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Submitted by Yardbroom
Image-NewBlackMan Blog

“Racial profiling is the inclusion ofย  racial or ethnic characteristics in determining whether a person is considered likely to commit a particular type of crime or an illegal act or to behave in a “predictable” manner”Wikipedia

The recent landing of an American commercial airliner at Detroit Airport in America and the subsequent arrest of a Muslim man, a 23 year old Nigerian national, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and an “allegation” made that he had explosives sewn into his underpants, has caused governments on both sides of the Atlantic and farther afield, to re-examine airport security arrangements.

Governments in Europe and America are at the vanguard in considering full-body scanners which display an image of traveller’s naked form on a screen for airport staff to scrutinise.ย  Apart from the indignity, embarrassment, religious and cultural issues involved the question of human rights have yet to be addressed.

Reports indicate that Amsterdam, Schipol airport is to install 17 scanners, the European Commission have not as yet given their approval.ย  With some machines having been tested at Heathrow and Manchester airports and with Prime Minister Gordon Brown not registering any disapproval; BAA let it be known that they will install the machines as quickly as possible in England.

It has been said that because of the time required to process passengers through airport security systems, some measure of profiling will have to be done for an effective system to operate.ย  With the word “profiling” being used by some, although not by Governments at the moment – Shama Chakrabarti director of Civil Liberties UK stated: “Whether on the street or at the terminal suspicious behaviour is a sensible basis for search by policing professionals: race or religion is not.”

An argument can be made that there is no speculation of the profile of the persons committing certain acts, they have been apprehended and have readily confessed, so on clear proven evidence there is no doubt.

The question can be posed would it be fair to a specific religious, ethnic or racial group to be subjected to such intrusive full-body screening on the basis that they fit the profile, would they have reasonable grounds to be aggrieved.ย  Some would say that that discomfort has to be weighed against the protection of a wider public.

Most of us are travellers and use aircraft but even if we are not, could it be reasonable say to profile a certain religious or ethnic group in Barbados because of a belief that they are more likely than others outside the profile, to engage in drug taking or other unlawful activities?ย  Profiling has not got to be only about full-body scanners at airports.

When Governments make important decisions they must consider that minorities can become permanently disadvantaged if those decisions are arbitrarily taken in haste; under the guise of being for the greater public good.ย  Does that mean decisions should never be taken that impact on the rights of minority groups?ย ย  No it does not.

What it does mean is that a measured approach is necessary and it should be evident to any “reasonable” person, that such has been taken.

When that has been achieved there is less latitude to accommodate and fewer fountains from which to flow; those who unmercifully seek to destroy the way of life we enjoy; and show no evidence of being able to replace it with something better.


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110 responses to “Are There "Ever" Circumstances When Racial Or Religious Profiling Can Be Justified?”


  1. @Yardbroom…….I wish you a pleasant and an enlightening new year.

    Now had we been profiling from the get-go the world probably won’t be in the mess that its in today. Certain people would not have been allowed to steal other peoples oil, wealth nor land and definitely not their PEOPLE.

    But it is what it is and here we are today with the real terrorist profiling the innocent or even those with a worthy cause.

    There’s plenty of money to be made on these full body scanners and this is just another form of slavery where we have to surrender our very ‘personal’ rights and freedom to this beast in
    order to travel.

    Its just another form of ‘full-spectrum dominance!’

    This story about this young man Abdulmatallab is a farce.

    But like they say tyranny is always better organized than freedom!


  2. I’d rather offend a thousand prudes than lose a single innocent life. If these people want to participate in the western world they have to both conform and speak out forcefully against their compatriots who pervert their religion for tyrannical goals.


  3. I have read in another report that Amsterdam’s Schipol airport had 15 full body scanners already in place before the Christmas day incident,but had been advised by the United States not to used them for reasons of privacy Nigeria was given four full body scanners by the United States , but they are/were only used randomly.If full body scanners were in use regularly at both airports, chances are that the terrorist would have been apprehended before his final flight to the USA.
    America and the Netherlands must take a lot of the blame more so than Nigeria,whose random checks amounted to far more that that of Holland.


