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Whenever there is a murder committed in Barbados expect to hear the cry from the public, hang them! The recent robbery at the Campus Trendz store in Tudor Street which resulted in the death of six persons has sparked the usual debate, hang them! Barbadians in favour of capital punishment should soon come to the realization that hanging will not* occur ever again in Barbados. Almost 90% of lawyers in Barbados actively lobby against it and 90% of the Lower House (lawmakers) is comprised of lawyers. The traditional media in a macabre way exploits the capital punishment debate because it makes for good sales.

There is the other side of the debate which in the emotion of the moment we always forget. What about the actors who have to participate in the executions? There is the Judge, Executioner,ย  Prison Warders, Priest, family members and others. Many stories can be told of judges, priests and warders whose mental state have been noticeably affected because of their close association with executions. In fact many of the actors involved in the execution over the years have committed suicide. So many people who have had to endureย  great psychological pain all in the name ofย  justice. It is interesting to note the priest who was always invited to the cell to forgive the sins of the condemned person did so at great personal sacrifice. Often the priest had to visit the prison in the dead of the night to retrieve the soul of the condemned person before the scheduled early morning execution.

What BU finds fascinating is the role of the Executioner. Many believe the job of Executioner is without preparation. How often have we heard people, perhaps in ignorance volunteering to do the job for free?

The Executioner arrives at the prison around midday before the execution. He is given a room, because he will be there until after the execution. His first job is to weigh the prisoner and measure his height and to estimate the musculature of his neck. The prisoner is taken out of the condemned cell for about an hour, during which time the executioner goes into the execution chamber, which is right next door to the condemned cell. He collects the tools of his trade from the warder โ€“ arm and leg straps, hood and two ropes which feed through eyes to form the noose. The Executioner selects the appropriate rope, nooses it, calculates the drop, so as to sever the vertebrae between the first and second and then attaches to the rope a sandbag of the same weight as the condemned. He then works the mechanism of the drop and leaves the rope to stretch with its sandbag over night.

Next morning armed with the knowledge the condemned person is next door, he quietly retrieves the rope, makes final adjustments to the drop, retracts the trap door, marks a T on the spot the condemned will stand and moves the cotter pin on the mechanism, so that it is just flush. He also places two parallel planks over the drop for warders, in case the condemned cannot stand on his own. He then waits outside the condemned cell, until the warder gives him the signal. Then, he goes into the condemned cell and binds arms of the condemned person. While he is doing this, the door that leads directly from the cell to the execution chamber is opened. The executioner conducts the condemned to the gallows and, while he is hooding and noosing the condemned, his assistant straps his feet. The executioner then removes the cotter pin and pushes the lever and the condemned drops. Then, he goes to the walkway with the doctor and priest and opens the condemnedโ€™s shirt so that the doctor can pronounced death. They then leave the man hanging for half an hour in the locked chamber. After half an hour, the executioner returns to the pit, attaches a winch to the man, releases the noose and then strips the man of his clothing and hoses down both man and chamber. He then places the man on a gurney and that is his job done.

BU understands there is a thing called the โ€œdeath watchโ€, which is a rotation of guards who are with the prisoner in the condemned cell up until he is taken into the chamber. BU further understands almost all of those guards have required psychiatric attention at some point in the past.

Some years ago the Caribbean was awakened to the news that Trinidad had executed drug lord Dole Chadee along with eight members of his gang. A decade later the murder rate per one hundred thousand in Trinidad and Tobago is one of the highest in the Caribbean and the world. To those who suggest hanging is a deterrent the T&T experience makes for an interesting and sobering case study.

Then we have the likes of Bush Tea and Bonny Peppa who hold the view the death penalty is a punishment, simple. Many of those who find themselves on deathrow is as a result of crimes of passion, usually from the lower rung of the social ladder. The growing number of unsolved murders suggest to BU we maybe hanging the wrong people.

As a small society we need to be more proactive to address situations before they lead to murder. Nowadays we are so quick to fight fire with fire. BUโ€™s position echoes that of current Attorney General Fruendel Stuart, in cases where there is no doubt and the murder is deemed heinous enough by a Court of Law the death penalty should be an option. However the BU household remains ambivalent on the issue of capital punishment.


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141 responses to “The Other Side Of The Gallows, The Suffering Of Many In The Name Of Justice”


  1. …”in cases where there is no doubt and the murder is deemed heinous enough by a court of law the death penalty should be an option”
    Before I make my submission, can you please explain this to me clearly please. Thank you.

