During the Sunday VOB Brasstacks Program (22 November 2015) the popular and always provocative caller Mr. Anti American launched a broadside on the local media. His intervention triggered […]
a fierce exchange between veteran journalist David Ellis and the youthful and eager Corey Layne. Corey labelled local journalists as lazy, the accusation was not received very well by David Ellis. Was Ellis being his usual provocative self? With him one can NEVER tell!
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We are a small island,inter related throughout the entire melanin spectrum,very difficult to be independent and finally most of the bright ones with fear of victimisation have left the island.
BU is a perfect example of the new journalism with the majority here being anonymous and happily providing chapter and verse on everything including the sexual proclivities of others.
The Journalists have to live too………how many of you pulled your pocket to help Ellis to pay for that episode at VOB with the MoT some years ago?
@Vincent
Nonsense!
On 28 November 2015 at 21:25, Barbados Underground wrote:
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@David, I enjoy your sharp, brief remarks which often gets the point over better than detailed commentary. But you need to help me on this one as it was too brief.
What exactly is nonsense?
That journalist have to live too and thus need to be careful how they report on the actions of connected Bajans for fear of reprisals?
That our journalists would be very hard pressed, for example to report anything remotely close to the salacious revelations in the Carib Export blog, because of 1) being sued, 2) some matters likely are sub judice?
Or that Bajan journalists are in fact lazy because once they get the jobs they no longer spend as much time at their favorite gym or at the Garrison exercising?
Explain please.
@Dee Word
How is a journalist deserving of the label if he insist on picking and choosing assignments? A journalist by definition must follow the news if not go and apply to teach. Didn’t Wade Gibbons post to his Facebook page last week that Jerome Walcott assisted the Nation newspaper to write Lick Mout Lou? How many stories BU has posted and all required is a phone call or couple interviews to attest the veracity but instead they ignore because it is BU?
“This newspaper is in the business of selling ads interspersed with a little news.” Got that off the Judging Amy t.v. show. LOL.
@David November 28, 2015 at 6:29 PM #
Chuckle…….pointing to Wade with Lickmout lou after all this time is realy not on point.
Now tell me which journalist at which agency could have carried the Cahill story to the depth as it has been carried by you?
@Vincent
By your definition how can we describe them as journalist?
@David, you are a sophisticated media operator so I’m not going to rehash the real instances in Barbados where police officers, senior civil servants, corporate officials and on and on have to curb their investigations, forget about documentation and modify their business thinking because of pressure from some political or other elite.
We will forget all that and drop the burden of being righteous and dutiful in the laps of our ‘lazy’ journalists or in your words they can fight the good fight because “all required is a phone call or couple interviews”.
Suffice also to say that what is often posted here on BU would cripple if not shut down the Nation or Advocate from legal assault.
And no I did not know Gibbons posted those remarks on his FB page. Did he also write an article on the matter for his current employer? Just wondering.
We can absolutely agree however that our News organs do need to bring more of the real news to the attention of our lovely Bajan family.
And let’s also agree that you sir of BU are doing an excellent job of leading the way on that front.
@Dee Word
It is not enough what we are doing on BU, we need to get mass media to commit to its obligation of the Fourth Estate.If we don’t nothing the society is deficiency for it.
Ask Carl Moore who has ready access to same media with his 1 liners to the Editor.
David re your 7:16 PM post, I would suggest you reorient your paradigm on the power of the established local Forth Estate players.
You know media operations well enough to be fully aware that every broad-sheet now has a digital property, many have folded/merged and some are now ONLY digital.
The point sir is rather than worry about the local sheets getting the message to the masses, shift your thinking and let BU get the message to the masses.
A bit more work for you and your team to pull together a 1 or 2 page digital paper of your top trending articles/key feedback and have it drop in to email subscribers weekly or twice a week. But doable.
If you see your subscription of that grow from 100 to maybe 700 or 1,000+ in a year wouldn’t that shift the dynamic, the daily discourse and more?
Change the paradigm, good sir. The Nation and Advocate will not shift from their comfort zone unless they have to or are forced to.
