The recent earthquake in Haiti which devastated the capital Port-au-Prince has sent shockwaves across the globe. In an era of instant communication, the horrific pictures of the carnage afflicted on Haiti has been emotional for many who have witnessed it. Some say hundreds of people are dead or injured, others say hundreds of thousands. Only time will tell the extent of the injuries and damage to humans and property. The devastation has been enough to force many to ask, why Haiti. This is a country which has had to endure perennial suffering whether manmade or acts of God.
BU is heartened by the global response to the cry for help by Haiti. In the past similar humanitarian relief efforts have been hampered by corruption in the distribution efforts of aid. We hope that those responsible in administering the relief efforts in Haiti will do what is right.
Now is an opportunity for the Caricom region to respond as a region to what is required to effectively help Haiti. It is good we have a few regional Prime Ministers flying into Haiti to see and hear for themselves what is required to support the humanitarian effort. Is this a PR exercise done to satisfy our obligations to a regional member? Time will tell!
Already the catastrophe in Haiti has revealed how religion can expose the ignorance of some people. It has been reported that Pat Robertson who is an American Christian televangelist has blamed Haiti’s pact with Satan as the cause for its suffering. We are flabbergasted that a man of such influence and suggested intellect would be driven to spout such bovine excrement.
On behalf of the BU household we hope and pray that those behind the relief effort will be able to mobilize quickly and to do what is required to relieve the suffering to those who are alive and to bring dignity to those who have died so tragically.
Haiti I am Sorry – David Rudder
618 responses to “Haiti We Are Sorry”
..and while you are at it , explain to me how can an occupying force in a country claim self defense…..in commonsense terms if possible.
Techie
Are you saying that Israel is an occupying force? LOL?
Are you saying that the Palestinians had a right to send the rockets into Israel?
Do you understand the history of Israel ma friend?
Tell me the history of the Palestinians. When did thier history start?
Tell me the state of Israel before 1948, man?
Tell us what the Palestinians did with the Gaza strip that was given to them in 2005?
Why you gwine buse the man, man. LOL Is he telling lies? LOL
@GP…
It is sad to me that someone of your character always runs to the defense of Zoe.
He may rightly divide the word when it comes to the Bible but when it comes to humanity ..he want busing!
Now…are you saying Israel is NOT an occupying force?
The other questions you asked I will pass on the answer for now because it will most likely spin into another Biblical argument of which I have no stomach for at this time….. so reel in your bait ’cause I aint biting.
Only the dead have seen the end of war and it is in this context that I ask my questions. Who is right or who is wrong does not stop the killing and the suffering of innocent people on either side. Whether Haitians were God fearing people or voo-doo believers does not, at this point change the fact that hundreds of thousands are dead with many more suffering.
What Zoe (and you if you continue to defend him) fails to understand is that compassion is needed in these situations, not to stand by and claim prophecy, for if the prophecy is to be fulfilled, it will but in the meantime (NOW) lets just deal with the issue at hand without the constant bombardment of fire and brimstone rhetoric and obvious agendas.
@ Technician // January 18, 2010 at 9:46 PM
You said:-“What Zoe (and you if you continue to defend him) fails to understand is that compassion is needed in these situations, not to stand by and claim prophecy, for if the prophecy is to be fulfilled, it will but in the meantime (NOW) lets just deal with the issue at hand without the constant bombardment of fire and brimstone rhetoric and obvious agendas.”
Techie,
I don’t think any rational person would disagree with you on this statement.
Naturally, we would all like to think that things could move a lot faster to alleviate the great amount of suffering being experienced in Haiti now. Furthermore, I know that we would have all preferred that this disaster had not occurred at all!
Oopps, sorry that last Annoymous post was mine.
Techie ma boy
It is meet and right that I defend Zoe because he does indeed rightly divide the word of Truth. Why buse the man, when there are some here that will tell you the man ought to be forgiven 70 x 7! How ya like ma?
And I wasn’t baiting you man. I was just asking you if you know the relevant history of the people since 1948, and the physical state of the area for centuries, and the fact that no Palestinians claimed or occupied the land for centuries or even millennia. A lot of folk know that but refused to admit it. LOL. This is no Biblical argument. This is history! LOL!
Re Whether Haitians were God fearing people or voo-doo believers does not, at this point change the fact that hundreds of thousands are dead with many more suffering.
I have deliberately not commented much on Haiti. Death and suffering entered the world with sin. Men will be suffering and dying, whether we like it or not.
So I don’t get so emotional as many who got all emotional this last week. I am not dead yet but I have personally suffered much for the last 14 years and unnecessarily so.
Re Who is right or who is wrong does not stop the killing and the suffering of innocent people on either side.
That might very well be true, but those who are involved have strong views on what or who are right…. and they will continue thier struggles.
I am not involved but I am confident about what is going to happen. So I don’t get emotional about it. I just share my view, which I think is sound exegesis. Also I just watch and read with great amusement what people write.
Whether I defend Zoe or not has nothing to do with my understanding Sir. LOL
Whether we are compassionate or not, you really don’t know. You only know that we are interested in prophecy and that we comment on the Word and prophecy consistently.