  4. Wonder what President Obama means by the phrase “connect the dots”:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_airline_security

    Sounds like some sort of profiling.


  5. Malcolm X once said”By any means necessary”. That line has been used to complete acts of reason and acts of demolition.Committment to a cause can be erroneous but cannot be vitoed if a person or group of persons are given the support which they need to carry out their intentions.
    The world must take seriously any attempts at holding countries hostage . The Nigerian who made his’debute’into the arena of international attention;must be taken seriously-even if thought to be a farce. The twin towers was a sad affair which will never be forgotten.The Cubana explosion will be forever etched in the history of Barbados. The lists goes on. Beefing up of security will be uncomfortable but sad to say this is the price we must pay.Who is to say that the electronic scanners are not already at work?At the end of the day wake up calls are un-ending so we must be ever vigilant.Make an example of all who use their religious or racial circumstances for ill.Execyte them! Bring them to judgement by any means necessary!!!!!Good topic Yardbroom!


  6. It is not possible to profile on religion.
    No ones religion is on their passport.
    However age and sex should be profiled
    Terrorists are almost always young men.


  7. @ Raymond….

    ….”The Cubana explosion will be forever etched in the history of Barbados.”

    Nice post except for this part!
    Luis Posada Carriles is a whole different story.


  8. Technician
    I stand corrected and advised.Blessings!


  9. Let’s face it folks – for the last 9 years of the last decade, our civil liberties have been under house arrest…

    In this next decade, we will see a full, frontal assault on our most cherished freedoms which is leading to only one place… THE MARK*….

    Our government already has the power to SHUT us down “virtually” in every sense of the word….

    Here’s one such example:-

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

    Some of the most dangerous breaches and violations of our civil and human liberties include:-

    * Hubris
    * The Military Commissions Act of 2006
    * Extraordinary Rendition
    * Government Snooping
    * The State-Secrets Doctrine
    * Guantanamo Bay
    * Attempt to Get Death Penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui
    * Compulsory ID
    * Mandatory IRIS & Finger-print technology applications
    * Now FULL BODY SCAN
    * Soon to be mandated – RFID chips implant for FELONS and prisoners as a means of tagging..

    This short list is worthy of a Hollywood blockbuster movie, with academy award performances by our political leaders who wave this big stick over our heads reminding us that people out there want to get us so we must curtail freedoms and liberties in order to keep us SAFE*…

    What a punch bowl of CROQ*…


  10. Surveillance Society monitoring everyday life: the walls have ears and the hills have eyes, but who’s got the brain?
    All Along The Watchtower (*)
    (*)=Jimi Hendrix
    Such surveillance also reinforces divisions by sorting people into social categories. The issues spill over narrow policy and legal boundaries to generate responses at several levels including local consumer groups, internet activism, and international social movements.


  11. If we consider the current tensions between East and West and the different religions which factor, isnโ€™t inevitable that profiling would occur on the Western side?


  12. Not My Job (*)
    (*)=Mac Dre

    Do a lot of weed, love my supplier
    Man I’m bigger than life, I do it Magnum
    And bout these broke b——, I’m through with havin’ em’
    Dre bogard, he shove and he push
    And start war for nothin’ G.W. Bush
    We be lovin’ the cush, but only in the backwood
    It ain’t a backwood, it ain’t all that good
    I’m from the streets, where most need heat
    But I slice a n—- up like some roast beef meat

    Chorus:

    I can bust you a rap, but anything else, not my job
    I peel ya cap back, but anything else, not my job
    I get ya for racks, but anything else, not my job
    I make you a slap, but anything else, not my job

    [Verse 2]
    B—- gone ask me to come with her to grocery shop
    I told her straight up like this, “no siree bob!”
    That’s not my job, I don’t do that
    I’m a pimp slash rapper, I thought you knew that


  13. @Technician…………Very glad that you brought up Luis Posada….one of the biggest terrorist who was given refuge by Amerikka.

    Never ceases to amaze how people could justify this bullshale that they are forcing upon us.

