The Rise And Fall of Brexit

Prime Minister Theresa May suffered an embarrassing defeat to her BREXIT package in parliament yesterday and will likely face a no Confidence motion later today. If she survives the no confidence motion she will have 70 days before the default clause kicks in to boot the UK from the EU.

What are her options? There is the obvious which is to ask for a delay. Another referendum seems silly. What is ominous for the Tories is that the business sector has separated itself from government’s position.

Across the globe there is a common trend; chaos – the inability of the political class to form partnerships, build coalitions to practice conflict resolutions to arrive at compromise positions.

David, blogmaster


Submitted by Pachamama

It would require a Water Diviner, a top Senegalese Marabout, an Obeah woman from Benin and a Bajan Bushman, acting in unison, for Theresa Mary May to avoid her fate after the Brexit Deal is voted-down, on Tuesday, in the House of ‘Commons’.

We witnessed firsthand, on June 23, 2016, the British peoples in their majority voting to leave the European Union (EU) – approximately 52% to 48%. The referendum, promised by David Cameron, was a response to the overarching and historic dictatorial tendencies emanating from Brussels but also represented a reassertion of Whiteness and innate neo-fascist tendencies. It has now set a series of processes in place the enormity of which are having the unforeseen consequences few could have imagined.

And, we must admit, that the politics are very difficult on all sides. The main actors are the European Union (EU), the Conservative Party and their coalition partner, (the DUP) and the main opposition Labour Party.

May is facing all manner of rebellion within her ranks. The Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) a far-right, terrorist fringe has called for her resignation. In addition, she faces nay-votes from up to 100 of her own conservative colleagues. These include a number of pretenders to the primeministership – Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, el al.

Not even the last-minute suggestion of a second referendum as part of her proposals to parliament is likely to be sufficient to galvanize enough support from a difficult coalition of conservatives, the DUP, the Blairist labour MPs, and others, to save May’s Brexit Deal. These suggest a most likely ‘Brexit without a deal’, given the calendar and assuming all other political forces ‘remain’ equal, no pun intended.

The man who could be British prime minister by Christmas, Jeremy Corbyn, also has long-running discord within the ranks of the Labour Party with Tony Blair loyalists and ‘EU remainers’ like Chuka Umunna continuing to provide Corbyn with all manner of contrived hurdles include the accusation that Corbyn was an anti-Semite. What a canard!

The EU for its part faces growing geopolitical and internal crises which together may suggest its beginning of the end. However, its outward determination presents a stalwartness aimed at keeping the troops (other EU countries) in line by shooting a general, the UK, in a public place. They, the EU, are unyielding. Suggesting that no other Brexit deal than that already negotiated with Theresa May will be possible after a no-vote in the ‘Commons’, as a further constraint to popular perceptions about sovereignty.

Of course, the sub-plots are the issues relating to Scotland, the re-unification of Ireland, the rekindling of relationships with former colonial possessions, international trading arrangements with major countries etc. All of these are casting uncertainty about the future for both ‘little’ and ‘big’ England. Even in May’s Brexit Deal issues pertaining to the Customs Union, borders, nationality and others ‘remain’ unclear.

We present three (3) possible scenarios that are likely to end this crisis in the short term, though politics pretends to be about making the impossible, possible, some say. These are all predicated on the assumption that Theresa May will be defeated in the House of ‘Commons’ tomorrow.

First, that a general election will be called and that Labour will win but that Corbyn would continue to find Brexiting a difficult proposition. This explains his well-known tactic of neither fully supporting nor fully opposing Brexit in principle.

Second, that the coalition led by May will force her resignation and that one of the pretenders mentioned earlier will assume its leadership. In these circumstances, we see no overt determination to leave the EU if staying remains slightest possibility. This will be a win for Brussels.

Third, and this is the most unlikely scenario, that a radical transplantation occurs in British politics. With this, we ‘may’ see Blairist forces within Labour join with EU ‘remainers’ in the Conservative Party and others to form a new ruling bloc.

As the political undertakers plane the wood for May’s coffin the leading pallbearers, on all sides, are marshalling their forces to be the first at body. Still, it remains uncertain who will get to control the carcass, and what it will mean to be British for the peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic.

507 comments

  • Miller,

    Different colours do have different smells, you know. So by their smells I shall know them.

    Like

  • @ Pacha
    Good call..
    There is something suspiciously mystical about Donna….

    Like

  • Pacha,

    I also have lightning reflexes. LOL.

    Like

  • Bushie,

    Mystical? Regular folks just call me mad as……….! LOL. But I love it. It means I am in good company.

    Like

  • Binga-bonga-binga

    Greetings people of Barbados

    Whap’n Bap’n Wa Do Dem Wha’happen

    Calling from London Town

    It’s cold outside I would say

    this thread seems to have got mixed up with the Trump collusion thread postings

    sometimes coffee sometimes tea

    Like

  • Here is a real flesh and blood Russian spy Mueller completely missed … and she is willing to make a plea deal!!

    http://www.msn.com/en-xl/northamerica/northamerica-top-stories/russian-in-us-spy-case-pleads-guilty/ar-BBQV5n9?li=BBKxOeO&ocid=spartandhp

    Like

  • Poor John is playing I wish.

    Like

  • this one for Trumpie – minus the nappy hair and no present for Christmas part.

    Like

  • Oh oh! Let’s try that again.

    Like

  • Poor Trumpie conspiracy theorists.

    Like

  • “It was during this period of time under Mueller’s leadership at the FBI that Mueller first partnered with DOJ’s Andrew Weissman. Weissman had promulgated the practice of intimidating witnesses and soliciting false testimony, hiding evidence and procuring high-profile convictions, which were later overturned on appeal, but not before lives were ruined and in some cases lost. When his brutal and dishonest practices had been focused on racketeers and crime lords, no one seemed to care about his tactics.”

    http://mustreadalaska.com/mueller-and-the-political-assassination-of-ted-stevens/

    “The heart of the DOJ/FBI prosecution was the allegation that Stevens had failed to disclose over $250,000 worth of work on his Girdwood “chalet”. It was $250,000 of work ostensibly done by his friend Bill Allen’s company, VECO, in addition to the $180,000 which Stevens had paid for the so-called improvements.”

    Where did we hear VECO’s name before?

    Like

  • “This true legal thriller debunks everything the media and the government told us about the Department of Justice’s destruction and prosecution of the venerable accounting firm Arthur Andersen, Merrill Lynch executives who did one business transaction with Enron, Alaska Senator Ted Steven’s, and more. The common thread through it all is a cabal of narcissistic federal prosecutors who broke all the rules and rose to great power. Still in the news today―Robert Mueller s “pitbull” Andrew Weissmann and other members of Obama’s inner circle―are wreaking havoc on our Republic. This is the book that began exposing “the Deep State.”
    (Sidney Powell)”

    Haven’t read it but the book is highly recommended

    Like

  • Oh oh,

    That’s weird,

    Here’s what it should be…….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcdmq07u2T8

    Like

  • “Robert Mueller has operated for 19 months as a law unto himself, reminding us of the awesome and destructive powers of special counsels. About the only possible check on Mr. Mueller is a judge who is wise to the tricks of prosecutors and investigators. Good news: That’s what we got this week.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/checking-robert-mueller-11544745831

    Like

  • JOHN
    SEE IF THIS VIDEO MAKES SENSE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO EVENTS IN EUROPE

    Like

  • this is a very interesting utube that I found

    Like

  • Georgie Porgie

    Pardon my intrusiveness it may seems rather impertinent, but whether or not the vedio makes any sense to John it doesn’t really matter … what matters most my friend is that you as will as John are filled and sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption.
    Brother, it is worth noting that your academic approach to Scripture does little if not anything for your soul … if God hasn’t put His Spirit in your mortal body, and once you have received His Spirit Mr. Schalor, it never leaves you until the Day of Redemption though the proclivity, predisposition, and propensity for sin still remains with you … if you neglect or grieve the Spirit …nonetheless it is your ticket to heaven Sir and all the other stuff though of interest is still not Important as God’s anointing…

    Like

  • Have you not heard of the Pyramid Text, The Papyrus of Ani, The Book of the Going Forth By Night And the Coming Forth By Day (sic), The Principles of Ma’at etc

    All these were the basis from which your stinking bible was copied. And were provably documented tens of thousands of years before your fiction of a bible was ever conceived. Arguably, these the thinking of the ancients, existed even before your highly favoured white people were even on earth.