And I will continue to comment thereon whether you or others think I am compassionate or not. LOL
You see I know that there is more to compassion than just talk! Ah lie?
What really is the issue at hand? What can you or I do to deal with it? Either in Haiti or the Middle East?
You certainly have not heard any constant bombardment of fire and brimstone rhetoric from me. But I will support any one that teaches the Word of God in season and out of season and is bold enough to do so…..as long as they are rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
I don’t have any agenda you know. When I have a spare moment, I share a joke or an opinion, and I do that sincerely, and honestly.
And you know what I like about Zoe too? He does not wilt or run away because you guys hate him and keep pummeling away at him. LOL. And he usually brings some structure sequence and substance in his posts—– which is more than I can say for most of those who post on BU. LOL
And I wont stop defending him. LOL
@ GP..
Ever heard this?…”Don”t hate the Player….Hate the Game”….. Well that is where I stand.
You have lost me there. Sir.
Green Monkey
Thirty years ago Haiti imported no rice. Today Haiti imports nearly all its rice. Though Haiti was the sugar growing capital of the Caribbean, it now imports sugar as well. Why? The US and the US dominated world financial institutions – the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank – forced Haiti to open its markets to the world. Then the US dumped millions of tons of US subsidized rice and sugar into Haiti – undercutting their farmers and ruining Haitian agriculture. By ruining Haitian agriculture, the US has forced Haiti into becoming the third largest world market for US rice. Good for US farmers, bad for Haiti
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don’t know enough to comment but google throws up these sites when rice and sugar output in Haiti are entered in the search.
Here is an extract from the article on Rice.
“Up until the 1980s, Haitian rice farmers produced the great majority of the rice consumed in Haiti.
This situation which changed rapidly in the mid-1980s intensified dramatically in the mid-1990s.
During this time period, total rice consumption increased in response to population growth, which was to be expected.
Also during this time period, the percentage of rice imports consumed increased and overshot domestically produced rice in the mid-1990s (see Graph 1 and Table 1). US rice imports which are called “Miami rice” (because rice, like most US exports to Haiti are shipped from the major port in Miami, Florida) now make up the majority of all rice consumption in Haiti”
http://www1.american.edu/TED/haitirice.htm
As far as sugar goes, here is what one link claims.
“Sugar was another cash crop with a long history in Haiti. Columbus brought sugarcane to present-day Haiti on his second voyage to Hispaniola, and sugar rapidly became the colony’s most important cash crop.
After 1804, production never returned to preindependence levels, but sugar production and low-level exports continued.
Unlike the system in other Caribbean countries, sugar in Haiti was a cash crop raised by peasants rather than by large-scale plantations.
The sugar harvest dipped to under 4 million tons by the early 1970s, but it rebounded to nearly 6 million tons of cane by the middle of the decade with a sharp increase in the world price of the commodity.
Lower world prices and structural problems combined to cause a drop in sugar output in the 1980s; by the end of the decade, sugarcane covered fewer than 114,000 hectares of the coastal plains, and it yielded fewer than 4.5 million tons annually.
Further expansion of the sugar industry faced serious deeprooted obstacles.
For example, the production cost of Haitian sugar was three times more than the world price in the 1980s.
Shifts in the world sugar market, caused mainly by the international substitution of corn-based fructose for sugarcane, exerted further pressure on Haitian producers.
One result of this situation was the practice of importing sugar, which was then reexported to the United States under the Haitian sugar quota.
Reductions in Haiti’s quota during the 1980s, however, limited exchanges of this sort.
Total sugar exports dropped from 19,200 tons in 1980 to 6,500 tons in 1987. In 1981, 1982, and 1988 Haiti exported no sugar.
Haiti’s four sugar mills closed temporarily on several occasions during the decade (see Manufacturing , this ch.). The oldest mill, the Haitian American Sugar Company (HASCO), was the only plant that maintained a large cane plantation.
Realizing the dim future for sugar, outside development agencies proposed alternatives to sugar, such as soybeans, for Haiti’s plains. ”
http://www.photius.com/countries/haiti/economy/haiti_economy_crops.html
@ Technician, Jan 18, @ 12:09AM
“Funny how they (Israeli’s) run to Haiti with their doctors and rescue workers…hmmmm don’t these same doctors take the same oath as other doctors world wide or does it only matter when the victims are non Arabs.”
“Where are they when buildings are coming down on the heads of Palestinian people less than 100 miles away.”
“Your HYPOCRISY has no bounds!!!”
TECHNICIAN, you are a FOOL!
First, I’ve just quoted your stupid statement and foolish question above.
You may have commonsense to look left and right when crossing the road, even a dumb Dog does that! BUT, when it comes to matters of this nature, your ARE grossly IGNORANT, unread, unlearned, duped by the international media blitz over the decades re Israel/Palestine, who for the most part are ANTI-Israel, and like YOU are IGNORANT to the Historical facts and evidence concerning Israel’s History, for OVER 3,500 years. You DON’T have a CLUE to these historic FACTS!
Again, YOUR stupid statement (above) and equally stupid question, shows how densely ignorant you ARE about WAR, verses the dire situation in Haiti, an earthquake ravaged people.
Now, here ARE some facts as taken from Wikipedia re Israeli doctors and the wonderful, humanitarian work they do.
