[Barbados Underground] Yes Jeff, Charles Herbert faces a monumental task, not least because he has already been convicted in the court of public opinion. The social meaning of the case has become about the history of race relations in Barbados, so although the court case is supposed to consider the evidence dispassionately, I am not certain that a jury will lack bias
@John A
Blurred in the sense people support positions by defaulting to race talk. Especially people living outside Barbados.
@ David.
Ah ok got you now . Yes that for sure is the approach. Plus I think some of the older people having been victims of racism maybe in the 60s when it was all about colour here are prone to make the old link. The move from colour to social and economic prejudice was gradual and stealth in nature.
@ David
thanks for that . i have read the executive summary so far and what stands out is this.
that 3.3mil imay have been issued via a cheque on Jan 16th 2009 that was deposited to Thompson and Associates and First Caribbean on the same day Jan 16 2009.
the 3.3mil was related to an agreement between CHBL and Clico International Financial Limited on one hand and PFS a Parris associated company regarding a gratuity payment and not for fees and expenses as purported on the invoice
the cheque for the 3.3mil was created on Dec 30th 2008 when Thompson was PM. However it was revealed that Thompson had relinquished ownership of Thompson and Associates on May 22 2008.
in any case it seems like the invoice had not been prepared by Thompson and Associates and may have been prepared by PFS, a Parris associated company
prior to this Thompson and Associates (when Thompson headed the company) were the lawyers for Clico, Parris and Associated companies. it seems like lost of monies passed through that firm related to those companies which the audit commented upon wrt to the two agreements mentioned above and other cheques for Parris routed thru an account of Thompson and Associates as the 3.3mil cheque. the audit did not report anything untoward wrt to the agreements or the other cheques
so unless someone can show me the connection of this 3.3mil to Thompson himself i will pause there to read the rest later
@ David
thanks for that . i have read the executive summary so far and what stands out is this.
that 3.3mil may have been issued via a cheque on Jan 16th 2009 that was deposited to Thompson and Associates and First Caribbean on the same day Jan 16 2009.
the 3.3mil was related to two agreements (2002 and 2005) between CHBL and Clico International Financial Limited on one hand and PFS a Parris associated company regarding a gratuity payment and not for fees and expenses as purported on the invoice
the cheque was created on Dec 30th 2008 when Thompson was PM. However it was revealed that Thompson had relinquished ownership of Thompson and Associates on May 22 2008.
in any case it seems as though the invoice had not been prepared by Thompson and Associates and may have been prepared by PFS.
prior to this Thompson and Associates (when Thompson headed the company) were the lawyers for Clico, Parris and Associated companies. it seems like most of monies passed through that firm related to those companies which the audit commented upon wrt the two agreements mentioned above and other cheques for Parris routed thru the same account of Thompson and Associates as the 3.3mil cheque. the audit did not report anything untoward wrt the agreements or the other cheques / monies
so unless someone can show me the connection of this 3.3mil to Thompson himself i will pause there to read the rest later
@ John A
You must be careful that stupidity does not pass as analysis. In the US, we had a black chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, two black secretaries of state,, and a black president. And we were told of the post-Obama world, then we got Trump; we were told of the advance of multi-culturalism in the UK, then we got Brexit and Windrush; we were told that France had the most diverse population in Europe, then we got Marie Le Pen and the bombers.
Communities do not abdicate their power on the altar of do-goodism, out of the kindness of their hearts. Of course there has been progress and race, class and other social differentiating factors have become more sophisticated, but wealth and qualifications do not make a black person non-black.
Talk to black university lecturers in the UK; ask why is it that black Americans are about 14 per cent of the population, but only 8 per cent of economics PhDs, far below other disciplines; look at the number of black people employed in Silicon Valley; have a look at Australia’s immigration polices.
Wealth, qualifications and political power are not ethnic bleaches, they do not change the minds of racists. There is a world beyond the little 14×21 of Barbados. Stop thinking what happens in Barbados is representative of what happens in the wider world.