    These, the ancients, are the peoples who created the foundations of all modern knowledge, including medicine. They even gave your masters a God consciousness. Of course, it was duly misused as only the real Devil could have done.

    You are a worshiper at the Synagogue of Satan and must therefore be destroyed!

    As a pseudo scientist you should at least seek independent confirmation of such specious claims made by the master of liars, in a book replete with lies from the beginning to the end.

    Like

  • Pachamama

    You and others of your making could endeavour to employ human reasoning to justify your claim that the Bible is a fictional work, but I know with all my heart, mind and soul, that God lives, and His presence is made evident in heart and minds of those that are called to His purpose.
    Beyond that I need not try to justify His existence to those persons who haven’t been touched by the devine hands of God … because their lack of understanding seems logical to me and others like me … because we are well aware of the fact that we are now living in the of the days of Noah …

    Like

  • Lexicon

    The bible itself proves the fiction it has always been. And everything about it is provably false. You raised a fictional character called Noah. He never existed.

    What we know for certainty, from many kinds of scientific proofs, is that stories about a flood existed for tens of thousands of years before that man, Noah, was supposed to have lived.

    Like

  • Georgie Porgie

    This ideological struggle centers on the concepts of realism and idealism or subjectivism … of which the practical man is incapable of understanding … because his world is object based, so it is difficult for him to process anything that is subjective because he hasn’t been equipped with the Spirit of the living God which moves the believer from object to the subjective or the Spiritual world…

    Like

  • Pach

    Question: do you know whether or not there is an real and objective world outsidey ourself? Since everything that is take in by our senses is processed by the mind and returned to us as reality…

    Like

  • Pach

    God is real and two reason standout as to why I know He is real:

    (1) He gave me His Spirit three-decades ago which still remains with me to this day…

    (2) God showed me a vision one morning at work …while I was laying in my car … and He took me to the heavens …and when He took me there … He took from me my sense of gravity …but I still retained my consciousness and awareness as I looked from above … I felt at One with the universe …meaning I could not feel my feet, hands nor my body … but my consciousness was intacted… and let me tell you … I felt a transquility and peace which was indescribable … so I confident of His existence …

    Like

  • Everybody needs checks. Mueller should have checks. But the judge will also be checked. But the biggest check is going to be on that runaway train of corruption – Tweetie Bird.

    Like

  • I started looking at Noah more closely recently and realized the Bible says he was perfect in his generations.

    His genealogy was without blemish.

    Genesis 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

    The chapter begins

    6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Isn’t the Bible telling us about genetics and DNA long before mankind was supposed to know about these concepts?

    The crossings of the sons of God with human kind, the daughters of man, produced offspring that were not human.

    Noah was perfect in his generations so he was human, traceable to Adam.

    Besides being perfect in his generations he was also a just man and walked with God.

    God decided to destroy all life and start from fresh.

    He chose Noah and his offspring to restart the human race.

    All of Noah’s male ancestors were dead at the flood.

    He probably had plenty cousins but God destroyed them all.

    I guess they did not meet all three requirements which Noah did,

    Like

  • RE The crossings of the sons of God with human kind, the daughters of man, produced offspring that were not human.
    WHERE DOES THE TEXT SAY THAT they were not human. SIR?

    GENESIS CHAPTER 4 DESCRIBES THE UNGODLY DESCENDANTS OF CAIN
    GENESIS CHAPTER 5 DESCRIBES THE GODLY DESCENDANTS OF SETH
    GENESIS CHAPTER 6 DESCRIBES THE INTERMINGLING OF THESE TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE

    WHEN HUMANS BREED WITH OTHER HUMANS THEY PRODUCE HUMANS

    re Isn’t the Bible telling us about genetics and DNA long before mankind was supposed to know about these concepts?

    YES INDEED! IT DOES SO IN GENESIS CHAPTER ONE!

    NOTE THE PHRASE “AFTER ITS KIND”. SEVERAL TIMES IN
    THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE EVOLUTIONISTS CANT PRODUCE INTERMEDIATE FORMS

    RE All of Noah’s male ancestors were dead at the flood.
    NOT SURE IF YOU MEAN MALE ANCESTORS OR MALE RELATIVES
    BUT READ THE TEXT AGAIN AND SEE HOW MANY MALES ENTERED AND EXITED THE ARK

    Like

  • RE Genesis 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
    9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

    I started looking at Noah more closely recently and realized the Bible says he was perfect in his generations.

    His genealogy was without blemish.
    READ CHAPTER 5 AND THE OTHER CHAPTERS WITH GENEALOGIES WHERE HE IS MENTIONED AND YOU WILL NOTICE THAT ONE OF HIS ANCESTORS WAS ENOCH MENTIONED IN GENESIS 5 AND HEBREWS

    ENOCH WAS THE FIRST MAN OF TWO TO BE TRANSLATED WITHOUT EXPERIENCING DEATH. THE OTHER WAS ELIJAH

    THESE TWO MEN ARE PICTURES OR TYPES OF THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH
    CF I THESE 4:14-18 & 1 COR 15:51-55

    THESE TWO MEN WERE RAPTURED OR SNATCHED AWAY

    Like

  • THIS IS VERY INTERESTING

    Like

  • @Pacha

    The EU is refusing to change the Brexit deal? Where does it leave May?

    Like

  • @Pacha

    The yellow vest movement is waning?

    Like

  • It leaves May between the devil and the deep blue sea. A choice between a no-deal and an unacceptable current for the Commons.

    Maybe she’ll punt and use the court ruling to delay indefinitely.

    Like

  • Unacceptable current deal

    Like

  • David

    Movements don’t always evolve on a straight-upward projection.

    Like any organism, they may wane many times before dying out or winning

    What is also happening is the infiltration of Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Vests) by all manner of intelligence agencies and political currents not sharing the same goals.

    We’ve been here before with Occupy Wall Street and the Association of Concerned Policyholders of BMLAS.

    Like

  • GP

    Matthew 24:37-39 King James Version (KJV)
    37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    What was it like in the days of Noah?

    Is Jesus simply saying that His coming will be sudden like the flood ….

    …. or like the destruction of Sodom

    Luke 17:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
    28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

    … or is Jesus saying that the characteristics of the times of Noah would prevail?

    Came across Chuck Missler and his opinions on Noah and end times.

    Like

  • JOhn

    What was it like in the days of Noah?
    MUCH AS IT IS TODAY

    Is Jesus simply saying that His coming will be sudden like the flood ….
    YES SIR. several scriptures teach this

    IT WILL BE AT A TIME WHEN LIFE IS GOING ON AS USUAL
    PEOPLE WILL BE eating, drink, engaging in ordinary commerce, planting and building
    certainly the characteristics of the times of Noah would prevail at that time as noted above

    There will be no warning for the rapture (Parousia)…….but there will be signs for his second coming proper (the EPIPHANAEA )

    Like

  • John

    It doesn’t matter when Jesus burst through the clouds with the shout of the archangel … what matters most Sir is that you are sealed until that Day of Redemption…
    a lot of Christian believers do not understand that nothing else matters most in their Christian walk than the Spirit of God living with them … and without that Spirit living within there is no hope … no matter how good you can quote Scripture …no matter how much money you put in offering plate … or how often you attend Church without the Spirit of God dwelling within you there is no hope of eternal life… remember the Bible also tell us that all our goodness are filthy rags in the sight of God…

    Like

  • John

    The one thing atheism, secular -humanism, existentialism, naturalism, evolution, and philosophy can not do is to minister to the needs of the human soul …. only the word of God can touch the inner part of the human soul…

    Like

  • Go Lexicon…
    …and without the spirit of God within, it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce the kind of fruit that are indicative of that spirit.
    LOVE …and a community Centric predisposition don’t come naturally….
    Hate ..and albino centricity does….