“Hillel Yaffe Medical Center, a major hospital on the western edge of Hadera, Israel.”
“A diverse group of doctors and nurses work at the Hillel Yaffe Medical Center, ARABS and JEWS, natives and immigrants. The patients also reflect the diversity of the REGIONs polulation, urban people along side rural farmers., natives and immigrants, JEWS and ARABS.”
“The hospital thus serves an an example of peaceful coexistence between ARABS and JEWS, and of absorbing immigrants fron the Soviet Union, Ethiopia and other lands.” (Wikipedia)
Save a Child Heart (SACH) is a HUMAITARIAN organization with a mission to improve the quality of pediatric cardiac care for children from developing countries who suffer from heart disease, and who CANNOT get adequate care in their home countries.”
“As of the summer of 2009, SACH has brought more than 2,100 children to Israel from countries that include Ethiopia, Veitnam, Jordan, Moldova, Tanzania, Russia, the Philippins, Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya, Angola, Iraq, Haiti, St. Vincent, Trinidad, Ecudor, Mauritania, Senegal, Ivory Coast, Siera Leone, Unganda, Congo, Zimbabe, Zanzibar, Ruanda, Somalia, Eritrea, Sri Lanka, China, Kazakhstan, Romania, as well as Gaza, and the West Bank (The Palestinian Territories) and about HALF the patients treated over the years are ARABS from the West Bank, GAZA and IRAQ, and the other half from the countries listed. SACH was founded in 1996 and is based at the Edith Wolfson Medical Center near Tel Aviv, Israel.” (Wikipedia).
Technician, you have NO idea regarding the TRUTH about Israel.
Israel’s land, that they went back home to in 1948, for the first time in 2,000 years after been exiled, scattered throughout the NATIONS of the world, WAS unanimously MANDATED by the then League of Nations, the precusor to the UN. You obviously have NOT read nor studied these historic facts and evidence, and like others on BU, talk a load of CRAP on matters that YOU are grossly ignorant of!!!
BTW, I am extremely happy at the amazing rescue and relief operations going on in Haiti, I would LOVE for them to be looked after, and to prosper.
They have gone through their own Hell, the reasons why, are very complex, not to mention that their VERY own in our life time, have STOLEN and ROBBED them as well, of God’s knows how many BILLIONS, that should have gone to rebuilding Haiti. Papa Doc and his son alone, are estimated to have stashed away in the vacinity of $900 Million. Imagine what that could have done for Haiti.
Clearly, what France and the USA did ages ago WAS criminal!
Again, as I’ve said before, SIN has NO Colour, Black Haitians stole from Black Haitians, not just the white man. And look now what expense the USA is going to, to help the Haitians, and many, many White based Churchs and organizations. Don’t be colour blinded!
@ Zoe….
I will remain Ignorant, a fool,worse than a dumb dog etc etc etc.
Sticks and stones guy……..
I am happy and contented though…are you?
Bajans should prepare for their own disaster which is not to far off. Our problem is that we would not recieve the same assistance that Haiti is getting because we are considered a budding “first world” country. We would be faced with having to accomodate many non-nationals and we are not in a position to do that right now nor in the near future. Did our P.M really stop and analyse what he would do if such a disaster struck Barbados?
Okay:
I took time out on this thread to get on with some serious proposals [already circulated] — based on materials put up in this thread and largely ignored in the haste to bash at Bible believing Christians — and other things.
Came by just now to see how things have gone since Sunday Morning; only to see someone hiding behind the veil “Anonymous” slandering me, 2:55 pm Sunday Jan 17:
Anonymous, you need to check out facts and consult basic broughtupcy on fairness before making remarks like that.
Cf my very first interventions in this thread, specifically here: Jan 15, 6:53 am.
I corrected Mr Robertson’s outdated remarks (based on the common view that one can get simply by talking to many Haitians . . . and one that came to my attention from Christian uni students who had visited Haiti in the mid 1980’s and done just that) in light of more serious research and broader understanding of Animism and its interaction with the Christian faith in many contexts dating to the Acts of the Apostles, and as highlighted by Don Richardson in his now classic Eternity in their Hearts.
Now, let’s see if you have the decency to apologise for slanderous misinformation that has far less basis than Mr Robertson’s remarks.
Concerning Prof Beckles’ remarks above:
a –> Observe my own excerpting of the UK Guardian article, 4:24 am Jan 16 above.
b –> The just linked will show that, while I join with Sir Hilary in identifying France as a key antagonist, one that willfully burdened Haiti with an unsupportable debt (negotiated under the guns of 17 French men of war in the first instance); I think we need to realise the import of the wider context that France probably also felt responsible for unleashing what had become a strategic base for exporting revolution [i.e. Bolivar], and set out to cripple it.
c –> Hard-earned lesson from history: if you want a revolution to succeed in a hostile world, don’t radicalise it as a base for exporting radical revolution.
