    Are they both outrageous?

  4. @PLT

    You just cannot help fabricating stories. The Piketty book you mentioned was not the one we discussed earlier. We were talking then about Capital in the 21st Century, his first book. Typical. You just manufacture things.
    @PLT I am always willing to be educated by anyone, but after years on BU there is very little, if anything, you can educate me about – unless it is about the integrity of Charles Herbert.
    You still make bold claims but no explanation. It is your style. You make a broad sweep about Barbados from 1627, I asked if that included the period when whites were the majority. You now say atrocities were committed against the Irish.
    Then you go on to ask me what were ‘outrageous claims’. Nearly all your claims were outrageous. Provide the evidence to back them up. You have also repeated the historical and sociological semi-literate nonsense about Barbados being better off on ‘every conceivable measure’ since 1965. Where is the evidence? What are the metrics on which this silly claim is based? Document them.
    Then you say the colonial regime was worse in ‘every respect’ than the regimes after independence, but then claimed they were both a historical ‘travesty and tragedy’
    Again, where is the evidence. It is true that we have the right to govern ourselves as a free people, and part of that is to succeed or fail, but this is not what you are saying.
    You are making bogus claims because you think they sound good. You are no better than the Google brigade on BU. Go away and do your homework.

  5. Thomas Piketty simply picked up on online discussions about wealth inequality to come up with his thesis which was no groundbreaker. The original discussions that he plagiarised were about wealth inequalities between first and third world, where one months salary in third world is equivalent to one days salary in the first world. You have to visit third world to understand real poverty in a whole region, and even then you will be living in 5 star hotels or fancy colonial style homes and not backstreet shanty town homes.
    Books by white boys won’t teach you anything about wealth inequality and they are designed to make themselves rich.

  6. @Hal

    I wish you would go back and check the record of our conversation. I said that I had read Piketty on capital but that I struggled with the math. You said there was no math in it so I must be lying. I said that the electronic manuscript that I read had math. I then searched for it on my old hard drive to find it because I wanted to figure out if I was going crazy. I found it and yes, the math still challenges me. Since I was not crazy I put the episode bout of my mind. P.S. “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010” was published before “Capital in the 21st Century.”

    The socio-economic conditions in Barbados between 1627 and 1834 are best summed up by the Barbados “Act for the Better Ordering and Governing of Negroes.” QED. If you disagree then we are simply not speaking the same language. This legislation is to Barbados what Endlösung der Judenfrage is to Germany 1933-45.

    The socio-economic conditions in Barbados between 1834 and 1966 are well summarized by the results of Dr. Frank Ramsey’s research on childhood malnutrition here. Dr. GP can fill you in on the details or you use Google (Sacre Bleu!).

    What I am saying is that the colonial regimes were based on such gross and vicious racist criminality that their main achievements amounted to nothing but bloodshed, suffering, cruelty, and inhumanity. The veil that the Church’s education drew across such atrocities does not compensate in the least part or obscure the base evil upon which the colonial regimes were based.

    Nothing I write or say is intended to be popular… indeed my sole talent appears to be a tendency to piss people off. Sometimes that is by design (John Knox & Fascist Crier), at other times it is entirely inadvertent, as with yourself.

  7. But he answered, “It is written,
    ‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
    but by every word that proceeds
    out of the mouth of God.’”

    And man will be judged not only by the words of his mouth but the meditation of his heart

    Words Re-Vision

  8. @Hal
    P.P.S. I made no assertions “about the integrity of Charles Herbert.” I simply established that he was not stupid at the beginning of the discussion, and then that he was not guilty as charged with toward the end of that discussion. Far from making me popular, it probably made me the most hated man on BU, even more so than John Knox. So be it.

  9. Hal, I cannot agree that the failures are as a result of the leadership. Yes, leadership does play a part in development and surely corruption has caused a massive economic hit on the island.

    However, the leadership is derived from the society, from what is accepted in society, the norms of society i.e. the culture.

    The ingrained approach caused by ”chattel slavery and its fruit and most of its manifestations is responsible for much of what is wrong in many aspects of life and governance of present day Barbados” is really the underlying cause. The leadership is but one symptom.