I have said on BU on a number of occasions that traditional Barbadians, black and white, must reach a settlement for the sake of the nation, if not it will be taken from us by the New Barbadians. We do not have to be best friends – sometimes we have relatives and neighbours we would not like to be best friends with – but we must cooperate.
“Political correctness or not: The whites supply the torches, the easily inflammable oil and the weapons, with which the coloureds massacre each other in the south. The blacks may be the direct perpetrators in their countries, but the whites are the indirect perpetrators and at the same time instigators and helpers.”
So glad to see enlightenment PEEPING THROUGH…
now apply the same template to Barbados…and what do ya get, the “instigators and helpers” are the BLACK TRAITORS IN PARLIAMENT AND BAR ASSOCIATION….the whites, indians and syrians are merely a bunch of parasitic minorities who have been sucking the blood of the majority for decades….time to starve all these criminals of BLOOD.
@John A, I would disagree a bit re your “but this time they are based solely on social and economic prejudice as opposed to skin colour as was the case in the 50’s and 60’s say.”.
I think solely is too strong a description…misleading really.
Skin colour is still relevant and informs behaviours significantly enough that it still affects how people do things.
Years ago I was in The Bahamas and a business colleague over dinner pressed me on how often I visited or was invited to the home of my white business colleagues …. I thought nothing of it then because such invitations were as much about how I opted to socialize mostly but over time I recognized that her point was indeed instructive of a certain behaviour.
Of course Black and White mingle at Westmoreland, the type soirees u noted and too at each other’s home and there are interracial marriages a plenty these days also…YET there still seems a noticeable divide !
@Greene, I am confounded… You cite the report which notes that the cheque transaction was NOT done by the Thompson law office; you cite that DT was then PM and no longer a private attorney; you cite that his supervisor of insurance had set serious sanctions against CLICO ….and despite all that a cheque was issued by his instructions (according to the JM) … Yet u ask HOW Mr Thompson was entangled or responsible for this matter! REALLY!
Look I liked DT, know MANY people who knew the man well and swear by him… and some who do NOT, I too interacted with the man so I do not condemn him willy nilly but there is nothing about this cheque affair that passes ANY smell test.
It is as insidious a conflict of interest as I have ever seen…and that’s putting it in its most fancy terms possible!
@ DPD
quote——-and despite all that a cheque was issued by his instructions (according to the JM) …——–quote
show me where i wrote that or where that is in the report and i will rethink what i wrote. i am commenting on the report itself not whether i knew or liked the man himself.
you can quote me if you like but when you paraphrase it goes out of whack
Include in the observation Mara Thompson was Office Manager. When did her service end with the law firm?
WURA
……..I don’t believe we’re on the same page. Perhaps you are “over-sensationalizing” this issue.
Why would Vernese Brathwaite be “effectively GAGGED” and “prevented from even discussing” the circumstances under which Parris and Thornhill were changed………….. unless the case remains under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion?
David BU
On March 17, 2011, Solicitor General Jennifer Edwards appeared in the High Court before Justice Jacqueline Cornelius requesting the court’s leave to present a petition for the appointment of a judicial manager for CLICO International Life Insurance. The matter was adjourned until May 2, 2011.
On February 22, 2012 Leroy Parris and Terrence Thornhill were charged under Section 185 of the Insurance Act, Cap,130, after being accused of contravening an order by the Supervisor of Insurance in 2009 which forbid the company’s subsidiary CLICO International Life Insurance from soliciting new business, (which was revealed as a result of a forensic audit into the operations of CIL.
David BU, do you remember what happened after the charges were laid? It was reported Thornhill was served with his summons to appear in Court, but Court Marshalls spent two days looking for Parris to serve him with a summons as well.
I’ll remind you what occurred in March 2012:
“Commissioner of Police Darwin Dottin has been ordered to stop the criminal matter brought against the president of CLICO International Life, Terrence Thornhill, at least for now.”