(The Americans exported ideas and examples, not revolutions. Attempted revolutions in Ireland, Poland and France did not receive American official logistical support. In its time, Geneva was similarly a place of refuge — speaks volumes on how repressive Europe [and the wider world for that matter] was in C16! — and of ferment for then liberating ideas, not for export of revolution. The same holds for the Netherlands after their hard-won independence from Spain. “The pen is mightier than the sword.”)
d –> On the attempted incriminating remarks on the US Independence and Constitution, Sir Hilary seems to stumble. NONE of the US Founders and Framers ever actively defended or justified slavery as a good or desirable thing in itself. Indeed, in the original draft of the Declaration of independence (1776), Jefferson — a hopelessly indebted slave owner himself — attacked the trade as monstrous.
(The trade was the first target of abolitionists, who calculated that this was both the least defensible aspect and the root without which the institution would have to reform itself, then eventually dry up. They realistically estimated that a direct assault would fail given the balance of forces and ideologies and so went for gradualist strategies.)
e –> Given the sad facts of dog eat dog life for states in C18 and the need for unity to survive in a potentially very hostile world [note, Haiti at first split into two states, then fused into one under Boyer in 1818, then in 1822 managed to intervene in the developing independence of what is now the DR, by marching in with 50,000 troops and taking control . . . relinquished in 1843/4], the US Constitutional framers of 1787 compromised and set a 20 year constitutional clock on abolition of the slave trade for 1808.
f –> Similarly, contrary to much current rhetoric, the premising of Congressional representation in part on 3/5 of non-free population was inserted by Northerners, to hamper the use of inflated slave numbers to lock in slaveowner agendas through disproportionate numbers of reps from slave owning states in the then future US legislature.
g –> As to the Napoleonic re-institution of slavery, it did happen, and it did garner support from other European states (including enemy ones).
[ . . . ]
h –> So, indeed — and as I repeatedly noted above — external elites had a definite and highly negative role to play in the sad condition of Haiti in our time. And, the US intervention in the early C20 was at best a mixed blessing (it did help stabilise the situation and provided some infrastructure) but it is undeniable that the mentality was semi-colonial at best, and in part driven by the “need” to see Haiti pay its debts, however acquired. (There had been considerable borrowing in part to pay for the reparations to France.)
j –> On the other hand, it is a duty of a distinguished academic to move to the point of balance, rather than to play the advocate (which is far more understandable in the up and coming young scholar).
k –> And so, I think Professor Beckles should balance his remarks with a due attention to the problems inflicted on Haiti by its internal elites, and as a consequence of irresponsible and damaging ideas, behaviour and attitudes by the masses as well; however understandable such were and are.
l –> On this, I do believe that he example and pattern of the Christian C18 – 19 Evangelical Dissenters starting with Liele and co who through their efforts — and in the teeth of opposition from the elites in Jamaica and Britain — helped build education, liberating and ideas and community based leadership — and then helped foster the creation of an independent land-owning free peasantry through the Free Villages movement [which extended across the Caribbean, e.g. in Antigua and Guyana as well] has something to teach us.
m –> And we should not underestimate the sad implications of local looter mis-leadership like the Duvaliers, who indisputably did exploit the animist beliefs of the masses to foster their control and oppression. indeed, the Duvaliers plainly had “a pact with the devils,” and seem to have used it to build up a looter state that looted Haiti and the international aid community of up to US$ 900 millions, of which I gather something like US$ 6 millions has been recoverable. (Nor, sadly, is such looter behaviour an exception. Their name is Legion . . . and just may include some icons of the fashionable Caribbean left who shall be nameless. Read and weep this [very familiar number . . . ] estimate based in part on “his partial ownership of state enterprises, among them the Havana Convention Center, the Cimex retail conglomerate and Medicuba” (but perhaps should also include “Cubatabaco, Artex, Cubacatricos, Cubatecnica, Gaviota, Acemex, Cubatur, Antex, Caribat, Cubatur, and many more”), fellow Caribbeans.)
n –> Nor, on the recent Haiti disaster, where the body count looks headed well north of 100k, should we principally blame external elites for corrupt construction practice; the specific physical cause of so horrendous a casualty figure.
o –> If you still doubt me on this, just look at the full size version of this post- quake aerial shot of downtown Port-au-Prince, comparing the side by side buildings and their fates.
( Click on the full resolution link, then magnify and inspect to your heart’s content. Compare the demolished telephone co building with the blue roof on the ground and the fort-like seven-storey building to its right in the shot: note how that building stands on columns on the ground floor — i.e. it is a classic reinforced concrete multi-storey structure — and stood the test of a mag 7, only 10 miles away. It may notbe a pretty building and needs a paint job, but it is a strong one and proof that strong buildings can be built in Haiti. the Hotel-like building tot he left and behind the telco building is a similar case, and so are some of the more modest commercial buildings. Even a few buildings with partial structural failures and small collapses show that total collapse was not inevitable.)
p –> Remember, this is a major commercial street, with buildings put up by the well off, not the poor. Some stand the test, some fail. The difference needs to be explained. (And we all should download a copy of that RC manual from World Housing Encyclopedia.)
q –> So we come back to the Rom 1 – 2 issue of what happens when we turn our backs on the truth and the right and the duty we know or should know [starting with conscience and going on to broughtupcy, counsels of commonsense and basic wisdom by conscientious people, and the word of valid prophets, oral or written], and defiantly do the wrong.
r –> Namely, self- and community- destructive behaviour, precisely what God, who built a morally ordered cosmos, warned us about in his often much-despised Word.
s –> And so we come to the point that the normal pattern of God’s judgement over nations is by consequences of moral or immoral or amoral action, especially through those who bear leadership and power. Good, God-fearing leadership brings blessing, and rebellious, corrupt leadership brings first active suppression of the corrective voice of the prophet, then leads nations on to destruction.