    I’m infuriated.


  2. @Bonny

    The idea that although justice may seemed to have been done does not rule out the fact an innocent person maybe hanged in the process.


  3. Why should people volunteer to do the job for free when they may need that same money to visit a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist.


  4. After reading this summary, I am even more convinced that hanging is barbaric and has no place in modern society.

    I do not share the same level of confidence some others have in the abilities of our investigators, so just to be safe, I say life imprisonment without the possibility of being released, unless new evidence proves incontrovertibly that the sentence was unjustified.


  5. Oh dear David, that is why I said ‘beyond a shadow’ of a doubt. Good case n point is the one at Francia Plantation. Those men were guilty as charged. They shoulda been hanged. Oliver escaped n recked havoc in this place. No remorse whatsoever for his wicked deed. Wah ya telling me a ‘tall?
    I don’t care about the details of the hanging. If the doctor is removing your appendix, do you want him to detail it ball by ball for you or you want it over n done?
    Too much compassion is shown for these criminals and not enough for the victim’s family.
    What about the initial shock of receiving the sad/bad news of a loved one murdered at the hands of a heartless criminal? What about when the family has to make funeral arrangements. What about the child/children left behind? What about after the burial and the tough exercise of getting rid of their belongings? That is a real killer too. Getting rid of the belongings. What about the memories?What about compensation? And can one be ever adequately compensated for the untimely loss of a loved one? Who visits with these families and for how long a period? They’re soon forgotten just like the victim/s.
    You take a life, be prepared to forfeit yours. Plain n simple.

    A soldier goes to war with the understanding that he is likely to kill or be killed. That is his job knowingly. The executioner’s job is just that too. A job. Why get so attached to the executee (new word).

    Life imprisonment means that you are still accorded cordial visits from family n friends. And just now they would be asking for conjugal visits too so as to give them an ‘ease’. LOLL
    Will the victim/s ever have that opportunity with family n friends?

    Don’t try to convince me otherwise. And yes, I feel the same about my sons. My heart would ache n my stomach burn but justice must be upheld. Sorry son.


  6. Not trying to change your mind Bonny, simply putting another view. Will killing the person lessen the pain of the victims family? Don’t confuse revenge for pain.


  7. When an executioner kills another person who committed murder, is he not also committing a murder, by taking another life. It’s been repeated over and over that 2 wrongs don’t make a right, and imo it is another wrong and is premeditated murder.
    When someone commits murder, it does not give Government the authority to reciprocate this kind of punishment to an alleged murderer. Furthermore it is just as insensitive as that being committed by the murderer.

    When a family member commits murder that family wants leniency for their love one, but when a family member is the victim the family wants and expects the death penalty. I cannot understand how someone could feel better knowing that the death penalty was applied which still does not bring back the victim.

    I am in no way stating that alleged murderers should not be punished for willfully or unintentionally taking another person’s life. I know full well the argument could be made that execution would take the murderers out of their misery. However, I maintain that they should be dealt with using some other form of punishment, be it humiliation which is a demoralizing role. Some people may not accept such form of punishment to be harsh enough, but it would depend on what that form of punishment entails and how it would be administered.

    The death penalty is not the answer for revenge, a deterrent, or satisfaction. Be as it may no one, although the person might have committed a heinous crime should have to go through that antiquated method of hanging, when there is an alternative technique.

    Regardless of our beliefs, there is no easy solution in determining the most appropriate punishment.


  8. I agree totally with you Bonny Peppa also because persons know that anyone in the C’bean will likely NOT hang again they are doing these crimes. Every 7-10 years people have to be given a reminder of the law. Be fair be lenient when necessary but hang the violent criminals. In a case like unwarrant attacks should the families not get justice? And eye for and eye. We have been turning the other cheek for too long.


  9. @David. This is excellent. It is an excellent exposition and gives the other side.

    Personally, I am totally opposed to the death penalty. We need to change the social structure that causes murders. But that is not easy. Execution is the easy option that keeps the society (for the most part) happy, and does f*** all to solve the real problems, that of changing society. The support of the death penalty is an automatic vote-grabber. Imagine, getting into office on the undertaking to take a human life?