@Dee Word
None of the main email blasters want to blast BU bulletins.
@de Ingrunt Word November 28, 2015 at 7:36 PM #
As usual on point.
David….you have a golden opportunity to do what the media used to do before they were neutered.
P.S. if you want an old dinosaur like me to assist with material not a prob…..you would have to get DIW to elongate it though.
OMG, so David are you actually saying that free speech is being circumscribed… remember we started off asking why the journalists are not braver; talk about the definition of irony!!!
But on a practical note though is that even allowed? On what grounds would they be doing that? Are they claiming that yours is not a real registered business or some other specious claim?
Obviously you have explored this and would have examined all legitimate avenues but this appears odd at first blush and then surmountable on second thought.
Depending on what financing and so on you wanted to sink into the venture they would be ways around that but you would have to look long and hard at what you want to achieve (re financing and possibly some small advertising revenue, I mean).
Quite interesting turn of events with your remark.
@Vincent, nah,,,short and sweet is proper for most digital formats. You all good.
Besides @Donna told me I am hopeless so there goes my lack of appeal to the female demographic.
@Dee Word
Apparently they are concerned about the backlash from existing clients.
@David, but of course…thus my original comment re the irony of your comment within the context of the blog’s riff on ‘lazy’ journalists.
I am no lawyer, as you know, but obviously those are grounds which you could attack if you want to spend some coin and time.
Other than that then you could always do it a more ‘manual’ way. But anyhow you have surely explored this in depth so no doubt you will find a viable option if you and team do want to push forward with your digital news.
All ah we…………lazy!!!
@ David
Vincent …..Nonsense!
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Understatement Boss…
You are wasting time on a hot topic by arguing with two ‘lukewarmers’…
The PROFESSION of journalism is a special and unique calling in ANY society.
Journalists document the societies’ stories; record its history; and to a VERY large extent, set its priorities.
Critically, ….THEY KEEP THE SOCIETY HONEST.
To talk shiite about ‘pressure’ diverting them from their DUTY.. is akin to excusing a fireman who runs away from fires because he can’t stand heat …or the Life Guard who is afraid of big waves.
If Ellis cannot stand the heat, then his ass should not be in the kitchen, but on BU talking shiite under a pseudonym like Bushie…. or like the ingrunt word…. or knitting or some such safe shiite…
BTW … LOL…
Corey is good though !!… at one point when Ellis asked him why HE don’t do the investigative journalism himself, Corey ALMOST told him that it was because he (Ellis) would just fire his ass like he did the Caddle girl …and a few others…. but then he decided to keep the little pick and, like DJ, decided to humour Ellis……
VOB too sweet hear…?
But we have to admit that they have done an EXCELLENT job of supporting their Trickidadian owners in their capture and subjugation of Brassbados….. In this, Ellis has been a loyal servant of VOB …and hence a traitor to Barbados.
I dont see the problem here.All three gentlemen are correct.
David Ellis is from the old school with no internet and social media when he was a young journalist of Corey’s age.His examples are telling.In fact some BBC services have closed down due to financial constraints.
Mr Anti American is from the pre social media days where social activity on the internet was very cryptic with information passed through newsgroups , IRC (Internet Relay Chat) chatrooms and mailing lists.Unless you were technically savvy you would never know but the information was always there but then general public couldn’t access it.
Corey is from the social media era where laziness just means all the information is right there for you but the restrictive nature of our society never allows it to come to the surface.Its a matter of perspective from the era which influences you the most and not a simple right or wrong.
No offense to the Blog Master but BU could only make it this far because it capitalizes on the strengths of this era which were only available from the mid 90s to the early 2000s.
“Ellis has been a loyal servant of VOB …and hence a traitor to Barbados.” Straight up ..!
Ellis btw has never professed to be a journalist, far less an investigative one. The news out of Africa could be easily had by accessing the African on-line news papers. No BBC or the sell out Al Jazeera required. As the previous Director of News, Ellis could have made that type of reporting a policy. He chose not to … a traitor not only to Barbados, but to the entire Black diaspora.