______________
A lesson of both Scripture and history, which we — sadly — again see playing out before our eyes. And not just in that horrific picture as just linked on the consequences of corrupt building construction.
G’day.
D
PS: Can we move on now, to serious thinking about how we may be able to help our sister Caribbean nation recover and rebuild? (Cf my already linked at the top of this double post.)
PPS: Zoe, please tone down the rhetorical voltage.
See image of downtown Port-au-Prince after the quake. Thanks to Dictionary.
Much airplay has been given to the comments by televangelist Pat Robertson, BU has previously likened his comment to bovine excrement. The reality however exist that many in the region and afar have given credence to the belief that Haiti is being punished because of a pact made with the devil. Like everything else the only way to clarify or demystify is to engage all parties to the argument. Against this background we have agreed to publish a document authored by Bishop Seale of the Evangelical Association of the Caribbean.
BU continues to aspire to an ideal that the BU family can engage in debate, robust at times but with mutual respect. The hope remains elusive to date but we continue to hope against all hope.
@GP
“Whether I defend Zoe or not has nothing to do with my understanding Sir. LOL ”
Come on GP, If you defend the actions of a criminal, what does that say about your understanding? I have to agree with Technician.
@Zoe
“TECHNICIAN, you are a FOOL!”
Am I to believe that christians have no discipline? I believe that all of us here try to refrain from insulting one another and calling one another degrading names during debate/discussion… all except the christian called Zoe followed closely by GP at times.
The thing is, when I look back over GP’s contribution, these insult only started coming from him after this same Zoe started. I have to agree with Technician again.
Well! Well! Well! Can there be some order and respect from that quarter. Is that too much to ask a christian?
You will notice that for a long time I have been writing christianity with a common “c”. Let it be known that I do so in protest of the disrespect coming from that quarter. The day that the disrespect ends I will revert to a capital.
David:
Thanks for the posts of key informative documents.
I note, again, that the belief that the 1791 pact was a pact with the Devil has currency not just regionally and internationally, but also — certainly over decades (I first heard it some 25 years ago, from fellow uni students who had been talking seriously with people on the ground in Haiti) — in Haiti as well.
Gelin and Seale are making corrective remarks based on historical research and rethinking, as I have cited and as you have linked.
And, again, I invite commenters at BU to shift focus to the urgent need for transformation as that picture so eloquently and sadly documents.
For, whatever historical and current part of Haiti’s woes are due to international elites and their sins; building shoddy buildings in what is plainly a central business district is directly traceable to local contractors who had enough resources to know and do better, and to the corrupt or incompetent inspectors and financers of the buildings.
To LOCAL relatively wealthy elites, in other words.
And it is shoddy construction that is plainly to blame for the sharp difference in performance of buildings in essentially the4 same location under the same4 forces.
G’day
D
@David
In looking at the photo provided by Dictionary, it is amazing that this sample contains buildings still standing although damaged. What does this say about construction standards?
Compare this with an aerial view of China where there was no charge of improper building codes that I could remember:
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12460&tid=441&cid=4343&ct=61&article=2202
Onlookers,
A footnote:
The empty turnabout rhetoric resorted to by ROK — I won’t bother with the childish resort to willfully disrespectful non-capitalisation — is sadly eloquent testimony to his refusal to recognise that he has resorted to unrepentant slanders and to propagation of ill-grounded, grossly disrespectful myths INTENDED to discredit the Christian Faith.
And above, when he was corrected on the merits, he resorted to trying to twist correction and warning on predictable consequences of verbal and attitudinal behaviour — slander, promotion of ill-founded myths, closed mindedness [a mind padlocked against the gospel and the scriptures as well as related evidence 30 years ago, by his own confession], etc — into imagined threats.
So, while participants on all sides do now need to calm down the rhetorical tone, indeed, that is just the point: all sides.
(And we should note that he tone problem is in the main a willful product of the rhetorical strategy of ever so many objectors to the Gospel, to use the trifecta fallacy stratagem: distractive red herrings, led out to caricatured strawman arguments soaked in slanderous ad hominems, and ignited through incendiary rhetoric to poison, polarise, cloud and confuse the atmosphere. As can be repeatedly shown from several recent threads.)
Let us hope that this thread — bearing in mind the potential influential reach of BU (starting with ROK himself as a national thus regional NGO leader . . . ) can turn its focus to doing something positive, such as pulling together creative possibilities for the way forward for Haiti and the rest of the region.
Surely, we can do better than the above shows!
G’day
D
PS: ROK needs to know that in China, there was indeed an issue over shoddy construction as a significant contributory factor to the damage resulting from earthquakes. And, that more broadly, corruption has played a major role in several international scandals involving Chinese manufactures and exports.
I therefore cite, from a Globe and Mail article that looks at rebuilding in Haiti and draws a specific parallel to recent events in China, thusly:
Looks like we need to ask the Chinese for help!