    Bonny, my dear, sorry but disagree with you. All very well to say that if one of your children committed murder they would have to hang and you would deal with that psychologically. However, it is not just about you, but about that child’s siblings, uncles and aunts, grandparents, friends etc. It also about the warders and their families and all whom that execution touches and, as David has pointed out, the MANY lives it destroys.

    I agree with David on the fact that many innocent people have been executed. I believe that if it is possible for one innocent person to be the victim of state-sanctioned murder, then the death penalty ought to be off the books at once. Therefore, as there are abundant incidents, the death penalty has to go.

    “Vengeance is Mine”, sayeth the Lord. I am more than happy to leave vengeance to that Authority. The objective of a penal system ought to be to withhold from society those who have (and might) continue to cause it harm. And to work to try to rehabilitate them, so that they can be assimilated back into that society as useful and productive members of it, who are likely to not re-offend. Then leave it to the Almighty to deal with us all, including murderers. Or is there some doubt as to the ability of the Almighty to do His job?

    Bonny, you raised the matter of restitution. Remember that families of murder victims can always bring wrongful death actions, but I would not recommend it, as it is one of those expensive cases on which there is likely to be little or no return. Put it this way. You cannot get blood out of a rock – and has if ever occurred to you that, for the majority of cases, people who carry out murders are of the poor and disenfrachised part of our population?

    David highlights the 9 executions in T&T about 10 years ago. While deploring the carrying out of these, I understand and would have guessed that T&T did this simply because the murderers were NOT poor or disenfranchised, but kingpins of a criminal cartel that used murder as a means of enforceament and for the creation of greater wealth. T&T was, I believe, sending a message that wealth and influence (and muscle) would not save you from the gallows. I deplore, but I understand.


  10. A few points:

    Article quote: ”To those who suggest hanging is a deterrent the T&T experience makes for an interesting and sobering case study”

    Note that Dole Chadee was apparently still running crime from jail. So execution was a deterrent, to his actions.

    Then Amused quote”We need to change the social structure that causes murders”

    How? Many muders appear needless and awful, with no justification and no excuse of ‘desenfranchisement’.

    Take the murder of the sixteen year old girl a few years back. How exactly can such a murder or the ‘canefield murders’ be justified by lack of social development.

    Sorry, I am of the view that ‘personality’ is something you are born with, that impacts your outlook and underpins actions, whereas character is the development of that personality, which brings your personality to pinnacle or otherwise.

    Put simply everyone is born different and some are born wicked. You cannot tell me otherwise, I have seen too many examples of human interaction.

    The article quote ”The growing number of unsolved murders suggest to BU we maybe hanging the wrong people.’

    Why? This statement is without substance. Having unsolved murders means just that…unsolved murders, those people have not been caught. If you say that after the execution of one apparent killer, the modus operandi and crimes for which he was executed appeared afterwards, with expert opinion pointing to the same killer, then there would be substance linking the two.

    That said, there will be no more death penalty here in Barbados, we have signed too many international conventions etc.

    Anyone who boasts of bringing it back is full of hot air.

    The fear however, is that family /families may start to take action is serious cases, such that a perpetrator is stabbed in jail or some such action.

    While this is wrong in the law i.e. taking the law into one’s hands, when a crime is heinous, what can one say to such a family, if they do?


  11. An executioners job is not going to be an easy one. Therefore it is incumbent for the state our country to have this person well prepared phsically and psychological . One can debate the Death Plenalty pro and Con but pleading the job of the executioner is not one of them. Society can seek alternative methods that would be less barbaric than hanging like injection .But to discard the Death Penalty is not the answer .


  12. After the above, I am all for prison reform.

    The main issue being that one should only go to jail for violent crime i.e. crimes involving violence, intrusing on personal space or property, or threats of violence.

    Therefore, issues of debt, fraud etc should be dealt with by community repayment and personal repayment.

    I am also for electronic tagging of convicted persons in some cases, such that the Police can track such persons if necessary.

    Such an approach will assist in reducing prison costs as well as tracking the progress of offenders, as well as ensure that in some cases instead of ‘punishment’, we aim at repayment to society or the persons who have lost.

    In case of debt or fraud, repayment is easily correlated to crime, even if the full amount cannot be repaid, even over say, ten years.

    Only if the fraud offender then repaeats, should jail be considered.

    Incarceration removes the person from society, thus is only necessary in crimes of physical threat to society.

    Tracking of such offenders can be done by electronic means. For reporting etc.