    AND

    @Raymond…..’By any Means Necessary’… are you really serious to associate such ‘sacred words’ with this DAMABLE HERESY that’s being forced upon us? Shabazz must be turning in his grave right now.

    The biggest terrorists today are governments. Al Qaeda my arse!

    Look at the recent incident at the New Jersey terminal which was closed down for about six hours because some man had apparently breached security, yet with all the cameras they have rolling everywhere, the cameras in that particular area were turned off. Who are these LIARS kidding? That man has to be an ‘agent’ for someone who wants to terrorize us.

    Yet another incident with an Irish resident on whom explosives were placed by Slovak authorities.

    What a bunch of filthy, corrupt mortals calling themselves governments, and yet the people continue to give them all their power.

    ‘If we are willing to sacrifice liberty for this bogus security we deserve neither liberty nor security.’


  14. First they blow up the twin towers and had ‘everyone’ going crazy, then they gave you a shoe-bomber and now ‘everyone’ has to take off their shoes and now they come with a ‘brief’ bomber so they can now get in your underwear. How much more humiliating can it get?

    This is a classic case of the Hegelian Dialectic…where ‘they’ create the problem, you get scared and react just the way they want you to respond and then you beg them for a solution, which they already had waiting in the wings.

    This is all a scam! Its a farce!.


  15. @Hopi: “This is all a scam! Its a farce!.

    You are correct.

    What is acknowledged by those who think deeply about such things is that it is almost impossible to stop a determined killer from achieving their goal if they are willing to trade their own life during the act.

    “Full Body Scans” (or “full pat downs”) will not prevent someone who actually knew what they were doing.

    A “Full Body XRay”, CAT scan or MRI would be required.

    This is not likely to be economically viable any time soon…

    So then one might reasonably ask: “Why go through all the extra security if it won’t actually prevent a determined attacker?”

    Good question…

    Let me please suggest a (admittedly naive) solution… Perhaps it is time we humans create an environment for all where hatred doesn’t manifest as often as it currently does.

    Naive, I know. But it is, IMHO, the only truly viable solution space….


  16. I course its not viable you are talking about Utopia not this planet.


  17. @ru4real: “I [sic] course its not viable you are talking about Utopia not this planet.

    Are you arguing that we humans cannot do better than we are currently?


  18. @Chris H………. Yes we need to get rid of HATRED, but before we sweep it under the rug we need to examine IT and then examine The Hate that This Hatred Produced?

    Quite often I’ve been accused of hating paleface, and its quite easy to accuse me of such without examination. But nothing could be more further from the truth. I do not hate whitey. My body and mind cannot accommodate hatred. That’s too much of a load and too much negative energy to carry around.

    BUT on the other hand I will always call out these evil deeds that are perpetrated by whitey when I see them, unlike many others who’d rather bury their heads in the sand.

    Right now who is in ‘control’ of this earthly realm? Some of the illest deeds carried out were against whom and by who? Why are Arabs and Muslims fighting back? How did your kind get to be in a position of dominance in this world today? And was this position of dominance honestly earned?

    Lets examine the reality that produced this HATE!


  19. @Hopi…

    I truly appreciate and accept your immediate above.

    However…

    Please note that not all “whiteys” harmed others. Not the blacks, the browns, the yellows or the reds (or even the blues or greens)…

    Thus, I personally conclude that it is irrational to hold a grudge against anyone based on their various colours (skin, hair, eye, blood, et al).

    I will, however, support reasoned argument against any human (or group(s) of same) if their arguments supports a position against any other human.

    A *very* different thing, IMHO.

    We humans have a lot of baggage. We need to work through this, to come to some form of common ground.

    We *humans* share a common planet; a commons.

    IMHO, we will as a species will only survive if we *all* learn how to equally and fairly share the natural resources we have *all* been bequeathed.

    For what that’s worth….


  20. @Chris H……….I agree that not all whiteys harmed other, but for the most part most whiteys get to benefit from the ‘ill’ deeds of the others [whitey], and then we have the issue of skin colour on which the illusion of superiority is based and which does provide some degree of social comforts for whitey & lightey as well. So how do we combat such?