“In a temporary stay granted yesterday by High Court Justice Kaye Goodridge, the Commissioner of Police was ordered to put a hold on criminal charges brought against Thornhill.”
“The matter effectively also puts a hold on similar criminal charges the police brought against former CLICO executive chairman Leroy Parris, his lawyer Michael Yearwood pointed out.”
@Artax
Thanks, the blogmaster rest.
@ Hal
Let us agree we will never reach the state of total utopia. We have come a long way and I feel we will continue to progress. Will we ever reach the perfect world where all are seen as one, probably not in our lifetime.
If you have a friend or know a Indian born and raised in India, ask him to discuss with you the ” shades ” prejudice that exist there and how How it affects social standing. How Indians from the North view those from the South. Even though all are the same race they still look for a source of separating some from others.
So it seems even among the same ethnic race racism can still occur.
@David
so what is your conclusion
@WURUthe 08:50am “whites, indians and syrians are merely a bunch of parasitic minorities who have been sucking the blood of the majority for decades….time to starve all these criminals of BLOOD.”
Can anyone on BU imagine a white, Indian or Syrian person writing the above? Pathetic, to say the least! And to think he walks amongst us. How racist can you get? How hate filled you are. What an unhappy human being (?) you must be.
@Greene
The Clico mess made many people rich and policyholders poor. Will leave it there for now:
Class vs Race!!
How is it that King Dyal, a black man, could look at his antagonists, also “black men” and call them “black cattle” and worse?
How is it that I could always and still can meet “black” women who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and prior and automatically know they went to QC?
Class always was the defining trait of Bajans.
Not that colour was irrelevant, just that it was not so big a deal.
Respecting age was a trait all Barbadians had, irrespective of colour.
As a child I knew I could never disrespect any older person without suffering dire consequences … didn’t matter if that older person was a labourer or a plantation owner.
But if you happened to be in town and present when King Dyal passed through you would have immediately seen the difference between class … and no class in the treatment of an older man by younger men, all of them black!!
Funny thing, I never saw a white tormentor.
Perhaps King Dyal is an extreme case, an exception perhaps, but worth thinking about as we watch our country disintegrate.
@ Greene,,
If there s evidence of criminality by Mr Parris, it is the duty of law abiding people to pass that information on to the police; the police or other investigating authority will examine that evidence and pass their file on to the DPP’s office; they will then take out a writ against Mr Parris. If the case fails to be listed, then the problem is in the registry.
The judicial management review did not find that an alleged crime had been committed by Mr Parris nor, as far as I can remember, was the report sent to the prosecution authorities.
We must blame the source of the problem.
@ John,
You are introducing a binary definition. Race, colour, class and ‘poor greats’ have always been a problem in Barbados. It all comes from the role race has played in society.
Among black people it is colourism: lighter shades of black. When I was a boy, parents, in particular fathers, with skills considered themselves socially above the unskilled.
I know a prominent black woman in the UK, from a prominent Caribbean family; she has been living in the UK for over 60 years and still finds it difficult to understand race. It pains her that white people can call her a n—-, since, in her mind, she is a middle class, university educated, professional woman. It puts a smile on my face. Race removes all notions of colourism and class among black people.
@John, in the UK it is against the law to discriminate on the grounds of race, but it continues.
@David
agree with that.
i just simply cant agree with the contention that has been bandied about on this site that Thompson was a crook regarding Clico. i dont see it if the audit report is being used as a source document. .
regarding instructions coming from Thompson himself the report does not say that. it says that an email shows that instructions to Thornhill came from Thompson’s known email address with no explanatory note as to the reason for the cutting of the cheque or associated charges.
that begs the question- why was it acted upon when Thornhill would have known that David Thompson no longer acted for the company and the invoice itself was incomplete. that reinforces my belief that it is highly unlikely that email invoice came from David Thompson himself. in that regard you posted something that may be closer to who may have wrote that email.