    Tracking of incarcerated violent criminal would be done for another reason i.e. escape prevention.


  13. For the lawyers here, by the way, is there some provision that if the execution does not work in the first instance, the sentence is commuted?


  14. In the US despite capital punishment being on the books we see the escalation of a violent society. What about building a Christian society which is underpinned by state killings?

    The bottomline is there will be no more hanging in Barbados so to debate it is really an exercise in futility.

    The blog highlighted the nature of the Executioner’s job but did it also not mention the warders, priests, court officers etc?


  15. Every job has its risk factors but should these jods be done awawy with . Policeman see guts and carnage on murder scenes but should his role be replaced because of such events, The mortician that persen has to deal with all types of deaths some of which are barbaric in nature so should we replaced that role too. The point is proper training is relevant and necessary for all involved not throwing out the baby with the bathe tub because we can’t not cope.


  16. Dear Amused:

    You wrote ” We need to change the social structure that causes murders”

    You genius you. Tell me how are we going to do that?

    I hate to remind you that Cain killed Abel and I don’t know that the social structure was so bad or oppressive at that time since they were so few people in the world at that time there were plenty of and plenty of opportunities for social advancement.

    Ok, ok, you may not believe the Cain/Abel story, but my point is even if the story is just that, a story, the point is that people have always committed murder. I know that you know that rich people commit murder too, and intelligent people commit murder, and religious people commit murder, and well educated people commit and so on and so forth.

    You genius recall that millions of our people were murdered coming across the middle passage purely because a lotta lazy white people wanted a lotta, lotta “free” labour and money (greed)

    Recall that Hitler ordered the murder of the Jews because he and Germany were envious of thier suscess. (envy)

    Recall that a UWI law professor’s wife in Jamaica beat him to death with the toilet bowl lid when she discovered that he had been bulling on the side for all the years of their long and “successful” marriage (jealosy)

    Recall that men murder female prostitutes all the time (hate + jealosy too because the women can sex more that them)

    Recall that any woman anywhere in the world is in more danger from her husband/boyfriend than from anyone else. Recall that a woman is more likely to be murdered by her male sex partner than by anyone else. Maybe all women should stop having sex with every man. That should lower the murder rate. Although I suspect that murderous men would soon find an excuse to begin murdering “their” women again.

    Ya get my drift?

    But if you have a cure that will prevent people from committing murder, bring it on man, and next year that is a Nobel prize waiting for you.

    I will personally buy your ticket for you to pick up your prize.

    People commit murder because of hate, anger, jealosy, greed, etc. I don’t know how you plan to go about digging sin out of the human heart.

    Religious people have tried for thousands of years and yet EVERYDAY people murder each other. EVERYDAY.


  17. I endorse the suggestions made by Crusoe in his post @ 5:46 a.m. I would only add that life imprisonment should mean just that for convicted murderers. I am also firmly of the opinion that a more religious society (Christian or otherwise) does not mean a more peaceful, moral and ethical society. It appears actually to be the opposite.


  18. A whole lote about saving murderers. Very little about saving victims family.
    Every cent spent on preserving the life of a murderer should have been spent on enhancing the life and mental health of the victim’s family.


  19. I now have to adopt a commando style approach to life. Attack and kill before I am attacked and killed? Man has been killing since man born….. looka I ain’t nuh Christian but Cain did kill his brudder Abel outta jealousy. The heinous nature of mankind is here to stay, all the talking and teaching both religious and academic ain’t gine stop a man from killing, especially he woman when he get vex or jealous. I agree with Bonny, hang dem and remove dem from society. I am also amazed that how many of dem does find God in Jail. If man cannot control himself this is a sure means to control him.


  20. I am a law abiding citizen therefore I am prepared to suffer the consequences if I go contrary to those said laws. If I am caught stealing food I can always tell the judge that I didn’t have money to buy food, so gimma a break. If I am caught breaking the speed limit again I can always tell the judge ‘man, I was late fa work, so gimma a break. If I break into a person’s home with the intent solely to steal his/her money n jewellry but I cah long a gun, just in case, and he/she catch me ‘red-handed’, so I had ta shoot he/she. But judge, ‘gimma a break, cause he/she in had na right catching me in dem house ‘red-handed’ so gimma a break.

    Is this what wunna-all telling me? Fa true?