  21. The only way to defeat terrorism is to kill the terrorists (e.g. sri lanka after 25 years civil war)… most Road Block‘s (*) and security checks knock off at home time
    (*)=Sammy Dread

    most profiling is just ignorant sterotyping
    eg black or
    long hair or
    look like a palestinian colour


  22. @Hopi: “…but for the most part most whiteys get to benefit from the โ€˜illโ€™ deeds of the others [whitey]

    Could it not be argued, Hopi, that almost everyone has benefited from the economic growth of these (truly) ill deeds?

    I hope I have enough collateral to say and ask this… Would Blacks have found themselves in the Caribbean or North and South America if a horrible trade was not carried out several hundred years ago?

    @Hopi: “So how do we combat such?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but is the most powerful man in the world right now not Black?

    @Hopi…

    My personal experience is that most don’t realize their colours until it is pointed out to them.

    They are all doing extremely well.

    This is exactly as it should be….


  23. @Chris H………On a materialistic level, many have benefited [not most] from these ill deeds. And that still does not justify such deeds.

    Are you saying that being in N.America and the C’bean is a good thing?

    Blacks were in N.America before this horrible trade. And you gotta remember that before whitey invaded and decimated Africa, there were already rich thriving societies.

    And isn’t the destitute condition in Africa due in great part to the ‘ill’ deeds of whitey which has not only stunted the physical well-being, but also the mental well being of the Africans today?

    No, I do not agree that the most powerful man in the world now is Black. He is not as powerful as some would wish for us to believe. He takes orders….e.g. the Federal Reserve is more powerful than he is.

    To say that most are doing extremely well is relative to your interpretation. Isn’t it?

    While I was growing up in Barbados amongst a predominantly Black pop, the colour of the skin was not a major issue, it was only when you saw a tourist [whitey] that you realized a difference and then you get to live among them and its a whole different ball game.


  24. @Hopi: “No, I do not agree that the most powerful man in the world now is Black. He is not as powerful as some would wish for us to believe. He takes ordersโ€ฆ.e.g. the Federal Reserve is more powerful than he is.

    Not having met the Man, I cannot say for sure.

    But I have reason to believe the Man is more powerful than you give him credit for….


  25. Chris H………..I didn’t say that he was not powerful, its just the extent of that power. His power is more symbolic than anything else. Yea, he gets to use the pen which is by far mightier than the sword and with that pen should come responsibility to the people. That I am yet to see. He works for others [not the people]who are more powerful than him.


  26. @Hopi: “His power is more symbolic than anything else.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong…

    But did He not just recently pull off the passing of a health care bill which could not be accomplished by many who tried to do the same before him?

    Empirically, the Man seems pretty powerful to me.

    Let me please repeat myself for those just joining this thread…

    The Man is Black.


  27. Black, blue, pink, or polka dot, makes no difference.

    Obama was anointed on the “missing weekend” of the bogus presidential campaign, and then was made quite aware of his function.

    Dump the rhetoric as soon as we allow you to be elected.
    Follow the path prepared, or bye-bye.

    Assimilated or assassinated.

    The choice was his, and he opted for “No Change” as his first few months have proved.

    Just another patsy to the real powers.


  28. Profiling will NOT solve the issue of security threat.

    As C.Halsall noted above, the issue is far deeper.

    On a strictly practical level, as follows.

    Anyone can be a potential ‘threat’.

    Contrary to one commenter above, a woman can just as easily be a ‘threat’, yet that commentor has just made a potentially ‘fatal’ mistake, if they were the airport security, by ignoring the woman and choosing a young man to scan instead.

    An older Arab professor? How about an American convert to Islam extremism, who wears no ‘badges’ per se?

    How about, say a South American ‘sympathiser’? Who works in collusion with third parties?

    Impossible!

    Secondly, fairly nonsensical, is the singular raising of security assessments at airports.

    How about seaports, or train stations? Absolutely no checks at train stations.

    And train stations carry a much higher level of traffic.