    What a thing nuh…!!!

    Like

  • Bushie

    Yes brother, Charity is the manifestation of the anointing in the life of the believer … because Bible says if you have it all and have not charity you have nothing …

    Like

  • @ Lexicon
    Bushie …..Yes brother, Charity is the manifestation of the anointing in…
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Take it easy with the ‘brother’ thing Lexi….
    .. cause anytime that the whacker is required for your donkey –
    don’t even THINK about playing the nepotism card…

    Liked by 1 person

  • Lexicon,

    That is more than twice a day. You are now better than the proverbial stopped clock. .

    Like

  • Differing views.

    Like

  • JOHN
    HAD THIS FILE FOR 2O YEARS NOW BUT IT IS STILL ON POINT

    50 Evidences for the Pre-Trib Rapture

    Historical Doctrine of Imminency 1. The early church believed in the imminency of the Lord’s return. While it can be debated which church father said what, there is a consistency in the early church on imminency which is essential to the pre-trib position and in opposition to some other positions.

    The Pre-trib position is the ONLY one which truly teaches imminency.
    The fact that there is a greater development of the doctrine in recent centuries does not preclude it from the early centuries. In the very early years of the church you see the development of great fundamentals doctrines of Trinity, Deity, God-man, canon of Scripture, etc. Following those early church councils is a time of decline in the corporate church into great apostasy. The teaching of that time are built on many of the heresies of Augustine. When the Reformation comes, there is a period of reestablishing the foundational doctrines of salvation. Now, in these last days there is both and ability and a need in the church to better understand the doctrines of eschatology and the Spirit is continuing His ministry of guiding the church in all truth.
    The exhortation to be comforted by the “coming of the Lord” (1Thes 4:18) is valid only in the context of the pre-trib view. It could even be a fearsome thing in a post-trib view.
    We are exhorted to look for the “Glorious Appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (Titus 2:13) If there are any prophetic events (ie: tribulation) to come first, then this passage is nonsensical.
    Again, we are to “purify ourselves” in view of his coming.(1 John 3:2-3) If his coming is not imminent then the passage is meaningless.
    The church told only to look for the Coming of Christ. It is Israel and the tribulation saints that are told to look for signs.

    (Those who do not understand the nature of the church as unique in the program of God will continually be confused about the nature of His coming for the church.)

    Nature of the Church 8. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any context dealing with the second coming of Christ at the end of the Tribulation.

    The church is “not appointed to wrath” (Rom 5:9; 1 Thes 1:9-10) The church cannot enter into the “great day of their wrath.”
    The Church will not be “overtaken by the Day of the Lord.” (1 Thes 5:1-9) (Day of the Lord is another term for the great tribulation.)
    The church will be “kept from the hour of testing that shall come upon all the world.” (Rev. 3:10)
    The believer will escape the tribulation (Luke 21:36).
    It is in the character of God to deliver His own from the greatest times of trial. (Lot, Rahab. Israel, Noah,etc)
    It is clear that there is a time interval between the translation of the church and the Return of Christ. (John 14:3)
    Only the pre-trib position does not divide the Body of Christ on a works principle as does partial rapture does so clearly and others to a lesser extent. It becomes a climatic finale to the grand plan of salvation by grace alone.
    The Scriptures are adamant that the church is undivided. In this age the church is divided by the continuing old nature in the believers. When we are glorified at the coming of Christ, the church is no more divided.
    The godly remnant of the tribulation has the attributes seen in OT Israel and not the church. The church is not present in the prophecies of Revelation.
    The pre-trib view, unlike the post-trib view does not confuse terms like elect and saints which apply to believers of all ages , as opposed to terms like church and in Christ, which apply only to those who are the body of Christ in this age.

                              The Work of the Holy Spirit 
    

    The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer of evil in the world. He cannot be taken out as prophesied unless the church which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit is taken out.
    The Holy Spirit will be taken out before the “lawless one” is revealed. That lawless one will certainly be revealed in the tribulation. In fact, the tribulation begins with the signing of the covenant between that lawless one and Israel. That act will reveal him.
    The “falling away” in 2 Thes 2:3 would better be understood in its context as “the departure.” This is a reference to the departure of the Holy Spirit as He indwells the church.
    The work of the Holy Spirit making the church like Christ where they submit to death and persecution, whereas the OT saints (see many of the Psalms) and the tribulations saints cry out for vengeance (Rev 6:10)

    The Hermeneutical Argument
    23. Only the pre-trib view allows for a truely literal interpretation in all of the OT & NT passages regarding the great tribulation.

    Only the pre-trib position clearly distinguishes the church and Israel and God’s dealing with each. The Necessity of an Interval of Time between the Rapture and the Second Coming
    All believers must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10). This event is never mentioned in the account of events surrounding the second coming.
    The “four and twenty elders” in rev 4:1-5:14 are representative of the church. Therefore it is necessary that the church, undivided, be brought to glory before those events of the tribulation.
    There is clearly a coming of Christ for his bride before the second coming to earth. Rev 19:7-10.
    Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary activities. These specifically include farming, construction, and giving birth. (Is 65:20-25).
    The Judgment of the Gentile nations following the second coming (Mat 25:31-46) indicates that both the saved and the lost are in a natural body which would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the second coming.
    If the translation took place at the same time as the second coming, there would be no need to separating the sheep from the goats at the subsequent judgment. The act of the translation would be the separation.
    The Judgment of Israel (Ez 20:34-38) occurs after the second coming and requires a regathered Israel. Again, the separation of the saved and the lost would be unnecessary if all the saved had previously been separated by a translation at the second coming.

                Differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming. 
    

    At the Rapture, the church meets Christ in the air. At the second coming, Christ returns to the Mt of Olives.

    At the time of the Rapture, the Mt of Olives is unchanged. At the second coming it is divided forming a valley east of Jerusalem.
    At the time of the rapture, saints are translated. No saints are translated at the time of the second coming.
    At the time of the rapture, the world is no judge for sin, but descends deeper into sin. At the second coming, the world is Judged by the King of kings.
    The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance from the day of wrath, whereas the coming of Christ is a deliverance for those who have suffered under severe tribulation.
    The rapture is immanent whereas there are specific signs which precede the second coming.
    The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the NT. The second coming with the events surrounding it is prominent in both OT and NT.
    The rapture is only for the saved, while the tribulation and second coming deals with the entire world.
    No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the rapture. Many signs must be fulfilled before the second coming of Christ.
    No passage in either OT or NT deals with the resurrection of the saints at the second coming nor mentions the translation of living saints at that same time.

    The Nature of the Tribulation 42. Only the pre-trib view maintains the distinction between the “great tribulation” and the tribulations in general which we all experience.

    The great tribulation is properly understood in the pre-trib view as a preparation for the restoration of Israel. (Deut 4:29-30. Jer 30:4-11, Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:1-2)
    Not one single passage in the OT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.
    Not one single passage in the NT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.
    In contrast to mid trib or pre-wrath views, the pre-trib view offers an adequate explanation for the beginning of the great tribulation in Rev 6. These others are clearly refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the great tribulation begins long before the 7th trumpet of Rev 11.
    There is no proper groundwork provided that the 7th trumpet of Rev is the last trumpet of 1 Cor 15. It is accepted only on the basis of assumption. The pre-trib view maintains the proper distinction between the prophetic trumpets of the church and the trumpets of the tribulation.
    The Unity of Daniel’s 70th week is maintained by the pre-trib view. By contrast, the mid-trib view destroys the unity and confuses the program for Israel and the church. The post trib view usually denies the clear teaching of the 70th weeks by subverting it into some form or another of allegory.
    The gathering of saints after the tribulation is done by angels whereas the gathering of the church is done by “The Lord Himself.” 50. Rev 22:17-20 And the Spirit and the Bride say come. And he that heareth, let him say come He who testifieth of these things saith Yea, I come quickly, AMEN. COME LORD JESUS.