    Many of the cultural manifestations that Lyall refers to are present to this day. That is why his/ her statement rang so true.

    It is only now that cricket in the Caribbean has taken a backseat to the more popular western sports that the vestiges of the old cricket clubs, formed by social strata and creed has also reclined.

    We all know why each of those individual clubs were formed. By specific social status and color.

    The same can be said for the private schools, wherein some of the same stigmas and social bullying still takes place, based on social strata.

    What about the nightclubs and discos in the 70’s and 80’s, all driven by the same thing. White people went one place and black people another, except for some who had specific social standing?

    It is so ingrained in every aspect of life and that cannot be denied. Which means that any development is tainted with the same social connections, the same approach to social standing and reflects the old mentalities manifesting in modern ways.

    We all also know that bajans are still very much aware of different shades of color, from real white, to red, to high brown, to black.

    As I have said before, thankfully the young people in Barbados seem to be shedding this old crap and moving on, as needs to be done.

    But that depends on which young people and how their own parents taught them and were an example.

    On the matter of teaching of history and the reference to Captain Hutt, all I remember is that there were some far more peculiar people at that school than he was. That was a really strange place, again, the social strata issue was strong, the bullying by teachers and students alike. It was a strange experience, which some others I know agree with. However, again, to me that was a manifestation of the broader society.

    Lyalls words rang so true when I saw them, bang on and a true reflection of the underlying issues. You want to get past that, you have to address what Lyall said.

  10. @Hal
    “What are the metrics on which this silly claim is based?”

    Life expectancy
    Poverty rates
    Childhood malnutrition
    Education levels
    Social mobility

    You can do your own research to verify that Barbados has improved across all these dimensions.

  11. @peterlawrencethompson
    June 15, 2020 12:19 PM

    Addendum. PLT’s post re the furor over his comments re the CH issue merely supports Lyall’s assertion.
    Whether PLT is right or not, and he may be, is not relevant to referencing Lyall’s point.

    What is relevant is that it was such an issue in the first place. The minute that boat was stopped it became an issue of color and social standing. No more nor less. Despite it should have been guilty or innocent based on facts.

    Need I say more?

  12. @Crusoe
    I cannot fathom why so many Barbadians fail to grasp that our leadership deficits are only a symptom of our problems, not the cause. Lyall’s clearly traces the poison to its root: “chattel slavery and its fruit and most of its manifestations is responsible for much of what is wrong in many aspects of life and governance of present day Barbados.”

    I understand why the racists find this hard to swallow because it makes them feel guilty so they have to go into paroxysms of denial in order to put a lid on what remains of their consciences. What puzzles me is that so many others fail to grasp this fundamental truth.

  13. 555dubstreet
    June 15, 2020 11:53 AM

    Then you may add the query of why certain large developed countries are pumping money into supporting fighting in these underdeveloped countries, where the terrible leaders actually listen to the warmongers and allow themselves to be used to keep their own downtrodden.

    War is by design a method to keep the world’s capital in the hands of a few, at the expense of the many. The other major tool is drugs.

  14. peterlawrencethompson
    June 15, 2020 12:41 PM Not sure. Are we frightened to admit the truth? As you would know (change management), change is a feared thing. By admitting this, one admits that there must be change.

  15. “War is by design a method to keep the world’s capital in the hands of a few, at the expense of the many. The other major tool is drugs”

    Military Industrial Complex is a money making scam where tax monies are siphoned off to shareholders, PNAC wars keep the cash flow and profits. US use local mercenaries now as they are cheap $150 per month.