    A plane only carries roughly three hundred. Other potential targets carry much more and are more of a daily threat.

    As noted, impossible.

    Now, being Devil’s Advocate, from an overall philosophical viewpoint, you also have another problem.

    Who is the enemy?

    C.Halsall’s point above also addresses this.

    In an issue this broad, one must address the source of the conflict, rather than the symptoms.

    For, as long as the underlying cause exists, there will surely be symptoms.

    Now, if we argue that the cause is unfairness and power play, resulting in retaliation, then that must be addressed, by ensuring that perceived aggressiveness, must be corrected, even if only a perception.

    However, if we argue that the issue is one of underlying religion or belief, then how will that be addressed?

    Possibly, one may argue that the issue is one of extremism, thus it applies only to a few of the ‘relevant’ individuals of any particular culture.

    However if so, then why exactly will ‘profiling’ based on race, religion or culture be effective, unless one is damning the whole?

    By relying on profiling to assess potential risks, surely one is in effect ‘damning’ the whole and stating that the issue really, at the base level, one of ‘them’ and ‘us’?

    If so, such as assertion points to a bleak outcome indeed, only one really.

    Not a simple issue, complex indeed, but the outcome is fairly simple to assess.

    No?


  29. @Anonymous…

    Spoken like a true Republican Anonymous Coward….


  30. By the way, my above post, among other reasons, is EXACTLY why Barbados needs to urgently place its agriculture and fishing industries on its priority list.

    IF we survive what will soon happen, fallout in environmental, social and financial terms, we MUST have some productive capacity to survive.


  31. By the way, one question on this ‘security issue’ is yet unanswered.

    We here in Barbados have to go through hoops to get a Barbados passport, then more hoops to get a US Visa.

    Then we have to present both at the airport to be checked.

    But, this guy just basically walked onto the American Airlines in another part of the ‘developed world’, with neither?

    Really?

    If there were collusion, how exactly will one stop collusion to avoid the same security checks?


  32. Wasn’t it reported his ticket was paid for in cash?


  33. Yes, indeed. This situation is so peculiar that, as we noted before, has ‘writing’ all over it.

    By the way, note Putin’s statement recently that Russia must begin making weapons of offense again.

    From Times Online ‘The Russian Prime Minister, reasserting himself as the countryโ€™s real ruler, said that Moscow should press ahead with a new generation of weapons to stop the Americans doing โ€œwhatever they wantโ€.

    โ€œTo preserve the balance we must develop offensive weapons systems, not missile defence systems as the United States is doing,โ€ he said during a visit to the naval port of Vladivostok on the Pacific coast.’

    Things get curiouser and curiouser…..


  34. One last point. That statement by Putin.

    On the one hand, it could be taken as a matter of fact, statement of intent.

    But, knowing that it would be reported, surely one would have known that it could be interpreted as a veiled threat?

    Certainly if reported correctly (and this is the Times, not the Nation), it is not subtle and certainly direct.

    Thus, my interpretation is that while it exhibits strategic intent, it is a deliberate threat.

    If this is right, why would the Russian PM see it fit, necessary or whatever, to issue such a threat at this time???


  35. @Crusoe: “If this is right, why would the Russian PM see it fit, necessary or whatever, to issue such a threat at this time???

    I trust you recognize this is a game; played by Big Boys with Big Toys…

    The only way to defeat a “Missile Defence Shield” is to have more Missiles than the Shield can handle…

    Now the question is, does the West worry more about an attack from Russia than they do about rouges?

    A follow up question: how does the West bring Russia under the umbrella of the shield? (The answer is more difficult than it might at first appear…)


  36. On first question, yes because Russia is an identifiable ‘ossosition’, whereas rogues are not.

    One cannot easily defend what one does not expect.

    Second question, would be for them both the have the same enemy, who has missiles i.e. the same ‘rogues’, now making US and Russia brothers-in-arms.

    However, I do not think that is the end- game here.

    I think this is powerplay on the Middle East, Russia recognises that the US is making both general and specific moves that it is ‘concerned’ about and is not having it.