that notwithstanding i will close with one thing
the source of that 3.3mil has not been reported as criminal money. where there is an issue it seems to be the timing of the cheque and the invoice for issuance of said cheque- when the Clico problem (insolvency) had become apparent and the reason for issuance (fees and expenses as oppose to gratuity to Parris when it was likely that Clico clients would be shafted)
it ought to be noted that Parris was owed the money according to the report but i have not read (from the executive summary) when the gratuity would have come due. even if Parris and Thompson and Associates conspired to hide the reason for the cheque – what would have been the crime if there was no criminality involving the source of the money and it was due to Parris anyway?
anyhow i am glad i read that document and am satisfied that on the face of it Thompson himself was not involved in any criminality as far as i can see from that report .
that Thornhill and Parris were charged for what appears to be a regulatory matter falls into Hal’s contention that Clico Barbados was a regulatory failure and not a criminal one
@Greene
Because all agree there was a regulatory failure it does not excuse Parris and other senior officers in the company from questionable practices. We agree the matter must be investigated. We need to know why deputy Supervisor Brathwaite has been banished without explanation. She is being paid with tax money.
@ FearPlay, If I agree with you that WARU is a racist, can you agree with me that she’s telling the truth? It’s so amazing how you and others like you are so quick to label blacks as racist and pathetic for daring to speak the truth.
But excuse me i belive the topic (here) for discussion was the DPP giving Charles Herbert a get out of jail free pass without allowing jurisprudence to take its course
In my humble opinion Charles Herbert decision smacks of bold faced corruption
A problem which this govt promised to correct
Speaking of Charles Leacock and present DPP, wasn’t it the same Leacock who for the first time went to Holetown’s magistrate court to personally oversee a case against that other white bajan who lick a shot in his son’s head? Look at the outcome of that case, ok now, look at this Herbert’s case. So you nappy head fools can continue boasting of where you went to school while you’re being shafted by your own. One angry belligerent black woman gave a man 12 months for a $6 offence. I do believe she was the daughter of the president for life, a Simple Simon.
“It’s so amazing how you and others like you are so quick to label blacks as racist and pathetic for daring to speak the truth.”
those are the slave minded them, they are many in numbers, brains need a purge from the wash…it will take another 3 generations to get rid of that cancerous blight.
“Perhaps King Dyal is an extreme case, an exception perhaps, but worth thinking about as we watch our country disintegrate.”
all yall lowlifes paid a role in its integration in the last 70+ years…whether it was the blight of racism or the scourge of classicism…all yall had ya nasty destructive hands in the pot….
….we all know most black people can be dumb as ass and still looking for acceptance…as they were mis-educated to …. in a system designed to destroy them…instead of creating their own…as our ancestors had to do to survive the brutality from demons…
and of course all the greedy lowlifes are finally going to destroy themselves because of their own decades of destructive actions against the majority population..
Karma and Retribution walking hand in hand and am loving it.
“What an unhappy human being (?) you must be.”
happy as shite, so go suck on THAT, ha, ha, ha…
wuh i aint got no DRUG CARTEL…running through the Caribbean, through South America…and straight into the Middle East….so what the hell do i got to worry about…
but yall on the other hand…
ah mean…ya wanted THE TRUTH ….RIGHT????
Mr Greene, my personal remarks re DT were made to highlight that my comments are not based on any personal angst against the man…no more no less.
I too read that report and respond to the facts differently to you…let’s leave that there because this matter was litigated extensively on these pages and back then I gave my 2 cents and more… so really no need or desire to relitigate this now.
I would simply ask you to justify how a man who was the lawyer for a private company and who then becomes in charge of all that comp’s regulations sits back and allows the removal of the regulator who seeks to sanction the said company and we all can look at the entire series of events (cheque included) and see not a itsy-bitsy problem !
If you can read the report, examine all the circumstances and opine as you do then fantastic.
Ur reasoning has a similar flair to that of supporters the WH Don…so no problem bro… all good !