ROK
Compare this with an aerial view of China where there was no charge of improper building codes that I could remember
************************************
Because you can’t remember doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I saw many reports where the local population especially those people who had lost their only child (due to China’s one child policy) complained of shoddy building standards in schools and other public buildings. The Chinese authorities squelched the protests and the rest of the world quickly forgot after all the Olympics were on the horizon…..
ROK
The buildings of Incas (more correctly Quechan Indians) could and did withstand earthquakes of any significant magnitude for centuries.
Today it is called building to a code but it is an expedient people learn who live in environments which are prone to disaster.
Alaska has many more earthquakes than most places on earth.
It has volcanos and tsunamis.
But not many people live there so the disasters which occur are not spoken of as disasters, rather as wonders of nature.
It is a fact that an earthquake has already (1842) destroyed Port au Prince.
Building to a code is best practice.
Here is a picture from Katrina!!
http://www.doobybrain.com/2008/09/15/the-last-house-standing/
http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/bestpractices/kat_ms.shtm
…. not everybody builds to codes or insists their house meets and exceeds those codes, even in America.
As you see in the photo however, it helps!!
PPS: FYI, two updating links. (i) An all around discussion on CBN and Robertson’s remarks, with more from Gelin and others. (ii) A news item on what Gelin calls the one steadily positive influence in Haiti’s recent history. (Observe how Gelin also documents, almost en passant, that the curse understanding of 1791 has had a strong presence in the Haitian nation, even among Haitian leaders.)
Thank you Zoe. This is precisely the point I made on this blog over the weekend. “Papa Doc and his son alone, are estimated to have stashed away in the vicinty of $900 million. Imagine what that could have done for Haiti.” Profound, indeed!
These are the last 25 notifications of earthquakes around the world that I received from USGS.
The small one in the North Atlantic is just east of the Dominican Republic but after shocks seem to be subsiding.
As you can see the earth is a busy place for earthquakes and nowhere on the various plate boundaries is spared.
When I first started looking at the data I used to think California, Central and South America were the major locations.
They are not, ….. but can be any day.
USGS ENS 2010-01-19 10:33:49 (Mb 4.8) PHILIPPINE ISLANDS REGION 8.3 127.4 (1de6f) 5:18 AM 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 08:08:47 (Mb 5.0) SOLOMON ISLANDS -10.0 161.0 (1de6f) 12:48 AM 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 07:59:44 (Ml 4.8) NORTH ISLAND OF NEW ZEALAND -37.1 177.0 (1de6f) 12:18 AM 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 07:06:37 (Mb 4.7) PANAMA-COSTA RICA BORDER REGION 8.6 -82.7 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 06:09:26 (Mb 4.9) TAIWAN 23.8 121.7 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 05:36:54 (Mb 4.6) MENDOZA, ARGENTINA -32.4 -69.9 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-19 00:17:50 (Mb 5.5) SOLOMON ISLANDS -9.0 158.1 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 23:11:06 (Mb 5.2) SOLOMON ISLANDS -9.1 157.9 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 23:01:35 (Mcd 3.8) ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII 19.2 -155.5 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 22:31:00 (Mb 5.3) SOLOMON ISLANDS -8.8 157.5 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 22:22:19 (Mb 5.0) OFFSHORE ANTOFAGASTA, CHILE -21.7 -70.3 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 21:35:29 (Mb 5.2) TONGA -18.4 -173.4 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 15:56:11 REVISED: (Mb 5.4) GREECE 38.5 22.0 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Read USGS ENS 2010-01-18 17:22:41 (Mcd 3.7) NORTH ATLANTIC OCEAN 19.3 -68.7 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 16:09:15 REVISED: (Mw 5.7) SANTA CRUZ ISLANDS -12.5 166.2 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 16:09:21 (Mb 5.2) SANTA CRUZ ISLANDS -12.5 166.1 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 14:27:34 (Mb 5.1) SOUTH SANDWICH ISLANDS REGION -56.0 -27.6 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 15:56:12 (Mb 5.0) GREECE 38.5 22.0 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 15:40:32 (Mw 6.0) NEAR COAST OF GUATEMALA 13.8 -90.2 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 12:28:36 (Mb 5.5) SAN JUAN, ARGENTINA -31.3 -68.6 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 12:19:12 (Mb 5.1) BANDA SEA -6.3 130.6 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 08:41:08 (Ml 4.1) NEW MEXICO 36.9 -104.7 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 08:18:25 (Mb 5.3) BALI SEA -6.3 114.3 (1de6f) Mon, 1/18/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 06:00:28 (Mb 5.2) SANTA CRUZ ISLANDS -11.5 166.3 (1de6f) Sun, 1/17/10 6KB
Unread USGS ENS 2010-01-18 03:51:01 (Mb 5.0) SOUTHERN EAST PACIFIC RISE -34.9 -108.6 (1de6f) Sun, 1/17/10 6KB
http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_caribbean-at-risk-of-more-large-quakes-like-haiti-mega-earthquake-report_1336185
@GP
“Whether I defend Zoe or not has nothing to do with my understanding Sir. LOL ”
Come on GP, If you defend the actions of a criminal, what does that say about your understanding? I have to agree with Technician.