  16. @ PLT

    Details. What are the figures? Poverty, childhood nutrition (you mentioned this before, only it was 1951 then, and you got that from a conversation with your father who knew Dr Ramsay. I asked you then for the empirical data. I do again), education levels, social mobility.
    Where is the evidence for all these headlines? Go away and Google each one and come back with answers. I do not have to do any research. I am calling you out for waffle and bluffing. I am not making any claims, you are. Where is the proof. @PLT, I said to you over a year ago that I can tell when you are bluffing from the word go and you have not changed.
    Stop it and do proper research before making bogus claims. Of course, you are free to express an opinion, but make it clear it is an opinion and not a FACT.
    You have done it before, well regularly. It is your modus operandi. You attended five seminars at McGill’s on economics and have the confidence to challenge people who have spent decades studying the subject.
    Only a couple weeks ago you came on with a call for a universal basic income. When asked to justify the claim, you dodged again. I did not pursue it because it was clear you had just read about it and Googled the subject.
    Again you come out with waffle about Piketty. Capital in the 21st Century is a book full of comprehensive tables (not maths), and I know that was the book we discussed because ait is the first and only book by Piketty I have read. In fact, as I have said here before, I attended his public lecture at the LSE when I bought my book. I have not read any of his other books.
    By the way, you did not make any literal claims about Charles Herbert’s integrity, but you defended him following allegations of drug running. Implicit in that, in ordinary English, is that your old school mate was a man of integrity. Unless you are defending a person of known lack of integrity?
    What about your ridiculous claim he was not guilty. Read that again, silly man. Are you a jury? That is why we have due process. @PLT cool down a bit and stop with your rants about racism and try to be logical and factual. If it is an opinion, well say so. You do not piss me off, you embarrass me with your ranting and ignorance. You are playing to the mob. Exactly as Mussolini did.

  17. @PLT, why (rhetorically asking) do you perceive that “…many Barbadians fail to grasp that our leadership deficits are only a symptom of our problems, not the cause”… to paraphrase Trini social commentator P. Keens-Douglas:‘who fool you wid dat’!

    Whether Bajan, Vincies or Yankees the only issue re acceptance that our political angst and thus the social issues created is OUR own mental deficit or self denial…. we don’t fail to grasp a damn thing IMHO… we just refuse to acknowledge … that cognitive dissonance the Blogmaster reminded us of just recently.

    A nation that fulminated with a lot of hot-air on issues such as ‘condoms in prison’ because that projected an acceptance of homosexuality ALTHOUGH at that time prominent politicians and members of society were ‘openly gay’ -in context of awareness in our gossipy society- …we are in denial, NOT about failing to grasp a thing!

    We huffed and puffed for years about our supposedly awesome Christian values and railed against cruise ship same-sex tourist based on our supercilious attitude of moral strength … yet, we fully accepted a certain top-boy politician and his well-known “Me Too” abusive behavior towards women; then fell in ‘love’ with the scion from another political family and full accepted ‘accepted’ her sexual orientation as a ‘so what’ …she is now PM… we are in nature’s life denial, cognitive dissonant la-la land … NOT about failing to grasp a thing!

    I gone.

    @Mr. Blogmaster, thanks re yesterday’s request.. I gotta update my old system asap and thus avoid seeking these ‘mulligans’!

  18. @Hal
    As I already pointed out, it’s not my job to educate you. I use all the tools at my disposal to educate myself, including Google without shame. I made assertions that are factual based on reading and educating myself that I’ve done over years. You are free to disagree if you wish to, but if you want to learn more you will have to put in the effort yourself. Of course you “do not have to do any research.” It is your prerogative to refuse to learn if that is what you wish.

    I have never met Piketty or heard him lecture. I found his book soon after I first heard of him about 5 years ago, downloaded it and read it… 993 pages with lots of math made it tough going… I think it took me almost a year to work my way through it. It is the only book by Piketty that I have read so it is clear to me now that we were talking about different books even though they were apparently based on the same research. Perhaps he wrote “Capital in the 21st Century” for the masses and that’s why he left out the math.

    I challenge experts in their area of expertise all the time; lawyers over the law, medical doctors over medicine, economists over economic policy… it’s how I learn new things. I have never stopped learning about economics after I was at McGill.

    Of course I “did not make any […] claims about Charles Herbert’s integrity.” I simply asserted opinions about his intellect and his guilt based on facts in my possession. You interpreted that as a defense of him, but that’s between your own ears. There was nothing implicit in anything I wrote in plain discursive English with the odd typo. He has a high priced lawyer for his defense, (my opinion based on facts in my possession) so that’s not a role I would assume.

    You misquote me with ease and frequency, but it does not bother me. I am totally cool… cool, logical, and factual is all I ever am.