YOU wrote:
“the source of that 3.3mil has not been reported as criminal money. where there is an issue it seems to be the timing of the cheque and the invoice for issuance of said cheque- when the Clico problem (insolvency) had become apparent and the reason for issuance (fees and expenses as oppose to gratuity to Parris when it was likely that Clico clients would be shafted)”
Let’s repeat something that’s indicted as FRAUD in some courts: “reason for issuance (fees and expenses as oppose to gratuity to Parris…)!
I dun bro. I gone.
@DPD,
changing the reasons on an invoice for the issuance of that cheque is highly suspicious and attention grabbing but consider this- was Parris entitled to the money? was the source of the money criminal? why was the reason disguised as fees and expenses and not gratuity?
the answers –
yes if it was for gratuity as it seems to have been
not that i can see
Clico’s money problems (insolvency) was hitting the news and any money the company had should have been retained for liquidation. Parris and or his company or others i suspect were trying to bypass this and seemingly did.
was that a criminal act? i doubt it but i would be glad to amend that statement if you can show me any law in Bim that hints that is a criminal fraud. a regulatory matter yes – no problem there what so ever.
check out the Philip Green case in the UK to do with BHS. Hal can tell you a lot about that.
I cannot beleive what i am reading.These Dems like Greene and Hal Austin flip flopping all over the place trying to seperate Mr Thompson from a questionable transaction with clico.Tell me how many year Mr Thompson was clico,s lawyer?Then have become PM and in my view a piss poor one did his wife not remain office manager and took 10 million of tax payers money to pump into clico?Mr Thompson in my view still had ties with clico anmd cannot be seperated from clico.Mr Thompson only wish to become PM but did not have any plan or clue how to run a country.
@WURA-War-on-U June 28, 2019 2:27 AM “President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil has vowed to pursue drug traffickers relentlessly. So he was hard-pressed to explain how a presidential plane ended up carrying 86 pounds of cocaine across the Atlantic during an official trip.”
I don’t know much about drug running…or in this case drug flying.
What if the cocaine was a stowaway? Or what if the cocaine thought that it had diplomatic immunity?
Lolll!!!
@John “You have to admit black bajan women have changed! ”
I have to admit no such thing.A ten year old photograph of an an idiotic woman, and an improperly supervised child does not mean that Bajan women have changed.
One swallow does not a summer make.
@Artax at 9:47 a.m. “The matter effectively also puts a hold on similar criminal charges the police brought against former CLICO executive chairman Leroy Parris, his lawyer Michael Yearwood pointed out.”
Michael Yearwood is a know D?
Real Bajan
@Artax at 9:47 a.m. “Court Marshalls spent two days looking for Parris to serve him with a summons as well…“In a temporary stay granted yesterday by High Court Justice Kaye Goodridge, the Commissioner of Police was ordered to put a hold on criminal charges brought against Thornhill.”
I don’t understand. How could Court marshalls not find Leroy. After all Barbados is not such a big place, and Leroy unlike say Winston Hall was not young and lithe, and unlike Hall he was not an award winning hiker and experienced outdoorsman.
And did the High Court Justice explain why she ordered the Commissioner of Police to “put a hold” And can somebody with legal training explain whether a judge has the authority to issue orders to the Commissioner of Police? And if so is the Commissioner bound to obey?
There is so much that I do not understand.
@David June 28, 2019 10:11 AM “The Clico mess made many people rich and policyholders poor.”
But that is the problem David.
It did not make the policy holders poor, since the policy holders are being reimbused by taxpayers like me.
I had no part in creating the Clico mess, and I resent that my tax money is being used to fix it.
I did not vote for the BLP so that they can take my money and give it to Clico’s foolish customers.
@Greene June 28, 2019 10:48 AM “regarding instructions coming from Thompson himself the report does not say that. it says that an email shows that instructions to Thornhill came from Thompson’s known email address.”
So did some person or persons unknown have access t Thompson’s know email address?