    Due to past and recent rhetoric, it ‘could’ seem that Iran would be a possible next focal point of potential action, thus Russia could be very concerned about the imbalance of ‘power’ etc.

    However, while any military strategy cannot be ruled out, due to the players, I cannot see any action on Iran as being viable, unless one is fully willing to commit to an all-out Middle East war, which I am convinced would be the outcome, even if unintended.

    In addition, any such action would be a further drain on US resources, that it simply could not sustain.

    But, that said, there are those who would see such in their interests.

    The ‘rogues’ as you put it, are not the only ones who would have an agenda for destabilisation of the status quo.


  37. identifiable โ€˜opposition’.


  38. There is a lot of money to be made from body scanners people..its a scam to fill you body with high levels of radiation and impose on your privacy..basically breaking the human spirit..just another ploy to gain full control of people..but unfortunately..stupid people don’t wake up in time to do anything.


  39. This whole racial profiling ting is stupid. Profiling is NEVER justified, and if anythin’, the events of this past christmas demonstrate that it don’t work. When you profile people based on race, the criminals from DIFFERENT races get through! The only reason they aint catch this Nigerian man earlier was because they was lookin for an Arab and he aint fit the description.

    Criminals, terrorists and bad people in general come in all colours and shapes. The man who assassinated the Israeli prime minister back in the 90’s was a jew, not an arab. The man who bomb the olympics in 96 was a white man. The shoe bomber was half english half jamaican. They even found an AMERICAN taliban so you can’t just say that we need to profile anybody to stop terrorism.


  40. Crusoe // January 6, 2010 at 7:54 PM

    Profiling will NOT solve the issue of security threat.

    As C.Halsall noted above, the issue is far deeper.

    On a strictly practical level, as follows.

    Anyone can be a potential โ€˜threatโ€™.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    All of this is true.

    However, in the absence of a perfect world the more hoops an extremist has to jump through and hurdles to clear before he/she can commit his/her act of extremism the better he/she has to be trained and indoctrinated.

    …. and that training and indoctrination requires effort and money.

    … and the expenditure of effort and money leave a trail

    …. which can be followed.

    Also …

    The more sophisticated the barriers to get through the more knowledge is required to get through them …

    …. and with knowledge comes conceit, and views on the importance of one’s life to the cause.

    Would you expect a cause’s leaders or their trusted lieutanants to commit the acts of extremism required of their followers which end their lives?

    I doubt.

    Cannon fodder is required, but the cannon fodder needs to be trained and indoctrinated …..

    …. and in all probability can be profiled pretty accurately.

    So, in the absence of a perfect world the best that can be done is to increase the heights of the hurdles ….

    …. and hope the intelligence community can pick up the trail, connect the dots in time to act, and do so

    …. and that the profiles chosen to check are the right ones.

    We do not have to travel, it is a privelege to most …

    ……. the percentage of the World’s population who fly is probably pretty small.

    With privelege come obligation.

    Few fly out of necessity, but I admit, some do.


  41. @Chris H……..regarding that health’care’ bill, this is just another stimulus package for the Insurance companies…People like me who don’t buy into the health care industry’s chicken little camp, would be forced to purchase health insurance.

    I haven’t read that bill, but I do understand that somewhere in there RFID chips will be mandated.

    Who is really serving?


  42. @John: “@Crusoe: “Profiling will NOT solve the issue of security threat.

    @John: “All of this is true.

    Thank you for that. It is critical.

    @John: “However, in the absence of a perfect world the more hoops an extremist has to jump through and hurdles to clear before he/she can commit his/her act of extremism the better he/she has to be trained and indoctrinated.

    Or, perhaps simply, the better they need to be equipped.

    Let us please acknowledge the elephant in the room — it is relatively easy to bring down a plane.

    (As an aside, it is *much* harder to sink a ship or derail a train.)

    @John: “…and the expenditure of effort and money leave a trail which can be followed.

    Not always.

    @John: “Cannon fodder is required, but the cannon fodder needs to be trained and indoctrinated…

    @John: “โ€ฆ. and in all probability can be profiled pretty accurately.