  19. @de pedantic Dribbler
    You are right, of course, that “we don’t fail to grasp a damn thing […] we just refuse to acknowledge…”
    So while we rail against the racial and class segregation of our society… we refuse to acknowledge where it originated. We rail against the young males engaged in murderous gun violence… we just refuse to acknowledge the roots of violence in our culture.

    Forget cropover, forget flying fish, forget spouge… this refusal to acknowledge is perhaps the most defining feature of Barbadian culture.

    • @Peter

      It tracks to the cognitive dissonance we have been discussing lately. We acknowledge in our dining rooms and in the rum shops. In the glare of the public we force ourselves to be ‘nice’.

  20. @PLT

    I will settle at calling you a fabricator, but I reserve a harsher judgement which will remain private. You shift and turn, bob and weave, all the time to give yourself an image on BU that is undeserving. I have never called you a liar, but that is fine you can misquote me.
    You can make a good impression without fabricating nonsense. I am not an archivist and do not log BU blogs, but it is irritating when one cannot believe a single thing you say. What is even wore, is that you think you can fool all of us.
    Which book of Piketty’s have you read that took you a year to read? Was it Capital in the 21st Century? I say again, that is the only one of Piketty’s book I have read and the discussion was not about maths it was about the book. The only time maths came up was after I challenged you. I would not have challenged you on any other book by Piketty. But this is what you said earlier: “The Picketty book that I read is his 2013 work “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010” I still have the PDF of it on my computer so I can share it with you if you like”, (Quote) Which is it?
    Then you go off again talking about educating me. Start by publishing the evidence to substantiate your claims above, abut Barbados between 1627 and 2020. And stop fabricating nonsense about forming opinions after you have read imaginary statistics.
    By the way, you studied engineering at McGill’s so I assume that you would have had A level maths or its equivalent to qualify for the course. In the UK you do not need A level maths at most universities to study economics. Piketty writes about economics. You are again playing fast and loose with the actualite. There is nothing in Capital in the 21st Century that a good O level maths student will not understand.
    @PLT you are an intellectual fraud, a bluffer, you live in your own little world. Here you are again about Charles Herbert. Did you do O level English at your grand school? What illiteracy. You did not say anything about his integrity, but here is what you said:
    “Of course I “did not make any […] claims about Charles Herbert’s integrity.” I simply asserted opinions about his intellect and his guilt based on facts in my possession. You interpreted that as a defense of him…” Have you ever read Michael Dummett? Start with his Grammar and Style, then go on to his logic.
    Instead of going to economics seminars you should have attended basic understanding English classes. What were your ‘opinions’ about Charles Herbert? That the intellect of your white friend would not lead him to be involved in allegations of drug running? Grow up? What facts you have in your possession? Another fabrication, or that he is too intellectual to be a drug running suspect?
    Then you come back with your obsession about racists; this moral confusion is the same as the top lawyers and criminal justice officials that decided it was not in the public interest to pursue a case against Herbert. You are no better than those who kow-tow to the Indians and Lebanese and Plantation folk that clog up business and social life in Barbados. Next time get a knee pad.
    Shouting and hysteria does not hide the fact that you make up a lot of your claims to knowledge. Now I have dealt with your bogus claims about Piketty, how about justifying your claims to a universal basic income?
    I do not expect you to put forward a sophisticated economic argument, just tell us why you think it is a good idea. An opinion.

  21. re “we don’t fail to grasp a damn thing […] we just refuse to acknowledge…”

    2 peter 3: 5 puts it this way in KJV “For this they willingly are ignorant of…”

  22. @Hal
    You are full of shyte. I am forthright and direct, while you persistently misquote me, then when I point that out you insert snivelling weasel words to excuse your misquotation. Shame.

    Nothing about my education is a secret; I did both mathematics and further mathematics at ‘A’ level here. Then I studied engineering at McGill. The only Piketty book that I read is his 2013 work “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010.” It is 993 pages long and I found the mathematics challenging. Is that too complex for you to comprehend?

    Despite my not being a journalist it is very clear that my command of the English language exceeds your own.

    I have no time left today for you or your your scurrilous lies, but I have no doubt that you will continue to spread them unabated.