    Like

  • JOHN
    THESE ARE THE NOTES OF A YOUNGSTER AT OUR ASSEMBLY THIS SUMMER ON THIS TOPIC
    pre-tribulation rapture of the church –
    I believe that the coming of the Lord to take His own to heaven is going to precede the tribulation or in other words the rapture occurs before the tribulation.

    There are some people who believe that rapture is after the tribulation – they are called – The Post tribulation rapturist.
    There are some who believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation – they are called the Mid-tribulation rapturist –
    but I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture of the church or in other words the church will be taken up before the tribulation and I trust you agree with me on that and if not, that is fine with me.

    John chapter 14

    1 – Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

    2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    1 Corinthians 15

    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
    57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    1 Thessalonians 4
    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (i.e. shall not precede or go before) them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Now I want to make it very clear that – – the Second coming of our blessed Lord – is divided into two parts, or two stages or two phases.
    The first phase is called the Rapture – coming of the Lord in the air. (2) That is what we are going to look at – God willing this morning –
    the second stage is the Coming of the Lord – to the earth known as the revelation of the Lord Jesus, the unveiling of Christ, the appearing in glory –
    The Rapture – the first phase – the Lord – coming in the air –
    the second phase – when the Lord’s feet shall touch the mount of Olives, coming to the earth Zec 14:1-4.
    At the Rapture – He will be unseen by the world. Invisible.
    At His Revelation i.e. The second phase – He will be visible and public. “every eye shall see Him”. Rev 1.
    At the Rapture He will come for His saints as their Lord;
    At the Revelation He will come with His saints as the Son of Man to stamp His authority on the world.
    His return to earth to set up His kingdom to rule in power and great glory.

    So, the Sequence is something like this – Right now we are in the Day of Grace – or in other words Man’s day – God is allowing man to have his ways –
    Then comes the day of Christ – Rapture –
    The Day of Christ – begins at Rapture,
    In other words, a time of great anticipation, a time of joy, a time of blessing and rewards.
    While all this happens in heaven
    Down on earth it will be known as the Day of the Lord – The Day of Judgment, a day of darkness and gloom, a terrible day, a day of vengeance, a day of Wrath or in other words known as tribulation,
    7 years of tribulation, the day of the Lord includes the millennium.
    Then comes The Day of God – it begins as the day of the Lord ends – New Heaven and new Earth, new Jerusalem, eternal state and so on. There are so many other things in between. I will leave it there.
    To give an example from the scripture concerning the two stages –
    His advent title – what is that? – He is the Bright and Morning Star. This has to do with the church, coming for the bride.
    Now if you look at the title of Christ in the O.T – what is that – the last page of the O.T – Malachi chapter 4:2 – The Sun of Righteousness.
    The Bright and Morning star for the Church – The Sun of Righteousness with healings in His wings for the people of God –
    (the hope of Israel is the Sun of Righteousness. He will turn Israel’s dark night into day)
    Now the question is – which comes first – The Bright and Morning Star – The first phase.
    first, He comes to rapture the church as the Bright and Morning Star and then there will be a gap of 7 years or more – later He is coming as the Sun of Righteousness with healing in His wings for the nation of Israel.
    So, there is two aspects or two stages – first part of the second coming is known as the rapture and that is what we are going to look at this morning – God willing.
    Now, – The word rapture doesn’t occur in our bible.
    That doesn’t mean that rapture won’t occur – because it is not actually in the bible,
    you see there are number of words that we use quite regularly use about the things of God that aren’t found in our bible.
    For e.g.: incarnation.
    Most of us are aware – for instance the word millennium isn’t found in the bible
    Then – we don’t read the word Trinity in the bible but there is no doubt that the truth of trinity is true, that God is in three persons – Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
    That is – absolutely true, So – it is with the rapture.
    The word rapture comes from Latin verb rapto.
    The dictionary definition of the word rapture is an ecstasy (or passion) a carrying off,
    that is exactly what is going to happen, when the Lord comes to take us to be with Himself – we read about that in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 –
    we who are alive and remain shall be caught up – that is the word rapture, snatched away, carrying off.
    Examples of rapture in the O.T

    we read in the bible of other raptures – for example: there was a man called Enoch, he was a man who walked with God,
    The N.T tells us he was translated – that he was carried across – he was raptured into the presence of God.

    The second one that we see in the O.T is Elijah – and we are told in 2 kings that he was taken up – he was carried up – he went up.
    Elijah was taken up in heaven as well. He was raptured.
    When we come to the N.T we see the Lord Himself – we are told in the end of gospels and in the beginning of Acts of the Apostle that He was taken up – He went up, He was carried up, He was received up into heaven – and so on – 7 times.
    Then we see Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians – that he tells us about the great experience that he had – that he was caught up to the third heaven.
    He wasn’t caught up bodily – he was caught up in spirit, he was raptured into heaven – not a bodily rapture but it was a spiritual rapture.
    He was raptured into heaven in spirit.
    Then – John tells us that he heard a voice from heaven in revelation chapter 4 – A door was opened in heaven – and the voice said – come up hither and john was caught up in spirit and he saw what was in heaven
    and what a wonderful vision he got of heaven – that he tells us all about it in revelation 4 and 5, he too was raptured in spirit –
    But our rapture is going to be unique in a sense that it will be a massive evacuation, – that is going to be a wonderful day,
    – Joseph R Kipling – this is what he says –
    “I keep six honest serving men (they taught me all i knew); Theirs names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who.” We will try to ask some of his questions – unquote.

    Number one – when is it going to take place? – When is the rapture going to take place?
    When is it going to happen? – there are many guesses about rapture – some are supposed to be intelligent but most of them are not.

    You see the bible doesn’t tell us – when it is going to take place, in fact the Lord Jesus tells us about the return to earth that – no body, no man – except the Father knows when that is going to take place.
    So, the answer is – we do not know.

    My dearly beloved it is wrong for us to put dates for His coming, but we can say that the Lord’s coming is imminent
    that doesn’t mean to say – that it is immediate – but it is imminent – it means – it can happen at any moment, in other words –

    He could come as we are speaking –
    If He were to come when we are gathered here and we all are caught up to meet the Lord in the air – how wonderful that would be.

    He might not come tomorrow, He might not come this year, He might not come next year – but His coming is imminent. It would happen anytime. It could happen at any moment.
    That is what imminent means.

    I do not believe there is any prophecy to be fulfilled before the rapture – before the Lord comes.
    I believe we could be taken at any moment. So, The Rapture is imminent. It could happen any moment, it will be unannounced, no signs will be given.

    Now – The second question to be asked is –
    Who are going to be involved at the rapture?
    The persons concerned – we discover as we read in 1 Thessalonians 4 that there are 3 persons or groups of persons who are going to be involved –
    First – The Lord Himself – notice in verse 16 of 1 Thessalonians 4 – For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven – The Lord Himself –
    He is the supreme person, He is the central person,
    in fact, He is central person of all the events of the coming day and He certainly is the central person in connection with the rapture.
    If He is not coming – there will be no rapture –
    He Himself promised that – you remember in the upper room – John 14
    In the eve of His suffering to His disciples – He said – if I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself
    He is going to come Himself, and we are going to meet the Lord in the air – what a glory that is going to be for us all to see Him face to face and be forever in His presence.
    But there are other persons who are going to be involved –
    you notice in verse 16 – the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout and at the end of the verse we are told – the dead in Christ shall rise .
    There is a second group of persons that are going to be involved in the rapture.
    There are those who have died in Christ – well – who are they?
    Well – they include all the saints or believers of this age in which we live
    – from the time of the very first Christian until the time of the rapture- all who have trusted in Christ as their personal Savior, they are going to be there.

    All the friends and loved ones that we have committed to the soil in the days gone by
    – if they have trusted in the Lord Jesus and if they are in Christ, they are going to be there.