    Incorrect.

    It is folly to assume your enemy is a fool.

    Thus, it must be assumed that the enemy is smart; is aware of the situation and will adapt to same.

    Read: the enemy will choose cannon fodder who are mapped outside of the current profiling parameters.

    @John: “โ€ฆ. and hope the intelligence community can pick up the trail, connect the dots in time to act, and do so

    @John: “โ€ฆ. and that the profiles chosen to check are the right ones.

    But what if they don’t?

    What happens then? (It’s a rhetorical question.)

    @John: “We do not have to travel, it is a privelege to most โ€ฆ

    But many depend upon others travelling.

    Think about, for example, Barbados, which depends upon Tourism.

    @John: “With privelege come obligation.

    But… Until and unless *everyone* who travels is subjected to an extreme level of invasive review before boarding a plane, travellers will not be 100% safe.

    Exactly as planned… It creates friction to commerce, you see…

    May I please once again argue that the only possible viable solution is to have less hatred?

    IMHO, no other solution space actually works.


  43. @Hopi: “I havenโ€™t read that bill, but I do understand that somewhere in there RFID chips will be mandated.

    Might you support your above with some evidence?

    I have to say Hopi, I personally find it very interesting to what lengths you’re going to take away from the Man.

    Is this an example of the proverbial Crab Bucket?


  44. Chris

    But many depend upon others travelling.

    Think about, for example, Barbados, which depends upon Tourism

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    …. 100% True

    …… but what is also 100% true is that others don’t really have to travel …..

    …. but that is also a known …..

    …. Tourism is often described as being fickle for this reason.

    … and yes, getting rid of hatred would solve the mess …..

    …. in fact a whole lot of messes

    ….. that was one of the many messages that was evident on the blog on the Second Coming of Christ.


  45. @John: “โ€ฆ and yes, getting rid of hatred would solve the mess โ€ฆ.. โ€ฆ.. that was one of the many messages that was evident on the blog on the Second Coming of Christ.

    But with respect John et al…

    What I have taken away from debating with the “BU Trinity” is that the vocal Christians on BU hold the position that they are unquestionably correct. And that those who hold differing positions must be wrong.

    It has even been suggested by some in the “BU Trinity” that those who dare to ask questions are evil, or are even guided by the “Dark Lord” for daring to ask questions.

    I lie?

    So I then I ask this very simple question: How do we come to terms amongst us all with such anger and distrust between us all?

    A sincere question.

    I hope it will be considered sincerely by all….


  46. “Folks never understand the folks they hate.”

    Hate blinds us to the possibility that we could be wrong and thus we see our actions as pure and noble.
    Will we ever have a world without hate? I fear not, but that does not mean we should not strive for it.

    In the interim we must address the “reality” we have and that means thwarting those who seek to do us harm.


  47. @Yardbroom: “In the interim we must address the โ€œrealityโ€ we have and that means thwarting those who seek to do us harm.

    Just in case it isn’t clear to you, this is a non-trial problem.

    If you have a way of “thwarting those who seek to do us harm”, you could make a lot of money.

    If, on the other hand, you’re just talking….


  48. @Chris H……..No proverbial Crab Bucket mindset here. The man is not about the people, he’s about big business like his predecessors. his actions speak louder than his words.

    @Yard B………..Yes we can have a world without hate. We just have to get rid of the causes of hate. Right now hate is big business you can cash in on hate just like people have cashed in on lies. I see the government doing us more harm than any Abdulmutallabah. Why are the Arabs and Muslims and other freedom fighters fighting back? Its easy to pick and choose your enemy you know or align oneself against the ‘enemy’ that’s given to us by the media.

    The enemy is always closer than you think.


  49. Chris

    So I then I ask this very simple question: How do we come to terms amongst us all with such anger and distrust between us all?

    ++++++++++++++++++

    I’ll give it a day or so and watch for the simple answer to your simple question.


  50. @John: “Iโ€™ll give it a day or so and watch for the simple answer to your simple question.

    Are you not able to speak for yourself?

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