  23. @David
    Is it really forcing ourselves to be “nice?” That sounds like it is somehow linked to the politics of “Black respectability.”

  24. @ PLT

    Where did I misquote you? Inform the blog. You said you could not understand the maths in Piketty. I said that Piketty was an economist and writes about economics. Nothing in Capitalism in the 21st Century is mathematically complex. And, further, I pointed out that A level maths was not a requirement in most UK universities to study economics. Again, I repeat, that is the only Piketty book I have read.
    As an engineer, I suggested that you would be familiar with A level maths. In simple English, nothing in Capitalism in the 21st Century should confuse you. I do not believe that claim. You said it then and I pulled you up. Is that a misquote? You are a fabricator, Peter.
    As I said before I have not read Capital is Back and know nothing about the book.
    Our long discussion was about Capitalism in the 21st Century when you made the same claim about maths and I called you out then. And do now again. You make up stories, you fabricate, you are a story teller. @PLT I won’t believe a word you say from now on.
    In the meantime, I am still waiting for the evidence of the “travesty and tragedy” of Barbados. You say things for effect. Still waiting for your opinion on a universal basic income.
    Peter you tell tales, Stop it. Grow up. Be honest. When you do not know about something, say you do not know. Cut out the shouting and tantrums.
    You are not the only one on BU who fabricates, but you have this moral confusion which is an embarrassment. Go away, you silly man.

  25. @ peterlawrencethompson June 15, 2020 10:08 AM

    It’s nice to hear that other thoughtful and neutral voices such as you also attest BLP’s excellent work since many decades.

    After the Nelson riots we should quickly follow the will of the people and make Barbados a presidential republic – with Mia Mottley as President for life.

  26. And all this from a man who claims that telling someone they should curl up and die would count as a threat in any proper jurisdiction!

    He says he ignores my posts but he cannot ignore that comment, constantly dropping remarks, even joining with racist John to score cheap points to get back at me. Suddenly the murder of another black man was no longer cause for anger and John’s gloating at the death was a matter of opinion to which he was entitled.

    Who could trust a man such as this?

    Hal Austin is a fraud. A despicable fraud. A pompous prig and a big, whiny baby who can give but can’t take.

    And he either does not know what constitutes a legal threat (not just wish but a statement of intent) or he is a liar.

  27. “aptain Hutt was a completely incompetent history teacher. When I was in his class he did not even have the self respect to own a copy of the history textbook that was assigned, but had to borrow a copy from one of the boys in his class. His pedagogical method was simply to sit at his desk and read from the borrowed book… he never contributed a single solitary word or thought of his own. He never did any class preparation that I could discern. He was a complete waste of space and money. He held the position only because he was a White man. ”

    Your description took me right back to the classroom. He did the minimum and got away with it.

  28. @John, you would 😂

    Mr Blogmaster, I’ll direct this to u as the arbiter of these blog posts…. @PLT and @Austin appear to be talking AT each other – what we Bajans call: at cross purposes – is this some elite variant of cognitive dissonance 😎🙏🏿!

    Is the book by Prof Piketty, “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010″ the SAME as “Capitalism in the 21st Century”??

    How many economics texts does any author publish in the same year!

    Interesting to see the level of personal barbs that are thrown over the interpretations of an economic text by the ‘Brit’…. SMH!

    And we wonder why so many can get so heated so quickly to lead to violent acts on the streets over seemingly innocuous disagreements!

  29. @de pedantic DribblerJune 16, 2020 9:52 AM
    “Is the book by Prof Piketty, “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010″ the SAME as “Capitalism in the 21st Century”??”
    Of course it is not the same book.

  30. @ dpD at 9:52 AM

    Well said. I too am enjoying the exchanges. It clues me in as to what a Bajan is. Strangely enough, his DNA is almost permanent . No mutation at all. And it matters not whether he is black, white or khaki colour. LOL!!.

  31. RE @de pedantic DribblerJune 16, 2020 9:52 AM
    “Is the book by Prof Piketty, “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010″ the SAME as “Capitalism in the 21st Century”??”
    Of course it is not the same book. ONLY AN ABSOLUTE MORON WOULD THINK OTHERWISE!
    This is the same idiot that first came on BU trying to contradict me and the Mayo clinic’s assertions about cervical injuries, because he thinks he knows eva ting bout eva ting as most Bajans think they do!
    This is what makes BU SO ENTERTAINING for me.
    (that statement is an example of what some here call being nasty—- but so be it!)