    I want you to notice a word that occurs 3 times in the K.J.V – verse 13, 14, 15 – of 1 Thess 4.
    You see the bible tells us they are sleeping.
    And those who have trusted in Lord Jesus – we can say – they are sleeping –
    until that moment – when they are awake when the Lord Jesus comes to take them with us to be forever to be with Himself.
    They are at the moment – asleep.
    You remember our Lord used that expression when He spoke about Lazarus. (Jn11:11)
    He said “our friend Lazarus sleepth”, and Thomas said well Lord – if he sleeps he shall do well and off course he did well because the Lord went to wake him up out of sleep.
    He really wasn’t dead as we think of it, but the Lord said that was a temporary situation and the same is true of all saints down thru the centuries – since the first believers in Christ died.
    They are asleep thru Jesus –
    and Lord is going to come and raise their bodies and take them with us to be with Himself – that applies to every believer.

    Now –
    Now you are going to ask me another question as we think of this –
    What about the O.T saints?
    – Are they going to be included in the rapture – I believe the O.T saints are included among those who are the dead in Christ.
    I believe they are Christ – at His coming, they are going to be included in the rapture.

    why do you believe that the O.T saints are going to be included – there are many reason –
    let me give you one reason –
    John the Baptist spoke about the Lord Jesus Christ and he spoke about himself in relation to the Lord Jesus.
    John 3:29 – He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, who standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

    – Now the friend of the Bridegroom is usually at the wedding.
    In all wedding – there is not only the bride and the Bridegroom – there is also the friend of the bridegroom, sometimes we call him the best man. John is the friend of the Bridegroom,
    Obviously, he is going to be at the wedding and I believe John was speaking representatively, he was one of the last of those who preceded the coming of the Lord Jesus, but they started way back in the O.T,
    John was a representative of these O.T saints, who have died in the past.

    I believe they all are friends of the bridegroom, now they all are going to be at the marriage.
    The marriage of Lamb that we see in Revelation chapter 19 – that takes place in heaven and the question arises –
    How are the friends of the bridegroom going to get to heaven?

    The only way I can see for them to get to heaven is thru the rapture with the church.
    So, I believe that the friends of the Bridegroom, the O.T saints up to john the Baptist are going to be raptured.

    Then there is a third group of people that are involved in the rapture – that is you and I – where do we come – well – notice in verse 17 – Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the cloud.
    there is – those of us who are alive and remain – who are still living on earth at the time of the coming of the Lord Jesus.
    We who are alive and remain – notice Paul says – we who are alive and remain – I believe the Apostle Paul expected that he might be among those who would be caught up at the time of the rapture – off course he knew the possibility that he would die – he knew that possibility and
    he said – to depart – is to be with Christ – which is far better – but he anticipated that he might be among those who are alive and remain.
    He talked to some of those Christians at Thessalonica would be among those who would be alive and remain, but they weren’t.
    they have all gone, they all have died but we may be the generation that would be alive and remain and if the Lord would come right now – and that would include each one of us,
    but the question arises – will that include every one of us –
    Does it include everyone who is alive and remain – there are those who don’t believe like us – they are called Partial rapturist.

    Their view is something like this – we can be saved by grace thru faith, but we are raptured on the basis of our works.
    I don’t find any passage in the word of God that teaches that view point, but I believe that we all will be there. As the Hymn writer say – We will all be there. I believe that is true and we will all be there.

    So, we see First of all – Lord is coming –
    Secondly – the dead in Christ are going to arise first and
    Thirdly – we who are alive and remain are going to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
    In 1 Corinthians 15:51 – the Apostle Paul speaks again about the rapture and he tells us about in that chapter that we shall all be changed.
    “We shall not all sleep”, we are not all going to die but “we shall all be changed”.
    How many of us is that? – that is all – all of us are going to be changed, that indicates that all of us are going to be there.

    When the Lord Jesus spoke in John chapter 14 – I will come again and receive you unto myself – He didn’t say – I will come to receive some of you unto myself –
    He said – I will come to receive you unto myself

    The third question that we are going to ask is What –
    What’s going to happen when the Lord comes? –
    If you are reading the K.J.V – you will find four interesting words – they all begin with the letter S – 1st one is sorrow verse 13 – Sorrow not.
    Now when the Lord’s people die there is sorrow but those who are left don’t sorrow – as those who have no hope.

    The 2nd one is sleep in verse 14 – those who sleep in Jesus. We already covered that – The Christians who die are sleeping.
    Then the third one is shout
    And the fourth one is the word shall – that tells 4 events that are going to happen when the Lord comes at the rapture.
    The first event is in verse 16.
    The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout.
    That is an absolute certainty.

    The Lord shall descend, and the first event is – The Return of the Lord.
    and we are told there are going to be three sounds that accompany in the return of the Lord – first of all –
    He will return with a shout.
    A shout – who is going to give that shout – well it is – He Himself who is giving that shout.
    What is that shout? I believe that is the shout of the Commander- in – Chief – as He calls His forces –
    That is the shout of the General as He calls His army – that is the shout of the Sovereign Lord as He calls His people to Himself.

    You see – what is the word that He shouts – I don’t know
    It may be something like the words from the book of the Song of Solomon – Arise my love, my love, my fair one, and come away;
    And those of us who know Him as our Savior will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air.
    Then there is a 2nd sound – the voice of the Arc Angel – behind the scenes – the Angels are very much interested in this great event
    and the Arc Angel himself will utter a voice at the time when the rapture occurs – when the Lord descends –

    Then there is a third sound – trump of God – I believe that is the same as the last trump that we read in 1 Cor 15, but it has nothing to do with that seventh trump in the book of revelation –
    some people try to equate it with that 7th trumpet. That is a completely different time, that is the last of seven trumpets,

    what does it mean – some people have suggested that there is a symbolism here of the O.T – where there were silver trumpets – two silver trumpets were made.
    You read about them in Numbers 10 and these trumpets were used to call the people of Israel to assemble and to call them on their journey
    and we are going on a journey and the trump of the Lord is going to summon us on that journey –

    it is the trumpets that is going to sound for us to march – but off course we are not going to march there we are going to fly there –
    So, the first great event is the Lord’s return – The Return of the Lord
    The second great event is that – the dead shall rise first – it is the resurrection of the dead.
    but they are going to be raised first.
    The dead in Christ are going to be raised first.
    Those who are in Christ are going to be raised first, – Does that mean – they are going to meet the Lord first – no – not at all.
    You will notice the next phrase – we shall be caught up together with them.
    Nobody is going to meet the Lord first – they got to be raised from the dead and because they must be raised from the dead –
    We are told in 1 Cor 15 – all going to happen in what time – in the twinkling of an eye –
    so, there is not going to be much time between the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the living – it is going to happen so quickly that you could hardly blink an eyelid.
    So, the second thing that is going to happen is that – the dead in Christ shall rise first.
    The resurrection of the dead.
    The third thing that is going to happen is then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up.
    That is rapture of the living.
    The fourth thing –
    And the fourth thing that is going to happen is at the end of verse 17
    And so, shall we be forever with the Lord.
    The fourth thing is the reunion.

    First return – The return of the Lord.
    Second resurrection – The resurrection of the dead
    Third rapture – the rapture of the dead and the living.
    and fourth Reunion.

    What a union that is going to be.

    Before we close we want to ask a few more questions –
    Why the rapture?
    Why is the Lord is coming?
    I am going to suggest 3 reasons very quickly –
    Why the Lord’s coming? –

    First of all – the purpose of His coming is to fulfill His promise.
    – I will come again and receive you unto myself and He hasn’t fulfilled that promise yet, but He is going to do it. I believe He might do it today. He is going to fulfill His promise,
    the second reason is that – He is going to take His saints out of the scene of judgment, before that tribulation all together,
    the Lord is going to remove us from the scene into His immediate presence, we are not going to be in the world at that – particular – time.
    His promise, His presence – His preparation.
    Thirdly – He is going to come again to prepare us – for the return to earth.
    To prepare us to return to earth –
    look at verse 14 –

    And We shall all be caught up together

    So that – God will bring with Him in that coming day when the Lord return to earth both the dead and the living saints and He has promised to rapture us into His presence so that we will be prepared for His coming.