The conversation was purposely shifted to Media practices to avoid a discussion on the Political Parties and the fact that they cannot be sued. How the hell do you sue a gang ..? Anti like he get cut quick too …!
Is Lick Mout Lou journalism?
@Sargeant
You tell us. It maybe the closest thing we have to journalism because the info mentioned is usually true just that local media is scared shirtless to publish in the traditional way. Ask Carl!
Talk what you want. “Citizen Reporting” and commensurate citizen interaction with that reporting is on the increase as such relates to Barbados. And we have the evidence to prove it.
The instance of Facebook, Barbados Underground, RefocusingBarbados and even Naked Departure substantiates that fact with different audiences gravitating to the centre of information they are comfortable with
I must admit that de ole man doan use Facebook and only got a Facebook account because my son set up one for me. It confuses me what the sections are about, what is a timeline, what is a tag etc and you would appreciate that the same way the Facebook clutter is unappealing to an octogenarian in similar vein the simple layout of a blog white requires one to read some text, which the younger illiterates have their first problem with AND THEN UNDERSTAND, THINK ABOUT AND RESPOND, let us face it we are talking about sheeple who can’t chew gum and ride a bicycle at the same time so the audience is different.
Let me share a secret.
De ole man has invited five of my friends to BU. All came and only one remains a poster until today. In fact I came to BU through an old dear friend who is still here
The simply process to do that invite IS NOT SO SIMPLE!!
You are risking a few things, the anonymity of who you are should they see your style and rat on you to people here or among friends when they are having a drink or two.
Barbados Underground IS NOT A BINGO MEETING! It is for the most part, serious thinkers or peeple who can and will reason barring Domps, legion and Alvin.
The point I am trying to make is that while coming here seems easy, it is not because the reader s profile is exacting to begin with and because of the witch hunting mentalities of bajans across our society, posting is even harder.
Look how none of the politicians on the DLP and BLP can mention that they come here daily?
Fear drives them to do rather to not do and couple that with the Freepress sharing ips with the enemy and that does not make for good free social digital interaction
People trust David the Blogmaster, I trust David to safeguard my identity and that is the critical component of this that takes time to build.
Additionally when you get here and post shyte you going get whacked as Danny Gill realized, unfortunately Come Sing a Song has not and well AC or legion is just too many demons to tame…
I still dos like the iPad cause it changes de ole man words and puts letters where I ent typed none
@Bush Tea November 28, 2015 at 9:50 PM #
Chuckle…….Use of English………understanding……..you have in effect said the same thing I did in your post above.
Outside influences are preventing journalists in Bim from being journalists.
Yuh mussee went up&on in august.
@Vincent
Adrian Green addresses this matter in his column today as well. In a nutshell, our journalists have become comfortable.
All that exchange showed was the establishment (Ellis) and The young, eager, future of our country (Corey). Of course Corey is correct. Do we really have journalists or do we have people who work at radio stations and newspapers…a very big difference.
@David November 29, 2015 at 7:44 AM #
Agreed and I also agree that Corey has a point.
Question is why and that is what I and DIW have tried to answer………..and even BT agrees with our answer.
@Vincent
Your answer can be found in the fact that there is no BAJ.
Just imagine!
I love that Green man. I’m going to check out his column.
@David
The lack of BAJ corroborates the answer we gave.
A new angle from the Green man as usual. Got it from a wise coconut vendor.
Don’t you get it Vincent?
All countries are blessed with a wide variety of talented people -often in very specialised areas. ….A highly talented carpenter can be a cricketing idiot.
The CHALLENGE of ‘education and manpower development’ is to :
1 … Identify those various talents as early as possible
2 … Hone and develop those talents to the max
3 … Direct the then ‘national resources’ into their areas of relevance
4 … Put systems in place to maximise performance and results
What we have instead, is a set of ‘brass bowlery’, where square persons find themselves in wrong holes – placed there by political lackies seeking to share some mythical pie…
The lack of ‘journalists’ is not so much about the non-existence of competent and FEARLESS exponents of the profession, but about lackies ‘playing house’…
Similarly, the fact that ‘political shiite-hounds are currently damning the country’ does not say that talent of the HIGHEST POSSIBLE INTERNATIONAL STANDARD is not available to us. What it says is that we, as a people are prepared to wax lukewarm ..and just accept the shiite as it is……You and Dee ingrunt Word exemplify that mentality….