  32. de pedantic DribblerJune 16, 2020 9:52 AM

    Apparently the wicket has plenty of green and the bowlers are being aggressive. Bare sport.

  33. de pedantic Dribbler June 16, 2020 9:52 AM#: “Interesting to see the level of personal barbs that are thrown over the interpretations of an economic text by the ‘Brit’…. SMH!”

    “And we wonder why so many can get so heated so quickly to lead to violent acts on the streets over seemingly innocuous disagreements!”

    @ dpD

    I found your above comments very interesting because the ‘Brit’ often make similar comments to characterize BU contributors and Barbadians as being prone to violent behaviour as a result of being overly aggressive.

    On May 25, 2018, 1:38PM, it was written: “Bajan culture is the most aggressive in the Caribbean, if not the region. This can, and often does, overflow in to actual violence. Just read BU to get an idea of the AGGRESSION, even if it is over a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION.”

    I could imagine PLT being ‘chucked’ as he is told “Go away, you silly man.”


  34. June 15, 2020 4:02 PM @Peter It tracks to the cognitive dissonance we have been discussing lately. We acknowledge in our dining rooms and in the rum shops. In the glare of the public we force ourselves to be ‘nice’.

    Isn’t that the Bajan condition? Does it lend to more peaceful and amicable change over time, gradual behind the scenes disapproval and changes by ‘moral suasion’, or does it delay useful change and merely extend an untenable situation?

    If the youth are exposed internationally and educated, truly educated, change, good change, will come. That said, the whole world needs positive change, not just Barbados.

    The US for sure, wherein a total lunatic is currently in charge aided and abetted by a group of self-serving grubby men like Mcconnell.

    We have to wonder how such an ill wind blew in this lot of charlatans.

  35. ArtaxJune 16, 2020 10:58 AM

    Not sure if you are being sarcastic or mirthful at the thought of bajans being the most aggressive. Bajans are the best at a good cussing, wherein you know that they are disgusted.

    But when the heat starts, except for a few errant youth, bajans head the other way fast.

    A vexed face, pout, strung colorful words and stupses are usually the maximum chastisement.

  36. And @Vincent… whether he is a doc or a douffus! 😂😂

    @PLT, it was an innocent but real question. I tried to follow the exchanges and both of you kept on saying that you both only read one book by the prof… So I searched the titles.

    Alas, the clarity I sought was not found…there is the book u cite from 2013 and then there is “Capitalism in the 21st Century”… which is also listed as being printed in 2013!

    The prof originally publishes in French I suppose so I wondered if the English version was given a more expansive title in one of it’s republication …

    In short, can you clarify if Prof Piketty published TWO texts in 2013 or it’s that I can’t research very well and can’t find the details of these texts… because as you suggest they surely can’t be the same books… according to you and Austin.


  37. @ Crusoe

    You’re accusing me wrongfully. Please re-read my contribution.

    I simply posted a comment WRITTEN by a CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL who repeatedly suggests to this forum, Barbadians are the most aggressive in the Caribbean.

    Perhaps you should address your concerns to that individual.

  38. @de pedantic DribblerJune 16, 2020 11:12 AM
    Piketty published “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010″ in English in 2013. I have not researched if or when it was published before 2013 in French. Piketty’s “Capitalism in the 21st Century” was initially published in French in August 2013; an English translation by Arthur Goldhammer followed in April 2014.
    Hal and I have no disagreements that I know of about the substance of Piketty’s work, He simply appears to me to be keen to prove that he is the only one who has read Piketty.

  39. @ dpD
    @ PLT

    I think they are one and the same book. The difference in length has to do with the vehicle. Printed and Electronic. With the old title being longer as well.
    I am still puzzled by the mathematical challenge PLT had. The mathematics to me were simple. I interrupted my mathematics after 5th form. I did Classics in 6th form and resumed mathematics at University level as and aid to understanding and expressing economic ideas.
    The downloaded version, attested to by PLT, merits further research.