LOL
I notice that in his last post, as usual he was again telling the historical truth and giving facts.
Despite all that The HIGH LORD OF BARBADOS and Techie has said I will defend Zoe, because he usually tells the truth, and he gives FACTS AND SPEAKS THE TRUTH AND STAYS ON POINT. LOL
His “rhetorical voltage: may be high as Dictionary puts it, but he RIGHTLY DIVIDES THE WORD OF TRUTH (which is of great importance to me, and he provides substance in his posts which is of high importance to me- I can actually learn something from his posts—one of the reasons I look at BU– which is more than I can say for most of the BS posted on BU, not by men in jest but in serious earnest ) and he is NOT a criminal as The HIGH LORD OF BARBADOS opines. ROTFLMAO!
And in any case we have in Barbados knighted a number of lawyers WHO HAVE THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREERS ROUTINELY DEFENDED REAL GENUINE BONE FIDE CRIMINALS! ROTFLMAO! So even if he were a criminal, defending him ought to win me an award in Bajan society according to precedent! LOL ROTFLMAO!
Now since Zoe has no criminal record, I sincerely think that he should sue The HIGH LORD OF BARBADOS in the law courts of Barbados forthwith! I wont ask for an apology if I were him, I would just sue ROTFLMAO!
Now buse ma as much as yuh like now.
These are juicy mangoes! ROTFLMAO!
Never in the history of Barbados has a Primne Minister of the country been denied entry into any country on planet earth.
But – in relation to Haiti – the US government told Thompson: “not in here. ‘Go home and clean-up the mess you are making in the economy.”
Haiti is place for serious people – not to take pictures. “GO HOME.”
EVER SO WELCOME WAIT FOR A CALL.
@GP
“and he is NOT a criminal as The HIGH LORD OF BARBADOS opines. ROTFLMAO!”
You really know how to insult a man. I never said the man was a criminal though. So in your attempt to humiliate me don’t commit other crimes, LOL!
DLP: A Tired Political Party in Decline
The promised change is not coming and as expected – the DLP is facing a growing barrage of opposition.
The media and now prominent intellectuals are adding their voices to the fray.
Ordinary Barbadians were tuned off within the first 100 days.
In response, Thompson now tells them to stop complaining and bellyaching.
The DLP incompetence is now clear to all.
It has disappointed and now infuriates even its die-hard members and supporter who also recognise that the events of the past two years will change Barbados irrevocably, unless this country is recued and put back on track soon – by a team that knows what to do.
Well the private jet was grounded and now the US Government has essentially told Thompson: “YOU CANNOT LAND – GO HOME.”
EVER SO WELCOME WAIT FOR A CALL.
It is why Thompson is so bitter and is taking out his frustration on ordinary Barbadians who are asking for their slice of the same fatted calf, CLICO, KIFFIN, COW and others are now gouging on.
@Zoe…………..The Palestinians in their zionist induced condition of destitution and poverty….i.e. their condition of hell-on-earth are still able to muster a little something to send to the Haitians. You see, Zoe, they do have something in common…they both suffer and survive while the boots of the oppressors are on their necks.
Right now, I’d be very worried about the body snatchers who are in the business of stealing human body parts.
Barbados:
Remember, this blog goes out to the world. And, that many participants here are relatively well educated and intelligent, influential people.
Some are even decision makers.
It is high time to rise above favourite riding horse issues or pet peeves, and focus on a major challenge facing a sister Caribbean island in her hour of desperate need.
If we cannot, we will simply confirm to the world that the Caribbean is not ready to seriously respond to serious matters in a serious way.
I am sure we can collectively do much better than the above.
So, let us try.
$0.02
D
@Dic: “Remember, this blog goes out to the world. And, that many participants here are relatively well educated and intelligent, influential people.
Some of us have never forgotten this fact.
This is so funny…
D has scolded someone as having no broughtupsy, slander etc etc.
Mighty harsh with his words when chastising others who are not in agreement.
Yet when his sidekick Zoe gets on in the most uncivil, unchristian-like behavior on this blog, he is simply asked to turn down the rhetorical voltage…well well.
I have now been compared to a dumb dog and all kinds of insults from Zoe but I guess it is good coming from a christian mouth and I should be trembling in fear…..NOT!!
As D has shown…..the world reads this blog, so even though they might read what the mockers and scoffers post, they also see the hypocrisy amongst the christians, as he has said…..
Remember, this blog goes out to the world. And, that many participants here are relatively well educated and intelligent, influential people.
John, on the earthquake occurences.
You do note that there was a quake just off Cayman today? Around the same depth as the Haiti quake, but 32 miles away.
Not nearly as strong as the Haiti quake, think it was a 5.9 but still, the interesting thing is the proximity to the Haiti quake and whether / how the two interrelate, particularly as what effect it may have on Cayman.
Remember, Cayman is basically on sea level.
I don’t want to ‘put my mouth on it’, but I fear we have not seen the last of strong tremors in the Caribbean this year. The area seems to have woken up.
By 32 miles away, I mean from the nearest Cayman town.
@All…
Please let us not forget that Japan had a major seismic event only a few years ago.