    My final question – the question how –
    How should the thought of the rapture influence our lives – that is a very important thing in our study –
    first of all – it should cheer us – it should encourage us –
    look at the last verse of the chapter 4 – verse 18 – therefore comfort one another with these words –
    that word comfort means – to be called alongside – to encourage one another with these words, to encourage in sorrow – to encourage in service – to encourage in sickness, because the Lord is coming – it should be a cheering message for us all – we should be cheered.

    Not only that – I believe the coming of the Lord should challenge us –
    that is the message that comes at the last part of 1 Corinthians 15 – remember Apostle says at the close of that great chapter –
    last verse –

    58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    It should challenge us to devoted service – from the knowledge that we are going to be there, that the dead in Christ are going to be raised and that we are going to be in His presence for ever and ever.
    It should challenge us to devoted service.
    It should cheer us, it should challenge us and
    Thirdly it should change us.

    The Apostle goes on to say in the next verse – 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    We should live in the light of His coming, He could come at any moment, His coming is imminent.

    Our hope – is centered in the Lord Jesus – one day we are going to be with Him and be like Him and see Him forever.

    This should change our lives as we think of His second coming of the Lord Jesus.
    I trust our study of this great event has cheered you, I trust it has challenged you and I trust it will change you, everyone one of us as we anticipate the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Maranatha – Our Lord, come. (1 Cor16:22)
    The last time the Lord Jesus speaks in the scripture is found in the last page of the Bible – He refers three times to the fact that – He is coming again. (Rev 22.7,12,20). His coming is important, and our response should be – verse 20
    “Even so, come, Lord Jesus” (Rev 22.20). –

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  • John

    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the Saints. 1 Thessalonians 14:33

    Now the more you show your vedioes to cast doubt on the word of God … the more I am going to do as Jesus did when the Devil tried to tempt Him in the Judean Desert… Jesus didn’t try to argue the Bible with the Devil … He looked the Devil squarely in eyes and said him for it is written … everytime the Devil tried to tempt Jesus, Jesus took him back to the Bible and said to Him for it is written …

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  • THERE IS NO 1 Thessalonians 14:33

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  • Georgie Porgie

    Thanks: Then Thessalonians 14:13 …you earned your brownie points now good night … it was an honest mistake Sir …some of wunnah so behave like wunnah don’t mek mistakes …I never said I was perfect …you get what I was driving and tried to be difficult …

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  • @Lexicon

    You debating the ‘scholars’?

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  • ..and making more sense too.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Now the more you show your vedioes to cast doubt on the word of God

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I am not trying to cast doubt on the Word of God.

    GP asked me a question about the happenings in Europe so I decided to research an answer.

    I actually found the three men in the debate really helped me to better understand the Rapture, Second Coming and Israel’s place.

    The two different positions pre/post were elegantly debated with no rancor or ad hominem attacks.

    I thought the clip might help others as it had helped me.

    What I liked about it was the knowledge of the Bible simple people had from just reading it.

    When I came across the clip I had only heard of the pre tribulation Rapture.

    I happened across another clip where the single presenter was vehemently pre tribulation and attacked anyone who held different views on timing.

    I would not have even known there were other views had I not found that clip.

    That presenter however, was really good.

    What Bridegroom would not want his bride separated and as far away as possible from troubles He knew were coming her way.

    What is clear to me is I need to do a lot more studying of the Bible.

    Thanks GP for the references …. and especially the question that has me really thinking.

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  • THERE IS NO Thessalonians 14:33 either

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  • 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1 Corinthians 14:33 King James Version (KJV)
    33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

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  • John serious solid study of the related scriptures on this topic reveals that a post trib rapture makes no sense.

    In the Olivet discourse (Matt 24) Jesus posits that they are no signs for the rapture or the first phase of the second coming, which is a NT teaching only. However, he made it clear that it would be obvious when he returns in the epiphanea, or second coming proper…….for every one will see him.

    In 2 Thessalonians 2, the believers were confused because they thought that the trials and troubles they were facing was the tribulation which was supposed to precede the “coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” as taught by many of the OT prophets.

    He told them in verse 2 that the trials and troubles they were facing had nothing to do with the imminent approach of “the day of Christ” i.e the rapture, about which he had taught them in the 3 weeks he had spent with them (see Acts 17) and about which he had written to them especially in 1 Thessalonians 4;14-18.

    He then went on in verse 3 to point out that that day shall not come,(i.e the onset of the tribulation period, until after the rise of anti Christ ( a.k.a “that man of sin” and “the son of perdition,” whom he identifies in verse 4 on the basis of Daniel’s teachings as a person “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

    He then reminded them that he had taught them about this and given them the time line concerning these things.And pointed out that the Holy Spirit (he who now letteth will let) had to be taken out of the way. i.e the Spirit who resides within believers will be removed when the believers are translated at the rapture.

    Only then v 8 “shall that Wicked (i.e antichrist ) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

    Hope this helps

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  • Georgie Porgie
    December 14, 2018 1:46 PM

    JOHN
    SEE IF THIS VIDEO MAKES SENSE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO EVENTS IN EUROPE

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    We always think of the fall of Rome, 476AD, as being the fall of the Roman Empire!!

    The Roman Empire had two components, West (Rome) and East (Constantinople).

    After the fall of the West (Rome) the Byzantine Empire persisted until it was overcome by Islam in 1453.

    The Roman Empire persisted almost 1000 years after the fall of Rome!!

    Could the sign be the rebirth of the Byzantine (Roman) Empire but under Islamic control?

    https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/world-history/medieval-times/byzantine-empire/a/the-rise-of-the-byzantine-empire

    The Byzantine Empire was the eastern continuation of the Roman Empire after the Western Roman Empire’s fall in the fifth century CE. It lasted from the fall of the Roman Empire until the Ottoman conquest in 1453.

    Continuities: The Byzantine Empire initially maintained many Roman systems of governance and law and aspects of Roman culture. The Byzantines called themselves “Roman”. The term “Byzantine Empire” was not used until well after the fall of the Empire.

    Changes: The Byzantine Empire shifted its capital from Rome to Constantinople, changed the official religion to Christianity, and changed the official language from Latin to Greek.

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  • GP

    The Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire which became the Ottoman Empire which died in 1917!!

    The Rebirth of the Roman Empire could be the Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire out of Turkey!!

    Does this fit … particularly with the immigration?

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  • We always think of the fall of Rome, 476AD, as being the fall of the Roman Empire!!

    The Roman Empire persisted almost 1000 years after the fall of Rome!!
    EXACTLY! BUT THEY WERE NOT REALLY CONQUERED AND REPLACED LIKE BABYLON, MEDES & PERSIANS OR THE GREEKS

    RE The Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire which became the Ottoman Empire which died in 1917!!

    The Rebirth of the Roman Empire could be the Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire out of Turkey!!

    Could the sign be the rebirth of the Byzantine (Roman) Empire but under Islamic control? POSSIBLE. INTERESTING THOUGHT
    BUT MOST ESCHATOLOGISTS BELIEVE THAT THE REVISED ROMAN EMPIRE WILL OCCUPY THE TERRITORY FORMERLY HELD BY ROME IN WHAT IS NOW CALLED EUROPE
    I THINK WE SHALL SOON SEE

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  • Babylonian Empire
    Persian Empire
    Macedonian Empire
    Roman Empire -> Byzantine Empire -> Ottoman Empire

    These four empires have one thing in common, they all conquered and held “the Promised Land”, Israel for significant periods.

    There was a brief Moment when the Crusaders threatened, but not significant.

    The Mongol Empire was bigger than any of these but did not take over and hold “the Promised Land”, perhaps it was a dress rehearsal for the Kingdom of the East.

    After WWI, Israel, through the Balfour Declaration has its first glimpse of statehood.

    In WW! the Ottoman Empire was defeated but it did ally itself with “The Central Powers”/Western Europe, Germany and Austro Hungary.

    WWII resulted in the actual rebirth of the Jewish State.