  40. Yes, Hal Austin. You think you alone are entitled to insult people? Yuh looking fuh friends? You want friends with the racist? He is the best friend for yuh black ass. Yuh think I want yuh dead and yuh running to the one who gets off on black men dying.

    And here it is that I have my black tee shirt ready to march in the hot sun in solidarity with you in hostile territory as you requested.

    €And your new friend, John?


  41. @ peterlawrencethompson June 16, 2020 10:08 AM

    A question to our anti-racism commissioner, not to relativize racism, but to better understand its complexity: If racism has been part of the national DNA in the USA and UK for many centuries, why do so many people from the South still emigrate to these countries?

    Is it the poverty in the South, the hope for a better life, a kind of Stockholm syndrome, or is it because the USA and UK are actually no longer developed countries compared to Scandinavia, Central Europe and East Asia, so that migrants immediately feel at home there? Or is it a mix of these factors?

  42. And don’t dare describe me in relation to any man!

    Dracula’s bride indeed! Better you describe poor Dracula as Donna’s husband because I would maul his ass!

  43. @Vincent, much thanks. I concur with your analysis.

    @PLT, if as you suggest these books were both published in or around 2013 it seems reasonable to presume that they are likely one and the same! I have no experience in publishing buy from a marketing perspective It would be quite counter intuitive to publish two different ‘academic texts’ by the same author in the same year…. different languages versions to get oomph and publicity momentum would be more practically and beneficial! But that’s a mere guesstimate.

    Anyhow, thanks for the clarification.

    And BTW, I also agree with @Vincent (and Hal) re your noted difficulties re the maths … 1) why would a professor make a book for mass consumption that complex mathematically WITHOUT also offering simplified analysis, and 2) there is no way an ad-Maths student from a Bajan secondary school should struggle to overcome any economics text …yes, microeconomics is a meaty maths handful but I read your remarks as mostly facetious….

    Seems you were otherwise engaged and distracted wading through the text if it took you a WHOLE year to complete…

    Really, didn’t understand why Austin got so aggravated but your remarks… but as all said: it was an exciting ping-pong affair, regardless All good!

  44. @PLT

    Here you go again trying to mislead. The substantive point was your claim about governance in Barbados being a travesty from 1627 to 2020. I asked for the evidence.
    After much prevarication, you came up with life expectancy, poverty rates, childhood malnutrition, education levels and Social mobility.
    I asked for the empirical data and you reference Dr Ramsay.
    I raised the point that we have been here before, about 18mths or two years ago, at the time you claimed how we had made progress between 1951 and 1961 (I am sure I have the right dates). Again, I asked for proof.
    Somehow we got on to talking about Piketty’s book, Capitalism in the 21st Century, which you claimed to have read. When pressed you said you read it online and found the maths difficult. Again I questioned your claim. I said, as I said yesterday, there were comprehensive tables but no complex maths.
    I walked away from the conversation having convinced myself that you were fibbing. Yesterday you claimed you were talking about another Piketty book. I pointed out on numerous occasion I had only read one Piketty book Capitalism in the 21st Century.
    I also raised the point that recently you made another bold claim about a universal basic income. I asked then, and again yesterday, for justification for this position; I was ignored on both occasions.
    In all the to-ing and fro-ing I still have not had any empirical data about the “travesty and tragedy” of governance in Barbados between 1627 and 2020.
    As expected, that substantive fact has been ignored while we debate who has read what book. To be clear, you have said nothing to convince me you are familiar with Piketty’s works.
    But, I am still waiting to see the evidence supporting your bold claim about Barbados. You may be right, you may be wrong, but where is the evidence.
    I know you said this is your opinion, but that came too late and seems to me as an excuse. Bring the evidence.

  45. @ Pedantic

    I was not ‘aggravated’ about anything. On BU most of us do not know each other personally. For the most part we have to accept as truth statements made, especially by people who identify themselves. It is that veracity that is important, otherwise BU is just for entertainment.
    Where there is clear evidence that a person is being economical with the actualite, then s/he should be called out. That is all. It is a matter of trust.