    David, you made a really co,passionate plea for the vagabond not to hang. You even drafted in the effects it would have on the prison-officers, inmates, superintendant, executioner, family, relatives, friends. You forgot to mention the pet dog n fish. Cuddear, de dog n fish would feel it too.

    Now, plead your case with the family of the victims and see if they will agree with your concept. And ya in got ta explain it to dem dog n pet fish too. Dem would undastan.

    And don’t think for one minute that Bonny is trying to be facetious. I am more serious than a heart attack on this one. And I am not easily deterred.

    Amused
    Is alright to disagree pun dis whun. We does agree pun most tings, especially we ‘meetin-places’. But we gotta be mo careful dese days. My convertible-bike cannn protect we from dese gun-toting murderers. You remember Mopsy?

    Crusoe
    Hope your sentiments are this placid should a heartless killer come a calling.And remember, the operative word here is ‘heartless’. Society can’t give a heart to the heartless no matter how hard they try. You can’t change your outlook because of circumstance ya know? ya eitha for or against, regardless.

    SCOUT
    Lemma hear ya take pun dis whun nah. Knowing how you feel ’bout you famblee, I know how you would feel if one a yours was taken by a cold, callous murderer. But lemme hear ya nah.


  21. My commando outfit is next to muh bed…….a cutlass, a can of Baygon and a can of Bop, all I want is a gun now to be properly prepared. Anyone selling theirs?


  22. @Bonny. Your convertable bicycle is the joy of my life. You posts are second only to that. It would be a sad world is we all agreed – and boooooring.

    @J. I have absolute respect for (most of) your opinions, including on this subject. However, please believe that I, as a young man, was all for hanging them high. Then there were certain experiences in my life that left me with the unalterable conviction that the death penalty was wrong and is not a solution, but just extends the hurt, despair and every other negative force to many others. Face to face, we could sit and argue the point and I am sure your convictions come from a heartfelt belief as well. They just don’t agree with mine this time. Let us agree to disagree from time to time, otherwise we will very soon get fed-up with each other. I have close friends who would agree totally with you and who express great opposition to my views, but I cannot change those views and they respect that, as I respect (reluctantly) their views.

    How to change society? Well, society is doing that on its own, but there is nothing that says we cannot give it a helping hand. The main source of murders is among the have-nots and those who, despite their best efforts, will probably never have. We need to strive (and this is simplistic, I know) towards greater equality and understanding. It is not a finite process, but an infinite process – the work will never be done, but if we do what we can to assist it, just maybe we will see a decrease in murders. Well, dear J, there goes my Nobel Prize out the window. I am sure there are a lot of people with far more brains than I have who have tried to find the answer, but that is mine, in this lifetime at any rate.


  23. Amused
    Your Nobel Prize is out the window, but look over yonder, alas! Voila!!!! Here comes Bonny, clad in earth-suit only at your doorstep. And wowwwwwww, even the door mat says “WELCOME”.
    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    islandgal
    ya got ma down pun de ground bawlinnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. but ya faget ta put a bottle a acid nex ta de bed too. I sellin one a my ‘weaponzzz’.
    Only pun BU boy. ya does gotta eitha laff, cry or stupseeeeee.

  24. Been in town too long Avatar
    Been in town too long

    Truth is that neither position will solve the scourge of murder. Nothing will stop man from killing. What is important and of interest to me is the reasons. Why would one human being look another one in the eye and plunge that knife in their chest, chop them across their neck with a sword or shoot them in their belly?

    J mentioned jealousy, (a big one in my view) hatred, greed and envy. No one has mentioned killing for profit. What do you think are the main reasons for such extreme human behaviour here in Barbados?

    Do we murder for the same reasons as our neighbours in Jamaica, T&T or St. Kitts?

    You see I notice in recent years a different type of murder creeping into our society. I call it enforcement murder. The murder of competing interests in the drug world. Not the crime of passion where a jealous man gets blood in his eye or a woman who has been physically abused for years and can’t take it any more. Not rum and bravado ruling some foolish men in a rum shop. Not the occasional bad man who hones his craft from early exposure to prison and gets a gun or dynamite somewhere along the way to help in his criminal endeavours. We all know several cases that fit these descriptions. Can we change any of these people? Can we scare them out of murder? I don’t think so, but so long as they are only a handful among us then I think we are doing okay as a country.

    And before someone says I am not considering the victim, I am not heartless, but I also know that in Barbados most murder victims are killed by someone they know. So maybe what we need to do is educate and empower our people to recognise when they are placing themselves in a dangerous situation as a way of mitigating for the behaviour of others.