Some died.
Japan run Nuclear reactors. These reactors (nothing really much more that engineering) survived because they were designed to survive.
Please draw conclusions.
On Jan 17, 2010 at 2:44 a.m.
Dictionary wrote:
“There. BTW, is a definite “pact with the devils” associated with Haiti and with its current problems: Duvalierism, which used Vodun beliefs to set up a police state…”
With reference to the Hilary Beckles’ essay, I posted on Jan 17, 2010 at 2:55 p.m.:
“Technician
I hope your buddy Dictionary reads Hilary Beckles’ essay and stop this “pact with devils” nonsense.”
Dictionary then claims in a post on Jan 19, 2010 at 5:36 a.m that I am slandering him. He goes on to write about his corrective remarks re. Pat Robertson. I never mentioned Pat Robertson.
While I do not discount the destructive or corrosive impact of the Duvaliers on Haitian life, I think that one cannot dismiss the history of imperialist interference in Haiti that preceded Duvalier. It is my suggestion that such interference actually opened the way for Duvalier as he connected with the much maligned ordinary Haitians quite in contrast to former rulers of Haiti.
I also find it laughable that I should be criticized for “hiding” behind the veil of “anonymous” when most posters on this blog are in fact anonymous. Should anyone actually refer to Dictionary’s legal name he goes ballistic.
These well-educated, intelligent, influential decision makers…..reminds me of those FOUR-LEGGED MEMBERS OF THE BARNYARD STOCK who dip that bible in pig shit and then prance around with their arses stuck in the air away from their own stench.
Again, the twisters and distortionists of historic FACTS re Israel and the Palestinians.
Iy IS a FACT, that immediately after the declared statehood of Israel in 1948, IT WAS the Arab brothers of the Palestinians who TOLD them, GET OUT of Israel, so WE CAN annihilate them quickly.
Failing to achieve this NASTY objective, they, the Arabs then KEPT the Palestinians in refugee camps, as a Political tool, from THEN, up until today, STILL waiting to DESTROY Israel….WHICH THEY CANNOT DO…”
So, the *MYTH* was created, “The people (Palestinians) are in great need of a *myth* to fill their consciousness and imigination.” (Musa Alami, 1948).
The late King Hussein of Jordan, correctly asserted this fact, when he said:
“Since 1948 Arab leaders have approached the Palestinian problem in an IRRESPONSIBLE manner…They have USED the Palestinian people for SELFISH political purposes.This is rediculous and, I could say, even CRIMINAL.” (King Hussein of Jordan, 1960) emphasis added.
For over 60 years, after Israel went home for the first time in 2000 years, the Arabs have RELENTLESSLY used *Turnspeak* a cynical inverting of and distorting of FACTS, which then makes the victim (ISRAEL) appear as the culprit.
And this constantly repeated TURNSPEAK, so cunningly used by Arafat, et al, “…end occupation…end Israeli aggression…” this REPEATED LIE, was heard so often over the western media, that this vicious LIE, was accepted by so many as the truth.
BUT, the LORD has an unconditional Covenant with the Jews, the Abrahamic Covenant, that’s WHY, every attempt since 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, to DESTROY Israel, *FAILED* CAN’T WORK, the greatest insult to Islam, but LIES never win over TRUTH! Never WILL!
Oh Lordee, more pig-shit!
Haiti, I AM truly sorry!
HAITI!HAITI!HAITI!
Israeli’s Save Lives with Field Hospital.
“A Haitian mother named her son ‘Israel’ after Israeli medics delivered her baby boy”
“Israelis also rescued a six year old girl from the rubble, and Jewish groups continued the efforts to provide relief to the people of Haiti.” (The Israel Project, a non-profit organization, not related to any government or government agency).
Techie ma boy
I wont myself call you a dumb dog OK
But you realize that my buddy Zoe might very well be quoting from its either Isaiah or Jeremiah when he uses the term “dumb dog.” You can say he has a Biblical warrant? Wuh you say to that buddy? You dont think that he getting TECHNICAL pun you TECHNICIAN? LOL ROTFLMAO All hell will bruk loose now LOL.
Hopi
Behave ya self girl
The man telling the truth. LOL
Here are some links to support Israel’s response to the cry from Haiti for help.
Israelis Offer Haiti Functioning Hospital in Time of Crisis
Royalty-Free Photo Gallery: Israeli Aid to Haiti
To see videos of Israeli Rescue Efforts in Haiti
Video Coverage: "Haiti: Mission of Hope
Watch this Video Clip from BBC News of Israeli Rescue Teams in Haiti: ‘Haiti Earthquake: Haitians Desperate for Supplies
Israeli team to halt Haiti search efforts Monday
Several more links which support Israeli involvement in Haiti.
Halsall,
Not sure of your point? If it was that the nuclear reactors survived, therefore anything can be designed to, due to engineering, there are two relevant thoughts.
Firstly, the money pumped into these reactors design, to ‘safeguard’ their cargo, is huge.
One cannot compare that engineering level to residential buildings.
Yes, engineering is engineering but to a certain extent the safeguard will be relative to money spent.
Secondly, even those nuclear reactors are still open to a large enough event, there is no absolute.