  46. @ Hal Austin at 1: 24 PM

    I think you are mashing the crease wrt PLT. He is not on trial on BU. It is a place for expressing opinions. I think you may be described as an Internet Bully. It is time to move on. You have made whatever point you intended to make.

  47. @de pedantic Dribbler June 16, 2020 1:11 PM
    @Vincent Codrington June 16, 2020 12:03 PM
    Sadly, I was not being facetious. Here is a link to a page of “Capital is Back: Wealth-Income Ratios in Rich Countries 1700-2010″ that is typical of the ones that I found tedious to slog through rather than just gloss over.
    I can share the entire book by email if you want, but I’m not going to post the whole thing online because I’ve violated his copyright enough already.

  48. @ PLT at 2:00PM
    Your credibility with me is not in question.There is no need to email the “book” nor the Technical Appendix. I have my own copy of the final, finished,translated version of the book . It is almost 600 pages,excluding the technical appendices. I suspect that what you uploaded is in the technical appendix. The main narrative is clear with the algebra extended in most cases to three lines.
    AND you are quite right. You would be violating his copyright. I am too old to be an accomplice.

  49. John’s favourite person is lying again. Claims Obama never tried to tackle police misconduct. But we know Obama had studies done, recommendations made and consent decrees signed and Trump threw them out and encouraged further brutality to the roars of hundreds of bad apples.

  50. Reasons like a white supremacist.

    Talks down to blacks like a white supremacist.

    Twists history like a white supremacist.

    It’s a white supremacist.

    Too bad you ain’t white.

    PS. Don’t need to be married to Dracula. I can do bad all by myself. I am worse than Dracula AND his bride put together.

  51. And @Donna that’s the very annoying part of these uprisings: the consent decrees.

    The Obama admin had over 20 investigations of police dept ‘over’-use of force and at least a dozen supervised consent decrees with some of the troubled depts now under duress…this SUPPOSED law and order admin completely rescinded and overturned EVERY one of those decrees rather than PRACTICALLY addressing the major issues which caused them…

    … That is not Law n Order… that is Lawlessness! And now they offer some simple fixes about ‘best practices’ with a publicity stunt called an executive order!

    If this admin is reelected then clearly Americans want anarchy, lawlessness and a lack of reasoned continuity of governance…

  52. Not that difficult.
    It is a combination of a recurrence relation and a geometric series. (a+ar+ar2+ar3 …)
    Just read how sum a geometric series and then there is some basic moving around of terms.
    Made ugly just to scare ya.

  53. Nothing scares a weak man more than a strong woman.
    if they weren’t anonymous/distant they would all be quiet.
    Yo go girl.

  54. (Quote):
    After much prevarication, you came up with life expectancy, poverty rates, childhood malnutrition, education levels and Social mobility.
    I asked for the empirical data and you reference Dr Ramsay. (Unquote).

    @PLT: Stand your ground. Don’t be ‘bullied’ by the ‘retired journalist’.

    There is ample evidence documented in the Moyne Commission’s report on the social and economic ‘living’ conditions of the black masses (especially children) in Barbados in the pre-war period to support your argument(s).

    Pre-war Barbados had one of the highest incidences of malnutrition and mortality among children compared to other children in the British colonies.

  55. Peter Lawrence Thompson is a man, he too identifies himself and stands by what he believes … even though at times he acts like Peter Pan.

    Sometimes big men do that.

    Point is, he is no woman!!

  56. Donna is a woman. She identifies herself and stands by what she believes. You name John and I name Donna. I identified myself in the same way you did. Those who know me personally have no trouble identifying me. Though I am better looking than Hal and from all accounts you, I never liked being photographed.

    Where’s your photograph?

    You does break de camera???

  57. DonnaJune 16, 2020 7:44 PM

    Never wanted to be a man. Never even thought of it. Just as I never wanted to be white.



    None of us get to choose!!

    Besides, it doesn’t matter.

  58. Hal makes a good point as blacks don’t read books or not all the way through

    It’s strange how Bajans are obsessed with school qualifications
    In the west whites don’t need them only minorities do and will still struggle to get employment from the whites
    In USA Police try to capture every black male in the system before they are adults
    If you are black and do not have a record you must be a liar

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