    But back to my main concern. The changing nature of crime, sometimes resulting in death, that is creeping into our lives. If we can identify the cause then we have a chance to change one individual at a time before murder is the conclusion.

    It is not too late for us, but we need a strong police force and leaders (politicians, teachers, priests and preachers) that emphasize a respect for authority both by their words and their own actions. We need a strong sense of what is right and wrong.

    And we need to abandon our devotion to that new flat screen tv, the latest BB, the hair and the gear. Why do we no longer care about the old man or granny that lives next door or the children whose mother comes home late from work or our neighbour’s son we saw liming with a bad crew?

    Guess its easier to point fingers and call for blood when things go wrong.


  25. The international community on whom Barbados depends for financial assistance in the main does not have Capital Punishment! It is barbaric, Mosaic in intent and has never been a deterrent! I hope that we show ourselves as a society that will incarcerate for life but will not carry out such an inhuman act for any reason.


  26. Funny, but Amused is correct. The pressures on the lower social and economic sections of this country causes sparks to fly where under no pressure they would not. We deny ourselves and our condition but in the end, we are an angry people, full of animosity, frustration and far from happy. We put up facades, turn our heads and anything so as not to see the injustices and make belief that we are living happy.

    The evidence is there. Nobody wants to offend. People go in corners and complain to the air. The chips on our shoulders keep us down. We are said to be full of double standards, etc. etc. etc. Only very conscious poor people are able to overcome this anger.

    When people who we consider to be decent, kind and loving cannot see that hanging is also murder and would pretend that there is justice in hanging, we see the anger. Only an angry person would call for the murder of another.

    All the while though, we fail to see who we are. What justice in hanging what? Amused is correct. We ought to get to the bottom of our anger and many murders/crime would not happen. Our anger and crime rate stems from our social and economic conditions. We can do better, except that our politicians are overly self-serving and those at the bottom will not sit idly by and suck salt when others seemingly live in paradise.

    The problem is that the anger is directed at ourselves and not those who are responsible for the condition and those others who are bent on maintaining it for their own selfish ends.


  27. @islandgal

    Your position which portrays a citizen under ‘siege’ does not accord with the Commissioner.

    @Bonny

    BU’s position was made clear in the blog. However unlike you we remain ambivalent on the matter because it is a difficult one which has no boundary of right and wrong.


  28. politics
    NEITHER DLP nor BLP will resume hanging
    so dont wait for that
    EITHER PDC or PEP will promise hanging
    maybe

    Please fix the social , educational and economic imbalances before you talk about hanging.—level the playing field


  29. Moses law !Simple as Dat!!!


  30. Moses law is the way to go!What the f— these pip squeeks were thinking when they intentionally or unintentionally robbed six families of their children? The mind boggles and it hurts!!


  31. @ROK. Well said. And it isn’t funny that you and I agree. The changes that need to be made to society are those designed to preserve, not destroy – as you know and work with every day of your life. All it takes is a little give and take. A little understanding, instead of condemning with self-interest at the core of it. Necessary change is something that ought to be embraced carefully, not rejected out of hand. Because the change will come – one way or another. And I would rather live in a country where this is harmony. There will always be those who have more and those who have less. But does the gulf have to be so large? Will it mean less crime and murder (and I accept that these will always be with us)? If you can show me where it has been truly tried, then I can answer – but it has NOT truly been tried, as human nature stands in the way. I just know with every fibre of my being that it is morally and humanly wrong to kill – whether by private or state-sanctioned murder. Remember that not so many years ago, hungry children were put to death by hanging on the tree at Tyeburn in East London for the crime of stealing a crust of bread (not to mention what they did to slaves) – and at the time most people agreed that this should be so. But society changed, under pressure – and so must we, or perish – like in the French and Russian Revolutions. We look on that society as being barbaric in its punishments. How, I wonder, will future generations view us? Barbaric?


  32. @Raymond

    Nice question. Makes my point… and what the hell were they thinking? Certainly not straight. Wonder why?


  33. When one is opposed to the death penalty, it is often a principled position; that principle will sometimes be tested, especially when a heinous crime has been committed, which is met with understandable public outrage.