Did a man who was an experience lawyer, and our Prime Minister so careless with his email passwords etc.?
If so was Mr. Thompson naive?
Or am I naive?
Or are you?
In some work places leaving your computer open so that somebody else can send an email in your name is a firing offence.
@whiteHill June 28, 2019 11:13 AM “One angry belligerent black woman gave a man 12 months for a $6 offence. I do believe she was the daughter of the president for life, a Simple Simon.”
Nope.
I know her not.
@Lorenzo June 28, 2019 7:09 PM. “Mr Thompson only wish to become PM but did not have any plan or clue how to run a country.”
I’ve never voted for the DLP while David Thompson was party leader. Then and now I could not see why people thought that he would be good for the DLP and for Barbados.
I didn’t get it then.
I don’t get it now.
And “yes” I had voted for the DLP plenty, plenty times before David was leader.
@Hants June 28, 2019 8:05 PM “Real Bajan.”
You will need to warn your school buddy John not to go on the road on Kadooment Day, or he may get another heart attack.
@Greene, I will not attempt to impersonate a lawyer and attempt to quote chapter or verse re local criminal statutes or common law BUT in any and all jurisdictions which practice under common and statuary law as in UK or Bim it is clear that FRAUD is a crime…and as far as I know…preparing a FALSE invoice to deliberately misrepresent material facts is FRAUD.
And surely YOU know that!
Pls let deal in reality!
SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife
June 28, 2019 9:08 PM
@Hants June 28, 2019 8:05 PM “Real Bajan.”
You will need to warn your school buddy John not to go on the road on Kadooment Day, or he may get another heart attack.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Never been, hopefully you won’t be going either looking for young guys to “nurture”!!
Most bank holidays I work ….. some I sits and thinks …. and …. others I just sits!!
And DBLP corruption and SINS AGAINST THEIR OWN BLACK PEOPLE…keeps following them..
https://www.facebook.com/jackie.stewart.965/videos/1060566907486181/?t=91
DPD,
quote——preparing a FALSE invoice to deliberately misrepresent material facts is FRAUD—–quote
all i will say is that you have the right church but the wrong pew. so lets agree to disagree
the bottom line is that two people- Thornhill and Parris- were charged and for a regulatory offence
and rightfully so on the face of it
Sometimes my mind give up on following the repetitive statement but your last statement caught my attention…
Simplify the story for me….
Is this a a version of the ChalesHerbert affair with DT cast as Charles Herbert and Thornhill and Parris as two crew members? Y/N
Let me use “asking fora friend”
Is this a a version of the ChalesHerbert affair with DT cast as Charles Herbert and Thornhill and Parris as two crew members? Y/N
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
After 2 years and $25 million USD plus … no collusion, … no obstruction of justice … waste of taxpayers time and money.
Closest you could get to a parallel is the local DPP and Robert Mueller!!
… assuming you are looking for parallels with Donald Trump’s (DT’s) experience!!
John
June 29, 2019 12:52 AM
Most bank holidays I work ….. some I sits and thinks …. and …. others I just sits!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the reminder to check upcoming Bank Holidays.
Emancipation Day is a Thursday and Kadooment Day is the following Monday.
Bajans will make Friday one too!!
Nice long weekend to get some work done with no pressure … God spare life!!
Did you know I had a Quaker ancestor who got put in stocks for working on Christmas Day 1676?
In those days a holiday used to be known as a “Holy Day”!!
He was a stone mason and used the day to build a stone wall in a Burying Ground .. if you want to see it go up to the Quaker Burying Ground by St. Philip’s Church!!
That’s where I think the incident took place.
In 1676, the powers that be frowned on anyone “disrespecting” a “Holy Day”.
Theo
hahahaha. not a bad analogy except one is a criminal matter and the other appears to be a regulatory one
John
hahahaha.
Mueller is an investigative attorney after my own heart. i just love this quote-
“if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so”
it was beautifully phrased
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