Indeed, many others of us also do – which is actually THE reason that the country is up shit street…
..and also why we DESERVE the stuff coming off the big fan….
@Bush Tea November 29, 2015 at 8:28 AM #
Could not disagree with your 4 points.
For the record I agree with most of your thinking except for your irrational behaviour when it comes to issues of Homosexuality,Chauvinism and BBE
Now could you point me too where I have accepted…..shiite…..
@Vincent
In a nutshell regarding the BAJ, there is always strength in numbers.
@David November 29, 2015 at 8:47 AM #
Agreed.
In Bim too many anecdotes exist of leaders turning around and not finding any followers…..we lack trust in each other.
Just so you know. Newsmedia in Canada will hire high profile Lawyers to protect their
“Investigative” journalist.
Can you say the same obtains in Barbados?
I listened to the WORLD HEAVY WEIGHT boxing match on the radio where the British fighter Fury defeated the Ukrainian champion (almost ten years undefeated) on a points decision.
I woke up this morning and read the headlines in the Barbados nation that “Fury stops Klitschko to win heavyweight title”.
This headline is incorrect the fight went the full duration. Both fighters lasted the full twelve rounds. Yes the local media is both lazy and inferior to other regional nations such as Guyana
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/75001/fury-stops-klitschko-win-heavyweight-title
BAJ was founded on a concept that embraced a Right for Barbadians To Know … Four years ago the same Anti- fella got the President to admit that it was a deception … and that there was in fact NO RIGHT TO KNOW. A well known, very vocal, go-to constitutional lawyer called in and admitted that there was indeed NO right to know … ANYTHING.
Goodbye BAJ, you will not be missed
@Vincent
We have Anthony Bryan who controls the Advocate with little circulation nowadays and has descended to be a political mouthpiece. He also controls BBS.
We have the One Media Outfit more concerned with ratings than pulling the tail. Let us examine the recent appointment of ex banker Shaw who was fired by a bank and offered the job of Gittens. Why?
On 29 November 2015 at 13:26, Barbados Underground wrote:
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In partial defense of David Ellis, the present defamation laws and the absence of a Freedom of Information Act present a challenge to anyone trying to engage in investigative journalism. That said, he and others in the field are not even trying.
THERE IS NO PUBLIC RIGHT TO KNOW ..
Ellis getting down in age, what you all expect. You cant put all the pressure on one person. And I think you all are missing the bigger issue. Ellis up to two weeks ago, stated that the defamation laws and threats of lawsuits hamper local journalistic freedom in this country. Even the Computer Mis-use Act is now being missued to hamper freedom of expression.
@Kevin
Then you do not think Ellis et al running a few 6:30/Brasstacks programs to educate the public to the challenges would do his profession a good service?
@ David, Yes, I think that’s a good idea.
@David
I have already indicated that journalism is poor in Bim even down to proof reading,the reasons for it have been identified here and in bajan parlance the dog dead.
The only avenue open to the people of our fair land is here on BU and whichever others come later.
The King is dead long live the King…..so BU wear your crown with pride.
@Vincent
How can BU or any similar entity wear any thing with pride if we are where we are i.e. declining economic and social states? We are all part of a whole not so?
@David November 29, 2015 at 11:06 AM #
Pride in one self……nobody or nothing should take that away……the economic,moral,educational and legal decline of a country has to be addressed and presently your medium is the best way to deal with it.
Investigative cut & pasting by Hants for and on the behalf of Hants.
“SEVERAL BARBADIANS have lost their homes after defaulting on their mortgages in the last seven years”
http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/74975/foreclosing-resort-scotia#sthash.ZIRuAzzg.dpuf
@Hants
Does anybody care? Chalk it up to an economic reality, a statistic.
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