    I have always been of the view, that “legalized killing” is an option that denotes failure in society and not success. I will not use use the term alleged killer to make a plea against capital punishment. Those found guilty in a properly administered court of law are just that guilty… as charged. It would be silly of me to imply “all” found guilty in a court have committed the offence as charged, when clearly they have been miscarriages of justice. Those should be recinded as quickly as possible.

    Capital punishment brings into sharp focus the “sanctity” of human life and not taking it upon ourselves; or delegating the authority to others to violate it.

    To ask how would you feel if it was your son, daughter, wife or mother who was killed…..is not a reasonable question to ask. For that reason Magistrates and Judges are required to stand down from cases where there is even a “tenuous” connection between them and the accused, thus ensuring the required level of “emotional detachment”.


  34. Amused wrote “The main source of murders is among the have-nots and those who, despite their best efforts, will probably never have. We need to strive (and this is simplistic, I know) towards greater equality and understanding. It is not a finite process, but an infinite process โ€“ the work will never be done, but if we do what we can to assist it, just maybe we will see a decrease in murders. ”

    And I agree with this statement quoted above.

    BUT I dont know what you saw in my post to lead you to believe that I am in favour of the death penalty. I am not in favour of the death penalty and I said so just 2 or 3 weeks ago on this same blog. In fact I would have to ask to be excused from a jury if the offense were a capital one.

    I disagree with you however that we can prevent murder.

    But I agree that there are certain things that we can do to reduce the murder rate. But we will NEVER eliminate murder entirely.

    I am not too sure either that poor people are more murderous that rich or middle class people. I know that people who have access to first class legal representation are less likely to be convicted of murder even when they have caused the loss of a life and rich and middle class people are less likely to be executed if the jurisdiction has a death penalty.

    But the world is composed mostly of poor people so of course most of the murderers are poor. But I have never seen any study wkich shows that on a per capita basis poor people commit more murders than middle class or rich people.

    If you know of such a study I’d be happy if you wold point me to it.


  35. @J

    You must be aware that if you have money which can buy the best legal representation it can buy another flavour of justice which anecdotally puts wealthy accuse at an advantage.


  36. Stupseeeeeeeeeee, a lotta long talk, empty rhetoric n hyperbole.
    I seein too much empathy fa dese heartless murderers amongst us. wunna feel sorry fa dem but dem doan feel sorry fa a boy as demonstrated by dem. stupseeeeeeeeee
    It in got nutton to do wid love, compassion, poverty, duncy-ness. Stop looking for excuses for dese criminals and let justice prevail.

    Yardbroom
    Not only Judges n Magistrates but the jury also. Conflict of interest.

    David
    And nothing wrong with you being ambivalent on the subject but I will not be swayed.
    I cannot run with the hare n hunt with the hound. Deceit will get me no where.
    I have made my point.


  37. this is a pointless discussion topic


  38. @Bonny

    This is not a black or white issue made so by how individuals are socialized. Perhaps the point which resonates most is that raised by Yardbroom. To what extent do we value the sanctity of life that it is abhorred by all* in society.


  39. Mr.David
    To quote Anonymous @ 1:29, ‘this is a pointless discussion topic’. We will get nowhere on this one.
    You hold fast to your views and I will do likewise.
    Cheerio.

    What is your take on casinos? Are you for or against?


  40. Hi Bonny Peppa
    Quote” I seein too much empathy fa dese heartless murderers amongst us wunna feel sorry fu dem but dem doan feel sorry fa a boy as demonstrated by dem. stupseeeeeeeeeee”

    I have “no” empathy for murderers, neither do I feel sorry for them. My sorrow is extended towards the innocent person whose life has been taken and the bereaved who feel the pain of their loss.

    My position is based solely on the:

    “sanctity of human life”

    That position does not mean your view is any less tenable; neither is it less reasoned, it only demonstrates we will not touch hands on this one.


  41. Yardbroom
    ‘sanctity of human life’.
    What punishment should be meted out to the heartless murdered who kills without cause or sanctity for another life? What you think should be his punishment Sir? Most sagacious one here on BU, in my opinion. LOL


  42. Bonny you are correct we are all entitled to our views just as anonymous is entitled to his/hers. No issue is pointless in our view and that is our view as well.