    The threat to Israel today seems to be more real from the lands of the former Ottoman/Roman Empire than it does from Western Europe … but then Western Europe is being “invaded” by peoples from the lands of the former Ottoman/Roman Empire … and parts of Western Europe has in the past been allied with the Ottoman Empire!!

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  • The Mongols

    Daniel 11: 9-10

    “Then the king of the North will invade the realm of the king of the South but will retreat to his own country. (10) His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.”

    “Starting here, the ‘king of the north’ becomes the Mongol Empire, which was ruled by Genghis Khan from 1206-1227. He invaded Eastern Persia and defeated the Khwarezmian Empire in 1220 but returned before attacking the Abbasids. The most distinctive element of the Mongol Empire, in regards to this verse, is the successor to Genghis Khan. Rather than appointing just one heir, he divided his kingdom into four Khanates or sub-territories and assigned leadership to “his sons”. They were Ogedei, Chagatai, Tolui, and his grandsons, Batu and Orda (since their father, Jochi, had died). The individual Khans were expected to obey the Great Khan who was chosen from among the successors. Under the leadership of the “sons”, the empire spread like an irresistible flood through Russia, Eastern Europe, China, Persia,
    Syria, and Palestine.

    http://daniel11truth.com/mongols-in-the-bible.htm

    Like

  • Trump loses another on, Mattis!

    Like

  • Police say they are considering trying to shoot down a drone that has shut Gatwick Airport for more than 24 hours.

    ://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-46640033

    Like

  • This is of greater importance than Mattis resignation, cause a lot more of this will be happening in Barbados soon as depressed, downtrodden Bajans seek a way out of their daily drudgery

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/224860/body-hanging-st-george

    Like

  • re Trump loses another one, Mattis!

    Oh Lord the world will now come to an end.

    Mattis is Jesus? He is the Saviour?

    Men come and men go. others come……..and they also go. Ah lie?

    Like

  • Trump’s Generals
    Flynn
    McMaster
    Kelly
    Mattis

    Atty. Generals
    Sessions
    Whittaker (soon to be gone)

    The last named was once a mouthpiece for a company that promoted toilets for well- endowed men – (rumour has it they would have done well in Barbados)

    Shutdown imminent, the wheels are coming off.

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    That drone story is amazing.

    We had a discussion here about drones in BIm and I would frankly understand if our officials were hindered technically to counterman a single drone … But at a major international airport! WOW!

    What if PM May was coming for final approach to land or other world leader … Would such a wayward, lawless drone operator cause untold havoc…
    This is unreal.

    David Mr Blogmaster …Gen Mattis is but the top of the spear…so to speak.

    The incredible story here is that this man POTUS has gone against all rational logic and advice of his senior military team and other advisors … He also did not inform allies of his action…other than Israel it is reported.th

    This is no way to run a govt as the supreme world leader

    He has great power to do any number of things but with such supremacy comes great responsibility as well.

    Of course he will continue to operate sans his current SecDef as other presidents did when theirs disagreed and resigned mid stream

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    … but the real issue is the impulsive policy agenda based, it seems, in populace sentiment surrounding his popularity/promises rather in what’s good for the long term benefits of the US and world politics.

    I really do hope that Republicans who support these types of wayward acts are ready for asine actions from a similarly cavalier and agenda driven future Dem president…

    Like

  • Here are a set off nobodies who never ran nuttin ANYWHERE talkin shit about a successful man

    re Trump’s Generals
    Flynn
    McMaster
    Kelly
    Mattis

    Atty. Generals
    Sessions
    Whittaker (soon to be gone)

    WHICH OF THESE IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST…….THE SUPREME LEADER? NONE!
    HAS THE US BEEN RUN WELL WITH OUT ANY OF THESE PREVIOUSLY? YES AND IT WILL AGAIN

    Men come and men go. others come……..and they also go. Ah lie?

    RE I really do hope that Republicans who support these types of wayward acts are ready for asine actions from a similarly cavalier and agenda driven future Dem president…

    DID WE NOT FOR 8 YEARS RECENTLY WITNESS wayward acts aND “asine” actions from a similarly cavalier and agenda driven Dem president…REMEMBER THE JACKASS CALLED SHITBAMA?

    WAS SHITBAMA good for the long term benefits of the US and world politics.?

    RE but the real issue is the impulsive policy agenda based, it seems, in populace sentiment surrounding his popularity/promises

    IF HE PROMISED SOMETHING SHOULD HE NOT KEEP HIS PROMISES
    IF HIS PROMISES MADE HIM POPULAR SHOULD HE NOT KEEP HIS PROMISES

    SHITBAMA RAN ON HOPE AND CHANGE BUT HE BROUGHT DESPAIR INSTEAD AND CHANGE FOR THE WORST………..AND THIS CAN NOT BE DENIED

    RE The incredible story here is that this man POTUS has gone against all rational logic and advice of his senior military team and other advisors …

    SO WHAT? WHICH OF THEM ARE PERFECT?

    RE He also did not inform allies of his action…other than Israel it is reported. SO WHAT? WHICH OF YOUR FRIENDS DO YOU ALWAYS TELL WHAT YOU GWINE DO NEXT?
    IT IS BULL SHIT THAT HE HAS TO TELL ANY BODY ANYTHING

    RE This is no way to run a govt as the supreme world leader
    SAYS WHO? A FEW BU BRIMBLERS AND A NUMBER OF FAILURES IN WASHINGTON?

    RE He has great power to do any number of things but with such supremacy comes great responsibility as well. IS HE IRRESPONSIBLE BECAUSE HE DOES ACT AS YOU THINK HE SHOULD?

    RE Of course he will continue to operate sans his current SecDef as other presidents did when theirs disagreed and resigned mid stream SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT THEN? THE MAN WIN THE ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE. HE HAS THE CON

    AND WUNNA CANT DO NUTTIN BOUT WUH DE MAN DO EXCEPT TALK SHITE

    THIS GIVES ME IMMENSE GLEE CAUSE WUH EVER HAPPEN …….
    GOD IS WORKING HIS PURPOSE OUT AS YEAR SUCCEEDS TO YEAR
    GOD IS WORKING HIS PURPOSE OUT AND THE TIME IS DRAWING NEAR

    Like

  • if trump could give all of wunnah gastric and peptic ulcers and piles I would be very happy

    Like

  • as well as intussception and torsion of the testis while ya at it LOL MURDAH

    I HOPE HE DO SOMETHING ELSE TOMORROW TO GET WUNNAH RILED UP

    Like

  • The wheels are coming off……soon it will be Republicans calling for impeachment

    Liked by 1 person

  • The wheels are coming off…in BRIDGETOWN OR HAVE THEY COME OFF ALREADY?
    CAN YOU HELP THERE?
    CAUSE YOU CANT DO ANYTHING IN USA
    THE POTUS HAS THE CON.

    LAST WEEK HE TOLD NANCI AND CRYING CHUCK THAT THEY HAD THE VOTES IN THE HOUSE FOR THE WALL…………WAS HE CORRECT? OR WERE THERE CORRECT?

    THE MAN IS DISRUPTING THE BS THAT OCCURS IN WASHINGTON DC AND HE GOT THEM ALL CRAZY! ITS SIMPLY HILARIOUS!

    Like

  • The wheels are coming off…. Stock market tanking; Gov’t shut down; Republicans in disarray; Putin praising Donald; Stephen Miller the “adult” in the room……

    Like

  • Does Trump know something about the Middle East?

    Why is he getting America out?

    Like

  • It appears he knows something that the generals he lauded when he selected them are ignorant.

    Liked by 1 person

  • The wheels are coming off…in the UK NOT A WORD ON BU
    The wheels are coming off…in GERMANY NOT A WORD ON BU
    The wheels are coming off…in FRANCE NOT A WORD ON BU
    The wheels are coming off…in SPAIN NOT A WORD ON BU
    The wheels are coming off…in ITALY NOT A WORD ON BU
    The wheels are coming off…in BARBADOS NOT A WORD ON BU

    Stock market tanking; STI;L ABOVE WHAT IT WAS WHEN TRUMP TOOK OVER

    Gov’t shut down; CAUSE THE POTUS HAS A SPINE
    Republicans in disarray; RHINOS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN DISARRAY WHATS NEW
    Putin praising Donald; SO WHAT?

    Stephen Miller the “adult” in the room…LOTS OF ADULTS ON BU IN THE ROOM TOO BUT BIM STILL IN DUCKS GUTS

    @ JOHN
    Does Trump know something about the Middle East?

    Why is he getting America out?

    TRUMP HAS GOOD INSTINCTS
    HE HAS MUCH MORE SENSE THAN HIS DETRACTORS IB THE USA AND ON BU
    HE HAS PROVEN TO BE CORRECT OVER AND OVER

    THERE IS GOING TO BE LOTS OF FUN IN THE RUM SHOP AS THE BU MORONS AND HATERS BRAY

    THE MAN IS DISRUPTING THE BS THAT OCCURS IN WASHINGTON DC AND HE GOT THEM ALL CRAZY! ITS SIMPLY HILARIOUS!

    Like

  • POOR LIKKLE MATTIS THOUGHT HE WAS MORE MAD DOG THAN ANYONE ELSE
    POOR LIKKLE MATTIS COULD NOT GET HIS WAY CAUSE YOU KNOW HE THINKS HE IS GOD
    TRUMP SAYS LIKKLE MATTIS YOU MIGHT THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL, BUT I WAS ELECTED POTUS, SO THE GENERAL GOT A FIT AND IN A TEMPER TANTRUM HE DECIDED TO TAKE HIS BAT AND BALLS AND GO HOME

    GUESS WHAT? THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO COME TO AN END………yet lol lol
    SUCH THINGS HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE ah lie

    Like

  • more wheels coming off in bim not a word by the bu brimblers
    https://barbadostoday.bb/2018/12/20/wanted-more-skilled-tradespeople/

    Like

  • @John
    What a thing when FOX and Friends and Rush disagree with the Presidente.

    Wil we have a government shut down because Mexico has refused to pay for the Wall, that Ooooge Wall?

    Like

  • more wheels coming off in bim not a word by the bu brimblers

    https://barbadostoday.bb/2018/12/20/labour-movement-under-threat/

    Like

  • David
    December 21, 2018 7:49 AM

    @John
    What a thing when FOX and Friends and Rush disagree with the Presidente.
    Wil we have a government shut down because Mexico has refused to pay for the Wall, that Ooooge Wall?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    No shutdown it seems, Trump gets $5.7 billion!!!

    The cost to the social security system of illegal aliens (many from Mexico) is huuuuuuuuuge even bigger than the $5.7 billion.

    Do the math!!

    Like

  • @John

    January approaches, tick tock tick tick.

    Like

  • John
    YOU ALWAYS SEEM TO EXPECT THE BU MORONS TO THINK AT YOUR LEVEL
    IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
    MOST OF THEM ARE DYSLEXIC OR DYSPHASIC

    IF TRUMP SHOULD DECLARE FREE FOOD FOR THE POOR, THEY WILL DECRY HIM
    HATRED FOR TRUMP IS SO RAMPANT THAT NOTHING HE DOES CAN POSSIBLY BE RIGHT EVER SINCE HE WON AN ELECTION THAT HE WAS EXPECTED TO LOSE

    Like

  • RE January approaches, tick tock tick tick.

    MOCK MOCK MOCK MOCK
    TRUMP HAS THE VETO POWER AND THE SENATE

    LETS SEE HOW MANY THINGS THE DEMS PASS IN DE HOUSE THAT TRUMP WILL SIGN WITHOUT A LIKKLE MONEY FOR THE WALL EACH TIME

    Like

  • Trump is light years ahead of his opposition!!

    Everybody wants to be out of Washington and home for Christmas.

    Smart business people schedule meetings close to lunch.

    They are invariably short!!

    Like

  • @John

    Let not thysef be troubled, Pence is waiting in the wings.

    Like

  • Perhaps the best thing about President Trump is his toughness. He’s never been shy in the face of adversity, and it is his persistence and fortitude that has brought so much change to this country in so little time. More impressively, he’s done it in the face of overwhelming opposition from the Democrats and an incessant, illegal investigation that has surely strained his office, marriage and family.

    But, if you go to Israel, you’ll see nothing but gratitude. Trump stood up to the whole world, literally, when he declared Jerusalem as the capital and moved the U.S. embassy. He legitimized their heritage before the free world after a half-century of cowardice. Even your favorite modern president balked where Trump stood strong. Now, dozens of countries are following suit and Israel is that much closer to true peace.

    A similar story is unfolding in China right now. President Xi has spent the last few years consolidating political power. He has removed dissenters from office, imprisoned over a million people and had an unknown number disappeared or executed. With that power, he has abused every trade partner involved with China (which is most of the world), and he has held trade hostage. Trump is ending that reign.

    At home, he is just as tough. It’s likely to get the border wall started. It certainly kept a wave of illegal immigrants on the correct side of the border, and now, it just might save the life of a war hero. Take a look at this video and feel proud that Trump will face more scrutiny, insults and unmitigated hate in order to do the right thing.

    TRUMP IS THE BEST IN THE WEST BY ANY TEST

    Like

  • David
    December 21, 2018 8:40 AM

    @John
    January approaches, tick tock tick tick.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    When does the Republican Senate vote on the Bill?

    … in January?

    It should not matter when it votes because the Republicans control it now … and will do so again in January!!

    Like

  • RE Pence is waiting in the wings.

    WHO IS WAITING IN DE WINGS IN BARBADOS?

    THE BU BRIMBLERS AND BULLSHITTERS?

    Like

  • In theory, by the time it gets to Trump it will have what he wants!!

    Like

  • RE When does the Republican Senate vote on the Bill?

    … in January?

    It should not matter when it votes because the Republicans control it now … and will do so again in January!!

    JOHN DO YOU REALLY REALLY EXPECT ANYONE ON BU TO UNDERSTAND THAT?

    Like

  • Even if the Senate kills the Bill, Trump still wins!!

    The Democrats will be exposed and weaker for 2020!!

    Trump is there because Americans are vex over immigration.

    The Democrats are now in a ticklish situation.

    Did any Democrats in Congress support the Bill?

    Like

  • No Mattis is not the saviour. Trump apparently is. The only thing he has been successful at is crime. But he is the saviour.

    “I alone can fix it.”

    Hallelujah! What a saviour!

    Like

  • There’s no business like show business so on with the show!

    The show must go on!

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    Mr Blogmaster,…ah yes the ‘Friends and Media Foxes’ cabinet!

    They are his most ‘valued’ advisers so what the Matthis’s, Tillerson’s and their hoards of technocrats advocate is mere puffery.

    This is one instance where I think an Obama comparison is warranted: when the former presidente did all possible to stick to HIS campaign promise to pull troops out of Iraq THAT proved to be unwise. Yet here we are again with a president acting for political showmanship.

    The experts can speak to the deeper issues but I’ll go back to Powell’s pottery analogy: if u break it, you own that broken pot…you are entrusted to fix it…forever… or something along those lines 😁. The US ‘broke it’ …Trump or Obama cant disassociate from it…it doesnt wirk like that.

    So its amusing to read the standard trite remarks from the fan base…. can ANY president know the complex issues of the Middle East beyond the unquestionable standard ..defend Israel!

    Is this the SAME republican party which shouted loudly that Obama’s hands off policy was ceding the power in the region to Russia? And now this… no wonder everyone is dumbstruck…ah well, let’s see what ‘Friends and Media Foxes’ cabinet say.

    And that shutdown…that’s political theatre at its best. The President and crew at his luxury digs for the holidays without a care in the world and Secret Service agents who have to care…for him and family… and other regular employees of federal agencies with concerns about their next pay check…. if this does go the shutdown route this will be a PR disaster…but POTUS handles these things with aplomb….so I’m sure he’ll have more resignations to announce in order to distract 🤣!

    Like

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