  43. I was trying to remain silent on this topic because a lot of this is just hot air. All those who are against hanging a murderer, would pay someone to take out their family easy so.I’ve sat on a number of murder cases as a juror, the family of the victim have to go through the whole murder again and in the end for that murderer to go spend a few years in then return to society and live a full life while every year the victim family are at the gravesight taking flowers. I heard of a case with one of our notorious murderers in prison who bodyslam a prison officer one day and remarked that he was sorry he wasn’t dead because if they condemn him again, they can only hang him once. They are many prison officers who are afraid of some of the condemned prisoners in jail right now. There may have been the occasion where a police officer on duty shot the wrong person; should guns be taken from the officers? There are times when a reckless driver kills an innocent pedestrian; should we ban all drivers? We take innocent young children from their parents’ home and send them to war to kill other innocent people, while the ones who declare the war are well guarded in their fortresses, yet most of us see nothing wrong with that. Instead, if one of these soldiers was successful in taking out a large amount of the “enemy”, he/she is deemed a hero. Are we talking about different humans or different lives? It is simple, on the law books of this country, when someone commits a murder, the penalty is death, if it is manslaughter, the penalty varies.What will eventually happen is that if we keep patting these criminals on their backs, the victims’ family will soon start taking the law in their own hands. Are you telling me that a criminal who kills for money,( an that is possible in B’dos right now) and is caught, should just go prison and live off the taxpayers? Give me a break


  44. We are to note two points:

    1. The obligation under the treaty which Barbados signed willingly under the Arthur government makes it almost impossible to hang anyone.

    2. The discussion in light of the above becomes an academic/esoteric one but important nevertheless for the opportunity is gives for having a public discourse on issues which we feel strongly on.


  45. Hi Bonny Peppa
    I believe life imprisonment should be imposed, and that means between 20-30 years imprisonment depending on mitigating factors, if they can be pleaded in submission by the defence.

    Some will say why should society pay the price in keeping them in detention. I would say society always has to pay a price to be an “ordered” society.

    Bonny, you also believe in the “sanctity of human life”
    that is not only the feeling of Yardbroom, you feel the same way as well. It is because you think that sanctity should not be violated is the reason you have given such force to your point of view.


  46. So what do we do with criminals who are cannot be rehabilatated ?


  47. It has happened in Jamaica, in Guyana, then T&T, next in line is Barbados. With the influx of immigrants from all over the caribbean to Barbados and with us so sympathetic towards a diehard criminal element that breeding in this country, within another decade Barbados murder rate is going to be on par with those afore mentioned countries. May God have mercy on this Blessed rock our fore father worked so hard to build.


  48. There was a time, no so long ago that Tobago used to be an island I liked to vacation. It was so peaceful, people used to leave their house opened and just told their neighbour to close it if it started to rain. Today Tobagonians have wrought iron bars and alarm systems installed. When I asked what happened, the answer given is the influx of migrants have spoilt the country. Murders are on the increase and no hanging. It seems the criminal has more RIGHTS than the victim or the victim’s family. We are surrendering more to the “bad boys” in our society, one day we would see our mistake.
    Treaties are made to be broken, if the majority of the voting public demand the return of hanging, government would have no choice but to break the treaty and re-introduce the death penalty or resign from office. I don’t think the voting public realise the power they have. How can over 60% of the voting public wants the death penalty but a few “big-head” men around a table wants to tell them, it can’t happen?


  49. Scout
    Awwwwwwww, a sight for sore eyes. Thanks for returning. We shall have a great feast for the prodigal has returned. Welcome back, my good n faithful son. (drum rolllllllllll)

    Yardbroom
    And when the sanctity of a human life is exterminated at the hands of a ruthless, heartless, cowardly, spiteful vagabond what do we do?
    Are you aware of the fact that some ring-neck vagabonds don’t mind spending an eternity in prison? At least they’re provided with food,clothing n shelter free of cost to them, not the taxpayers.
    They will also be allowed visits.
    Would you feel the same if one of your loved ones suffered a similar fate at the hands of these uncouth criminals Yardie? A thief enters your home, kills you, rapes n murders your wife n children. What would you be asking for from the grave if you had the power? Would you be asking for leniency or the death penalty? Think, then reply. Honestly Yardbroom , the most audacious and respected member of BU.

    islandgal
    what do we do with the ones that are beyond rehabilitation? bound n gag dem n pelt dem in de careenage. LoL


  50. @Bonny ‘Crusoe
    Hope your sentiments are this placid should a heartless killer come a calling’

    Huh? What did I say that was placid? My comment on the death penalty was not a for or against, only a statement of fact re the international conventions.

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